JAA ATPL/CPL(H) Ground School / Distance Learning

[ikea]

Hey,
I think ive decided what im going to do, and that is:

PPL, Night, Multi + 100 hours

ATPL Distance learning (with BGS I think)

then im unsure:

Do you guys think it would be too much taking a CPL at the same time. Like a lesson every two weeks?

im thinking about doing it at MME, but im wondering if it is going to be better wating til i have the ATPL(F) then doing the CPL, MEIR, MCC (and Instructor if theres enough money in the pot).

Il be working full time at the same time. The flying I could fit in, but I guess theres a lof of theory involved in the CPL.

Anyone else done this/ You think maybe im just better off just burning a few hours every month for fun?

[NotamCheck]

You cannot start the CPL until you have completed the ATPL theory first. Also, that just gives you ATPL theory credits, you only get an ATPL(F) after you have completed the CPL/IR.

[LFS]

Theoretically you can actually start the CPL course without having passed the theory exams. However you will not be able to sit the CPL Skills test until you can show the examiner a pass in all required theory exams (CPL or ATPL). So it is pointless starting training alongside the exams, you will lose out on the continuity and may cover the course a long time before you can go sit the test costing you a lot more money in the long run. Take one step at a time its usually the easiest and cheapest option.

[solouk]

I'm currently doing my PPL(H) and intend to follow a similar plan as yours.

Trying to fly once every two weeks is not a good way to spend your money. I try and have a lesson at least once a week, but if I miss a week (usually because of weather) then I really notice it in my pocket - I find that the next lesson is partially wasted because I have to cover stuff I should have nailled the previous time. Continuity is a money saver!

If you want to get a head start on CPL skills, use your hour building time after you get your PPL to perfect techniques - if you have a good relationship with your PPL FI, he/she can help guide you.

Also, if you are going to try distance learning, make sure you can commit to it. You won't have much spare time with all the studying you have to do. If you've ever done an OU course you will appreciate that comment!

I've heard that FTOs love distance learning - because it is easy money for them. Many people start the courses but many give up. It doesn't matter how many give up because they are not wasting classroom time.

Other than that, your plan sounds good.

One step at a time untill the money runs out!

Solouk

[APRIANA]

I have PPL and Night at the moment with 80 hours.

I'm just about to start Module 1 with BGS. Whilst studying for module 1 I will be flying to get my hours up to around 130 TT. I will then sit the exams for Module 1. Depending on the outcome, hopefully a good one, I will then continue to fly the required 150 hours and study for Module 2. When I'm nearing the end of Module 2, I'm going to start my CPL training, hoping that with Module 2 passed all I have to do is sit the CPL and move swiftly onto the MEIR. All being equal I will then start to look for work!

I'm doing this whilst I'm working full time and my expected time frame is 21 months.

I personally will not complete the ATPL exams and then try to start the CPL. It eats into job hunting time and those exams are only valid for so long, so having them without the privilege to fly is useless. As soon as the exams are complete, I'll be job hunting, with the exception of the MEIR training.

I would certainly go up to keep your hand in but try and keep money by for the later stages.

Good Luck

[Sky Wave]

I've just completed my CPL/IR and I wouldn't have wanted to take 3 weeks out of the training to attend a brush up and the exams. I think that continuity of flying is important and if you have a big gap in your training you will probably end up taking more hours to pass your test. More hours not only equals more money but some airlines do look at how many hours it took you to pass your tests.

I studied at BGS and between Mod 1 and Mod 2 I gained my MEP rating. This helped me feel like I was getting somewhere and also meant that when I did my IR I was already familiar with the Duchess rather than going in cold. I also kept flying the PA28's every few weeks to take friends up.

Ikea I would say get your exams out of the way and then put all of your effort into the flying.

[LFS]

We had a candidate once who insisted on starting training before getting the mod 2 results he got half way through his training then found out he had failed an exam had to go of for another month to complete the exam before coming back and completing the CPL. It ended up costing him more as he had lost the continuity in his training and had to do more hours. As I said before the simplest and usually cheapest option is to take everything one step at a time. However it is advisable to try and keep your hand in flying whilst completing the ATPL exams.

[flyfish]

I agree with Sky Wave, and LFS.
Do the exams first, and keep your hand in during your studies by doing the hours building and possibly the night rating.
Unless its changed, you can start the distance learning as soon as you have got the PPL.

[CherokeeDriver]

Considering doing the Distance Learning JAR ATPL course at London Metropoliton University. Anyone have any experiance of this? At £1950 it seems good value.

[RoosterBooster]

Hi ya,

I'm currently doing the DL course with them. My personal feeling is that they are very good for full time study but not necessarily so for the DL course. Speaking to others you'll be better of with the likes of Bristol etc.

My 2 pense worth.

RB

[GusHoneybun]

ditto the above.

started out doing DL with guildhall uni (in those days). the notes were exceptionally wordy and difficult to follow. ended up with severe brain ache sat at the desk drooling uncontrollably with a thousand yard stare. enrolled full time and have to say the tuition was le chein's couilles. nailed all but one exam first time.

when i was there, they were revamping the notes (in conjunction with some swedish uni) to be less cumbersome and a bit more digestable. still seemed harder to read than the bristol notes thou. plus with bristol, there is much more on-line support and forums. horses for courses

[UAV689]

am i right in understanding at LMU there are 3 compulsory week long study periods, if so this is what will swing me Met's ways as work will never let m have 3 weeks off, 2 for study and 1 for exams..

[Dick Whittingham]

The JAA rules require all distace learning courses to give some classroom time, and, of course, you have to take the exams whatever course you do.

Our course (Bristol Groundschool) requires two separate classroom periods of two weeks each. The rules actually require rather less classroom time than this, but we feel you will need the full two weeks times two for revision and clarification.

Dick Whittingham

[Esam]

Apart from the obvious cost differences in doing your ATPL groundschool via. distance learning, are there any other pros?

[Hobgoblin]

Far as I am concerned the online question bank facility from Bristol Groundschool is the best in the business. If everything else they do is of the same standard then they definitely are worth the money.

[Andy_R]

Having seen both LMU's notes and Bristol's I have gone for Bristol - Module 1 arrived yesterday in fact - christ it's scary suff :uhoh:

[Grass strip basher]

For me the real advantage of the London Met course was its structure.

The exams are tackled in 3 modules rather than the normal 2 so there is less short-term cramming involved as you take the exams in 3 sittings speading the workload more evenly.

Also this means that the revision courses are only 3-5 days long rather than the usual 2 weeks. This for me places considerably less pressure on work commitments (the reason why I am distance learning rather than full time). I could not take 2 weeks off work for the compulsory classroom based learning followed by another 3 days for exams without causing problems with my employer (and the Mrs for that matter)

I have no doubt that Bristol's notes may well be better (I have their CD) but how the distance learning course is structured at Bristol unfortunately ruled it our for me.

+ I live in London so London Met is easier for traveling as well!:}

[egld0624]

Dear All,

Yes it’s been discussed many times and yes I have waded through the different threads about: ATPL Distant Learning.

Generally, it would appear the big guns in the field have been revamping their respective product.

In my mind I have singled out Bristol & OAT as contenders. (The former combining CD-rom with folders and the latter with revised manuals only – although OAT do have some material offered on CD-rom that could be used in conjunction).

PPRUNE threads definitely have a bias towards Bristol; yet OAT manuals appear to be used as back up solutions to other courses’ failings and pop up regularly as preferred training material. In terms of constructive negative comments against OAT – the worst I have come across is the content is too deep.

Does the latter point mean Bristol’s notes cut to the chase and are concise where OAT fulfil other requirements to cover a greater scope? At the end of the day passing the exam is what one is measured on and technique is king. [Not teaching to suck eggs].

It was suggested to me some months ago by an instructor at OAT to pick up a copy of the Navigation manual and have a browse to obtain a gut feel as to the depth and level required; suggested because in his experience Nav being one of the heavier subjects tended to prove more challenging. This I did and whilst there is a lot of detail I couldn’t grumble about its’ conciseness.

BUT that’s where I’d appreciate some input please:

Apart from the 3-D animations and CBT solution Bristol boasts that their course can be done entirely from paper: How does the content compare to the typical OAT manual?

What is the typical turnaround time from emailing instructors at OAT with queries?

Does anybody have experience of using the OAT Virtual College and how does the forum compare with that at Bristol which looks both user-friendly and accessible to even non-Bristol students?


Kind regards,

EG:ok:

P.S. I have no axe to grind and certainly would prefer if replies answered without entering the usual unconstructive slagging match. Many thanks in advance.

[OpenCirrus619]

I can't comment on OAT or Bristol - but I found CATS excellent and have not heard anyone there say anything bad.

I would suggest you try and make the time to pop into all the schools you are considering (preferably when one of the residential weeks for the distance learners is on) and see what the atmosphere is like / what the students say.

As for CATS take a look at: http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/ and see what you think. Give Stuart Smith a call as well - his enthusiasm for learning is really motivating.

Whoever you pick - enjoy.

OC619

P.S. To be pedantic I did the CPL distance as opposed to ATPL.
P.P.S. If EGLD is an indication of where you are then CATS is certainly accessible (sp?).

[helicopter-redeye]

If considering the wider subject then look also at Ground Training Services (GTS) (www.gtserv.co.uk)

What are you looking for in a ATPL course?

Passing the exams - (yup!)

Experience of the instructors - (gen. reqd)

Good notes in detail that give you the backup in learning - (reqd)

Support from experienced tutors - (needed unless just there for the exams the second time around)

In reality all of the approved courses can meet the basic requirements but what level of personal experience do you get from the tutors and how big is the class (a lecture hall or a tutorial room, that is the question)

h-r:)

[Glide Perfectionist]

egld0624

Interesting and well thought of questions. I shall do my best to answer. I did the OAT distance learning package and acheived good passes, so I will try to give you my opinions.

First, answering your specific queries:-
1. "What is the typical turnaround time from emailing instructors at OAT with queries?"
My replies to the few times I did email were within 2 days. They were also happy to discuss problems over the telephone.

2. "Does anybody have experience of using the OAT Virtual College and how does the forum compare with that at Bristol which looks both user-friendly and accessible to even non-Bristol students?"
I never had need to use virtual college.

3. The content of OAT manuals has been revised since I started (2003) and alot of needless information has been chopped.

So, overall I was quite happy with the distance learning package as one would expect from a professional school. But what do you want to do afterwards?

If you want to complete all your training by the modular route then you may want to choose a single FTO who can take you all the way. I have completed my CPL, however due to policy decisions within OAT, I now have to wait until May to start an IR, so I will have to split my training and go to Bristol.

It is worth researching how far OAT or CABAIR or whoever are willing to take you through the modular route so that you do not get caught by unexpected policy changes.

[mad_jock]

There is nothing between the 2 at all apart from the availbility of the local courses.

BOTH will do the JOB both have a good set of notes so choose the cheapest one for you including accomadation and all the other bollocks. And i don't have a clue which is cheaper.



