Special thanks from Wiltshire Constabulary!! [Archive]

wouldubeleaveit

20th Dec 2006, 13:40

It was nice to see the Wiltshire C*ntstabulary, in conjunction with our very own Special PC demonstrate their extreme gratitude at the selfless efforts of all those at the Wiltshire Airbase during 2006 by setting up a 5 day speed camera/ breathalyser special task force to specifically monitor those using our main gate during the early morning rush last week.

More satisfying was to read the proud boast of our Special PC on the base website as the to fact that over 150 of the bases brave folk, many of whom will at some stage in 2006 been in real harms way and spent weeks away from their loved ones, were specifically targeted with over 30 prosecuted for speeding and over 60 cautioned but thankfully no one arrested for drink driving.

Despite the fact that Wiltshire, like every other county in the country will have more than it’s fair share of thieving gypsy pikey barstewards who simply do not tax or insure their vehicles, joy riders, dangerous drivers, Volvo drivers and other vehicular maniacs it’s great to see that brave and selfless folk of the Wiltshire Airbase, who have worked tirelessly in support of Herrick, Telic, Occulas provided much needed earthquake relief and countless other tasks, are actually more of threat to the safety of Wiltshire road users than those I previously mention.

As a final slap in the coupon it was especially pleasing to see that as the station finally closed this lunchtime for the festive period our friends from the Wiltshire C*ntstabulary were again outside the main gate pulling over service folk for random breath checks.

To all the good folk at Lyneham I sincerely wish you all a very merry xmas and a prosperous new year and please fly/work safe in 2007.

To all of Wiltshire’s C*ntstables I sincerely and from the heart of my bottom hope you all develop a rare skin disorder there in no possible cure for!

c-bert

20th Dec 2006, 13:58

Seconded, and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the armpits of jobsworth traffic cops nation wide.

The Swinging Monkey

20th Dec 2006, 14:07

Isn't it bloody sad that at this time of the year, when our thoughts and prayers are with our friends and colleagues in far flung places of the world, the local 'bill' in some areas feel it necessary to target our services?

As you rightly say, if you were some pickey, asylum seeker, or other ethnic minority type who didn't pay taxes, road fund licence, insurance blah, you wouldn't be bothered one jot, but unfortunately you are a law-abiding, tax paying 'soft target' for the plods, and easy prey, who won't tell them to
f*** right off.

Shame on you Wilts constabulary, and I concur with the remark about a nasty disease etc. and shame on the Stn Cdr for not getting on to the chief constable and pointing out a few things to him, and telling them to sod off.

A Very Merry Christmas to all at Wilts Police, I hope you have a really great holiday, wasting our taxes targetting our armed forces (they're the folk that keep YOU safe at night!)

Best wishes to all at Lyneham, Brize and Wilts in general (except those anus boys in Blue)

TSM

Heliringer

20th Dec 2006, 14:17

Easy targets, they dont have the guts to go after Pikeys and people who will take them to court etc. Heroes every one!!
Spelling etc ****'d due to Xmas party..

Co2Capt

20th Dec 2006, 14:20

As far as I know the aim was not to specifically target Service personnel. It was a convenient and highly visible place to base a pretty sensible drink/drive and speeding campaign. It had been advertised to the station, so it shouldn't have been a surprise to any service personnel and if your ignorant enough to speed into work each day or have had a few too many the night before then take the punishment? The speed reduction measures in the village haven't been working and there's a busy school with a lot of kids around the village most of the day.

Get over it !!:ugh:

cyclic gal

20th Dec 2006, 14:25

Too right, nothing gives you the right to flout the speed limit and/or drink and drive, not even those who've served in nasty places, and yes I have.....

dessert_flyer

20th Dec 2006, 14:29

Well they have to meet their government set targets somehow, and after all we have to turn up for court and have to pay our fines, (we have something to lose if we dont), so they get good conviction and a fine paid.
Now if you is one of the stated pikeys, well you aint gonna turn up for court are you, and even if you do you aint gonna pay your fine, i mean, what you got to lose? (you probably dont have a lisence in the first place)

SASless

20th Dec 2006, 14:55

You actually think the Stn Cmdr would tell off the Senior Plod....and have any expectation that would improve things one whit? How would the SC react to the Senior Plod telling him how to run things on his establishment?

The choice of location seems less than well thought out....as I am quite sure there are other locations that would be far more productive in the surrounding area.

However...one must recall..."numbers" is the name of the game for any governmental organization. If the project was well advertised....now who is to blame for getting nicked?

It does seem the Constabulary could focus upon the scofflaws.....or did they?

The Swinging Monkey

20th Dec 2006, 15:14

cyclic gal & Co2Capt,
You are both missing the point. The questions are simple ones, they are:
1. Why set it up outside the base?
2. Why NOT set it up outside your local Pickey centre?

The answers are even simpler.......................
1. 'cos the Forces are easy, non retaliatory, soft targets
2. 'cos the likes of pickeys ARE!

Co2Capt, "As far as I know the aim was not to specifically target Service personnel" Well Sir, maybe you can explain just why the location was chosen then, if not to target the boys and girls from the base? Is there no other 'suitable' sites in Wiltshire other than outside the base?

Helringer and Dessert_flyer hit the nail on the head. They know that if they nick a serviceman or woman, a) they will go to court and b) they will pay their fine. For the police its a result and a tick in the stats box. On the other hand......

'Take on Pickeys Sir? oooh No, we can't do that you know Sir, why, we'd be shovelling the old smelly stuff up that hill, don't you know' Damned police, they make me sick. Shame on them.

TSM

ps. I bet they all still come onto the base to use the mess for a cheap breakfast though, don't they??

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

20th Dec 2006, 15:18

You now certainly have the views of Capt Sensible and the Whirly Bird. The Scuffs would never specifically target Servicemen, least of all the Air Force.

Wait till they are out with cameras to nick you for smoking in your cars!

SET 18

20th Dec 2006, 15:38

Well, they pulled me over, (with no offence having been committed) and I certainly hadn't heard of it happening..

Then again I had been away on a detachment for the preceeding x weeks..!

d192049d

20th Dec 2006, 15:46

Do the crime do the time....no matter what!!

Gainesy

20th Dec 2006, 15:52

as the station finally closed this lunchtime for the festive period

Really? So are the Hercs using Brize or something?

Olly O'Leg

20th Dec 2006, 15:53

I'm well up for making sure that drunk drivers are off the roads, but this "deliberate targetting" happens at quite a few RAF bases around the country (and I'm guessing Navy and Army as well).

I seem to remember (a LONG time ago) at a training base near York (the one now overgrown with weeds) that the Scuffers used to set up a speed camera just down the road from the Main Gate just in time to catch the boys leaving work - there were a few codewords arranged between the aircrew and Air Tragic!

I'm totally against speeding in towns/villages and drink driving but deliberate targetting is bang out of order - surely it must be illegal? :mad:

vecvechookattack

20th Dec 2006, 16:10

It happens to the RN as well but we generally get the buzz around quickly that the ;lod are about. It is not unusual to hear the tannoy blasting out that the plod have established a check point at a particular plave and advising servicemen to chose an alternative route

geezerBJ

20th Dec 2006, 16:13

I don't see what the problem is here. If you don't drink and drive or exceed the speed limit - at peak times through a traffic bottleneck, then you have nothing to worry about. Quite frankly, if this campain saves one life during the festive period then 5 minutes of your valuable time blowing in a bag is worth it.
Lyneham personnel were not the only people to be targetted, it is a National campaign run every year. The police were there for 30 mins in the morning, just because you didn't see them from your office window, doesn't mean the Police do not work the other 23 hours and 30 minutes of the day. These are the same policeman that have to deal with the unpleasant consequences of drink drivers while the rest of us put our feet up for 2 weeks over the Christmas / New Year stand down.
If you have nothing to hide its not a problem.
Grow up.:*

Bladdered

20th Dec 2006, 16:14

matkat

20th Dec 2006, 16:39

At Laarbruch in the early 80's OCA used to invite the German Police on base to monitor speeds - you could really get the revs up between VASS and XV Sqn!! He also gave the RAFP the authority to breathalise on camp too.........................we just bounced his car into the mess one happy hour and removed the wheels......filled his car up with water on another occasion. Despised or what!

If its any consolation wouldubelieveit, the fuzz have targeted other places in North Wilts too, so don't get too paranoid.
Not so sure it was OCA as I left Laarbruch in 1981 and they had been doing the same since I arrived in 1978 if i recall the favourite place was the road from the Sergeants/Officers mess heading down towards the NAAFI wonder where they were when the young SAC was killed by a drunk brit civvie??? 1980 I think?

Fast but Safe

20th Dec 2006, 16:55

Ahh, geezerBJ and a few others seem to be in the 'If you're not with us....you're against us' mould.

Everyone reading this is against the idiot who gets into a car when they can't control it due to excessive alcohol intake (whether straight from a bar or the night before). I think you and others are missing the point though from start of this thread.

The VCP was aimed at people who will pay any fine without fail and take any action against them without any argument. It was also aimed, unfortunately, at a community that in the main, spends much of their time in countries that are populated by people wanting to blow them up.

My main point is that there is no, and I mean NO way this sort of thing would be set up around any minority community because the fuss and shouting that would be kicked up and therefore would make the news. Whereas we just sit and take it.....as usual. The selection of this stop and check exercise kicks any educated member of the armed forces in the teeth....again.

By the way, I won't be enjoying my time at home over xmas and I don't sit in a warm office all day. So geezerBJ and others on his side, you've just shown yourself up as a pretty narrow minded type that says the same thing with more volume when they don't get their own way!

FbS

geezerBJ

20th Dec 2006, 18:05

Narrow minded ? How do you know that other communities haven't been targetted? Were you targetted, if so you would have realised that the officers doing the checking were MOD Police. Which community would you suggest the MOD police more appropriately turn their attention to ?I'm more than happy to have them protecting my family and those of my friends and neighbours in FMQs. Like I said if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. Whilst I am very aware that the forces are working extremely hard at the moment, me included, the excuse sorry officer I spent 3 weeks in Afghanistan in April doen't make you exempt from keeping to the speed limits.

dervish

20th Dec 2006, 18:43

donald stott

20th Dec 2006, 18:59

Gentlemen, I am insensed! What is a pickey? Never heard of one! Correct spelling is Pikey - people who allegedly live in caravans, tend not to pay council tax and have a habit of dumping litter (large orange gas cylinders) on their camp sites (camp sites = council sports grounds usually football pitches).

Rgds

DS

(The oatier the biscuit the better for cheese)

ShyTorque

20th Dec 2006, 19:45

:p Insensed? Someone's not being picky enough about spelling. :p

zedder

20th Dec 2006, 19:51

No. But maybe he is being pikey enough!:ok:

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

20th Dec 2006, 20:20

Fast but safe makes a good observation. If somebody causes an accident while impaired through excessive drink, I agree; "mind your fingers", "coo isn;t it dark in here". Servicemen\Civil Servants\Professional Aviators and similar are easy targets and can be assured to pay up.

I wonder how many of the hang'em-high posters here are;

a . Rozzers

b . Aviators

c . Service

Always a Sapper

20th Dec 2006, 20:22

Too right, nothing gives you the right to flout the speed limit and/or drink and drive, not even those who've served in nasty places, and yes I have.....
Agree totally cyclic... BUT its funny (not) how they manage to regularly hide that cash collecting speed camera van in the village all the time... often at times when the school in question is closed, but at a convenient time for the base either kicking out or people arriving... now add the latest 'road safety' session and you wonder why people think they are being discriminated against.
Camera's only catch speed offences, not Drink/Drugged Driving, Dangerous Driving, Construction/Use Regulation Offences or the hundreds of other offences that the old Traffic Dept used to detect and deal with.
However by linking the camera(s) to the NPC and DVLA Computers further offences such as Insurance, MOT or Road Fund Evasion can be detected. But probably the most important advantage is to be able to detect and to some extent track Vehicles of 'Interest' used by Criminals. But this is only a side use to the original reason for linking cameras with DVLA and that was to help to detect vehicles with no Road Fund Tax and help collect it.
IF the Government, Police Authorities & Safety Camera Partnerships were really interested in reducing accidents and improving the standard of driving on our roads then they would be actively increasing the manning of the Police Traffic Dept's instead of reducing the manning and in some case's actually disbanding them. But as the cameras generate income for little to no cost in comparison … there’s little chance of that is there?
Rant Over.....

WasNaeMe

20th Dec 2006, 20:26

The the state of the nation.....

We, as Brits,......... proud nation that we are ...

