BRISTOL - 3

[MerchantVenturer]

Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231023&page=14

crackling,

BE also operated to TLS but gave in when easyJet appeared alongside earlier this year.

To be honest, I was surprised that BE didn't look at CWL before. It seems an ideal place for their set-up, especially with baby at CWL a pale shadow of easy's BRS operation.

I agree with you about 'a Bristolian'. When he speaks, listen, because his gen is never duff. I too have a pretty shrewd idea of his real identity, and I would love to know his take on the discussions (or perhaps monologue) that must have occurred between BE and BRS over that airline's future, or lack of, at Lulsgate's Rear End.

Bristol_Trav,

I agree with your interpretation of the new Travel Rewards Scheme. It seems open to anyone to join and remain in, regardless of number of flights taken, and cannot be considered a loyalty programme because the rewards don't appear to be related in any way to airport usage.

Navigator did get into a terrible admin mess a year or two back and completely messed up the records of both my wife and me and, I believe, many other members. I was told at the time by someone fairly senior at the airport that they had seriously considered closing Navigator down then.

What they did was cull the numbers by insisting on a minimum five departures a year to stay in the programme.

Although their blurb suggests the change is in response to Navigator members' requests for a simpler system, I believe the real reason is that Travel Rewards will be a much easier and cost-effective system for the airport to operate, with no membership cards nor statements/vouchers to be sent out every six months. Everything will be done via email.

In truth, Navigator benefits were receding anyway. For instance, my wife and I, being regular leisure travellers, used to like to use the business lounge occasionally via our Navigator vouchers, but this facility was withdrawn earlier this year.

We shall just have to wait and see how it all pans out.

[WATABENCH]

Still cant see anything on the SAS website, could just be a charter maybe?

[GrahamK]

SAS operates twice weekly for about 7 weeks. Short summer only scheduled series. Something like 28th June-10th August or something like that. Using B737-600s.

[WOWBOY]

Has there been anyword on wether any of the BA Connect routes are to be pciked up by other operators?

[jetstream7]

WOWBOY

There are no routes to pick up as BA Connect hasn't dropped any routes. Neither have flyBE said they will drop routes.
Remember that the merger between flyBE and BA Connect is yet to happen
Not until the deal is signed, sealed and delivered is it likely that there will be any announcements about the future at BRS.
If I remember correctly, I asked previously, if the routes are profitable for BA Connect, why would flyBE want to drop them?

[MerchantVenturer]

At the present time BACon operates twenty rotations out of BRS on most weekdays, involving five based ERJ 145s and also aircraft based in Scotland.

Given that the 145s are probably going sooner rather than later (assuming the purchase of BACon by Flybe does goes through) could Flybe logistically operate this pattern of scheduling, and would they want to?

For a start it would mean competing against easy on the high volume EDI and GLA routes where easy currently flies three rotations each weekday on both routes and BACon five on both.

easy have already seen off Flybe on the Belfast (admittedly a different airport), TLS and now BOD. easy also now flies to CDG (once a day) alongside BACon’s five rotations most weekdays.

For Flybe to take on the Orange machine on these routes would mean a reversal of its recent behaviour at BRS.

I suppose it's conceivable that Flybe might still fly all or some of MUC, FRA, DUS, ZRH and MXP.

A couple of other items in the news:

BRS is now wholly owned by the Australian Macquarie Group following the exercise of its option to purchase Ferrovial’s half share recently.

The Stop Bristol Airport Expansion consortium is now flexing its apparently not inconsiderable muscles.

They are in the process of delivering 10,000 leaflets to households in areas they believe might contain a lot of NIMBYs and have also taken out a full two-page advertisement in today’s Bristol Evening Post – not cheap even on a Saturday.

I received one of their leaflets. It is very professionally produced on four thin card pages and additionally contains a perforated business reply card to be sent to North Somerset Council to object to the expansion.

I took advantage of this free postal offer and edited the card to explain why the expansion SHOULD go ahead. Thanks SBAE for the chance to save a few pence.

Clearly this group is highly organised and seemingly well funded. I foresee legal obstacles being put in place every step of BRS’s way through the planning jungle as it attempts to expand its infrastructure.

[WATABENCH]

Nice one MV, thats brilliant, I remember an old Billy Connelly show where he's on about junk mail, he says "reply to it with a dog poo and a note saying, you send me your s**t, so heres some of mine" absolutely brilliant ha ha :} :} :}
As there words of Micheal Caine (kind of) "NIMBY'S THOUSANDS OF EM" Wonder where they all fly from when they go their hols hmmmm my guess is that they dont wish to add polution by driving to LGW! :hmm:

[MerchantVenturer]

Hi W,

I wouldn’t like anyone to think I am someone who believes airports should be allowed to expand any way they wish.

It’s just that I believe Bristol’s proposals are entirely reasonable and, if anything, a touch modest.

In any negotiations you usually ask for more than you expect to get and the ‘other side’ then feels it has justified itself if it knocks you back a bit. In this case BRS has already pared what it might have reasonably sought but will still face huge challenges from objectors.

Why not ask for more and finish with about what they are actually asking for now? The danger is that this will still be reduced in some way or ways to satisfy the bargaining by compromise principle.

The hypocrisy of some people also infuriates me. Apart from the objectors’ case being full of selective ‘facts’ and at times downright inaccuracies, at least one of the people associated prominently with the group is a regular leisure user of the airport, and outbound tourism is one of the planks of the antis’ argument.

I remember this man campaigning in 1993 in dear old Les Wilson’s days - I know Les wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea but what an enthusiast and publicist for the airport he was and, apart from the obvious grief to his family and friends when he was killed in a motor accident, the local aviation scene also lost something good.

At that time the airport first put forward plans for a new terminal (they had to wait until the airport was partially privatised four years later before it got under way) that was going to public enquiry.

I have some glossy brochures of that period outlining the future plans – indeed the airport’s target in 1993 when it carried one million pax in a year for the first time was two million in 2003. The actual total became 3.8 million in 2003 but few could have predicted the rise of low cost airlines then.

Anyway, all this led to certain groups predicting the end of life as we know it for the residents in the surrounding villages and even further afield.

They were saying that two million passengers a year would mean jumbo jets circling over south Bristol, huge traffic jams and unacceptable noise and air quality levels for local people.

I remember having a heated argument with a group of protestors in a south Bristol shopping precinct at that time.

The current anti-expansionists are using exactly the same tactics: distorted truth, lies and a wish to scare-monger.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I can see that Bristol faces opposition from a group of people who (as individuals) have an unusually potent mix of being relatively affulent, environmentally aware and organised. That probably reflects the socio-demographic make up of the Greater Bristol area and the area directly around the airport. We're certainly the most eco-aware part of the UK - for both good and bad.

There's an unjustified level of stridency and emotion in their campaigning; maybe there aren't enough environmental risks in the West to put the airport's proposals in proportion? (I would have thought much of the chemical business down at Avonmouth was a far greater *risk*, but less visible).

I don't have much experience of dealing with North Somerset council; if it was Bristol City Council, I'd be groaning. BCC is a council that rarely shows leadership or organised thinking. I suspect they must have tired legs from all the knee-jerk reactions.

On a divergence; Bristol - Stockholm has turned up on SAS website, at about £104 return (mid July dates). But it hasn't permeated Star Alliance's website, who claim that the only Bristol in the world is in Virginia, and LH (my *A home airline) can't look at award booking avails yet for the same reason.

[anoraknophobia]

Don't know if any one else in Bristol has noticed that virtually every major Bill Hoarding site in the city has a poster for BA connect flying from Bristol.I know these thing are organised some time in advance,but considering the uncertain times facing Ba's operations it would seem at the same time the Flybe deal was being discussed,the marketing department was budgeting quite a considerable sum on advertising.If the Flybe takeover of Ba connect is completed it would be ironic if the routes disappeared and later CAA data showed a gain in passenger numbers.

[chrism20]

virtually every major Bill Hoarding site in the city has a poster for BA connect flying from Bristol.


A large number of new ad's have been erected up here in Edinburgh advertising BRS, MAD & HAM - would appear to be nationwide

[terrier23]

I wonder how many trees were cut down in the making of 10,000 ,at least, leaflets regarding stop bristol expansion.

Not to mention how many poor squids were squeezed for the ink :} :ugh:

If the Nimby's have this much time on their hands why don't they plant some trees not waste paper and card that, I would say, at least 98% of is going to be thrown, more than likely, in the black sack rather than being recycled!!! Which in turn is going to fill up more land fill sights so more trees will have to be cut down to make room for our waste. Which in turn will over run the country with rats and more bl**dy nimbys meaning us people with a bl**dy life will have to fly more to get away from the insanity which we live in. Or something like that!

t23

[CentreFix25]

Aer Arran website has Bristol - Manchester as a new route for 2007, is this not already flown by Air Southwest?

[WOWBOY]

So Aer Arann aren't Flying BRistol to Manchester then!

I thought it was starnge for them to go up against WOW.

[RE72]

It Is A Typo Regarding RE BRS - MAN.

Next Summer Will See RE Service:

BRS - ORK

BRS - GWY

BRS - NTE

[chrism20]

Merchant

Sorry - the website does have a box advertising BRS-MAN, when I looked forst time I got a picture of a turkey!

[Smile!!!]

At the present time BACon operates twenty rotations out of BRS on most weekdays, involving five based ERJ 145s and also aircraft based in Scotland.

Given that the 145s are probably going sooner rather than later (assuming the purchase of BACon by Flybe does goes through) could Flybe logistically operate this pattern of scheduling, and would they want to?

For a start it would mean competing against easy on the high volume EDI and GLA routes where easy currently flies three rotations each weekday on both routes and BACon five on both.