MJ

[powdermonkey]

Hi
Have been using Bristol notes and their forum and qbank.
Have just sat module 1, and found that the feedback, course material and online instructors covered all that was necessary. I had some Oxford manuals and felt that they were almost too comprehensive. As much as I hate to say it, there is so much to assimilate in a short period of time that Oxford manuals where a little too scary, although I was looking at them as back up and they were 5 years old. It would be nice to be able to say that there was enough time to get to grips with ALL the material and that you would finish the ATPL's with a great depth of knowledge, but the truth is, for me at least, it came down to simply being able to answer the questions on the day, and I certainly only have a brief understanding of the overall. At home, you have A LOT of figuring out to do on your own, even with online tutors, but sometimes it's hard to ask the right question to get the exact answer you are looking for. Therefore, you need material which does not go into intricate detail, which may end up overwhelming you. In full time courses, you have a few weeks per subject, and the instructors guide you through the material, pointing out only what you need to know about, and you cannot underestimate how valuable that is ( what I have been told by some full time course friends, not my own experience). At home you do not have that benefit, and tend to think that everything you read is massively important, so the material needs in my opinion to be simplified. NO COURSE WILL BE PERFECT!
I am happy to continue with Bristol and the pass rate is high.
Time to get answers back online, varies from that same day to 2/3 days. A search will reveal that many students before you have asked the same questions so you may find the answer you are looking for already on the forum. QBANK QBANK QBANK!!!!
Get on it ASAP and start answering questions, it will get you prepared for the type of questions that come up in the tests.
I could not have answered 75% of my test at least without the progress tests and the question banks. Again, Bristol are accurate and for me were bang up to date. Will have my results next week so lets see!

Long and short, you are dealing with the two big guns and both have great reputations, I chose bristol and am quite happy.
Best of luck you will do well with either I would imagine.
Sorry that's not much help but having only delt with one school, I can only offer one side of the story. I simply feel Bristol may be a little more concise......:ok:

[Positive Landing]

Hi,

GTServ will help you not only to pass the JAR exams but also to be in better shape for a technical interview, those guys are really good and very experienced instructors, they will help you to LEARN and UNDERSTAND all the knowledge you require to be a better professional.

Cheers:ok:

[helicopter-redeye]

The answer is thus clear.

TRAIN with GTS.

USE the BGS Q Bank for extra exam practice.

SUPPLIMENT knowledge with the OATS manuals which you can buy from Transair.

EMERGE from training better equipped than everybody else and with a competitive advantage in a competitive world.

[no sponsor]

You need the likes of OATS and BGS to get you through the exams. Anyone thinking that the day you pass your final 14th exam is the day you stop learning needs their head examined. No course is going to equip you with everything you need to know to pass interviews, or allow you to have a long conversation with the guy who designed the hydraulic system on a 757.

I did BGS, and I got through all of my exams fairly easily. I've no complaints with BGS. But, I've found myself reading through numerous books on various technical subjects since passing my ATPLs. I made many mental notes to re-visit topics when I was studying - but at the time of my exams all I wanted to do was pass.

This was nearly 10 months ago. The subjects are so vast and interesting (well, some of them) that you will build knowledge gradually over the coming years.

I would canvass opinion on BGS, OATS and GTS - all of whom have good reviews.

[scroggs]

You will notice that, as ever, the respective schools are promoted by their current students who, almost by definition, have no experience of the schools they didn't attend. Therefore their opinions are, not to put too fine a point on it, worthless!

Almost all of the groundschools that are used by the contributors to this forum are worthy establishments that try to do their very best for the students who pay their mortgages. None (as far as I am aware) will try to give you less than good value for your money. All you can do is visit those places that interest you and, having talked to the staff, make your own mind up as to which will suit you best. Don't ask the students of other schools to make your mind up for you; that way lies dissatisfaction.

Scroggs

[Glide Perfectionist]

scroggs,

"You will notice that, as ever, the respective schools are promoted by their current students who, almost by definition, have no experience of the schools they didn't attend. Therefore their opinions are, not to put too fine a point on it, worthless!"


That is a rather harsh comment. I accept your comment about existing students promoting their own FTOs, however, I have tried to give my personal experience of OAT (not comparing it to other FTOs) and have illustrated a problem that I now face which could also prove to be a significant factor to others when choosing where to train.

I would like to think that I am a mature, intelligent and independent minded person capable of looking objectively at any decision to be made. Surely my opinion is not worthless.

[mad_jock]

Scroggs has hit it on the nail again.

I have used OAT notes and I have read the Bristol notes. Both very good. Some subjects at OAT are better than Bristol and some are better at Bristol. The feedback is all the same as the students tend to get there hands on everybodys and the staff copy it. There is differences of opinion though about what some of the answers are.

I would make your choice purely on a money choice between the 2.

Cost of the course.
Local acc charge for the 2 week residental parts.
travel to get there.

Add everything together and go for the cheapest.

The only reasons why I went to OAT was because they didn't charge me for sending books to Germany and it was easy to get a bus from LHR to Oxford.

MJ

[no sponsor]

I do think Scroggs is being a little harsh, and the term worthless is probably a little over-the-top. However, I do agree, that at the end of the day, you can only make the decision yourself, from visiting or speaking with the schools. I used PPRUNE to gauge an opinion of each before coming up with a shortlist.

The decision might come down more to timing of courses, class numbers, and overall convenience, as the quality is probably quite similar.

[scroggs]

Ok, 'worthless' is perhaps putting it a little strongly, though I meant it only in the context of making comparisons between schools. Student A may think his school is fabulous, which is nice, but without the experience of other schools, he has nothing on which to base a comparative assessment - and he may be completely wrong. However, if he has achieved good passes in a reasonable time, is that all he needs to know?

If I was looking for a new car, I wouldn't ask for the opinions of those who'd only ever driven one car to help me in my choice. If I did, I'd get lots of young people telling me that the 1989 1.0 Vauxhall Nova is the business, especially when it's pimped to the max. Not a lot of use when what really suits my needs is a Volvo V70T5, which, of course, the Nova-driving yoof has never experienced.

That is why it is so important to do your own research, and to visit the schools you are considering. At least then you'll be able to say why you chose a particular school, and will have some idea of why you turned down the others.

Scroggs

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

<splutter!> A Volvo?!?! Well if you must I suppose..

As has been pointed out here - there is no substantive difference between the two products worth worrying about. I really would choose the one closest or cheapest based on those criteria alone.

Scroggs is right to say that people posting articles supporting the only groundschool they have ever attended are fairly worthless. NOT unwelcome by any means. Lots of glowing reports are nice and comforting to read. But unless you actually went to both then its a bit like the Modular vs Integrated debate.

Good luck. The JAA exams are of course much much easier than the good old CAA exams that Scroggs and I sat many years ago when men were men and multiple choice answers hadn't been invented yet.. ;-)

Cheers

WWW

[egld0624]

Dear All,

Many thanks for all your guidance, suggestions and helpful input.

I am in the process of setting up a meetings with BSG, OAT & GTS.

I intend to bring a long the current OAT Nav manual to the competing schools and benchmark their content to try and obtain a gut feel to just how comprehensive the content within the same subject is/handled. I appreciate this is only part of the picture and hence am obviously using the visits to gain further insight to make my ultimate decision.

I am genuinely looking forward to the hard time ahead with my head down learning the material.

Thank you all again,

EG:ok:

[powdermonkey]

I am a bit put out to say the least by the various comments about the honest and helpful opinions given by existing ATP students in describing experiences of their respective FTO's.
An opinion about what has been experienced by each student is all that was asked for, and that is all that was given!!
I however did have the experience of two schools, and was extreemley unsatisified with the material and help that was given to me by my first school. As a result I went to BGS for help, purchased their material and carried on. Of course students can only give one opinion, but hey, isn't that what this forum is about? It seems to me that all comments ventured were true and as honest as possible, and given, not to promote a particular school but simply to help the guy out!
So go easy with the 'worthless', as under the circumstances, what else can we offer but our experience.........makes you wonder why we bother!:*

[mad_jock]

Sorry that's not much help but having only delt with one school, I can only offer one side of the story

Well thats not what your previous post implied.

The loyalty that wannbies give to their training providers is sometimes quite strange. Its almost as if you have to justify to yourself that you made the right choice. And any inferance on PPrune that you made the wrong choice starts self doudt. Which triggers a back against the wall aggresive fight your corner. With the usual responce after a while because there can be no winner of personal comments like "your an arragant arse I hope your never on my flight deck" and the like.

I did my ground school with OAT and got them all, got what i felt was value for money out of the course. But that still dosn't stop me from having a go at there dubious marketing of there other courses.

The which one is better between OAT and BGS is pretty much a none starter because you are talking about 2 companys who have set the market standard for that course.

Unless you have been to both OAT and BGS your opinion isn't really worth alot. Even if you did and didn't particularly like one school there are that many students going through both and succeding that it doesn't really matter.

And to be honest once you have the exams in the bag you don't really care. Its a stressful time getting the theory crap out the way. Which when compared to the stress of the IR seems like nothing. You proberly won't ever be asked or show your results ever again. In 12 months time when asked what marks you got you won't have a clue.

MJ

[powdermonkey]

Mad Jock

I have no loyalty one way or the other, and I am not in anyway trying to justify my choice. As for not stating previously that I had had only the experience of one school, well that's simply because I didn't think it important to talk about dealing with a non-starter when the question related to two specific schools. I couldn't care less what school somebody attends, but seeing as someone took the trouble to ask what we thought, well I simply stated the simple fact that I thought BGS were good and got me through mod1.
That's it, no major loyalties, a simple answer to a simple question.
If someone asks you what you think of a specific car that you own ( based on Scroggs analogy), you're not going to turn around and say " sorry, can't be arsed answering your question as I've ever only driven this car and nothing else!" You would however tell him exactly what you think of your car and let him go and make his own decision. Jeeeez what is the matter with everyone..............:confused:
PS spare me the wannabees, it's a ridiculous term!!

[UAV689]

any1 have any experience of London Met distance learning? what is their material like. I believe they also spilt the course into 3 which also makes it easier to digest

[RB311]

I am distance learning with London Met. The course notes are in the form of text books which certainly cover all the required syllabuses and yes, it is split into three, more manageable chunks.

Have just complete Phase B and so far have passed all first time. Now starting on Phase C....

[Glide Perfectionist]

There was a survey in one of the national papers recently that stated that when advertisements appear for new cars, the majority of people who read them have just bought that model.

The reason given was that they were trying to justify to themselves why they had parted with the money. So I can see how we do justify our own choices. Only time will tell.

[redsnail]

More often than not it's your personality type and how you "fit in" to a particular school will be a deciding factor.

Therefore, it is imperative for the prospective student to either visit the schools in question or if that isn't possible, take the advice of someone he/she knows.

eg, I recommended BGS to a very good friend (now hubby) over the rest simply because I knew him and what sort of environment he'd prefer.

[no sponsor]

My experience of BGS was that the course notes were good. I rarely used the computer program, except for progress tests, and some of the more complex diagrams.

Still, I did struggle with some subjects, and had to buy other books to supplement the course notes.

Their feedback was good, except AGK which was a shambles.

The class sizes were huge - my Mod 1 was about 30 people. Mod 2 about 15.

The instructors were good, friendly and new their subject matter very well.

If I wanted smaller class sizes and a more intimate environment, I would have looked elsewhere. Looking back on it now, I would probably have looked closer at another school.

I did visit the school and chatted to students who were there, including the CGI. I tried to visit Oxford at the same time, but they couldn't fit me in on the week I had available. I also visited Cranfield, and met with CCAT and the other school on the airfield. This shortlist was gained from visiting the Flyer show at LHR and also from advice taken here and from my flying club.

GTS were not around when I was looking, but I've heard some good stories about them, and they have smaller class sizes too. There's another new school full of ex-Oxford instructors, but I don't know anything about their quality.

[stator vane]

i first called oxford to start the process of gaining a JAA licence with ATP 737 rating due to their image and "poshness." had every intention of giving whatever money required to get the job done.

however, they could not accept the fact that i only needed the written exams!! what with my 13,000 hours total time and 5000+ hours captain on 737's, emails and phone calls to the CAA with their approval for only the writtens, with no classroom required, and then a sim check-the sod proceeded to tell me that i was wrong! after my reply that i had contacted the UK CAA, he then emailed that he had talked to the same individual at the CAA and again told me i was wrong!

so i called Bristol and they indeed could think outside the box and we got it done.

indeed their books might not be as posh, but they got the bits needed.

and if i were to do it again, Bristol with no question.

for books to read on sleepless nights, get a few oxfords.