Hang BAE without any evidence... (the only Defence Industry this country has left... Like it or not!)...
Then have to target (with or without warning..) serving members of her HMF.... wherever they serve..Proud to serve... that's me..

Vage Rot

20th Dec 2006, 20:55

Just don't invite the Chief Porker to the Burns Supper/Summer Ball/Dining-in night etc, put the local piggery on the low flying turning point list etc etc.

GeeRam

20th Dec 2006, 21:01

I'm showing my age here, but when I served in the (civvy) police our Inspector would have had our nuts if we did what is being suggested here. And my puppy walker, a former Lancaster pilot with a DFC, would have been mortified. Both would have told us to go catch real criminals. I'd say 50% of our Division had served during WW2 and/or Korea. They would sooner have booked their own mothers than those who served. Times change I guess.

Times have changed.......in that what you say above (as was in my late Dad's day when civvy Plod dog handler, virually all his fellow officers were like him ex-WW2/Korea) is still true for the majority of rank and file today....
But like those still serving in green/dark blue/light blue in dangerous places on the demand of our national politcal masters whims and fantasy's, todays Plod senior ranks now happily roll over to their local govt. political masters every whim.......:ugh:

airborne_artist

20th Dec 2006, 22:02

How times change.

My father (born 1934) was a cadet at Dartmouth, entering in 1947. My grandfather was a big-ish fish in the small pond of Bolton. He bought 5 double tickets to the Police Officers' charity dinner each year, but never went. It was however noted that he was a regular and generous donor.

My father (aged sixteen) took to driving (with his mother's consent) his mother's car, . Quite safely, just no licence, no insurance, etc. My grandfather got a phone call from the Chief Inspector, asking him if he would have a word with his son. The word was had, and my father didn't drive again until it was legal to do so.

tezzer

20th Dec 2006, 22:21

Ahh, but they to are guilty on occasion. Sunday night in my local, one of the county's finest was at LEAST 12 pints the worst. His drinking buddies suggested a taxi into the local town, to see if there was any crumpet to be had. "Taxi ?" say's our hero ? "No need for that, I've got my get out of jail free card ", and proceeds to display his warrant card to the assembled.
As it happens, they didn't go to town, ordering a take-away curry instead. That took an hour and an half to arrive, during which time, said c*nstable supped Belgain wife beater at 4 pints/ hour, and on receipt of his curry jumped in his 5 series, and drove the 25 miles back to his house.

Next time, I'm on the phone, and his carreer will be a past tense !

PompeySailor

20th Dec 2006, 22:24

It was nice to see the Wiltshire C*ntstabulary, in conjunction with our very own Special PC ..

Nice to see Wiltshire can spare a Special. I thought they were all out keeping the prostitutes off the streets, or is that just the Suffolk lot?

SVK

20th Dec 2006, 22:33

Whilst I fully agree with the sentiments of 'if you've done nothing wrong then you've nothing to fear,' I can't picture any other large Wiltshire based companies allowing such practises. Imagaine the phone call:

"Good Morning. Is that Wiltshire Constabulary? Ah, good, Honda UK here. Its our final working week before Xmas, lot's of staff parties etc. Would you like to set up camp at our entrance gates and pull our staff over?"

The unions would be all over it like a fat kid on a doughnut.

On_The_Top_Bunk

20th Dec 2006, 23:09

http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/feedback/default.asp#anconline

To report feedback.
We are an easy option and it SUX.

Is it any wonder the RAFP and their counterparts in "civ land" get such a bad rep?

wouldubeleaveit

20th Dec 2006, 23:44

SVK,

"Good Morning. Is that Wiltshire Constabulary? Ah, good, Honda UK here. Its our final working week before Xmas, lot's of staff parties etc. Would you like to set up camp at our entrance gates and pull our staff over?"

Now imagine the more likely conversation........

Good Morning. Is that Wiltshire Constabulary? Ah good OC A/Plod RAF Lyneham here. It's our final working week before xmas, lots of staff parties etc. Would you like to set up camp at our entrance and pull our staff over? On the final stretch now and this sort of crawly bum lick manouver might just get me promoted so please try to ensure you **** all the chaps/chapesses around:ugh:

Call me an old cynic but I am sure the prescence of Old Bill was at the behest of some chisseling blunt fecker on Lyneham's staff:}

Wensleydale

21st Dec 2006, 10:04

30 prosecutions and 60 cautions - sounds like a certain base needed waking up to road safety. I wish the police would speedtrap around my place to catch the t*$$*rs who sit inches from my rear bumber, thinking that the law of the land does not apply to them while I travel at the speed limit. (And I include the RAF police car that did just that on my base last week - it was bad weather so he wasn't out with his own little gun that day).

If you don't break the law then you have nothing to worry about - if you do break the law then you deserve what's coming: there are too many people in this country (service included) who think that the law only applies to other people. Grow Up!!!!!!

Pass-A-Frozo

21st Dec 2006, 10:13

Cyclic...

No-one is saying Defence people are above the law. However in an environment when police consistant argue they are under resourced and don't have enough people on the streets, do you think it to be an effective use of resources. Of course not..

Some join defence to help our nations, serve our nations, and even risk life and limb... others join to :mad: up those that serve. How proud their mothers must be.

Always_broken_in_wilts

21st Dec 2006, 10:13

Hey Cheesy,

I think you are missing the point fella, no one here is arguing about compliance with or enforcement of the law of the land.

But ask yourself, and to all those others who have pro posted on this subject, is it reasonable for said law of the land to sit outside the main gate of a miltary base and deliberately target those within for a whole week in the run up to the festive period? Once or twice maybe but a week, and then to return and randomly bag folks at luchtime on the stations last "normal" working day before the grant...........I leave it up to you to decide if thats fair and reasonable:hmm:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Mr-AEO

21st Dec 2006, 10:17

I don't disagree with your comment - the law should and obviously does apply to us as much as Strawberries. The point in question here is there would appear to be an unequal and unbalanced application of the local constabulary to this secret RAF base in Wiltshire, because they knew it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

It just seems like a money generation exercise to me, rather than a road safety one.

If the plod had the next day set up outside Honda, or heaven forbid, Salisbury police station after their end of year XMAS bash - wouldn't we have had similar results??

Having worked in the blunt end of the Station Exec Offices as another secret base near Yeovilton, I can confirm that the XO used to call the local plod and request such a presence - as a 'duty of care' for his people.:hmm:

Oh - and my final shot. Why do the police get so po-faced about speeding when they get away with driving at ridiculous speeds for 'training' and 'familiarisation' whilst off-duty.

Wensleydale

21st Dec 2006, 10:27

I will admit that it seems unreasonable. I remember that this used to happen just outside Kinloss in the 1980s - in those days of Scottish Law you had to go to court, or write a letter to the court, to plead guilty then pay the fine. Headlines in the Northern Scot would then be "RAF Officer Admits Guilt", or "English serviceman caught breaking law" etc etc.

It seemed harsh, but in those days people were often drink driving and speeding in the area. Where do the Wiltshire Traffic Police go after the shift outside base? You will not be alone. Basically the police target areas of known law breaking and the figures quoted at the beginning of this thread seem to justify the means. Bottom line is - has this made the Base area more safe over X-mas? You bet it has, and perhaps the habitual drinker who usually has a couple at the section do before driving home has been deterred and YOUR child is still safe rather than in a hospital bed or worse. As I said in my original post - I wish the Lincolnshire Police were more active around my village where my children walk home from school and the locals flout the traffic laws with impunity.

Pass-A-Frozo

21st Dec 2006, 10:34

I wish the Lincolnshire Police were more active around my village where my children walk home from school and the locals flout the traffic laws with impunity.

They are probably too busy hanging out front of the local military installation because the base commander wanted to prove he is "looking after his people".

How about the authorities audit the base commanders tax return to ensure he is setting a good example for "his people".

Anyone have any figures on what violent crimes were called in during the "base blitz" and what the response times were????

toddbabe

21st Dec 2006, 10:45

Don't see what all the fuss is about! if your not over the limit or speeding whats the problem?
They target the armed forces because they are a likely target, nearly every section at this time of the year is having a beer call, every mess is having some function, many of these bases are in the country so buses and taxis are hard to use, it's a fact that generally, military personnel like a drink and to unwind, especially at xmas, to ensure that the roads are safe from drink drivers this is as good a place to start as any.
I for one would kill anyone that harmed me or my kids whilst they were over the limit in a car, and therefore have no problem with the police checking or even targeting a likely area.
You are naieve if you don't think the RAF has a drinking culture about it and at at this time of the year it could be only to tempting for someone to jump into their car and drive home, I see it all the time in the local paper " Seviceman Cpl blah blah or sac blah was was fined and banned from driving after being caught boozing".
Get over it.

Pass-A-Frozo

21st Dec 2006, 10:54

Yes and how about you target building sites where workers drink after work. How about XYZ Pty Ltd's work function. If you think the military is worse than the rest of society then something is definately different with British society (which I doubt). If speeding isn't a problem for you then surely you'd have no problem with a police officer following you 24/7 whilst driving, ready to pull you over if you go 1 km/h over the limit.

The argument I've scene here isn't that military people are angels, it's that it's a waste of resources to directly target them. That is a fact. Are you saying military people are common criminals who deserved to be targetted??

I'm guessing you've recently been through rehab. I hope the Elgin "bill" start following you around so that when you lose miss one of those limit signs they'll nab you.

toddbabe

21st Dec 2006, 17:05

pass a, have been caught speeding a few times and have cursed like mad the coppers who have caught me, but at the end of the day if you speed then you takes your chance and if you booze and drive then tough **** for anything you get.
Am not saying that military are crims but simply saying that at this time of year where you have upwards of two thousand people entering and leaving one place often after xmas party's then it's a good bet a few will be drink driving, fact! if they are not then they have a small inconvenience for a few minutes whilst they prove their innocence.
Building sites? what they hang around drinking outside at this time of the year, in the cold and wet! I thought they went to the local boozer, where there is often a row of taxis and the odd bust stop outside!
If the coppers don't catch anyone then they have reinforced the message to nearly two thousand people that they are out there watching.
I would wager that if there was a factory social club with a few hundred blokes finishing for xmas inside then they too would get a bit of extra attention, it's called being proactive.

gar170

21st Dec 2006, 17:46

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

21st Dec 2006, 21:17

if they are not then they have a small inconvenience for a few minutes whilst they prove their innocence...........

I think we have seen all we need!

RileyDove

24th Dec 2006, 18:22

My friend in the U.S has an earned Purple Heart bumper sticker on his truck which seems to help him if he is ever a few miles over the limit with the cops.
They also have real people sat in patrol cars with guns every few miles which also seems to regulate traffic.
Whereas in the U.K the police have quotas to meet in terms of traffic offences - also if you caught drink driving and happen to be from a country for which the local plods have no interpreters you will often be told to park the car and come back when sober.

quitefrequentflyer

25th Dec 2006, 21:50

The guilty always complain. Always!

During my couple of decades service I saw at first hand the heavy drinking culture at RAF stations in UK and overseas. It was disgraceful, once witnessed bars open 24/7 for 4 whole days one Xmas about 2 hours flying time south of Blighty. Sheer madness!

Seen many, many, commissioned and non-commissioned servicemen/women getting prosecuted for drink driving. And also causing death by drink-driving.

Senior officers have much to be ashamed about in sanctioning the drink culture. A few of them have also been prosecuted.

With knowledge of this culture it is prudent of the local police to blitz military camps at appropriate times and take appropriate measures against offenders. Only then, will the right message get out to perpetrators, and hopefully many others will take heed and never ever follow suit like some of their quite stupid fellow servicemen.

Regretably, some armed forces people will be going to jail in the coming years, for the offences discussed here. Some people are beyond educating, they have a bad attitude towards their fellow countrymen, who they could'nt care a hoot about when they have the misfortune to have a close encounter with after drinking but before going driving.

Are YOU one of those who is going to jail?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

26th Dec 2006, 08:09

Not me Padre. I think drinking and driving is silly. You just spill it everywhere and have you seen the price of beer?

Krystal n chips

26th Dec 2006, 08:27

QFF,
And yay, the Divine one has spoken and answered your prayers it seems --in part at least ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6207313.stm

That said, I always felt my contribution to various gliding club bars was a "significant gesture towards inward investment which also resulted in a capital return"-----which means I enjoyed meself ! :ok: :E

SASless

26th Dec 2006, 14:27

Police having quotas is not true.....we were allowed to write as many Summons as we wanted.:E

ATTITUDE is EVERYTHING!

