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Melliandra
21st Dec 2006, 12:59
I'm sorry, but it's the Thursday before Christmas, I've been working on these drawings for the last week as the engineers keep changing their minds and now I'm fed up.

I've just recieved one of the drawings back (I'm apparently a CAD technician) with writing all over it with changes. Normally that's ok, it's got the changes on it and I do them. I don't generally have an amazing idea of what's going on in the drawing... I didn't design them. But today someone has decided that instead of just putting in changes they'll question how stupid I could be for writing it wrong in the first place.

Ok, so I'll admit writing "Install 29mm dia bolts" when the holes are 22mm is rather foolish, but is it necessary to put "?? In 22mm holes??" as a note when simply crossing it out and writing "20mm" would do? He has also written "Is this correct?" alongside a lot of the notes I was told to write, I am at a loss as to how he thinks I know.

Ok, rant over, Christmas is coming, and these drawings go out tonight. But needed to share, and this may be a good place for others to do so too, this isn't about traffic police or speeding tickets, it's about those in slightly higher paid jobs looking down on us menial labourers who can't get anything right.

matkat
21st Dec 2006, 13:06
Go and give him a good kicking, I see you are in Bristol so I guess Airbus I also worked for them in Bremen cannot say that this sort of thing happened there but I worked in Maintainability and reliability and I suppose we are thought about like that anyway:=

CWL2YOW
21st Dec 2006, 13:08
You could always make a CAD drawing of his a$$, with the note "Install 29mm dia bolts"...

Solid Rust Twotter
21st Dec 2006, 13:18
Menial labourers, tch....:rolleyes: :ok:

tony draper
21st Dec 2006, 13:33
Bah! phooee!!dammed furrin measurments, what it should read is Tap to 1 3/16" Whitworth.
One blames the French.
:rolleyes:

You want it when?
21st Dec 2006, 13:38
If your are on the Airbus site, pop over to 20W I'm sure those chaps have something in the cupboard that you could send to your engineer type... :)

goshdarnit
21st Dec 2006, 14:41
I used to take solace from the fact that went I didn't agree with a "directive from on high" it was simply because senior management was so much smarter than me, or at least had access to information that I didn't, therefore this directive surely made sense somewhere.
Sadly it is increasingly clear that neither of those is true, and that my company is largely top heavy with dopey spineless feckwits, who wouldn't know a good idea if it found their marbles for them.

Mind you, I work for them....:eek:

Jerricho
21st Dec 2006, 15:41
Yeah, I haven't seen The Duke in ages :E

matelot
21st Dec 2006, 15:43
A very interesting first post on an aviation forum.

Melliandra
21st Dec 2006, 15:49
A very interesting first post on an aviation forum.

Not that I feel like I have to defend myself, but this is Jet Blast mate, it's not always about the guys who fly the planes.

Edited to apologise, still quietly smoldering in my corner... And to say it isn't my first post (I didn't read your post properly) , not quite sure why it says it is. Must have been because I haven't been on for a while.

Jerricho
21st Dec 2006, 15:58
but this is Jet Blast mate

I think we need t-shirts and caps with that on :ok: :ok:

matelot
21st Dec 2006, 16:05
Not that I feel like I have to defend myself, but this is Jet Blast mate, it's not always about the guys who fly the planes.
Edited to apologise, still quietly smoldering in my corner... And to say it isn't my first post (I didn't read your post properly) , not quite sure why it says it is. Must have been because I haven't been on for a while.
No probs, ma cherie. :)

forget
21st Dec 2006, 16:13
Mr Drapes, Some Frenchman saw the problems involved with 'metrication'. Here's what none other than Napoleon had to say - :ok:

“Nothing is more contrary to the organisation of the mind, of the memory, and of the imagination. The new system of weights and measures will be a stumbling block and the source of difficulties for several generations. It's just tormenting the people with trivia”.

Loose rivets
21st Dec 2006, 18:23
I used to have a company that built and sold CAD work-stations, and when we started up here, seeing twenty-two thirty threeeeeths or sixty-four-billion-and- forty-seven trillionths, just blew my mind.

Didn't help my sales much telling saying to customers "You're all daft, you lot. How can you see all that blur of changing numbers." (The metric would of course just spool up logically -- while the others danced about all over the place.)

I noticed recently, while visiting customers that became friends, that there's not a numerator or denominator in sight. Perhaps one day I'll be able to buy a metric tape measure in Texas.
(Funnily enough, the Mexicans went metric for their building years ago. )

Blacksheep
22nd Dec 2006, 05:31
Don't take it too hard Melliandra, a proper Engineer goes and discusses things with the CAD Technician (?) - or what I'd call a Draughstman (...or woman. I hired a hard working young lady last time and she's still with us). You're obviously dealing with amateurs.

what it should read is Tap to 1 3/16" Whitworth.Whitworth? Nah! On flying machines we'd use British Standard Fine (BSF) for big bolts and British Association (BA) for the smaller ones. We still use AF on proper aeroplanes. (If it ain't B____g, I ain't going ;) )

Loose rivets
22nd Dec 2006, 05:46
........... we'd use British Standard Fine (BSF) for big bolts


Flippin' heck. All these years I thought that meant British Standard Fred.:}

(see pronunciation thread for full meaning)

Krystal n chips
22nd Dec 2006, 05:58
Whitworth? Nah! On flying machines we'd use British Standard Fine (BSF) for big bolts and British Association (BA) for the smaller ones. We still use AF on proper aeroplanes. (If it ain't B____g, I ain't going ;) )

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the flap drive motor replenishment bolt head on the "Biggest heap of sŁŁt ever to take to the skies"---or the ATP if you want to be more precise----was / is a 5/16 Whit. There again, look who built the heap !.

tony draper
22nd Dec 2006, 08:42
Dunno why but one used to love drilling and tapping holes,summat very satisfying about it,they prolly import all the holes ready tapped from bloody China now.
:rolleyes:

ShyTorque
22nd Dec 2006, 10:03
Indeed they do, Mr. D.

I bought a kit which includes a box full of 'em in different sizes and a shocking great big pair of plier things to install them. Rivnuts, I think they're called. :ok:

tony draper
22nd Dec 2006, 10:10
One has a fine set of taps in a polished wooden box Mr T inherited from me uncle Les, he used em when he built our buckets of sunshine at Aldermasten,he said those V Bomber chaps were very careless and said buckets were always being returned full of dints and dings,despite the brass label upon em that said Handle with care do not drop.still he said his little copper hammer soon sorted em.
:rolleyes:

frostbite
22nd Dec 2006, 12:14
Who's got the machine for making holes in washers?

tony draper
22nd Dec 2006, 12:29
They don't make em like that now, they use pre formed holes and stamp the washers out around em,feckin automation will be the ruin of us.
:rolleyes:

Choxolate
22nd Dec 2006, 12:29
Marco Polo?

Loki
22nd Dec 2006, 13:42
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall the flap drive motor replenishment bolt head on the "Biggest heap of sŁŁt ever to take to the skies"---or the ATP if you want to be more precise----was / is a 5/16 Whit. There again, look who built the heap !.

We always used to say that ATP stood for "Another Technical Problem"

MReyn24050
22nd Dec 2006, 17:00
Some years ago I was involved in the design and production of drawings for an additional camera window to be installed in a Piper Apache. The said window was to be installed to the rear of the existing cabin windows on the port side of the aircraft. Having completed the drawings and obtained the necessary modification clearance I took the drawings to the Chief Engineer. The drawings were then passed to the shop floor. A couple of hours later I got a call from the Chief Engineer stating that there was a problem with the design. As I entered his office I was verbally attacked by a rather pompous fitter stating that he had cut the aperture required but demanded to know how could anyone be expected to take photographs through the resulting aperture. When we reached the aircraft I asked how he had arrived at the resultant aperture. He replied that he had traced the hole to be cut from the drawing, my reply was I am glad that I had drawn it half full size and not double full size and suggesting that next time perhaps he might take the trouble to read the drawing and mark out accordingly before cutting metal.

spork
22nd Dec 2006, 17:18
Aaah! Drilling and tapping and the smell of cutting oil! Thanks for the memories.