[MikeAlphaBravo]

Just wondered if there are any ppruners out there who are attending next weeks brush up for phase 1 down at Oxford? Also any comments on what to expect in terms of workload etc greatly appreciated. Can a social life be scheduled into the 2 week stint, or is it all work and no play?:ugh:
MAB

[helicopter-redeye]

Can a social life be scheduled into the 2 week stint, or is it all work and no play

You MAY be able to eat a sandwich while doing the four test papers after a full day of learning and test papers.

h-r:)

[Kengineer-130]

I know this is never going to be easy/conclusive/unbiased,
but what would everyone with experience of ATPL distance learning packages reccomend? I am looking at doing the ATPL package from Bristol Ground school or any other reputable company (cabair, OAT etc), but probably bristol as it is the closest to where I work, and seems to offer reasonable rates and tuition. Just after any info or advice please :ok: , and please don't start a slanging thread, facts and genuine advice please :ok: :D

[Rfortes]

I just finished my ground School with Bristol. They are very professional!
I had a not so good experience with a diferent school, wouldn't recommend them.
I think Bristol at the moment are one of the best or even the best.
Very fresh feedbacks, you shouldn't have any problem finishing it in 6 months.
Good luck

[Cpt. Chaos]

I would agree with the above post for sure.

At the moment, I don't think you could find anywhere better than Bristol Ground School.

They got me through them, which is no mean task.

The instructors there are second to non, they know exactly what you need inorder to pass the exams and they do away with the rubbish. You only have to look at their notes 7 files instead of the 14 you no doubt get elsewhere.

I would highly recommend them to anyone.

Good luck who ever you choose.

Cpt. Chaos

[finals24]

Definitely consider Cabair for distance learning. Their format of taking exams every 3 months with one week revision course before each of the 4 modules worked very well for me.

I do not believe the others do it this way (but I am 2 years out of date).

Cabair manuals are not as good as Bristol or Oxford BUT the ground intsructors are excellent and the feedback questions spot on.

[aztec25]

It's difficult for people to make comparisons as most will only have had experience of one school and if they've been successful there is bound to be a feel good factor to consider.

As for me I can only speak for BGS - I've just done and passed my first 8 exams I therefore feel very good about this school.

I have however been in education and training all of my working life (teaching kids, training adults, and publishing software) and so I can draw on other experience...

BGS Material - excellent
BGS tutors - excellent - individually and collectively they have massive experience, (been there, done it and got loads of T-shirts, as they say)
Online support - quick, efficient and extremenly useful (look for yourself at http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/ to see what's going on. You don't need to be with BGS to register here or in fact take advantage of the BGS expertise.
Online Question Bank (extra small charge) - don't even think about this one - just register and use it till your mouse falls apart.

I can't comment on other companies; in the end you pay your money and you take your chance. They may be as good as BGS, they may not; I simply don't know.

Good luck

Az

[Squawk 2650]

Bristol for me! Great bunch of guys!

Good luck with it all

S
:cool:

[menikos]

Hi,

definitely Bristol, I'm from France but not French : ) and english is not my mothertongue and I found the teachers more than very good.

They have the best feedback I went through mod 1 and now I'm working on mod 2 and had my 8 exams (mod 1) in the first attempt.

Cheers.

[WingDown]

Hi there,

Due to start Distance Learning in July 06 and am looking for information regarding a realistic timescale I should expect to complete the writtens. I appreciate that the whole point of Distance Learning is 'in your own time' but im really looking for guys who have distance learnt and worked at the same time. How many hours did you work compared to studying for the ATPL's? And how long did it take you from start to finish? Would love to hear your experiences as im currently drafting a realistic timescale for my training.

Cheers

WD

[no sponsor]

I worked full time while I did the ground school. It took me about 10 months in total. I studied about 20-25hrs per week - in the evenings and at weekends.

You basically give up your life for the period of time it takes you.

PM me if you want more info.

[mungo_55]

Hi,

I'm due to sit the first set of exams (50% of the course) in c.3 weeks and will have been studying about 5 months. I've been working part time 2 days a week and studying c. 25 hours per week.

Mungo

[mad_jock]

Depends on your back ground.

If you have done A-level grade school and a technical degree afterwards in some form of engineering. It may.... be a bit less.

But if you haven't looked at a book since school it might be more.

Its better to be more than prepared than nearly prepared. In the grand scope of things if you still earning an extra 3 months is a benifit not a hinderance.

After you have past them of course they are worth bugger all in the grand scope of things. Just a tick in the box.

MJ

[r1flyguy]

Is It me or is it all Doom & Gloom on this forum like so many others on this website. It's just full of people moaning abut getting jobs, building the hours, aquiring (i use the word very loosely) a Type Rating, Being Unemployable after spending thousands of £'s on flight training. I may be naive and new to this game but life is for living, it's not a rehersal and if you want something so badly you Will get it in the end.
I set myself a lot of goals when I left school, none were to go comercial! I had no desire to become an airline pilot but now that's all i want as a holder of a PPL/IMC & Night Ratign, I have acheived all my other gols and travelled the world. I'm not well off and spoon fed like a lot of Airline pilots from rich backgrounds (the favoured members(jealous Oh YES)). I earn an average wage but I Will get there in the end.
So here's a message to al the miserable pilots who hold an ATPL whether frozen or not. If you have a job great, well done you deseve it, you have it for a reason, all those who don't, KEEP YOUR CHIN UP, YOU'LL GET THERE IN THE END. you didn't aquire the skill and expertise sitting on your backside or claiming the dole.
You are worth your weight in Gold and only time wil tell.
NOW BLOODY CHEER UP AND advise newbies like me how to get to your standard and the best way to do it. Merry Christmas Everyone who managed to read this far. & best Wishes for the New Year & new career :OMerry Christmas

[WingDown]

Thanks for all your responses, they are all very helpful. Gives some perspective as to how long it is going to take. Im planning on getting straight on with it after I graduate to keep the study momentum up!

Any more info or experiences would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

WD

[apruneuk]

I did my distance learning course with Cabair over 12 months with the exams divided into four blocks. I attended a week of groundschool two weeks prior to each set of exams followed by a clear week for further revision followed by the exam week.
I spent approximately 2 hours per day studying and worked full-time. Personally, I would have struggled to do the exams in 2 sittings and Cabair was the only school I found that scheduled them in 4.
You do need to be very disciplined to do the writtens via distance learning. It will take over your life and you will almost certainly become pretty tedious company for those around you who aren't really interested in the workings of a jet engine, global weather patterns, air law, schoolboy maths etc.
My best advice is try and enjoy it, learn and understand the subjects rather than memorizing assumed question banks by rote, set yourself up a quiet study area at home and stick to a realistic schedule - there is too much sheer volume of information to get away with last-minute cramming.

[FuelFlow]

I am interested in getting my UK CAA issued JAR ATPL. I presently hold an ICAO ATPL and live in the South of Africa. I am full time employed with the national carrier, so it is going to be rather hectic. Any one with a recommendation on which school to use? I have been in contact with Bristol and London Metropolitan University. Have attempted to get hold of Cabair, but cannot get through on their various e-mail addresses!
Any info Please. Thanks.:confused: :confused:

[Air Polygamy]

Can u compare OAT LMU and of course Bristol gs ?

Which one give s the ebst material ?????? :confused:

[Air Polygamy]

Y'all have been very helpful so far. I avoided being ripped off by CABAIR and the likes.

Now can y'all help me have an idea about OAT and Bristol's DL ATPL. I know both are good institutions and provide great material. But I don't wanna make a choice and regret or find out (the hard way) that I could have chosen a better school. I could 4-5 hrs per day, I am off work for a few months.

Soooo ???? :confused:

[PB4]

hey AirP, I'm also in the Paris area, I am with Bristol.gs going for mod1 brush-up next week, I'm really happy about the course, the notes are great, you have the exact same text (plus great animated figures) in the computer program which is good when you have to spent a week far from home and cannot bring the heavy books with you, also even if it is DL you have their forum where you can ask questions which are quickly answered... we'll see how it comes down when sitting the exams :ok:
Also I cannot comment on other schools ..

[european champion]

Im also with Bristol correspondence course and im happy with their notes.How do i get into their forum,what s the address?

[PB4]

http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/

[mad_jock]

There really isn't any choice between them. They both do the job.

I would choose the one which you can get to / live at cheapest. There really isn't any significant difference in quality between the 2.

MJ

BTW this thread is just going to be a list of people saying they had a great time at one or the other and passed the lot. And as it is very uncommon for anyone to have gone to both (because they are BOTH so good) its not really going to help you as much as paying for a flight over and going to see for yourself what each school is like.

[RB311]

Have been distance learning since Feb 05 with final exams in March this year. With LMU which divides course into 3 phases with a revision week for each phase. Notes in form of text books which are pretty comprehensive and by religiously ploughing through each one you come out quite well prepared.
As to time commitment, over the year I have dedicated about 12 to 15 hrs every week on top of a job which also takes up between 50-60 hrs.
Tough, but enjoyable perversly, because there is an excellent end goal and the subject matter is interesting. If it isn't you shouldn;t become a pilot.
Hope this helps a bit and best of luck.

[no sponsor]

I kept a very detailed view of each day I worked throughout the months it took me to get through the ATPL ground studies. It took me about 11 months.

The total hours I worked at home ended up at 650 or so. The brushup weeks and exam weeks were very long days. You'd finish at 5pm at the school and head back to the B&B for another good 6hrs of work. Each exam day saw a race back to the digs to continue cramming: I didn't record those hours.

I also had a full-time job too, so it can be done. Others just did the DL, but worked at it full-time. Some completed it all in 4 months.

[Icerman]

I was actually about to ask the same question as Air Polygamy.

If there are any OAT distance ATPL students around I would like to hear their opinions about the course as well. :ok:

Isn't one short coming of these courses that they are divided into 2 parts? For distance learning wouldn't 3 or 4 work much better?

Thanks! :ok:
Icer

[combineharvester]

I am shortly about to finish my ATPL's Distance Learning With OAT. I have been nothing but impressed with the Quality of the brush-up course and have no complaints regarding help & support when i have asked for it. Also the Assesments you send in are marked in very reasonable time. They are however a little more expensive than Bristol. A few people i know used Bristol and highly recommended them. I have signed up to use their Online Feedback Bank, which i have to say is an excellent supplement to the material i recieved from OAT. Like mad_jock said there are not many people with bad words to say about either establishment.
:confused:

[no sponsor]

If you go to Bristol or OATS for the DL you will get a good service from both of them. If you put the work in, you will pass all 14 subjects. So then, how do you select one over the other? It would come down to things like which one is the easiest to travel to, is one nearer to you, cheaper, or does one feel better to you when you speak/see their representatives.

My choice was easy. BGS were prepared to meet with me in the week I was available, Oxford were not. BGS then explained about the fact you could email your test results, so I was sold. But, I reckon the teachning and standard is similar between the two. You might want to check out GTS in Bournemouth as they seem to have a good reputation.

[Air Polygamy]

And time wise. How long duz it take to finish in ... let's say 6-7 months ? Being off wok shoudl help but are there subjects that require an instructor to be with you or is everything well explained and u only need to read and read and hammer the tests over and over again ???

[no sponsor]

Working in a full time job may mean you take 10-12 months.

Just doing DL full-time can mean it takes 4 months (2 months for each module).

[Icerman]

They are however a little more expensive than Bristol.

I think that might have changed. They now seem a bit cheaper than BGS.

[Wazzoo]

Y'all have been very helpful so far. I avoided being ripped off by CABAIR and the likes.

Curious to know why you reckon Cabair would be ripping you off...any more than OAT or the like would be? Be aware that there are two parts to Cabair, Bournemouth which is only a recent addition that they took over, and Cranfield that has been around a while.
Cranfield also runs modular distance learning courses. The general view as I gather is that they can't be viewed as equal atm.

