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yakker
20th Dec 2006, 20:20
These things are a bl**dy nuisance.

If you can see the standard rear lights half a mile away, you DON'T need the rear fogs on.

If you can see better with main beam than dip, you DON'T need the rear fogs on.

If you can travel faster than 40mph, you DON'T need the rear fogs on.

If you are in a built up area with street lights, you DON'T need the rear fogs on.

These bl**dy things dazzle the following driver and make it difficult for him to see your brake lights. Today I was doing 70mph on the dual carriageway when I was overtaken, as the car went by he had his rear fogs on, Tw*t.

Rant Over.

Bo Nalls
20th Dec 2006, 20:23
Arguably better than the prat who overtook me today with no lights whatsoever - and this at 18:15 on the A96 leaving aberdeen!!

Noah Zark.
20th Dec 2006, 20:30
Yakker,
You've just beaten me to my annual rant!
Those bloody lights must be one of the worst "inventions" ever.
It would be interesting to know how many accidents they had been instrumental in causing, as opposed to helping to prevent.

Whirlygig
20th Dec 2006, 20:31
Quite! Except I would like to point out to the good folk of Norfolk that, if I can not only read your registration but can also tell from whence you bought the car, you DO NOT need your rear hi-vis lights on!

I had a conversation with a work colleague in the pub last night. I explained that I put on my fog lights when I can't see any other cars. Then, when I can see a car behind, I turn them off. If I can see him, he can see me!

So, colleague says, "Are you saying that I should turn on and turn off my fog lights all the time?" "YES!", I said.

Cheers

Whirls

Grainger
20th Dec 2006, 20:32
Sometimes you just have to despair. The latest fashion appears to be idiots driving around in the daytime with their headlights (and often foglights too) on full beam. While the Sun is shining. :confused: :rolleyes:

Yet once it gets dark they go around with 'em switched off.

Got stuck behind one of these twats this evening. No-one coming the other way, crawling along the road on his dipped beams, presumably going "oooo, I can't see". WELL PUT YOUR SODDING FULL BEAMS ON then you can see where you're going.

Turn them ON when you need them, and OFF when you don't. How complicated is that ?

Perhaps an IQ test before you're allowed to drive. That would cut congestion.

ShyTorque
20th Dec 2006, 20:37
Rear fogs are bad enough as they dazzle and mask brake lights but it's the front fogs that annoy me more, as they aren't checked for alignment as part of the MOT and are often wrongly aligned upwards. Some morons even use them as fashion accessory lights.

Especially when used in CAVOK conditions (but it was a bit misty three days ago... btw what does that funny light symbol on the dash mean? I dunno... :\ ).

About time the government spent a bit of our hard earned road fund on driver education. The Germans did a five minute TV campaign every night after the main evening news - a great idea.

Of course, as WE all know, front fogs are only to be used if the fog-reflected glare from mains or dips is too much to see the way forward - they AREN'T for others to see US by, as some seem to think. This only happens when the visibility in fog is down to about 100 metres.

Edit: Oh - now I see this is the annual hot topic!

Diatryma
20th Dec 2006, 20:40
Wots a fog light?

Di :)

Grainger
20th Dec 2006, 20:44
I have the perfect solution:

Fog light removal kit (http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/weapons/cannons/m230/m230_en.htm)

:E

G-CPTN
20th Dec 2006, 20:45
Yes, the logic of the 'fog rearguard' lamp eludes many folk. They were introduced after a spate of horrendous pile-ups on motorways during heavy fog such as has occurred over the last couple of days. The primary cause of such pile-ups was following drivers travelling blindly at undiminished speed into banks of thick fog and striking the rear of moving vehicles travelling at more modest speeds. (The primary collision HAS to be with a moving vehicle, unless motorists were stupid enough to stop on the carriageway.) Once the initial collision has occurred, then, of course, there are stationary vehicles on the highway. Yet more vehicles bearing-down at speed join the melee.
Can you spot the common factor? Following vehicles travelling at speeds in excess of that within which they can see to stop. So what do we do? We introduce high-intensity red lamps so that these excessive-speed maniacs stand a chance of seeing slower or stationary vehicles in the fog.
Does it stop the carnage? Not really, as the drivers that cause these collisions can now drive faster than before, knowing that they will get earlier preliminary warning than before. Just as seat safety belts encourage some drivers to drive faster (or more correctly, more dangerously) because they are cocooned by the protection of their seat belt.
So remember, whenever you have to travel in fog, don't worry about what might be in the road ahead, just make sure that you turn on your high-intensity rear lamps (it won't make any difference to your ability to see obstacles ahead, but it WILL - perhaps - stop any idiot who is travelling even faster than you are to avoid hitting you, especially if you've already hit a vehicle ahead of you . . . ).