To everything - turn, turn, turn,
There is a season - turn, turn, turn,
And a thread for every purpose under heaven.

BSF and Whitworth - mmmmm!

Loose rivets
22nd Dec 2006, 17:31
Rivnuts, I think they're called. :ok:

Oi!! You're talking of the women I love!:}

Blacksheep
23rd Dec 2006, 00:49
AAh yes Krystal n chips you've reminded of the horrors of the flap drive on that Avro 748 contraption that was an ancestor of your ATP. Some idiot put Whitworth bolts on it and we had to buy spanners especially for it. Personally I'd have rather have welded the flaps in the fully down position. It would hardly have had much affect on the old girls's flying qualities.

he said those V Bomber chaps were very careless and said buckets were always being returned full of dints and dings,despite the brass label upon em that said Handle with care do not drop.Having been at Ground Zero when the armourers dropped one, I reckon he was right, tony. They say the world record for 100 meters is 9 point something seconds, but they're very, very wrong! ;)

tony draper
23rd Dec 2006, 07:50
Dont think that 100 "yards" wudda done you much good Mr B.:E

Davaar
23rd Dec 2006, 09:22
This thread is by some careless or incompetent or sloppy worker who screwed up and doesn't like being corrected. Have I got that right?

Big, big, airplane or, if it turns your crank, aeroplane or aircraft is being built a few years syne as military transport, all new technology. Not rib and skin! Oh No! Sandwich and honeycomb! The latest, Man! Big beauty. Shiny.

You wanna carry tanks? We carry tanks. To make it easier to load tanks the gear or undercarriage was craftily designed to "kneel". "Kneel! Fido!" tank man would say, and big, big airplane would kneel, ramp would be lowered at the back, and tank would run up ramp. As neat as Katy's leg.

The multi-wheel gear was encased in "blisters", all along the side of the fuselage. See! There they are. Lovely!

When the gear kneels, there is an elbow or knee, take your choice of imagery (You'll find the same thing in Charles Peguy; Gosh! All knowledge is one), and swoosh the whole airplane comes down. Hydraulic, we call it in the trade.

The elbows are accommodated by what we call "doors" or holes in the blisters, doors port, doors starboard. Here a door, there a door, everywhere a door door. Airplane kneels, elbows bend, go towards holes in blister, doors open, elbows go through. Simple as that.

Look! I'll show you! "Kneel! Fido!".

Fido kneels.

Elbows bend, go towards blister.

Go straight through blister.

What's that? No holes? No doors?

Don't tell me some smug annoying git is going to complain.

tony draper
23rd Dec 2006, 09:49
Working on the new Tyneside Metro system,shiny new train is brung from the test track to run on the real lines for the first time,we contracters line the platform to see yer actual metro train come into the station, low frequency rumble issues from tunnel rapidly replaced by horrible screeching noise as the lead carridge tries to pull alongside platform, it does not fit!!the platform is to wide the trams to fat!!,much head scratching,the platform edge has a four by four wooded board along its entire length,it should have been four by two,heads should roll but as the norm in these situation they don't,not at the top anyway,some poor spearcarrier in overalls will probably get his books.
The big debate that follows is accompanied by reams of paperwork issued to every body and their dog, should the space the train takes up as it moves and sways along the line be called the "Structure Gauge" as per British Rail,or should such a new enterprize as the Metro have its own name for the lump of space time the tootoo trains occupy and be called the "Kinematic Envelope"?
Kinematic Envelope won out,much to the disgust of the BR chaps who had tranfered to the Metro,"Structure Gauge" had been good enough for them for the last 150 years after all.
The problem was solved by a simple engineering solution and a still saw the four by fours were chopped down to two by four.
Thus do we progress.
:rolleyes:
Prudently the Press had not been invited to this first run.

Blacksheep
24th Dec 2006, 12:41
Dont think that 100 "yards" wudda done you much good Mr B.:E Running is a primaeval survival response, one reason the human race is still here today. A handling team never bothers about the sunshine, but the ordinary explosion used as a trigger does worry a mis-handling team. I dunno who designed that bloody hoist, but his ears must have been permanently on fire from all the cursing he got.

I wonder if it was as per the drawing?