[Air Polygamy]

I believe u fella. But believe me too, CABAIR has been acting up with me even before I enrolled. Thank God I did not. They never reply on time, make u wait for answers. Send u fake quotes .. I'm just talking about Bournemouth not Cranfield. I don't know these guys who are probably the ones who gave CABAIR its big name ...

[bfato]

Just doing DL full-time can mean it takes 4 months (2 months for each module).

Bearing in mind that there's two weeks' compuslory ground school, plus one week of exams for each module, that must have been a superhuman effort! I've spent four months full time just on module one so far - three and a half months working through the course material and two weeks using the question bank - and I've still got the ground school fortnight and exam week to go. I hope to cover module two quicker but 5 weeks? Heavens man, did you never sleep?

[Tuned In]

Wazzoo... Cabair, Bournemouth which is only a recent addition that they took over... This is not really true, in fact mostly wrong. Cabair Bournemouth came from EPTA, which was set up by Cabair and never a totally separate organisation (they couldn't have a Cabair school in Bournemouth for a contracted time after selling Bournemouth Flying Club, hence the EPTA branding). Some of the local management ran SFT before it collapsed, but Cabair Bournemouth was always part of Cabair.

They did recently take over the shell company of PTC, in order to get back the flying approvals they had lost, but that has nothing to do with the groundschool. There are only 2 options in Bournemouth for distance learning - GTS and BCFT.

[Capt. Vilo]

Hi

Info needed please...
Whilst doing atpl's distance learning does anybody know the amount of groundschool hrs required by the caa to sit the exams.

Thanx for your help

Vilo

[Alex Whittingham]

For the first attempt a total of 650 hours, a minimum 10% completed in the classroom.

If you run out of time or don't get them all done in 6 attempts then you need a minimum of 60hrs instruction before you can try again.

If you pass them all but don't get your IR within 36 months of the last exam you can re-sit after training 'at the discretion of the Head of Training of an approved FTO'.

[clarityinthemurk]

The 36 month ATPL theory validity rule applies to both CPL and IR, even if only on single engine aircraft, correct?

[Alex Whittingham]

Yes. You must get all the flight tests and your license, CPL or ATPL, issued within 36 months.

If you do the ATPL theory and get a CPL IR issued then the ATPL theory is frozen until you have enough hours to get an ATPL issued.

If you just do the CPL, and don't bother with the IR, the ATPL theory credit disappears in a puff of smoke after 36 months and, if you ever wanted an ATPL, you would have to do all the exams again.

[ALV2500]

Anyone seen both sets of new edition OAT and BGS books?

I have Oxford MET, OPS PROCEDURES, COMM and AIR LAW. I need to buy the rest and am wondering if BGS books are better suited to distance learnng.


AL

[d2k73]

Does anyone know if there are any places left on the groundschool starting september? I've tried ringing the school and e-mailing them but cant get a reply or answer! Any info appreciated!
Cheers
Danny

[Polarhero]

Danny,

Check you PM's.


Andy

[CptSilva]

Anyone there can give me information about Aeromadrid ATPL distance learning?

[adil]

what is the best way to get CPL & ATPL thru distance leraning .
i haven't also got PPL , i know that PPL is mandatory as a begining but the rest of the way ahead of me not so clear . and also duration until getting a CPL valid in europe

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hi all,I'm going to start my ATPL groundschool soon and I've been recommended OAT and BS.I know OAT provide study books, and BS provide a CD, but do both provide both books and CD's?...I'd like to know exactly what study material I will get.Many thanks. :D

[kerrinator]

I'm currently doing the Bristol gs course, and they provide the books, seven of them to be percise, and they also provide the cd (which is very good!)
Ps I must say, I am very happy with them!!

Sorry... they also provide, student airway manual, basically all the studying material you will need for the exams.

[bfato]

You'll also need a CRP-5 (or similar) whizz wheel at about £75. Add compass, dividers, protractor and a scientific calculator for another tenner and you're good to go (study).

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Cheers guys! So what exactly do OAT offer as study material?

[combineharvester]

15 books in total, 1 of which is referece material (AIC extracts, CAP manuals for Mass & Balance, Performance and Flight Planning.)

Jeppesen Student Airways manual.

CD-ROM Exam question Database. (Like the BGS online database without the advantage of continuous updates!)

Ring binder folder full of the "College assesment Papers" which you complete as you go.

I think thats about it!

Oh and you get a login for their "Virtual College" where they post up snappy animations etc they use for teaching their Full time courses.

Hope this helps!

[gap]

Has anybody used NAC for the Distance Learning ATPL course? Comments please, good or bad.
Gap

[scroggs]

A search would help you - try this lot (http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?searchid=218795).

Scroggs

[Starways]

Hello All. I am about to let £2500 go on an ATPL distance learning theory course at Oxford Aviation Training. But, before doing so, I would be very grateful of any info regarding OAT, and the course that they offer. Is there anybody out there who has been and done, or doing this particular course at OAT, or even know of this course at OAT? If so, please let me know.
Thankyou.

[scroggs]

Welcome to Pprune. Please take a few minutes - well, hours maybe! - to look at the Archive Reference Threads sticky at the top of the forum. Within that thread are links to many useful topics, including this one (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212061&highlight=oxford) about OAT.

Scroggs

[gap]

Cheers Scroggs,

Tried the search, lots of info on the flying side but noting on the ground school.

Any information in relation to quality of notes from past students would be appreciated?

Gap

[CaptainKC]

Hi

Does anyone know what the cost of accomadation and living expenses is for the brush ups and exams? I'm trying to budget for a trip from Dublin realisticly, all info appreciated....

:)

[speedbird001]

Hi Starways,
I'm currently enrolled on OATs Distance Learning ATPL Course, although I'm finding some things heavy going and a little difficult I've been quite happy with the help and info they've provided me.
The course as you are probably aware is set out in frames where you have to read so many chapter(s) in one frame then take the end of frame exam(s) to move on to the next one, you can send your results via e-mail or by the hard copy papers they supply, you also get to use OATs virtual college with all sorts of info and Computer aided instruction which are pretty good.
SB001

[1/2rhoVsquared]

PM me I'll give you the LOW down

[hduk]

Hey,

Would also be interested in knowing if anyone is currently studying or thinking of studying the nac groundschool. Im about to start hourbuilding and want to start the gs at the same time.

[CaptainKC]

Hi Speedbird and Starways,

I'm trying to decide which way to go, OAT are cheaper than Bristol but Bristol have excellent reviews for distance learning. Its going to the uk for the brush ups that bothers me as I have to work as well. Have you been to the brushup course in Oxford yet Speedbird???

The Ire route is NFC using Oxford notes for €3,500, or PTC using Naples notes in Waterford brush ups here in Ire and exams.

Any comments??:rolleyes:

[chrisbl]

I have recently started the Oxford course and my biggest distraction is the quality of the notes.

My day job involves publishing technical journals and books and it is quite off putting having to read stuff which has typographical errors, basic errors of grammar and seemingly random comments appearing in the text. A chapter which might take an hour to read is taking me longer as I correct the text.

Many people will not care and maybe even not know that the grammar is wrong as is evidenced on this forum by the abuse of the apostrophe S, or the random use of commas.

The material comes across as someone's typed up lecture notes as opposed to a text book.

I have not seen the notes from any other training provider so I cannot comment on which is better.

[keg167l]

I have not seen the notes from any other training provider so I cannot comment on which is better.
I have, and Oxford is by no means the worst, and better than most. I would suggest that Bristol is probably the best at the moment.
Like you, I get annoyed when really simple grammar errors are made. It is more annoying when one thinks that many of them could easily be solved with a press of the 'spell/grammar check' button.
They are notes, not a text book, and as such can be a little ‘terse’ in their delivery. They must give you all of the information required by the JAA Learning Objectives but some of it is little more than a simple statement of fact without explanation. All notes have been approved by the CAA as suitable for the course. (Or so I have been told :hmm:)
A pedagogical element is provided by the instructor in the classroom; for the DL student the provider should be offering this alongside the notes. I judge the quality of a DL provider by how they lead students through the material, not just on the material itself.
Starways, good luck with your studies. I have enjoyed DL and I am sure you will.
Keg

[Kiteman76]

I am about to start my ATPL exams and am wondering which is the best school to do them with. I know Bristol is one of the most reputable but have been offered a special rate with Cranfield (CATS). Which of the two is better, or does it not make much difference which school you choose? Many thanks in advance!!

[Cutoff]

Well some of this is down to you, you have to put the effort in too. I can only speak of Bristol cos that is where I did mine, I found them first class, I have no idea whether CATs are anygood or not, this is going to be your problem with this question most of us have only used one school. If we passed the exams then that school was good, if we failed then it was bad???

Good luck

[dwshimoda]

Kiteman, These were two of the schools I considered. What I will say is don't go somewhere just because they are doing you a "special offer" DL is hard - very hard - I've now only got 5 exams left to go, so have a good idea of the amount of time you need to put in.

On top of that, you need to make sure that the support you need is there when you need it, and the training material is top quality. The other big factor (if you have a job to do as well) is hoe the groundschools / brush-ups work. It is all time of work, and you need to work out which method is best for you.

Most of all, try and speak to some people who've been to both (you can always turn up at the school and speak to students) and see what they think.

With ATPL theory by DL, the course price isn't the headline - you will spend £800 on exams if you pass first time. You need to work out the adittional cost of resits and extra training if you don't get the quality materials & support you need.

DW.

[T668BFJ]

Big question really is,
Do you know from passed history that you can actually study consistantly for upto a year without being physically taught, i.e. you do all the work.
Then have someone review it at the end ?
If so then DL is for you and I would recommend Bristol, but I am biased thats where id di mine.
If the answer was "No" you need to consider a modular Full time Theory Course at somewhere like London Met or Oxford. There are many schools that do the theory so research them all.

Good luck with the choice

[TruTh747]

I have only ever heard good things about BGS.... :ok:

[Deano777]

Bristol get's my vote every time, but generally like everyone else as I have only studied with one school I can only comment on that school, instructors are top notch, notes are great, and feedback as good.

[Squawk 2650]

Cant speak for CATS but did all mine a bristol, they are an exellent bunch I dont think you will hear a bad word said about them.. good luck with it all

S
;)

[neil_1821]

First i would like to say it depends if you want residential course or not as only CATS do the residential course. Secondly i would highly recommend going around these places, i was unsure myself and i went down to cranfield, accidentally had a look around cabair and then CATS, and i have enrolled for CATS course in september, and i got the special price too, but that's not the only reason, the instructors are kind easy to talk to people and they have the highest pass rate in the UK because he said is his honest with you, They have a huge extensive database for the students to try questions as a laugh or seriously and you really have got to go down there to understand what i'm talking about, i can't say all the good things about it because there are too many:ok:

[Kiteman76]

Thanks for all your help! From what you have said probably best to stick with Bristol, but will go and visit them and make my decision that way...

Cheers :ok:

[planeeasy7]

I'm currently Studying with CATS DL, I've done the first two stages and looking to take my last stage in next month or so.
I cant say i know about Bristol but i was looking at them when choosing a school.
They seemed organised but i chose CATS because of the 3 stage method. I just felt splitting the exams would give me more flexibility and with all my exams to date passed i must say its working.

The Internet site CATS provide for the training is very good, it ties in with the study guides and is clear and in depth with detail.

Speaking to some students when i have come in to do the ground schools, the In house is good, cant say ive spoke to anyone with any complaints.

I would strongly advise to visit each school and make up your own mind.
The talk on here is all valid but i wouldnt ever do anything because people tell me its good until ive checked out all options myself.

cheers

PlaneEasy7

[T668BFJ]

Put it into context, from what I hear from friends studying there.
Goto Flight Training Europe (Jerez) and when you start to cram for your exams, what do they give you ?

Bristol Ground School feedback

Read into that what you will.

[sam34]

hi!

about Bristol, could tell me what do you think about thier CD ATPL JAA ??

I am not doing atpl with them, but i am interested about this CD, but it is very expensive 330 £ :eek:
is ti good for exam ?

[mcgoo]

the cd contains all the manuals on it, plus animations and training programs for the crp5, gyros, fms etc

[FFP]

Bristol . . . .Bristol .. . . . Bristol. .. . .

[OpenCirrus619]

CATS....CATS....CATS

OC619

[DRS PILOT]

Hi there,

I am looking to start a JAA Distance Learning Course for the JAA ATPL. Several sources have indicated that I only need to do 10% of the total 650 hours required for a full-time course and study the rest at home. However, I can't find an official document that says this.

Would anyone know where I can find this information?

[mcgoo]

speak to Alex at Bristol Ground School www.bristol.gs he will be able to help i'm sure

[DRS PILOT]

speak to Alex at Bristol Ground School www.bristol.gs he will be able to help i'm sure

Thanks for the reply

Cheers,
DRS PILOT

[Happy Wanderer]

Hi everyone,

Some advice please from folks who've gone down this route already - particularly anyone doing their ATPLs 'full-time' at home.

I'm planning on starting my ATPLs in August/September and am not sure at the moment whether to do a full-time classroon-based course or distance learning. Preference at the moment is to go for the latter (with BGS), but having spent the last three months at home doing the seven PPL exams, I'm seriously wondering whether I should be looking to do a full-time course.

Putting costs, choice of training establishments etc to one side for the moment (this thread is NOT intended to kick off another debate on the relative merits of BGS v other schools ;) ) what from people's experiences are the big +pluses and -minuses of each method of studying?

For example:

Has anyone gone down the distance learning route and wished in hindsight they'd done the course full-time, or vice versa? If so, why?

For home-based learners, how have you kept yourself focused and motivated? Have you missed day-to-day contact with people (I found the PPL exams a very solitary experience)?

Has anyone on a full-time course found themselves held back by 'slower learners'? Would you have preferred the flexibility of home-based learning?

Whilst I know the decision is ultimately mine at the end of the day, any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

HW

[littco]

Hi Happy Wanderer.

I was in exactly the same situation about 5 months ago, as I had planned on going to London Met to do the ATPL while at the same time thought about BGS.

I ended up making the decision of going for BGS for a number of reasons.

1) I could start the course when I wanted rather than when the full time school started.

2) I could work at a pace that suited me again rather than what the full time course did

3) I could work from home and fit my hour building in around it. IE if the weather was good in the morning, fly then study in the afternoon.

4) The time scale of Distance learning means that , working hard I can have the 14 exams sat in 5 months rather than the 8-10 months the full time courses give.

Having just sat the mod 1 exams for BGS I can honestly say that I made the right choice, the course with bristol was 1st class, Alex and all the teachers there really know their stuff, and I mean really really know their stuff. The back up and support is fantastic.

Although the 2 week refresher course was Bloody hard work, it was great fun and Tom who takes the Flight planning classes is an absolute legend, If I don't remember anything else I will remember his stories...

The way I see it is, If you want an airline job bad enough then you need to work hard, BGS supply you with everything you need to suceed, so all you need to do is put in the effort and you can't but not do well.....

How have I and am keeping focused? It's my money & my future that I'm putting on the line, that's enough for me.

And in hindsight would I have gone another route? Absolutely not.

The bottom line is you have to do what is right and best for you but what ever that is make sure it's 100%....Good luck either way.

[microfilter]

I did full-time ATPLs at Oxford- don't bother- it's totally over-rated- save some cash- all the answers are on the Bristol database- read your stuff at home then hammer the questions on BGS.

[Leezyjet]

I am self studying with BGS along with working full time.

The ATPL ground school was always going to be my weakest area, and I really wanted to take it as a full time course, but couldn't afford to take the time off work to do it, so I have had to opt for the self study route.

If I'm in a class room environment, I'm fine with study and take it in and get on with it, but when I'm left to my own devices, I'll do anything rather than study - heck I've even done ironing !!.

I just can't seem to get into it when I'm at home as there are too many distractions such as the TV, PC, X-Box, G/F etc. The only time I have been doing any study is when I have been working nights, so I have only been doing about 2-4 hours a week and I'm now not working nights anymore, so not been doing any the last couple of weeks.

I know this isn't going to get me a seat in a nice shiny jet, but I've got 2 months working overseas coming up in which I plan to take all my stuff with me as I'll be stuck in a compound when I'm not working with little else to do, and a load of qualified ATPL's on tap :ok:. I'm hoping I will be able to plough through most of it during that time.

I have been toying with the idea of jacking the self study in and taking the 6 months off work and paying to go on a full time course, but I can't justify the extra expense at this stage - I could if I knew for certain there was a job waiting, but alas there isn't so I have to keep a cash flow coming in whilst still keeping costs down.

It depends on your own study style, some people (like me) just cannot self study, some can. Weigh the costs of both up including the time and make your decision from there.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

:)

[I'll Be Realistic]

HW,

be a little cautious. I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course. I understand that CAP 682 (the CAA publication on approvals) states that unless a student is exempt the training requirements, then there is a minimum time scale involved, that must equate to a 650 hr course. (approx 6 months for the entire course)

I haven't looked at 682 for some time, but to my knowledge, it's there, so you might want to consider that if you are looking for speed (which isn't everything btw). Ask Alex if in doubt. He will tell you.

Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects? You mentioned that 5 months ago you had the same difficult choice to make, you now you have just finished the first round. Is that because you didn't start 5 months ago?

HW, my advice is to choose a course based on your self discipline. If you might get distracted by the TV / Pub / etc, take the residential. In the long run it will be quicker. Remember, if you fail 1 exam, you add 1-2 months to the overall time before completion, as you can never resit the next month even if the CAA accepted your application. If you failed it in May, why would you be ready for it in June? See what I'm saying?

Your choice, but I could never do DL. Aways admire those who can and do, though.

IBR

[Ross Nelson]

Self study is a good route to go. You can take it in your own time and then attend a brush up at the end to help with anything you're stuck on!
I am doing the Bristol Groundschool- their pass rate is fantastic and the brushups really get you ready for the exams.
Depends on other commitments. I work full time so full groundschool was not really an option, but I don't think you need it anyway.
It won't necessarily take longer to do distance learning if you have the discipline to study. I know I guy who did the first 8 in 2 months and passed them all no problem.
Good luck whichever way you go!

[kui2324]

If you can afford the time off from earning at the 'day job' then full time seems a very good option. Unfortunately not all of us have that luxury either in time or finances.

Having just finished all 14 DL it is hard work to motivate yourself at the end of a hard days (or nights) work. I used overnight shifts to get me on track. Not much else to do when incarcerated at work on a nine hour shift when there's not even access to the internet, oh and no work to do! But there are a few who have done DL at home full time and just sat down and got on with it.

Ultimately it's going to be what works for you.

[littco]

HW,
I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course.

Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects?
IBR

Just to set the record straight and put u back on the mark! I passed my PPl on the 4th April and sat my first exam on the 5th June, I make that 8 weeks for mod 1! And I am booked to go back to BGS in August for the September exams which 12 weeks. Therefore 5 months in total, so it isn't that unrealistic!

As for my decision being 5 months before hand that was the time I had to decide about going to London Met. The courses only started in March and June and I had to decide in January which one I wanted to aim for. Obviously I didn't, as I didn't want to have to wait untl June to start the ATPL.

As for the 650 hours required for the course.... 5 months = 20 weeks that's only 32 hours a week study and bearing in mind I've been doing this full time, IE not working I've probably been putting in 40-50 a week so far! So it is possible.......

[no sponsor]

I did the BGS course. I did around 600hrs of study at home (not including the exam weeks and brush-up courses), and had a full time job, requiring lots of international travel. It was hard at times, although not impossible. It's quite doable. You have to be very motivated if you are going to go through it all diligently and try to understand it.

There is no doubt that some just sit in front of the BGS database and learn the questions and answers. You could pass the ATPL exams by doing that. Someone I met at the exams had spent 6 weeks on module 2, including the 2 week brush up, but spent the majority of their time learning the questions. I can't see them knowing anything about those subjects, however. The flip side is that questions try and catch you out, so even if you understand the topic, the questions are worded in a way just to confuse you. So you have to be aware that learning questions/feedback is a big part of the reality in sitting the exams.

I reckon I've forgotten most of the stuff I learnt, even though I did try and learn/understand the subjects. Not sure that would be different for full-time, or not. At the end of the day, I needed to work to pay the mortgage, and continue in my present career. 12 months after passing my CPL/IR, and still without an interview, I think it's the right thing to do. And I don't owe anyone anything (apart from the mortgage of course).

[What's a Girdler]

Go Distance Learning my friend, I did, passed no problems, they were a piece of cake, I also went part time on the CPL (evenings & weekends), hard work but a piece of p*ss, passed first time, now on the IR even easier than the CPL, much more clear cut (you either nail it or you don't), my advice keep working, I'm not in debt and I've got this far. In my view it's a myth that you need to quit work at all, I have a high pressure job too!

[tailwheel76]

I studied DL with BGS and had no problems. But as others have said treat it with caution, if you have a full time job and struggle to motivate yourself you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I worked half days, and studied the other half, having at least one day off per week so I still had a life and wanted to study rather than seeing it as a chore, and I had no probs. So, in all it took 10 months from start to finish and about 720 hours (I'm sad a kept a log to see how much I did out of interest:8 ). It can be done quicker I'm sure, but thats what suited me.

I know people who had full time jobs, and by the time they had got home, had tea and gone to the gym/pub etc it was late so study was put off or was poor quality and they never completed the course. Make sure if you work it does not take priority.

I also did the CPL part time with minimum disruption to save on massive loans.

[2close]

I wanted to knock work on the head a year ago and undertake full time self study and I signed up for DL with BGS. I made the mistake of telling my employer I'd stay on until a replacement was found - I'm still there!!! Living in West Wales and working in the SE, commuting on a weekly basis, living in a B&B and working long hours, struggling to keep eyes open most evenings, has made DL impossible - for me at least.

I'm DEFINITELY finishing work at the end of July latest and am now faced with the decision of whether to bash on with DL - full time - or whether to bin DL and go residential.

The cost difference is quite enormous - the residential course when you add exams and accommodation, etc. comes to approx £ 6K, whereas I've already paid for Mod 1 of the DL.

But I have to be realistic about my own limitations - I am without doubt a classroom learner and not very good at self study. I do not want to be in this same position in 6 months time so I am thinking residential is the way for me, even if it is going to cost me an extra £4.5K - OUCH!.

Sorry if this isn't much help to the original post but I'm just trying to show that it's horses for courses and we all have to recognise our own strengths and weaknesses and apply ourselves where our best opportunities lie.

HTH

2close

[Leezyjet]

Having just done a couple of hours tonight with a friend who has passed 13 out of the 14, I have realised that the stuff in them isn't actually that difficult if there is someone to explain it to you.

However when you are distance learning on your own and you don't understand, then there is nobody to ask for clarification which then starts you on the downward spiral of not being arsed to continue when you don't understand it.

I wish that Bristol would make some DVD's of the lectures that you could purchase so you could watch at home with your books when you are finding it tough going - a bit like those videos you can buy of those two hippies from America showing you how to fly. I mentioned this to my friend tonight and he said he would have definately bought them if they had been available.

