Misuse of the apostrophe

[3 bladed beast]

An interesting message found it's' way into my i'n'b'o'x and I thought it was so important that I would share it with the rest of the flying world as it could one day affect us all, so very deeply'



I mentioned at our last Execs' meeting my frustration at the misuse of the apostrophe. Three instances this morning have increased my ire and OC IPC has sourced the following for me. Further details are available at the following site: www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk (javascript:ol('http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk');).


This may appear petty but the quality of staff work is destroyed when the reader becomes irritated by transgressions of very basic rules. Please ensure that all your staff take note.



I can only hope that reading this post, that your 'ire' hasnt' been increased, nor that you have become irritated, by the trangressions of the very basic rules.....

So little time and so much to do.....but I think I might just check out that website later on, supposing it has'n't been blocked on my account.....

[sarsteph]

An interesting message found it's' way into my i'n'b'o'x and I thought it was so important that I would share it with the rest of the flying world as it could one day affect us all, so very deeply'



I mentioned at our last Execs' meeting my frustration at the misuse of the apostrophe. Three instances this morning have increased my ire and OC IPC has sourced the following for me. Further details are available at the following site: www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk');).





So this is where ISSC tutors go on the web to get their kicks :E .

[allan907]

So much sarcasm - so little understanding of one's native language!

[BEagle]

"I can only hope that reading this post, that your 'ire' hasnt' been increased, nor that you have become irritated, by the trangressions of the very basic rules....."


Errm, shouldn't that be hasn't?

[splitbrain]

Apostrophe errors are common place in an individual's written work and are generally ignorable. However when they appear in a piece of work that is on public display and should really have been checked it becomes somewhat inexcusable.
The sign outside Stamford in Lincs used to say (don't know if it has been changed)

WELCOME TO STAMFORD
STAY A WHILE AMID IT'S ANCIENT CHARMS

:ugh: :ugh:

[basuto72]

BEAGLE,

That was a WAHHH, right?

[BEagle]

A what?
.

[Rapscallion]

Fishing for a wahh by asking what a wahh is.... Now that's A-Level!:}


3 bladed beast - maybe you should forward this link to your staff officers...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Words-Mangling-Manipulating-Language/dp/0340836598/sr=1-2/qid=1166795285/ref=sr_1_2/203-4405162-7159951?ie=UTF8&s=books


Mrs R occasionally teaches english in a state school and reports that the standard of grammar among even the best studes is appalling, and the English department are only concerned with "conveying meaning" rather than grammar, spelling etc. :ugh:

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Fishing for a wahh by asking what a wahh is.... Now that's A-Level!:}
3 bladed beast - maybe you should forward this link to your staff officers...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Words-Mangling-Manipulating-Language/dp/0340836598/sr=1-2/qid=1166795285/ref=sr_1_2/203-4405162-7159951?ie=UTF8&s=books
:
Humphry's book is dull as buggery. Suggest instead, 'Eats, Shoots and Leaves': http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1861976771/sr=8-1/qid=1166795998/ref=pd_ka_1/203-8151128-3505553?ie=UTF8&s=books, which is very entertaining. :)

[Impiger]

Now there was a time that you could rely on the snivelling service to recruit a good type who understood how our Mother Tongue should be constructed. So imagine my horror to see an official Civil Personnel advertisement on an MOD noticeboard seeking to entice folk to take the tests to be elevated from Band E to Band D: The banner headline read: 'You're passport to Band D' and went on to explain the process for application and selection. Just goes to show if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

With all the manpower shortages, cost cutting, lean, war on several fronts overstretch etc etc I find it almost laughable, I'm not laughing because I know that some sad fecker seriously believes it, that the misuse of a simple apostrophe is such a heinous crime that they need to go into print over it in this manner..................get a bl@@dy life for crying out loud:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Roll on 2012 and the real world:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[228 OCU]

Well try this for size.
My better-half is a teacher and she has told me that punctuation and spelling are not checked in the GCSE English exam, and that "Text Speak" is allowed:eek:
What the hell is going on in our educational system?!!?


If in doubt Bang Out!

[BEagle]

Nope - apostrophic abuse needs to be stamped out! The next thing we know will be that 'yoofspeak' txtmsg prose will become an acceptable literary form. Together with the use of 'i' instead of 'I' as the perpendicular pronoun!

