SA Deputy-Pres's Gravy Plane [Archive]

Deanw

11th Jan 2006, 05:23

Found the English one...

Govt carries can for Phumzile
10/01/2006 22:52 - (SA)

Erika Gibson, Beeld

Pretoria - The government takes full responsibility for providing transport
and security to the president and deputy-president - irrespective of whether
they are on official or private trips.

This was the reaction on Tuesday of presidency spokesperson Murphy Morobe to
the trip deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka and her family took, which
cost taxpayers about R400 000.

Mlambo-Ngcuka, husband Bulelani and their children were on holiday from
December 27 to 31 in the United Arab Emirates.

An air force Falcon 900 jet, one of the VIP planes used for the government's
official trips, was used for transporting the group.

The operational cost of the flight is calculated at about R400 000.

Morobe said the requirements for transporting the president and deputy
president were determined on the basis of safety, cost and convenience.

"In this case, the deputy president was advised that the safety prerequisite
could best be provided by an air force plane," said Morobe.

Difficult to make a comparison

He added that these transport arrangements were part of the government's
practice - similar to the standard procedures that "are followed by many
governments throughout the world".

Dr Dirk Kotzé of the political science department at Unisa said it was
difficult to make such a comparison because few countries had a deputy
president, reports Liezel de Lange.

"Most have a president and a prime minister, and the latter is generally not
treated at the same level as a deputy president."

Most countries bear the transport costs of their head of state, such as when
President George Bush of the USA goes to Texas for a holiday. The USA also
has a vice-president who is treated similarly.

But, Kotzé pointed out that British Prime Minister Tony Blair seldom allowed
the government to pay for his holiday arrangements, and that he always flew
with the national airline.

In Kotzé's opinion, safety was a consideration in Mlambo-Ngcuka's holiday
arrangements, but "comfort" was not a convincing argument because she could
have flown business-class on a commercial airline.

"Purely from an ethical point of view, a distinction must be drawn between
private and official visits."

'Only for official flights'

Morobe said earlier that Mlambo-Ngcuka used the air force plane under the
provisions of the cabinet manual regarding transport allocated to her.

This manual on the ethical conduct of cabinet ministers states that air
force planes can be used only for official flights for the account of a
cabinet minister's department.

The prerequisites for such flights are that no commercial flights can give
the individual time for his official obligations, when the safety of the
individual requires it or when commercial flights are not cost-effective or
are not available.

Gunship

11th Jan 2006, 06:03

Kabinetslede mag lugmagvliegtuie nét vir amptelike vlugte vir die rekening van ’n kabinetslid se departement gebruik. Só lui die handleiding vir etiese gedrag van die kabinet.

Die voorvereistes vir sulke vlugte is dat daar nié kommersiële vlugte is wat die individu betyds tot by sy amptelike verpligtinge kan vervoer nie, wanneer die veiligheid van die individu dit vereis of wanneer kommersiële vlugte nie kostedoeltreffend of beskikbaar is nie.

Die regering aanvaar egter volle verantwoordelikheid vir die verskaffing van vervoer en veiligheid aan die president en adjunkpresident – ongeag of hulle op amptelike of private reise is.

Dít was gister die reaksie van mnr. Murphy Morobe, woordvoerder van die presidensie, op die reis van adj.pres. Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka en haar gesin wat belastingbetalers sowat R400 000 uit die sak gejaag het.

Mlambo-Ngcuka, haar man, Bulelani, en kinders was van 27 tot 31 Desember in Aboe Dhabi in die Verenigde Arabiese Emirate met vakansie. ’n Falcon 900-straler van die lugmag, een van die BBP-vliegtuie wat vir amptelike reise van die regering gebruik word, is gebruik om die groep te vervoer.

Die operasionele koste van die vlug word op sowat R400 000 gereken. Volgens Morobe word die vereistes vir die vervoer van die president en adjunkpresident op die grondslag van veiligheid, koste en gerief bepaal.

“In dié geval is die adjunkpresident geadviseer dat die voorvereiste van veiligheid die beste deur ’n weermagvliegtuig verskaf sou kon word,” het Morobe gesê.

Volgens hom is dié vervoerreëlings soortgelyk aan die standaardvoorskrifte wat “deur baie regerings regoor die wêreld gevolg word”.

Volgens dr. Dirk Kotzé van die departement politieke wetenskap aan Unisa is dit moeilik om só ’n vergelyking te tref omdat baie min lande ’n adjunkpresident het, berig Liezel de Lange.

“Die meeste het ’n president en premier, en laasgenoemde word oor die algemeen nie op dieselfde vlak as ’n adjunkpresident hanteer nie.”

Die meeste lande dra die vervoerkostes van hul staatshoof, soos wanneer pres. George W. Bush van die VSA Texas toe gaan vir vakansie. Die VSA het ook ’n visepresident wat op soortgelyke wyse hanteer word.

Kotzé wys egter daarop dat mnr. Tony Blair, die Britse premier, as staatshoof selde sy vakansiereëlings op staatskoste laat geskied en dat hy altyd met die nasionale lugdiens vlieg.

Wat Mlambo-Ngcuka se vakansiereëlings betref, meen Kotzé dat veiligheid ’n oorweging is, maar dat “gemak” nie ’n oortuigende argument is nie omdat sy besigheidsklas op ’n kommersiële lugdiens kon vlieg.

“Uit ’n suiwer etiese oogpunt moet daar ’n onderskeid getref word tussen private en amptelike besoeke.”

Morobe het vroeër gesê Mlambo-Ngcuka het die lugmagvliegtuig gebruik ingevolge die kabinetshandleiding se bepalings oor vervoer wat aan haar toegewys is.

http://www.news24.com/Die_Burger/Nuus/0,,4-75_1861090,00.html

Solid Rust Twotter

11th Jan 2006, 06:18

Problem being it's not the government carrying the can, it's the taxpayer.:*

As an aside, when last did anyone see a skinny politician in Africa (unless a slow puncture was involved), particularly a member of a ruling party. Snouts firmly wedged in the gravy trough....

MysticFlyer

11th Jan 2006, 07:03

From behind the Gravy curtain:yuk:

It's about the rest of the world's stupid passport control thing as soon as you disembark, anywhere outside Africa.

Matter of comfort, yes ask Winnie about Italian hospitality! Was the going to make money, or spend it in Italy? Seeing that the Italians picked the richest man in the country and made him the leader, they thought the money will be better distributed.

Luckily we have our very own foreign correspondant here on the pprune,

Riccardo.....report please!:p

MF

Afterburner: Did the taxpayers also cough up for the unscheduled flight from the states to the middle east around September 2001? Why all this fuss then?

Gunship

11th Jan 2006, 07:24

Well done ERIKA GIBSON for exposing this ... the more the better and hopefully the less it will become.

Wonder if Lucky was Dubed into a trip ? :E

Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's family "gravy plane" holiday in Abu Dhabi would have cost the taxpayer at least R700 000, Democratic Alliance MP Gareth Morgan said on Tuesday.

He was reacting to a report that she and her family flew to the United Arab Emirates for a five-day holiday at the end of December on the SA Air Force Falcon 900 jet reserved for VIPs.

He said that given President Thabo Mbeki's commitment to root out corruption, it was "simply outrageous" that this had happened.

"The deputy president's use of the plane in such circumstances appears to be a violation of the rules of use of VIP planes and it at best constitutes a gross misjudgement on her behalf and at worst a possible act of corruption," he said.

He said a judging from a previous Falcon flight to Egypt, for which expenses were known, the UAR trip would have cost R384 000 for fuel and R325 000 for operating costs, handling fees and catering.

Frivolous spending of this nature was an insult to millions of people in South Africa who continued to live in grinding poverty.

Responding to media queries, the presidency confirmed in a statement that the deputy president undertook "a private visit" to the UAR from December 27 to 31.

"It is part of the convention and practice in government for the state to take full responsibility for the provision of transport and security for the president and deputy president — as well as all associated costs — irrespective of whether they are on official or private travels," the statement said.

The actual type of transport was determined on the basis of security, cost and convenience.

In this instance, Mlambo-Ngcuka was advised that security would be best served by using SA National Defence Force transport.

Such arrangements were standard procedure for many governments.

Spokesperson for the presidency Murphy Morobe confirmed that members of the deputy president's family had been with her on the trip.

He said it was "part of her vacation time".

http://iafrica.com/news/sa/282021.htm

MysticFlyer

11th Jan 2006, 07:46

Frivolous spending of this nature.....an insult? Why? Perhaps that it's unfair? Perhaps that it's not "very" legal, perhaps that these members were democratically elected, by government, or the people they represent, the taxpayers and the rest.

Eisch, this deputy seat thing, methinks it's jinxed with attractive cheekên wings in a barrel. They should privatise the VIP airwing and recover the expenses by serving KFCheeckên onboard. PAP & SHEBA they can dish out for free!

Where did they stay, The Al-Bhuraq? (Off course I'm just green with envy!)
Look at Arnold, "hasta-la-vista, baby's", stiff upper-lip today, now that's what you get for paying the constituants lip-service......he, he!

I.R.PIRATE

11th Jan 2006, 07:50

Um, ja......anyone surprised?? At least we find out about this case, but as for the rest, best we never know I suppose.

Take that you tax paying types.........Lucky i dont live in SA....I only go there on holiday every six weeks.

I.R.becoming Afghan

AAL

11th Jan 2006, 11:25

It's a mind-set thing. Surely positive Saffers such as yourselves should not bemoan the lady her rich entitlements. Isnt this the kind of ecesses that Mystic Flyer has been lamenting on about for so long already? - before some pointed out that he merely has a bad attitude. Read the writing on the wall - never before has so few had much and somany so little.

Great improvement, and much to look forward to in the new SA.

TownshipDog

11th Jan 2006, 11:38

Lets see, R384000 drinking coupons worth of juice @ R4.69/litre (lanseria price for over border flights) = 81876.333 litres

Don't know much about the falcon but that sounds a bit heavy on gas...miskien is die ringe n bietjie klaar :E

someone tell those airforce boys that since we're paying for it they must fly 50 degrees lean of peak ;)

glimmerman_alpha

11th Jan 2006, 12:38

We did a trip for the goverment not so long ago into africa. Only 2 pax in the jet and they paid about R350 000!

You gotta love africa!:cool:

Gunship

11th Jan 2006, 23:35

Now the tax man has caught up with her ....

Deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngquka might have to fork out thousands for her family's holiday in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates.

Auditor Rudi van Zyl said this after the presidency acknowledged that the holiday flight in an air force VIP plane, was unofficial.

Van Zyl said that, in terms of the Income Tax Act, it was a taxable fringe benefit.

Van Zyl said section 8 of the Income Tax Act provided that government officials' travel allowances were exempt from tax - provided that it was undertaken for official purposes.

"As soon as travel becomes unofficial, but the employer still pays for it, the seventh schedule of the Act stipulates that it is no longer exempt from tax.

"This schedule also stipulates that the employer must recover in the same month (as the travel) the employee's tax (PAYE) from the public servant concerned, and pay it to the Receiver.

"Based on the deputy president's income, this tax amounts to 40% of the total expense, which - according to what's been learnt - would be about R400 000 in this case.

"So, the tax portion would be about R160 000."

Full Report : http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1861644,00.html

Solid Rust Twotter

12th Jan 2006, 03:17

Got a bridge to sell you if you believe anything like that is going to happen...:hmm:

When the dust settles it'll go under the carpet along with all the other freebies.:(

I.R.PIRATE

12th Jan 2006, 10:29

By Wendy Jasson da Costa

President Thabo Mbeki has been drawn into his deputy’s controversial private use of an SA Air Force Falcon 900 for an overseas holiday trip, with the Democratic Alliance calling for an investigation. Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka holidayed with her family in the United Arab Emirates between December 27 and 31.

The DA said the “shopping trip” had cost the taxpayer an estimated R700 000.

In a letter to Mbeki, DA spokesperson Gareth Morgan on Thursday wrote: “While it remains unclear whether SAAF aircraft are officially available for private trips by members of the executive, in the context of South Africa’s pressing development needs it would seem that expenditure of this nature is an unaffordable extravagance.”

'She doesn’t stop being deputy president when she is on holiday'
Morgan said the money spent on Mlambo-Ngcuka’s “gravy plane” could have been better spent on building houses and employing more policemen.

“I have therefore urged the president to launch a thorough investigation into this incident to determine whether there has been an abuse of taxpayers’ money. I have also urged the president to tighten up the regulations governing the use of SAAF jets so as to ensure that no member of the executive is allowed to use state resources for his or her own private purposes.”

Morgan said it was telling that a high-profile leader such as British Prime Minister Tony Blair used his country’s national carrier, and the state was not expected to pay for his holidays.

Earlier this week presidential spokesperson Murphy Morobe said: “It is part of the convention and practice in government for the state to take full responsibility for the provision of transport and security for the president and deputy president – as well as all associated costs – irrespective of whether they are on official or private travels.”

He said Mlambo-Ngcuka had been advised that the provision of her security would be best served through the use of SANDF transport. “She doesn’t stop being deputy president when she is on holiday. The associated risk is there all the time and therefore she will always be secured,” Morobe said.

I.R.PIRATE

12th Jan 2006, 10:33

I would just love to know who or what the so called 'risk' is. No one wants to hurt you Pumzile.

Unless youre afraid of 'those we do not speak of', I know they are out there, they want to hurt me too, unfortunately I cant afford your kind of security, so I think they will get to me first. Lucky you.

Straightjackets ahoy

iceweed

12th Jan 2006, 11:14

Ha, ha, ha... guys (and girls), the poor girl just wanted to see 'the worst place in the world to go shopping' for herself, and now all this hooha. I say she should be shot, along with all her staff who arranged this travesty. Make sure the government pays for the bullets, they can use any of the illegal firearms that they are so ably confiscating these days..

Viva my brothers, viva... (eisch, sorri my seesta, you too)

erikagibson

12th Jan 2006, 11:45

Hi Township Dog, I'm the journalist who wrote the stories about the 'sous-plane'. The amount is calculated as follows: the SAAF not only take the fuel into account, but also annual maintenance, services and the crew's salaries to determine a rate of between R20 000 - R24 000 per flying hour. It's 8 hours to Abu Dhabi and 8 back, therefore 16 times R24 000 which gives you R384 000. Landing fees, overflight costs and foreign allowances then also have to be added on. Ek dink die ringe is nog OK!! Erika

Gunship

12th Jan 2006, 11:48

Well done Erika ! :ok:

Solid Rust Twotter

12th Jan 2006, 11:51

Eh? Government investigating itself?

Yeah, riiiiight!:(

Gunship

12th Jan 2006, 12:28

Some serious back -peddling ... It was part work, part vacation, deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka said in her first reaction to criticism of her flying to the United Arab Emirates at taxpayers' expense on an apparent holiday, the SABC reported on Thursday.

Mlambo-Ncguka said even though she was on holiday, her trip was combined with work.

:p:p:p The deputy president said she went on a fact-finding mission in Dubai to study crane-building businesses in that country. :p:p:p

She said this was part of her mission to come up with programmes for South Africa's accelerated growth initiatives, aimed at seeing economic growth reach six per cent by 2010.

Full Story : http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1862026,00.html

TownshipDog

12th Jan 2006, 15:12

Die koste van só ’n vlug word volgens kenners op sowat R384 000 geraam, en dít net vir die brandstof.

Hi Erika, this is what you wrote in the article quoted in the begiining of this thread.. Some other papers and the DA are saying the cost was R700 000. Seems people are getting wires crossed... any clarification on what it actually cost us?

Beta Light

12th Jan 2006, 15:31

Hmmmm, Tannie Elize en die suider kruis tannies het ook maar lekker saam met ons op die 707 rond gevlieg, maar ten minste het hulle dit lekker laat klink. Vir ons seuns op die grens jy weet, terwyl Esme ( Everaad) vir hulle lekker troepie liedjies op 'n Sondag gespeel het.
Those were the days my friend!:cool:

Solid Rust Twotter

12th Jan 2006, 16:15

Can't see Otjiwarongo or Okonkolo being in the same class as Dubai for a holiday, somehow....:suspect:

ou Trek dronkie

12th Jan 2006, 17:33

:( O Mystifying one - he mystifies me anyway - Riccardo hasn’t replied, so maybe I can help ?

If I have got it right, according to La Repubblica and Corriere Della Sera today, the Italian president, Signor Burlesquoni, has just paid an amount of about €1800 which could get him off the hook for “tens of millions” of Euros due from ALLEGED* irregularities from the sale of the television rights of Mediaset, a huge Italian corporation. If it’s true, it would be another example of an Italian government passing a law which “legalises” past “errors”. It’s called condonation and is rife there. No surprise to learn the payment is disputed.

(Italian speakers, try this link : http://www.repubblica.it/2006/a/sezioni/economia/berlsana/berlsana/berlsana.html)

Remember also that the Italian President has publicly and repeatedly said he will not take advantage of Law 289 of 2002, which allows this. No prizes for guessing who passed that law … This again is the same gentleman who set the dubious precedent of becoming the first serving prime minister to appear at his own trial in Italian legal history. Now that is what I call style.

oTd:*

* Amazing that some Italians do not trust their politicos, ne ?

Beta Light

13th Jan 2006, 01:02

Solid Rust, only because we could not get clearance further North then Grooties.
There was an Argentina I remember!

Stealing is stealing my friend.

erikagibson

13th Jan 2006, 04:23

Me thinks the same. The DA adds operational costs of some R300 000 and then the R384 000, which I think is wrong as fuel is part of operational costs. I'm going on the info from SAAF sources, which is just below R400 000. I don't think any official will go on record about the real costs, just as we also probably won't know which crane builders she visited. According to my info the plane just passed through Dubai as port of entry to Abu Dhabi. There was a request for the plane to stand over for an additional few days in Dubai, but then this request was cancelled. According to the deputy the crane builders she visited though, were in Dubai....

Solid Rust Twotter

13th Jan 2006, 08:54

Agreed, Beta.

It just seems this lot don't care when caught. The old lot were as dishonest (They're politicians, after all.), but were probably better at hiding it and showed a bit of remorse when caught.

The day to day reality is something you possibly don't see living in Asia...

ou Trek dronkie

13th Jan 2006, 10:37

"The old lot were as dishonest (They're politicians, after all.), "

Quite right SRT, I remember seing a bunch of Nats arrive at a camp near Beit Bridge to go off shooting at a sort of a reserve right on the Zambesi border. All I can rememer is that it had a donkey/zebra animal which was a source of wonder at the time.

oTd

Deanw

13th Jan 2006, 14:26

From News24:

It's official: It was a holiday
13/01/2006

Cape Town - Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka went to the United Arab Emirates on holiday, her office said in a letter to news organisations, including I-Net Bridge, on Friday.
This follows a growing controversy in the media - and among opposition parties - about her December trip in a military aircraft paid for by the State.

The State broadcaster, the SABC had created the wrong impression, according to her adviser Kanyo Gqulu, that she had travelled to the UAE on a fact finding mission, that it had been half holiday and half business and that she was there to study crane-building businesses.