Alex, if you read this, I'll take 20% of each one :ok:

:)

[cityjet]

Hi all,

Would like a little bit of information. Im thinking of doing the distance learning approach to cover my ATPL theory while im still in employment and before i go off to the school of my choice to do my practical.
I assume by covering the theory now i can save time out of employment while im completing the rest of my pilot training, is this correct?
Do i need my PPL to start the distance learning?
Also i guess this will mean i would have to do a modular approach rather than intergrated?

Hope you can just advise me, i am really thinking about start the theory soon.

Thanks

Frank

[mcgoo]

Yes you are correct, you need to hold an ICAO PPL to commence an ATPL distance learning course, I did mine while working full time.

[churley1987]

Interested in reading this!
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to complete your distance learning while still in full time employment?
I'm thinking about doing the same thing!
Cheers
CJ

[Mercenary Pilot]

There are plenty of pilots who did thier PPL before deciding to make a career out of it and then deciding that an integrated course was the way forward for them.

If you want to go down the modular route then you need to have a PPL and I belive there is a stipulation which says you need to have it issued for at least 3 or 6 months before being allowed to sit any ATPL exams. I dont have a copy of LASORS to hand at the moment but its written in there someplace.

Make sure you do alot of research before diving into the world of commercial aviation, mistakes are very costly to reverse!

Good Luck!!

[mcgoo]

it took about 9 months, although with hindsight I probably could have done it quicker. What I mean by that is I hadn't studied for ages so setting proper goals etc and working efficiently it could be done quicker

[Hour Builder]

I've just started my atpl theory.

I work full time, and study for 2 hours everyday after work @ work, where its nice and quiet.

I've been studying for 3 weeks, and am into 3 rd frame of bristols notes. I plan on sitting first 8 exams in feb, march at the latest. I would do them in jan, but i have a busy nov/dec so wouldnt be ready. I then plan on doing next 6 exams in may/june. so that'll be 8 months for me, 1st time passes. got to have a goal.

HB

[oneip01]

Hi,

I am planning to begin the modular route with Multiflight next year who use Bristol Ground School for the ATPL exams.

Would anyone recommend I brush up on my physics and maths (GCSE standard) in preperation for the ATPL studies? (Any specific areas?)

I am expecting the ATPL exams to be the most difficult part of the course for me, and want to use the next few months to help myself prepare for them.

Any feedback / suggestions would be appreciated!

Peter

[Another TD]

Has anybody completed the OATS ATPL distance learning course recently? How did you find the exam prep courses,are they adequate at preparing for the exam?

The reason I ask is that the few Oxford books that I have read seem poorly presented for self study i.e.. no index,too comprehensive or in the case of the a/c performance book have insuffient detail with some of the sample charts not used in the exam! I have bought BGS course notes via ebay and I have to say they are spot on,very professional.

My dilemma is that I want to go on the waypoints course so as to have as good a cv as possible and will use the BGS notes to study at home with then attend the oxford prep course as part of the waypoints,I just wont tell them I didn't unwrap their notes!

Informed replies only please.

[moyeslitespeed]

Hi,
I'm on full time job.
~25 days of holidays each year :} Can't leave the job for long.

So I'm thinking about modular training.

First one is PPL. Ok. I can do it without leaving the job at the local airport.

Next is obtaining ATPL. I heard about ATPL distance learning. How does it work?

What about CPL, ME, IR, MCC ?

The main reason for posting this thread is how much time involves being away from job? Is it possible to do the distance learning on CPL, ME, IR, MCC?

I've already read this thread
Some general background info, frequently asked here
but didn't find answers there

Thank you :)

Best regards

[fatlazypilot]

Hi,


What about CPL, ME, IR, MCC ?

The main reason for posting this thread is how much time involves being away from job? Is it possible to do the distance learning on CPL, ME, IR, MCC?


Best regards
I dont think so. But the ATPL distance learning could be completed in less then 6 months with about 30 hours of study each week. The ATPL, you do on the internet, some schools require you to take their final exams at their facility, and its much cheaper all in all. PEA offers JAA ATPL ground school for less then $2000.

[moyeslitespeed]

Ok. Thanks.
what about the ATPL exams? How much time does it take to pass the exams (days) ?

[SinBin]

I'll put your mind at ease, I work for a large ATC service provider, I work long hours and have a stressful job at the best of times, I get given 28 days holiday a year. I did the PPL, distance learning ATPL/ 103 Hours building, CPL, MEP, IR and MCC, all in two years, worked full time and had first time passes. I'm now not in debt, have the fATPL in my hand, and actively seeking that first pilot job! I even have enough left over if I need to pay for a TR. It is possible to do it all part time if you're prepared to work your butt off, I did it all at weekends and evenings, and took 4 weeks off last year to do the full time aspects of groundschool which are required by law. Good luck and it is possible! Don't let ANYONE tell you it's not. Some schools told me it was impossible not to do full time, well I guess I proved them wrong, and they never saw my money!!

PM me if you like

[Grass strip basher]

To date my experience has been the same as SinBin... c150-200 hours total flying time and 2/3rds of the way through groundschool.... working a 60-70 hour week and still finding all the necessary time to study (and not sacrificing social life completely!).... sure it is taking a little longer (exams will take about 12 months in total) but I am actually quite enjoying the whole process at the moment.... it is a bit of light relief from the toils of my current day job!

[Cutoff]

I did all the training, PPL, IMC, Multi,night, CPL / IR and MCC as well as the ATPLs without having to pack up work. The only snag was the MCC, BUT, that was my own doing, I needed it in a hurry so I took a couple of weeks off work unpaid. I had actually found an MCC that I could do in the evenings, but elected to take the time off work, so this could be completed part time too. It will take you longer, the part time route, but more than possible.

I started the PPL in Spring 2002 and finished the MCC Sep 2005.

It did pay off too, I am 36 and currently being paid to fly a 54seat TP, without having to pay for a type rating, when I started the job I had 330hrs total.

Good luck.

[dwshimoda]

I'm in the middle of it currently. My experience has been that doing the ATPL's was tough, but doable, as long as you are dedicated. What knackered me out was using all my holiday for a year for groundschool and exams - when I finally passed the last ATPL's I took a week off to do nothing & recover.

What's consuming my time now is the availability of slots to complete the CPL (got my 170A coming up this Saturday) - it's not dedicating the time - it's the weather being flyable when you have slots booked. I know this is beyond our control, but I literally lost 6 weeks of time due to dodgy evenings / week-ends.

I'm hoping to start the IR in the next few weeks, and hopefully that will, by it's nature, be a little less weather dependant.

It's definitely doable, just needs dedication, and a little luck with the weather!

Cutoff - do you mind sharing where you found to do an evening MCC - I've found several that will be quite flexible, but they all still need some time off.

DW.

[Cutoff]

At the time I was looking to do it, this time last year, Jetlinx did the simulator element in the evenings. There is still the groundschool, done at Gloucester a weekend or two prior to the sim sessions.
It does depend on sim availability and there being a partner for the sim though.

Regards

[dwshimoda]

Thanks Cutoff.

Must admit, Jetlinx is my preferred choice at the minute. As you say, it depends on getting a partner - I'll hopefully be starting toadvertise for one in 3 /4 months time!

Congrats on the job too - it's nice to know there is some hope for those of us in training who are the wrong side of 30!

DW.

[Cutoff]

Of course there is hope. The key is timing, I think anyway, keeping an eye on the websites that open and making sure that you are one of the first to apply. It is very much down to luck, it certainly is NOT about paying for a type rating, no-one is going to take a low houred guy with a type rating, they will want to put them through their own training program - to prove that they are up to the the task.
good luck with the MCC, a pity that you do not have it already as the FlyBe site is to open any time.

[SinBin]

I did my MCC in the evenings at BCFT! Recently!

[Lonedog]

Allo

anybody have some personal experience with these guys?

I'm interested in doing a licence conversion from Canadian ATPL to JAA, but their webpage hasn't been updated since 2005 and much of it is incomplete. I'm wondering if I should interpret this as a sign of the bigger picture.

Appreciate hearing your thoughts

Ldog

[flyndad]

Can anyone advise me on the quality of the distance learning programme with this school? I live in Canada and it would probably be more cost effective for me to complete the ATPL exams with them if I get some positive feedback. All replies appreciated.

[Bandit650]

Hi All
Can anyone offer some examples of how long it took them to complete ATPL studies by distance learning?
Many thanks
Bandit650

[Aeronut]

16 months. Actually quite enjoyed it! Studying with full time employment requires discipline and a sort of timetable to set the routine and let others know when you are and are not available.

[jarvis123]

8 months with GTS (who were very good), but that was going sum!

[Bandit650]

any views on if having a PPL (i.e possess some air knowledge) assists to a significant degree?
I'm curious as I did an web-based online specimen air-law ATPL test out of sheer interest the other day was surpised to find I had scored 65% (I realise that's a fail but I was expecting a much lower score)

[mcgoo]

You have to hold an ICAO PPL to commence ATPL studies.

[Rob's Dad]

Bandit

It's a bit like going from GCSE to A levels to a degree - some assumed knowledge, some common areas, some 'well it's not quite like that', some new concepts and some delving into far more detail. If you are going modular then you would need PPL and 150 hours before you can enrole on an ATPL DL course; therefore, yes, having a PPL helps.

I did all 14 subjects in 11 months but frankly it was a relentless slog and it hurt on top of a job and family commitments. I wonder if I wouldn't have been better taking longer and 'enjoying' the experience.

RD

[mcgoo]

you don't need 150 hours, just an ICAO PPL.

[finals24]

12 months via the Cabair DL course. Well structured with the advantage of doing the exams over 4 sittings (managable chunks). Works very well if you pass them first time but can put you under pressure of being timed out if you fail the later ones.

[Rob's Dad]

you don't need 150 hours, just an ICAO PPL.
True, though as you can not have a CPL with less than 200 hours, the training provider I used wanted to see 150 hours prior to enrolement.

[renright]

I will be studying with Bristol G/S in next year and I was aiming to complete both modules in 6 months. Is this a realistic target or is it too optimistic?
Thanks:ok:

[bellend]

I am currently at work with my head in the bristol GS books:O

6 months for the lot would be pushing it in my opinion,more like 9 months minimum for the 2 courses,there is just so much to take in quantity wise

[Finals19]

I too am looking at Bristol GS next year and am working out a study sched of about 6hrs a day - yes I am doing full time D/L for reasons of cost and lack of proximity to a decent full time course.

I am hoping to complete in under 9 months. Realistic or no?

[bellend]

6 hours a day? If you can seriously study that long and digest/understand then yes I would say easily realistic without a doubt. 9-12 months minimum is realistic if you study every day regularly 3 hours and nail the exams first go. Its all down to how well you can hold the info in your head,believe me each chapter contains lots of bits to remember,it is vast,not difficult,just a lot to hold on to

personally i find anything over 3 hours and I start to just read the words instead of digesting the information,I am fortunate that in my job I can swop shifts for nights and get stuck in while getting paid !

[Finals19]

Thanks for the info bellend...I am actually splitting it into 1.5hr chunks with 30 min breaks between chunks. I scheduled myself 9-5 everyday. I know it sounds optimistic - maybe it will be, so we shall see how it goes. Its either that or move somewhere closer to a full time integrated course, but the financial aspect of that adds a lot more to the price.

Hopefully I am not being too naive...:rolleyes:

[mac57]

I have been studying via DL for three months (evenings and weekends) and am about half-way through Mod 1.

To come back to Bandit 650's original question I would say that there are at least three factors that affect the time spent on a DL course:

1. Each person has their own optimum pace for learning (how quickly information is assimilated, and how well it sticks). For me it is slow and steady, but others may race through and it all goes in. Good for them!

2. Each person has their own circumstances (job, age, available time off, kids, finances), and although getting through the course is a high priority, it may be one among many, and these may have to be weighed carefully. I'd rather take a couple of extra months to complete if my family is going to be intact at the end of it!

