Helio Courier

[Riding the Goat]

Does anyone know what or who this is? (Cloud formation maybe??)

It is mentioned in a recent add for jump pilots in Tasmania.

[trolleydriver]

A Plane :eek:

[the wizard of auz]

It was a STOL type of aircraft with a hefty lifting capability. operated in both Vietnam and PNG in the early days. Would love to have flown one. looks a bit like a big ol 180.
http://www.stolaircraft.com/42b_inflightsm.jpg
Note the huge leading edge slats used for STOL capability.

[Ratshit]

Saw one demo'd at Oskosh in 1999. Amazing shortfield performance!

I have some digital video of it - but no idea how to put that up in here!

R:cool:

[Torres]

York Mendoza owned a Helio Courier in Port Morbid.- rego P2-BOX.

Appropriate rego! :D

[Chimbu chuckles]

I used to fly one in PNG...quite a lot of fun but certainly a quirky aeroplane.

If you're talking about a Tassy based Helio it is probably the one I used to fly...it was sold to a farmer from Tassie and, after I taught him how to fly it, he dissappeared NW along the coast from Port Moresby heading home to the farm...in fact I was unsure which was more quirky, the aeroplane or him...bit like dogs and their owners I suppose.

In terms of all out lifting ability they closely equate to a C180 or maybe an early model 185...they are slower than a 180...more difficult to fly period and lots more difficult to fly to the limits of their performance...but I think it may be the only true 'go anywhere' aeroplane I have ever flown.

In the SE trades at Moresby I could bring the aircraft into a low hover over the piano keys and land with virtually no ground roll...they have virtually no crosswind capability...7 kts from memory...so having landed in a 20kt south easterly on 14R at POM just taxiing it to the GA apron was fraught with unpleasant possibilities.:ooh:

[Ratshit]

...they have virtually no crosswind capability...7 kts from memory...

Chuckles

Would that matter?

Just land on POM RWY 05/23 (that's the very very short but really really wide runway)!

R:cool:

[Riding the Goat]

An aircraft, now why didn't I think of that! Thanks for the responses.

Wiz, there still might be a chance to fly it if you want to move to Tassie for 4 months!

Details are available on the normal job site (union) webpage.

[the wizard of auz]

I don't think I could handle the cold down there. I might just keep doing what I'm doing and hope another chance pops up somewhere I think. :}
besides, girls with three thumbs don't really do it for me. :E

[Chimbu chuckles]

RS:}

At POM the terrain means the wind blows from two direction...14 or 32...but taxiing was really hard even with the locking tailwheel...I was sorely tempted to eschew the runway all together and just land on the GA apron lined up with a parking spot...but figured Sooty in the tower was unlikely to cope at all adequately so never tried it...on previous occassions I had put on an impromptu aerobatic display low over the airport at Moresby in a C152 Aerobat belonging to the aeroclub and taxied a C185 all the way to the maintenance hangar 'tailwheel up' after landing with a known flat tailwheel (departed the bush strip the same way)...on both occassions after requesting 'clearance' from 'Da Tauwa'...on both occassions I received clearance but it was excrutiatingly obvious on both occassions they had no idea what they were saying yes to:E

[the wizard of auz]

Strewth, your lucky they spoke to you. Last time I tried to chat to the tower, they wouldn't talk back............... So I landed anyway (it was dark and raining).
They had plenty to say soon afterwards. didn't they Ozex. (I must say that our mate Oz has a rather eloquent way with words.) ;)

[Codger]

Helio also had a version of the Courier with a turbine pulling it around.
Think it was called the Stallion. Been a long time but I do recall that it gave new meaning to the term STOL.

[Alistair]

Ahh the Helio Stallion, wanted one of those...or a go in one, anyway...for donkeys years. They are making both the stallion and the courierr again. See here http://www.helioaircraft.com/ourplanes_stallion_stats.htm for the performance figures on the Stallion (37 kias to 190 kias ish lifting 3000 pounds out of around 300 ft at sea level....hmmm nice)
Piccies here (scroll down for the Stallion)
http://www.heliocourier.net/

[Torres]

Stallion: "Seating Capacity 10 (pilot/passengers)". From my memory of P2-BOX, 10 POB could be interesting.....