When dealing with the Plod...courtesy and cooperation go a very long way to saving your bacon. If you have done something that is going to get you nicked, maybe not.

But if it is something the Plod has some discretion in.....off you go laddy and be a good boy from now on.:)

Show some "attitude" and as with the wife....it will not go well.:=

mlc

26th Dec 2006, 16:36

Whereas in the U.K the police have quotas to meet in terms of traffic offences - also if you caught drink driving and happen to be from a country for which the local plods have no interpreters you will often be told to park the car and come back when sober.

Errr....no they don't and no they don't!!

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!! You moan when journos do it. :ugh:

doublesix

27th Dec 2006, 14:29

Riley Dove
If you have any proof about your comments please let us see them. Otherwise stop talking b----cks.:* To all our service personnel you have my thanks for the great job you do wherever you are. However, you cannot use it as a reason for not being 'targetted' as you imply. If stopchecks were done outside a hospital, doctors and nurses would be up in arms with justification would they? Or outside a fire station/firemen? As previous posters have stated if you don't speed or drink or drive whats the problem? If you do then accept the consequences.

RileyDove

27th Dec 2006, 22:30

MLC - Since when have I moaned about journalists? I think your confusing me with someone else! As for quotas - information from a serving police officer who used to be a member of the armed forces.

The armed forces have two major wars to fight - do they also need to be alienated on home soil?

Pierre Argh

27th Dec 2006, 22:37

Sorry... after nearly 30yrs in the regular and reserve forces I didn't realise that serving in the armed forces gave you immunity from prosecution, or that combat medals rendered you above the law...

Sorry guys, if you break the speed limit (and yes I've been there done it, got the points) then you are breaking the law and so deserve what coming.

The Swinging Monkey

27th Dec 2006, 22:42

Double 6,

Like so many others, you have completely missed the point here.
People in the forces are, quite rightly, angered at being targetted by the police, because they are regarded by them as a 'soft, easy target'
As you say, the same would and should happen if you targetted others such as doctors, nurses, firemen blah (although I don't ever recall seeing or hearing of any of them being targetted. infact, perhaps you can enlighten us all as to any other group or body of people that are regularly targetted?

The fact is (and it is a sad fact) the police know full well that with servicemen, the fines will get paid, there will be no 'hassle' from them, and the plods will go away 'fat, dumb & happy' with their stats up-to-date.

The question that really needs asking is this: why do the police target the easy option? why NOT target the local gypsy site? Maybe you have the answers and can tell us? If not, then to quote you 'stop talking b----cks'

Kind regards
TSM

RileyDove

27th Dec 2006, 22:58

Swinging Monkey - A direct quote from a policeman when asked why they were not moving some travellers on a few years ago ' they all have a mobile phone to call their lawyer and know the law better than we do'

doublesix

27th Dec 2006, 23:20

TSM.

I assume from your posting that as you say serviceman are 'regularly targetted' that this kind of roadblock is not isolated and goes on regularly outside airbases? Or is it just that you know lots of service personnel who have been done? If it's the latter how would the cops know who was driving before they stopped them. As for knowing you would pay your fines so would the majority of the population. As for targetting the local gypsy site, yes I for one would like to see the good for nothing :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: workshy individuals made to pay their way in society, but unfortunately can't answer for the actions of the Wiltshire Police as to why they are not targetted.

Always a Sapper

28th Dec 2006, 01:31

Wiltshire Plod and the Safety Camera Partnership aka 'Cash Machine in a Van' not overly interested in Lyneham??? Ok then...

Same county, same force area different towns....

Town 'A' (Population recorded in the 2001 Census: 3,983) is on a main road that circumvents Swindon, it has a school, located just off the main road through the town. Kids are either collected by bus and delivered to the school or walk along the main road (narrow pavements) crossing where they either dare or at the single attended crossing point (lollypop person) There are no other crossing points, no traffic lights, no zebra crossings etce. For a pedestrian this is a dangerous section of road.

Most mornings I pass a lot of kids walking to school either on their own or with parents most of whom have toddlers in buggy's all however having to risk the walk alongside a narrow, busy, fast main road each morning, one that carries all types of traffic from farm vehicles, cars, m/cycles up to bus'es and HGV's. This road would without doubt benefit from a 20mph speed limit, rather than the often ignored 30mph limit.

The main road is busy at all times of the day, being a popular 'rat run' especially so during rush hour, it is very restrictive (narrow) in the town centre, and often has traffic that is either speeding or at best driving without due care & attention in the main part of the town. And then you have the school buses....

Town 'B' (Population recorded in the 2001 Census: 5,822) again on a main road, this time a well lit 2 lane well appointed 'A' road. Again the town has a school, however this school is off the main road with the entrance on a fairly quiet (in comparisom) 'B' road. Noticeably though the school is located on the same side of the main road as most of the housing (less people need to cross the road).

The main road is also busy most of the day with steady traffic, however this road/town does have the advantage of a traffic light controlled crossing point. Again the road carries all types of traffic from farm vehicles, cars, m/cycles up to bus'es and HGV's.

I have to admit, while I do pass pedestrians headed towards the school, the numbers are nowhere near that of Town 'A'.

Now you would think both towns deserve the equal attention of 'Plod' re possible traffic offences? And that of the Speed Camera Van to either detect or deter speeding. In fact I would have thought Town 'A' would get far more attention than Town 'B'....

Not so.... I go through both towns on the way to work and back home daily and in over 2 years I have NEVER seen either a Traffic Patrol or Speed Camera Van while going through Town 'A'... Town 'B' on the other hand, often.

So what’s the difference? Why does Lyneham benifit from the attention when Puton seemingly doesent? Well, as a starter Purton doesn’t have a Military Base.... However, Lyneham on the other hand.... DOES!

(Population figures dont include RAF Drawdown in Personnel Numbers post 2001 or New Build Housing in Purton since 2001)

TheInquisitor

28th Dec 2006, 05:01

The question that really needs asking is this: why do the police target the easy option? why NOT target the local gypsy site?

...because the modern Police 'Service' are a bunch of pussies. Time used to be that a copper was willing to risk life and limb whilst fighting crime (clue's in the name!) - nowadays they are sh!t-scared of grazing their knuckles on duty - that's, of course, assuming they have any time to actually BE on duty, given that they seem to spend most of their time worrying about whether or not the've got enough gays and minorities in their ranks, or spending an HOUR lecturing an elderly couple of devout christians that believing homosexuality is a sin is illegal, or arresting an old man for picking wild fruit, or filling in a million forms just because they happened to have stopped somebody non-white, etc etc... They wouldn't have the balls to go sit outside a pikey camp because they'd get 7 shades of sh!t kicked out of them, and be too scared to do anything about it ('elf 'n safety, dontcha know!!) Why risk a few bruises fighting ACTUAL crime, when you can easily bump up your Force's solved crime stats (yes, a speeding ticket that results in the fine being paid DOES count as a 'solved crime', believe it or not!!) and at the same time enrich the Treasury, as well as your friendly local 'Scameraship', at NO risk to yourself?

For all the pro's posting here - please, PLEASE give the patronising and totally transparent 'Road Safety' mantra a rest. We all KNOW it has f**k-all to do with safety - point in case: The CivPork regularly set up speed traps just outside the main gate here - 200 yds AFTER a major accident blackspot. When I enquired of said Porcines why they were not, in fact, pointing their cash-generator the OTHER way, so as to catch / deter drivers (large lorries, in particular) who ignore the 30 sign at the Calne-side entrance to the village and continue to thunder past the camp entrance at 50 or so, straight towards the aforementioned accident blackspot (hence giving it it's name), the glib response was "We nick more people facing this way 'cos they can't see us behind the hedge 'till it's too late!" Furthermore, when the 'Talivan' makes an appearance in the village, it too is INVARIABLY pointing TOWARDS the blackspot, targetting drivers who have already passed it! So DON'T spout your 'road safety' crap here.

The guilty always complain. Always!

During my couple of decades service I saw at first hand the heavy drinking culture at RAF stations in UK and overseas. It was disgraceful, once witnessed bars open 24/7 for 4 whole days one Xmas about 2 hours flying time south of Blighty. Sheer madness!

Seen many, many, commissioned and non-commissioned servicemen/women getting prosecuted for drink driving. And also causing death by drink-driving.

Senior officers have much to be ashamed about in sanctioning the drink culture. A few of them have also been prosecuted.

With knowledge of this culture it is prudent of the local police to blitz military camps at appropriate times and take appropriate measures against offenders. Only then, will the right message get out to perpetrators, and hopefully many others will take heed and never ever follow suit like some of their quite stupid fellow servicemen.

Regretably, some armed forces people will be going to jail in the coming years, for the offences discussed here. Some people are beyond educating, they have a bad attitude towards their fellow countrymen, who they could'nt care a hoot about when they have the misfortune to have a close encounter with after drinking but before going driving.

Are YOU one of those who is going to jail?
Wow! looks like not being invited to all those beer calls has left a bitter taste in your mouth (or not, as the case may be)....were you this much of a knob when you were IN the forces? Might explain a thing or two...

Just one last thing...30 tickets and 60 cautions issued? An AWFUL LOT of people must have been stopped to rack up that amount of profit....sorry, offences detected. And how many caught drink-driving? What, NONE? I guess we in the RAF DON'T have this huge drink-driving problem some seem to think we have after all...

mlc

28th Dec 2006, 06:43

I think the last post must count as the biggest load of drivel I've ever read on this forum.

Since leaving the mob twelve years ago, I have been a Police officer.

Fact 1-speeding offences do not count as 'detected crimes'. They have no bearing on detection figures in any shape or form. (and there are a lot of 'performance targets' just like there is everywhere else)

Fact 2- There are no quotas for traffic offences

Fact 3- Drink drivers are actively targeted and no person will ever be told to 'come back tomorrow'. (The suggestion is akin to the suggestion we have enough AT in the armed forces)

Fact 4- I could tell you about the traveller camp we have recently cleared of individuals involved in serious armed crime (but that would spoil your thunder, wouldn't it)

There is an awful lot wrong with the Police service at the moment, mostly caused by Government interference and targets. The misuse of speed cameras is also something that annoys an awful lot of Officers (in fact one of the camera vans was given a speeding ticket by an officer recently). However, the ignorant rantings typified by that above just demonstrate a juvenile attitude that do our servicemen and women no credit whatsoever.

TheInquisitor

28th Dec 2006, 07:13

Fact 4- I could tell you about the traveller camp we have recently cleared of individuals involved in serious armed crime (but that would spoil your thunder, wouldn't it)
..and for how long were they there, involving themselves in 'serious armed crime', whilst you lot stood outside bases handing out speed tickets? Quite a long time I suspect. How many other areas have to endure the almost daily blight of pikey crime, with you lot doing nothing about it, whilst collecting a speeding ticket on the way to work as well? How many more serious incidents go unattended due to your 'lack of resources', whilst you can still magically find Officers to do work that actually puts money INTO your CC's buget (I define assault and burglary, only 2 examples of something I have had cause to call on you lot for, only to be told that nobody was avaiabe to attend, as serious offences; our '21st Century Police Service' does not).

Fact 1-speeding offences do not count as 'detected crimes'. They have no bearing on detection figures in any shape or form. (and there are a lot of 'performance targets' just like there is everywhere else)

Fact 2- There are no quotas for traffic offences
I see, no "quotas", but there ARE "Performance Targets". To paraphrase Shakespeare: A turd by any other name still smells of s**t.

I agree, MANY of the things wrong with today's Police Force....sorry, 'Service', are down to the Govt and a lack of backbone in your senior ranks. But MANY other things are NOT - You have CONSIDERABLE discreton in how you deal with most offences - particularly motoring offences. How about using a little common sense? You know DAMN WELL that 'Speed' does NOT kill (if it did, the streets would be littered with the bodies of thousands of traffic coppers), but INAPPRORIATE use of speed does. And I suspect you also know damn well just how accident statistics are misrepresented by the police in order to justify the current mode of cash-seeking persecution of motorists who stray just beyond the posted limits (which, incidentally, were set some 40 years ago when most cars could barely reach 70mph downhill and had non-assisted, non ABS drum brakes).

Above all, NOTHING can justify the deliberate targetting of one particular group, know to be guaranteed payers and non-confrontational, especially when NOT ONE of them was found to be driving whilst unfit through alcohol (the supposed justification for the targetting, according to some posting here).

I wonder if you would have the balls to target a particular ethnic minority group on the basis that crime figures in a particular area showed they committed a disproportionate amount of crime to their numbers?

No?....didn't think so....