3. Each person has a different level of existing knowledge, and so there may be elements of the course that are easy for some (merely revision) and very difficult for others (completely uncharted territory). For example I have a background in communications technology and so Maths and Radio theory was mostly revision. However Meteorology is the bane of my life.

It is true that the longer you take, the more opportunity there is for things studied a while ago to be forgotten. Conversely the quicker you rush through some topics, the less opportunity there is to really consolidate your knowledge.

Like most things it is a question of balance.

[littco]

5 Months. That was full time.. Did mod 1 in 8 weeks and Mod 2 in 12 weeks.

Mod 2 wasn't any harder, in fact the work load was less. I just wanted to do some hour building at the same time while it was summer and the weather was good.

Passed everything 1st time with a v.good average so it is possible, but bloody hard work.

[hobbit1983]

I'm planning to do the Bristol D/L groundschool next year, working 2 days a week & studying 3 days a week, then gliding/hourbuilding the other 2.

I favour this way as opposed to full-time learning as I think it'll give me more flexibity - i.e. if the weather's good on Thursday, I can nominate that day to do some hourbuilding, and study on Sunday instead when the weather's poor.

But on the flip side, I'm going to need more self-discipline studying on my own, than I would in a classroom with other students.

Also - Bristol sound very good from what I've read in more than one post here, and are also cheaper.

I've allowed 12 months to do this - bearing in mind it's all relative (to my learning style/discipline etc) has anyone followed a similar plan to good results?

[Finals19]

But on the flip side, I'm going to need more self-discipline studying on my own, than I would in a classroom with other students

Hobbit1983 - These elements are of primary concern to me too. I just can't justify the extra cost right now in a commute from where I live to a full time training provider. I am actually within commuting distance of Oxford, but am resisting their full time ground school to a point because I am not sure if it is right for me (age, peer group, being modular, information gathered on Pprune etc)

Hopefully Bristol GS' structured program will negate some of these effects! :rolleyes:

[hobbit1983]

Finals19 - Yeah hoping the Bristol GS structure will help somewhat, especially with the online forum etc.

If you don't mind me asking, what specific points on age/peer group etc dissuaded you from going full-time? I decided to do D/L because I thought it would be better for me overall, in terms of flexibilty, cost, and learning style (Even though self-study is reliant on self-discipline, I think it will suit me better than a classroom environment for the greater part).

[Finals19]

Hobbit...

Some of the main reasons:

Location: With the exception of Oxford, my nearest commutable full time school would probably be Cranfield, which is 50 minutes each way.

Cost: My planned living arrangements will be very low cost. Moving nearer to a full time course would incurr exorbitant living expenses in rent (for me anyway!)

Age / experience: To a degree this is a factor. I am not really a newbie to flying as I am a foreign licence holder about to convert (see profile) and have 1000+ hours. So being able to work at my own pace (i.e. move faster over some familiar topics and slower over others) will hopefully suit me.

That said, it would be nice in many respects to have classmates and not just stare at the wall instead! :ok:

Feel free to PM me if you would like more info.

[bellend]

If I could have done the classroom route I would have taken it hands down,it is very hard for me to resist going out instead of studying and takes real commitment.I admit I have probably been slack in my study recently as going on holiday in the middle really put the brakes on,you have to be able to timetable study time 5 days a week and stick to it regardless.I am now firmly back on track:ok:

FWIW I have supplemented my Bristol notes with some Oxford CBT CD roms,I have found that just reading alone is not enough for me to really take in and understand,it is much easier to see things graphically which is lacking to some extent on the Bristol DVD as this is more of an electronic version of the folders with a few graphic illustrations.

Extremely satisfied with Bristol though, in no way do I imply anything else its just my thick skull !

[hobbit1983]

Finals,

Agree with you totally on the pace issue - think it'll be a big bonus to be able to cover difficult subjects at a personal pace. I also will be studying from home, which as you say should cut down on costs somewhat.

Hopefully students will be able to get together outside of the revision sessions - meeting up for discussion revision etc would be a good idea.

So do you need the entire JAA ATPL exam blocks, given you've already got a (Canadian?) CPL? Seems a bit harsh (but no-one ever said the regs had to be common sense!!)

Bellend,

Glad to hear Bristol are living up to the rep. It was recommended to me that the Oxford Met CD would be damn good buy, would you agree? Good to hear you're back on track - any tips for slack-disciplined students like me to stay focused? :ok:

[bellend]

hobbit

The Oxford met cd is the very one I am currently using! I heartliy recommend it as it has really helped me on visualising the information,something that text simply cant do if like me you dont have a very imaginative mind.

As for tips to stay focus,My motivation is my desire to get the hell out of my current job,not because I hate it ,as it has given me the oppurunity to go for my dream job but it is not what I want to do for the rest of my days,all I want to do is fly aircraft! Having a job that you love and are proud to do is my desire and that keeps me on track,

just dont go to Florida have a nice time like I did and come back all depressed about the state of the country you live in!! But that is another topic:ugh:

good luck to us all:ok:

[Finals19]

Hobbit...
Yeah harsh it is indeed! If I had 1500TT, I would be allowed some minor exemptions, but still need to sit all 14 exams through a recognised FTU! :ugh:
I will have to look into the whole BGS forum and see if guys already meet up outside revision weeks to discuss and trouble shoot (interspersed undoubtedly with drinking and telling wide eyed pilot stories..:D )

[mcgoo]

Theres a set of Bristol manuals on ebay at the minute

[Callsign Kilo]

If anyone offers you GCNS's notes, take the GNAV ones only! The rest are crap!

[vigilant_spacey]

not the best notes on the world,take a while to download, but try:

http://www.wiljam.com/subjects.htm

[Hour Builder]

I have a copy of 1 of the 14 ATPL exam notes going spare.

I have Intruments module if you are interested, from Bristol Ground School.

HB

[templar29]

Because of my job, I'm very busy...I would like to take the ATPL(H), but the best way for me is to use a distance learning school...So, I'm looking for a school for ATPL(H), more particularly in Europe, which propose,not only a distance learning courses but the means to have the test done online too.Otherwise, if not, you can propose some schools in other countries...Thx by advance...

[helicopter-redeye]

I have a passing recollection there was somewhere where you could, but you had to sit in an exam room to do it, so it was just the same as filling in those luvverly exam answer sheets in a HB-pencil-with-erasor-attached.

h-r;)



NB ATPLH ground schools in UK, in alpha order, for busy people wanting to pass:- Bristol, Cabair, Ground Training Services, Oxford, ..

[g-mady]

Bristol ground school sounds like the one for you (www.bristol.gs). Distance learning, all progress tests are done on your PC (you only send the results occasionally).
Of course you still have to sit the exams at one of 4 places though:ok:

MADY

[helicopter-redeye]

If because of your job your really busy then Ground Training Services (www.gtserv.co.uk) sound like the one for you. Individual tuition and small classes rather than a 'sausage machine' (and you get to learn the stuff from some of the industries longest serving players).

This is where people from the other schools go to learn what they did not learn.

a very busy h-r;)

[paco]

Templat29 - Check your PMs.

Phil

[templar29]

Thank you everybody...I'll take a good look at the different schools...Paco, I'll be patient...see you soon everybody...I really enjoy by this forum...It's a mine of information for someone (FI in the French Navy) who wants to switch to the aeronautical civilian world...Thx a lot...

[oscaR22]

...This is just another post requesting info on how to become a pilot. Not exactly!!

I've been through the all the posts relating to commercial training and with no options left I am afraid it's another training question.:oh:

I have a ppl(h) and have recently decided to go for it and get these commercial exams out of the way.

Now with many friends having just completed the Bristol ATPL course I have heard only excellent feedback. But with the line of work i may enter into, and the area of the industry in which my interests lie, i'm only looking at Commercial exams initially.

The problem is that Bristol only do an ATPL course. I havn't yet discovered wheather or not the CAA will allow me to prescribe to the ATPL course, but only sit the exams that apply to CPL theory. Any suggestions?

Apparently the school accelling in CPL theory is Dragon, but while Bristol have exam sittings in Glasgow, Dragon only sit at Gatwick, a little further from up in the Highlands.

Quite a quandry. I'm sure many will advise just to get on with ATPL instead. Sound advice as I've been told but with no apparent future in flying Super Pumas North Sea, I'd really like to get my commercial, stat, and get flying!!

All contributions welcome and very much appreciated.

Thanks. oscar22

[Whirlygig]

Not only is there Dragon and paco's course (which does look quite good!), there is also Atlantic Flight Training in Conventry who offer CPL(H) ground school; it is however, more fixed wing based!!

As far as I know, all the CPL exams have to be taken at Gatwick and they are only run every two months, instead of monthly like ATPL. When I sat mine, there were people who came down from Scotland so I don't believe there's an alternative (unless this has changed in the last couple of months).

CPL/ATPL debate? Clue - I did CPL. Wish I hadn't now; should've done ATPL.

The saving is four exams (9 CPL; 13 ATPL). ATPL for example has Gen Nav and Radio Nav as two separate subjects. If, say, you were weak at one of those, you could pass the other whereas for CPL, the two are lumped together so any weakness in one area could let you down.

Secondly, the syllabus is not that much shorter than ATPL so one has to learn almost as much stuff but over fewer exams.

Cheers

Whirls


Paco, you forgot E&OE!!!

[londonPilot]

Hi, Please could some one tell me if there is anyone who may be able to give me part-time private tuition to assist me with my ATPL (A) Distance Learning. Ideally situated in London , cash in hand.

Many thanks

pls email davidlsander @gmail.com ([email protected])

[Bravo73]

Hi, Please could some one tell me if there is anyone who may be able to give me part-time private tuition to assist me with my ATPL (A) Distance Learning. Ideally situated in London , cash in hand.


ATPL(A)?

You might be better off asking in one of the Wannabes forums. :ok:

[samwells]

hi, I'm dead keen to do my ppl and cpl. I'm currently living in the uk but want to get abroad and do a fast track uk JAA aproved course. As you can imagine its a bit of a maze out there, with people telling me different things. If anyone could give me a bit of info, I'd be very gratefull. Is it mportant that i get a Uk JAA license, I dont want to come back and live in europe straight away but will eventually. Dose anyone know of any schools that offer it, i've only found one but i'm guessing there must be more.
Cheers for any help you can give.

[allanon1980]

Hi Guys,

Hoping to start my ATPL(H) distance learning in January. Anyone with any recommendations as far as schools are concerned. I'm thinking about Bristol or Cranfield, but would like to hear any other opinions.....

[Whirlygig]

Bristol has a very good reputation and I've never heard a bad word said against them. However, if I were to do the exams again (heaven forbid!), I'd go to Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training.

Cheers

Whirls

[DBChopper]

However, if I were to do the exams again (heaven forbid!), I'd go to Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training.


And for what it's worth, so would I.

[Flugplatz]

Me too; I mean I did go there:) Phil got me through the CPL(H). They are flexible which helps if holding a job too.

Flug

[timex]

Bristol for me, thoroughly recommend it.

[Pandalet]

Another vote for Caledonian.

Be warned, at the time of writing, if you go with Bristol, you'll be doing the transitional course, which means you'll be learning all sorts of stuff about fixed wings that doesn't really apply to helicopters. I believe this is changing sometime soon, but that's how it is now.

[chcoffshore]

I think alot of your answers might be found on the sticky at the top of this forum.

[Whirlygig]

As with fixed wing, you can do either ATPL(H) exams or CPL(H). Bristol Ground School does ATPL(H) only, Atlantic Flight Training does CPL(H) only and CAPT does both (and with a more heli bias).

Cheers

Whirls

[Pandalet]

Whichever school you choose, make sure they do the rotary-specific course, and not the transitional one. I'm not sure whether anyone is still offering the transitional course, but it's very fixed-wing oriented, which is really only useful to a helicopter pilot if you plan to do your CPL(A)/ATPL(A) as well.

