View Full Version : I am ashamed. Removal Of Christmas Tree.

14th Dec 2006, 17:45
I am ashamed to be associated with the justice system here in Canada, due to a Provincial Justice removing a Christmas Tree from the lobby of a Court House.

More disgusting than what they are doing at the Duck Pate plant in my opinion.


Don't like my Christmas decorations? Does it offend you?



Krystal n chips
14th Dec 2006, 17:54
:hmm: Said Judge hasn't recently been on a "fact finding vacation" to the UK by any chance ?

We Brits can still be quite inspirational at times :rolleyes:

14th Dec 2006, 18:31
If her reasons are correctly reported, the removal is a tribute to the blind ignorance of Madam Justice Marion Cohen. The origins of the Christmas Tree are of course far from Christian, and they owed their recent (19th century) introduction in England to a German, Albert, Price Consort of Queen Victoria. As to Christmas itself, I could readily introduce you to relatively recent and wholly mind-numbing Christian polemic against it. Even Mr Belafonte's carol "Man will live for evermore because of Christmas Day" is doctrinally unsound. If anything, it has to be Easter Day. That said, Give me Back my Christmas Tree.

Rich Lee
14th Dec 2006, 19:42
As to be expected, sound logic once again Mr. Davaar.

That said, I entered this thread expecting to find a discussion of environmentally sound methods to remove Christmas trees from the home or business after the holidays. Something better than dumping on the curb at trash day where children might eat the remaining bits of tinsel still clingling to the odd limb.

14th Dec 2006, 20:35
In my town, during the second week of January, the city has for years set up a central collection site where you drop off your old tree. A sanitation company then shreds them for mulch, which they sell to offset their expenses.

14th Dec 2006, 22:40
I recently went to a lunch, hosted by the Thai ambassador to NZ, to celebrate the King of Thailand's birthday. He wished everyone a Merry Christmas at the end of his speech. I presume he wasn't trying to offend himself .....:rolleyes:

15th Dec 2006, 02:56
Things are a bit quiet here. Usually when Christianity rears its ugly head the minor prophets of Google rush in with the mandatory pensée on the Big Bang. Well, we cannot wait around for ever, though my present offering is just the Small Squib.

Madam Justice Marion Cohen finds, obiter we must hope, that the Christmas tree is a Christian symbol. Well! Well!

“The festival is to be traced partly to the tendency in the fourth century to multiply such seasons, and, by introducing a festival for each period in Christ’s life, to complete “the Christian year,” and partly to the growing tendency in the church to conciliate the heathen by adopting their religious customs”.

Moving right along, “The name ‘Yule Day’ given to Christmas, is Pagan. According to some the word Yule is derived from Yuel, a wheel, and was meant to designate the Pagan sun feast in commemoration of the turn of the sun and the lengthening of the day. According to others it was the Chaldean name for “infant”, and was meant to designate the feast in honour of the Babylonian Queen of Heaven. The time indicates a Pagan origin, for it was at the time of the winter solstice that the Pagan festival just referred to was celebrated. The ceremonies of the “Drunken festival” of Babylon have their counterpart in the wassail bowl and the revels that in all Popish countries have been characteristic of Christmas”.

There is no Biblical mention of Christmas or a festival thereof.

“The Kirk of Geneva keeps Pasche [Easter] and Yule, what have they for them? They have no institution [in Scripture]" (King James VI).

“Christmas (as well as many other pagan practices) was adopted by the Roman church as a missionary strategy”.

“ .... nearly all the customs associated with Christmas had their origins in pagan idol worship. Many of the earth’s inhabitants were sun worshippers because the course of their lives depended on its yearly round in the heavens, and feasts were held to aid its return from distant wanderings. In the south of Europe, in Egypt and Persia, the sun gods were worshipped with elaborate ceremonies, while in Rome the Saturnalia [time for, inter alia, gift-giving] reigned for a week” and “Among the German and Celtic tribes the winter solstice was considered an important point of the year, and they held their chief festival of Yul to commemorate the return of the burning wheel [Swastika? anyone?]. The holly, the mistletoe, and the wassail bowl are relics of pre-Christian times”.

Himmler tried to interest the Führer in renewed Volkish Yul ceremonies, but Hitler commented drily that it would never stand up against “Stille Nacht”.

In my youth in Scotland work did not stop on Christmas, no holiday, and the celebration was the frankly pagan Hogmanay.

In summary, Christmas itself has no Scriptural sanction, and the Christmas tree itself is nothing but pagan.

Waes Hael! milady. Waes Hael!

15th Dec 2006, 09:03
I find myself in total agreement with Davaar and OT here.

I totally reject the idiot secularists who don't understand anything about religion, religious symbols, personal beliefs etc., and wish that more people were allowed to feel free to celebrate whatever feast-days they wish. I don't find anything to object to in Christian religious symbols, in the two houses just up the road from me displaying Menorahs in their windows, or fireworks on Diwali.

That said, as today is the start of Hannukah, I would like to wish all Jewish PPRuNers all the compliments of the season.

15th Dec 2006, 09:06
Did you see in the paper Mail I think, of the mindless vandal pulling the lights off a tree, and in the next photo, plod having caught the silly bugger making him put them back again!

Flying Lawyer
15th Dec 2006, 09:34
I recently read an article online about Christmas in Dubai. I can't find it now, but this pic illustrates the absurdity of the Canadian decision and the attitude of some city councils here in the UK.


None of my Muslim friends, whose faith ranges from virtually non-existent to strong, are offended in the slightest by Christmas celebrations, and my first Christmas card this year came from a Jewish friend.

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 09:41
Next thing they will be demanding one remove the upside down horse shoe one has nailed to one's front door,and every witch for miles around will be able to enter Draper Towers willy nilly.

Krystal n chips
15th Dec 2006, 10:58
Next thing they will be demanding one remove the upside down horse shoe one has nailed to one's front door,and every witch for miles around will be able to enter Draper Towers willy nilly.

Erm, I think you may be a little confused here Mr D. Surely the above is more of a Health and Safety issue ? ;)

15th Dec 2006, 13:09
Erm, I think you may be a little confused here Mr D. Surely the above is more of a Health and Safety issue ? ;)

Only if the horse is still attached.

15th Dec 2006, 13:13
Tell me that they´ll leave the Shamrock on Paddy´s day alone. :{

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 13:17
It is also prudent to have a bottle full of pins buried beneath your doorstep,the witch menace is on the rise again since the fluffists stopped us burning the feckers.

15th Dec 2006, 13:25
Great picture, FL. Can't work out exactly where it is as one has never been quite that close to the Burj, but that's of little concern and the Dubai landscape changes every three months or so anyway.

One has had both Muslim and Buddhist employees in one's employ, and found both to be quite accepting of Christmas and willing to partake in its traditions. One of the nicest Christmas gifts I've ever received from an employee was given to me by a Muslim.

The mind boggles at why Christmas undergoes so much repression in the west whilst it's festively enjoyed in places like the Middle East and Asia. No place does Christmas to the extent that Singapore does, yet once one has accounted for all the Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus the Christians are probably just another sliver of the pie. Granted, there it's just a big shopping event, but if one really wants to enjoy world-class Yuletime decorations, that's the place to be! (All the better if one can stay around for Chinese New Year, which is done with equal magnitude.) :ok:

15th Dec 2006, 13:27
I fear for the future. Where does Madam Justice Marion Cohen stand on the Easter Bunny? We should be told.

15th Dec 2006, 14:10
Small asside/affirn on what Davaar wrote; in Norwegian, the words Jul and hjul are both pronounced similar to the English Yule. Jul means Christmas, hjul means wheel.

Getting a Norski-Israeli friend over tonight, he said he'd like traditional Lutefisk (they do not have lyed cod looking and tasting like jellyfish with bones in the Promised Land apparently. Lucky sods.) for dinner. And could I please make sure all our Christmas decorations were up becaus the misses them in Israel as well? (they are, extravagantly so). Thanks to XX's post I've just found out that about the start of Hannuka and that it requires latkes.
Google coughs up a recipe, looks easy enough.
I'll surprise him with those.
having grown up here in Norway where nobody knows bubkes about Judaism, he never expects people to know or care about things Judaic. And is inordinately touched whenever we make an effort.

XXTSGR, thanks for giving me the chance to make our friend a little extra happy ! :ok:

15th Dec 2006, 18:03
And if I could just take this one step further........I may incite a riot here, hopefully not. It's not my intention, just my perception of things.

Why is it. that the mentality of people, who are offended, always wish to
"remove" the offensive item? Obviously, they have a feeling of being alienated, left out, or not included.

So why then, do they not request an "addition" of some symbol that pertains to their beliefs?????

