BA CityFlyer

[tallaonehotel]

So, now that Evans and co have revealed their LCY operation who would want to work for them?.
Looks like the management are staying in Manchester, to continue the poor performance they have put in with Citiexpress & BACON....

[tiggerific_69]

ah but did you notice that most of them would be stepping down from their positions once the company has been "established"??

[Bacon Slicer]

Yes- tens of thousands more into thier final salery pensions and then on to the next job from WWW.Nepotism.com (http://www.Nepotism.com)

Why these people have not been paraded around the regional bases and put right I do not know. Surprised MOL has not headhunted these muppets.:}

[skianyn vannin]

Well, I for one have bid to go to EDI as my first choice on the latest bid form. Not sure the company has any long term future, but at least I'll stay on a real aeroplane and have a bit more breathing space while I try and find another job.

The only other thing on the table is to continue flying the 146 until its demise, and then fly a Q400 based in Timbuktu. Its pretty obvious there won't be enough seats in MAN for everyone. If Uncle Brian says I can't have a command at FlyBe then all I have to look forward to is FlyBe RHS TP pay, which hasn't been brought into line with their Jet payscales.

All in all I don't think I have anything to lose.

[dontdoit]

tallaonehotel - As the rest of us are not privy to what Evans & Co have "revealed" about the LCY operation, any chance you could fill us in (just a curiousity request, that's all). Cheers, and good luck to all in the big "BA-con" for whatever the future holds.

[Blackcap]

And I think we'd all be interested in the routes that these 10 RJ aircraft are going to be operating out of EDI?

Or have they kept a few prime routes back from Flybe - allowing some continued operation through MAN and BHX?

And allowing the Didsbury based management to fly occasionally. Hope Carl is up to LCY landings - else he'll be in the RHS for 6 months like all those he has sent that way. :D

[tallaonehotel]

All that has been released so far is who will be doing what, post holders etc and possible vacancies for Connect staff.
(90 flight deck & 130 cabin crew)
Main Operating base: Edinburgh
Head Office: Pioneer House, Didsbury.
No news on routes yet, where else do the Royal Bank of Scotland need to send their staff?
As for the fleet, I am still under the impression 2 RJ's are still up for return in the spring XAR & XAS.
The information for both FLYBe and CityFlyer is starting to filter through day by day.

[AlphaCharlie]

Skianyn Vannin:

"Well, I for one have bid to go to EDI as my first choice on the latest bid form. Not sure the company has any long term future, but at least I'll stay on a real aeroplane and have a bit more breathing space while I try and find another job.

The only other thing on the table is to continue flying the 146 until its demise, and then fly a Q400 based in Timbuktu. Its pretty obvious there won't be enough seats in MAN for everyone. If Uncle Brian says I can't have a command at FlyBe then all I have to look forward to is FlyBe RHS TP pay, which hasn't been brought into line with their Jet payscales.

All in all I don't think I have anything to lose."

Thank god - doesn't sound like Flybe would want you anyway! "A real aeroplane" - yes because the Q400 is a pretend one with fake wings and engines and doesn't really fly, it nips on to the M74 when no one is watching to make the journey up and down the country, and hops on the P&O out of SOU when it has to go into Europe.

How do you figure there won't be enough seats in MAN. Have you looked at the proposed aircraft base plan on www.nextgenerationairline.com ?? 11 aircraft in MAN which will then be replaced in turn by Q400s and no doubt some 195s. And I wasn't aware that our bases where overly different from those your company offered. IOM and INV and more tibuktu than NWI and EXT. You have bid to move to EDI on the RJ, but you wouldn't consider moving to GLA, EDI, BHX, SOU with Flybe because at Flybe these places are tibuktu?? You do know we operate from GLA not PIK right?

As for RHS pay on the Q400, do you honestly think Flybe can force you to take a pay cut? No, if you are not offered command on the Q400 (which it sounds like you more than have the hours for) your salary will be red-ringed until our salaries catch up.

Here's an idea ... why not try Flybe - they aren't charging you! You will more than likely get promoted, get a bigger salary than you are on now, and they can't bond you for the Q400 rating, so you in fact have plenty of breathing space here whilst deciding whether to look for another job or not. Who knows, you might even find that Flybe has career prospects compared to BA CityFlyer with a stagnant workforce on a fleet of old RJ100s?

Just a thought mind. Oh and by the way, you come and land the Q400 in winds gusting 40 knots and try and get a good landing at the end, and then tell us all at Flybe that its not a real aeroplane, and that its just a turd turboprop. I look forward to shaking your sweat covered hand!

[Artificial Horizon]

Just a thought as well, I know that there are intense negotiations in progress at the moment because many BA Mainline pilots think that this new operation should be manned by mainline pilots. BA has a long standing process in force that says that all 100 seat aircraft flying in and out of London airports whould be crewed by mainline pilots. It would appear that this is the case here, so if this is the result of these negotiations are you sure that there will be a position for you in EDI anyway. Wouldn't burn my bridges with FlyBe just yet.

[skianyn vannin]

Hi Alpha Charlie

well none of us really know what will happen with T and C's. I know that if I go to EDI on the RJ I am going to keep my current T and C's. I don't know this for definite if I go to FlyBe. Nothing against the Q400, but my long term career aspirations are to sit in the LHS of a Boeing or Airbus. As I'm getting on a bit (nearly 40) I think I would be better off staying on a jet aircraft in order to achieve this. In addition there is no concrete info as to whether or not we will be bonded for the Q400, with the special 3 year non reducing bond.

As we are living in an information vacuum, and our bids have to be in by 21st Dec, I have decided to stay with the devil I know.

[AlphaCharlie]

Errr ...

Well according to the Pilots Q&A section on www.nextgenerationairline.com pilots will not be bonded if the fleet move is at the request of the company (as is currently the case in Flybe - you volunteer for a fleet change you get bonded, they force you to move then they can't bond you. Do you think all the guys currently moving from the 146 to the 195 are being bonded? No!)

Oh and as someone said elsewhere in another thread, the non-reducing bond only applies to those who joined the company post 1/7/06. I.e. all staff who joined the company on a reducing bond will always have reducing bonds whilst they remain at the company. So any bonds you have at Flybe will be reducing over 3 years! I suggest people at BACon read that website, and ask the questions of Flybe pilots, we will happily share what information is readily available, and would much prefer being open and honest to the constant scare mongering!

[tristar500]

Yet another BA disaster waiting to happen...

Whats NEW about Cityflyer? The initial hype was that this operation would be something totally new, with name - branding and service...

Head office - Didsbury (Manchester)
Operational Base - Edinburgh
Run by BA Waterworld (in all reality) - LHR

Does Willie really think that this operation will last the length of the RBS contract? Afterall, they are the ones who are filling 99% of the seats on a daily basis. As quoted by a BA Regional Manager at a 'mainline' staff forum recently, ''We cant run our operation according to the bank of promises''.
Maybe 'mainline' will use LCY now, (through this 'new' company) and transfer some thinner routes from LHR, thus releasing slots at LHR for other things...

Funny also, how the name Cityflyer suddenly appears again... Just happened to be on the shelf somewhere, along with all its applicable history and AOC details. Didnt really need much ammending to bring it up to speed and present it to the board. Easy and not much investment required at all...

Wonder when the RJ85s will appear!

[marlowe]

So is anybody going to join Evans and co on there misadventure? or is it once bitten twice shy? i am shy!!!!

[Flightrider]

David Evans' sole aim in BA was to keep himself in a job and collect his pension - nothing else. It is amazing that they haven't found him out and thrown him out yet.

[CheekyVisual]

Why would you boot out someone that has given you the one thing you have always wanted ! BA OUT of the REGIONS ! The dream of BA management for the last 30 years. It just took them 25 to realise that all they needed to do was hand it to DE and tell him to do his best !

Having spoken to the said gentlemen I can't honestly believe that he is clever enough to have planned any of this himself. It has all come from RE and then WW. They had a plan and had just the man for the job.

I notice he will be leaving Cityflyer before it starts for real. Can't say I can honestly give it more than two years but good luck to all involved I really hope it works out for you.

Oh and when DE turns up in a couple of months as the saviour of EOG start looking for a place closer to LHR !

[Zenna Fobyer]

Anyone know who the directors are of this reinvented company?
Are they ex Manchester mis-management? If so, the future doesn't look bright.:*

[unimuts]

Is there anyone joining the new Ba Cityflyer who can tell me what the salary and conditions are please? Have done a search and found nothing.

Thanks

uni

[Red Snake]

BA Citiflyer doesn't actually exist yet so T&Cs & hiring requirements haven't been set.

Wait until the dust has settled on the Flybe / BACon acquisition, at which point BA Citiflyer will start up on the LCY routes. You can probably expect T&Cs to be very similar to the current BA Connect. Tonnes of info. on these forums.