But I'm sure "he who got 19 into a C402 and 30 something into a Bandit" could test even that! :}

[tinpis]

I know a bloke who got 22 school kids into a Porter :rolleyes:

Well he said he did one night at the Lae Dero but they were all bull****ters there them days

[CougarNZ]

I think there is one based in Omaka.
have seen it fly into NZPP.
awesome short field performance.

[troppo]

How come they stopped using Porters in PNG? Did Talair make money out of them?
There was a Turbine Helio Courier for sale in Brazil a couple of years back for about $165k US.

[tinpis]

Come to think of it the god botherers (CIA?) were using Helios out of Sentani Irian Jaya as well as piston:eek: Porters in the 70's

The god botherers had a Dornier at Wewak that old Father McDuck would fly with his pith Helmet on

Dornierhttp://www.geschichte.aero/geschichte/zivile_luftfahrt/bilder/DornierDo27.jpg

[Torres]

Troppo

"How come they stopped using Porters in PNG? Did Talair make money out of them?"

Talair inherited them (one, P2-SEA?) from M@cair and exchanged a piston Porter air frame from the Catholic Mission for an overhauled engine. They were not financially viable and we made a decision to quit single engine aircraft. They were too slow, and with the PT6A-20 engine (upgraded I think from a -6), the engine HSI's were short lived and expensive. So slow in fact, Maxie departed Goroka for Lae on one occasion and returned 40 minutes later for more fuel and to wait until the easterly wind subsided a little!

Also, from memory the legal max TO weight was around 4,800 pounds, which limited legal payload. (Air America operated them at 6,200 pounds max TO weight and I think the US military at 7,000 pounds max TO weight).

Besides, pilots used to break them at places where recovery was very difficult and expensive - like Karimui!!

M@cair pranged one in the Gulf, near Kerema I think it was, before we bought M@cair out. Can't recall the pilots name, but he was badly injured. A passenger was also either injured or killed. If I remember correctly, the young bull they were carrying was also put down? It's over 30 years ago.......

They were a special mission STOL aircraft, not viable on normal air charter operations. I shared the Boss's view, we simply didn't need a one off, especially with up to fourteen Twin Otters filling the same role.

The Tykes at Wewak had a few Dorniers - Archbishop Leo Arkfield used to fly one - but I'll bet you didn't know that at one stage, Talair also had one Dornier DO27, but it didn't last very long. From memory, that was around the mid 60's?

At one stage we considered a twin Dornier - a DO28? - with twin geared engines on sponsons. The look was very brief before interest was definately lost forever!!

[Capt Snooze]

'Talair also had one Dornier DO27, but it didn't last very long. From memory, that was around the mid 60's?'

1961.

My first ride in a light aircraft. Out of Kundiawa. Set an impressionable teenager on the road to ruin in aviation. :ugh:



Snooze

[Chimbu chuckles]

Would that be the DO27 'Uncle' Brian crashed at Elambari, or one of the strips around Mt Elambari...the one that was just the other side of the Kaw Kaw Gap?

The God Squad still had Helio Couriers at Sentani in the late 90s...immaculate examples...fitted with a 'rake brake' on the tail activated by pulling a lanyard in the cockpit...given the STOL performance of the HC250/300 I was given to assume it was an "Oooohhhh Feeeeccckkk!!!" last ditch 'Savior':p for ground lopping/loss of directional control when landing on a cliff edge strip rather than tear arsing off the end unable to stop. A rake brake is a grappling hook arrangement anchored into the tail by a stout cable...they ruin the aeroplane but if it's that or fall off a cliff I could see some advantages...having said that falling off a cliff in an aeroplane that will happily fly at < 30kts seems hardly a life ending event...we used to drive all manner of less capable aircraft off cliffs at less than 'flying speed':E

For those interested in the Helio the full length LED were free floating and activated by the AoA exceeding a certain value that equated to 39 kts...they just popped out. If you look at the above picture you can see the enormous flaps leaving very little trailing edge span free for ailerons. Given the truly 'stoopid' low speeds the thing was routinely capable of Helio decided to augment the ailerons with roll spoilers...these were what made true STOL landing so sporting as PIO in roll on short finals tended to concentrate the mind wonderfully when experienced for the first time...or the 31st. The effect was that a small excursion in roll was corrected by a small application of the control wheel...which led to the complete destruction of lift in the last 2 feet of wing...which led to a bigger correction in the opposite sense..which led to...the overall effect was "Oh ****..Oh ****...oh ****...OF FEECCKK!!" for the last several hundred feet until you got used to it and devised work arounds...like never use full flaps or control small excursions in roll with the yaw/roll couple available from the rudder.:uhoh:

I only new of one person who had flown a Helio when Yorke asked me to test fly BOX after restoration...and he hadn't flown it in 20 years...Tony Gridley, Then a fellow Talair pilot based in Mt Hagen (from memory) now a respected F28 C&Ter at PX.