This was wrong, Gqulu said: "I would like to set the record straight by reiterating what was earlier stated in the media statements issued by the Presidency and (confirmed by the Deputy President in her interview) to the effect that Ms P Mlambo-Ngcuka went to the UAE on holiday.

"The actual modalities of transport are determined on the basis of security, in this instance the Deputy President was advised that the provision of security would be best served through the use of SANDF (South African National Defence Force) transport."

Security arrangements were determined in terms of the security manual and risk management system - both passed by cabinet.

He said: "In terms of these, their movement remains at all times a security matter and their physical security a permanent responsibility, rather than a benefit.

"The Presidency and the SA Police Service and the President and Deputy President do not themselves decide on the manner or modalities of movement.

Gqulu reiterated: "Contrary to yesterday's (January 12, 2006) and today's (January 13 2006) reports she did not travel to UAE on a fact-finding mission, nor did she go there on half business half holiday and she did not go there to study crane-building businesses."

He said further than in her interview with the State broadcaster - on Thursday, January 12 - "the Deputy President stated that she went to UAE on holiday but chose her destination based on the ongoing discussions she's been having with the Accelerated & Shared Growth Initiative -South Africa (ASGISA).

"In these deliberations it had become apparent that the UAE could offer opportunities to train South Africans in project management for infrastructure development. This skill is highly sort after in our country in the context of Accelerated & Shared Growth.

"In her interview with SABC the Deputy President referred to cranes only to make a point about the visibility and presence of cranes in the extraordinary infrastructure developmental work taking place in the UAE.

"All the visits and the meetings the Deputy President conducted, with the purpose of creating the framework and sourcing out training opportunities, were informal.

"I hope that by setting the record straight we have settled this matter once and for all."

Solid Rust Twotter

13th Jan 2006, 15:44

Which brings us to the matter of both the Dep Prez and her spokesman saying it was for work purposes with the holiday as an aside.

Porkies?:uhoh:

Gunship

13th Jan 2006, 19:57

Bulelani Ngcuka, former national director of public prosecutions and husband to the deputy president, has to explain their recent trip to the United Arab Emirates, the Democratic Alliance said on Friday.

In his weekly newsletter, DA leader Tony Leon said Ngcuka was the "master of an expanding property development empire".

"In December, he accompanied his wife, deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, on the now-infamous "gravy plane" to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) over the Christmas holiday," Leon wrote.

"In November 2005, Bulelani Ngcuka and his company, Amabubesi Investments, were part of a consortium that bought 52% of the shares in Basil Read, one of South Africa's largest construction companies."

Leon said Ngcuka had announced in September already that his company was planning to build a big shopping mall at Jeffrey's Bay in the Eastern Cape.

Ngcuka was earlier last year also appointed as chairperson of V&A Waterfront Holdings in Cape Town.

"That raises the question: whose interests was the deputy president representing when she went on her mission to learn about 'crane-building businesses'?"

Her explanation raised a number of questions, Leon said.

"Why was no announcement made - as is customary - prior to her departure, and no media release issued while she was in the UAE?

"Why was the trip only discovered after it was over? Was this a holiday disguised as a business trip, or a business trip disguised as a holiday?"

Leon said Mlambo-Ngcuka had sent the worst possible message to councillors and South Africans, instead of leading by example.

From NEWS 24 (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1862676,00.html)

Gunship

13th Jan 2006, 20:05

Adj.pres. Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka se kantoor het gister in ’n derde weergawe vandeesweek van presies hóé haar reis na Aboe Dhabi verloop het, ontken dat sy ’n werkvakansie onderneem het. Sy het vakansie gaan hou en basta.

Die vergaderings wat sy dáár gehou het, was “informeel”.

Mnr. Khanyo Gqulu, Mlambo-Ngcuka se raadgewer, sê in ’n brief aan koerantredakteurs beriggewing oor haar eerste persoonlike kommentaar oor die omstrede besoek het die “indruk gewek” dat sy op ’n feitesending na die Verenigde Arabiese Emirate (VAE) was. Die “indruk” het volgens Gqulu uit ’n onderhoud met SAUK-nuus ontstaan. Daarin meld Mlambo-Ngcuka dat hoewel sy met vakansie was, sy dit met werk gekombineer het.

Die Burger volle weergawe (http://www.news24.com/Die_Burger/Nuus/0,5824,4-75_1862874,00.html)

alwaysinverted

14th Jan 2006, 10:22

Politicians.

After first ducking & diving, she now, obviously due to pressure, admits it was a holiday. These :mad: politicians! Every time their lips move, they lie.

It's actually a shame the way the hout politicians carry on. No wonder Africa is so f:mad: up.

A fellow black colleague recently remarked:

a. They belong to a tribe
b. The tribe's got a culture
c. They're superstitious and believe in witchcraft
d. They don't understand westernised civilisation.
e. Prefers to visit a sangoma rather than a doctor when sick.

Maybe that explains why Jacob Zuma raped an HIV positive chick without any protection.

Maybe the Sangoma will tell him to go and rape a baby to "cleanse" himself once he finds himself infected.

Unbelievable! Mmmm, Africa at it's best!

ou Trek dronkie

14th Jan 2006, 11:58

I think you are looking for trouble my friend. This post is stupid, IMHO and dangerous.

Why not think again ?? Then pull it.

oTd

4HolerPoler

14th Jan 2006, 14:35

Agreed OTD but I'm going to leave it as another monument to the blinkered view of some of our members & in the hope that Mr. Inverted will change his tune. Given the authority of a mod, it is so easy to merely bin a contentious post, yet sometimes it is better to encourage constructive conversation than to hide an issue with which one disapproves or disagrees with.

4HP

maxrated

15th Jan 2006, 08:55

I think the parlimentary travell agent should be fired.

Going to the UAE for Christmas is like going to the Vatican for Ramadaan.

Ajax 28

15th Jan 2006, 14:29

Now that this abuse of the SAAF is out... What about Zuma's misuse of the SAAF?? Using the SAAF as a personel taxi service to his township in durban?? Hops on a falcon/BBJ to durbs, then onto an Oryx to his house... Sure his bill for all those trips is more than R384000...

MysticFlyer

16th Jan 2006, 10:10

Don't you just love the pprune? Marvelous?

Throwing bones.....bonesmen, the noose is tightening, it's pulled from VERY high up. Left unattended this is going somewhere at a rate of Mcrit!

Who am I defending? The people and the best interrest of SA, to start with....

Balletjies trap!

alwaysinverted

16th Jan 2006, 17:14

OTD, the SA constitution allows freedom of speech and expression. If you don't like it, too bad. I'm definately not a "gatkruiper". Never been , and never will. I served my country from 1975 to 1981, and understand exactly what politics are all about, having majored in political & social sciences.

Pprune is a rumour network and what I write, is exactly how I feel. The ruling politicians in SA have blown it big time for the last 11 years with regards to service delivery, housing etc. SA is not the same, believe you me.

People praise Trevor Manual for the great job he's doing as Finance minister, inflation is low etc, but what you must understand is the fact that Trevor is doing well due to circumstances. In the old "apartheid" regime, the GDP of SA was based on the revenue of 5 million whites. Now it's based on the income of 4 million whites that are over the age of 18, and 45 million blacks, coloreds and indians. That makes a BIG difference.

With regards to the Bull:mad: t of the Deputy President.... with respect.... she's blown it big time by being a liar, and I can assure you her credibility is hanging on a string.

Unfortunately, the majority of the people in SA are black, and they will always, due to their lack of ability and understanding of social affairs, vote for the ANC, with the result that the ANC will always remain in power.

Ten or maybe 20 years from now, SA could end up like Zimbabwe, and what is the rest of the world going to say then. Well Done Thabo & Co???

You must remember that Ronnie Kasrils, our "Intelligence Minister", commended Bob Mugabe and his cronies for f:mad: g up Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Sub Saharan Africa, and said that Bob needs to be commended for his achievements over the last 25 years.

Achievements????? What achievements????

Think about it my friend, and then let me know whether you think the ANC Government in SA needs to be commended.

One last word before I sign off! What amazes me though, is how many staunch white South Africans, once serious racists, have become "gatkruipers" for financial gain. Maybe you fit in there???? Who knows, but it ain't me bro!

Ciao Senor! I'll have a grappa on you!:ok:

Gunship

16th Jan 2006, 17:24

Quite right SRT, I remember seing a bunch of Nats arrive at a camp near Beit Bridge to go off shooting at a sort of a reserve right on the Zambesi border. All I can rememer is that it had a donkey/zebra animal which was a source of wonder at the time.
oTd

OTD .. I flew them there ... :E

Normally they would land at a nice new runway which was also used as a forward control airport (never in my time) ... but Danie Hough (administrator of the Tvl) had a farm right close by ...damn the dorp has slipped my mind ..about 100 k's south of Messina (same dorp as Dirkie Uys Misty )

Anyway .. a Falcon or two would bring them : PW , MM , Pik .. Bill Venter , big man with a lot of Nissan garages in Pta etc etc ..

4 Puma 's ... cops / recce's .. die hele toet and off they will go hunting.

Did it many times - I thought it to be ok .. I was just a Captain and we did not ask questions.