The Swinging Monkey

28th Dec 2006, 11:49

Double 6,
Military installations have and are regularly targetted by the local cops for the very reasons I have explained. I do know quite a lot of servicemen that have been nicked for speeding and other motoring offences, and I have absolutely no problem with that at all, indeed like many others I have been guilty on a couple of occasions. However, the point in question here is NOT about getting nicked, but about the plods TARGETTING known soft targets such as servicemen. The plods know that they will not get any hassle from a servicemen, they aren't liable to get stabbed or attacked, they won't have some solicitor breathing down their necks within minutes of the incident, and they know the fines will be paid, period. Now if you think that is fair, and is more important than say targetting real criminals, and serious crime I'm afraid you are wrong Sir. If, like me, you think it's wrong, then why are you arguing?
mlc. If you are a copper, then please stop telling porkie pies on this forum, because it is you who is talking drivel. Let me explain:
1. It is a FACT that you are 'required/expected' to catch a 'certain' number of motorists speeding. Why do you keep denying that? It is the truth isn't it?
And as for the nonesence about 'detected crime' what the hell are you on about? As the Inquisitor says, if it looks like a turd and it smells like a turd, the chances are it's a turd!
2. See one above, NOT true is it? Go on, tell us the truth.
3. I have absolutely NO problem at all about you targetting drink drivers, but we all know that you are NOT allowed to target them, because thats illegal isn't it? You can't sit outside a pub and wait for some pi$$ed up lunatic to drive off and kill someone, you have to wait until they commit a 'moving vehicle offence' or something before you can stop them.
4. Go on, please tell us about this gypsy site you have recently cleared, pleeeaaase! How long did it take you to get it cleared? How long after they moved in did you discover it was the base for serious crime? How many did you nick? (or were they let off with a request not to do it again?) Come on, don't hide behind the wall, tell us what our great police force are doing for us.
As for your comment 'There is an awful lot wrong with the Police service at the moment, mostly caused by Government interference and targets. The misuse of speed cameras is also something that annoys an awful lot of Officers (in fact one of the camera vans was given a speeding ticket by an officer recently)' - how long did it take you to work that one out? And as for your mate getting nicked for speeding, tell him not to worry too much. All he has to do is spin the judge some yarn about 'I was just testing the car to see what it would do m'lud' and he will be off it in a flash.
As for my 'ignorant rantings' that 'just demonstrate a juvenile attitude that do our servicemen and women no credit whatsoever' , yeh right, I must have got it seriously wrong then. Listen, let me give you and your colleagues a little bit of advice on behaf of the British people:
STOP PI$$ING ABOUT WITH YOUR SPEED CAMERAS AND TARGETTING SOFT GROUPS SUCH AS OUR ARMED FORCES. TRY SPENDING THE DAY CATCHING REAL, SERIOUS AND VIOLENT CRIMINALS; THE ONES THAT MUG OUR OLD LADIES, BURGLE OUR HOUSES, STEAL OUR CARS, VANDALISE OUR TOWNS AND GENERALLY MAKE OUR LIVES MISERABLE. Once you start doing that, I am sure you will once again regain the respect of the public. Until then, you will be regarded by many as little more that just glorified tax collectors in uniform.
Rant over, and time for another mince pie!!
Kind regards
TSM

nigegilb

28th Dec 2006, 12:35

Whilst you are at it could you also tell us how many Wilts police have been caught speeding in their private vehicles but after they explained they were involved in "off duty" work they were let off, explanation accepted.

airborne_artist

28th Dec 2006, 13:05

As a final slap in the coupon it was especially pleasing to see that as the station finally closed this lunchtime for the festive period our friends from the Wiltshire C*ntstabulary were again outside the main gate pulling over service folk for random breath checks.

Driving when p!ssed is the big no-no, so I'll happily support any police force that can reduce the incidence of drink-related accidents. If that means setting up outside a large place of work that has bars serving booze, then fine. All who drive know the rules, and Service personnel have no special rights on this one.

It might be your son or daughter who is innocently walking/biking/driving home who gets mown down by a drunk driver. A family from my village had to bury their 20 y/o son a week before Christmas after he was run down biking home from work by a drunk.

The Swinging Monkey

29th Dec 2006, 09:06

mlc

You seem to have gone deep and silent old chap......come on now, we need you to 'assist with our investigations' as they say!
Cough up, there's a good chap!
TSM

Anita Bush

29th Dec 2006, 10:53

TSM

Sir, you get my vote. :D

What is your policy for the NHS?

mlc

29th Dec 2006, 12:26

mlc

You seem to have gone deep and silent old chap......come on now, we need you to 'assist with our investigations' as they say!
Cough up, there's a good chap!
TSM

Some of us have to work you know.

I've got nothing more to add. I've told you how it is, however, you have deemed that we are all 'filth' and you know better than I.

All I can add is that it's 12 years since I left the mob. You've just confirmed that recruiting standards have been reduced. They clearly let anyone in these days. :}:rolleyes:

RubiC Cube

29th Dec 2006, 12:49

A few days before Xmas I caught 2 vandals in action. Rang Wiltshire Constabulary and, after listening to recorded message saying how stretched they are because of support to Suffolk Police, I made a report and was told that they would be in touch. Following day I decided to visit Police Station to make personal report and was told they would be in touch again.

They are obviously very stretched and following up minor crime does not pay as well as speeding fines!

speeddial

29th Dec 2006, 12:58

I would believe that the British police hunt down speeding drivers to improve road safety if they actually stopped to talk to speeding motorists to give advice rather than just take their photo.

When driving through the Nevada desert the other month I got stopped by the Highway Patrol for doing 84 on a 70 highway. The cop gave me all the "people don't leave the desert doing your speeds" until I said I was on vacation from England.

As soon as I said that he was Nevada's chief of tourism! "Oh well I'm sorry you feel threatened by other drivers when you stick to the speed limits. Let me find you a driving guide book in my trunk" "Do you need to look at my map? Do you have enough water and gas?" "Although you were driving too fast I'm more concerned about your safety driving through our desert"

Would you ever get that here?

The Swinging Monkey

29th Dec 2006, 14:29

mlc,
I really do have serious doubts about whether you are really a policeman Sir, and I'll tell you why:

Firstly, I don't think in any of my posts I myself have ever refered to you as 'filth' If I have, then please point out where, and I will retract it immediately, but I don't believe I have ever used that term myself. Either way, you are a big boy now, and I am certain you get called far worse than that, so maybe its time to grow up a little eh? 'sticks and stones..............'

Secondly, if your profile is coorect, you were born in '68 and are now 38 years old. You say you left the mob 12 years ago at the age of 26 (...so it didn't last long then?) Now, If you were a real copper, you would have taken the time to look at my profile, and you will see that I'm just a tadge older than you, and I would confirm that I joined the mob in 1971 (you were 3 at the time) so your comment about You've just confirmed that recruiting standards have been reduced. They clearly let anyone in these days. makes you look a little bit silly doesn't it? as I joined significantly earlier than you did, and left a damned site later also! Now I could be mistaken, but I would have expected a real policeman to have checked those quite 'open' facts before making a complete fool of himself with such a silly and incorrect statement.

But why will you not comment further, especially on this matter of clearing out the gypsy camp? Is it classified? Are we not allowed to know the details? Perhaps an understandable reason would help your cause, but to just clam up doesn't do much for me, and I doubt many others.

Anita, I will answer you question about the NHS later, but I'm just off to go flying now (wind permitting)

Kind regards
TSM

ShyTorque

29th Dec 2006, 15:11

mlc,
Anita, I will answer you question about the NHS later, but I'm just off to go flying now (wind permitting)
Kind regards
TSM
Tried Deflatine? It's great for excess wind. Not sure if it's available on the NHS though.
:E
BTW, I sometimes take part in classic trials. This is an off-road sport, the aim of which is to climb muddy or rocky hill sections, not against the clock, using public roads to connect the sections. There is absolutely no benefit to be gained by speeding, in fact the average road speed is calculated to be 30 mph. A motoring conviction within 24 hours of any of these trials means disqualification, even in retrospect. The organisers are obliged to inform the local constabulary of these trials, although their services are never requested; but guess what? Almost every time there is a sneaky speed trap specially set up somewhere along the route to "help us". I've never heard of a trialler getting a ticket for speeding, despite this type of event having taken place since before WW1.

MajorMadMax

29th Dec 2006, 15:24

Pikey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikey) (courtesy of Wikipedia)

And I saw Snatch'd (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208092/) as well! :}

Cheers! M2

Roghead

29th Dec 2006, 15:46

I know I shouldn't join the turkey shoot, but what a load of sanctimonious bulls**t has been, and is still being spoken here. Firstly, mlc, you're "outed" and therefore anything you have to contribute is so suspect it is useless. Well done TSM and the Inquisitor.
I've been out of the military for many years, but have always supported the police and would still like to support them. My son is a copper (albeit in QLD), my kid brother was, many of my friends sons and daughters are also policemen(woman), but I could no more recommend a police career than I could a Commission in the RAF. Why?..... This most appalling Government which interferes with everything which was good in this country until it also reeks of the same depravity of conscience and effectiveness that the Government model has perfected.
As for my 'ignorant rantings' that 'just demonstrate a juvenile attitude that do our servicemen and women no credit whatsoever' , yeah right, I must have got it seriously wrong then. Listen, let me give you and your colleagues a little bit Time used to be that a copper was willing to risk life and limb whilst fighting crime (clue's in the name!) - nowadays they are sh!t-scared of grazing their knuckles on duty - that's, of course, assuming they have any time to actually BE on duty, given that they seem to spend most of their time worrying about whether or not the've got enough gays and minorities in their ranks, or spending an HOUR lecturing an elderly couple of devout christians that believing homosexuality is a sin is illegal, or arresting an old man for picking wild fruit, or filling in a million forms just because they happened to have stopped somebody non-white, etc etc... They wouldn't have the balls to go sit outside a pikey camp because they'd get 7 shades of sh!t kicked out of them, and be too scared to do anything about it of advice on behaf of the British people:
STOP PI$$ING ABOUT WITH YOUR SPEED CAMERAS AND TARGETTING SOFT GROUPS SUCH AS OUR ARMED FORCES. TRY SPENDING THE DAY CATCHING REAL, SERIOUS AND VIOLENT CRIMINALS; THE ONES THAT MUG OUR OLD LADIES, BURGLE OUR HOUSES, STEAL OUR CARS, VANDALISE OUR TOWNS AND GENERALLY MAKE OUR LIVES MISERABLE. Once you start doing that, I am sure you will once again regain the respect of the public. Until then, you will be regarded by many as little more that just glorified tax collectors in uniform
Of course motoring offences apply equally to all motorists.
Time used to be that a copper was willing to risk life and limb whilst fighting crime (clue's in the name!) - nowadays they are sh!t-scared of grazing their knuckles on duty - that's, of course, assuming they have any time to actually BE on duty, given that they seem to spend most of their time worrying about whether or not the've got enough gays and minorities in their ranks, or spending an HOUR lecturing an elderly couple of devout christians that believing homosexuality is a sin is illegal, or arresting an old man for picking wild fruit, or filling in a million forms just because they happened to have stopped somebody non-white, etc etc... They wouldn't have the balls to go sit outside a pikey camp because they'd get 7 shades of sh!t kicked out of them, and be too scared to do anything about it
Maybe not quite the words I would have used but it more than adequately sums up the way more and more people are thinking.
When, and only when we reintroduce the best of yesterdays policing with the best of todays policing (and I do believe that there is much which is better) - promote officers to senior rank who have balls (and I include the girls there)- and tackle crime which the largely law abiding majority want the police to tackle- and get rid of this morally bankrupt Government- then perhaps we will start to support the police again.

chiglet

29th Dec 2006, 15:56

Inquisitor
My son is a Police "Officer". At the moment he is on sick leave after being clobbered by a gang of thugs [His Inspector is also off sick with a broken ankle "won" at the same incident]. I have lost count of the number of shirts he has binned, torn or blood stained [his blood]. He ,and his mates do a difficult and sometimes dangerous job..and then get slagged off by the likes of you :ugh: :mad: :mad:
watp,iktch

ShyTorque

29th Dec 2006, 16:02

Roghead,
Very well put, I totally agree. The police have unfortunately put themselves in an unfortunate position where they are increasingly losing the respect of "middle England". Note that I mean this to refer to the management of the Police, not so much the men and women on the beat, if "on the beat" is actually a relevant term these days.

Not so the government, for they have already long since lost it.

