EK payrise - finally?

[birdieonfirst]

Have heard from several sources the last few days that management "announced" a payrise in the neighbourhood of 10 - 15% in january at an instructors meeting a few days ago. Anyone??

- About bloody time if you ask me!
- Not even close to enough to stop the flow of people leaving or help us 3yr+ guys that look to be delayed for appx a year before we can enjoy captains pay on the Airbus fleet. That alone costs me some Dhs 100.000.-

:hmm: Birdieonfirst

[BIKKERDENNAH]

PAYRISE!!!

10 to 15 percent!!

NO CHANCE :=

More chance of hell freezing over!

Forget this JAN payrise crap!! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN!!:ugh:

Once a bunch of tight wads always a bunch of tight wads!!:E

[Fart Master]

Personally I think it's just false rumours put out by certain people to keep people hanging on for a little while longer

[GoreTex]

it's the annual xmas rumour, I hear it every year

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Nope, this was told at a training meeting on Monday, believe it or not!!! :suspect: By the head of training, HAH.

But i'll believe it when i see it in my pay cheque.

SyB :zzz:

[Vorsicht]

Unless it comes from Idle or above, then its only rumor. Head of training, although connected has zip influence over pay.

Personally i have seen it all before, the rumor, promise of better things to come, string as many as possible along for a few months then announce 5% plus increment in May.

V

[birdieonfirst]

Why can't you guys indulge me for once? Let me live in the hope anyway! (Nothing else good seem to be happening anyway...)

;) Birdieonfirst

[Bangkok Layover]

Fellas....Relax!

Its true....EK is increasing salaries by 30 per cent in 2007!

[ekpilot]

No, not quite 30%.

Base salary levels for all pilot grades will be increased by 27%, wef from 1st January 2007. The overnight allowances will be recalculated utilising an hourly duty rate, rather than calculated in local currencies. The housing / utilities allowance will increase by 10% effective July. The annual pay review will include another 3% (27+3=30, hence the 30% rumour)

[flareflyer]

EkPilots,
what kind of tabacco di you use in your shisha tonight? and more important where did you find it? Maybe some is still available for me.....................:D :}

[my salami]

No, not quite 30%.

Base salary levels for all pilot grades will be increased by 27%, wef from 1st January 2007. The overnight allowances will be recalculated utilising an hourly duty rate, rather than calculated in local currencies. The housing / utilities allowance will increase by 10% effective July. The annual pay review will include another 3% (27+3=30, hence the 30% rumour)

And BTW tell your pusher that the stuff is giving you is very good:}

[birdieonfirst]

Yeah - right...

Nice to see, someone still believes in Santa. 30% - my foot:D

:} Birdieonfirst

[BigGeordie]

If this was going to be effective 1st Jan wouldn't they have announced it by now? Then again, if they can't even get the rosters out on time...

[Tail Rota]

Hi Guys

A very merry xmas and a very safe new year to you all:cool: ....... and for those that dont believe in Santa := .....surely he must be real if we get a 27% payrise this year.

guys.....sorry to dissapoint you all.... but Santa doesnt live in the North pole with millions of Elves....nor does he work for EK.:E

He stopped coming to my place when I was about 7 or 8 yrs old

Off to the beach fellas ...... for my xmas and new year break.

Be Safe

TR:ok:

[goatherd]

Off the pay issue, if you a 3 year airbus f/o and you think you are going to wait another year for an upgrade you must have failed math....look at the numbers and start thinking of 2 years extra:*

[Fart Master]

Goatherd, please explain as you seem to have insider knowledge. Have you considered all the AB captains (42) that are going over to the cripple 7, plus the ones that are leaving ( I think 5 or 6 in Jan alone)

[kingoftheslipstream]

:ugh: ... I hope none of you rumour mongers are sidetracked at the CBC for a random drug test... :rolleyes:

[montencee]

Eight Captains showing on the resignation list for Jan.

Mostly Airbus, but across the board including long termers, recent upgrades and DECs. All now deciding that EK is not for them.

[my salami]

Eight Captains showing on the resignation list for Jan.

Mostly Airbus, but across the board including long termers, recent upgrades and DECs. All now deciding that EK is not for them.

Just wait till the 30% increase comes out and they will all withdraw the resignations..:}

[birdieonfirst]

Finally got an answer from the horses mouth (He he h..ED...)
It's not 30% but 0,30% pay increase. Glad we got that settled once and for all...:rolleyes:

:} Birdieonfirst

[GoreTex]

as I said before it's the annual rumour, why to hell dumbasses like birdie make the up, I have no idea, guess too much radiation down under.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Listen guys there is NO 30 percent payrise this year!!