Even today I still think a spangees is fine but I sidder to think what the costs was ... :ooh:

Gunship

16th Jan 2006, 17:25

Going to the UAE for Christmas is like going to the Vatican for Ramadaan.
Oh maxi ... oh maxi .. :p :p :p

ou Trek dronkie

16th Jan 2006, 19:58

Listen man,
I am aware of everything you say and have thought (mostly) that way for many, many years. You cannot argue with facts.
No, look here, what I strongly objected to, sorry I was not specific, are the following :
“hout politicians” in my book, that is racist abuse. Try exercising your “Freedom of speech” with that phrase in another context and see what happens. Freedom of speech is a precious right and must be used responsibly, otherwise it devalues the currency.
“Jacob Zuma raped an HIV positive chick without any protection” I am sorry, I did not realise he has already been put on trial and found guilty. Are you absolutely sure about this ?
“Maybe the Sangoma will tell him to go and rape a baby to "cleanse" himself once he finds himself infected”
Yes, this sickening behaviour does happen, to the utter revolt of all decent minded people. Are you seriously suggesting any particular individual would do it ? That is what I call dangerous my friend.
If I have a contentious point or two to make, I try (not always succeeding) to keep the tone reasonably moderate, without writing reprehensible stuff which can be held against me (unless I am winding up).
And as for this : “ many staunch white South Africans, once serious racists, have become "gatkruipers" for financial gain. Maybe you fit in there????”
Bit of a cheap shot I’d say and a waste of ink. If you only knew, but it’s a wild accusation, rather like other things you have written, so I will not dignify it with a response.
I have never, ever commended the ANC government, far from it. In fact, commending governments would be a new departure for me anyway. Check my recent post on Signor Burlesquoni. But if I did, I believe people reading my rants would be more impressed by temperate language than unfounded racial abuse.
Hope you can see my point of view ?
Anyway, mi piace anche tantissimo il grappa - you can't be too bad a bloke if you like it too ! Salute !!!:) :) :)
oTd

ou Trek dronkie

16th Jan 2006, 20:04

Guns,

Normally they would land at a nice new runway which was also used as a forward control airport (never in my time) ... but Danie Hough (administrator of the Tvl) had a farm right close by ...damn the dorp has slipped my mind ..about 100 k's south of Messina (same dorp as Dirkie Uys Misty )

tWell, he runway where I was was Messina self. It was with a bit of a Mickey Mouse outfit at the time. Pik was definitely one of the ous. I remember him walking past me, totally ignoring my magnificent salute. Die donner.:(

There was another place to the south of Messina, just off the main road, it was a Broederbond hang-out. Maybe that was the one ? At Mesina, we had some big stuff coming in and plenty Imps. Lots of fun.

Lang verlede ...

oTd

MysticFlyer

16th Jan 2006, 20:57

Guns, jammer, maar akkerige vergelyking, aangesien die platbomme maar wyd gesaai was in PW se tyd. Hy's geen hero van my ook nie! Onthou daar was onluste en dan was ons ook nog in oorlog gewees, redelike groot verkil.

Inkopies doen vir altwee groepe met staatsvoertuie is uit, tensy jy dit takties kon doen, maar sy FI sê, was daardie ene nogal ongeleë veral nou! Dis asof dit nou 'n oes tydperk is, maar sommer blatant! Ons almal weet hulle wil hulle self verryk, maar moenie in die proses voorgee almal is ape nie. Almal, insluitende die hele bevolking, dink ek was rdelik tolerant. Ek persoonlik is teen geweld, maar is bevrees dat jy nou swaar polariteit gaan kry, tot nadeel van minderhede groepe.

Die minderheid is verryk, en die meerderheid lyk my het ook nou mooi genoeg. Daar is baie plaaslike betogings en die regering wil dit nie erken dat daar burgeroorlog onder hulle eie etniese groep is nie. Ontkennings fase tans, maar die lont het hulle al bewys, is baie kort!:ugh:

Afrika het nog nooit sag met hulle eie gespeel nie, en die wêreld raak al hoe kleiner. Al die geld, maar waar sal ons dit dan spandeer?

oTd, wat was daardie van jou? Gaan jy jou voet ooit weer daar uitkry? Kom ons speel die bal, jammer jy het aangespreek gevoel.

Ek glo ons moet altwee die ekstreme ontlont. Ons het lankal bewys dit was nie die boere wat rasisties was nie, daai plooi het lankal al mooi platgeval. Die kroon sal moet introspeksie hou, orals het hulle pap op die vloer.

Stamp korrupsie uit! Gee die mense weer ware bekwame leiers, dan sal SA weer vooruit hardloop. Dink net al die mense weer terug, bly om terug te wees! Alhoewel met bietjie minder moela a.g.v. die "Sterk" rand......

4HolerPoler

17th Jan 2006, 01:08

Guys, a gentle reminder that this forum is English medium - please feel free to post other language news articles (if possible with an English translation) but then please continue the discussion in English.

Of course anything goes at the Campfire. Thanks for understanding.

4HP

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 03:50

Guns,
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][I][COLOR="Red"]There was another place to the south of Messina, just off the main road, it was a Broederbond hang-out. Maybe that was the one ? At Mesina, we had some big stuff coming in and plenty Imps. Lots of fun.
oTd

Alldays .. sweet Alldays .. went hunting there after I was well known by the Alldays hotel cronies during the PW / magnus and Pik days and of course Oh Vlok ...

Anyway came back with my hunting party .. 2 land Cruiser bakkies and about 6 hunters and 2 "helping hands" .

This was about 1995 now but the new SA has not struck at Alldays hotel .. my helper was asked to leave the breakfast table .. so we all left - never to return again.

Last time I went through there was in 99 and things have changed for the better - new hotel owner of course :E

MysticFlyer

17th Jan 2006, 04:27

Guns, agree! There is no more room for racial bias, from both sides! Guess what? Everyone is capable of operating within a corrupt free society, believe me. Then one quickly loses colour and are just a fellow citizen and government officials, officials again, and not empire managers.

Respect will then be EARNED!

MysticFlyer

17th Jan 2006, 04:30

4HP, apologies, tried to rectify by editing, but my posting ability, now that's even mystifying me! Something I said?

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 04:30

A crisis meeting was held at the highest level on Monday afternoon to try to limit the harm done to the government's image - at home and abroad - by deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's visit to the United Arab Emirates.

It was learnt that she and the head of communications in the presidency, Murphy Morobe, met to draw up a strategy to put an end to the perception that things were being covered up.

A comprehensive announcement, placing all the presidency's cards on the table was envisaged, perhaps as early as Tuesday.

This follows questions from the Democratic Alliance about whether Social Development Minister Zola Skweyiya or his wife, Thuthu Mazibuko, accompanied the deputy president on the trip.

Skweyiya's spokesperson, Lakela Kaunda, denied that he was on the flight, but said nothing about his wife.

DA MP Gareth Morgan will ask questions in parliament to try to establish whether any cabinet ministers accompanied Mlambo-Ngquka.

DA intends testing rumour

In answer to an enquiry, Kaunda sent an SMS stating: "Minister Skweyiya did not go with the deputy president to Dubai."

She did not respond to enquiries about the minister's wife.

Morgan said that although the source of the rumour was uncertain, the DA considered it essential to test it.

"Given the number of versions of the events concerning Mlambo-Ngcuka's trip that have already come from the presidency, the DA is not prepared to let the matter rest there.

"We'll raise a question in parliament about it," he said.

Morgan said the absence of a cabinet minister scarcely explained why the presidency has given so many versions of the events.

"If a minister or the spouse of a minister did go with the deputy president to the Emirates, it would be a contravention of the manual for cabinet members.

"The guidelines in the manual state that cabinet ministers are entitled to travel business-class at government expense, if it is for official reasons," said Morgan.

Must declare all favours

He said that the presidency, once and for all, should put all its cards on the table and set out the purpose as well as the precise course of the trip - especially given the African National Congress's previous dubious attempts at fund-raising.

Morgan also pointed out that any member of parliament, cabinet minister and even the deputy president had to declare any favours or concessions they received concerning private accommodation in the register of members' interests.

This follows allegations that the Ngcuka family may have been hosted by a Dubai royal.

News 24 full article (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1864224,00.html)

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 04:33

Social Development Minister Zola Skweyiya did not accompany Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka on a trip to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) late last year, the minister's office said on Monday.

Reacting to a statement by the Democratic Alliance, which claimed it had information suggesting Skweyiya had been on the controversial flight, the minister's spokesperson, Lakela Kaunda, said: "It is incorrect. He did not go on that trip at all."

Earlier on Monday the DA's Gareth Morgan said his party had "uncorroborated information" that Skweyiya and his wife had accompanied the deputy president to the UAE.

He said this was supported by reports suggesting Mlambo-Ngcuka and her entourage "were hosted in a palace by a member of the UAE royal family".

Full report on IOL here (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1137435661298B224)

MysticFlyer

17th Jan 2006, 04:45

I'm sure someone on PPrune can assist the DA investigation....probe, test. They too are a puppet party...seems the stay was better than the Six star venue...nothing to do with fairness???!!!

The poor in the townships are rumbling....BRING NELSON BACK! I'm sure this was never in his personal game plan, nor would've allowed it.

Solid Rust Twotter

17th Jan 2006, 05:11

Looking at the SA govt, it's a pretty incestuous place with family and friends of the chosen sharing all the top jobs.

Guess the sh#t remains the same, then. Only the flies have changed....:( :yuk:

Though I don't recall many wives having ministerial posts along with their husbands in the old days. No shortage of cousins and brothers in law, though..:yuk:

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 06:24

Give credit where it is due : ERIKA GIBSON you have the Goverment in turmoil dear lady ... :E

ALL the major SA news web sites has some sort of article on their front pages - a clear indication of the impact that this has.

IOL / NEWS 24 / Bus Rep / iAfrica / Bus Day / and of course DIE BURGER where it all started :ok:

Well done - Maybe Mt Everest is too small to climb for you :E

’n Krisisvergadering is gistermiddag op die hoogste vlak gehou om die skade te probeer beperk wat die onthullings oor adj.pres. Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka se besoek aan die Verenigde Arabiese Emirate (VAE) aan die regering se beeld aanrig – binnelands én internasionaal.

Na wat Die Burger verneem, het sy gister met mnr. Murphy Morobe, hoof van kommunikasie in die presidensie, vergader om ’n strategie te bespreek sodat die persepsie dat die gebeure toegesmeer word, einde kan kry.

’n Omvattende aankondiging waarin die presidensie oop kaarte speel, word vir die nabye toekoms voorsien, dalk nog vandag.

Volle Berig uit die burger (http://www.news24.com/Die_Burger/Nuus/0,,4-75_1864120,00.html)

MysticFlyer

17th Jan 2006, 06:36

Good work! You too Guns, thanks on behalf of the whole of SA. Funny how the truth always seeks the light?

How open will the cards be, right into the bratha's sipping cognac and smoking cigar's in Braamfontein and beyond....see that Bush feels that the freemason Jackson's dream has not been realized yet. Well had he said that without membership to that bunch....ever, it may have been somthing completely different.

The relevance here...check the free media....."on our wings and a prayer", hello Beechjet!

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 12:35

This is a never - ending story .. and it get's better the more they open their mouths :p

The Emir of the United Arab Emirates hosted South Africa deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka during her recent holiday to his country at a guest house, the South African presidency spokesperson Murphy Morobe said on Wednesday.

There were, however, no "government-to-government" discussions as the deputy president was on holiday at the time.

Morobe, addressing a press conference at the Union Buildings in Pretoria but beamed to Cape Town, told I-Net Bridge that Mlambo-Ngcuka's husband, former politician and former National Director of Public Prosecutions boss Bulelani Ngcuka attended purely as "the spouse" on holiday with his wife and two children. No business transactions were discussed during this trip.

Morobe confirmed that welfare minister Zola Skweyiya's wife Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya had been on board the flight to Abu Dhabi. Also on board were two children of the deputy president's personal assistant.

While it is not clear why the personal assistant took another flight, Morobe said she was part of the delegation to the UAE. He could not confirm the costs involved for the trip but he emphasized that the deputy president had not broken the law and there had been "no intent on wrongdoing".

Her trip was signed away by the director general in the presidency, Frank Chikane.

"The process of costing (the trip) takes some while," he said. The opposition has estimated that the trip cost in the region of R700 000 including about R400 000 for the flight on a South African Air Force Falcon. The ultimate costs would "become part of public knowledge", he said.

Both the official opposition Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus have said they would ask the Public Protector to investigate whether the deputy president broke any laws or regulations applying to her office. The DA specifically asked for a probe into the activities of the deputy president's spouse during the trip.

Project management

The duration of the trip was from December 27 to December 31. Morobe said that Mazibuko-Skweyiya had been taken along not only because she was a friend but also because of her skills in project management with particular focus on the empowerment of women.

Responding to criticism that a friend had apparently been taken on a holiday joyride, Morobe said in fact it should be commendable that "instead of just lying in the sun", the deputy president had chosen to visit development projects.

Mazibuko Skweyiya had been chosen because of her expertise. This was within the rules of the travel of the deputy president, he said.

Referring to her stay in the UAE, Morobe noted that the costs of accommodation and travel - which would normally be for the account of the deputy president - were paid for by the UAE. He also said that the required security and medical detail of the deputy president had also been on the trip.

News 24 (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,6119,2-7-1442_1864574,00.html)

ou Trek dronkie

17th Jan 2006, 13:01

Ja boet, my dictionary defines a mystic as :
"sacredly obscure or secret …involving ...a secret meaning hidden from the eyes of the ordinary person... only revealed to a spiritually enlightened mind”:confused:
It’s difficult enough for me in English, but in Afrikaans, het ek g’n kans man, not being at all enlightened (herstigte ?):D :D :D
Still, yours are very enjoyable posts, I think.
oTd
:ok: :ok: :ok:

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 15:06

Phumzile 'did not abuse power'
17/01/2006 15:49 - (SA)

Pretoria - Presidential spokesperson Murphy Morobe has rejected assertions that the deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's trip to the United Arab Emirates amounted to an abuse of power.

"It is preposterous to say that she abused her power. It can't be considered an abuse that she took a friend on the trip to find out about projects she was interested in."

Morobe, addressing a press conference at the Union Buildings in Pretoria but beamed to Cape Town, confirmed that welfare minister Zola Skweyiya's wife Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya had been on board the flight to Abu Dhabi.

Morobe said Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya went along because she was voluntarily involved in growth initiatives in South Africa.

He said the deputy president had decided to use her state-funded trip to learn from the growth and women empowerment projects of the UAE.

Mlambo-Ngcuka regarded Mazibuko-Skweyiya as "the right person" to take along, Morobe told reporters in Pretoria.

Mlambo-Ngcuka also took along her husband Bulelani, their two children, and a personal assistant who travelled separately. The assistant's two children travelled with Mlambo-Ngcuka.

Morobe said: "It needs to be said that in no respects did the deputy president - although she did not take the decision regarding the modalities of travel to Abu Dhabi - infringe any law, regulation, or policy prescript."

As with all trips by the president and his deputy the state had paid for the provision of transport, security and associated costs, irrespective of whether they were on official or private travel.

Morobe said the emir of the UAE had paid for Mlambo-Ngcuka and her party's accommodation, transport and incidental costs.

The back-peddaling continues ...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

News 24.com (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1864585,00.html)

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 15:25

Sorry for the cut and paste's but seeing that this issue has created a stir - let's keep the newspaper clips up to date :E

The presidency's explanation for Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's taxpayer-funded holiday trip to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) last month was questioned by opposition political parties on Tuesday.

Pieter Mulder of the Freedom Front Plus said Public Protector Lawrence Mushwana should probe the link between Mlambo-Ngcuka and Mazibuko-Skweyiya, who has been mentioned in newspaper reports about the "Oilgate" scandal with the deputy president's brother, Bonga Mlambo.

"That the two would be travelling together in specifically that part of the world does seem rather odd," he said. "The public protector needs to consider whether this is really all that innocent."

According to the Democratic Alliance, the "ongoing saga" demonstrated that the leadership of the ruling ANC was out of touch with the public.

"(It) simply does not understand the revulsion which ordinary South Africans feel when they hear about massive extravagance of this kind."

It also questioned why different explanations had been given for Mlambo-Ngcuka's trip.

"First it was a holiday, then it was a business trip, then it was a holiday again, and now it is a fact-finding mission. Get real! What will it be tomorrow?"

Two questions remained unanswered about the trip, said Independent Democrats leader Patricia de Lille. What came first: holiday or government business?

"Did she (Mlambo-Ngcuka) book the holiday before she made arrangements for work in the UAE?"

The ID furthermore failed to understand how the Deputy President could justify taking along other people on a non-work trip at taxpayers' expense.

IOL (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=iol1137512599650M451)

Gunship

17th Jan 2006, 15:37

Just part of the report : Mlambo-Ngcuka's holiday could prompt policy change
January 17, 2006, 16:45

Murphy Morobe, the presidency spokesperson, has acknowledged that the current controversy surrounding Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, the deputy president, could prompt policy change on travel arrangement for the presidency.

The Presidency has confirmed that Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya, the social development minister's wife accompanied Mlambo-Ngcuka on her trip to the United Arab Emirates late last year. It says other passengers on board the SA Air Force Falcon jet were Mlambo-Ngcuka's husband Bulelani Ngcuka, their two children and two other children belonging to the deputy president's personal assistant.

Full Report HERE ! (http://www.sabcnews.co.za/politics/the_parties/0,2172,119758,00.html)

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 05:01

I think it is a cause to resign .. :rolleyes:

GOVERNMENT scrambled yesterday to extricate scandal-prone Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka from the public relations nightmare of her Arabian trip last month, as the deputy president conceded for the first time that she had “messed up”.

With the threat of another probe by the public protector looming, and as details of the controversial R500000 taxpayer-funded trip steadily emerged in the media, Mlambo-Ngcuka said: “The way I have messed things up this week I really don’t want to say anything anymore. There’s really true meaning to the statement that everything you say will be used against you.”

She was speaking at a youth development conference yesterday, shortly before her security detail prevented reporters from asking her about her holiday.

Yesterday, amid ongoing speculation about who had been on the trip with her, presidential spokesman Murphy Morobe confirmed that Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya, wife of Social Development Minister Zola Skweyiya, did in fact accompany the deputy president to Dubai.

Morobe, however, made it clear that Skweyiya and African National Congress (ANC)-linked businessman Saki Macozoma had not gone along.

He told reporters that Mlambo-Ngcuka wanted to use her holiday to “learn about the empowerment of women” in large infrastructure projects.

“It was in this context that she invited a friend, Miss Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya, to accompany her. Miss Mazibuko-Skweyiya is contributing on a voluntary basis to the development of a programme for the development of project management skills for infrastructure projects with a particular focus on the empowerment of women.”

Morobe also insisted that Mlambo-Ngcuka had not infringed “any law, regulation or policy prescript”.

However, opposition parties dismissed the official explanation for Mazibuko-Skweyiya’s presence as “laughable”.

The Democratic Alliance (DA) and the Freedom Front Plus called for Public Protector Lawrence Mushwana to investigate whether Mlambo-Ngcuka had abused her office by taking a personal friend on her state-funded excursion.

In separate letters written to Mushwana yesterday, both insisted that Mlambo-Ngcuka had contravened the Executive Members’ Ethics Act.

This is the second time the two parties have called on Mushwana to probe Mlambo-Ngcuka’s behaviour since she assumed office last year. She was cleared of wrongdoing after it emerged that oil businessman and ANC benefactor Sandi Majali gave money to her brother, Bonga Mlambo, and Mazibuko-Skweyiya.

If the latest call for a probe is successful, it will be the third time Mlambo-Ngcuka is investigated by the public protector’s office, following a 2002 probe by Mushwana’s predecessor, Selby Baqwa, into her heavily discounted purchase of a diamond tiara while she was minerals and energy minister.

Analysts said the latest storm around Mlambo-Ngcuka sent mixed messages to the public about government’s willingness to build a culture of accountability and transparency.

“It is clear that a substantial section of the public believes what she did was undermining good governance, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of this particular case. This suggests the presidency will have to reformulate the guidelines in an appropriate manner,” said Paul Graham of policy think-tank Idasa.

The South African Communist Party said it was “disturbed” by Mlambo-Ngcuka’s trip: “The fact that the deputy president was accompanied by individuals with private business interests may raise concerns and public perceptions about possible abuse of state resources to further private accumulation interests.”

I messed up, Phumzile says, as truth emerges from BUSSINESS DAY (http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A140172)

Solid Rust Twotter

18th Jan 2006, 05:28

Second Deputy Prez in six months if she goes. Can't see that happening, though. Snout too firmly stuck in the gravy trough. It'll take a major court case at taxpayer's expense again to enforce this so-called accountability that gets touted every time the fingers are slammed in the drawer of the till.:* :yuk:

Politicians...!:yuk:

Gunship

18th Jan 2006, 06:07

Well Rusty with the coming elections hopefuly some people will catch a wake up call and see the light in another ruling party.

But we both know - that will not happen (sadly) Aubrey Mashqi, an independent political analyst, says the controversy surrounding the trip of Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, the deputy president, to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) has presented
"manna from heaven" to the opposition, as it came in the midst of an election campaign.

Mashiqi says the issue also presented a political and public relations disaster because the presidency failed to coordinate their communication strategies. "They failed to ensure that communication came from a single point, and since it came from too many points, contradiction set in," he said. The analyst says this was because the presidency did not anticipate that the issue would end up in the public domain.

When asked exactly how much was spent on the deputy president's trip, Murphy Morobe, a spokesperson in the presidency, said: "I don't have the actual cost of the trip, but I am sure that trip like this costs a reasonable amount of money."

Out of the reported 12, only seven people have so far been identified as passengers in the plane used to transport the deputy president. Morobe refused to reveal the identity of the remaining five saying it would compromise the security of the deputy president.

Morobe disclosed yesterday that Mlambo-Ngcuka's husband, as well as the wife of Zola Skweyiya, the social welfare minister, were among the sizeable party accompanying her to the UAE.

SABC NEWS (http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/general/0,2172,119793,00.html)

Solid Rust Twotter

18th Jan 2006, 06:42

...with the coming elections hopefuly some people will catch a wake up call and see the light in another ruling party.
But we both know - that will not happen (sadly)

Unfortunately the SA public will continue to shoot themselves in the foot by voting along tribal and ethnic lines.:ugh:

When the ruling party is voted in by a narrow margin and know they have to perform to stay in power, things may begin to come right in SA. Unfortunately, the voter demographics are such that this is an impossibility. It's a case of "You can't vote us out so your charges of corruption are meaningless.".

Nothing's changed, folks...:(

MysticFlyer

18th Jan 2006, 09:52

Well, if she has personally stated that she stuffed-up, the people could of course demand on the basis of the freedom of information act, who the rest of the party was on board the plane, not true?

In light hereof, now they recommend a policy-change? What?

Empowering of women? She has been empowered by the majority rule government, to work towards a stable positive economic growth for the WHOLE country. In return she abused it! (and her fellow pax, who is not willing to stand up and admit their part too!) Too many cowards. Yes, it may influence her safety, because jails isn't what they used to be.....thanks to?

The main brain is excercising the 5th I notice.....

Globetwotter

18th Jan 2006, 10:36

Appanently she even treated the aircrew like crap on the soustrein holiday. Nice one for affemetiev ektion eh?

Gunship

19th Jan 2006, 05:12

Appanently she even treated the aircrew like crap on the soustrein holiday. Nice one for affemetiev ektion eh?

So Dube did not get Lucky did he :E

If deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka wasn't so fussy about an "ordinary" seat in business class to Abu Dhabi, she could have saved the taxpayer R530 000.

Full Story (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1865420,00.html)

Gunship

19th Jan 2006, 05:16

He is as guttless as Graham Smith ... :ugh: President Thabo Mbeki has quipped - after dogged attempts to get him to comment on the row about his deputy's R700 000 trip to the United Arab Emirates - that he will continue his visits to foreign climes - "on a bicycle if needs be".

Full Story on IOL here : (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060119065558922C424732)

MysticFlyer

19th Jan 2006, 07:25

Funny how he then always blame the parties working "against" the fine efforts in this country to move forward in the major changes made since the change away from the apartheid regime.

Maybe, what they want is exactly the same as all the people in the country from their elect government, accountability and fairness. It is a democracy afterall, insn't it?

If governed upon these real principles, this would've been a shut case, but this is only a rumour network afterall....

Viva pprune, viva!
(Will the administrator kindly....contact me, for transfer details...:p )

Solid Rust Twotter

19th Jan 2006, 08:20

Third time she's been involved in this kind of investigation in four years.

Something is rotten in the state of South Africa...:E

Gunship

21st Jan 2006, 05:51

Well then this is the 4th time .... she just done it again last week !

Go Erika :E

Erika Gibson, Beeld

Pretoria - Deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka this week apparently again put her foot in it - by making use of another potentially controversial flight - this time to Sun City.

This time it was the charter of an intercontinental jet to fly her and her company for 13 minutes to Sun City.

As far as could be ascertained the cost of the return flight amounted to approximately R75 000.

Mlambo-Ngcuka on Wednesday morning officially opened the Women's World Cup golf tournament at Sun City.

Aviation circles 'buzzing'

Aviation circles were abuzz on Friday to know the reasons for using a jet that is normally used for flights from South Africa to Europe or the USA for such an insignificant hop.

According to aviation experts there are several other options for less than half of the estimated R75 000 which would have delivered her to her destination a few minutes later.

The Gulfstream is one of the aircraft utilised by the Air Force when one of their own aircraft is not available for an intercontinental excursion.

This jet, which flies most economically on long distance intercontinental flights at a height of 35 000ft, would not even have attained a height of 12 000ft on the flight to Sun City before it would have had to descend again.

One aviation expert was of the opinion that other aircraft probably did not have enough seats for her party.

It was understood that the Falcon was not available as Mbeki is in Sudan at present for the African Union meeting, requiring the use of his business jet.

The Air Force has a contract for outsourcing VIP flights and will, depending on the urgency of requests for air transport by the various government departments, charter aircraft for the account of the departments.

The contractor will then be responsible to charter a suitable aircraft for the purpose of the excursion.

Apparently Jacob Zuma, former deputy president, regularly made use of two cheaper aircraft when he had official engagements or when he flew to KwaZulu-Natal for weekends.

It is normal that an aircraft is chartered for a minimum block of a specific number of hours, even if the full time schedule is not utilised.

Meanwhile the Air Force is trying to establish how the information about Mlambo-Ngcuka's outing to Abu Dhabi was leaked. Sam Mkhwanazi, spokesperson for the defence ministry, said there was no official investigation.

Personnel at the command post of Air Force headquarters in Pretoria, as well as those of 21 Squadron, the VIP squadron at Waterkloof air force base, have already been questioned.

Mkhwanazi said it had to be accepted that any organisation had to function in terms of certain rules and regulations.

"Some information is confidential, some secret.

"Any person divulging such information about the Air Force to the media or any other person is in breach of the law and can be prosecuted."

At our deadline he was still awaiting information regarding the Sun City flight from the Air Force.

News 24 Link (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1866902,00.html)

Gunship

21st Jan 2006, 05:53

Hier is die Afrikaanse weergawe ...

PRETORIA. – Adj.pres. Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka het haar vandeesweek waarskynlik onwetend op nóg ’n potensieel omstrede vlug begewe.

Dié keer was dit ’n interkontinentale straler wat gehuur is om haar en haar geselskap vir ’n vlug van 13 minute na Sun City te vervoer. Die onkoste was, sover vasgestel kan word, sowat R75 000 vir die retoervlug.

Mlambo-Ngcuka het die Wêreldbeker-gholftoernooi vir vroue Woensdagaand geopen.

Dit het gister in die lugvaartgemeenskap gegons oor die redes waarom ’n straler wat normaalweg op vlugte van Suid-Afrika na Europa of Amerika gebruik word, vir dié kort vlug gebruik is.

Volgens lugvaartkenners is daar verskeie ander moontlikhede beskikbaar wat haar en haar gevolg vir heelwat minder as die helfte van R75 000 in dieselfde tyd of ’n paar minute later by haar bestemming sou besorg.

Die Gulfstream V is juis een van die stralers wat deur die lugmag vir interkontinentale vlugte gebruik word wanneer sy eie vliegtuie nie beskikbaar is nie. Dié straler, wat op ’n normale langafstandvlug op ’n hoogte van 35 000 vt op sy mees ekonomiese sou wees, het waarskynlik nie eens ’n hoogte van 12 000 vt gehaal op die vlug Sun City toe voordat dit al weer moes begin daal het nie.

Een lugvaartkenner het gesê die ander vliegtuie het waarskynlik te min plek gehad vir die getal mense wat haar vergesel het.

’n Cessna Citation-straler (teen sowat R35 000 vir ’n soortgelyke vlug) of ’n King Air-turbineskroefvliegtuig (teen sowat R30 000) kan ses mense vervoer, terwyl die Gulfstream 10 tot 12 kan vervoer. Laasgenoemde is omtrent net so groot soos die Falcon 900 – oftewel die lugmag se nommer twee straler naas dié wat pres. Thabo Mbeki gewoonlik gebruik – waarmee Mlambo-Ngcuka in Desember op haar omstrede vakansievlug na Aboe Dhabi in die Verenigde Arabiese Emirate (VAE) toe was.

