Jetscar int. ops proving that it's all about "choice".

[speedbirdhouse]

The following is a cut and paste from an Indian newspaper that suggests the "bastard childs " business model might be :rolleyes: finding things a little tough in the international arena............



Jetstar may clip its wings in India
Madhumita Mookerji
Wednesday, December 20, 2006 21:46 IS



KOLKATA: Jetstar Asia, the first low-cost overseas carrier to have entered India, is said to be reviewing its India operations.

If market rumours are any indication, it may even take a call on withdrawing its operations from the country. Jetstar officials, when contacted in Singapore over phone, did not respond. Officials from the carrier’s general sales agent (GSA) in India, the Bird Group, said: “Nothing is definite at the moment.” It seems a meeting is slated between the carrier and the GSA some time later this month, when a decision could be taken.

At present, the Singapore-based carrier operates only out of Bangalore — three times a week. It had started in India from Kolkata in August 2005, offering fares as low as about Rs 6,000 for a Kolkata-Singapore-Kolkata round trip.

However, the carrier withdrew operations from Kolkata in less than a year. According to industry sources, cut-throat competitive pricing from a rival carrier, along with poor load factor, forced the carrier to withdraw operations from Kolkata. A full-service carrier operating on the same route, sources said, also brought down its fares to about Rs 6,000 for a round ticket on the Kolkata-Singapore-Kolkata sector.

Passengers found such an offer hard to resist, especially since it was a full-service carrier, with meals included in the ticket. Passengers had to buy meals on board Jetstar. Sources also said the average load factor on the 180-seater aircraft was about 35%, which can make operations unviable to sustain.


http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1070407

[Aussie]

Anyone know how Jet*Asia is doing anyway, not much said about them....

Aussie

[DutchRoll]

Anyone know how Jet*Asia is doing anyway, not much said about them....
There's a reason for that. Jetstar Asia are doing just as well as when they started - my understanding is that they are skating on very thin ice. Senior Management types being as they are these days though, nothing will be said until the staff turn up for work one day and find the gates locked up.

[alangirvan]

Qantas mainline has been signing codesharing deals with Jet Airways, a full service Indian carrier. Perhaps it would make more sense for the Qantas
group to exchange passengers with Jet Airways at SIN. It does give passengers meal service between Australia and India instead of J*, which is always going to be second best to SIA.

[Tankengine]

And the reasons Jetstar Int will be any different to Jetstar Asia ARE??????:ugh:

[Pete Conrad]

Tankengine...it will be different..it will end up being Qantas aeroplanes and Qantas service standards being flown under Jetstar pay and conditions.....sigh, bl@@dy sigh......

[404 Titan]

Pete Conrad

That's if it lasts that long. I seriously doubt it. If J* Asia was a drain on QF's coffers, just wait till J* Int starts doing the same thing. Qf will be haemorrhaging cash.

[Bolty McBolt]

Not sure if its an indication of the management but recently Jet* lost 5 Licensed aircraft engineers whom walked due to failed promises conditions and management style and another left in march this year due to same reasons. Rumour has it management in logistics and engineering have no operational experience and have been measured and found wanting in making operational decisions.....

To put this in perspective if you have an a engineering license on the A320 type there are about 3 jobs you can walk into at Changi on good money, but the guys whom left Jet* have been prevented from changing companies due to the fact that Tamasek have interests in all the operators who operate the A320 and does not allow poaching of staff.

These 6 guys just left ! :ugh: Sounds like a great place to work, NOT.

[max autobrakes]

So much choice out there!:}

[Pete Conrad]

404...your right, and yet if you look at the investment in J* thus far you will see 23 A320's for a return of $11 million profit...considering that QF domestic contributes over $200 million profit I'd say that says allot about J*. But hang on, lets not let the facts stand in the way of good spin from J*

Just look at how well Virgin Blue are performing, 40% increase in profits, long haul starting up...and they don't get the handouts from QF like J* do......

Heres a thought..how about the proposed new owners of QF cut Jetstar loose and see how long it survives?

I think the success of Virgin and Qantas points to the issue........Virgin/Qantas are brands that the travelling public relate to.....J* on the other hand...well.....??????

What was it that the head of Cathay said about a year ago?...."our Low Cost Airline is our economy section of our jets"....proof that you can still be a successfual airline without beating the public into submission!

[longjohn]

Not sure if this would be such a great idea.