After all, most western countries are very accommodating when it comes to the addition of symbols pertaining to the diverse peoples who immigrate here, both past an present. Building Mosques, synagogues, a Buddhist temple. Opening a Kebab shop, Curry house or a Chinese take away, even though it isn’t real Chinese food. You get my drift.

So why then are western cultural symbols, ways and beliefs, always being pushed into the corner??

Another example....the Lord’s Prayer. I said it for years as a youngster in the UK, and many more years as a youngster here in Canada. It was replaced with diversity Cree of Canada or something or other.

Am I seeing things correctly? Am I missing something here?

15th Dec 2006, 18:21
Hooray for Oz!

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get
out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off
potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia
and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his
Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some
radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that
Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those
are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic
state, then Australia is not for you", he said on national television.

"I'd be saying t o clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing
people in Australia : one the Australian law and another, the Islamic law that
is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts,
democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another
country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those
with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country.
Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not
want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want
to be Australians, and who don't want to live by Australian values and
understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he
supported sp y agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT
AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying
about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the
terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the
majority of Australians."

"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically
correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was
offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against
anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia ." "However, there
are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and
apparently some born here, need to understand."

"This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to
dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our
own cult ure, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and
victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our
society, learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing,
political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian
principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly
appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God
is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you
accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy
with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you
did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not
force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every
opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and
griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I
highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You
asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, citizens will find the
backbone to start speaking and voting the same truths!!

15th Dec 2006, 21:44
Only if the horse is still attached.

Or the shoe falls on yer head as you enter Draper Towers.

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 21:54
One's old dad was into DIY before anybody else discovered it,he wired up a front door bell push to a mains voltage bell,it was not advisable to press that bell push when it was damp or raining.

Al Fakhem
16th Dec 2006, 12:37
Just back from Pakistan. Guess what - BIG Christmas trees and "Merry Christmas" banners in the lobbies of all major hotels.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

16th Dec 2006, 12:57
Our friend trooped up with a meter of kosher salami as Xmas gift 'for the house' and proceeded to eat himself into a gastronomic orgasm with Lutefisk topped with copious amounts of bacon and hot bacon fat.
A dish so revolting food that one needs having been born to it.

When I put the latkes on the table, they gave rise to a tear in the eye and a story about how his Mum (passed away last year) used to make them with all the kids eating straight them from the pan. :ok:

16th Dec 2006, 13:10
Pakistani off-licence on the High Street: Christmas tree and 'Happy Christmas' banner out the front: Check.
Hardware store run by very Moslem family: 'Happy Christmas' lights out the front: Check.
Corporate card sent by someone I know to be a practising Christian stating 'Happy Holiday Season': Check.



16th Dec 2006, 15:37
OK. I think we've established that "other" religions have no problem with Christians celebrating Christmas. It's only the Christians (and the secularists) who have a problem with it.

16th Dec 2006, 17:43
What gives a judge authority to determine what decorations are in a courthouse? She may have authority in her courtroom when sitting but the courthouse is a public place not purely the domain of some full of it judge..

16th Dec 2006, 18:49
RT, totally off topic, but Ben's has closed and Bill Wong's is closing. :{
Terrible Christmas present.

16th Dec 2006, 19:23
Damn, if you ever thought something would be immortal it would be Ben's. Have Montrealers lost all sanity?

Happily there is a deli out here that makes two inch smoked meat sandwiches and imports the meat from Montreal. As long as it wasn't from Ben's.

Some folks would interrupt a flight to cab it into Ben's to pickup a couple of sandwiches and carry them on their next flight.

16th Dec 2006, 19:32
A disaster; and Bill Wong's too, you say!

17th Dec 2006, 00:46
A disaster; and Bill Wong's too, you say!

Yep, including the Beni Hana steak house. That Japanese beef. Gone. :{
Ben's had been on strike since August, so they just shut the place down.

Juud I've a great recipe for apple cinnamon latkes. E-mail me if you want it.

17th Dec 2006, 01:44

Apparently, she is responsible for the administration of the courthouse. I guess thats where she get the authority from to have it removed.

Sad really. I wonder if the tree in the front window of her house is visible from the public road? Or if her tree lights decorating the front of her house are visible from the public road? I wonder if she has taken them down for the same reasons she had the tree removed from the public building?

17th Dec 2006, 02:19
If so, it would probably be for a different reason, namely that the court houses are supported by public money, her house on the other hand is privately funded. :ugh: