Airbus vs Boeing (McDD)

[James4th]

Now I know this has been done before and it might be boring; but it is Sunday afternoon ...........

Given that I have flown quite a few thousand hours on the A320/321 and the 737 (both Classic and NG.) and being spurred on by a post on another thread; I would like to hear how people rate the two types and if anything has changed in those opinions over the last year.

Obviously only pilots who have flown both types really know which type is best but all you Boeingheads who have never been near a 'bus have a go (and I think that includes you 18-Wheeler!)

I also include the 717 as a Boeing but as we all know it is firmly from Mr Donnie Douglas' stable (God Bless Him!)

Have at it:}

[18-Wheeler]

Obviously only pilots who have flown both types really know which type is best but all you Boeingheads who have never been near a 'bus have a go (and I think that includes you 18-Wheeler!)

No.
Sorry, I think they're cheap rubbish.
This is based on the quality of the build, the longevity of the airframe, the long-term costs of running them, and the flight control laws.

[Keg]

Sorry, I think they're cheap rubbish.
This is based on the quality of the build, the longevity of the airframe, the long-term costs of running them, and the flight control laws.

Amen brother! :ok: :E

[pakeha-boy]

18 wheeler.....actually admire a man putting his nuts on the block and respect you stating your opinion.........my issue with your last statement concerning the Bus "Control" laws......explain to me your reasoning.....

Have been to both(several) of Boeings and Airbus assembly plants,and invited on several "test" flights that have included operating those aircraft out of their normal envelopes........have flown the Bus to the ground successfully in "Direct law" .(not pretty) emergency electrical etc etc(in the sim).....as with most aircraft,its all in the training.......

Your reasoning of costs to operate are flawed...I have seen data from both.....up and down like a lady of the nights drawers.....depends who and how they are operated.........like I said...have flown both....

If Boeing is your choice...stick with it....its obviously your '"comfort" zone....:\ PB

forgot to mention...flew the the F-28(1000/4000,s) for a couple of years and there will be many here who have....now theres a piece of work....loved it....PB

it was indeed a "focker"

[cunninglinguist]

Speaking of comfort, if you have to sit in a piece of hi speed aluminium tubing for 4+ hours, there is no competition, the 'bus wins hands down.

Flight control laws? near the ground is pretty much conventional, away from the ground won't let you kill yourself ( and all your pax )......can't be all bad, and a dream to handfly.

That said, never had more fun than in the Douglas B717 :p
Craps all over the bus apart from the above points.

[18-Wheeler]

I'm not going to participate in a A vs B slanging match, so this is my last post on the matter.
I have problems with the Airbus flight control laws simply because they have pre-determined how the aircraft is going to behave.
However, in the real world, strange things happen that the geeks sitting behind desks can never think of, and hence the software either cannot deal with or will not let you deal with.
In my old 747 Classic for example, some years ago we had some maintenance done just before departure. After liftoff there was a strong vibration in the airframe and to cut a long story very short it was found that the repair wasn't done properly and the inboard ground spoilers were standing straight up.
There's no procedure for that, we had to make up our recovery on the spot.
This is just an example, with my point being that ultimately ONE person has to decide how and what the aeroplane does, and that's the Captain, not someone safely sitting behind a desk.
If I have the need to over-G the plane to save it, I will.
If I have to run some non-standard configuration to deal with some strange problem, I will.

And yes I agree, I would rank MDD & Lockheed ahead of Boeing, then somewhat of a distance to ...... Airbus.

[cunninglinguist]

Wont argue with you 18, but it is the way of the future, for better or worse, even boeing going down that track now.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

...a dream to handfly.

Sucker. That's what it wants you to think you're doing! :E

http://www.aircrash.org/burnelli/images/a320b.gif

Give me good ol' fashioned stick and rudder any day. :ok:

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/Approaches/707_barrel_roll.jpg

[clear to land]

I am flying the 'computer' Boeing now - 777. It has envelope protection laws etc, but has still left the option that ULTIMATELY the PIC can override-ie if you NEED to over 'G' etc -YOU CAN. Even Direct mode is manually selectable, and handling is basically the same as Secondary mode, just a little less refined. Thus, in my opinion (one of thousands ,I know) Boeing is a superior product than the 'slowbus'. As an aside, consider how many elderly 73's you see around the world. I just don't expect to see many A32's when they are the same age.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Taking the piss out of airbus', while fun and worthwhile, is really pointless...the control 'laws' aren't the issue. What is the issue is the froggies designed an aeroplane that had to be 'different' to the Boeing product in all ways and no matter what...in so doing they also went against 60 years of conventions and that, in my opinion, is why they are not generally as well liked as Mr Boeings product...even the landing light switches work in the opposite sense...as with many other switches...it amazes me airbus pilots don't fly around with the landing lights on and land with them off:ugh: :E

But all said and done, airbus and airbus pilot stirring aside, Boeing just build better aeroplanes...period!!!

The current canning Tooloose are getting at the hands of Seattle attests to that fact.

Never flown one, hope fervently I never do...but have LOTS of mates who do and few, if any, have unqualified praise for Too-Loose's product.

It stuns me that the same aerospace industry that designed and builds Falcons, my all time favorite aeroplane and the only thing in current production that beats a Boeing, also builds the scarebus:confused:

I love the 767...it'll do me just fine until the promised 777s and 787s arrive over the next several years:ok:

[murgatroid]

This argument has been done to death sooo many times.

Let's start a real discussion: Holden v Ford!!!!

[murgatroid]

Two letters VE - end discussion!
http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/07/16/VE_SS_V_001_m.jpg

[18-Wheeler]

even the landing light switches work in the opposite sense...as with many other switches...it amazes me airbus pilots don't fly around with the landing lights on and land with them off:ugh: :E

You need to see more Boeings then - A lot of them have the switches going the 'wrong' way.
Half the 747's I fly have the switches going up for on, and vice-versa.

[pakeha-boy]

18 WHEELIES...when you fly,...do you wear googles,a leather cap and a white scarf also???..PB

[OpsNormal]

Two letters VE - end discussion!
http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/07/16/VE_SS_V_001_m.jpg

That's the "Fordiest" looking Holden I've ever seen...... :E :E :E :}

[podbreak]

This is a good discussion for pure entertainment :D

Though i'm a Boeing fan:

Fair chunk of generalised, unsubstantiated rubbish. Consider that both companies offer a variety of products, different in many ways. Quite often, depending on the particular customer requirements, the Boeing product is superior, and other cases the Airbus product. They both have had dud products.

Give me good ol' fashioned stick and rudder any day. I'm affraid even Boeing is moving away from this, because technology is moving forward....

Many people who speak with authority on this subject lack the appropriate knowledge of both products.

[Chimbu chuckles]

I'll get one of my mates who just transition from B717 (yes I know its really a McD) to A320 to add his two cents worth then...he aint a happy camper:ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Never flown Boeing but I do work in Easyjet, where the world's largest transition from Boeing to Airbus fleet is in full swing at the moment.

I've seen it time after time after time, there are plenty of grumpy old buggers with thousands of Boeing hours in this company who initially slag off at the Airbus and basically despise the thing for, ooohhh, at least 6 weeks after their conversion course, while they slowly learn all the tricks and get their heads round the MCDU and the ECAM and the laptop, get accustomed to having tray tables and foot rests instead of some control column, taking your headset off in the cruise, slowly they figure out that the thing has actually got equal or greater levels of safety redundancy than the Boeing, show them a few cool make-your-day-easier tricks with the MCDU, they pretty soon stop their grumbling.

I have yet to find a SINGLE captain who's been on the 'bus for a year or two who would ever want to go back on the Boeing.

[pakeha-boy]

Luke skytoddler....ditto mate,..ditto....CC....read and weep son,read and weep...

Merry xmas to all and all the best to you and yours for a safe New Year..

If Ive pissed you off this last year...no offence or malice intended....BUT!!!...it will probably happen next year.....Arohanui...PB

[haughtney1]

I have yet to find a SINGLE captain who's been on the 'bus for a year or two who would ever want to go back on the Boeing.

Blah blah blah...wait till the 787 rolls around:E (sorry Luke..you all right lah?)

Actually I think the 737NG/A319/20/21 comparison misses the point, they are totally different design concepts
(boeing..update a 40yr old design just enough to keep the type cert valid)
(Airboooos a clean sheet of paper....and not enough engine power:E )

My experience of the 320 is only in the sim, but I have to say I like the layout..and many of the knobs and widgets are quite intuitive..so no complaints..even though I'm a boeing boy.
Talk to an engineer on the other hand...and its a different story, they bloody hate the things! Poor build quality, under engineered structures, and cabin floors that need constant attention.

[Felix Saddler]

You all (well the majority) conclude that you dislike the airbus and prefer boeing. Would you prefer airbus if that was indeed an american company and boeing french?
Too be fair both do their job fairly well.

[pakeha-boy]

H1 ...would have to agree,the engineers think they are a piece of ****e,and regard them as total "job security"......since I dont have to work on them,I dont give a rats.......everything,s either ticketyboo and working,or I write it up and dont go,,,,,:= ......

I would agree that there are some MEL,s that I have real problems with .....some include the LGCIU,,s,and the packs.....anyway,.....if it pays,Ill fly it...PB

[tinpis]

I reckon Boeing could copy the side stick thingy and put in a tucker table .

Dont like planes that go "WTF was that" on yer .

['aveagoodknight]

I think they are totally different design concepts (the 737NG/A319/20/21)
(boeing..update a 40yr old design just enough to keep the type cert valid)
(Airboooos a clean sheet of paper....)

Hmmm, the 737NG probably has about as much in common with the 737-1/200 as the A320 has in common with the Dassault Mercure, (often rumoured to be what the A320 was designed from) which is also a 40 year old design.

I don't think it was a clean sheet of paper :p

'ave a good night!

[Bolty McBolt]

As an engineer I agree with "haughtney1" and "pakeha-boy".
The boeing product is better built but the BUSes are Job security for us engineering types.
Some of the MEL s on the bus create some interesting scenarios and ECAM messages accosiated with dead LGCIUs, EIVMUs Pacs etc would make you think the aircraft was AOG at first glance but the "clear" button and talking to the tech crew with a straight face seems to fix all that !

Merry Christmas

Bolty

[pakeha-boy]

Tin mate!! yup,if theres one thing to love about this piece of ****e.......its the tucker table!!!:ok: ........its heavenly to know traffic at 12 oclock,1000 below is a Boeing and hes got a big yoke to make love to...:ugh:

the "tucker table" will hold a 3 course meal and a biscuit chucker under 68 kilo.... tough to find these days,...easy fix of course ,is to place your overnight bag,upright underneath and the weight limitation goes up to 88kgs:ok:....... at the end of the day....its all worth it......

I just love my tucker table....makes your mouth water ay C.C:p :p ..PB

[Chimbu chuckles]

Having to balance my tray on my lap is a small price to pay for an aeroplane wot don't talk back...let alone hurl abuse (retard!!):ok: :D

[pakeha-boy]

CC...heheheheheheh thats good and choice!!!!.....now that I think about it,I get called a "retard" many times a day!!!:{ .........PB

[Cyclone Bob]

I know a QF engineer who reckons AB is screwed together better than a Boing.?? what would i know. Seems to me you either like flying something made by a mad french committee, or something similar nailed together by mexican refugees... Ford vs Holden Renault vs Chevy etc etc....

[distracted cockroach]

I've flown both the -100 and -300 versions of the 737, and despite the 20 year age difference between the ones I flew, they were still very similar aircraft. The nav systems were vastly improved in the -300, but they were still basically the same aircraft from a pilot's point of view.
In between the 2, I spent several years flying BAe146s. Dreadful aircraft compared to a Boeing, especially from a performance point of view BUT, a nicer place to spend the day with a roomy flight deck and nice big windows.
Now I've been flying the A320 for a year and a half, and it is the easiest jet I have ever flown. It took a bit of getting used to, but now I would never choose to go back to the 737. From a comfort point of view, there is no comparison, and at the end of the day, that is the important thing for me. If I have to spend 8 or more hours in the flight deck, give me an A320 any day.

[longjohn]

If I have to spend 8 or more hours in the flight deck, give me an A320 any day.

Amen.

The A320 kills the 737 for pilot comfort, and that is a big thing on long days. Otherwise I would prefer the boeing.

Above A320, give me a boeing any day.

[pakeha-boy]

[QUOTE=distracted cockroach;3026777]Now I've been flying the A320 for a year and a half, and it is the easiest jet I have ever flown.

......cockroach.....maaaaaaaaaaaaaate! and thats eggs-zackery what its all about I reackon.....go to work,....do as little as possible.....have fun....take home big fat paycheck$$$$$$ to the wahine......life is good indeed..PB

[haughtney1]

Now I've been flying the A320 for a year and a half, and it is the easiest jet I have ever flown

:}

Expect when you hit the TOGA tit, and the bloody thing keeps flying level:uhoh: :E

[pakeha-boy]

H1...Mate....little confused on that one...talk to me bro...wheres this t-i-t thing?.....like to get me ands on that.....

[haughtney1]

Tit=button=press for response :p ;) :8 :ooh: :}

[pakeha-boy]

H1...yeah ...good one mate......have always lived with the advice an old maori pilot gave me once.....

"eh pakeha-boy,you haff to be smarter than the equipment you are trying or planning to operate...........but for you,there is no hope"..........he was right:{ PB