A quick phone call elicited the following advice..."well Chuckles all I can remember is that the slats pop out, with a loud bang, at 39kts and 6 turns of the flap crank in the ceiling is flaps 20 (there is no flap position indicator)...don't even think about using full flap until you have 40+hrs in her..(yes i ignored that bit...and discoverd the PIO stuff as a result:ugh: )...oh and don't hold it on the ground on takeoff after the tail is up or she'll look for new and interesting places to go..and take you too".

No POH seemed to exist so armed with the above advice I proceeded to discover the Helio's charms alone and then some time later teach the Farmer chap...sans brakes on the right hand peddles:uhoh:

On my first takeoff no airspeed was in evidence requiring a return to land to get the pitot system cleaned out...the advice about the leading edge slats was invaluable...a very loud bang on finals accompanied the slats extending and I remember thinking.."Oh that'd be 39 kts then"

It was wonderful fun:D

[tinpis]

The Tykes at Wewak had a few Dorniers - Archbishop Leo Arkfield used to fly one - but I'll bet you didn't know that at one stage,



Whenever the good Bishop was flying out of Wirui in either the C180 or the Dornier zer vass dis strong cherman akksent on zer wireless to Vevak ja!
He would use the same call sign for vicheffer plane he vass flyink.
The only way FS Wewak could figure out whether he was in the Dornier or the C 180 was the from the time intervals :hmm:

[bushy]

Chimbu I hope you are saving all this stuff, so you can print it later in book form.
It's history, informative, and amusing.

[poteroo]

The DO-27 had problems with the fuel injection,(?), and that caused many of the losses in PNG. The Anglican Mission had one in Madang around 1962/3, in which I travelled Kar Kar to Madang, - (didn't know about the engine then!). That same a/c was lost somewhere toward the upper Markham / Dumpu area, I think, about a year later with some survivors, but not the driver.

Helicopter Utilities had a Helio Courier,(270 or 295HP ?), in POM about 65/66, and it used to be flown by Herbie Ray, a well known LAME who had lost an arm, but had a strapon arrangement to fly the Courier. He also flew their C182 around that time too.

Would have dearly loved to try the Helio.

happy days,

[Jamair]

Got a great set of pix of a Courier at YRED in 1998....bloke was doing the 'round Oz thing with the famly and kitchen sink on board. I'll see if I can dig em out and post them - just moved house so don't hold ya breath....:rolleyes:

[Capt Snooze]

The HUPLs Helio (295 hp from memory) was in Indonesia from the early seventies. (So was Herbie :ok:, onya mate! )



Snooze

[lostpianoplayer]

Torres:

I'm very interested in DO-28s, both the B model, and the D. (The latter has much more power, albeit allegedly less reliable due the the higher rpm & gearing, and more seats.) They come up for sale every now and then - maybe once a year, somewhere in the world - and I always have to sit on my hands to stop me buying one. If and when an affordable DO-28B comes up, I reckon I'll be unable to stop myself from taking the plunge - awesome STOL performance, very low VMC, and a taildragger to boot! Sounds like a lovely machine to me - so what, if you don't mind me asking, is wrong with them?

For the record, I too would love to have a go in a Helio. My current STOL mount is a Harmon Rocket, which does pretty well on short mountain strips - but the Helio would be a whole different ball of wax. Gotta love something that'll land in the low 30s!

[lostpianoplayer]

...and for prevention of pedantry...

the DO28D has more seats, and more power, although is is allegedly less reliable because...

Number of seats in an aircraft usually being unrelated to its reliability :)

[chimbu warrior]

Tinnie I think your memory may be failing............

Leo Arkfeld was a Yank, not a Kraut.

I recall seeing a DO-28 for sale in NZ a while back. It was not flying, but had (I think) arrived from Hawaii in a container.