Halfbaked_Boy
20th Dec 2006, 20:50
To be honest, with the kind of visibilities I've seen today, I'd rather be labelled as being a nuisance than have some 'tw*t' run into me from behind. I do however fully identify with the issue we're raising here and it is indeed annoying when you're on the motorway and blessed with two blazing red lights overtaking you at a relative speed of +0.00001 mph.
To consider them as a completely useless invention is, I believe, inappropriate - driving past Coalville earlier on I had stopped at a set of traffic lights at the end of a long straight country road (national speed limit) when I see these two lights come rushing out of the fog behind me totally oblivious of the red lights ahead and, judging by his violent braking action and resultant screeching of tyres, of me also.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody, but they are a useful aid to have when the visibility is GENUINELY reduced, especially considering some of the drivers out there who do not allow for the ever variable conditions.

All the best, Jack.

Buster Hyman
20th Dec 2006, 20:55
Fog lights, when used incorrectly, are a bluddy hazard!

However, as front fog lights being left on all the time is the current fad, I take much delight in using my rear fog lights on those that insist on running with their front ones on. I make sure they know it's just for them by turning them on when they are following & as they are passing or changing lanes, I turn them off.

:suspect: Cop that young Harry! :suspect:

Gertrude the Wombat
20th Dec 2006, 21:01
unless motorists were stupid enough to stop on the carriageway
I've never been forced to stop by fog ... but rain, that's another matter.

OK, thunderstorms round the Med you expect that, but it happened to me on the M4 once:confused: !! Everybody else was also stopping, it took me a while to find a space on the hard shoulder.

Rainboe
20th Dec 2006, 21:06
Have you noticed it's people with brand new cars that tend to leave fog lights on? As if they are a ray beam that will act like a tractor beam to keep other cars well away so there's no danger their nice new shiny little Peugeot will get scratched or dented by all the other dirty cars out there? I just love doing a close pass when I see that! I also work on the principle that if they are going to blind me, I will do the same with them, and turn on full BMW beams right behind them. It's supposed to be an offence to leave them on, not that the Police care about such things- too busy trying to catch me speeding.

yakker
20th Dec 2006, 21:09
If a car is following but cannot see your rear lights he will probably keep that distance as he cannot see you. Turn on the rear fogs, now he can see the red glimmer in the distance, he now speeds up and catches you up, and now sits on your rear bumper.

Halfbaked, yes coming to a halt in fog might be a good time to turn them on, ofcourse stopping with a gap to the vehicle in front, so if the car coming up behind doesnt stop you have room to move forward.

IQ test, that would cut congestion at a stroke, especially if the bar is set at 130:)

ShyTorque
20th Dec 2006, 21:11
To be honest, with the kind of visibilities I've seen today, I'd rather be labelled as being a nuisance than have some 'tw*t' run into me from behind. I do however fully identify with the issue we're raising here and it is indeed annoying when you're on the motorway and blessed with two blazing red lights overtaking you at a relative speed of +0.00001 mph.
To consider them as a completely useless invention is, I believe, inappropriate - driving past Coalville earlier on I had stopped at a set of traffic lights at the end of a long straight country road (national speed limit) when I see these two lights come rushing out of the fog behind me totally oblivious of the red lights ahead and, judging by his violent braking action and resultant screeching of tyres, of me also.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody, but they are a useful aid to have when the visibility is GENUINELY reduced, especially considering some of the drivers out there who do not allow for the ever variable conditions.
All the best, Jack.


Jack, in the situation where I am the last car in the queue and it looks like I am in danger of becoming the meat in a sandwich because of vehicles coming up fast behind me, I repeatedly pulse my brake pedal on and off to flash the car's brake lights. There's not much chance of them being missed, especially where a car has an additional "high level" brake light.