Na verneem word, was die Falcon nie beskikbaar nie. Mbeki is tans in die Soedan vir die Afrika-unieberaad en dus was sy sakestraler besig.

Die lugmag het ’n kontrak vir die uitkontraktering van BBP-vlugte en huur na gelang van die dringendheid van lugvervoerversoeke deur die onderskeie staatsdepartemente vliegtuie, verhaalbaar van dié departemente se rekening. Die kontrakteur bekom ’n vliegtuig geskik vir die vlug.

Na verneem word, het mnr. Jacob Zuma in sy termyn as adjunkpresident gereeld met die twee goedkoper vliegtuie gevlieg wanneer hy amptelike verpligtinge gehad het. Wanneer ’n vliegtuig gehuur word, word dit na verneem word vir ’n bepaalde aantal ure verskaf – al word dit net vir ’n fraksie daarvan gebruik.

Intussen probeer die lugmag bepaal hoe die inligting oor Mlambo-Ngcuka se vlug na Aboe Dhabi uitgelek het. Mnr. Sam Mkhwanazi, woordvoerder vir die ministerie van verdediging, het gesê daar is nié ’n amptelike ondersoek nie. Personeel by die bevelspos in die lugmag se hoofkwartier in Pretoria, sowel as by 21 Eskader, die BBP-eskader by die Waterkloof-lugmagbasis, is egter reeds ondervra. Mkhwanazi het teen druktyd nog vir besonderhede oor die Sun City-vlug van die lugmag af gewag.

Die Burger (http://www.news24.com/Die_Burger/Nuus/0,,4-75_1866900,00.html)

Solid Rust Twotter

21st Jan 2006, 06:08

So what happened to the much touted transparency? The public has a right to know, yet it seems the hunt for someone to blame for the leak is going ahead.:hmm:

It appears that democracy comes without responsibility.....:{ :yuk:

flyboy2

22nd Jan 2006, 12:29

Lekota defends trip to Sun City by jet

January 22 2006 at 10:32AM

No aircraft other than the sophisticated intercontinental jet was available to take Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka to Sun City this week, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota said on Saturday.

He lashed out at a report in Beeld that listed alternative planes that could have been used.

"They are command fighters that work in operational places and are not used for carrying passengers."

Lekota also lashed out at reporter Erika Gibson, saying that as a former member of the old South African Defence force, she should have known her facts better.

Lekota also said there would be investigations into disloyal members of the airforce who sent her information that was effectively a security threat.

He said reports on the deputy president's visit to Abu Dhabi and Sun City had implied she was misusing tax payers money.

He said neither the deputy president nor the president had a say in the planes they used.

The ministry of defence took total responsibility for that. - Sapa
____________________________________________________________ __

Deputy president in new flight furore
Johannesburg, South Africa
22 January 2006 07:31

No aircraft other than a sophisticated Gulfstream V intercontinental jet was available to take Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka to Sun City this week, Minister of Defence Mosiuoa Lekota said on Saturday.

He lashed out at a report in Beeld that listed alternative planes in the South African Air Force's fleet that could have been used: a Cessna Citation and a King Air 200.

Those, he said, are used in operations and not for carrying passengers.

"Beeld has misrepresented the situation in the extreme, because the two small planes they refer to are not for the transport of the president, deputy president nor the minister of defence."

Lekota said that had the air force's Falcon 900 been available, it would have been used to ferry Mlambo-Ngcuka and her entourage to Sun City.

The deputy president went to open the Women's World Cup of Golf.

According to Beeld, the 13-minute journey in the Gulfstream -- which was chartered -- cost taxpayers an estimated R75 000, and use of the alternative planes could have cost less than half that amount.

However, Lekota said that had the Falcon 900 been used, it would have cost the taxpayer the same amount as the Gulfstream, because both planes are the same size.

The type of plane used depends on the size of the entourage, he added.

Reporter 'should have known better'
Lekota also lashed out at reporter Erika Gibson, saying that as a former member of the old South African Defence Force, she should have known her facts better.

"Apart from anything else, she is one journalist who ought to have known these facts and not allowed for the creation of sensation that has no sense."

Lekota also said there will be investigations into disloyal members of the air force who sent Gibson information that was effectively a threat to security.

"Last year, I dismissed two people who spoke to her giving her information with implications for the safety of the minister, deputy president or president."

Lekota said reports on the deputy president's visit to Abu Dhabi and Sun City have implied she was misusing taxpayers' money.

"The stories have left the distinct impression in the minds of the public that the deputy president is busy misusing public funds from which a deduction can be drawn that she is corrupt. There is no foundation for this slant."

Queries
He said the South African National Defence Force is the institution that takes the decision what planes to use, how many crew members to use and all else that goes with these kind of trips.

"Therefore, any queries relating to them should be directed to the Department of Defence."

Asked why he had taken so long since the Abu Dhabi trip to come forward with explanation, Lekota said he had been away and only just come back to work.

"I have just returned to duty. Questions should have been referred to the defence force, but unfortunately there was miscommunication."

Meanwhile, the Democratic Alliance said on Saturday that it is shocked.

"On the back of her taxpayer-funded R700 000 holiday to the United Arab Emirates, the deputy president has seen fit to spend a further R75 000 on chartering a luxury jet for a 13-minute trip to Sun City to open a sports tournament," said spokesperson Gareth Morgan.

He said it illustrates that the ruling African National Congress elite is completely out of touch with the plight of ordinary South Africans.

"While local government is in a state of disarray and people are rioting in the streets, the deputy president's biggest worry seems to be deciding which luxury jet aeroplane she will make her next trip in." -- Sapa
Related articles
PSAM: Phumzile should foot bill
Phumzile's flight of fancy: The unanswered questions
Phumzile could have saved thousands
Public protector to probe UAE flight
Phumzile's flight: Guest list grows
Deputy president keeps mum on UAE flight
Mbeki's response to UAE flight 'laughable'
Presidency: No laws broken by UAE trip
DA, FF+ want probe into Phumzile's trip
____________________________________________________________ _
So these flights certainly have attracted political & media attention !

Solid Rust Twotter

22nd Jan 2006, 12:34

...a Cessna Citation and a King Air 200.
Those, he said, are used in operations and not for carrying passengers...

So we'll be seeing the B200 low level interdiction fighter and the Cessna Citation high level bomber and reconnaisance aircraft joining the fleet of Hawks and Gripens in the SAAF arsenal.

Carlo must be so proud.....:E :rolleyes:

Exhaust Manifold

22nd Jan 2006, 12:47

Lekota defends trip to Sun City by jet
According to Beeld, the 13-minute journey in the Gulfstream -- which was chartered -- cost taxpayers an estimated R75 000, and use of the alternative planes could have cost less than half that amount.
However, Lekota said that had the Falcon 900 been used, it would have cost the taxpayer the same amount as the Gulfstream, because both planes are the same size.

:confused: Why did they have to use a Falcon or Gulfstream? If it was chartered then they could have chosen a cheaper option.

Shame on you miss deputy president :yuk:

I.R.PIRATE

22nd Jan 2006, 12:48

Reminds me of a line from a movie :" ITS GOOD TO BE THE KING"

Spetsnaz

22nd Jan 2006, 13:52

:confused: Why did they have to use a Falcon or Gulfstream? If it was chartered then they could have chosen a cheaper option.
Shame on you miss deputy president :yuk:
Or even a lowly chopper like the old regime used?? Could her 8 personal bodyguards and all her family friends not have fitted into one :ooh:

foghat

22nd Jan 2006, 14:02

The G II is often used by her.The registration is ZS-LOG and the last I heard it was in Switzerland for maintenance and some serious corrosion repairs.The a/c belongs to a company called Paramount logistics.The ops oke is from a previously disadvantage fraternity(connection with family SAAF member maybe?)

Ben Hogan

22nd Jan 2006, 15:23

The aircraft in question here was Anglo American's G5 ZSAOL. Surely somewhere in Gauteng something smaller/cheaper was available. But then of course you can not take your sister's ex-husband's cousin's dog breeder on a Citation.

TownshipDog

22nd Jan 2006, 16:07

Whats wrong with a mid-size, widebody, intercontinental, Mercedes-Benz S Class car? I'm sure there are a few blacked-out Merc's with those cool strobe lights in the garage at the deputy presidency to cart her there. Rumour has it they're quite comfy and have a slightly lower fuel consumption than a G5. Comes standard with cup holders in the back too...:}

REAL ORCA

22nd Jan 2006, 17:18

Lekota defends trip to Sun City by jet
January 22 2006 at 10:32AM

Lekota also lashed out at reporter Erika Gibson, saying that as a former member of the old South African Defence force, she should have known her facts better.

Good for you Erica- KEEP THEM HONEST!!!!!!:ok:

Spetsnaz

22nd Jan 2006, 19:22

MysticFlyer

22nd Jan 2006, 19:37

I agree Orca, good work Erika. Open & honest fair communication in respect of taxpayers money.

Who do they think they are! If there were a security risk involved with her to fly business on holiday, why not stay at home and work on her public perceived image, like showing they cared for the voters, by holding soup kitchens or handing out presents at a children's home over new year, but could that show their roots, or, are those now forgotten!

Taking a luxury tour bus, with police escorts could have also did the trick! Methinks they are totally out of touch with their voters "@ grassroots level", now some fear sets in. Few of the richest nations in the world would've been able to firstly accept or be able to afford such extravagance!

They are totally making a mockery out of misappropriating government funds! You see, as I previously mentioned, now the blame is packed on the "leaked" information, and freedom of press is incurbed by this direct attack at a reporter! Terror thinks his shoulders are broad enough, hauw!