Now if there was well this would just be a warning of pending income tax implementation at say 15 to 20 percent! giving you a net 10 percent pay rise.They do not give money away for nuthn you know!!:ugh:

FORGET this JAN payrise fantasy!!:rolleyes:

[Check 'Six']

Well! They are going to have to do some "magic'' to first of all keep more pilots from leaving. This is now more of a priority than recruiting, because they are out of time!! Plain and simple.:D

The time it takes to recruit, train and pass someone on the line is approx. 6 months.

And 30%? That is for chewing gum money!! Anything less than 50% is too little. Plain and simple.

Retain your pilots Emirates! And in turn, we all know at least 3 pilots each somewhere on this planet, that we can convince to apply.

Happy Holidays

And Yes, Keep Recovering.

As usual, Check Six:cool:

[chinawladi]

Bad idea to mention it, chk6. They might come up to give the 30% annually only provided you convince (or better convict) 3 friends to join. You'll lose your friends and the next year you'll be back to square one .....

[Check 'Six']

Good point.

Whereas at the moment and for a very long time now, every enquiry I get from any friends and colleagues about joining? I manage to talk them out of it.

Let's wait and see?

Check Six

[Trashed Aviator]

Dragon Air will pay nearly 75% more to work for them and Korean close to 50% more and in a basing.
The Outflow valve will stay fully open.

[Marooned]

Agreed TA. Any action, if any, will be far too late for those already gone and those in transit. It's really too little too late.

It was a bit rich of TC to blame Airbus for stunting EKs growth when the real problem is the pilots to fly them.

Anyway, even if the 380 was on time where would it have parked? The terminal isn't ready and the couple of stands that are ready wouldn't have coped...

If you look at the resignations so far they mainly come from those countries hit hardest by the demise of the $. Any attempt at retaining those left needs to focus on a credible exchange rate system that actually protects and one that is link to the provident fund. Without this any pay rise would erode away as before and mainly benefit those from $ based countries.

[Gulf News]

Instead of a payrise I think the manpower solution will go something like this. In fact in fact I think it already has already has.
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2030543061226.gif

[777SandMan]

Oh no! - Not more money in my pocket! :confused: I have a constant battle to spend all my money before I am paid again. Diet might include some meat if the pay increase rumour is true!

[L1011]

Marooned said - It was a bit rich of TC to blame Airbus
AAAh but that is typically EK isn't it? :8 Always find someone else to blame - never, ever accept that your own incompetence and myopia is the real cause.
Dilbert's pointy-haired boss would be proud.

[montencee]

Just wait till the 30% increase comes out and they will all withdraw the resignations..:}

And guess what, the RG club on the portal for January has reduced to just one member.

So what happened to the other eight?
Have they collectively withdrawn their resignations?
Is this an outbreak of improving morale?

Or is this just the old management trick of hiding the truth to save EKs face?

[birdieonfirst]

You guys... You crack me up. I guess this all points to two facts:
1) Pilots are like whinging women - gossiping it what we do best! We can't wait to jump on and spread ANY rumor that comes along.
2) Things in EK are so bad now that guys (and gals!) have competely lost their sense of humor...
The 0,30% thing was actually a joke. The rest however was a confirmed, class A rumor. Not only that. At the training meeting ED openly admitted their problems and confirmed the management team has come up with a four pronged solution to alleviate the immediate problem of people leaving:
1) Increased remuneration to trainers
2) Substantially increased pay. No ammount or percentage mentioned. However comments about the "normal" 2-3% we get in May was declined. This time it would be substantial.
3) Availability to use jump seats again. They have realized people want to commute.
4) A look into basings. This is a political issue that will take some time to evaluate.
These points have been evaluated with the management team in Flt Ops and put forward to top management, awaiting a quick response. (Yes I know...) However AAR is in on this, and it's to be evaluated above him at present.
Guys, let's sit back and wait this one out for a little while. It will not happen Jan 1st, but it is probably not far away. Don't think I am referring from the meeting per se, but this comes from several of our top trainers that was actually there. I competely trust these fellows and don't mean to spread unsubstantiated rumors. These are facts as they have been delivered by ED at the meeting in an uncandid way.
I for one hope they have been able to put their case forward to TC and the board in such a way that they have finally realized the sh.. they're in. As some of you have said, it might even be to late...
;) Birdieonfirst

[ruserious]

delivered by ED at the meeting in an uncandid way
Is that a typo, or are you referring to our managements normal style of communication

[Ghostflyer]

How will the use of jumpseats help commuters? Most of the guys I know that commute go to Aus. Will they have a jumpseat sit on knee policy coz the 345 cockpit is full most of the time anyway.

[Vorsicht]

I think this will be a great lesson for ED to keep his stupid mouth shut until he knows more. The jump seat has already been binned apparently. Made it to TC's desk and he gave it the same treatment that he has every other time an overly optimistic middle manager who thinks he actually has some influence has raised the issue.