G-CPTN
20th Dec 2006, 21:16
Halfbaked Boy, you have, in a nutshell, identified the reason why the high intensity rear lamps were 'invented'. The idiot following driver travelling too fast for the prevaling conditions. So we have a device that condones this practice (because it certainly doesn't prevent it). Don't you see the fallacy of this argument? Instead of educating drivers to travel more slowly (or more considerately of the conditions) we provide devices that compensate for this dangerous behaviour. Next we will erect signs on corners so that drivers don't have to slow down to a speed reasonable for negotiating that corner, but enable them to arrive at a speed in excess of that which is appropriate for the prevailing conditions (be it ice or oil or merely rain).

And before you condemn me as a fuddy-duddy grandpa of a Sunday driver, I believe that my driving would better be described as 'spirited' and progressive. There is, however, a time and a place for speed, and inappropriate speed is DANGEROUS, either for YOU or for the poor guy ahead of you. WHY is it deemed inappropriate to travel at (say) 100 mph on a motorway (given appropriate visibility, weather and traffic conditions) but OK to rush into fog beyond your capability to STOP before you hit the vehicle ahead?

Wholigan
20th Dec 2006, 21:20
Extracts from The Highway Code

201: You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet). You may also use front or rear fog lights but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves (see Rule 211).
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27

211: You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 201) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27

Simple really!

G-CPTN
20th Dec 2006, 21:23
Visibility is seriously reduced
Don't you think that this alone requires drivers to slow down to an appropriate speed?

John Eacott
20th Dec 2006, 21:25
I had to use mine last Friday: 100 metres vis in bushfire smoke :p

;)

spinnaker
20th Dec 2006, 21:32
Don't you think that this alone requires drivers to slow down to an appropriate speed?
Or stop...

Loose rivets
20th Dec 2006, 21:34
I wish I had some fog.

31c here today....and we're 28 North!! I blame the Mexicans.

CarltonBrowne the FO
20th Dec 2006, 23:00
I drove about 300 miles today, most of it in fog. Personally I was glad of my fog lights (hire car, only had rear fog lights fitted- there was one stretch of winding A-road where front fog lights would have been useful, but not essential). I was also glad to see most other drivers also used their fog lights.
When I see car lights ahead, I subconsciously assume that the brighter the lights, the closer the car is. If the car has bright fog lights, this makes me think I am closer than I really am, so I back off a bit- in practice, it probably just puts me back at the normal clear weather distance.
MOST of the time, when I left the fog patches, I remembered to switch the fog lights off- so did most of the other cars I saw. I forgot once or twice, so did some other drivers- not the end of the world, I guess.
What DID stick in my mind today was how polite all the drivers seemed to be- the spaces between cars seemed larger than usual, people were manouvering to allow others to ull out as required- was everyone being extra careful for the fog, or is it a Christmas thing? Either was, if you were on the M1/A1/A66/A685/M6 or M74 today (no prizes for guessing which airports I was travelling between) thanks, it made the trip a lot less stressful. I can only hope I was as helpful in return!

chiglet
20th Dec 2006, 23:37
OOOO! Fog/Rain/Drizzle??? Switch on Fog Lights...:mad:
Clear vis... Fog Light OFF switch has magically vanished....:ugh:
Went to the local shop, woman arrives in car, Fogs blazing, me says "You've got your Fog Lights on"
"Thanks" says she......As I come out of the shop, she asks "Where are my Fog Lights, and how do I turn them OFF" :} :ugh: So I showed her, thick [email protected] :mad:
MY pet hate is the Muppet who hasn't got a handbrake Yep, HE sits there with his foot on the brake pedal......and he always has a "High Level Brake Light" :D
watp,iktch

ShyTorque
21st Dec 2006, 04:52
There are "muppets" who don't appear to have a handbrake. Some of them are just a bit lazy, but some will be driving automatics where the car tends to creep forward at idle against the applied handbrake.

Putting the car in "N" stops that, of course, but then many automatics require the brake pedal to be pressed hard before it is possible to put the car back in "D", due to a safety interlock. Obviously the brake lights come on again, too.

Krystal n chips
21st Dec 2006, 04:59
Awww, be fair now. The ergonomics of selecting fog lights / lights on and off as required are probably more complex than selecting the indicator stalk to left or right now aren't they ? :rolleyes:

A628 Monday en-route to Grimethorpe---20metres in parts on the top---lost count of the "no lights at all brigade" :mad:

M56 Tuesday----800metres between Juncs 6-7 and a bit further after 7. No less than 4 "4x4" tanks ---NO lights !!!----get past Junc7 and viz goes to excellent---on go the lights at this point !!!----f££ckwit's day out it seemed. And, as mentioned by others, the full beam / rear fogs brigade blissfully unware of the fact the viz is CAVOK. :ugh:

ShyTorque
21st Dec 2006, 05:25
Aahh, exactly! The fashion accessory lights brigade. There's no point putting on fashion lights in the fog because you can't see them and it's a waste. :ok:

Captain Smithy
21st Dec 2006, 06:49
Aahh, exactly! The fashion accessory lights brigade. There's no point putting on fashion lights in the fog because you can't see them and it's a waste. :ok:

Well said!

One of the most irritating bad driving habits, those eejits who drive everywhere in clear daylight with their fecking front fog lights on pretending to be touring car drivers. Usually BMWs, Mundaneos and Arsestras that are guilty of this := although it's helpful in identifying the bad drivers - a bit like "baby on board" signs:ok:

PanPanYourself
21st Dec 2006, 07:04
People who drive with their high-beams on should just be gathered up, taken off to some island, and beaten repeatedly with a blunt object. There are only 3 possible reasons why they do this:

1. They don't realise they're blinding other drivers on the road and creating a potentially dangerous situation. In which case they're stupid.
2. They don't care that they're blinding other drivers. In which case they're just assholes.
3. They can't see the road without their high-beams on. In which case they shouldn't be driving to begin with.


On the fog lights issue, there are those who never ever turn them off, because they think it looks cool. These people also belong on my island of punishment.

Oh, and the idiots who don't signal before moving into a mandatory turning lane, but signal once they're in the lane and its already obvious they're going to turn.

Captain Smithy
21st Dec 2006, 07:06
People who drive with their high-beams on should just be gathered up, taken off to some island, and beaten repeatedly with a blunt object. There are only 3 possible reasons why they do this:

1. They don't realise they're blinding other drivers on the road and creating a potentially dangerous situation. In which case they're stupid.
2. They don't care that they're blinding other drivers. In which case they're just assholes.
3. They can't see the road without their high-beams on. In which case they shouldn't be driving to begin with.


On the fog lights issue, there are those who never ever turn them off, because they think it looks cool. These people also belong on my island of punishment.

Oh, and the idiots who don't signal before moving into a mandatory turning lane, but signal once they're in the lane and its already obvious they're going to turn.

:D :D :D :D :D

D SQDRN 97th IOTC
21st Dec 2006, 07:29
look at the way the manufacturers advertise some of their cars.....
with "driving lights" on......

some muppets turn them on in the rain even. BMW drivers are the worst for this.

but is there a silver lining in this cloud to make you smile?
Yes - these muppets are more likely to get a tug from plod this chrimbo with a request to "blow hard into the tube....."

and are they dangerous? Bloody hell yes. You can see the car in front of you, but due to the dazzle, you can't tell anymore if he's braking or not.

ps - what do mean plod doesn't patrol the roads anymore and their duty has been abdicated to speed cameras ? Surely not?:oh:

lplsprog
21st Dec 2006, 10:18
The latest fad seen recently is to drive only on sidelights and with the fog lights on.:confused:
However manufacturers should put the warning indicator for the fog lights on the main dashboard cluster, instead of on the switch itself, which would be more obvious to the driver. Everyone knows that after fog it takes days for some people to remember to switch them off! :bored:

woolyalan
21st Dec 2006, 10:29
Sometimes you just have to despair. The latest fashion appears to be idiots driving around in the daytime with their headlights (and often foglights too) on full beam. While the Sun is shining.

Sorry, wasn't my fault!

Let someone out of a junction the other day via flashing main beam (and spotlights on my car) and the spotlights stayed on, but the mainbeam headlamps didnt. I had no idea until I got stuck in traffic and could see the reflection of my car in the guy infront.

Checked main beam wasn't on, turned off all lights (as it was a bit on the foggy/dull side) still on, as I was stuck in traffic I turned off the engine and pulled out the key... spotlights were still on, blinding the world :eek:

Pulled over and took out the fuse, problem solved, i still need to get round to fixin them :uhoh:

Melliandra
21st Dec 2006, 10:59
The latest fad seen recently is to drive only on sidelights and with the fog lights on.:confused:
However manufacturers should put the warning indicator for the fog lights on the main dashboard cluster, instead of on the switch itself, which would be more obvious to the driver. Everyone knows that after fog it takes days for some people to remember to switch them off! :bored:

Mine does, it's to the left of my headlights symbol...