Blakey875

29th Dec 2006, 16:54

Just like to add that just over a year ago the Swindon Police Force abandoned their 4 year old £8m Police Station in West Swindon and moved to a brand new £19.5m Police Station on the Oxon border. One year later, just weeks after the Station was bulldozed and now that crime is rife in the un-Policed West part of town they have bought an old Health Centre to convert to a Nick and manned by a dozen Plods - Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh..... Still it puts them back to only 9 miles from Lyneham!

gar170

29th Dec 2006, 17:21

Last night we had a total of 8 cars with their tyres cut my wifes car had 2 done front and back end result £96 bill.
reported it to the police result nothing did not Evan bother to come out to see if anybody had seen anything.
All we got was a "crime number" Oops sorry new term is "Occurrence Number" which probably explains why the crime figures have gone down as they don't even call it crime any more.
As for the new police station in swindon we had a new one built here in Trowbridge when i went down there this morning it had about 3 transits 5 police cars 3 community support vehicles and 2 civvie desk enquiry staff not one copper in sight. If you ring them you get through to chippenham and they dispatch from Melksham so why Trowbridge needs a station at all is beyond me.
So if their are any Wilts Police on this site maybe somebody can explain the lack of service please.
It is pretty obvious that you are all very good at persecuting the motorist but Crap at looking after them.
at the moment one P****D off wilts rate payer.

mlc

29th Dec 2006, 17:28

Swinger...I don't have to prove anything. I'd gladly meet you at Dartmouth and show you my ugly mug on the wall (although I believe the pics have been removed from the main drag now) I was in Cunningham Division if that means anything to you. I was in long enough, but fortunately met very few aircrew that displayed your arrogance.

I've been a Police officer for twelve years, joined immediately after leaving. If you're ever driving through the Midlands, it would give me great pleasure to meet up!!

You seem to have all the answers, so why should I bother anymore. If you'd read my original post, you would have noticed I said we cleared a site of armed offenders, not we moved the site on. It was an operation that took many months and was eventually featured on TV.

Frankly, I don't give a toss if you believe I'm in the job or not, you could be going flying, or you could be pushing your broom in the street. I don't know and more to the point don't care. I just hope you know more about flying than you do about Policing!

Regarding lack of response. I have four officers to cover 500 square miles. You're quite right to complain, but it's not the response officers fault, just as it's not the squaddies fault that they haven't got tthe equipment they need. I don't think a humble shift officer made the decision to bulldoze a Police HQ!

My Police Hq is bursting at the seams with highly paid civilian 'advisors' and analyst. They all come up with new magic formulae every week. Frontline officers are at their lowest ebb at the moment. Fast track senior officers who have only spent their probation on the frontline, running the Police force like a business, I could go on all night. What holds it together is the few officers who return week in week out, despite the kickings, shootings, stabbings, abuse etc etc! I hold them in high regard and you should too.

Tombstone

29th Dec 2006, 17:52

Although I'm late joining this thread, I have to say that targetting Servicemen stinks unless there is intelligence that indicates an ongoing problem with personnel drink driving.

I very much doubt you will have had any of that MLC, Lyneham is flat out & I'm sure that the vast majority of guys just want to get home after work. The RAF does not have a 'drinking culture' issue.

Your comments on recruiting standards are way off the mark, unless you were referring to the quality of RAFP. They are getting worse by the day!

gar170

29th Dec 2006, 18:00

Up date
Just had a visit frome the police about the damage last night.
asked how many tyres was damaged where was the car parked all of which was told when reported.
Then asked to have a look at the car first thing they looked at was the bloody tax disc.:rolleyes:
Then told that they cant realy do anymore goodnight.
Thanks a Bloody bunch.:ugh:

Fast but Safe

29th Dec 2006, 18:10

mlc. Just tell us where the gypsy camp was so we can be done with it. Otherwise most people will think you've concocted this whole thing up.

Also, why would you go and say something so childish as "If you're ever driving through the Midlands, it would give me great pleasure to meet up!!" ? The exclamation marks at the end obviously mean you'd love to pull him over and book him with something.

FbS

The Swinging Monkey

29th Dec 2006, 18:14

mlc,
Thanks for the reply, but I didn't doubt you were in the mob; I think you will find I actually questioned your position in the police force. Yes, I do know a great deal more about flying than I will ever know about policing, simply because like the rest of the public in this country, I haven't got a clue what the hell the police do MOST of their time (apart from when you're out nicking motorists of course)

I am a pilot (ex RAF) and I don't sweep the streets.

The thing that confuses me, and I know will confuse the rest of the readers of this forum is this:
You say that you have only 4 officers to 500 square miles. I believe you!
You say you haven't enough officers to tackle crime. I believe you!
You (the police) claim you are undermanned. I believe you!
You claim to be underpaid. I kind of believe you!

I have just one question therefore;
If you are so undermanned, to the extent that you (the police) are constantly bleating on about (and I do still believe you!) how can you justify to me and every other member of the public 'wasting' so many of these valuable officers' time spent nicking speeding motorists ALL THE BLOODY TIME?

There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that? If you DO NOT have to meet quotas, why are police officers always available to persecute motorists, but there are never any available to help with our friends above who have and are victims of real crime?

I for one don't believe you can justify it, and its because of that, that you no longer command the respect of the majority of this country's public. I have always respected you guys. I have always been prepared to put myself out to help in any way I can. But not anymore. After you have been burgled 4 or 5 times in a year, and NEVER had a police officer attend to any of them, it does kind of pi$$ you off to see that they are all hiding in the bushes 3 miles down the road leading to a rarther large mushroom base here in Lincs.
You've lost it mate, sorry, but that's it.

Anyway, didn't get to go flying this afternoon - X winds OOL and getting worse!

TSM

knowitall

29th Dec 2006, 18:48

ShyTorque

29th Dec 2006, 19:01

Quote: "I have just one question therefore;
If you are so undermanned, to the extent that you (the police) are constantly bleating on about (and I do still believe you!) how can you justify to me and every other member of the public 'wasting' so many of these valuable officers' time spent nicking speeding motorists ALL THE BLOODY TIME?"
This is the nub of the matter.
I see myself as a generally law abiding, fully paid up tax paying citizen, somwhere in middle England. 18 yrs mil. service, some of it in harms way, resulting in PTS Disorder (no claim made but problems still recurring) followed by a few years flying for the police. Offered direct employment for all of that time then they gave my contract away to someone else and I was out of a job.
The "police contribution" of my council tax went up 26% shortly afterwards. Why? To fund the police pension (documented), which was suddenly massively in debt. My own pension was also massively in debt and yes thanks, you put me out of a job. :*
New job, more pressure. Two speeding tickets, both of which obtained trying to keep my new job, much greater travelling distance. Two household break-ins resulting in non-attendance and "sorry you have been the victim of a crime, and SO sorry we couldn't attend, here is your crime number for your insurance company" letters.
A son, beaten up on the street 150 metres from home for no reason. Police refused to attend. We attended and caught the offender, after a second 999 call they "prioritised" and still chose not to attend. Son facially scarred and traumatised, probably for life. In desperation, unfairly (?) used previous police personal contacts and threatened written complaint, they attended next day, but evidential trail not correctly followed due to time constraints. Not informed of court dates. Our evidence disallowed. Offender let off with a minor fine, a day's pay. Leaving court the offender scoffed and said "It was worth it, I'll do it again".
Don't give me excuses.:*

RileyDove

29th Dec 2006, 19:35

Knowitall - It's worth pointing out that there is a large amount of money spent on accident prevention in Lincolnshire. Included within that is van based speed camera's . The indications that despite all this that the accident rate increases - speed camera's are not making a significant impact on road safety in the county. You could also examine the statistics in that Lincolnshire has a large amount of unlit country roads which by their very nature are more dangerous than A road or motorway travel. Add to that a large migrant population which often travels to work in the early hours or late at night and it's very likely that a single vehicle accident can have major casualties.

wg13_dummy

29th Dec 2006, 19:37

58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western europe not enough for you?

And speed traps would have saved their lives?

If so, any proof?

Bad driving kills, not 7 mph over the limit.

gar170

29th Dec 2006, 19:47

wg13_dummy

29th Dec 2006, 19:55

Lincolnshire has a population a little under a million (only half of them can write their own name though). 58 aint many to be honest. In fact, it's a pretty good number considering the amount of chavved out Escorts and Astras the county has.

Maple 01

29th Dec 2006, 20:02

My Police Hq is bursting at the seams with highly paid civilian 'advisors' and analyst(s). They all come up with new magic formulae every week.

Oops, that will be me then! (apart from the highly paid bit)

In my experience the ‘magic formulae’ usually comes down from central government or Chief Inspectors and above who are trying to make a name for themselves (usually "n0b" according to the PCs). So we'll have periodic blitzes on street drinking/homelessness/begging/drugs/insert pet project here, all well and good, but when the Senior Officer who has been unlucky enough to be sidelined into traffic, is feeling a bit passed over, and wants some recognition/publicity guess what happens?

As an analyst I can say without fear of a kicking from "my" force that they are understaffed and have to work to ‘performance indicators’ – some people would call them targets, some might know them as quotas though they are not actually described as such for obvious reasions.

Most of the skuffers I work alongside have little taste for annoying Joe Public with nif-naf and trivia, they have far too many pikies, thugs and druggies to contend with (and you can bet I won't be using those phrases during my next presentation) when they do many appreciate just how pointless it is in the grand scheme of things but nice safe targets always look better in the figures than another ASBO for a bu@@ered up underclass - trust me on this, but where is the real problem?

Let's assume for a moment that the drink driving lobby have been calmed by my hypothetical chart that shows C2+s (RAF Cpl is a C2) aren’t really the social group that do much DD, it's the errr..... less fortunate Ds and Es. That being the case (and it is) why prowl outside RAF camps? Targeting resources, that's the name of the game, go after the pikies- you'll get the bonus of no MOT/tax/insurance clear-ups too!

Edited to add 58 out of a population of 646,645 (2001 census) is about 0.009% unless the mulled wine has got to me

Tigs2

29th Dec 2006, 20:07

mic
I learnt a lot about policing the other night. During the festive season i was invited to a party. It just so happened to be a house full of coppers. I thought i would forget that and enjoy the evening. The coppers (and i)proceeded to get very pi**ed. I asked to borrow the phone later (no mobile signal) to get a taxi. One of the (very) pi**ed coppers said' Don't worry mate there are loads of us can give you a lift. When i said 'no thanks' and added, 'surely your not driving' he said 'no probs mate, everyone in this county is ours!, now if we were going over the county border its not worth the risk, cause those bas****s over there go out of their way to catch one of us'!! He added, 'but over this side - No-probs (tapping the side of his nose)'!! He offered a lift again, i declined and left. Approximately 8 coppers drove home. I would have put everyone at the party(Pi**-Up), at a level of drunkardness to be three times over the limit - at least.

I learnt a lot about policing that night. Infact it reminded me of what all the RAFP used to get up to on base at Laarbruch back in 82. Yep, i've learnt a lot about policing.mmm!

Exrigger

29th Dec 2006, 22:25

Lincolnshire Road Safety Partnership e-mail exchange:
Me: Can you put in temporary speed cameras in our village to stop the speeders, oh and those red light jumper cameras.
Them: why.
Me: Because a lot of people speed through the village and jump red lights.
Them: We only spend money on speed cameras when there has been 5 or more speed related deaths along a given stretch of road.
Me: Why are the cameras on the A15 and A17 were they are as there has been no speed related deaths at all since speed cameras were introduced were they are sighted. I also pointed out, by their own rules were the speed cameras should of been mounted.
Them: No answer.

The problem with Lincolnshires roads are the idiots (a lot are youngsters), the tractors and as said before the unlit roads. Most accidents around here are not caused by speeding but by driving without due care and attention or impatience.

Lucy Lastic

30th Dec 2006, 00:05

Just on a slightly different point, our local constabulary has proudly announced that it has nailed 140 drunk drivers over the Christmas period. This equates to around 12% of those stopped.

Given that (in theory) they need to have a reason for stopping someone, this would appear to mean that around 88% of accidents/incidents are caused by sober drivers........:}

mlc

30th Dec 2006, 09:21

Tigs, if you know of Police Officers drink driving, then report them with my blessing. I would.

Two from my Division have just been prosecuted and sacked for the same offence and good riddance.

Swinger, I'm assuming you now accept I'm a Police Officer, if so I accept your apology! :}

I have spent nine of my twelve years attending and investigating fatal RTCs. As per my previous reply, there's is a lot of anger amongst rank and file Officers about the misuse of speed cameras, because it provokes the kind of response seen on this forum. Cameras were placed in my town, with no consultation with my unit. They were placed in positions which would generate revenue,no argument there. I could, if asked, have pointed out where they would be a useful tool.

