Atlantic Express

[Capt. J. Upgrade]

The BBC Jersey news was interupted with news that as of mid-january, Atlantic Express will be pulling out of the Jersey-Stansted-Jersey route. All passengers booked past this date will be receiving a full refund for their ticket. What will the new year hold for Atlantic Express and their Jersey based staff?? :confused:


Good luck to them all :ok:

[GBALU53]

What does the Jersey Airport Authorties make of this? Are they not trying to promote and get new routes or is there some thing else behind all this??

[J-Guy]

Yet again Jersey loses its Stansted connection. It is a disappointing development; I think there was considerable optimism about Atlantic Express’ success on the route, which makes the news a surprise.

So where does this leave Atlantic Express and, indeed, Jersey’s air-link to Stansted? The past doesn’t offer much cause for hope :confused:

[Jerbourg]

I thought the route was a success & that the frequency was going to be increased w/ef summer 2007 schedules, what went wrong?

[Trihandle]

Last flight leaves Jersey 0750 on the 16th of Jan.
may be the rumor about Atlantic Express being for sale was correct.

[GBALU53]

Sad to hear all this going on it take a long time to get a route up and running.

The early days of Flybe when they were Jersey European they had a daily connection with Stansted the that was dropped.

Air U.K. took it on with the Fokker 27 but after a number of months droped the route due to the aircraft was need up in Leeds to start a new route.

A couple of years later they are back with the ATR72 operating the route and building up to Three flights a days the KLM pull the plus on them so no more connection with Stansted until Aurigny starts a few years lates but has to pull of as the company is taken over by the states of Guernsey and they cannt operate a route out of a competion Island so bang goes the Jersey Stansted route again.

Atlantic Express start the route again and every thing is looking good with the three flights operating for the summer of 2007 so why has this all come to light??

The Stansted flights have not only good connections to LCC around Europe but have a good rail conection with the city>

[GBALU53]

I thought the route was a success & that the frequency was going to be increased w/ef summer 2007 schedules, what went wrong?

I believe it was becoming such a sucess that they had started to put on their ATR-72 (G-HERM) On the route! :hmm:

[haughtney1]

Stansted will always be a Loco airport...it is bloody miles from london, it costs around £20 to get from Liverpool St to STN on the train (more than most flights inc taxes costs)
Which is why LGW is a much better location for the Channel Island routes:ok:

[GBALU53]

Well haughtney1

It all depends on the supply and demand.

The Stansted location for one, the catchment area is large when you look at it, the lack of connections from that area you need to go to Coventry to the NNW and that is it other than going into London.

Flybe dropped there Norwich service but it is on for next summer, where do you go from Norwich other than Norwich.

You dont have to be going to London to be going to Stansted with over 150 connections to a number of Europen destinations and the odd one or two over the big pond Stansted does have some attraction.

Jersey has a large Polish community and Stansted is the airport they were using, a number of years ago they would use the Crossair direct Zurich and then on to Poland.

It takes a couple of years to build up a route and see how it is performing.

A route is only as good as the marketing and advertising behind to make it work as well as the flight times to offer a good all round service to Joe Public and the Business Person who might be travelling to London.

To quote it is a twenty pound rail ticket from Stansted to London is it not a similar price from Gatwick to London???

[haughtney1]

You dont have to be going to London to be going to Stansted with over 150 connections to a number of Europen destinations and the odd one or two over the big pond Stansted does have some attraction.

You are completely correct, except that only real "hub" staus at STN comes in the shape of EZY and RYR. LGW is more attractive to pax as you have long and short-haul connections through the US majors, charter carriers, EZY, RYR, MON, BA, EK, Qatar, VS, and so on and so on.
There is really a big difference...sure if you want to go lo-cost you can go to STN..if the demand exists, but it doesnt, for all the reasons I've highlighted, including the £20 train ticket..which if you are paying £12 inc taxes for a flight, makes poor value for money.

[HZ123]

It is about the same cost from LGW to central London. Ditto LHR to central LON. STN has nothing like the total agravation experience that LHR offers and I know having worked here fro 37 years.

[J-Guy]

There is an article in tonight’s JEP which explains that the suspension of Atlantic Express flights from Jersey is a result of the sale of the parent company to a business called Air Task who intends to lease out the aircraft. Originally the route was going to continue but plans have obviously changed.

It is a real shame for that the route has been cut so soon after beginning when the prospects for its success were looking good with extra frequencies and increased capacity.

[ICING AOA]

All ATR pilots in Jersey and Coventry are to be made redundant as the aircraft gradually trickle away on dry lease and sale.

Hopefully a new operator will take on the redundant staff and continue the route.


in spite of those bad news (Air Wales, now Air Atlantique, next one Air Contractors? ), the TRTO skyBlueAviation is already overbooked till next March for their ATR course :ooh:

[Jerbourg]

A couple of years later they are back with the ATR72 operating the route and building up to Three flights a days the KLM pull the plus on them so no more connection with Stansted until Aurigny starts a few years lates but has to pull of as the company is taken over by the states of Guernsey and they cannt operate a route out of a competion Island

>


The reason Aurigny pulled the plug on the STN route was that they were not making any money on it. Not as you believe that the "competing" Island Government owned it! What a load of twaddle that is. Difficult as it is to believe for alot of people airline are businesses just like your hight street stores & need customers to survive. They do not operate just because 5/6 people a day might want to go to STN or wherever. Wake up & smell the coffee!