Agree with most comments already made today. This morning, vis <50m and there seem to be a disproportional amount of the "no-lights" brigade... It always seemed to be silver cars too, which means you can just about make out the tires...

Saying that, I didn't see any accidents this morning, whereas last night, middle of the town, no fog, fully lit, I had courtside seats to a head on... I couldn't tell you where either driver was looking but it certainly wasn't to the front.

SyllogismCheck
21st Dec 2006, 10:59
Sounds like the contacts in the relay have welded themselves closed, woolyalan.

Not that they're expensive but to save yourself the bother of having the dealer order one in, then trying to find a time to go and collect it when they're open at this time of year and all that malarkey, pull the relay out, prise the cover off (sometimes they appear to be well glued on but can usually be teased off by working around the edge with a knife or fine screwdriver) and pull the guts out. Then very gently pop the contacts open and clean the faces with a piece of fine abrasive paper. Folding a narrow strip of paper double so that it's abrasive out on both sides then putting it between the open contacts, pushing them lightly closed onto the paper then withdrawing the paper should do the trick after a couple of goes. Once you've found the offending relay, it's the work of a few minutes start to finish, so quicker than the trip out to the dealer.

I have some experience with this as I once had a classic British wreck... I mean car... which had a habit of doing this with one after another of its chocolate relays until I think the majority had been cleaned and continued to work without further fault.

Capt. Queeg
21st Dec 2006, 11:15
I repeatedly pulse my brake pedal on and off to flash the car's brake lights

Wouldn't it be just as easy to switch on the hazard lights??

forget
21st Dec 2006, 11:21
Baby On Board signs started life with a very useful purpose. Years ago, Minnesota I think, a car ran off the road and over-turned into snow. Medics turn up and remove the unconscious driver and his wife. Many hours later the wife comes-to in hospital. "Where's my baby" she askes. Too cold - and too late. That's when the signs were introduced. Don't serve much purpose outside of Tesco's.

Which reminds me, I saw a very useful sign on a BIG truck in the US.

Rescue Services. In case of accident please check spare driver rest compartment.
Same thing really.

419
21st Dec 2006, 11:39
If in doubt, Snope it!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/parental/babysign.asp

Flight Data
21st Dec 2006, 11:46
Not much chance of sensible foglight use when the AA are publishing these in a report on the BBC website:


Use fog lights when appropriate
Do not keep switching fog lights on and off - this can be a distraction
Only drive as fast as conditions allow
Maintain a greater distance between you and the car in front


Points 1, 3 and 4 are fine and dandy, but the second point?
:hmm:

panda-k-bear
21st Dec 2006, 11:50
Driving to work this morning, fog patchy in places but generally not too bad, usually beeter than 100m vis though down to about 50 or 60 in places. Come up behind a Punto with normal tail lights on (no worries, could see it a good way off) but travelling v slowly. Come on, missus, thought I. Then realised that the driver was looking in her rear view mirror in order to apply her lipstick. In fog. And heavy traffic. Good grief!

Both my wife's car and mine have a design of fog light switch that 1) means you have to turn on the front fogs before you can turn on the back ones and 2) forces you to turn off the fogs when you turn the other lights off, resetting the switch and therefore preventing you accidentally turning them back on again when you drive with normal lights on the next time. the both have different designs but both have the fogs integrated into the normal headlight switch. Headlight switch has to be pulled out to turn the fogs on but automatically goes back "in" when you turn the lights off.

D SQDRN - have you ever driven in France? There they often have a problem with the roads draining properly, so surface water sits over the road markings in heavy rain, making them almost impossible to see as the reflected glare from the water hides them. There are no cats eyes, either, marking the centre or edges of the road. Very often, under these conditions, front fogs are the only way to see the edges of the road or of your lane.

ShyTorque
21st Dec 2006, 11:51
Wouldn't it be just as easy to switch on the hazard lights??

Yes, I do that too but I have noticed that hazards on take a bit longer to register to motorway drivers at speed, because drivers think about it first, then brake. The first reaction is to think "Why is he indicating and which way - Oh, its both, so it's his hazard warnings, so maybe I'll brake", by which time he's on you. Brake lights means "He's braking, I'll brake too". :ok:

I'm aware of what the highway code says re. hazard lights but I've put some thought into it from experience and find brake lights provide a better warning to following drivers. Does it really matter, as long as there is no shunt?