Consider the consequences:


Qantas immediately needs at least 15 A320 / 737 size A/C to resume 'serveices' to ports on which it currently uses Jetstar to carry the pax(LT, HBA, CG, MC etc). Yes I can already hear pavlov's pilots, however, under the current QF cost structure the result would be some $750M of Capital being tied up to make a LOSS, definately not the stuff Macbank are known for.

Meanwhile, the shackles are removed from Jetstar. Avalon is dropped in favour of Tulla. Direct Sydney - Brisbane, Perth etc. etc. A removal of the 'low service' image in a move not dissimilar to Virgin Blue. Depending on the new owner (SQ? Emirates?) expansion could be more aggressive and targetted directly at QF and DJ's higher yield (Brand name change / reposition).

Whilst all this was going on, Virginblue would be maximising every possible advantage.

At the end of the day, with the lowest cost per ASK of any major airline in AUS it is too attractive a proposition to a potential suitor. The brand may not be known for quality, but it is for price, and VERY well known. Brand respositioning occurs reguarly in business. Like Virgin Blue, Jetstar would aim for the lowest hanging 'buisness' fruit.

I have no doubt that QF management would be aware of far more reasons than this 'not' to cut Jetstar loose. If, however, as many of my learned colleagues suggest, Jetstar is not profitable, then the comprimise may be to simply return the a/c to QF colours ala the Qantas link days.

Better to keep Rosemary's baby in the womb me thinks.

[404 Titan]

longjohn
Qantas immediately needs at least 15 A320 / 737 size A/C to resume 'serveices' to ports on which it currently uses Jetstar to carry the pax(LT, HBA, CG, MC etc).
Not necessarily. It really depends how efficiently QF uses it’s current resources i.e. both aircraft and staff. You are assuming that QF’s aircraft are being utilised to their maximum. I have a few mates on the 737 who tell me that the hours they work per month has declined considerably since J* started. Could it be argued that maybe the aircraft aren’t being utilised to their full potential?
Meanwhile, the shackles are removed from Jetstar.
More like J* will cease to be propped up by its parent company and the financial shackles will be removed from QF.
Depending on the new owner (SQ? Emirates?) expansion could be more aggressive and targetted directly at QF and DJ's higher yield (Brand name change / reposition).
I think you will find that foreign ownership in any Australian airline is limited to 49% and any foreign carrier to 25%. Either way it’s a non controlling interest.
At the end of the day, with the lowest cost per ASK of any major airline in AUS it is too attractive a proposition to a potential suitor. Only because they are propped up by QF. Remove QF’s support and watch the cost per ASK go through the roof. It’s a wonderful thing smoke and mirrors. QF have been using it extensively in hiding the true cost of J*’s operation since day one.
Like Virgin Blue, Jetstar would aim for the lowest hanging 'buisness' fruit.
Yeh the easy pickings. History has constantly proven that there is only enough room for two major airlines in the Australian market. What we have at present is only two airlines. One of them though is pretending to be two though.
If, however, as many of my learned colleagues suggest, Jetstar is not profitable, then the comprimise may be to simply return the a/c to QF colours ala the Qantas link days.
I suspect that is what will happen once they have screwed enough of their employees, after all you have to rationalise the number of managers two airlines creates don’t you?

[Pete Conrad]

I think what we see here is typical Jetstar rationalisation of their own self importance..and that starts from the top...everything thats ever come out from management re Jetstar is always positive...everything that ever comes out re the red tail brand is always negative..longjohn, what you say may happen..that being QF jets being flown around with Jetstar crews...now theres something to truly hold your head high over as in the process, you would of actively f@cked over one group of pilots who were already doing the job while the company makes healthy profits every year and while senior managers make squillions from top bonuses....Theres a stack of under utilised QF A330 and B737 pilots out there that could do the flying, thing is, they aint willing to lower themselves to your level longjohn.....

[longjohn]

Nothing wrong with playing the man eh Pete?

So because I post a comment which invites intelligent comment and seeks the truth and facts I am automaticaly branded as 'the enemy'. Is that correct?

It would appear that modern day Mcathyism is alive and well on Pprune.

Given that so far I have seen one factually incorrect attempt to villify my post, and another just plain abusive perhaps, as many are discovering day by day, this site is truly degenerating to a 'slag jetstar fest'.(sorry woomera).

Yet I am sure Pete was one of those telling the ex AN boys to cool it after some of our 'emotional anti Air NZ' comments post Ansett's collapse. Perhaps he was even one of those enjoying rapid promotion on the backs of our misery? Were you patting your mates on the back and congratulating them on their 6 month stint from s/o to F/O? Or perhaps even an 8 year command? :D Or maybe you were at DJ studying furiously for your 9 month command upgrade? Bad luck, but to the victors go the spoils eh?