As for a substantial payrise, sure he probably has a grand proposal, given that he comes from a culture where that sort of thing happens regularly. Will he get it through here. Yeah, I'm sure something will flow through in May. Will it be substantial? Probably, substantially reduced from whatever was proposed.

I for one am not holding my breath for anything significant. As anyone who has been here more than 5 or 6 years will tell you, we've heard it all before.

V

[Haaan]

Any chanse that the EK Flight Dispatchers will get a raise ?

[Vorsicht]

As further evidence of the companies commitment to its people, both Frankfurt and Bangkok have just had the crew meal allowance reduced.

EK managment must be laughing their heads off at how they can continually reduce costs without having to face any real backlash from those whose money they are taking.

V

[montencee]

Have no doubt that EK will continue to pay as little as possible for as much work as can be extracted (standby for the 1000hr FTL) and from the accountants point of view this makes perfect sense.
Any potential for meltdown has been deferred by the non appearance of the 380.
Talking up by Ed is likely to be bluster and is unlikely to be followed by any meaningful action.
Standby for.........no change at EK.

(Do the trainers really need more remuneration? Seems that everybody and their dog is joining training right now. And no wonder. Saw one training roster for December, 14 rostered days off in the month including one block of four days and another block of five days off over the 25th, no leave taken.)

[Wiley]

Sorry if this is perceived as thread drift by some, but has anyone else wondered how we'd be coping today for crews if the 380 had arrived on time?

[Obfuscation]

I should think that once the (smokescreen masquerading as) the operational plan for 2007, posted on crew portal yesterday is read by the 'bus F/O's awaiting command the RG list will be added to considerably.....

[disconnected]

I've been in EK a long long time. Some rules:
1) Don't believe anything until you see it.
2) What is promised at a meeting (Particularly of just training staff!) seldom results in much.
3) EK looks at everything - New planes, new routes, new financial incentives. They are all discussed. It doesn't mean they materialise. They are simply considered.

30% - If you believe this, I've got a bridge to sell you. My guess is about 7-10%. That will make up for the drop in the USD and keep us ticking over.

The grumbling will go on. A few will leave, the airline will replace them and continue making good profits. Cost of living will rise at least 15% and the traffic will get worse. New methods to relieve you of cash will be devised. EK will increase productivity with novel new ideas to offload duties into your own time. That's the prognosis for 2007. Get used to it - its happened every year.
Take it or leave it. It could be worse.

Aside from all that Happy New Year to all my fellow aviators.

[GoreTex]

disconnected,
your outlook is too optimistic, I guess 10% in april, but everything else will get worse, much worse.
tex

[Marooned]

Hi Dis,

I've been here long enough to think the same way as you... However I would disagree that 10% would mean that only a few would leave. We said similar things last year and over 100 pilots left through the back door and we are struggling to find others willing to enter the front (to the extent that a recent memo to recruiters which has advised that the assessment sim ride should be 'softened' as too many were failing).

I would predict a worsening situation for all of us in 2007 with more of us 'leaving it' rather than 'taking it'.

Regardless, I hope all of us have a Happy New Year one way or another.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

marooned ,disconnected and all others, are you the guys who will leave if the pay is less than 7 percent!!:confused:

We will see 5 percent plus the 3 percent increment NO accomodation allowance increase. A 30 percent hike in school fees with no increase to the education allowance cap.
Single FOs or those married with no kids only getting a 2 bedroom apartment, 3 is history people!! Those who are married with kids will not be allowed to choose the no furnished option and take the 36000dhs allowance, if they do they must find there own accomodation. This is simply to fill silicon oasis which comes with furnished accom ONLY!!:D

Oh what else!! an increase in the threshold to trigger overtime from average 78hours to 84 hours to match Cathay!!

An increase from minimum 900 to 1000 hours a year,trust me this is on the GCAAs tables now and someone is going to get quite rich from it!!

10 to 20 percent income tax in mid 2008.

Altogether a great package thrown together, one that i am sure will attract those pilots from all those far flung places that want to live in a house made of bricks instead of MUD!!:E

Dream on guys!! DO NOT WORK DAYS OFF!!DO NOT VOLUNTEER OPEN FLIGHTS YOU ARE MAD TO DO SO!!

However 400dhs is a huge sum of money for some!!:{

[Marooned]

Yes B, for all the reasons stated above.

[Thylakoid]

I've been in EK a long long time. Some rules:
1) Don't believe anything until you see it.
2) What is promised at a meeting (Particularly of just training staff!) seldom results in much.
3) EK looks at everything - New planes, new routes, new financial incentives. They are all discussed. It doesn't mean they materialise. They are simply considered.

30% - If you believe this, I've got a bridge to sell you. My guess is about 7-10%. That will make up for the drop in the USD and keep us ticking over.