Another thing I do, when appropriate, is to deliberately stop a few yards short to give myself a few yards to go forwards if the following driver doesn't look like he's going to quite stop in time - that's prevented a collision on more than one occasion.

Friend of mine was rear-ended in a traffic queue by a dozy driver who didn't brake at all and was allegedly doing 80 mph. Not only were he and his wife very badly injured, their two beloved retriever dogs were killed.

I do whatever I can to drive and stay safe.

frostbite
21st Dec 2006, 11:59
There are drivers, and there are those who are merely steering wheel attendants.

ShyTorque
21st Dec 2006, 12:16
Totally agree, many motorway drivers seem to be at the limit of their ability just keeping in one lane, often the centre one. :8

I taught my three sons to drive motorways immediately after they passed their test. I told them to treat it like a football or rugby game and to know all the time where the other players are and where the next challenge is likely to come from, as if you have the ball all the time and everyone else wants it. Never stop thinking about the situation - because it changes by the second. If it gets busy, turn the radio off, sharpen up and don't get distracted.

Think which lights should be on, or off. Just because it was foggy back there and foglights were needed, turn the damned things off again as soon as it's best to do so - you won't wear the switch out any more than you will not wear the alternator out putting them on when they are needed.

If you can, try to anticipate the needs of other drivers and make their lives easier, such as by giving them a space to move out; drop back or change lanes if possible. With practice, you can move over even before they know they need to overtake, by judging their closing speed on the traffic ahead of them.

Sorry, I really got going then.......must be something in the tea! :O

SyllogismCheck
21st Dec 2006, 12:29
It's not just about fog lights though, is it?

It's a general reflection on the minimal application of thought, care and consideration for consequences that's required to be put into activities such as driving these days.

Along we whizz cocooned in our all-protecting steel cage, the climate therein electronically regulated to keep us snug. The music which drowns out the noise of the tyres splashing along the wet road and reminding us it's still slippery never ceasing as the radio automatically re-tunes itself. The oncoming traffic seeming like no threat at all against the airbags and pyrotechnic seatbelt pretensioners which will undoubtedly save our lives should the worst happen. The stability control waiting to bail us out should we need to swerve suddenly having been unaware of some obstruction ahead as we looked down to retrieve our coffee from the cup holder. And the ABS meaning we'll surely stop before we hit anything anyway.

All these advances are fantastic in their own way, of course, but they serve to remove us from one basic fact of our situation - two one and a half ton cars closing at 100mph store a hell of a lot more energy than any gadget in them will save us from.

We've forgotten all that though. 40, 50, even 80mph, it feels like we're barely moving, how can it be dangerous? So what does it matter if we dazzle others through our laziness to consider exactly what a position of responsibility we're in when we drive a car, van or lorry? It's no big deal, only a couple of lights, right?

I reckon everyone should be made to drive a Caterham 7 or ride a motorcycle on the road for a day and see how much attention actually feeling as vulnerable as we all really are inspires. Who knows, some of that attention may even be taken back into the cocoons and applied to the position of the fog light switch.

G-CPTN
21st Dec 2006, 12:38
I told them to treat it like a football or rugby game and to know all the time where the other players are and where the next challenge is likely to come from, as if you have the ball all the time and everyone else wants it. Never stop thinking about the situation - because it changes by the second. If it gets busy, turn the radio off, sharpen up and don't get distracted.
Think which lights should be on, or off. Just because it was foggy back there and foglights were needed, turn the damned things off again as soon as it's best to do so - you won't wear the switch out any more than you will not wear the alternator out putting them on when they are needed.
If you can, try to anticipate the needs of other drivers and make their lives easier, such as by giving them a space to move out; drop back or change lanes if possible. With practice, you can move over even before they know they need to overtake, by judging their closing speed on the traffic ahead of them.
Wise words there, ShyTorque.
Would that all drivers behaved thusly.

ShyTorque
21st Dec 2006, 12:53
Thanks, G-CPTN.

Before I gave my sons their first driving lesson, I asked each of them "What is the most lethal weapon that you, as a member of the public, can legally buy?"

As they sat, looking blank and guessing about shotguns and knives, I pointed out they were sitting in it. :suspect:

Hopefully that thought will stay with them.