The local 'Safety Camera Partnership' has no connection with us. It's staffed by civilians and has no contact with Police Officers. I give no apology for dealing with someone I see driving dangerously or using a phone. In the last nine months, my shift have given precisely zero,nil,nada tickets for speeding. We're too busy dealing with all the response jobs that we're accused of not attending because we're pissed!!

This is my last word on the matter. Continue enjoying the debate, I'm off to read a more interesting thread.

RobinXe

30th Dec 2006, 10:08

"There is almost always 2 police-manned speed traps that I know of here in Lincolshire. I have no doubt it's the same in Wilts and in the Midlands. Just tell us how you justify that?"
58 dead people on the county's roads this year and one of the worst road accident death rates in western europe not enough for you?
What an apt nickname!!
"Dead people on roads!? Oh noes!! Speed cameras will save them!!"
This is the kind of boll ocks that's being peddled by the government and swallowed by the masses. Speed cameras do not catch drunk drivers, phoner drivers, unregistered/untaxed/uninsured vehicles, inattentive drivers, dangerous drivers, unlicenced drivers, stolen cars, unroadworthy cars, the list goes on. Exceeding the speed limit is not inherently dangerous, any more than obeying it is inherently safe! Excessive speed is dangerous, but an appropriate speed is set by road/weather/traffic conditions, not a red disc at the roadside.
We had one of the better road safety records in Europe, and it was improving at a good rate before the introduction of speed cameras. The improvement has since slowed. Whats the explanation for that?
If you are interested in looking beyond the lies the government are peddling on road safety issues, and educating yourself on ways to make the roads safer that work, and do not criminalise otherwise law-abiding citizens, check out http://www.safespeed.org.uk

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

30th Dec 2006, 13:08

The local 'Safety Camera Partnership' has no connection with us. It's staffed by civilians and has no contact with Police Officers.

That is reassuring as the Military have enough problem at the moment.

niknak

30th Dec 2006, 16:02

This sort of thread usually gets me going because having had a relative killed and another seriously injured by speeding and drunken drivers, I know at first hand the pain it involves.

That said, if all speed camera's were withdrawn tommorrow and we relied on the common sense of everyone on the road, I wonder how we'd get on?
For the majority of the time I think we'd do OK, but we can never account for the actions of a few.

Rather than speed cameras, I'd be in total favour of mandatory life (life means life) sentances for those who kill another as a result of speeding, drinking or by drug abuse. As part of this, drinking should mean ANY alcohol at all as would ANY trace of drugs - no matter how small in either case, speeding would mean the proof that the vehicle involved was travelling at more than 1mph above the speed limit.
Although I am by no means perfect, if we all had to consider the above ,its not difficult to see that all are completely avoidable by consideration for others and we'd pay more attention to our driving skills.

The Swinging Monkey

30th Dec 2006, 18:39

I know you're not going to reply to me, but I know you won't be able to stop yourself reading this thread!

I'm certain that you will have seen from the many postings on this thread that you are pretty much out on a limb here. You are part of a team that has frankly lost its way in life, and the standards, morales and ethos that you had years ago (as an organisation) have been replaced with ones that are weak, pathetic and appalling in many respects. That said, you are to be commended for at least trying to defend it, and I wouldn't expect anything less, but lets face it, things are in a sorry state with our police forces around the country aren't they? Indeed, in the midlands we have drunk-driving police officers, speeding police officers, and there's only 4 of them in 500 square miles - holy sh1t man, what a record!!!

As for your comment on speed cameras 'They were placed in positions which would generate revenue,no argument there' I only hope that someone has the balls to take up your claim with the local MP for that area, because that is disgracful. Claims like that, from a police officer only go to prove what has already been said on this forum and what you have vehemently tried to defend Sir. Shame on you and your fellow officers for not speaking up and doing something about it.

I am really dissapointed however, that you didn't answer my fundamental question concerning the availability of police officers for motorist persecution but little else. I suppose your failure to answer or even respond speaks volumes and confirms to me (and probably countless others) that you CANNOT defend the argument, and you find it easier to retire and 'read a more interesting thread'

Oh dear, how very sad this all is. It just about sums up our police force doesn't it?.... 'sorry everyone, too difficult for me to sort out, so I'm off to read another thread' well done mlc.

knowitall.
Please don't insult the intelligence of those of us here from Lincs. If you knew anything about Lincs at all, then you would know that it is the biggest county in the the country, and without doubt has the worst roads and road system in the UK, be it road size, surface quality, layout whatever. To suggest that speed cameras 'save lives' is nothing short of stupidity. Indeed there is considerable evidence around to suggest that speed cameras actually cause many accidents, because motorists immediately brake sharply when they see one, and others spend too much time looking out for them instead of concentrating on their driving. I have seen a lot of road deaths in Lincs, very few I would suggest are caused by speed.

Night night everyone, especially mlc. Thanks for the invite, but I sha'nt be coming to the midlands - its full of pi$$ed up policemen, driving speed camera vans!! Tooooooo risky!

Regards to all
TSM

splitbrain

30th Dec 2006, 18:49

I have seen a lot of road deaths in Lincs, very few I would suggest are caused by speed.

Agreed, not by speed per-se, however, crashes aren't caused by speed cameras either. Any innaproppriate actions that arise when a driver spots a camera are the fault of the driver alone, although I realise that in a society where people are increasingly unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions it is easier to lay the blame at the door of an inanimate object.

RobinXe

30th Dec 2006, 19:01

...but if they don't make the roads safer, and they cause some people to have inappropriate reactions (whomever is to blame), surely they should go!

shawshank

30th Dec 2006, 19:14

My station recently invited the local police to give driving awareness briefs for which attendance was compulsary to all personnel. The briefs covered all the relevent sections and included pictures/footage which made everyone think that little bit harder about the consequences of dangerous/drunk or inappropriate driving.:D :ok:

Just one point to note though, the copper insisted that there was no reason for Lincolnshire having the highest number of serious or fatal road accidents in the UK (and at one point Europe). We tried pointing out the; long straight country roads, poor lighting, poor road surfaces, tractors and other tediously slow vehicles moving along trunk routes at rush hour, 90 degree bends on unlit country roads, deep drainage ditches, no motorways poor public transport system etc etc etc. He wouldn't have it though. :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

God give me strength.

The Swinging Monkey

30th Dec 2006, 19:17

Split, Yes I would agree, but lets face it, it is a pretty natural reaction, I would suggest, by everyone (almost) who comes across an 'unknown' speed camera. The same goes for when you see a police car on the side of a road. A great many people just hit the brakes.
Even as mlc admits above, speed cameras are there to generate revenue and we should therefore, question the erection and use of such a device that 'contibutes' as a 'hazard' to road users. The number of skid marks at speed camera locations bears out what I mean.
TSM

FormerFlake

30th Dec 2006, 19:31

If the government wanted to stop speeding they could adopt, and slightly modifiy, a system used here in Portugal (the death rate in Portugal is 6 times more than the UK). You have speed cameras conected to traffic lights further down the road. If the camera see you are going to fast it changes the lights to red. Therefore, if you speed you do not gain from it. The only problem with the system over here is there are no traffic light cameras so many people just jump the lights. So add cameras to catch people who jump the red lights and you will have a good system.

Of course that wont make any money though.

splitbrain

30th Dec 2006, 20:00

...but if they don't make the roads safer, and they cause some people to have inappropriate reactions (whomever is to blame), surely they should go!

Indeed, speed cameras have had their day and they've failed to do what they set out to achieve, I'm in no way going to even attempt to mount a defence of the things.
Nonetheless, drivers who fail to observe the presence of a speed camera are, IMHO, equally as unlilkely to spot other hazards as well. As a driving society there seems to be a wholesale agreement that there is often nothing you can do to avoid a crash because things happened 'suddenly'. Well excuse me but thats nonsense, there are nearly always telltale signs that a hazard is upcoming or situation developing; the failure to recognise it lies with drivers who are probably thinking about the XFactor, the footie, whats for tea etc etc and not concentrating or observing anywhere near as far enough ahead as they should be. In fact, drivers often appear to think that there's nothing they can do and that crashes are more a function of the environment than they are failures on the part of drivers, e.g.

Just one point to note though, the copper insisted that there was no reason for Lincolnshire having the highest number of serious or fatal road accidents in the UK (and at one point Europe). We tried pointing out the; long straight country roads, poor lighting, poor road surfaces, tractors and other tediously slow vehicles moving along trunk routes at rush hour, 90 degree bends on unlit country roads, deep drainage ditches, no motorways poor public transport system etc etc etc. He wouldn't have it though. :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

God give me strength.

No offence shawshank btw, it could have been anyone who wrote that, it just happens to fit my point nicely.

But perhaps, when faced with this kind of reasoning, its the coppers who should be going...:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: ;)

Thud_and_Blunder

30th Dec 2006, 20:37

Not a good thread in which to offer my two penn'orth (speaking as a 2-year-Army, 26-year-RAF ex-serviceman who doesn't drink, doesn't have to brake at speed cameras 'cos I don't speed and who has the pleasure/privilege of flying for Constabularies (including Wilts) and Air Ambulance Charities (including Lincs)), but I did grimace when I read Tombstone's:
The RAF does not have a 'drinking culture' issue.
Has anyone else noticed this thread, "Drinking Games" http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254135 just a line or 2 away on the same bulletin board? Ah, the irony.

Shy, very sorry to hear about your family's recent experiences.
Drive safely everyone - please.

TheInquisitor

31st Dec 2006, 01:09

Government statistics for accident causation, taken from 2001:

Inattention 25.8%
Failure to judge other person's path or speed 22.6%
Looked but did not see 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless 18.4%
Failed to look 16.3%
Lack of judgement of own path 13.7%
Excessive speed 12.5%

Within that 12.5% are accidents that occurred under the posted speed limit; remove those from the equation and the figure becomes:

3.7%!!

Ahh....wait, there's more: in a majority of these cases, the drivers were also pissed, on drugs or joyriding in a stolen vehicle - although curiously the DfT won't release any figures for this, making a true reflection of the % of people killed by "exceeding the speed limit" impossible to determine accurately...it WILL be CONSIDERABLY LESS than the already miniscule 3.7%, though.

Anyone care to justify current policy in light of these figures?

Give the "SPEED KILLS" b0ll0x a rest - it's getting tiresome.

Sources: www.safespeed.org.uk ; www.dft.gov.uk

handysnaks

31st Dec 2006, 10:28

I appreciate it doesn't change anything, but at least our fixed speed cameras are easy to see and the mobile speed cameras are clearly marked. Having been the subject of German and Austrian speed traps in the past I can say that they fight dirty using old volkswagen campers or some such thing:p and they take the money there and then.

shawshank

31st Dec 2006, 15:53

Split, I take your point and wholeheartedly agree. But the fact remains that Lincs has a high number of serious or fatal road accidents. If you could offer a reason for this I would like to hear it.

IMHO, human error is the cause of most accidents. Educating drivers and making them face the reality of dangerous/inappropriate driving is the best way to reduce accidents. However, in the majority of cases there are always contributing factors. My point is that Lincs road system has many contributing factors which can catch even the most cautious drivers out. (a simple loss of tration due to a poor road surface isn't an issue until you slide into the 15ft drainage ditch)

Yes a careful driver should observe a hazzard before reaching it but the fact of the matter is we are all prone to human error (some more than others admittedly). But when so many hazzards occur so frequently then the chances of an accident occuring increases.

On the other hand you can never account for the d:mad:head drivers who just won't listen no matter what you tell them. (is it me or do they all drive crap cars that have been heavily modified)

RobinXe

31st Dec 2006, 16:17

Since they already have so many hazards to attend to why would any sane person advocate adding more to the workload with speed cameras?

Bigt

31st Dec 2006, 20:00

Maple 01

31st Dec 2006, 20:27

But this thread isn't about the old holier than thou ‘speed kills’ brigade (If you want that take a trip to Jet Blast and watch BJP defend the indefensible.) or crusades against drunk driving or even the voice of outrage from those who have to sweep up after the event is it? I think you can take it as read that drink-driving = a bad thing

The question here was why did the Police deliberately target a RAF camp for a general motoring crack-down that produced very little in return for their efforts when they know where the real problem drivers are? And if they don't know what the Sam Hill are their analysts doing?

So if all those 'on the inside' can explain the logic of the Wiltshire Constabulary squandering resources on the wrong targets I'd like to hear them.