The grumbling will go on. A few will leave, the airline will replace them and continue making good profits. Cost of living will rise at least 15% and the traffic will get worse. New methods to relieve you of cash will be devised. EK will increase productivity with novel new ideas to offload duties into your own time. That's the prognosis for 2007. Get used to it - its happened every year.
Take it or leave it. It could be worse.

Aside from all that Happy New Year to all my fellow aviators.

You are absolutely right about all that. I have been here for fifteen years now and that is exactly what the company philosophy and mentality is. It is a ruthless business and they will exploit you as much as they can.

HNY all

[Trashed Aviator]

It appears Etihad will pay about 40% more than EK , as a single guy it makes sense to ditch EK and head down to AUH. Is this possible.

[Myway or the highway]

Hi all

I have read bikkerdennah's post and have noticed this has cropped on other ME forums....is this definitely happening or just rumour and where can I find more information on this?

I am in the interview stage at the moment and dont want to accept a position and then find out in 18 months time that I will have to pay tax, because this is one of the attractions of taking up a position there?

Would EK and any other employer for that matter, increase the pay accordingly to take account of this possible tax imposition or would they just let it be and do nothing?

more info required please people

cheers:uhoh:

[uplock]

Hey Myway or the highway Disconnected hit the nail on the head. lots of Smoke and Mirrors you want real proof then do a search (http://www.gocurrency.com/v2/historic-exchange-rates.php?ccode2=AUD&ccode=AED&frMonth=11&frDay=31&frYear=2002)on Historic Exchange rates Australian Dollar verse US $ or AED as your EK salary is tied to the US Dollar any way

Pilots from Europe took a salary hit with a 14% increase in the Euro in 2006 against the US dollar. The Poms have not faired well either....

Don't be fooled by the Company exchange rate protection spool that even Einstein would have trouble explaining and dont mention the provident fund.....what a fizzer.

The US Dollar is going to take further hits which is why the Government here have announced thet they are now converting 10% of the natioanl Foriegn reserves in to Euros next year when at present they only have 2 %

I would be asking how the company proposes to deal with the decreasing buying power of your EK salary given the historic response to date has fallen short of the mark every year. Bet you dont get any thing in writing .....:ok:

[max AB]

I have a cunning plan...given a lot of EK's receipts are in currencies that have risen against the USD, ie EURO, GBP, AUD, they must be making a killing when these receipts are remitted into USD. That killing could be shared with the workers through an improved ERP. It could be sold to managment as it would be "cost neutral" and they like those sought of things. Yes I know, silly really....

[L1011]

Am out flying for New Year's. Take it there was NOT a payrise announced today for EK pilots?:{

At least I win a beer, it probably won't taste so good though.

Hope none of the crew was affected by the BKK bombs.

[Dr Know]

If it happens..., Like all other news in DXB, the first to know will be the one that gets the Gulf News firts!:E

[disconnected]

EK takes revenue in many currencies. It pays many of the big bills in USD -including the pilots.
The following major currencies have risen against the USD:
EUR 12%
GBP 14%
AUD 8%

You dont need to be a genius to work out that even if they gave us a whole 10% increase you would be worse off than this time last year.

The effects of the drop in USD will ensure that inflation in Dubai will be a healthy marging above any of the currency changes - thats a given.

As for the imminent salary announcement - Give me a break! This is a rumour propagated by management to keep us hopeful until the yearly review. Hopefully by then they will have relieved the manpower pressure thru failing airlines, 3rd world recruitment etc. and won't have to give us so much.

Like I said - It happens every year. And every year without fail EK has got more work for less money. That's an absolute Directive to Management. Their own jobs depend on it.

This January you are worse off than you were in January 2006 but be happy - You are better off than you will be in January 2008!

[GoreTex]

since Oct. 2000 the dirham lost 37% to the euro and that is a fact

[Gillegan]

Like I said - It happens every year. And every year without fail EK has got more work for less money. That's an absolute Directive to Management. Their own jobs depend on it.

8 or 9 years ago, the company announced a program by which they would reduce their unit costs on the order of 17% annually (I'm going by memory - if anyone remembers the exact figures, let us know). As far as I know, they are still doing this. In the beginning most of the reductions came through the use of bigger aircraft. Now those cost reductions are harder to come by and that is why much of their efforts are focused on the employees (pay and productivity). It's not just the pilots that are getting this. Talk to the employees in many of the departments and you will hear similar tales of retention and recruitment problems, overwork and underpayment. There is little sympathy around the company for our fatigue problems because in their eyes, at least we have regulations that limit what they can do to us. As the cost of fuel has risen, that 17% has to come from somewhere. The 380's were going to provide some of their cost savings in the coming year. I can't wait to see where it's going to come from now. Even if they do give us a payrise, I wonder how they plan on making it up.