Whirlygig
21st Dec 2006, 13:49
What amazes me is the driver with his rear fogs on who is, in turn, behind another driver who also has his rear fogs on.

Doesn't he ever think, "My word, they're bright and hurt my eyes plus I can't see his brake lights; perhaps I'll turn mine off so that that lovely girl in the sexy sportscar behind doesn't get blinded"?

Apparently not; I don't think anything goes through their brains; certainly the concept of safe stopping distances has passed the Norfolkians by.

Cheers

Whirls

Grainger
21st Dec 2006, 14:04
Answered your own question, Whirls: he's too busy looking in his rearview mirror admiring the sexy girl in the lovely sportscar to notice what's going on in front of him !

Besides the rosy glow from his rear light and the way you're batting your eyes (i.e squinting to see past the glare) just makes you look even more appealing . . .

Whirlygig
21st Dec 2006, 14:09
...or perhaps he's thinking, "that's a bad case of Rosacea"!

Cheers

Whirls

D SQDRN 97th IOTC
21st Dec 2006, 15:06
panda bear

You could always try glasses if you can't see the edge of the lane you're in.
But seriously, I wonder how motorcycists manage? During heavy rain, they also get the added problem of their visors misting up on the inside - so it's like having their own micro climate of fog inside their helmets, with the spray and mist outside! (They do get a clue however when the ride starts getting a bit bumpy that they may now be riding on the grass verge rather than the tarmac!)

and yes....I have driven in France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Holland, blah, blah...

and yes, extensively on two wheels as well as 4.

I'm not having a pop at you though. It's chrimbo and the feeling of good will should pervade to all men - banter, however, is acceptable, and this is jet blast! My point is for the posers who drive around in perfect visibility with the front lights on for no other reason than enhancing the asthetics of their motors. Can't really see any advertiser using the situation of heavy traffic and appalling weather with all fog lights on as the medium of choice to help sell their cars. Normally it's empty roads and perfect weather that they chose as ideal backgrounds for their adverts.

Sorry - good will to all men apart from BMW drivers who insist on driving with side lights and fog lights in perfect weather.

panda-k-bear
21st Dec 2006, 15:12
Absolutely - merry Chrible and all that jazz.

But you have to admit that the Autoroutes and Routes Nationales are v. v. poor vis wise in the wet... Especially in the south where rain seems to be unexpected. I remember having to slow to 20kph around Bordeaux once not due to the driving rain but not being able to see where the bl00dy road went. Cats eyes are a marvellous invention and ought to be ruled mandatory Europe wide!

Agree on the BM drivers front.... And I already do wear glasses. Too much... ahem... when I was a kid, I suppose :}

D SQDRN 97th IOTC
21st Dec 2006, 15:18
what?

like getting your cue out and playing with your billiards balls too often?

Whirlygig
21st Dec 2006, 18:24
However, from the puzzled looks (or impolite gestures!), I guess that awareness isn't high on their list of driving priorities...... :rolleyes:

Yup, that's probably about the size of it!

Many years ago, I used to live next door to a traffic cop; his "beat" was the stretch of M4 from Slough into London. He told me that when he firsted, he was full of enthusiasm and would stop people who were a) driving with their fogs on inappropriately, b) hogging the middle lane c) driving too close etc but, within a few weeks, gave up. He found it too painful having to explain to complete and utter morons the whys and wherefores of what they were doing. He said, they just simply didn't understand and that trying to explain was like banging his head against a brick wall.

So that is why many policemen don't stop these people to explain - it won't make any difference. If you're too thick to realise that the lights in front of you are blinding YOU, then you're certainly too thick to realise that your fogs may be blinding the person behind!

Cheers

Whirls

Man-on-the-fence
21st Dec 2006, 18:31
My current journey into work across the wylds of Oxfordshire is a distance of 12 miles. In the current pea souper I turn my fog lights off and on on average 3 times on that journey. No point in having them on when in a queue on the southern ring road now is there.

G-CPTN
21st Dec 2006, 18:40
What amazes me is the driver with his rear fogs on who is, in turn, behind another driver who also has his rear fogs on.
Doesn't he ever think, "My word, they're bright and hurt my eyes plus I can't see his brake lights; perhaps I'll turn mine off so that that lovely girl in the sexy sportscar behind doesn't get blinded"?
Apparently not; I don't think anything goes through their brains; certainly the concept of safe stopping distances has passed the Norfolkians by.
I once followed a car that was spewing petrol from the filler cap on every left turn. I overtook the vehicle and manged to persuade him to stop. I explained that he was spilling fuel on every corner and his reply was a band "Yea, mate! I'm tanked-up."
:ugh:
He never left his seat or considered that there might actually be something wrong with his car . . .