[pakeha-boy]

...flew the Helio for K2 Aviation out of Talkeetna.....made runs up to the 9and 14,000 ft levels(up the Kahiltna Clacier) droppng off climbers ,picking up sick ,injured,and dead ones,rubbish runs,photo shoots,sightseeing ,etc etc......best run we ever had was dropping off the girls for a playboy shoot.....some of you perverts might remember that edition.......boss wouldnt let us stay for the shoot ,but we all got autographed copies...bloody beautiful indeed

anyway ...the HC is probably one of the best workhorses you will ever fly....magnificent piece of equipment and fun to fly....class act and the same class as the single-engine otter with a PT6 in her.....PB

[tinpis]

A Yank with a Kraut accent?? :hmm:

Legendärer Buschpilot

Wewag
Mit einem Staatsbegräbnis wurde am 28. August in Papua-Neuguinea der amerikanische Steyler- Missionar und Altbischof von Wewak,Leo Arkfeld, begraben. Als „fliegender Bischof“ war Arkfeld eine Legende, um den sich viele abenteuerliche Geschichten als Buschpilot rankten. Mit seinen Flugeinsätzen hat er viele Menschenleben gerettet und einen wichtigen Beitrag zur Entwicklung der unerschlossenen Region des Tieflandes geleistet. Österreich hat den fliegenden Bischof durch die MIVA, die Sternsinger und durch ÖED-Entwicklungshelfer unterstützt.


Granted he was born in Butte, Nebraska but have you heard those folks talk???

[tail wheel]

Legendary Bush Pilot

Wewak

With a country funeral, the American Steyler missionary and old bishop of Wewak, Leo Arkfeld was buried on 28 August in Papua New Guinea. As a "flying bishop", Arkfeld was a legend, with many adventurous stories as a bush pilot ??? (rankten = climbed??). As a pilot (?), he rescued/saved many human lives and performed an important contribution to the development of the unexplored region of the lowland. Austria ??? the flying bishop through the MIVA, that supports Sternsinger and through ÖED development???

[tinpis]

Well he sounded German on the radio..or maybe it were Double-Dutch ?? :hmm:

Trader would remember ...Trader you reading this??

Stop counting yer munny for a minute.

[Torres]

Raised on an Iowa farm, Arkfeld was ordained in 1943 in the Society of the Divine Word, the worldwide mission order founded in Germany in 1875. Five years later he was consecrated a bishop in Chicago, was assigned that same year to war-ravaged Wewak, where bombs and bullets had destroyed all of the society's mission houses and killed half of its priests, nuns and lay brothers. Tall (6 ft. 3 in.) Missionary Arkfeld lunged into the task of reconstruction, bought an English-made Civil Auster, then the first of three Cessnas, personally air-speeded material for the missions' rebuilding.

Tinnie. I'll remember the name of the German Priest you're thinking of when I get my brain into gear, around the third coffee. Think he eventually met his Divine Boss on a mountain somewhere? Didn't think Trader came into PPRuNe - haven't seen any adverts for pens and watches!

lostpianoplayer. I don't recall all the reasons why we lost intrest in the DO28 but I do remember we couldn't see the cost benefit of two engines versus payload, in a relatively slow tail dragger, at a time we were "blessed" with what became the world's largest fleet of Islanders, whilst we had our sights firmly set on turbine aircraft.

At the peak, Talair provided RPT services to 143 airports - largest scheduled airline network in the free world - flew 80,000 sectors per annum in 43,000 flying hours. PNG fleet peaked at 69 aircraft, although there was never a time the entire fleet was serviceable! Don't remember all the statistics, but we had 23 Islanders, 12 Bandits, 14 Twin Otters, 9 Cessna 402s and the rest were singles, C185, C206 and Porters. Cranky Frank turned out one engine overhaul per week, but even that was not enough and some engines were overhauled in Brisbane.

Experience tended to confirm the hairy Cat D and worse STOL operations were best left to the Missionaries in their small aircraft and fearless Divine guidance!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/NiceRunway.jpg

[tinpis]

Torres now I is getting confuddled.

The Bishop was the guy flew in the pith helmet?And used the same rego for whatever aircraft he was in?
The German was father Heinie Hof or sumpin like that?

[Mr Proachpoint]

NZ Wings wrote that if the Helio had claws, it could land on a fencepost.

MAPt

[Torres]

Geeze Tinnie, that so long ago I think I was wearing short pants then!! My brain has filtered a zillion SP Brownie and XXXX stubbies since then! :{

I think Hienie met his maker between Madang and Hagen, must be almost 40 years ago. If memory serves me correctly, he had left the priesthood by then. I'll have to look it up.