[GBALU53]

Believe it or not but I understand the problems between the Islands.

The fact of the matter about Aurigny and the Stansted route is true, not only that, does the letters M.H and his track record spell out a lot of bad vibes in the aviation world to name a couple of airlines that these iniatials were connected with and must tell a story or two?.

Gill Air.

Air Eccose.

Just to name a couple there may well be others but they do not sping to mind yet.

Was this person trying to stand down some while ago but before he could do this states would not except it untill the big mess was sorted out??

Is there light at the end of his tunnel yet or is there a long way still to go.

Aviation in the Channel Islands as you must know is a cruel one one falls down and another comes up.

The New Year is only days away if only the clock could be turned back but we must look forward to a brighter future.

[MAJAX]

If only Atlantic had established themselves with more than just 1 route, perhaps they would have seemed a better ongoing concern. terrible shame for those staff affected.

But perhaps for Jersey to Stansted the future is bright, the future maybe Blue.:ok:

[GCIJ32]

does anyone know of a company that would be keen on taking on a pilot with half an atr type rating?

I think the future is definately blue!

Maybe a certain company would be willing to use the ATR's on some new routes out of the Islands maybe Southampton etc... could the future be blue? We shall see come the new year!!

[en830]

Sad to see Atlantic Express go, the Stanstead route offered a lot of options and a different entrance to London and the South East, the times were good as well.

Any how, a local operator uses Jetstream’s to the Isle of Man, why not Stanstead ? Blue certainly is a good colour.

[GBALU53]

With the fourth Jetstream shortly to appear on the sceen they need to get more routes.

At the moment with three in the fleet there is only just enought flying for two aircraft with the third being for back up.

With some ammendments to the schedules for 2007 this might fit in well , with at least two rotations to Stansted or might even be three.

My heart goes out at this time of year with friends whoe are made redundent only days before xmas I have been there so I do not what its like.

As the saying goes one door closes and another opens lets hope it is a very big BLUE DOOR.

[GCIJ32]

GBALU53

Come early next year a few big Blue doors may be opened, if rumours are correct we could see some big exciting things happening in the islands!

Im sure Stansted could easily be sustained, definitely two to three times a day in a Jetstream!

[Capt. J. Upgrade]

There is an article in tonight’s JEP which explains that the suspension of Atlantic Express flights from Jersey is a result of the sale of the parent company to a business called Air Task who intends to lease out the aircraft. Originally the route was going to continue but plans have obviously changed.

It is a real shame for that the route has been cut so soon after beginning when the prospects for its success were looking good with extra frequencies and increased capacity.

Spot on. Glad to see someone else with their finger on the pulse!! :ok:

[Capt. J. Upgrade]

GBALU53

Come early next year a few big Blue doors may be opened, if rumours are correct we could see some big exciting things happening in the islands!

Im sure Stansted could easily be sustained, definitely two to three times a day in a Jetstream!

You're quite right!! I have strong knowledge that the load factors are sufficient enough until May (ish) that loads would be more then suitable to fill a J32 on the route. But could BCI put on the quality service that was provided by AEX? :confused:

[MAJAX]

Capt. J. Upgrade


BCI have the Quality of Service and the J32 is adequate in terms of comfort (been to IOM with them many times). But they are business aircraft destined for Business routes. Not really suitable for Holiday makers Luggage that such a leisure route demands, with 20kgs allowance each, lucky to squeeze 16 on it!

If the rumours are true of bigger aircraft however, then they have potential! but their biggest rival is Aurigny and they dominate Guernsey & fly to stansted - so is Jersey Stansted of much interest?

I am starting to think no one will take on the route. :uhoh:

[GCIJ32]

MAJAX

I don't know! I'm sure if (more likely when) a fourth Jetstream comes online that taking up the Stansted route would be a rather good idea. A 2-3xdaily service, 3x maybe good as they will probably have to restrict bookings to probably 16/17 to stay with weight limits and will offer a decent level choice of flight times. Wouldn't be too bad sit in the lounge down at Gate 7 and then hop on a resonably short flight up to STN would probably be quite popular!!

I doubt Aurigny would prove popular again, you'd be constantly flying on Titan or Flightline chartered aircraft which the GCI taxpayer was paying for!!

[LGS6753]

No-one in their right mind would operate Jer-Stansted in competition with a daily TOM to Luton.

[ICING AOA]

how much is the JER-STN in ATR 42 ?...
the GCI-STN with an ATR 72 is still pretty much expensive !