[paco]

Sam - we are the only school offering a helicopter-specific CPL(H) distance learning course. You can expect it to take somewhere between 4-5 months, based on 20 hours study a week - quicker or slower according to your personal circumstances.

There should be a big blue ad somewhere to the right of this page, but just in case there isn't, most of the questions you have should be answered at Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training (http://www.captonline.com).

Please feel free to PM if you have any more questions

Phil

[bigglesinborneo]

Veritair at cardiff are about to go live with a CPL(H) distance learning course. They have everything you need (and I mean everything) from private pilot right through to IR. Give them a call. Realistically it'll take longer than 4-5 months. Dont forget you have 9 exams to do and they're not easy - otherwise everyone would have it!

[paco]

Beg to differ biggles - the only guys at our place who don't do it in about 4-5 months are those that don't do the work or have to suspend for family reasons. There shouldn't be much difference between the PPL(H) and CPL(H) when all is said and done, leaving aside obvious differences like turbine engines, assuming the flight school did their job right in the first place.

Veritair's would be the old Dragon course.

Phil

[holybejaysus]

So is the new JAA heli course available now?

[murdock]

If Ventair is the old Dragon course, then I am not so sure that I would recommend it. Your best bet is to stick with CAPT online or Bristol, depending on whether you want to do CPL or ATPL.

[paco]

Yes, CPL(H) and ATPL(H) (and IR(H)) distance learning helicopter courses have been available from us for the past 2 years!

Bristol's is still an interim (i.e. 737-based) course.

In association with our training partners we can offer everything right through from PPL(H) to the IR and FI ratings. We are just about to announce (well, OK, I'm doing it now) an "integrated modular", by which I mean you can walk in off the street, get your PPL(H) straight off, study for your CPL(H) and end up with about 185 hours plus a JAA IR, which will include a twin rating.

You will also end up with CRM, Fire, First Aid and Dangerous Goods certificates, plus a couple of points off your insurance bill (in association with certain underwriters) and an avenue into selected AOC operators for hour building.

phil

[Heliringer]

Can anyone settle an arguement please.

Will a CASA ATPL H convert over to a JAA CPL H without doing all the CPL exams?

[Whirlygig]

How many hours? It might.

Cheers

Whirls

[Heli-Ice]

Heliringer

This is all about the JAA or non-JAA country thing.

Check JAR-FCL 2.015 & JAR-FCL 2.016.

According to that you can get an exemption from the theoretical training but would have to take the exams and the flight test.

Its turf but not that tough.

[Whirlygig]

I believe that if an ICAO ATPL holder has a gazillion hours, they are exempt some, if not all, the theory exams.

Cheers

Whirls

[Heli-Ice]

I guess if there is a will, there is a way :ok:

[General Mutley]

Has anybody from these forums been through the ATPL(H) with Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training? I like the look of their set up but it would be nice to hear from anyone who has used them previously - THANKS :ok:

[flyingtonka]

After having a very good discussion with the Chief Pilot at CAPT, I was was really quite impressed.
I like the helicopter specific aspect to their course.

Could I get some more input from anyone that has used their courseware?

I am trying to decide between Bristol GS and CAPT

[Bravo73]

I am trying to decide between Bristol GS and CAPT

With Bristol, you will learn about 737s. With CAPT, you will learn about helicopters.

Easy, wasn't it? ;)

[darrenphughes]

I'm just finishing up my distance learning course with CAPT. Last 2 exams next week for the ATPL. It's worked out just fine. They were quite accommodating towards my unique circumstances in getting me finished up. Phil is always quick to reply or return phone calls. Their service seems to be improving all the time, cause I see their progress tests are all take-able online now which is better than faxing the results like before.

As far as I can remember they had quite reasonable pricing compared to the other companies. I think that was one of the main reasons I went with them in the first place.

Try to do a residential course with them if you can. When I was there for the consolidation classroom time, I got the feeling that I would have got through the whole thing a lot more efficiently if I had to have been there in the classroom every day than studying on my own, I think that would be true for any distance learning course versus on site teaching.

[flyingtonka]

I note from your profile that your on Staten Island?

You fly out of Princeton?

[darrenphughes]

Yeah, how'd you guess? I'm one of the instructors at Nassau Helicopters. Just now noticing you're in NY. Where you based outta?

[Pandalet]

And another vote for CAPT. The Bristol question bank is worthwhile as final prep for the exams - £50 gets you 3 months of access. If you ask around, you may be able to find someone who finished up the month before you who isn't using the other 2 months of their subscription.

In summary, CAPT for the training, and a subscription to the Bristol question bank for exam practise.

[flyingtonka]

Thanks for the info - any particular reason why you would choose CAPT over the others?

[Whirlygig]

any particular reason why you would choose CAPT over the others?
Yes! (http://www.pprune.org/5352488-post217.html)

Cheers

Whirls

[darrenphughes]

In summary, CAPT for the training, and a subscription to the Bristol question bank for exam practise.


I would agree with the above. I used www.aviationexam.com for the exam practice. They were "ok", but they were incredibly slow to fix mistakes in their question bank. They have made some major changes to their site(for the better I think) and added to their question bank just this week, so hopefully it'll make for a better experience. I have yet to see much criticism for Bristol online system.

[General Mutley]

Are not all the Bristol question bank geared towards fixed wing whereas the CAPT course is the full ATPL H so the questions would be heli based???
:ok:

[Need money]

No not all - under the interim arrangement you do a helicopter specific Principles of Flight, both study and exam with Bristol.

[paco]

Bristol has heli questions. They are the best database - the problem is that the rest of Europe hasn't caught up with them yet! :) We recommend our students use it about 4 weeks before the exams, when they have enough knowledge to figure out the problems (not with Bristol but with the JAA!)

Phi

[n9537q]

Can someone please tell me what specific subjects are included in the modules 1 and 2 and each respective school: oxford, bristol, cabair, cranfield, bournemouth etc. In other words, what tests do you study for first? The reason I am asking is because I have not settled on a ground school provider yet, but I already have the books and want to get started.

For example, Naples Air Center has two modules:

1. Meteorology / Navigation / Instrumentation / Performance / Principles of Flight / VFR and IFR Comm

followed by

2. Radio Nav / Flight planning / Air Law / Mass and Balance / Operational Procedures / Aircraft Gen Know / Human Performance

In laymans terms, WHAT TESTS DO I STUDY FOR FIRST????????????

[Whirlygig]

It depends on the school so you need to ask them. Unless you have an exemption, you would need to enrol with a school before you start studying.

Some schools (I went to AFT) will allow you to study the subjects in whichever order you want and I split mine into three modules to make it easier on my study time.

Cheers

Whirls

[paco]

We do ours in a specific order to minimise repetition. They can be varied, but we'd prefer you not to.

Module 1 ATPL

HPL
POF
AGK
Instruments

Module 2
RNAV
Met
Air Law
Ops
Comms I & V

Module 3
FPM
FPP
M&B
Nav

The FW course will be similar

Phil

[tonge]

How accurate is the Bristol question bank compared to actual CAA questions??

[Whirlygig]

Very good. :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[Pandalet]

If you're studying the helicopter-specific questions (ie. not the transitional), the Bristol bank is mostly excellent. That said, when I last looked at it a year back, there were a number of incorrect questions on stuff that wasn't in the syllabus, so you need to know what you're supposed to know (if that makes sense).

[chopjock]

These question banks are all based around the ATPL questions I think. Does anyone know where all the best questions are for CPL(H) level? I would rather spend my time rehearsing all the relevant answers. :)

[Pandalet]

Don't Bristol have a CPL database as well? I'm sure there was a link there for one, but I've never tried it, as it wasn't relevant to me. Perhaps give one of the schools running a CPL(H) course (CAPT, Tiger?) a ring and see what they recommend?

[Whirlygig]

Bristol has CPL(H) questions. It's not that the questions are easier but that the CPL covers a narrower syllabus.

Cheers

Whirls

[Euro155]

Hi

Just in the early stages of converting my JAA ATPL to a Australian ATPL H, does anybody recommend a OZ school for my IREX and air law.

Thanks:ok:

[tonge]

I did the CPL(H) Air Law, Operational Procedures and VFR Comms today at Gatwick. Bar 3 or 4 questions on the Ops paper, I'd seen virtually all the other questions via the Bristol database. :ok:

[Pandalet]

Some answers:

I don't believe the interim system is available (in the UK) anymore - you have to do the heli-specific one if you want a CPL(H). Which is fine, as it's much better than the interim one anyway.

You can subscribe to the Bristol questionbank whether you're a student of theirs or not. Last I looked, it cost £50 for 3 months of access.

My recommendation would be CAPT for the groundschool, with a subscription to the Bristol QB for final brush-up before exams. This is the route I followed, and it worked amazingly well.

[flap flap flap]

Does anyone have some kind of "loss of license" insurance to cover you if you lost your medical? Obviously the ATPL/IR road isn't cheap so it'd be nice to have some safety net in case the worst happened, a safety so it can't become an investment completely lost.


http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/185729-insurance-life-loss-licence-sickness-etc-not-hull-insurance.html

[Whirlygig]

Loss of licence insurance usually just covers loss of earnings, not loss of costs in getting licence.

Cheers

Whirls

[Heli-Ice]

Hi Whirlygig

Does the LoL cover expected earnings?

[Whirlygig]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/Whirls/Doubtit.jpg

I would have thought that in the event of any claim, you would have to substantiate your previous earnings.

Cheers

Whirls

[400cuin]

Greetings.

I have a JAA CPL (h) for over ten years Need to go ATPL (h) with IR, who know which exams you need to do again and can you do your IR course prior to re doing the chuffing CAA written exams again :rolleyes:

[Bravo73]

which exams you need to do again

The 7 IR exams. If you sit them reasonably soon, then the combination of CPL & IR exams will be equivalent to the ATPL theory requirements. If you leave it too long, you will have to sit all 14 ATPL exams.

and can you do your IR course prior to re doing the chuffing CAA written exams again :rolleyes:

No.


HTH.

[paco]

Actually, with a JAA CPL(H) you are exempt Human Factors, so that's only 6. See our big blue ad somewhere on the right for details about theoretical knowledge courses

Phil

[sunnyhill]

I am distance learning with CAPT ,CPL(H) and they advised aviationexam.com for the online exams. I am having some difficulty with them ,as i know the answers ,but the way they ask the questions baffle me.Anybody else having the same problems or is that the way EASA works aswell. What about Bristol ,I read good things?
Your thoughts

[paco]

We only advise aviationexam if you are taking the exams anywhere other than UK - for the UK, Bristol is best, as their questions most closely match the UK database which has been modified as much as possible for logic! Of course, if you know the answers already :) it won't really matter!

If the way they ask the questions now baffles you, then watch out, because they are the actual questions you will see in the exams! It's the way JAA/EASA works, and I agree it is absolutely disgraceful, but we just have to live with it, for now, at least (come the revolution).


phil

[Pandalet]

I assume from your location that you're planning to sit the exams in the UK. Given that, I'd go straight for the Bristol DB. Note that there really isn't much need to start hammering questions until just before you write the exams (ie. you've finished studying the material and need to brush up for the exams).

I personally found aviationexam pretty poor, but this was over 18 months ago, so they may well have improved. The cost of a 3-month sub to Bristol is less than it'd cost to resit an exam - that makes it worthwhile in my book!

[pdoyle]

dont waste your money. do your cpl ground only its much easier. the atpl is only required if you want to move on to IR twin and you have to have your rating within 2 years of passing your ground exams. which means you first have to get a job as a cpl and log a 1000hrs before any insurance will stop laughing. this simply wont happen. The other option is spend another 40 000 on self fly hire.