I vaguely recall the flying Kraut priest in Wewak but can't remember his name. I think you are correct, Leo Arkfeld used to wear a pith helmet. Most of the Tyke pilots in Madang were Yanks.

I lived in PNG for 23 years - but it's 22 years since I left there!!

Ask Sharpie - he'd remember.

[Ratshit]

Here's some video of the Helio Courier that I took at Oshkosh in 1999.

Thought you might find it interesting.

http://www.fototime.com/9C56977EB23678C/conv.wmv

R:cool:

[BrokenConrod]

Good one Rat!

1999 - was that the year of the big warbird prang at Oshkosh?

BC:8

[Ratshit]

Good one Rat!
1999 - was that the year of the big warbird prang at Oshkosh?
BC:8

Yeah, I just missed getting that on video. A mass formation take-off gone wrong resulted in a Corsair ploughing into a Bearcat that stopped on the runway. Pity - probably could have paid for the trip with that footage!

Oshkosh is so "in your face"! The whole time I was there I thought a prang was inevitable.

and I was right!

R:cool:

[pakeha-boy]

Rat****...
.....yeah mate...it,s in your face,but tell me you didnt enjoy it....once is enough,but its worth it......just like the Reno Air Races.....and when your neck gets sore from looking up all day,....at least at Reno those Bikini glad,big Knocked babes help to "straighten you out" during those numerous tinnie breaks.....PB

[Ratshit]

Rat****........yeah mate...it's in your face, but tell me you didnt enjoy it....once is enough, but its worth it.....PB

PB - yes, it is an awesome but ****-scary show.

1999 was the year that Jimmy Franklin unveiled his jet powered Waco. I don't think I have laughed so much in years - it was hillarious!

I see in chasing up the following, that he was killed in an airshow mid-air in 2005.

R:cool:

"In 1999, Franklin debuted his latest project, the World's only Jet-Powered Waco. With the help of Les Shockley (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Les_Shockley&action=edit), creator of the "Shock Wave" jet truck, they were able to modify Jimmy's 1939 Waco bi-plane with a T-38 Talon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-38_Talon) (J-85) jet engine along with the 450 horse power Pratt & Whitney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney) radial prop engine. With both engines turning, the Jet Waco put out over 4,500 pounds of thrust at over 2,000 horsepower, making Franklin's hands able to perform stunts no one has ever seen or even attempted in this type of plane."

[Wheeler]

Getting back to the question Helio Courier H250 LIW, now at Wedderburn. A most impressive aeroplane - seems to go up and down almost vertically, stands still in the air and land and take off in about twice its length!

[Torres]

Tinpis. This may answer your question? Found a listing of DO27 accidents in PNG:

VH-??? Catholic Mission, Goroka. June 1961. Pilot Fr Harry McGee killed.
VH-AMQ Lutheran Mission. Mt Elimbari, June 1962. Pilot Brian McCook.
VH-EXA Lutheran Mission. Near Tauta, September 1964. Pilot Ray Jaensch, killed.
VH-SHB Wirui Air Serv. Near Sassoya, June 1967. Pilot Fr Zampese killed.

You may be thinking of Larry Zampese? He was an Italian although served with the New Zealand Air Force in World War II. I recall the accident well as Mary Lawler, Chief Commissioner for the Girl Guides, along with Fr McKenna were also killed.

The only Helio Courier accident I can find is VH-UNF Crowley Airways, Derim, February 1972. Pilot unknown. Two passengers seriously injured.

I have an email from an old mate (whose memory is better than mine) who says:

The Pilot of that courier at Derim was Ross Shepherd He had a load of about 16 on at the time, all "pocket fares". :}

[tinpis]

The only Helio Courier accident I can find is VH-UNF Crowley Airways, Derim, February 1972. Pilot unknown. Two passengers seriously injured

:} Well remember that one.....a fare too many?...:hmm:

[papua new guinea pil]

The first helio crash was 28/8/66 at Georgetown in Queensland.
Iwas employed by Helicopter Utilities, and Ken Hammond who was the then chief pilot , had the first endorsement, tony Karas had the second and I had the third.I copped a very strong crosswind on take off, and as the helio had a cg forward of the nose, it swung easilly.No one hurt, but a lot of damage .
Greg Lipman