Edit - it seems that it's here already, according to the last poster. Why on earth is punctuation not checked? No doubt digi-yoof thinks that's spelled 'punk chew asian'? (Small 'a' - digi-yoof doesn't understand proper nouns!).

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

But as you seem to have got the gist of the previous post Beag's where's the crime:confused:

I wonder how often during his time Richard Branson has "kicked off" like a big girls blouse, as described by the first poster, over of a few grammer crimes................:ugh:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[3 bladed beast]

Merry Christma's' everyone!

[Blakey875]

Well yes but, no but, I hate especially on this site people mis-spelling Hangar with Hanger...... A Hangar with an A is where you park Aircraft, A Hanger with an E is what you hang your Coat on!!
Biggest spelling error in Glos can be seen at the AMC South Cerney where the Hangars all have painted on the doors in 10 ft lettering = Hanger 1, 2 or 3.....

[Pontius Navigator]

ABIW, the point, at least from my POV, is that the misuse of the apostrophe, other punctuation and spelling is a jar to the senses of those with sensibility, and it destroys their understanding of the text. By the time they had deduced the probably intent of the author they will probably have lost patience and lost the gist of the whole message.

The recent DIN that misused PERSONAL when it meant PERSONNEL in relation to the use of image capture devices was a case in point. Not only that but legally the instruction becomes nonsense.

The whole point of correct spelling etc is to ensure accuracy of content and understanding of intent.




PS we are having smoked salmon so it is to late for a late bite.

[Blakey875]

Pontius - Surely in your PS you should have used the word too?

I concur with the thread though and roll on 2012!

[BEagle]

Or even too late?

Enjoy the smoked salmon!

[oldbeefer]

My personal Arghhh is with 'where' and 'we're'. Always Broken - yes, I think it does matter - children from other countries can spell and use correct grammar, why shouldn't ours?

[Pontius Navigator]

Biggest spelling error in Glos can be seen at the AMC South Cerney where the Hangars all have painted on the doors in 10 ft lettering = Hanger 1, 2 or 3.....

Ah! But the reason for that, I was told when I underwent training there many moons ago was that a chap had 'lost' a hangar. Beside himself he was at a loss how to make up this loss when an old wag introduced him to a Form 21. This magical form allowed him to convert one item that he hadn't got into one that he had.

A quick flick of the pen and one Hangars, wooden, aircraft became one hangers, wooden, coat with a suitable 21B sect/ref. Unfortunately he didn't have any wooden coat hangers either.

No problem he was told. Another F21 and the hangers became hangers, wire, coat with a 21C sect/ref and were now magically C-stores which were later written off.

Clearly the man who painted the hangers at South Cerney had not been paying attention in the lecture.

[green granite]

A link to the apostrophe protection society :cool:

http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

[Pontius Navigator]

With a 4lb line it is almost too easy.:)

[charliegolf]

228 OCU,

But is your better half an English teacher? I'm not convinced that she's gilding the lily a bit. (Or a lot)

CG

[228 OCU]

Yes she is.


If in Doubt Bang Out!

228 OCU,

But is your better half an English teacher? I'm not convinced that she's gilding the lily a bit. (Or a lot)

CG

[cum grano salis]

dinning Room make's me loose, patients: weather im' going too the hanger or the officer's mess.

[allan907]

"The attendance of a 47 Sqn, Hercules, Loadmaster will be required on the day"

So, ABIW by the misuse of commas you and the rest of your Loadmaster mates, a Hercules aircraft and, presumably, the remainder of 47 Sqn will all be required to pitch up. However, if the sentence was written correctly, viz:

"The attendance of a 47 Sqn Hercules Loadmaster will be required on the day"

...then only you are required to don your best pressed grow bag and be on duty!

or,

"The CMC is to provide accommodation for 2 SNCOs, a loadmaster and a flight engineer"

Accommodation for 4???? or....

....just 2 - the LM and FE?

"The CMC is to provide accommodation for 2 SNCOs: a loadmaster and a flight engineer"

Yep, it can all be deduced from the sense of it (not)!

[TheWizard]

....just 2 - the LM and FE?
"The CMC is to provide accommodation for 2 SNCOs: a loadmaster and a flight engineer"

But surely that should be
"The CMC is to provide accommodation for 2 SNCOs: a Loadmaster and a Flight Engineer" :}

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Alllan,

Oh for a public school education, how I have managed for the past 32 years without the grammatical know how that only ISS or a degree in under water basket weaving can bring I will never know:rolleyes:

I can count, on the amount of fingers a worm has, the times I have failed to convey my intentions and get the task done with either written or verball instructions........but perhaps another one of your patronising lessons in grammer will complete my otherwise lacking in all things writen or maybe enhance my oral (in)capabilities....

you ex blunt (cleaned that up).....................ooops but that will be the baldrick in me:O Merry Xmas Sir:D

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[allan907]

Have a great Christmas ABIW - and don't let the chip weigh you down too much :}

[Milt]

Anyone who doesn't know how to use an apostrophe or a shift key on the keyboard should not be trusted to operate the correct switches, keyboards or controls on the flight deck. It's no place for the illiterates.

So endeth a fundamental pronouncement!!

[Dan Winterland]

Ha! Think the apostophe police are bad? I work for an allegedly English speaking airline in the Far East where we have been told we all have to take an English language test!

Mind you, as the company employs a lot of Austarlians, perhaps they have a point!

[Pontius Navigator]

Alllan,
Oh for a public school education

I would have said 'Not bad for a lowly SAC' from an earlier thread :)

[It's Not Working]

Always Broken
Would you be so dismissive if it was a servicing schedule that was mis-apostrophised and your airframe ended up with 2 widgets being fitted instead of 4?
That said I’ve been fixing things slightly longer than you’ve been breaking them and have never had a problem with an aberrant apostrophe (to my knowledge), possibly because I understand how to use them.
These days I spend my time reading and writing rather than getting my hands dirty and totally support Pontius's POV:
ABIW, the point, at least from my POV, is that the misuse of the apostrophe, other punctuation and spelling is a jar to the senses of those with sensibility, and it destroys their understanding of the text. By the time they had deduced the probably intent of the author they will probably have lost patience and lost the gist of the whole message.

My local council has just built a new entrance into the tip, the 2 lanes are marked, CARS - H.G.V'S!!!
Happy Christmas and keep safe.
It's still not working.

[Pontius Navigator]

the 2 lanes are marked, CARS - H.G.V'S!!!

Like the 2001 census, lots of this type of work is often vested in HMP. My local council had a Viewpoint near RAF Scampton. After I complained (humourously) a plate with I E was placed in the sign to correct the spelling. No humour in the council though - no reply.

Ooops, I meant Probable intent :(

[Rapscallion]

If one wishes to be understood and taken seriously when speaking, the position of the apostrophe does not matter a f*** . However, if one wishes to be understood and taken seriously when writing, the position of the apostrophe is very important (as is spelling, punctuation, grammar and sentence construction). I guess I failed at both, but I do appreciate the importance of the discipline.:sad: Sorry ABIW.:(


Well said Roghead, you and Pontius Navigator: The whole point of correct spelling etc is to ensure accuracy of content and understanding of intent. have summed up this thread. :ok:



ABIW - I suspect that the reason you have supposedly never failed to convey your writen (sic) intentions is that the reader has not understood your mistake :ugh: or they have had to pause to interpret the context in which it was written to get the idea. :(

[ratty1]

The increased and downright misuse of the apostrophe to form plurals shows a general mental lethargy of the population of the UK.
The spread of this nasty and avoidable error and its acceptance into common use shows that this mental lethargy continues to grow at an alarming pace. So, if we the people of the RAF are not mentally vigilant enough to be mindful of the abuses of our beautiful language, how can we expect to be mentally vigilant enough to be mindful of the abuses of our Senior Officers memos and correspondence and help the people trying to join the RAF today?:uhoh:

[charliegolf]

Nearly had me then Ratty!

CG

[Jehu]

ABIW, the point, at least from my POV, is that the misuse of the apostrophe, other punctuation and spelling is a jar to the senses of those with sensibility, and it destroys their understanding of the text. By the time they had deduced the probably intent of the author they will probably have lost patience and lost the gist of the whole message.

The recent DIN that misused PERSONAL when it meant PERSONNEL in relation to the use of image capture devices was a case in point. Not only that but legally the instruction becomes nonsense.

The whole point of correct spelling etc is to ensure accuracy of content and understanding of intent.





PS we are having smoked salmon so it is to late for a late bite.

Do you mean 'probable intent' rather than 'probably intent' ?

Sorry. Just seen your 1218 post.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry. Just seen your 1218 post.

:ok: .

[Safeware]

Not about the apostrophe, but how about this for different meanings then?
Dear Mother,
In law, there is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you so much for the presents! I was expecting nothing more than a token yet, again, you have exceeded even your own incredible standards.
It was a shame you had to stay here for such a short time. I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable seeing you leave. The relief was immense when I heard we might see you again soon. I wanted to end it all by saying goodbye now. I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do not.
Much love
Matthew


Dear Mother-in-Law,
There is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you? So much for the presents I was expecting. Nothing more than a token, yet again! You have exceeded even your own incredible standards.
It was a shame you had to stay here. For such a short time, I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable. Seeing you leave, the relief was immense. When I heard we might see you again soon, I wanted to end it all. By saying goodbye now, I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do.
Not much love
Matthew
An example fromhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4583594.stm
:)
sw

[Pontius Navigator]

Rotflol .

[Zoom]

Very good, Safeware. And this is why the legal profession whittles its punctuation down to the bare minimum. Even though it makes for dull, cumbersome reading, it does limit the opportunities for misplaced punctuation to change the meaning of legal documents.

ISS for President. ;)

[Dan Winterland]

This reminds me of something a mate had to endure on a transport Sqn on the secret Oxfordshire airfield. He was the Sqn security officer and the Sqn had just lost a secret file. They had looked high and low, but it was obviously in the hands of the KGB. So he wrote a letter to OC Security Sqn admitting the problem and inviting him and his minions to visit the Sqn to investigate with their big box of latex gloves, and could they please bring some Vaseline to make the experience a little less unpleasant.
My mate shows the letter to his Flt Cdr and asks for his thoughts. Flt Cdr, reads it and starts shaking his head.
"I think we have a problem here. You've split an infinitive".
Now I heard of aircraft crashing for lack of a split pin, but never because of a split infinitive. This firm grasp on trivia from middle management was one of the reasonds I left the RAF. (Apart form the cr@p pay, too many dets and the fact I can't write that is!)

[Pontius Navigator]

DW, yes I can see that to wrongly write a letter is trivially compared to the offence.

Some DW (Defence Writing) galls. I had a pilot boss at ISK, or rather he became my boss after we were sold down the river, who insisted on all letters to Group being signed off at an equivalent rank level. He couldn't see that this would stop the staish writing to the AOC.

Anyway he would only sign off letters he could understand. As he was not a Nimrod man, nor a weaponeer, that was not much. My ex-boss, now at Group, wondered why my letters were suddenly longer, incomrehensible, and signed off by a pilot. Naturally he replied to the signatory who As he was not a Nimrod man, nor a weaponeer, could not understand the replies.

OTOH its painful on the eye's with all these pokey little things like apostrophe's comma's. Beside's it's use adds lot's of extra keystrokes.:)

[Snow Dog]

I thought ISS taught you only how to underline titles and number paragraphs. A competent level in English, as with Maths, was expected on joining.

I resent having to pick up poorly written prose as much as I resent receiving it - catch 22. I agree that content is far more important than the layout and I get just as annoyed by peeps who push out a correctly formatted, smart document, on time, then spend the next few days amending the content! However, if the content is lost due to some imaginative punctuation and confusing sentence structure, it is all wasted.

It boils down to this: Why take pride in what you write and not how you write it? Do you have pride in what you fly, but not how you fly it? Like most things in the service, English (or people's approach to it) gets knocked most by those who have to excuse their inabilities.

Happy Christmas

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought ISS taught you only how to underline titles and number paragraphs. A competent level in English, as with Maths, was expected on joining.

No, my ISS had, as its first block, a book on English usage. It was one where you read a pane, moved on and answered some questions and, if they were correct, moved on. If you got a section wrong, such as mis-identifying a subordinate clause, then you went back to an earlier pane that you had not previously covered and started over.

Beside SW (now DW) they made great play of the over adequate semi-colon, the adequate comma and the mis-related pronoun. Certainly the latter was an essential lesson.

[Safeware]

For all that people may have bitched about ISS (and I didn't get an A), it gives a very sound grounding in writing in clear English that I think many would benefit from.

sw

[sarsteph]

Even our so called top companies need a bit of tuition on the use of apostrophes :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6208295.stm

Maybe we could roll out ISS to civvy companies. It would make a change from them inflicting their products on us all the time.(ie JPA etc) :E