The truth about pprune

[milehighsociety]

Ladies and gents of pprune..

Recently It so happened that someone on this site, (movin' up) posted a huge lie about my business and I. He doesnt know me and has never met me. Now thats just poor judgement on his behalf, he either has me pinned for someone else, or beleived something said by someone who is full of it.

Now if someone in general public is sooo stupid as to post another person beleif up here without researching it, well they deserve to look like and idiot.

The real problem lies with the moderators:

After movin' up posted a lie about me, the moderators then qualified the lie by reposting it and warning everyone about ME!!! As expected, the moderator, in this case Tailwheel... Did not research anything but very quickly supported movin' ups lies. As a moderator, in my opinion, Tailwheel would have to be the biggest problem here.

Find a better way to talk shop, people on this site lie quite openly and hide behind anonymity. Tailwheel, movin up, you are both COMPLETELY GUTLESS, you have no balls whatsoever. Id would seriously doubt anything that either of these 2 have to say.

To all of those who are reasonable and honest people, apologies... but in the last week, (the only week Ive been on this site in about 4 years something) Ive already found 1 absolute blatant liar and 1 stupid sheep who couldnt help but follow the liar with blind faith. Tailwheel, are you really as stupid as sheep?? How embarrassing!!!!

Tailwheel, As a moderator, you should be taking a little more care. The defamation case you so promptly dismissed is not as far off as you realise. Lucky you can hide gutlessly behind your anonymity.

Movin'up. You were so quick to post a blatant lie, but now where are the answer to my PM's?? So quiet now?? Nothing to say for yourself?? Id be that embarrased too..

Gutless. Both of you.

Again, everyone beware especially of these two and anything they speak of. Throw caution to the wind with others as well.

Happy flying. You wont be finding me on this site any more..

[Air Ace]

Don't forget to close the door as you leave! :}

[tail wheel]

No point in reading only the last chapter - best to read the whole book (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255644)! :ok:

[Keg]

Geez mileshigh, I would have thought that it'd be easier to respond to the original post than launch with a diatribe that makes you look a lot worse than Tail Wheel's comments in the original thread. I certainly can't see any dramas with Tail Wheel's comments either. He's just pointing out some relevant facts to other PPRUNErs when it comes to aviation jobs. You always have the option of responding to those points he raises. Interesting that you choose not to.

Given that I have no need of a job but am just interested, what does 'incentive based pay' mean?

[milehighsociety]

It means,

if you operate the aircraft well...ie. as I ask. Keep them clean.. look after customers etc etc (all the stuff that operators like to see)

then I pay much much more than award. Ie. If I recognise you are here to help me out, Ill help you out.

For example, I have on pilot. Less than 500 TT but tries very hard, looks after the equipment and makes very very few mistakes. That pilot now earns $35k 4 months into their first job. And Id pay more if that pilot kept it up.

Maybe you are right. Maybe I over reacted.

...But as a new operator who
-pays extra for insurance premiums so I can give the real fresh guys a go.
-Pays full time award plus extras from the first minute of employment.
- I also offer alot of icus time (up to 40 hours) to make pilot very comfortable in first job and to ensure they themselves are confident they are doing a good job.
-Offers good opportunity for pay rise

I get extremely offended when someone tries to put me in the list of operators who screw pilots for everything they are worth.

I just came through the industry. I am still a young guy and have what had to go through all fresh in my mind. Im trying to to do better for pilots than anything I ever received.

Basically, its a sore point. I try so hard to do better than whats asked of me, in return, nothing but rumours, here and in real life about how badly my pilots get it financially.

Than add to that some pretty upsetting PM's from various people, tailwheel included.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

MHS it might have been the ambiguity and self serving nature of your post that got this whole thing started. I don't know you or your operation so I am not going to comment on you or your company. Good luck to you and I hope you get the pilots you need, particularly if you pay award or above rates.

But be aware that you can't post ads on this site and tailwheel was enforcing that. The only other information they had to go on was your post which wasn't much was it? They have to be careful and now you're bagging them for doing so. They were just attempting to protect people. It is an anonymous forum so we don't know who you are, which is probably a good thing. Either way relax and enjoy the wet.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I'll take the job for $180K :}

[Aussie]

I'll take the job for $180K :}

Stop stirrin the pot FROZO!!

hehe

[MCKES]

Just my opinion here but MHS doesnt sound like he has screwed anyone he seems like he is doing a favour to everyone and should be thanked not accused.:D

[Defenestrator]

If indeed you are paying what you state then you should be commended. All this angst could have been avoided if you'd worded your post with a little more care and perhaps stated some conditions (ie. pay as per the award and above). As I'm sure you're aware there are many unscrupulous employers in GA that have no regard for award pay. I fully support tailwheel in his view of employers that don't observe basic remuneration requirements and the unfair advantages it can offer. If you are doing the right thing by your young prodigy then you should not feel victimised by the moderators comments. Good luck to you in your business dealings in aviation.