Aviation is a great leveller.

I have never chosen to defend Jetstar's terms and conditions, there is no doubt they are way below what I was enjoying only 6 years ago:rolleyes: I may add, at the same time my QF mates were saying we were 'overpaid'.

However, if the last 13 years of my turbulent airline career has taught me one thing, it is to keep my eyes open. Like 13000 others, I refused to believe that Ansett would go under, despite the obvious signs, and it did, the world changed. In fact, the world moved on, many people today see the collapse of a once proud airline as irrelevant.

6 years later I have thrown the blinkers in the bin.

Merry Christmas and Good luck.

[Pete Conrad]

It's ok longjohn, it wasnt that long ago you were having a go at Jetstar, so you have well and truly done a one eighty since you utilised the MOU!!

Me thinks you just uncovered the root of your own evil..lets get back at QF...why? because of your own percieved shortcomings...

Merry xmas to you too!!

[AnQrKa]

A quick check of JI compared to QF taking the last skytrax survey reports from each:

QF SYD-PER-SIN from yesterday. "Sadly both my impression of Qantas was let down on both flights by food of a pretty appalling standard." and "For my next trip to OZ I will be looking for an alternative carrier."

JI SYD-HKT from 2 days ago. "The crew on both flights were attentive, friendly and available in the cabin." and "Overall, for much the same price as a Qantas Economy ticket, you can travel in Star Class in more comfort, with in my view much better service."

Sounds like Jetstar International are off to a good start.

[apacau]

You really shouldn't take one report on Skytrax for gospel, but in this case I have to agree with the Qantas sentiments. Having flown many an airline (always in Y), my latest trip, finishing just a few weeks ago saw me travel ADL-MEL-HKG-LHR and PVG-SYD on Qantas. It was very average and the food was appalling - things have definitely gone downhill since I last flew Qantas. AVOD was good, there's no question, but still falls behind the Emirates and Virgin Atlantic products I have recently experienced.

Then again, my flight on Finnair from HEL to PVG was even worse, even though it was on the wonderful MD11 with some of the best legroom in the industry.

[B772]

Anyone know how Jet*Asia is doing anyway, not much said about them....
Aussie

I know J* Asia are now operating 3 times per day from SIN to BKK and twice a day from SIN to HKG.

A pilot I spoke to recently said they were planning further expansion in 2007 and needed approx. 30 more pilots.

[topgun0007]

Speedbirdhouse and others, I hope no one is confusing Jetstar Asia with Jetstar International, two very different animals.

JQA never developed the model they needed due to incompetencies in the managment and no one really of any substance in a leadership position.

As for the interest in the potential buy out and subsequent standing/viability of the various group components, for my two cents worth i would put my money on the JQ model.

Years ago when the profitable airlines around the world were running 300 employees per aircraft, Ansett, TAA and QANTAS were around 700 employees per aircraft.

The situation today is better, but antiquated work practises, strong unions and outdate employment contracts still hamstring our industry.

I have no doubt that all the QF pilots are extremely competent, but they are no better than the rest of us out there earning a living as professional pilots.

We can all do their job equally as well as they do, no ifs no buts, just plain fact.

I am sick and tired of hearing the w***ers, pis88ng in the wind puffing their chests out and claiming to be the best or better than the rest.

We are all equal.

And as for the 89ers ...well, my belief is the only people who lost out in 89 were the travelling public, the industry lost a lot of great aviators who new the Australian scene.

The winners were the guys who took opportunities overseas and saw that there are a multiplicity of methods by which to remove the epidermus from the feline and that the Australian way was not the only way....

They came back or stayed in OS positions, but most were better people and aviators for it.

Those who never let it go just put far to much energy into being pis33d with the world.

Nobody has a mortgage on all the good ideas.

I do not work for QF nor JQ but you guys need to get your sh1t in a pile and work together.

If you dont, you are on a hiding to nothing.

The new management will divide and conquer an already weak group that is disorganised, fractionalised and poorly led.

The pilot buy in of QF will only raise the ire of the new owners and the upside is a win?

Blocking the sale will see your shares free fall to less than $3.20 a share, not good business sense, and at 1% holding, what would you acheive?

Possibly only a reduction in your hard earned super.

Well merry christmas and happy new year to everyone

[E.P.]

"I do not work for QF nor JQ but you guys need to get your sh1t in a pile and work together."

Lovely post there Wazza. :ok:

But do be a good old sock and admit that you work for JQI.:cool: