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gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 13:57
Should I bother following all the relevant regulations (Fused Isolators, 10mm cable, RCD's etc), or just bury a bit of old cable and attach it to one of the £9.99 RCD plugs from B+Q.

Will it really make any difference ?

Do you think I should get out more?

G-CPTN
12th Dec 2006, 14:09
If you suspect that you or anyone else might dig in the area near the cable, then, in my opinion you MUST use an armoured cable, regardless if you bury it or hang it like a washing line or whatever between (fastened to pegs hammered into the ground).
Beyond that, you can either wire it to your distribution board (via a fused box) or simply plug it into a socket (maybe via an RCB).


That's what 'I' would do anyhoo.

mary_hinge
12th Dec 2006, 14:14
I wouldnít bother burying the cable, just clip it to the washing line, much less hassle and you donít have to look for a spade.:E

(on second thoughts if you have a rotary washing line it wonít reach the shed and just turn itís self into a an electric patio heater)

Serious note: Donít bury the standard household cable, it will brake down fairly quickly, and cause problems.

gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 14:16
Cheers G-CPTN,

I wasn't keen on using the armoured stuff, as it looks a bit complicated joining it to other wire. I was t'inking of putting it in some of that placky conduit from Wickes and burying it quite deep( about a 18inches-2 foot).

Its ony gonna run a few low wattage items in the proposed shabeen.

G-CPTN
12th Dec 2006, 14:23
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A331783&ts=33272&id=84106

Huck
12th Dec 2006, 14:30
You can use conduit at both ends where it emerges from the dirt.

frostbite
12th Dec 2006, 15:48
Getting on for 25 years ago I strung some 75' of 6mm twin and earth from my gutter bracket down to my shed. Aside from the support of a tree in the centre, that's it.

I have a 15a switch at each end and the cable is totally unprotected throughout its length. It survived the '87 hurricane and looks like it's good for years yet.

tony draper
12th Dec 2006, 15:57
Don't involve officialdom or they are likely to condem yer shed,or start charging you extra councill tax forrit.
:uhoh:
Of course another good way is to tap yer supply off a nearby streetlamp,saves yer a few bob that does.
:rolleyes:

brain fade
12th Dec 2006, 16:34
AS someone else put, proper wire armoured is the best. If you just stick a bit of 6 milli twin and earth in a bit pipe it will do fine.
You can also pop a bit phone line in too while you're at it. Its practically free and if you ever want a phone out there, no prob.

Only one thing. DON'T put the cable in a pipe desigbed for other services ie gas or water. Someone may cut it with the wrong tool one day and get zapped. Just get some cheap service ducting or plastic white leccy conduit and use that.

Tricky Woo
12th Dec 2006, 16:47
Dismantle yer shed and rebuild it in yer living room.

Hope this helps.

TW

gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 17:03
Dismantle yer shed and rebuild it in yer living room.

The wife spends most of her time in there, hence the need for said shed:)

green granite
12th Dec 2006, 17:09
Don't go down the route of burying, it keep it obvious, if asked its a tempory supply, because temporary supplies do not need to be to in full compliance with the regs, just fusing at below the current capacity of the cable a bit of support and properly connected at each end. RCD is optional but sensible.

Tricky Woo
12th Dec 2006, 17:17
Hmm, then relocate yer shed right next to your kitchen window. Added advantage that yer can also route a water pipe next to the electric cable. Oh and a gas pipe. Hmm, might need to think that through a bit more.

Also yer wife won't have to shout so loudly when yer tea's ready.

TW

tony draper
12th Dec 2006, 17:24
Nah,be like a hermit having his cave right next to a pub that would.
:rolleyes:

gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 17:24
Thanks Tony, cost me thirty quid for the council wallers to tell me I didn't need planning permission.

The shabeen/retreat/shed will be as far away from the house as possible!

Daft question, but how do I work out what fuse I need for the cable ??

And does an RCD do the same job as a fuse?

Tricky Woo
12th Dec 2006, 17:32
Abandon yer shed completely.

Move all yer plant pots, lawn mower, weedkiller, plant feeds, watering cans, tools and implements, the whole kit 'n' kaboodle, move the bloody lot into yer spare bedroom wot already has perfectly serviceable electrical sockets in the walls, light bulbs above, and nice chintz curtains. Oh, and it has a proper bathroom next door which beats a slash in the compost heap any day.

Paint the walls brown or line 'em with rough cut wood, if yer miss the shed-like ambience. Build a pulley system outside the window so yer can lower yer gardening tools down when yer need 'em. A much more worthy project for a man of your talents than diggin' some wanky channel for a power cable, methinks. Think of the admiring looks you'll get!

The best idea yet. Yer very very welcome, mate.

TW

one dot right
12th Dec 2006, 17:37
And does an RCD do the same job as a fuse?
Nope, nothing like. You'll need both. An RCD (residual current device) detects any electricity not flowing through the chosen apparatus (which could be flowing to ground through a person) and switches off.
A fuse (or more recently a Master Circuit Breaker) allows a pre-determined amount of current before blowing or tripping.

You can get things called RCBO's(dunno what that stands for) which are a combined RCD and Circuit breaker.
Hope this helps.

slim_slag
12th Dec 2006, 17:43
If you want to do it yourself try to get a length of cable in the old colours, easier to keep nosey bloody authorities happy if you that as you can tell them you did it before the new regs came in. Don't forget the network cable as wireless is crap down a garden and who knows what you can run down that in the future. Think it's about time I had a new luxury hideaway at bottom of garden and this new Part P is a damned nuisance. Had a chat with friendly electrician about putting power in and as it's a long garden he started going on about bloody earthing rods. Might just get local farmer to put trench in down under borders, but problem with that is the ultimate authority round here i.e the missis.

If it's on the boundary you might need building regs. Don't tell planning anything, if you want to put an extension in later they might count the shed as part of new development. You never know what tricks they will pull just to p1ss you off.

gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 17:57
Thanks for the tips, I did want to gain the "authority" of the planning dept, I guess to save the hassle of the worry- they said the proposed building is exempt- I guess 'cos its 5m away from the house and under a certain size and % of the garden size.

Scouting on the web, it looks like it'll be exempt from building regs, as it's under 30m squared.

It's gotta be big enough for the surf board, the tools, bit of a work bench and amsterdam booth I'm building.

Already the ginge is hassling me about the garden space it'll take up.

Is it a female thing not understanding ?

potkettleblack
12th Dec 2006, 18:09
I found a website called diynot.com that was really useful for this sort of thing. If you have a gander in the electrical forums your project is discussed regularly.

If it was me I would spend the money and go for armoured cable and bury it deep and also get a small consumer unit for the shed. You can get purpose made ones for just this sort of job that will come with the mcbs etc and give you peace of mind. Shouldn't cost more than £100 all up for the bits and pieces. As already linked to above Screwfix seems to be the cheapest place I have found, even better with their next day delivery.

M.Mouse
12th Dec 2006, 18:32
Why not take the advice of all the people who obviously know little about the subject, after all you will only burn the shed down or kill somebody if it is not done quite right.

As for the person who said an RCD is not needed that is not strictly true either.

If you are unsure then get somebody to do it for you or seek advice on how to do it properly, rather than the risk life and limb.

TheOddOne
12th Dec 2006, 19:15
I used a 'spare' length of armoured twin & earth - it was actually off the end of a reel and was really scrap - honest!

However, it was just the right length to go under the extension and in a trench I dug for the purpose. It's properly wired in to a consumer unit under the stairs, all protected by an RCB; absolutely essential in my view as I run garden tools and the pond pump from it. The shed's got a 'ring' in it with double sockets and a lighting circuit but the power drain is usually very small, enough for the lights and charging model aircraft batteries etc. I sometimes run a 1kw heater off it but that's well within its capabilities.

It's been there 20 years and will likely see me out...

Cheers,
TheOddOne

gingernut
12th Dec 2006, 19:25
Yeh Mickey,

I could pay someone £300 plus, to install belt and braces wiring, but surely if I get the mcb/fuse/rcd/cable rating right it'll do. Its only tightning a few screws after all.Isn't it?

ORAC
12th Dec 2006, 19:36
Wire it up? Paah!
get thee a tilley lamp (http://www.tilleylamp.co.uk/lamps.htm). Nowt like it, a nice bright light, warms the place up, a good shed like aroma and good to look at. When the power cuts come you'll be snug as a bug in a rug with yer neighbours envious outside staring in like lost magi.... :ok:

Lost_luggage34
12th Dec 2006, 19:56
Part 'P' of the Building Regs should help you decide.

M.Mouse
12th Dec 2006, 20:01
Its only tightning a few screws after all.Isn't it?

Spot on, what's a human life anyway?

You want it when?
12th Dec 2006, 20:15
Run some conduit down the fence about a foot off the ground, RCD and a switch at the source and a switch / panel at the end. Some heavy duty-ish cable in between should do it - canabalise an old extension lead. Total cost should not exceed £20.

Easy job take about an hour to do.

one dot right
12th Dec 2006, 20:31
Oh dear,

M Mouse probably knows what he's talking about, but other other offers of running an old extension lead really are asking for trouble. You need to know what the max loads you're going to apply are and size the cable accordingly. To be on the safe side if you go for 6mm squared cable you shouldn't have any probs.

He is right,don't f*ck with what you don't understand.

M.Mouse
12th Dec 2006, 20:37
If using plastic conduit it will offer little in the way of impact protection, will go brittle in the sun, and twist and distort for the same reason assuming the fence doesn't blow down first.

Some heavy duty-ish cable in between should do it - canabalise(sic) an old extension lead

That made me laugh as the two parts of the statement are mutually contradictory.

An RCD is not necessarily needed at the source end if the house is already protected by an RCD of the necessary sensitivity.

Armoured cable is the cheapest and most effective way of PROPERLY doing the job. If you can't terminate armoured cable then try finding somebody who can.

A long time ago I was asked by a lady I met why her lounge lights were flickering when anybody walked across the room upstairs. It transpired that the previous owner fancied rewiring the house because it is dead easy (as everybody here seems to imply as well).

I disconnected half the house wiring and had to completely rewire the house pronto. The smouldering connections and cables laid OVER joists with boards laid on top were a sight to behold.

I might be able to find the gentlemen's contact details. He could definitely help wire your shed cheaply.

It just occurred to me that with plethora of dangerous suggestions so far is it any real suprise that our nanny government has recently effectively outlawed so much DIY electrical work.

ShyTorque
12th Dec 2006, 21:52
Yes don't forget, folks - the newspapers are full of electrocution stories due to folks ignoring the nanny state. The new wiring is more dangerous due to the new EU colours and so it needs an electrician to sign it off. He might do it in the pub, if you buy him another pint. Then you can sell your house with a clear conscience, 'cos you have produced that all important piece of paper, which makes it totally safe.

Alternatively, you can do the same crappy wiring outside and run the end of the cable through your loo window and plug it into a socket inside the house and it's totally legal. Easy. :rolleyes:

Loose rivets
12th Dec 2006, 22:19
Look! just make sure that red electrickery comes out of red wires and black electrickery comes out of black wires....oh, and if you spill any, due to leaving a socket on with no plug in it, make sure you have a green and yellow wire to soak it up.

Warning. You mix red and black electrickery at your peril.:\


Now, on a more sensible note...I'm getting a serious attack of Déjà vu.

We did this one a year or so ago and anyone that recalls my input would know that I have spent a huge amount of time all but shouting about RCDs -- in all their forms.

It now seems that even if you cop hold of both wires that there is still a good chance that there will be enough dis-balance in the load -- due to stray leakage -- that the device will save your life.

If you're convinced, then why not put it up-stream of your run to the shed, it will serve to fault-find the entire run (leaks to ground or you) 24/7.

M.Mouse
12th Dec 2006, 23:10
Not quite sure I understand the last post but if I recall the maths correctly a straight leak to earth will trip a 30ma sensitivity RCD/RCCB/ELCB (or whatever they are called this week), where the supply is at 50 Hertz, in approximately 1.5 Hertz, ergo, unlikely to kill a healthy individual.

Hence the reason that the regulations changed in the late 80s (IEE Regulations Edition 15, 1981, I think:8 ) to state that any socket likely to be used for equipment outdoors must be protected by a 30ma sensitivity RCD. I am a few years out of touch now but that change ushered in the era we now have where RCDs are the norm rather than only required on overhead supplies where the earth continuity was provided by an stake in the ground.

Anybody remember the old voltage sensitve breakers required, if again I recall correctly, where the earth impedance was of a certain level? Life seemed so much simpler then.

Some of the clowns offering advice here would have been so much more at home too.

Some interesting statistics:

Number of deaths from accidental exposure to electric current in England and Wales, 1994 to 2003

Number of deaths:
1994 37
1995 42
1996 36
1997 39
1998 37
1999 50
2000 41
2001 34
2002 24
2003 25

Blues&twos
12th Dec 2006, 23:29
Advice about fitting a suitable RCD is all correct. They work by "detecting" a difference between the phase conductor and the neutral conductor currents. This then causes the tripping mechanism (usually electro-mechanical but can be electronic) to operate. Don't fit one that trips at greater than 30mA, this is all it takes to stop a heart! Make sure you periodically operate the test button as these can fail.
Interestingly, most people who suffer mains electric shocks and survive do so becuase of the resistance of their skin - has happened to me in my youth. Now thankfully I have experience and better knowledge to fall back on. Water on your hands or equipment reduces this resistance significantly.:uhoh:

Don't bugger about with electricity unless you know what you're doing!!

terryJones
13th Dec 2006, 00:02
Loose rivets
A lot of this was covered last year, albeit not too reverently ...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=224554

bacardi walla
13th Dec 2006, 01:55
All I used was a standard 20m extension lead for my "spare time antics"....

BEFORE
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/1.jpg

AFTER
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/2.jpg

and a couple of extra one's !!

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/3.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/4.jpg

Blacksheep
13th Dec 2006, 02:25
Please believe me, Electrickery is very dangerous to amateurs.

PM me to make e-mail contact and I'll send you a copy of an article from the autumn 2005 edition of the Institute of Electrical Engineers' monthly publication 'Wiring Matters'. Three pages with big pictures that show three different ways to do it properly. Its just as easy and almost as cheap, to do it the right way rather than bodging it.

Great train set bacardi wallah :ok:

...but there's no room left for the massage chair and the pool table.

tony draper
13th Dec 2006, 08:04
ooh! thats a posh shed Mr Walla,If I had a shed like that and could get meals on wheels delivered I would never leave it:rolleyes:

Tricky Woo
13th Dec 2006, 08:42
Hmm, always wanted a choo-choo train to play with. Sadly not given one as a wee sprog. Swiss Grandpa was similarly afflicted when he were a lad, and even worse he had two daughters so unable to close the gap.
However, our luck's up 'cos not only am I a papa these days, but I'm a papa of two wee lads. Hence he's the grandfather of two lads (and one granddaughter, but she's irrelevent to the choo choo train story).

Anyways, then Rafael turned two (he's now 3 years) he was presented with a wee Brio wooden train set. Bloody great they is, and he was just old enough to be interested in the train part of the equation, and didn't simply bang the pieces against the nearest mirror or vase as the wee ones are wont to do.

Sure enough, Papa sees the lack of something or other in the train set, and starts to come home with this bit or that bit. As did Swiss Grandpa. Pretty soon the wee train set has reached mammoth proportions, and can quite literally fill the living room floor.

http://www.brilliantpebbles.com/cp/displayimage.php?pos=-1479

And that's where we are with the wooden train set. Of course Luis (1 year) simply loves to pick up some bit or piece of the track and bang it against the window. Drives Rafael bananas.

TW

p.s. Anyone know what I have to do to get the bloody image to appear? It's showing as a URL...

ORAC
13th Dec 2006, 08:47
As long as you don´t buy him one of them telescope thingies. Those what get those usually turn out weird.......


Anyhows, who ever heard of a shed with a sliding roof.....

tony draper
13th Dec 2006, 08:52
Ah I got the Hornby OO, just a wee tank engine, one alus lusted after the Dutchess of Athol though.
:rolleyes:
Actually one had a shed built onto me roof for me telescope Mr ORAC

Gainesy
13th Dec 2006, 11:47
one alus lusted after the Dutchess of Athol though.


Me too, but we didn't miss much, since heard she was a lousy shag.

ShyTorque
13th Dec 2006, 12:29
I was going to say something about the old boiler, too. ;)

G-CPTN
13th Dec 2006, 12:35
I HAD the Duchess of Athol . . .

Went like a train she did . . .

tony draper
13th Dec 2006, 12:42
Well one recals the Hornby Dutchess of Athol as a thing of Beauty,most prefered Sir Nigel,but not I, there was a dint in the toy shop window from one's nose pressing thither, I think she was about seven pounds then, a sum as far out of reach for us sprogs as the moon.
:rolleyes:
Hmmm,strange on has just googled Dutchess of Athol but could find no image of the lady the first two links are to previous proon threads on the subject where one mention one's childhood longing.

Gainesy
13th Dec 2006, 12:55
After a quick gloggle, it seems such OO locos go now for £105!:uhoh:

tony draper
13th Dec 2006, 12:57
Good grief one thinks that how much one's old dad paid for the house we were living in at the time.
:rolleyes:

ORAC
13th Dec 2006, 13:06
Perhaps one should google the Duchess of Atholl, Mr D...

http://images.npg.org.uk/OCimg/weblg/7/9/mw45279.jpg

Groundgripper
13th Dec 2006, 13:17
Good grief one thinks that how much one's old dad paid for the house we were living in at the time

Try buying any of Marklin's products these days. I seem to remember from a visit to the model railway museum (and several shops - "just browsing, dear") in Interlaken last summer that 500 to 700 Swiss Francs is not an unusual price for an engine:eek: I was very taken with the HO gauge engine and rake of twelve double-decker coaches that make up a standard inter-city train in that part of the world but unfortunately it would have cost more that the holiday for both of us.:uhoh:

GG

TBirdFrank
13th Dec 2006, 13:45
Ten years ago - almost to the week - we did the last mainline run of the Duchess of Hamilton from London to Glasgow and then from Glasgow to York and then "stuffed and mounted" ever since.

Highlights

97mph from Penrith to Carlisle with a 75mph limit. The driver hopped off at Carlisle - it was his last ever turn - and into retirement. When asked WTBH were you up to? he simply responded. "What would you do with an HST up your axxe?"

Stopped for water on the top of Beattock in the dark next to the M74 - all of a sudden there's blue lights on the motorway screaming to a halt alongside us - A nice well meaning lady had reported a train "on fire" - It certainly was!

So - to commemmorate this stalwart run the organiser, Mel had arranged for one of the bevy of current Duchesses (It appears the Duke changes them frequently and once a Duchess, so they remain with subtle changes in style as others come along) to travel and present her favourite self named fir trees to the mayors along the route.

So Mel says to me late on during the second day - would you like to meet the Duchess? - meet the Duchess says I - the only duchess I'm interested in is that big fiery beast up front - not realising that the nice lady is stood right behind me - oh well - no nobility for me!

ShyTorque
13th Dec 2006, 17:06
Joking apart, having now wound up M. Mouse a little (squeak), I've just been to Halfords for other reasons, (Mmm lovely, nice). I noticed they sell an outdoor extension cable (25m?) ready wired to a socket unit for caravans / tents (orange cable, blue weather proof plug). The unit has 3 x 13 amp outlets and an RCD breaker unit built in @ £89.99.

If this was plugged into an RCD socket (to protect the full length of the cable) either on an external wall or inside your garage for example, it would do the job and would be exempt the regulations as it would not be classed as a permanent setup. You could route the cable wherever it suited your purpose.

Having said this, in truth I would hard wire a setup using the recommended armoured cable below ground, or using a conduit above ground. I would prefer it above ground as it is extremely wet in my neighbourhood. If the cable is buried, don't forget the "warning" tape that is supposed to be laid on top in an effort to stop some future navvy confusing it with a tree root and going at it with a shovel or pick.

Keef
13th Dec 2006, 19:29
Part P is total overkill ( :) ) but I can see why they ended up going that way.

We bought a cottage in Norfolk a couple of years ago. It was beautifully and lovingly restored by a couple who'd spent many years and all their savings on it - then decided they wanted to live in France. So far so good.

He said the electrical work had been done by the local NICEIC wallah. I started to wonder when the missus said she got a shock off the tap. I pulled the yellow and green wire that disappeared behind the sink (the one connected to the "Safety Electrical Earth, Do Not Remove" tag) and the wire came out from the wall. It was only a couple of feet long and not connected to anything. (It is now).

He put lights round the garden (nice idea). They're fed by 2.5mm T&E cable in black conduit, well fixed to the fence. Unfortunately, he didn't bother to join the earth wires together at each light, and he put the switch in the neutral, so the live ran right round the garden all the time. There was no ELCB/ECCD and only a 13 amp fuse. That was the nearest I've seen to a booby trap in this country.

I spent several weeks making the place safe, including fitting RCCBs (one upstream, so it trips if I hit the cable to the shed with a pickaxe, or a squirrel chews it). I'm not "Part P approved" but fortunately this was before those regs came in. I have very strong views, now, on the dabbling with electrickery of those who don't know what they're doing.

You spend a long time dead - as I don't usually say in funeral orations.

mad_jock
13th Dec 2006, 20:14
Me dad collects all that OO three rail stuff.

He goes to a huge toy Auction in Montrose and buys allsorts. Crap old track gets cleaned and fixed. He must have enough of it now to get from ABZ to London.

They are a bit weird though these 3 track guys. I saw one bloke buy a knackard old Sir Nigel for £120 quid. I couldn't quite get my head around it when he gave the train to a young kid. Apparently the box was mint and he had a mint train to put in it.

When dad bought the crane and the mail station thing it was hidden until my granny passed away. When they were new they were priced in multiples of weeks wages. It took him 35 years but he won the argument in the end but he wasn't brave enough to tell her.

frostbite
13th Dec 2006, 21:07
I have always rated Queen Noor quite highly.

http://www.noor.gov.jo/index.htm

dontpickit
13th Dec 2006, 21:30
I have always rated Queen Noor quite highly.

http://www.noor.gov.jo/index.htm

:ok: Frostbite, second you on that. This is better that train sets isn't it?

bacardi walla
13th Dec 2006, 22:28
My layout was N gauge, smaller than OO and more expensive :ugh:

At about 4" long, look at the detail

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/5.jpg

And for those interested, this was my first attempt at building a model railway complete with working street lights, signals and house lights :D
Not built in a shed though, it was built in the barn in the garden where electrics were of a better standard :p

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/6.jpg

tony draper
13th Dec 2006, 22:41
I remember in the fifties at Christmas they always had a huge working 00 layout in the Central Station in Newcastle,one of the christmas treats was being taken across to see it,don't suppose they have owt like that now it would be nicked the first night.
:uhoh:

M.Mouse
14th Dec 2006, 00:06
Best picture I can find of a Duchess of Athol (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-Dublo-Duchess-of-Athol_W0QQitemZ190050089254QQihZ009QQcategoryZ112505QQcmdZVi ewItem)

I still have all of my Hornby three rail railway including a Duchess of Athol locomotive.

I don't use it much lately because I need to fit an RCD to the 12 volt power supply, one cannot be too careful.

TBirdFrank
14th Dec 2006, 02:14
Is there a way to make sure that Mr Lexx never reads this thread - properly wired up barns containing model railways - grandson etc - my life is flashing before my eyes!

Now one to one scale with a fire in the back end - now you're talking

RatherBeFlying
14th Dec 2006, 02:56
In the days before cell phones, a telephone installer alligator clipped his expensive handset to a drop wire and watched his handset melt down:uhoh:

It turned out that the customer had helped himself to an old run from the telephone pole to the house and used it to light his garage:\

The stuff is quite robust, but has only two conductors. Much better these days to protect the circuit.

Loose rivets
14th Dec 2006, 06:14
Nah, this is posh totty:

http://www.kongehuset.no/digimaker/pictures/Hje.sideKPM-beskytterskap_IZ5vKSap.jpg




Yes, yes...but has she had a train named after her?:}

gingernut
14th Dec 2006, 07:18
So am I right in thinking:

1) the cable thickness should represent the load (any suggestions).

2) AN RCD (<=30MA) should be wired into the house end.

3) A fuse should be wired into the house/shed end, the rating of which should determine that it blows prior to melting the cable in (1).- how do I work this out

4) Using plastc conduit is ok underground

5) I should disconnect system prior to selling the house (I'm hoping to die here- not of ELECTROCUTION)

6) Keef is likely to say "I told you so" if I get it wrong :)

Blacksheep
15th Dec 2006, 05:00
gingernut, please PM me. Seriously.

slim_slag
15th Dec 2006, 08:32
So am I right in thinking:
1) the cable thickness should represent the load (any suggestions).Take a look at IEE publication (http://tinyurl.com/b2zmk) which has references to regulations you should look at. Basically what you want to do is simple stuff, O-level physics level at the most, but has to be done correctly. Helps to see one done before, bit like surgery and flying an aeroplane :) What system of earthing does your house use? If you don't know that then you should stop and think about things.

You need to 'notify' this, but round these parts the council will send a man from building control to do the paperwork and it costs £80. Building control are very helpful and will probably tell you to get an electrician.
6) Keef is likely to say "I told you so" if I get it wrong :)Yes, but when he pops off you get to tell him he got it wrong too :)

gingernut
15th Dec 2006, 15:14
thanks Slim Slag for the link- I'll take a look.

MyData
15th Dec 2006, 15:43
Wires! Pah! Think differently.

Use lasers and photovoltaic cells

http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/GLTRS/browse.pl?1993/E-7663.html

Or electromagnetic transfer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6129460.stm

gingernut
15th Dec 2006, 15:47
Wow- that would make my shed stand out

G-CPTN
15th Dec 2006, 15:49
Or electromagnetic transfer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6129460.stm
Is that like plasma from a seance?

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 15:57
Tiz Ectoplasm one gets at yer seance Mr G-C,one's granny used to attend spuggy church.
:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
15th Dec 2006, 16:03
Can yer run an electric drill off ectoplasm?

Or don't you red duster men speak of The Philadelphia Experiment?

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 16:13
One knows for a fact that a 110 volt drill works very well on 240 volts, for about thirty five seconds anyway.
:uhoh:
Certainly not in the Merchant service Mr G-C, and the Gray Funnel line needs no invisibility generator to get itself lost,oft was the time something sleek and grey has slunk up to us as we plied the Ogan and a pleading voice issuing from the bridge of same has begged us to point the way to say the Americas, as they were a tad, err lost.
:E

ShyTorque
15th Dec 2006, 19:44
Best picture I can find of a Duchess of Athol (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hornby-Dublo-Duchess-of-Athol_W0QQitemZ190050089254QQihZ009QQcategoryZ112505QQcmdZVi ewItem)
I still have all of my Hornby three rail railway including a Duchess of Athol locomotive.
I don't use it much lately because I need to fit an RCD to the 12 volt power supply, one cannot be too careful.

:D Like it!

RCD.... Raging Crap Detector? :ok:

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 19:54
That reminds me a neigbour of mine recently inherited a good quality old train set TRIX? think he said it was actually Hornby,I noticed the kit was still in the original boxes,I promised to have a look on ebay for summat similar to see what kind of prices they made,but one forgot that as well.
:confused:
Any offers for same will of course be subject to one's usual ten percent brokers commision.
:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
15th Dec 2006, 19:59
Trix Twin was a two-rail OO gauge that ran concurrently with Hornby's three-rail system, though with plastic running stock IIRC. After a while Hornby took over Trix (I think it was that way round) and Hornby subsequently dropped the three-rail system.

Trix history from Googoo (which proves some of my suggestions and claims to be incorrect):- http://www.mremag.demon.co.uk/hpsite/articles/col-18.12.99/trixhistory.htm
http://www.ttrca.co.uk/TTR.htm

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 20:13
Thank you Mr G-C one shall give him that link,the article didn't say how much they are worth though.:hmm:
What I do remember about it it has a trackside thingy that tipped up the coal trucks as they went past,it looked like good quality kit.
Hmm I recal from me hornby 00 days, the graphite granules from old war time head phones made good immitation coal.
:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
15th Dec 2006, 20:18
http://www.trix.co.uk/

(For Sale, Wanted and Valuations therein.)

ShyTorque
15th Dec 2006, 21:20
Dear all,
Seeing as it's nearly Christmas, I now wish to wire my shed lights up like this..

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=0c8cbd7e3b88e96da2cc1fd2a1837c17.672127

I've got an old reel of two core lamp cable and a spare round pin plug or two, which I've jury rigged to fit thirteen amp fuses. Do I need an RCD?

P.S. What type of fire extinguishers are safe to use on electrical fires?

tony draper
15th Dec 2006, 21:31
Dunno why all these proon sissy are scared of lecktrik for, one has had more electric frights than one could shake a stick at and I'm still here,mind you the electrodes did cause some minor baldness on one's temple.
:rolleyes:

gingernut
16th Dec 2006, 23:09
Can't help noticing that I've had a few "views" on this thread. How d'ya think a "shed building" blog 'd go down?

Or is it time to give up?:}

tony draper
16th Dec 2006, 23:25
Sheds are always a good subject,since we was forced to allow ladies into our Working Mens Clubs they's one of last remaining all male bastions.
:rolleyes:

gingernut
17th Dec 2006, 00:02
Cheers Tony, It'll be at the bottom of the garden as far away from Womandon as reasonably possible.

Okay, here's the plot...........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/gingernut123/DSCN2943.jpg


The Wendy house in the rt hand corner is going.

gingernut
17th Dec 2006, 00:19
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/gingernut123/DSCN2941.jpg

and the old tin shed's going. Planning have said I can go up to 7m x 4m x 4m (high) but the ginge thinks that might be too big.

Can a shed be too big?

G-CPTN
17th Dec 2006, 00:22
Looks like you've got a slight damp problem. Maybe an elevated floor is required?

gingernut
17th Dec 2006, 00:26
Nahh... NFC

(Normal for Cheshire)

p'raps might elevate it a few "s

slim_slag
17th Dec 2006, 11:30
Planning have said I can go up to 7m x 4m x 4m (high) but the ginge thinks that might be too big.
Can a shed be too big?http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/68/p3469168_x.jpgW x D x H: 5900 x 3890 x 3320mm.Made from high grade Scandinavian Softwood, the Koti cabin has solid timber tongue and groove flooring and roofboards.

45mm Thick Wall Logs
Toughened Safety Glass Throughout
Ground Floor: 1 Large & 2 Smaller Rooms
Upstairs Storage Area with Ladder for Access
7.55m² Terrace
Optional Sauna (Quote 33716)

Five grand at Screwfix, which is a bit OTT, so you need to learn how to be a carpenter and glazier as well as an electrician. If you have damp floors you need to ver doubly careful that any escaped electricity doesn't go to ground via your feet. I'd get a local lad with a digger to sort the foundations, no need to damage yourself with that lark.

tony draper
17th Dec 2006, 11:39
That shed looks suspiciously like its had a womans touch about it and therefore can no longer be classified as a shed as such.
:rolleyes:

Hobo
17th Dec 2006, 20:48
Just done it, I would use this:-

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Armoured_SWA/index.html

green granite
17th Dec 2006, 21:02
Planning have said I can go up to 7m x 4m x 4m (high) but the ginge thinks that might be too big.

Can a shed be too big?

Remember that junk expands to fill the space available for it :hmm::O

G-CPTN
17th Dec 2006, 21:12
4 metres high is just a touch tight for two storeys (unless you're a midget) so you'll have to employ the well-proven (by me) system of suspended storage, whereby you have racks (and rails) above the main space where containers can be held on shelves with strip materials in 'stirrups'.
The alternative would be a raised 'false floor' with storage within this 'cellar'.
Maybe a combination of the two would be more convenient.

Loose rivets
17th Dec 2006, 23:19
I purchased an old disused police box for my garden, no problem for planning with those outside dimensions.:8

gingernut
18th Dec 2006, 08:55
Ok chaps, time for more digging- good for the soul they reckon:O