So the STN operated with a J32 ?...How much would Blue Islands sell it ? :ouch:
Those passengers would have enough money to do a direct flight in a Falcon 900X from GCI or JER to wherever they want !! :}

[GBALU53]

Well ICING AOA

It looks like you are in a dream world, do you know how much an hour for a Falcon 900 it is more than pocket money per hour.

The flight time from Jersey or Guernsey to Zurich in a Falcon 900 is about one hour and ten minutes the landing fee and handling fee at a guess would be near if not more than four figures sterling.

Interesting to know where you would base things on not every one in the Islands are rich and they need to connect to a low cost carrier to see Europe

[Capt. J. Upgrade]

how much is the JER-STN in ATR 42 ?...
the GCI-STN with an ATR 72 is still pretty much expensive !

So the STN operated with a J32 ?...How much would Blue Islands sell it ? :ouch:
Those passengers would have enough money to do a direct flight in a Falcon 900X from GCI or JER to wherever they want !! :}

I think you will find the cost of any aircraft operating any route is usually up to the airline. In this case, Atlantic Express were likely to charge the same flying time as its parent company Air Atlantique.
I know for a fact that handling costs of an ATR don't change for an ATR-42 to a ATR-72!!

If you mean the cost for a passenger, then the website was stating £39.99 one-way JER-STN / STN-JER. Not bad if you ask me!

Blue Island would be likely to sell it at Blue Island rates, bearing in mind that they are a business orientated airline.

I don't know what island you're living on but Jersey roads aren't paived in Gold!! :rolleyes:

:ok:

[ICING AOA]

GBALU53, I was (a bit) kindding ! I know the Falcon 900 is very expensive! But in any case, it is full of Falcons at Jersey airports ! (maybe if those guys cant afford to fly in Falcon, then maybe they can fly in Cessna Citation ! it is also full of them at JER !! :} )


If you mean the cost for a passenger, then the website was stating £39.99 one-way JER-STN / STN-JER. Not bad if you ask me!


Not bad at all (especially for the customer!!), but this price is not the average price at all ! and it must not include all the additional fees, does it ? ! a normal fare is at least 4 or 5 times more :E .. And if Atlantic is giving up this market, it is probably because they just dont make money at all !
Why are FlyBe and Aurigny Air Services not interested in this route ?

It is still cheaper for JER PAX to do JER-LGW (for instance) and go to STN by coach or train...
It is still probably cheaper to do JER-GCI and GCI-STN :rolleyes:

In aviation, when a company wants to expand rapidly, it just ends in banckruptcy :{

[rsutt1]

Should have spoken to 'RT' (Former AWW Chairman), He likes wasting money on ATR's

[ICING AOA]

£39.99 was one way ALL INCLUSIVE....

the route was not making money, they were not expecting it to make money in year 1...or year 2....maybe year 3 though


At this price, it would have been impossible to reach year 2 :bored: :=

[GBALU53]

ICING AOA

I do not know where you get your information about lots of Falcons in Jersey.

There is one Falcon 900 based and sometimes a Falcon 50 is based in Jersey.

Any other Falcon is in transit.

There are a number of Cessna Citations based in Jersey but only one at the moment is available to joe public to charter.

So Jersey is not that full of Executive Jets after all especially for us to charter even if our pocket money was enough not ever one on the Islands can afford a decent car let alone a small Jet to run around in so bring on the LCCs.

[Capt. J. Upgrade]

Not bad at all (especially for the customer!!), but this price is not the average price at all ! and it must not include all the additional fees, does it ? ! a normal fare is at least 4 or 5 times more :E .. And if Atlantic is giving up this market, it is probably because they just dont make money at all !
Why are FlyBe and Aurigny Air Services not interested in this route ?


I would like to state for the record ATLANTIC EXPRESS DID NOT GO BANKRUPT. Atlantic Express and other parts of the Air Atlantique group were bought by AirTask2 I believe. There was no money shortage on behalf of AEX.
flYBE won't operate a JER-STN as they have a NWI service, and Aurigny aren't allowed to operate it as the funding behind GR (States of Guernsey) see it as helping jersey tourism, when they could be going to GCI.
Isn't life a B1TCH! :ok:

[GBALU53]

Well it was a number of reasons why the Jersey-Stansted route was pulled itwas not the route it self but the Company structure that was changing and the pending new owners were not prepared so do the Schedule.

Unfortunatly things have changed since then and it is to late to reserect the service with the loads facts nocking on to 50 per cent in the first six months of operations and the 2007 summer looking prommising but we can,t turn the clock back.

With Blueislands hopefully getting a Guernsey-Sothampton service going with an aircraft of about the fifty seater market the Jersey-Stansted could be a route they might look at if it can fit in to there schedules.

The year is still young and I think there might be more to come.:ok:

[Riverboat]

STN slots will be hard to come by, especially at the times AEX operated. Also with BMI starting LHR services from JER, twice a day, and LUT flights operating daily, one is inclined to think that it is not going to be easy to provide the same sort of service. Maybe a middle of the day service, like the Aurigny service from GCI would look after the VFR and holiday traffic, and some connecting traffic, but really it does seem to be a rather sad state of affairs.