Signs of social collapse! Fear the people @ grassroots level, there's the real threat, stop the township violence that have flared up. There's fire in the kitchen......and no fire-brigade!

MysticFlyer

22nd Jan 2006, 20:49

Yes, refering to the latest thread, it refers to how the press is soon undermining the great efforts of the government.

Even the minister of defence is onto the offence, well, taking offence in the interest of defence...

Guess what, no matter where they land, worldwide, SA's will be close to inspect and to report on the pprune whos was where, it's not always an insider! That underpaid policeman, that mistreated driver, anyone could pass some info, and what is then so bad if these are reported to the press/public/voters/taxpayers?

:eek:

Solid Rust Twotter

22nd Jan 2006, 22:08

Can't see much happening, no matter how loud the cries of "Foul!".:(

Any govt voted into power with those kind of margins is pretty much bulletproof. As long as the SA voter continues to vote on tribal and ethnic lines, the country is fecked...:{

Problem is, all politicians, by their very nature, are candidates for the final cigarette and blindfold against a wall one chilly morning.:* :mad: :yuk: Who do you vote for?:suspect: :hmm:

Deskjocky

23rd Jan 2006, 07:03

The really sad thing here is that the "grassroots" will vote for them again and again- mark my words- see the results in the upcoming local government elections. These folks feel they are entitled to rule, what are we so surprised at??? this kind of thing has been going on for years- the only reason these flights are in the open is becuase the opposition is trying to sling a little mud in an effort to get the pale faces to go and vote.

alwaysinverted

23rd Jan 2006, 07:54

So ou Trek Donkie, whilst you're sitting there in the cold sipping your Grappa, what views have you now? Are all these posts wrong or out of place, or how do I read you?

canthover

23rd Jan 2006, 08:19

Even an expensive twin helicopter would cost less than R75K - someones making huge tom from the government.

spice

23rd Jan 2006, 11:10

One has to wonder if South Africa is rapidly sinking to a level of corruption and excesses that other Africa countries have sunk to decades ago. Makes you definitely not proud to be a South African when you read about **** like this!!!!!

erikagibson

23rd Jan 2006, 13:57

I believe a gagging order has been issued in the SAAF which the guys have to sign and in which they undertake to never talk to the press... I'm waiting for a copy to see what exactly is written in it. It seems like at least some are refusing to sign.

Solid Rust Twotter

23rd Jan 2006, 14:19

Ain't transparency great?:ok:

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

south coast scaff

24th Jan 2006, 02:03

What I enjoy seeing is the fancy traditional outfits these govermental types wear at functions, apparently to make their voters feel that they are alost on a par.... But they are not on a par because the poor sods who vote these people into power walk everywhere. Why didnt she walk to the golf tournament? funny thing is G.O.L.F. stands for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden, so what was she doing their in the first place????

herindoors

24th Jan 2006, 05:07

Believe Patricia de Lille is asking the Finance Minister if Custom & Excise duties were paid,by the Dept Presidents friends, on their return from their freeload trip , if so where ?? as there is NO customs and excise stationed at Waterkloof Airforce base.
KFM Radio

ou Trek dronkie

24th Jan 2006, 07:53

You just don’t seem to get it do you ?

Nothing has changed except I checked and found out that Zuma has not yet been tried, so he is not guilty at the moment, no matter what any of us may think. Any presumptions otherwise are reckless. That’s what I mean by dangerous and stupid. I could be wrong of course.

What amazes me about many of the posts on this thread is the surprise some express that a) politicians are corrupt and b) corruption exists in Africa.

I am quite sure you are not suggesting I support their behaviour.

oTd

PS de Lille has changed her ideas since she was in the party which shot up Jremy Labuschagne in church. That must be progress of sorts anyway.

REAL ORCA

24th Jan 2006, 18:12

Welkom Erika!:ok:

4HolerPoler

4th Feb 2006, 13:10

To calm all the members - we will still allow the posting of Afrikaans news articles but would ask for the poster to give some indication of what is contained in the article.

4HP

4HolerPoler

9th Feb 2006, 16:28

Well, it's final - Thabo says it's OK. So it must be OK. OK :ooh:

Mbeki defends Phumzile's trip
Deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's use of an SA air force jet to fly to Abu Dhabi and back on holiday at the end of last year was correct in terms of security arrangements, President Thabo Mbeki told MPs on Thursday. Responding in the national assembly to debate on his state of the nation address, he said security arrangements since 1994 and before, called for both the president and deputy president to be provided with 24-hour protection. This meant that when they travelled by air, "unless the circumstances make this impossible, they travel in planes provided, managed and flown by the SA air force". These transport arrangements, which were an integral part of the security system decided exclusively by the state security services and not the president or deputy president, applied regardless of destination and the purpose of travel. "The SA air force therefore carried the deputy president to and from Abu Dhabi as the security regulations require," he said. This had been the only cost of the deputy president's holiday that had accrued to the state. "All other expenses incurred by the deputy president by going on holiday were met entirely by the deputy president, with absolutely no charge to the state." (Or by the UAE government or a certain crane company :suspect:)

Mbeki said unless security arrangements were changed, it would remain the responsibility of the police and the air force to transport the deputy president to her holiday destination. "I trust that after this explanation nobody will find it impermissible that she should continue to be provided with security on a 24-hour basis, which includes the periods when she is on holiday," he said. Mbeki made no mention of the cost of the flight, which the Democratic Alliance has said cost taxpayers more than R700 000. The president also made no mention of the furore over the fact that Mlambo-Ngcuka was accompanied on the flight by Thuthukile Mazibuko-Skweyiya, the wife of Social Development Minister Zola Skweyiya.

4HP

4HolerPoler

9th Dec 2006, 23:05

This chick is at it again but she's outdoing her previous attempts - this time she gets the aerie to dead-head from Switzerland to pick her & her mates up, flog them to London & Edinburgh & back to Joburg & then dead-head the plane back to Switzerland. Are you surprised it cost over 4 & a half million?

A flight to Britain by South Africa's deputy president that cost R4.55m and was ordered without authorisation will be investigated, the minister of defence said on Saturday. Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka and her staff were on a working visit to Edinburgh and London, for which the Defence Department hired a plane without authorisation from the ministry, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota said. "The extraordinary cost associated with the hiring of the plane was irregular and way out of proportion with reasonable standards," Lekota said in a statement, adding that he would set up an inquiry board to investigate the matter. When Terror smells a rat you gotta know there's a big drol in the drink-water. ;)

Lekota said, however, that Mlambo-Ngcuka herself was not at fault. "Any attempt to suggest that either the staff of the Presidency or the deputy president herself is to blame must be rejected with the contempt it deserves," he said. The Defence Department has sole responsibility for the air transport of the Presidency, Lekota said. Mlambo-Ngcuka has been in criticised for similar issues twice before, however, after an air force plane was used to transport her and her family for a private trip to the United Arab Emirates last year, as well as a 13-minute ride to a golf tournament at the nearby Sun City resort.

On the most recent incident, a Johannesburg newspaper reported that a plane had to be flown from Switzerland to take Mlambo-Ngcuka and her entourage to the Britain because there were not enough trained pilots in South Africa. On her return to South Africa, the plane would have to be flown back to Switzerland, it said. A first-class return ticket from Johannesburg to London and Glasgow would cost about R52 000 per person, the paper reported. It was not clear how many people were travelling with the deputy president. The opposition welcomed the inquiry into the flight, but said Mlambo-Ngcuka could not be absolved of all blame for her "conspicuous expenditure" in a country with millions of poor people. "If she was on board the flight, she must take political responsibility," said Motlatjo Thetjeng, member of parliament for the Democratic Alliance, in a statement. He said the party would review the matter and, if necessary, refer it to the Public Protector for further investigation.

Kerchiiiiiiiiiiinnggggggg. Next please.

4HP

putt for dough

10th Dec 2006, 05:36

I somehow think that this sort of spending is only going
to get worse on all politicians behalf!

Now who said that we weren't going to be sliding
like our northern neighbours again?

4HolerPoler

12th Dec 2006, 22:30

From bad to worse.....

Deputy president Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka's contentious visit to Britain turned into a disaster when the aircraft that was hired at great cost to transport her broke down and had to be replaced. The bill for the replacement aircraft to get her back home will also be sent to the South African taxpayer. She arrived at Lanseria airport on Tuesday morning, a day later than planned, and was promptly greeted by journalists from Radio 702. The radio station said the Swiss jetliner hired for her at a cost of R4.55m left as planned from Gatwick airport on Monday. It was scarcely airborne before it had to turn back to Gatwick, near London, apparently because of technical problems. By bizarre coincidence, the faulty aircraft was parked at Gatwick next to a plane that belongs to HBD - a company in the stable of billionaire South African entrepreneur and space traveller, Mark Shuttleworth. This was confirmed in Cape Town by Stuart Kirkman, a spokesperson for the Shuttleworth group. "The Shuttleworth group owns an aircraft which is hired to third parties, commercially, by the Execujet company. "This is done without deferring to the owner. "The decision to convey the deputy president was by no means politically motivated, and a market-related tariff was charged," Kirkman said. He referred all further questions to Execujet. Etti Poggi, general manager of Execujet at Lanseria airport, was non-committal and did not provide any new information.

Government sources were as quiet as mice. Nothing could be confirmed via official channels. Nothing further has been heard of the promised board of inquiry that was announced on Saturday by Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota, soon after the story about the Swiss jet charter broke. On Monday, the defence department declined to comment on reports that the presidency specifically requested a jet with transcontinental capabilities, rather than one that would have had to refuel during the flight to Britain.

Think this is bad? You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait until the spin-doctors come up with the inevitable justification theories. They're going to earn their ill-begot money on this one.

4HP