BTW Still called RTAs on Storm/MA

tittybar

31st Dec 2006, 21:40

You ill informed w**nkers. Stop believing everything you read in the Daily Mail and try and get out more. It helps. What do you know of how the police operate on a day to day basis. Precisely nothing, so why comment?.

Sven Sixtoo

31st Dec 2006, 21:46

Actually, most of us who have owned real property for more than about 5 years have experience of how the police operate day to day.

And we are frequently unimpressed.

Note: Frequently does not mean "mostly" or even "quite a lot of the time". But it does mean "often enough that everybody has noticed".

Which would have my secondary business gone for lack of customer service.

And if I did my day job that badly I'd be grounded if I was lucky, and dead if I wasn't.

Maple 01

31st Dec 2006, 22:07

What do you know of how the police operate on a day-to-day basis?

I'm one of their "highly paid analysts", so I might know something, and I still can’t see why a force would chose to steak-out a RAF camp over one of their own known ‘Chavland estates’ for a driving crackdown other than its an easier target

so why comment?
errrr.........it's a free country and most of the PPRuNers have done their bit to defend freedom of speech?

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

PolSptStaff

31st Dec 2006, 22:17

I am a regular member on here but for reasons which will become obvious I have used a different ID...

The Police force that I work for as support staff has set a target (performance indicator) of 3 detected crimes per officer per week. Detected crimes are basically a solved crime which is notifiable to the Home Office. Driving offences in the main are not notifiable so however many speeding tickets are issued do not count to an officers PI.

As it is difficult to solve a burglary or a bit of criminal damage to a motor vehicle and the 100's of other things that matter to the population, how can they meet their PIs? The following situation shows how......

A young lad is refuse access to a night club as he is 3 sheets gone. He starts swearing at the door staff. They ignore him but PC Copper comes along and says "Stop swearing". The lad continues so they arrest him.
Drunk and disorderly? No - it's not a notifiable crime so won't count towards the detection target.

Section 5 Public Order Act (S5 POA) - Notifiable crime so target is met. The lad is given a Penalty Notice for Disorder which adds £80 to the cost of a night out. The fact that it doesn't actually meet the "points to prove" is not worried about. It's a detection.

So why chase Billy the Burglar when you can get 3 drunks on a Fri / Sat night for S5 POA and meet you target.

There is a town in Somerset that is the most violent place to live according to the number of Violence against the person crimes. The police there issue far more S5 POA PNDs than anywhere else in the region. S5 POA counts as a violence against the person and is in the same category as ABH / GBH.......

One force has already had to pay back most of the PNDs they issued as they have been deemed to have been illegally issued. My advice if one of your section gets a PND for S5.....get a solictor to fight it as most police officers do not seem to know when it should be used.

Another major crime which counts as a detection is seeing someone smoking a joint and issuing them with a Cannabis warning. Notifiable and counts as a detection.

Targets are great when they are used properly.

RileyDove

31st Dec 2006, 22:38

My friend who joined the police post RAF thought he was going to be helping the community and finds himself somewhat disilusioned at the performance indicators you mention

clicker

31st Dec 2006, 23:01

Government statistics for accident Failure to judge other person's path or speed 22.6%
Looked but did not see 19.7%
Behaviour: careless/thoughtless/reckless 18.4%

May I suggest that all three of the above could be affected by speed because misjudgements of another persons speed could be a factor in all of them.

As an example a drunk driver approaching you at high speed, you don't see him at first but when you do its so quick you react, have to serve and end up in a ditch. You didnt speedand you were not drunk. Other driver didnt stop so what factors are recorded as relevant?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

1st Jan 2007, 00:35

So someone out in the bundhu who drinks over the legal limit, then, is a total bandit. He's been to Farnborough, done the course, knows his limitations and compensates accordingly but, when involved with a drugged up, soft drinking young fu**wit, is automatically at fault.

Some of the sanctamonious bollox on here is truly depressing. If you've lost nearest and dearest through cocky fu**wits over the limit then I am truly sorry. If they caused the loss, I agree; hit them. There really is a Towny/not towny divide in play here. I'm standing by for the incoming, with glee.

mlc

1st Jan 2007, 09:44

Doh! Couldn't resist it :E

Hello, you’ve reached the Police Department voice mail. Please pay close attention as we update choices as new and unusual circumstances arrive. Please select from the following options:

To whine about us not doing anything to solve a problem you created: Press 1

To inquire as to whether someone has to die before we do something to fix a problem: Press 2

To report an officer for your perception of bad manners when in reality the officer is trying to keep your neighborhood safe: Press 3

If you’d like us to raise your children: Press 4

If you’d like us to take control of your life due to your chemical dependancy: Press 5

If you’d like us to instantly restore order to a situation that took years to deteriorate: Press 6

To provide a list of officers that you personally know so that we won’t take enforcement action against you: Press 7

To sue us, or tell us that you pay our salary and will have our badges or to proclaim our career is over: Press 8

To whine about a ticket and/or to complain about the many other uses for police other than keeping your dumb ass in line: Press 9

To advise us that the police are taking too long to arrive to sort out a situation that you probably created and to tell us that you could be getting killed, when in reality you wouldn't: press 0

Please note that your call may be monitored to assure proper customer support, and remember, we are here to save your ass, not kiss it. Have a nice day. "

Happy new year! ;)

tucumseh

1st Jan 2007, 12:19

GBZ

“There really is a Towny/not towny divide in play here”.

There is truth in this, and it certainly applies to policing standards. What people look for is consistency in applying the law. Anyone who has the misfortune to attempt to negotiate Tetbury (not a million miles from Wiltshire) knows that it is NOT illegal there to double park on double yellow lines (thus gridlocking the entire town), sail across the pedestrian crossing regardless of pedestrians (or alternatively park on it), stop at any angle on any road to do your make-up and use your mobile (preferably at the same time) and stop at green lights in anticipation of them turning red.

And having seen what the police get up to, the general public naturally copy them.

A few years ago a sharp bodyswerve prevented three joyriders knocking myself and my dog down. Reported it to plod who simply took details, despite me being able to identify a passenger. Ten minutes later, having demolished 5 gardens, the car was abandoned in a sixth. Phoned plod again. The next day they came and stuck a notice on the car saying it had been booked for illegal parking and would be towed if not removed.

Wrote to Chief Constable. Nearly 18 months (!) later a PC arrived at my door. Told me they knew exactly who the offenders were, but that as they lived in the same street as a local policeman they were left alone in case of retribution. Said policeman, and his family, were under orders not to antagonise neds. But what about the ticket the victim got? Up to him to appeal.

The Swinging Monkey

1st Jan 2007, 15:31

mlc,

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist it!
Listen, you have clearly had far too much to drink, so, when you have finished your shift and manage you drive home - take yourself off to bed, and sleep it off, there's a good chap!

Despite all that, I notice you still haven't managed to answer one of my questions. Why is that i wonder??? hmmm?

Silence is golden.
TSM

threepointonefour

1st Jan 2007, 15:50

This post must now be in the PPRuNe all-time Top 10 for number of posts and viewings ...

The whinging from the secret Oxfordshire base is so loud we can hear it in RAF Lincs!

nigegilb

1st Jan 2007, 15:53

mlc, how does a doctor get to speak to a policeman direct about a personal matter such as a medical chit enabling early retirement for a bad back or stress? Or does said doctor simply print the chits out by the hundred to save the bother?:E
Oh and you forgot to add a choice for confessing to swigging from a bottle of mineral water whilst waiting at a red light. I understand Wilts police are hot on that one, use of the chopper and all that.....;)

Happy New Year to everyone :ok:

RobinXe

1st Jan 2007, 16:16

I am a ex member of the Royal Air Force, I now work closely with the police on the motorways and A roads. In fact you could say that `I PICK UP THE PIECES` after the event.

Drink and excessive speed are the 2 highest causes of RTCs - road traffic collisions - the term RTA - road traffic accident - is no longer used - because they aint accidents.

If you had seen the carnage after a drink/driver decided to drive for 2 miles the wrong way on a motorway some of the opinions posted on here may be different. It is very hard to explain to a family the visitors they were expecting for the xmas holiday are now in hospital because of a pisshead

None of the police officers I have contact with have quotas or targets for the issueing of tickets - they dont go looking for the offenders - they are there in front of them.....

If you feel the need to drink and drive - do us all a favour - make sure you are the one in the body bag

Noone is defending drink driving, you'll also notice that no drink drivers were found during the feds' operation against RAF personnel.

Drink and excessive speed are the 2 highest causes of RTCs

Not according to DfT figures, could you please post your source for this claim.

The fact of the matter is, if the plod decided to target drivers leaving a mosque car park during Eid, they would be before an equality commission so fast their heads would spin!

Pierre Argh

1st Jan 2007, 16:48

Sorry couldn't resist the chance to lighten things up a bit... Drink and excessive speed are the 2 highest causes of RTCs ... I read somewhere that more people die from off road alcohol related illness than die from drink/driving; and that more deaths each year on the road do NOT involve drink than those which do...

Which seems to suggest, that if you like a drink do it whilst driving?

Only joking, I'm only joking!... what has this all to do with Military Aircrew, Professional Pilots (who one assumes know about drink/flying regs?), and drawing attention to this isn't matter, surely, casting the best light onto the RAF?

Terry K Rumble

1st Jan 2007, 16:58

mlc,

I wonder if you could give me a bit of advice please?
A neighbour of mine drives fuel tankers for a living. He drives along the A15 daily, between Immingham (I think) and Lincoln, and as such knows the A15 'like the back of his hand'.

On New Years eve, he was in his car returning to Scampton from Lincoln. He was travelling northbound on the A15 at 50mph which is the speed limit. The A15 is frankly a dreadful road; poor quality surface (non existant in some places) poor lighting, 50mph limit, blind summits etc. He was then overtaken by 'two ******* lunatics in a Subaru' 9his words) travelling far in excess of the 50mph limit. As they overtook him, he gave them a gesture indicating they were wankers (inappropriate I know, but hey, we've all done it or at least thought it)

Imagine his surprise when a couple of miles further on, he is stopped and pulled over by the 'two lunatics' who turn out to be police officers in an unmarked Subaru!!

He was immediately breathalised on the pretence of 'we're breathalising everyone we stop Sir' This of course was negative (it was mid afternoon) and so they continued round his car checking tax disc, insurance, mot blah. Eventually he was caught and was 'done' for a defective number plate light (or something like that)

Now of course, it could be said that he was just an unfortunate motorist who was picked out at random for a 'routine check' by the police, but I think we all know that it was because of his hand gesture that our friendly policemen decided to pull him.

So, bearing all this in mind, and the fact that the police were breaking the law when they overtook him, what do you suggest he does?

a. Complain to the Chief Constable about the police driver breaking the law? or.......
b. Just pay the fine and put it down to experience?

The sad thing is, here we have a professional driver, minding his own business causing no one any bother at all. He sees what he considers (quite correctly) a stupid and dangerous manouvre by another motorist, and gestures so to him, and then finds himself nicked. Sadly, you (the police force) have now 'lost' another one of the good guys. As he said to me 'Terry, they can go **** themselves from now on. I will never ever offer to help them ever again, they've blown it'

I would be interested in your comments mlc.

Happy new year everyone and please drive safely, especially on the A15!
TKR

The Swinging Monkey

1st Jan 2007, 17:21

Yes, and therebye lies the biggest problem for our police forces in general. So many people like this chap will now stop being one of the good guys and just say '**** it' it is simply not worth it. Most of his family and several of his friends will be of the same opinion, and before you know it, soon, there will be very few who support the police at all.

Oh I'm looking forward to mlc arguing this one away! Hurry up now old boy, don't keep us waiting too long! we're all waiting!

Kind regards
TSM

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 17:41

The fact of the matter is, if the plod decided to target drivers leaving a mosque car park during Eid, they would be before an equality commission so fast their heads would spin!

Absolute cracker :rolleyes: Because of course muslims are well known for enjoying a bevy whilst praying. I'm surprised most of them can stand up let alone drive when they leave the mosque.:ugh: :ugh:

SirToppamHat

1st Jan 2007, 17:50

Father-in-Law did his full time in the Met Pol and has been armed, Class 1 Driver etc etc, and even he is fed-up with some of the things that are going on in the name of efficient policing. He has read this thread and been unsurprised at many of the comments. Two points he has made in the past which seem relevant here:

1. The Law is sometimes an ass but it must be applied fairly and seen to be applied fairly. That means that one man has as much a chance of being caught (or getting away with it!) as the next. The line between victimization and targeting is fine indeed. He is also of the view that the removal of 'Stop-and-Search' as a routine policing tool was a huge mistake and has cost lives.