There ARE people out there (and driving) who seem to lack basic levels of intelligence. I ponder how such folk navigate (although I DO know of the wife of a colleague who set off north on the M1 from St Albans shortly after passing her test (in the late 60s) to visit her sister in Cambridge. She telephoned my mate from Coventry saying that there hadn't been any signposts to Cambridge. She wasn't 'thick', just hadn't taken notice all those years as a passenger.)

C130 Techie
21st Dec 2006, 18:45
It's not just about fog lights though, is it?

It's a general reflection on the minimal application of thought, care and consideration for consequences that's required to be put into activities such as driving these days.

Along we whizz cocooned in our all-protecting steel cage, the climate therein electronically regulated to keep us snug. The music which drowns out the noise of the tyres splashing along the wet road and reminding us it's still slippery never ceasing as the radio automatically re-tunes itself. The oncoming traffic seeming like no threat at all against the airbags and pyrotechnic seatbelt pretensioners which will undoubtedly save our lives should the worst happen. The stability control waiting to bail us out should we need to swerve suddenly having been unaware of some obstruction ahead as we looked down to retrieve our coffee from the cup holder. And the ABS meaning we'll surely stop before we hit anything anyway.

All these advances are fantastic in their own way, of course, but they serve to remove us from one basic fact of our situation - two one and a half ton cars closing at 100mph store a hell of a lot more energy than any gadget in them will save us from.

We've forgotten all that though. 40, 50, even 80mph, it feels like we're barely moving, how can it be dangerous? So what does it matter if we dazzle others through our laziness to consider exactly what a position of responsibility we're in when we drive a car, van or lorry? It's no big deal, only a couple of lights, right?

I reckon everyone should be made to drive a Caterham 7 or ride a motorcycle on the road for a day and see how much attention actually feeling as vulnerable as we all really are inspires. Who knows, some of that attention may even be taken back into the cocoons and applied to the position of the fog light switch.

Absolutely spot on. You don't have to drive to experience this sort of attitude you only have to walk down the street or around the shops to discover that people are only interested in their own little world.

After my experience today on J16 of the M4 it seems that stopping at RED traffic lights is now optional, particularly if your vehicle has 18 wheels:mad:

Blues&twos
21st Dec 2006, 23:52
My car is designed such that you have to switch on the front fogs before you can switch on the rear fogs. (same switch, two positions). This means if I'm at the back of a queue in thick fog (when I need the rear fogs on) I can't avoid possibly dazzling the driver in front.

And after three people have run into the back of me in separate incidents over the last two years while I have been stationary - the last one in France, writing off my Renault Scenic, I'm a bit paranoid about not being visible to drivers bearing down on me from behind....

Gingerbread Man
22nd Dec 2006, 11:06
It would be interesting to know how many accidents they had been instrumental in causing, as opposed to helping to prevent.

I can't really imagine a situation where a slightly brighter than normal red light would cause an accident, but i'll agree that some people can't even be trusted with the authority of turning a light on and off. I've never been dazzled by fog lights, but they do look rather stupid when you have sidelights on and fog lights, clearly marking yourself out as a dunce.

Far worse in my book though, is people like a white van driver yesterday, who didn't have any lights on. Thanks for that! You're the same colour as the air around you but you didn't think it as worth clicking on those lamps. Or maybe your brain had long since dribbled out of your head, so you weren't thinking full stop.

Ginger ;)

spork
22nd Dec 2006, 17:29
There's just the two types of driver on the foggy roads today, every damned light switched on, or absolutely no lights on!

Try not to get wound up by the brainless. Waste of a thread really as nothing will ever change...

frostbite
22nd Dec 2006, 20:15
Some of them even with interior lights on, and they wonder why they can't see out too well!

tinpis
23rd Dec 2006, 02:56
Can some ozzer explain to me what the low lights are (the ones in lower scoop wank) on hoony Commodores etc?
They dazzle and hoons leave em on when they up yer arse doing swerves side to side to warm up their tyres
ABSOLUTE FARKING WANKERS

(Perth..I blame Perth for most of this carry on)