Tailwinds
D:ok:

[milehighsociety]

Sorry.. forgot to mention..

There a few PM's going on in the backround behind these posts.

In my first to Tailwheel was an apology for advertising. I removed the post after 2 hours when a friend called me up and told me it isnt allowed.

I also got stuck into him for implying that I was dodgy. Which he did, based on what the other fella said. not getting into it again.
I quote

"As you failed to respond I can only assume you are referring to some form of “pay by the flying hour”, no flying – no pay?....." Instead of implying, he could simply have asked.

Anyway. Im over it.

For the few good words in there.. cheers.

[podbreak]

Given the recent legal ramifications of one persons attack on another, I reckon making unsubstantiated comments about someone or their business, is a little bit risky...

[milehighsociety]

Aussie if you made it worth my while Id pay you $180k..

That would include perfect pilot performance in ALLLL aspects of aviation including management...

Maybe wash my car, clean my house ... after flying max hours of course..

Conducting all a/c maint.

Plus

You'd have to get me laid every other night (they all have to be hot of course for that amount) Import them if you have to I dont care. Fro $180k I just expect it to happen..

Still want the job??

:) :) :}

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

MHS,

You have made yourself look incredibly silly, do you actually know what defamation is ?, i do not see libel.

Who has been defamed, you personally or your psuedonym " MHS ", some how i do not think the personna MHS is a legal entity.

If you are who you claim to be, an honest business owner not stepping over the carcass of many of your previous pilots, you'd understand why your add indeed looks dodgy.

Terms like "performance bonus", " Salary of around", "Full time incentive based pay" and "Excellent rates", ring the dodgy bells in my head.

I'd be interested to know what organisation you are representing, please be specific, and no i am not looking for a job. Let the tide of PPRUNE then respond.

[milehighsociety]

Sorry if my very breif and non specific add didnt do it for you.

Having understood for some time that most operators offer no job security and $40 bucks per hour casual wage, I understand why most pilot (yourself obviously included) are naturally sceptical when it comes to pilot conditions and pay.

The new pilot of today walks straight out of flight school and is expecting to fly some new age airline style cessan 210 with glass cockpit, flight plans pre prepared for them, hosties and a pay packet similar to the one their flight schools lied to them about in order to get them excited and do some flying training. All of this whilst being offered 5 star accomodation in the sheraton nearby for overnights etc etc..

News flash. GA has never been like that. It wont ever be like that, although the glass cockpits in lighties is becoming a bit more of a reality. As long as insurance and maintenance costs remain rediculously high, along with competition amoungst the industry, pilots will never get much more than award in GA, nor will they receive 5 star accom.

I have a new and small business. We do happen to turn over some good hours and Im doing as much as I can to make their job more enjoyable. The same regarding pay to offset the amount they have spent on training, so that they in turn can help me make money.

With the industry the way it is, its just reality. You dont like it?? Go do investment banking or something.

Personally I love what I do. I hope I can help others love what they are doing, given it is the same as I.

I advertised a job. If, via bad publicity, my expected target group is turned away due to misinformation provided by a third party I have been defamed. Any setback, financially, image wise (list goes on) can be described as defamation. Its a very grey area and can be represented in many different ways shapes and forms.

I made it clear that I have "a business", someone else made it clear that "that same business" does not pay. Names and places dont matter. We are talking about the same thing. If I happened to find a particularly attractive person for the job (Ive found 3) and they happened to deny the job after having accepted it, Im in a scoop, potentially costing me time flown in the aircraft. Loss of revenue is a quantifiable damage that can easily be accounted for. Further to that, a damaged company image due false or misleading statement, whilst not immedately quantifiable, can be compensated for in this day and age.

The fact that someone doesnt even know the name of the business or where its found, yet can still mislead others as to its reputation under the guise of anonymity, cna be misconstrued as someone having personal knowledge of that business. If someone takes advantage of that.... etc you might see the point or you might not.

Advice: You might want to think about what you say on these sites..

Me personally. I just invested a good bunch of money in planes and infrastructure. I will give myself the best chance I can to succeed and not lose my dough. If someone ****s in my pocket, Ill teach them a lesson, get back the money they helped me lose, and hopefully show others that I wont tolerate it.

Basically, dont :mad: with my livelihood and career, and Ill be a really really nice guy. And of course, vice versa. :)

[milehighsociety]

So anyway... I can see how it goes.

I am the owner operator. In most peoples eyes Im gonna screw you over as best I can and I am a right prick for it.

I can see that Im gonna get argument after argument no matter what I do or say so Im done. Ill leave the post up for a few days, you guys can have a real good crack at me by all means. But until you have worked for me, you are in effect full of ****e. YOU JUST DONT KNOW AND YOU ARE MAKING IT UP.

After a few days Ill delete the thread, maybe get a laugh out of what been written and you wont see me on this site again. Its a promise. Leave you guys to bicker about things you dont understand or know about, it must make for interesting conversation.

Ill shut the door as I leave... what a ****** ::ugh:

[Bula]

MHS..... just try not to bite to hard. You'll give yourseld an ulser. Check your PM

Cheers

[haughtney1]

Milehigh, fair cop for getting caught (or being ignorant of the rules etc) you are big enough to admit your mistake.....

As for those of you having a go at him..all I say is GET OVER YOURSELVES :hmm:
Don't you have anything better to do?
(tailwheel I have to say, your post is rather snippy and snide...certainly not befitting a mod.......and full of assumption:= )

This is quite simple really.....and a storm in a teacup

[tail wheel]

I’m not sure milehigh should be thanked, but if he is meeting his legal obligations by paying Award wages, that should be acknowledged. Many Australian GA operators blatantly do not meet their obligations with respect to staff remuneration, particularly with low hour, vulnerable pilots.

It was that generalised warning I alluded to in my post on the other thread, provoked by the suggestion of “incentive based pay”.

If, as milehigh suggests, he is giving 300 hour pilots “a go”. paying Award plus wages and providing paid training and paid ICUS, then he deserves our recognition. :ok:

milehigh. There are around sixty PPRuNe Moderators; from the PMs you sent me this week fifty nine would have been offended and hit the big Ban button. I gave you the benefit of the doubt for reasons known to myself. There is no defamation or libel in the posts made by either movin’ up or myself. And even if there was, who was defamed and libeled – some anonymous user name? You could be one of hundreds of GA operators; you are not identified, nor will I permit you to be identified on this forum.

You told me you received a further seventeen applications as a result of my restoration of your thread. If that is the case you will be overwhelmed with pilot applications from this thread. :}

Next time buy a paid advert!! :=

haughty1. I made no assumptions and no allegations about milehigh. In a very general sense I was simply warning the more vulnerable amongst us, to be cautious about any employment offers in General Aviation.

[haughtney1]

Tailwheel, I have to disagree....perhaps because we view this from different perspectives...however how does this comment...

As you failed to respond I can only assume you are referring to some form of “pay by the flying hour”, no flying – no pay?

Tie up with this ?
haughty1. I made no assumptions and no allegations about milehigh.

You clearly state you have made an assumption, secondly..given the tone, context, and the assumption you then say..

I’m not sure milehigh should be thanked, but if he is meeting his legal obligations by paying Award wages, that should be acknowledged.

Which to me smacks of a double standard, or at the very least, a fairly rapid back pedal.
So Tailwheel IMHO, perhaps it would be wise to not be so quick off the mark?

[FullySickBro]

Tailwheel has balls.

He let the thread ride.

Let us have MHS's say. And his.

Big storm, small tea cup :rolleyes:

[milehighsociety]

I wholly accept I should have been banned for that email and by all means expected it.

The two of you hit a note, and it was a low blow. I was just ensuring that you knew exactly how much you pissed me off :)

For your info: I am blessed with great lawyers. They advised that whilst names are anon in this site, the target audience ie: the pilots who read it here, are generally aware of how they can find out who is who. Especially someone who is a rare position and location such as I. In this case, company name is irrelevant. The pilots I had interested in the job knew who I am and who everyone was talking about, if they are deterred, the damage is done.

For the remainder of your post, thank you. I understand the underlying negativity and appreciate the rest of it.

I wont bring it up again. Feel free to delete this thread and my membership at your will.

[milehighsociety]

Here here.. Ill give him that 2 fold. I sure did expect the immediate ban

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Aussie if you made it worth my while Id pay you $180k..
That would include perfect pilot performance in ALLLL aspects of aviation including management...
Maybe wash my car, clean my house ... after flying max hours of course..
Conducting all a/c maint.
Plus
You'd have to get me laid every other night (they all have to be hot of course for that amount) Import them if you have to I dont care. Fro $180k I just expect it to happen..
Still want the job??
:) :) :}

SOLD. I'll expect an offer in my PM's.

Aussie: Stop trying to undercut me.. people like you are ruining this industry :} LOL :E

[tail wheel]

milehigh. I gave you a fair run to air your views. Some of your comments in this thread have exceeded the rules and bounds of decency on PPRuNe - and I'm am not referring to your attacks on me.

Quit whilst you are ahead and have still have access to this forum. :mad:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed.gif