2. The Police Service can only police with the cooperation and support of the general public. Without that support, they will simply not be able to carry-out their duties effectively or even at all.

As for Terry's comments, you are spot-on about the A15; we both know it well. Personally, I would have reported them to their own Chief Constable for dangerous driving ...

STH

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 17:50

mlc, give up mate, its a case of casting pearls before swine.

Last night most of us were with our families and /or generally having a good time. A lot of coppers were out working and generally trying to stop us from hurting or killing ourselves and each other. They have to do this 24/7/365. For that they have my respect and thanks.

Yes there are bad coppers out there, just like there are numpties in every line of work. You cannot tar all with the same brush. Time to give this stupid debate a rest and move on.

happy new year folks.

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 17:51

BEagle

1st Jan 2007, 18:14

What a load of cock!

Anyone stupid enough to drive over the limit or to speed through the village outside the camp deserves to get caught.

What is exactly is your moan? Because if you're within the law, you have nothing to worry about.

Methinks too many folk do protest too much.

Mind how you go.......

PolSptStaff

1st Jan 2007, 18:16

If you are stopped for speeding or a similar matter - then that is what the police can "talk" to you about. If they then start to check your vehicle over that is a different matter and is akin to fishing for something to do you with.

I was told by my instructor who was a traffic officer for many years, that in a situation like the one Terry posted, you can ask for a deferred inspection of your vehicle. As long as there is nothing dangerous about your vehicle - bald tyres etc - then the police have to give you 7 days notice of when they will inspect the vehicle.

That gives you time to make sure there are no defects..........or make sure the inspection is carried out on your drive (private property so not an offence to have a defective light!! :E )

mlc

1st Jan 2007, 18:18

Swinger, I try never to make my posts personal. However, you are clearly a bitter and twisted old man. Hope you enjoyed last night (I was working for most of it).

I did indeed manage to drive home with my G+T in one hand and my speed gun in the other, wearing my fake Police uniform. I bet you were stood at the bar telling everybody how it is. At least you've made me smile a few times.

Be a good chap now and go back to the old folks home. I hear they can do wonders for dementia now. :ok:

RobinXe

1st Jan 2007, 18:44

Cheers for that ABIW, saved me the bother!

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 18:58

ma..............Are you sugesting that said muslims also never exceed the posted speed limit, avoid taxing/insuring their vehicles, have dodgy tyres etc etc..........perhaps a little more thought is required before your next post young man:rolleyes:

Abiw, apologies if I've misread, I thought the original post referred to Wiltshire police setting up a Breathalyser unit outside the airbase (muslims who go to a mosque would not drink alcohol).

RobinXe, its still a pathetic comparison to make. Why not complain about the lack of police checkpoints outside churches or synagogues ?

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 19:02

Not usually one to question such a venerable character but I went back and re read the opening post on this thread and have to say Beag's that you, like so many others seem to have missed the point completely.

It's only my interpretation but I could not see any suggestion that those at Lyneham should be immune to scrutiny or prosecution, I am sure the only question being asked was why the Wilstshire Police Force felt the need to spend 5 days targetting those based at Lyneham, which as of yet is still unanswered.

I have been at Lyneham since 97 and am not aware of a series of vehicular transgressions so like wouldubelieveit I am confused what the good folks from within the wire had done to warrant this sort of treatment.........just my humble thoughts sire....................doffs cap:)

RobinXe

1st Jan 2007, 19:12

RobinXe, its still a pathetic comparison to make. Why not complain about the lack of police checkpoints outside churches or synagogues ?

THATS EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!

Yes my comparison was regarding the speed cameras, and any other random stopping for a poke around with a view to finding something to prosecute. I am, of course, aware that Muslims are not supposed to drink :hmm:

The point you have clearly missed is that targeting an individual demographic, without any evidence that transgressions are more common amongst them, is unacceptable. Even with such evidence, applying a blanket approach would still be wrong. To continue the analogy that you are clearly so uncomfortable with: most suicide bombers these day are Muslims; that does not mean that the police could set up shop outside a mosque and search everyone for bombs!!

By targeting the forces the police are picking on a demographic made up largely of white, straight, middle class males, the 'majority' that are made to feel so guilty for that. We are also a bunch who are largely respectful of the law. Thus they are likely to find little opposition to boosting their figures. On which subject its important to note, that whilst traffic stops may not count towards quotas (do vehicle defects count as detected infractions?) they do count towards the figures the police forces are able to trump up to show us what a good job they are supposedly doing!

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 20:12

Most suicide bombers these day are Muslims; that does not mean that the police could set up shop outside a mosque and search everyone for bombs!!

Wouldn't complain about this at all. Makes a lot of sense to me. If that is where the offence is most likely to occur then that is where police resources should be concentrated. The same applies to every other offence.

I am sure the only question being asked was why the Wilstshire Police Force felt the need to spend 5 days targetting those based at Lyneham

Fair question but at the end of the day that decision lies with Wiltshire Police. Let's face it, one of their many tasks is to cut down on drink driving, how they choose to achieve that is their job.

The Swinging Monkey

1st Jan 2007, 20:14

Ah mlc,

Good to see you back old man, and with personal insults too eh? Good to see the British police force at its very best, resorting to tactics like that. Still, 'sticks and stones blah', as I said earlier I think.

Now then, last night...oh yes, sorry, but your wrong yet again, I was actually flying a jet back from warsaw to Luton until about 10.15pm and then a 3 hour drive up the M1 and A46 to Lincoln. Not too many police about, so a pretty good trip. Mind, I did have a few glasses of Grouse when I got back home(and not the old folks home either, thank you!!)

So, where do you stand on the point made by Terry Rumble then? I notice that you have failed to answer him also, or even give him the advice he requested. Why is that? Don't you have an opinion? Surely you must have one. Why is it that you never seem to answer anyones questions or address their points directed towards you? Too difficult maybe? Anyway, I'm pleased you had a good shift last night and got home safely with your drink and speed weapon. How many speeders did you nab? I wish you had stood by your earlier posting - the one about having nothing else to say on the matter!

BEagle, methinks you have been partaking too much of the amber fluid. This isn't a thread about speeding et al, it's about the police putting all their efforts and resources into soft targetting to get their stats up ie Lyneham, instead of real criminals. Did you read the first page old boy??

Regards
TSM

RobinXe

1st Jan 2007, 20:25

Wouldn't complain about this at all. Makes a lot of sense to me. If that is where the offence is most likely to occur then that is where police resources should be concentrated. The same applies to every other offence.

So what you're saying is that concentrating police resources in targeting forces personnel specifically is a waste of police resources, since they do not have a higher-than-average offence rate.

Glad to see you've come around, in part at least! :ouch:

Terry K Rumble

1st Jan 2007, 21:33

mlc,
Do I take it that you will not be replying to my post?

I am not seeking to score points, I would just be interested in your opinion, as a police officer, and what you would suggest my friend does.

Yours Aye
TKR

mlc

1st Jan 2007, 21:56

Terry, wasn't ignoring you. In short I wasn't there so can't comment. Nor am I going to get into answering for every complaint in the country. If your friend feels aggrieved then complain. All forces have very large 'Professional standards' depts these days. All ready to jump on any officer deemed to have insulted various segments of society.

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 22:03

Ah,
You can't comment on Terry's tale but you can be so vociferous with regards to so many other posts, I wonder why that is:ugh:

Like so many I lost faith with you lot a couple of years back to the point where I now believe that 999 is a wasted call:rolleyes:

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 22:06

So what you're saying is that concentrating police resources in targeting forces personnel specifically is a waste of police resources, since they do not have a higher-than-average offence rate.

Nope. What I said was Wiltshire Police should decide how they target their resources in order to do the job they are supposed to do.

In this instance it appears that police were looking specifically at drink driving and speeding. Can you suggest which particular group has a "higher than average" rate of committing these offences and therefore who the police should be targetting ?

mlc

1st Jan 2007, 22:09

Good for you Wilts!! Will you answer every misdeed committed by someone at the MOD?

Can I give you a ring when the Meldrew in my road complains about every low flying aircraft? Give Swinger a call, you could start a club.

That really is my final word. Honest. :)

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 22:11

Ma,

Are you seriously suggesting the Military has a higher than average record in the cases you suggest, cos in my 32 years service I know of way more civvies who have transgressed in this fashion than service counterparts............or were you just hurridly back peddling:ugh:

RobinXe

1st Jan 2007, 22:16

Nope. What I said was Wiltshire Police should decide how they target their resources in order to do the job they are supposed to do.

Nope. What you said was

If that is where the offence is most likely to occur then that is where police resources should be concentrated. The same applies to every other offence.

So which is it?

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 22:23

"That really is my final word. Honest."

Bet it's not:ugh:

Correction to a previous post to say I would use 999 to summon the 2 services that still deliver:ok:

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 22:24

Ma,

Are you seriously suggesting the Military has a higher than average record in the cases you suggest,

ABIW, not suggesting that at all. What I was trying to get at is, as far as I know, no specific group or demographic has a higher than average rate of committing drink driving or speeding offences. So which group should the Police be targetting ?

it is the Police's job to tackle drink driving, speeding, or any other crime. They have a finite number of resources. It is their job to allocate those resources as they see fit.

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 22:30

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 22:33

Nope. What you said was

So which is it?

Both! ( Those two quotes aren't mutually exclusive) :) :ugh:

Wiltshire Police should make a judgement as to where the offence is most likely to occur. They then target their resources to do the job they are supposed to do.

Twopack

1st Jan 2007, 22:40

Gents , this has become a pathetic ''you said this but...'' type of argument.. It has ceased to be either interesting or relevant to military flying; even the 'coppers at Lyn' discussion disappeared a long time ago.

Suggest you take your trivial, non-flying related bullsh1t elsewhere. And before anybody says it, yes I know I don't have to read it, but I find it embarrassing on a military-related public bulletin board. :oh:

ma109

1st Jan 2007, 22:41

Reverse gear well and truely engaged now:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by ma109

"If that is where the offence is most likely to occur then that is where police resources should be concentrated. The same applies to every other offence."

As I cannot remember in my 9 years at Lyneham the main gate being an accident black spot or a regular source of drink driving offences please explain what you mean with the above statement:rolleyes:

ABIW, the quote above relates specifically to a comment by RobinXe about suicide bombers and mosques. Now where do you suggest the police go when they are looking for drunk drivers or speeding drivers ?

Always_broken_in_wilts

1st Jan 2007, 22:50

Ma,

Still in reverse I see:rolleyes:

You said

" "If that is where the offence is most likely to occur then that is where police resources should be concentrated. The same applies to every OTHER offence."

I said

"As I cannot remember in my 9 years at Lyneham the main gate being an accident black spot or a regular source of drink driving offences please explain what you mean with the above statement"

So go on fella please explain how you think the police are right here:rolleyes:

Terry K Rumble

2nd Jan 2007, 07:12

mlc,
I am a bit disapointed that you have declined to give me the advice I requested, and I am not completely sure about your reasons. You are a police officer and yet you won't give a member of the public a bit of help with a situation because 'I wasn't there' I wasn't there either, but I would still be prepared to at least comment or offer advice if I could.

This has done your cause no good whatsoever. I explained to you the circumstances, and that I was not out to score points, and yet you appear to be taking the easy option of ignoring my request. That seems to be what many on this forum are telling you; that when they need or request assisstance from a police officer, its just not forthcoming.

I shall pass on your comments to my neighbour, but I think it will only compound what he feels towards you as an organisation, and strengthen other peoples perception also.

Thank you for taking the time to at least read my request.
Yours Aye
TKR

The Swinging Monkey

2nd Jan 2007, 07:35

Ha Ha mlc,
What a complete plonker you now look!
A guy posts a perfectly legitimate question to a policemen that has had quite a lot to say on the matter, and you suddenly 'clam up' and go back into your 'sorry, can't help you' shell. How spineless is that then? Why won't you help him? Why do you suddenly not have an opinion then?

If someone asked me for a professional opinion about flying, then I would certainly give it, irrespective of whether I was there or not. If I was asked a question that I didn't know the answer to, then I would at least offer advice on where to find that advice.

But NOT dear old Mr Plod.
Its all toooooooo difficult for him and, lets face it, theres no money at the end of it is there?

You are a disgrace mlc, you have again shown your true colours and I am delighted that you will not be posting (again) on this forum although I somehow doubt that. This forum is for PROFESSIONAL aviators, and you are neither an aviator nor a professional, so get back to hiding in your local bushes, with your speed gun and leave us alone. Knob!

Kind regards to all
TSM

Terry, I would advise your friend to seek the services of a good lawyer and take the drivers to task.