[Tormuick]

Just seen the ad in Flight for direct entry Captains for the RJ. Well this just shows how the BACON management have conned us all. So much for the bid at Chrsitmas for RJ positions, lots of us with the hours waiting patiently for promotion to no avail. There must have been a lot of underhand stuff going on in the background to make sure that Flybe stiil had some pilots for their inherited planes.
I now feel sorry for the guys that have gone to CityFlyer, who knows what the dodgy managers will get up to next?:\

[Hudson Bay]

No friends in business.

[Tandemrotor]

I have to agree with Tormuick

It seems to be breathtaking cynicism, and undoubtedly reflects on the nature of the management!

Buyer beware!

[Toastal]

Any ideas on what the future holds for the company, and how long will Willy keep it going for? I've heard that the pax loads to Milan/Madrid are very, very poor, and not sustainable. Also heard that City Jet are going head to head with them on every route they have out of City!

With the ramp extension going in, it won't be long before Willy can get some shiny new A318's in there of the main-line variety.

T:suspect:

[CheekyVisual]

Was talking to an x-RJ skipper today. Lives in Scotland, forced off the RJ when the six went to Swiss. Told he had Grandfather rights, told by RJ fleet manager and senior trainer he was needed in EDI and they would support his bid. Bid for EDI. Told by BALPA transfer to CF would not be an issue. Has the RJ current on Licence with lots of LCY experience. Can't even get a reply from CP or PH ! And to top it all now an advert in Flight !

That's the standard of management you can expect. Remember no one in CF has ever run a happy successful company.

Good Luck and remember two years means about 10 months or as long as the RBS contract lasts !

[moku]

Toastal,

Passenger loads on the LCY-Milan route are low. Passenger loads on LCY-MAD are actually good!

[teacoffee]

Have been offered a position but after reading all the negative reviews not sure what to do?
Any advice would be most appreciated!

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Join us at FlyBE :)

[skianyn vannin]

Absolutely ****ing unbelievable. Currently a BACON SF/O with 2500 hours on 146, 3600 hours TT. I applied for both Captain and First Officer positions on the RJ. Got neither, despite good training record. Found out that non type rated F/O's from BACON who are more junior to me have got RJ F/O positions.

This just goes to show what a completely bunch of odius turds Hutch and his hanger on are. I wonder what BALPA will do? Oh I forgot, absolutely **** all.
Although I have a new job with a 737 operator, this still feels like a kick in the nuts. Had I been offered an RJ command, I would probably have taken it.

[picton]

tea coffee

just out of interest are you a bacon pilot or did you apply externally. If you applied externally how come you have been offered a position so quickly if the advert in flight has only just appeared. ( I am presuming you response on pprune is promted by Torimucks postings ??)

[picton]

tea coffee

Forget it, looks like you applied for an FO's position. nice to know external FO candidates got in before any Bacon FO's. Looks like you'll have to stick that one in your pipe too hey Skyanyn !!

[towser]

SV I'm not aware of any non type rated Bacon f/o's who have got RJ f/o jobs. Certainly none I can think of.

[CheekyVisual]

Except all the new ones straight from the Hutch family training camp in Spain !

[skianyn vannin]

Hi Towser

I spoke to one of them last week. It is true.

[Blackcap]

It is true.
But you either have to be of the fair sex, or your face needs to fit the Hutch/Phelan mould.
Yuk.
:eek:

[picton]

11 pilots by all accounts, which match the number of RJ pilots who did not want to go to City Flyer but opted for Flybe, and who are now on secondment to City Flyer !!

[towser]

SV ; Think I know who you mean now , is there more than one?

[skianyn vannin]

Affirm towser. One more senior than me has flown the RJ before. The other who is junior to me on seniority hasn't. I don't begrudge either of them their positions as I'm leaving. If a command had been offered, I would have stayed. The point I'm trying to make is that the selection process (if there ever was one) is a complete farce. Despite being type rated and having a good training record I was never asked to attend a selection interview. A number of the companies' senior captains (including type rated sim trainers) were also rejected.

Furthermore, I believe that members of the BALPA CC were complicit in this process, having been bought off with a command. Why else would the relevant thread on the BALPA forum disappear?

[remoak]

You seriously expected the process to be transparent, fair and above board? And this is BA?

Surely you jest! :=:=:=

[skianyn vannin]

OK my mistake. However I didn't expect BALPA to crap on us. Hope PM enjoys his command.

[Sheikh Zabik]

PM.............What a buffoon.

An ego far larger than his ability.

Good riddance. We in FLYBE wont have to suffer his puerile posts on our Balpa web site any more.

[Captain Jumbo]

I now have a horrid feeling that turning down my Easyjet offer may prove to be one of my less good career decisions. :oh:
I understand the cheap cadets are failing conversion in greater numbers than expected, :cool: I also hear that the Management are not all in agreement that the policy of deliberate exclusion of experienced RJ type rated pilots is a good idea.
Summary: lots of potential for another BA cockup. I have an interview with BMED......don't hold your breath, PM is only the start of it.:hmm: The key factor (I beleive) is just the RBS factor - if that contract goes, so does the latest BACON product.

Just as a discussion point, I also reckon that Modderator and Remoak are the same person, deliberately stirring sh1t. Examine their language and phraseology - too close too call!:*

[remoak]

Sorry to rain on your parade there dude, but my opinion on Modderator is more or less the same as the sentiments expressed here. A simple examination will confirm that we aren't the same! Irepproachable logic and a dry wit on the one hand... Modderator on the other. Nice try though... :D:D:D:D

[Bad Robot]

Captain Jumbo, do you have an Airbus rating ?
If so, what on earth are you doing wasting your time with Bacon in the first place? :confused:

BR.

[Captain Jumbo]

You would not believe how many stupid decisions I have made over the last ten years - the worst was listening to the wife and deciding I would return to the regions rather than the London area. That one led directly to BRAL, BACON and all its problems, and constantly thinking that surely things can't get much worse...how wrong can you be! Now the optimists are saying we'll definitely end up on the BA seniority list, so all is secure - I just don't beleive it. I should have joined the EZY exodus, but once again, I thought that the RJ operation would be a winner - just goes to show my judgement ain't that good. (I suppose you could make a case that since I've been wrong all the way, I'm consistent, and therefore the future of BACityflier is assured........):ugh:

[Bad Robot]

I hear where you are coming from, I have made some pretty bad calls myself over the last few years.:{

BR.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Not just me then....

My sympathies guys. :{

[Captain Jumbo]

All of us I think, but who could really have predicted the shambles back when BA bought us up? Not many people admit to seeing all this cr@p coming, that's for sure.
The big question now is the NEXT decision, which has to be based on the future of Cityflyer. Seems to be lots of talk that now we're smaller and (ha ha) more profitable, we will eventually be quietly absorbed into mainline. I have difficulty with that one personally, but then if you consider the alternative, is there REALLY a secure future with such a small operation funded from the coat tails of BA? The optimists are talking about babybuses coming in time, but I think that would be against the BACC scheduling agreement, so that won't happen - at least, not for us.That means that if the RJs are replaced, if we are not in big BA, we're stuffed. Any comments from anyone, any thoughts? Problem is that the longer you delay a decision, the more difficult it gets, and you start to think that maybe it'll turn out OK. Problem is I've lost count of the times I've waited for an "announcement" thinking it would be good news, and every single time it's been bad. The luck has got to turn.:(

[marlowe]

I guess it all boils down to how serious Willy is about LCY,we have come from a situation where LCY was not promoted by BA to a stage where its the new buzz word around Waterworld. I always look at the little things going on that tend to give you a flavour of how they are thinking, for example. I no longer get a paper wageslip i have to access the BA intranet and check my wages from there, i have been with the company in its various forms for a long time and my personal view is that it will get swallowed up at some point by mainline. When BACF was set up i admit i was sceptical about being merged with mainline but as time goes by i am not so sure, assuming that we dont go bust hiring private aircraft and taxis!!!!!

[Tandemrotor]

The decision as to whether the BA operation at LCY will become 'mainline' or not hinges on which aircraft type is selected for the operation going forward.

If it's the A318, then it will become a mainline fleet, and I can't see BA waving goodbye to the current staff, and simply 'installing' it's own. The company will have little choice but to absorb Cityflyer AGAIN, and in exactly the same way as it did some years earlier. The only spanner in the works is, how soon LCY and the A318 can be 'married'!

If however, the choice of new aircraft is the RJ85, with leases running anywhere close to 2012 or beyond, then I'm afraid to say BA will have created a very lucrative 'stand alone' London based airline, with low staff costs. So it will be management bonuses all round, and no chance of mainline access for the current incumbents.

Since the RJ100 lease 'issue' needs to be adressed fairly soon, I don't think there will be too long to wait before the writing is on the wall.

[Captain Jumbo]

Interesting comment Tandem, thanks.
I suppose one could assume from those two scenarios that my job i safe whichever comes to pass. However....if your first option happens, ie the Babybuses, what would be your take on what would happen to me and my LHS colleagues? I know you don't know for certain, but do you think we would be grandfathered by base, or would we be displaced for mainline chaps who would be (presumably) already rated on such a type?
With your second option, I suppose that one has the attractiveness to BA of staying lo cost (relatively anyway) and retaining more freedom of manouvre and perhaps an attempt to expand those lo cost ethics into LGW. From my own perspective the second option is not attractive because it means the whole LCY operation remains vulnerable to the latest short term idea. Unfortunately I can't see BA wanting to suddenly increase the costs of the whole thing by making it part of mainline. Why in particular do you think that a move to the RJ85 means no mainline accession ever? I know the airplane is smaller, but why should that alone be a deal breaker?

However, as you say, the RJ leases are coming up, so someone will have to make a decision, make a decision, make a decision make a decision make a decision

BTW, did anyone hear a rumour about the departure of one of our very senior people into the ranks of the CAA?:uhoh:

[Blackcap]

BTW, did anyone hear a rumour about the departure of one of our very senior people into the ranks of the CAA?

Do tell us more. Surely not PH? or one of his relatives?

[Tandemrotor]

CJ

I'm sure you will appreciate, your ONLY chance of mainline access rests with the BA (BALPA) Company Council, and the will of the mainline pilot community. Certainly BA would never, under any circumstances, volountarily absorb BACF into mainline. Why would they?

If the fleet replacement is RJ85, (less than 100 seats) 'scope' is no longer a factor. BALPA would have no levers (nor interest?) to insist that BA absorb the pilots of this fleet onto the Master Seniority List. It would therefore become a stand alone airline, with associated low staff costs (salary, T&Cs, scheduling, hotels, etc.)

If A318 is identified as the fleet replacement aircraft, BA BALPA would (I hope??) be on the case immediately! Hopefully with the backing of the entire mainline community. In the event that the EDI pilot base was maintained, I would expect the outcome to be virtually identical to the old Cityflyer situation. In other words, any pilot on the RJ fleet would have protected 'grandfather' rights onto the shiny new fleet, (LHS-LHS!) and could not be displaced by LHR pilots, no matter how senior. (Maybe a 'regional' type pay scale though!)

Of course it is not inevitable that the EDI base would be maintained! It may be that the A318s could be operated simply as part of the much larger LHR Airbus fleet, possibly with dual report LHR/LCY.

In this case, I still think BACF pilots would be absorbed, though I suspect 'grandfather' rights may not be possible?? However, pay protection almost certainly would be available, to anyone wishing to work out of LHR/LGW.

The only grey area left is if the RJ100s are retained. This would be very interesting indeed, as it is quite clearly documented, that in this case, the RJ100 fleet becomes 'by default' a mainline fleet.

If this happens, and you want to be mainline, you better hope for a strong response from the BACC!

In any event, I can't see this operation folding. It now has a 'strategic' value to BA, which Bacon never had, and as such, should even withstand it's management with a well proven track record of incompetence, and shall we say, insincerity!

All the above said in the hope that no 'unforseen circumstance' has a detrimental effect on the new company! (If you know what I mean!)

Hope it all works out.

[towser]

Unforseen circumstance - you mean like operating an RJ from EDI to BHX and back ,with no pax, the sole purpose of which was to get 2 cabin crew to BHX.

[Captain Jumbo]

Thankyou TR, much appreciated.
What in your view are the options if the RJ100 is retained then? I suspect those leases will be very cheap given the lack of demand for the a/c elsewhere, and any (BA) beancounter can obviously make the figures say wht they like anyway. The drawback may be the operating cost, but the only advantage I can see for the '85 is the ability to lift a full load further out of LCY. The 318 is obviously a hugely better aeroplane, but the DOC must be an order of magnitude greater. Granted it can carry more pax, but it's still yield at the end of the day, and all our routes are not doing as well as they might. The on-cost of the mainline overhead may not be supportable.
In terms of seats at the pointy end, grandfather or no grandfather - doesn't bother me as long as the pay is protected, it's security I'm after.
Ref Blackcap's question, I was speaking with Nigel and Carl recently, the subject of PH and CAA came up, they seemed to think he had applied for the job in Flight. I thought it was a windup, but they seemed quite sure not.

[skianyn vannin]

I thought that it was Oliver Dobson who was leaving for the CAA.

[wacky]

Oliver must be another twice removed cousin or brother in law of PH then?

[nuageblanc]

hello,

are they recruiting low hour pilots ?
where do we have to send the ce? any emails .? :confused:


Guillaume

[towser]

I think they have all the low hours pilots they need either in training or holding pool. They only , I believe , recruit low hours guys directly from the flying schools.

[fly616]

Can anyone advise me on content of BA CityFlyer interviews?
I have one coming up in a few days!

[biddedout]

If there was to be a merger of CF into mainline, how would it be done? Sticking one group onto the bottom of a seniority list is just not in fashion these days. I guess the only corect way to merge would be on continuous service DoJ or something very close.

[Tandemrotor]

Hi Biddedout.

Nice try!

[biddedout]

OK tandem had to have a go:) . Interesting concept though. That's why I think it will not happen, because BA mgt know that it will cause endless aggro when somene makes a challenge and wins. Far easier to do another bacon and lie all along as they desperately try to wind it down and think of ways to lose all the pilots or keep whats left at arms length.

[Tandemrotor]

OK biddedout

BA already absorbed City Flyer once. All of their pilots were taken on at the bottom of the Master Seniority List. Grandfather rights applied. The precedent has been set. Is there some reason why it shouldn't occur again in the same way? After all, why haven't those people already made a challenge?

To be perfectly honest, the numbers involved, and perhaps more importantly, the rather low general experience levels of the current Cityflyer, mean that it probably wouldn't cause too many waves however it occured. Though I suspect a FLYBE style 'percentage' basis may not find favour! :rolleyes:

Though as you say, it is in any event, becoming inceasingly hypothetical, and particularly so if the promised RJ85s arrive. It will simply be a 'stand alone' airline.

[Hirsutesme]

Sadly, with other companies starting to muscle in to LCY, and the management team present, I dont think Cityflyer has any sort of long term future. I'd give it 3 years tops.

[Bond]

Hi Guys,
Just a quick question - Can anyone offer the current contact details, for BA City Flyer?
Thanks, in advance,
Bond.:ok:

[Blackcap]

So what has become of Hutch and Deacon? Understand the boy is running the show now?

[FlyboyUK]

Bond, think the HQ is Pioneer House in Didsbury

Last I heard of Deacon, he was headed GB's way

[marlowe]

BA upper management at LCY tomorrow(7th june) any ideas on why?, what might be said?

[biddedout]

WW Will announce that it has two years to perform, otherwise it will be closed or sold.:sad:.

David Evans is to be brought back to manage the operation as it merges with Gatwick.:) going forward with his people to create the largest regional airline in Europe. :rolleyes: DE and his dedicated team are looking forward to a long and prosperous future and hare already eyeing up office space just at the end of the Mall, near the big fountains.

The new superairline will be called - Logabrymanxshag.

The logo will include images of large rodents and ships.

I expect it to be a huge success, but in the extremely unlikely event that it isn't, it will of course be everyone else's fault, especially BALPA and the wrong sort of pasengers.

[GWYN]

............if The Boy IS running the show ..............will he actually take his hands out of his pockets..............??

[HORKA]

Can the BACON people give the GB crew the run down on their new man
D Deacon ?

[towser]

They must of offered him a large amount of money cause he was going to the CAA.

[marlowe]

Nice letter gone out to the cabin crew today from Cityflyer, explaining that the FDP will now not be tax free as stated in the terms and conditions and as per contract that they all signed in good faith.But will infact be taxed at 18% over the full £2.20 amount, so in real terms that means they are 10 pence in the pound worse off than they were under BACON!!! I guess the company could be held in breach of contract?

[towser]

Marlowe if you mean they are worse off than when Bacon flight pay was tax free then you are correct but they are actually 10p per hr better off than when it was taxed in Bacon . (if that makes any sense!!)

[marlowe]

Towser yes i was taking it from when the FDP went tax free in BACON .

[biddedout]

The FDP went tax free in BAcon after a long period of joint negotiations betwen the TAX office BAcon and BA LGW, or so we were told. So why have they now changed it and has there been a similar change to FDP / TAFB in BA? Similar has happened in Flybe because someone told the tax office that we get provided with lots of delicious crew meals. Try telling that to anyone caled off standby to work off schedule and nightstop.

Time for an acrooss the board FDP for the whole industry.

[CheekyVisual]

This is not confined to Flyer and Fly Be or indeed aviation. Gordon has got his money hungry dogs sniffing around every industry looking for tax free portions of salary. Having seen the letter sent to Fly Be it makes it clear the revenue see FDP as a profit on behalf of the crew. That means it has to be taxed. Only the proportion of an allowance that covers an actual expense can be tax free. If this hasn't hit you yet it will. They are looking at every company. Any non taxable amount now has to be proved by each company through a receipts exercise. Easy for those with nightstops harder for those on day trips only.

Due to the amount of touring at flyer a receipts exercise should restore a large proportion of the tax free allowance.

Gordon needs the cash to waste on illegal wars and unhanded IT companies and he wants it from us !

[marlowe]

It just seems wrong that CF had the £2.20 tax free written into the contracts that the cabin crew signed in good faith, and then just blame the tax office when they cant deliver. Surely both parties entered into a legally binding contract when the contract was offered and then signed, so surely CF are breaking the contract by not delivering a contractual obligation now? After all i am sure that the tax free status on the FDP would have influenced some people to join the company given the amount of tours.

[MANAGP]

HORKA

Just be wary, very wary!

[marlowe]

managep. so what we got to be wary about? if you know something please enlighten the rest of us instead of being all mysterious!!!!

[The Little Prince]

Herewith a brief description of the main character played by Leonardo de Caprio in "Catch me if you can". Of course, some may mistakenly apply the description to other individuals.....
He is - very intelligent, exceptionally ambitious, not very practical, zero people skills, zero staff loyalty, enjoys stackbabbing, totally self oriented, poseur extraordinaire, used to be addicted to cabin crew, fundamentally untrustworthy.
A great movie!:E

[Mike Mercury]

Never mind 'Leonardo', I hear that 'Hutcho' has turned down BA RHS 747 + guaranteed management job for the dee-eff-ohship at Silverjet. Remarkable from both the individual and the corporate perspective. Mind you, I'd love to know how his redundancy package compared with a line pilot!

Oh, and BTW (customer report):

In early June ’07 I was scheduled to on Silverjet from EWR to LTN and return a few days later. On the morning of my outbound flight I went to Silverjet's website to check my flight’s status - it said cancelled due to mechanical problem. I immediately called Silverjet and the agent informed me that she would call me back within a half hour. After 45 minutes with no call I called Silverjet again. The agent informed me that she could get me an economy class seat on a Virgin flight a few hours after Silverjet's scheduled departure. I told her that wouldn't do - I wanted a business class seat since that is what I paid for, and I needed an earlier flight or else I would miss my first meeting in London. The Silverjet agent told me that the Virgin economy class seat on the flight she offered me was all she could do for me - effectively telling me take it or leave it. I left it. I cancelled my Silverjet ticket and got a full refund. I then booked a last minute ticket on BA. I found Silverjet's "mechanical problems" excuse suspect. A few days before the flight I logged in to change my seat and noted the flight was only one quarter full. Though I don't know, I'm inclined to believe that when flights are not sufficiently full and it is uneconomic for it to operate the flight, Silverjet cancels the flight, tells customers it is for mechanical reasons and offers them an economy class seat on another airline. I will not give Silverjet another chance. Not only did I not appreciate being left in the lurch by Silverjet, I was left with the very unpleasant feeling that I'd been scammed.
'Hutcho' will feel at home here.......

[Tandemrotor]

Mike Mercury

If you are correct about PH, perhaps he won't be out of the BA 'fold' for very long!!

Watch this space for the next BA franchise??

Purely hypothetical of course. :rolleyes:

[FAStoat]

In the past,any Budget InterEuropean Airline taken over or part taken over by BA European Div,makes for an Ideal Direct Entry Command on the RJ85 or 100,,or if you like the 195,by Retired @55 Mainline Captains on low Salaries,since they have already their full Final salary BA Pension.Any one thought of that before.In a past life we called them KLINGONS,and watched for them off the starboard bow.In spite of management denials,they soon became full TRI/TRE or the then equivalent,and installed the BA BxxlSxxt.It meant poor SFOs had even more time to wait,and reduced LH seaters to even more waiting for proper jet salaries.,and Training Captains had to put up with it.With regard to Flybe,you only have to look at who is running it to find a very ruthless individual.His history at his previous Airline left a lot to be desired,when Jets were put into Leeds;the pax figures were adjusted and all seats were found to be full when they were not,and surprise, Jersey European got the business.We lost the Jets at Leeds, and then the Exeter Base and then ALL the Channel Island business.Certain complicit management left to join him,and now Flybe is the result.I would beware of that as well,for the future.

[zzz]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[MANAGP]

Marlowe

The Little Prince has summed it up better than I ever could!

[skianyn vannin]

Well its not very often I agree with The Little Prince, however this time he's hit the nail squarely on the head. Did forget one bit though. CP can't fly worth a ****. Anyone remember the Barbie Jet incident when he got his astronauts wings?

[ppl_student]

Does anyone here have any inside info about how many places will be available on the latest FTE scheme?

Also, to anyone who has been through the selection in the past, what is involved in the final stage interview? Are there any group exercises etc?

Thanks for any pointers :)

[BAladdy]

The much awaited RJ85 are now due Q1/2008

Aircraft are Blue1's OH-SAH and OH-SAI. Aircraft returning to Bae and then to be leased to BACF

Also new advertising campaign to start to promote LCY to leisure aswell as business pax

[DutchBird-757]

1st one will be delivered in Feb08. 2nd one somewhat later. Both aircraft come with all the available options from BAE. (ie Acars, GNLU)

[HZ123]

I assume that they replace the Rj100's. I must be missing the point with less capacity and more competition how will the RJ85 make equal / more monies.

[Bacon Slicer]

Just found this thread after a while away - It was dire then and it is clearly dire now- why oh why does BA not put this sad operation out of its misery? is it some sort of gentleman's club or a
masons lodge?

CP , the stuffy PH and that silly DD should be made at last to walk the plank!



AA xx


Little Prince - maybe we could celebrate in the pub with a small sherry afterwards?

[DutchBird-757]

In order to centralise all the BA Cityflyer info, I'll make a small summary of the latest developments. Please post further replies concerning the company in this thread, whenever possible.

What I'd like to add.
Aircraft wise:
- 2 x RJ85 from Blue1. 1st one will arrive in February, second one in June of 2008. My guess is theyll be used on the longer runs óut of LCY where our RJ100's are more restricted. (MAD/WAW)
- 2 RJ100's, (AR/AS) will remain in the fleet bringing the total number or a/c to 12.(includes the 2 RJ85's)

Destinations:
- BACF from LCY will drop Milan and raise ZRH from 4 to 5 daily. Furthermore there will be 4 new destinations added to the network from LCY. Thus going from 7 to 10 destinations. Being;

LCY - AMS, from 6th may 2008 4x daily (+ KLM 6x daily and VLM 12x daily)
LCY - WAW, from 6th may 2008 daily
LCY - BCN, from 6th may 2008 daily
LCY - NCE, from 6th march daily

Release here: http://www.flightline.co.uk/travelne...es-new-routes/

-AMS and ZRH are gonna be nightstops.

Crew:
- Flightcrew based in EDI and GLA. (pilots from GLA area are given choice to operate flights out of GLA, incl the nightstops, as their preference)
- Cabincrew base also in LCY
- Still cabin and flightdeck training in progress. Flightdeck wise I think the next class will start in Jan 2008. More info is welcome...
- Recruitment lately? Anyone?

Pay/contract/bond wise:
- I haven't got a clue of what's going on right now. So if anyone can fill us in, please do so. (keep it constructive pls, no bashing :D)

Future:
- Well, who knows. The aircraft are getting older. Don't think we'll ever merge fully into BA mainline as I don't think BA (unions) will allow our aircraft (100+ seats) to be base in London area, same with our crew force. My thought is that BACF will base the 2 RJ85's in LCY once there's space available. The're below 100 seats so mainline can't refuse that. (right?!)
- Expansion is a welcome sight and a promising note of how BA mainline sees BA Citflyer.
- New/improved catering concept on domestic and international flights offered in Club and Traveller. Together with the cabin enhancements brought in from BA mainline.
- Lot's of rumors about new aircraft to replace the current RJ's. But that's life and nobody knows anything constructive. So keep speculating... :ok:

If I forgot anything, or you disagree, then feel free to respond. But as said before, keep it constrcutive and :mad: free.

[DutchBird-757]

He FlatBroke,

We are still reqruiting F/O's at the moment as far as I'm aware. We currently have more f/o's than captains but the numbers are getting more equal as we speak. There are a couple of new f/o classes starting next year for sure.

The future looks bright. BA's investing and is positively involved, we're expanding and things like the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games and LCY expanding surely help. The routes are doing well also.


Good luck with the applying!

[Luibar]

Good evening

What is the pay for captains?

Thank you

[Sir Thomas]

I think that all the flightcrew are based in EDI. They can ,If their trip starts with a positioning or operating sector out of GLA, start there.I believe crewing will allow people that, but officially everyone is still in EDI to the best of my knowledge.
ta ta

[DutchBird-757]

Correct indeed. All based in EDI but able to give GLA preference to rostering. Seems to work very well from what I've heared.

[MIKECR]

Anyone know what the preferred method of application is for FO's?

[MIKECR]

Thanks for the info. Im based within 45 mins of both EDI and GLW so just wondering if theyre interested in local guys at all. I've got my fATPL(modular) but a little low on hours(just short of 400)

[towser]

If you don't ask you never know but as LF says there seems to be a surplus of F/O's at the minute and still a few being trained.

[MIKECR]

Very true! The online system wont accept any new applications at present though. Anyone know who's best to write to or email?