Wel it looks as though from JAN to MAR 06, only three 145 are to be based at BRS according to flybes, nextgenerationairline , site. AAnd then from APR to OCT there are only to be 2 145s to be based a BRS. From the site it also looks asif the 145s are all to stay through 07, and that the Q300 and 146s are to go. Please PM if you cant find site or links.

[anoraknophobia]

I was at the back of the airport today and saw what seemed to be the start of the dismantling of the BA hanger.If this is the case then this would seem to indicate that the next phase of apron extension continues apace.Nice to see that despite the reduction of BA/FLYBE ERJs based next year and SBAE sabre rattling, Bristol airport management remain focused on their expansion plans.

[terrier23]

Heard on the news this morning that Bristol airport has won an award for the best regional airport in the world. Well done guys:D :D

[MerchantVenturer]

Hi there terrier.

The accolade was apparently awarded by a panel of judges on behalf of Passenger Terminal World, a publication I must confess to never having heard of although I am sure many aviation professionals have.

Amongst the range of critera to be considered were the food and retailing. Hmm! Not sure about these, especially the food outlets.

The next few weeks could be crucial to the airport’s future expansion. The North Somerset Council is currently supervising the public consultation period for the master plan and on 18 January its relevant committee will decide whether the plan can be used as a guide for subsequent planning applications.

Already one local MP is demanding that the council adopt a noise quota system for day flights as part of any acceptance of the plan.

I remember a decade or more ago the then local authority originally insisted there be no night flights at all as part of the price to be paid for their passing the plans for the new terminal. Common sense eventually prevailed.

Even if the council does accept the master plan (and it would be a surprise to me if they did not try to tinker with some of it), each planning application for the likes of the terminal extension, on-site hotel and multi-storey car parks will still need a lot of pushing through.

18 January will certainly give a clue as to how much pushing will be needed over the next few years.

[terrier23]

Hi MV.

The MP of whom you speak I believe is Mr John Penrose from my area, Weston. To be perfectly honest I find the guy a complete prat all he has done since being elected is open up one youth cafe and stick an upside turnip with bloody lights on in the town centre, some say it it looks like a hugh hyperdermic needle which is probably apt for weston. Not sure what his particular grievances are but weston as a whole gets very few disturbances from the airport, with most flights to high to cause a problem on the approach all I can surmise is that he is heavily funded by some local nimby who lives nearer to lulsgate bottom and is worried that the airport is going to throw out more co2 emmissions than their slection of landrovers and old beamers which probably take diesel anyway. Rant over

Anymore news on replacement of BA's routes or indeed new schedule or charters for next year.

T23:ok:

[MerchantVenturer]

terrier,

I think this is largely down to party politics. Penrose is a Conservative and another local Tory, the higher-profile Liam Fox, has also set himself publicly against the airport expanding, although he does hint he might change his mind a bit if road access was greatly improved.

Because it’s Labour’s idea to expand airports the Tory MPs instinctively seem against it, at least in this part of the world.

Of course those Tories on the local council committee cannot be so cavalier in their public pronouncements as they have a duty to strictly follow the law when it comes to arriving at decisions. I think the North Somerset Council has no overall political majority anyway although the Tories are the largest group. Could be wrong, but I don't live in that area.

Many years ago when old Labour was in power (probably the late 60s) central government put forward a suggestion that Bristol should become a local airport with Cardiff becoming the regional airport for the West and South Wales. That time the local Conservatives went into overdrive against those plans. As I said, it’s politics.

The provisional programme for summer 2007 (sched and charter) is available to download from the BRS website in .pdf form.

On the charter front Olbia doesn't appear, although Chania is back and Innsbruck re-appears after many years’ absence in summer (as opposed to winter). Agadir is also continuing through next summer but one or two destinations seem to have fewer rotations than last summer.

I realise that much can change between now and when the programme commences.

No surprises on the scheduled front but again things could still happen of course.

The airport has taken an interesting approach re the current BA flights.

For CDG, EDI and GLA it lists the easyJet flights only, but adds a note, “Additional flights will be confirmed shortly” adding that the airport website should be visited for up-to-date information when available.

For MUC, FRA, DUS, MXP, ZRH it appends a note, “Flights are expected to operate during summer 2007” adding that the airport website should be visited for up-to-date information when available. It also has the same note for the proposed sched service to Gibraltar.

Doubtless these are ‘holding’ announcements and it may be that the airport itself has no concrete information at this time.

[Standard Noise]

I take it you've all written to North Somerset council to express your support for the airport's plans?

[terrier23]

I have, although I will moving away from this area next year. I still have a lot of feelings for the place as I worked there for 3 and a half years. Ive also got friends and family here and it is easy to fly than too drive or take the train for visits

[WATABENCH]

In travel weekly this week it is mentioned that Cadogan holidays is wanting to expand in BRS, MAN and EMA. In the report on Cadogans new look management it says ;

"Cadogan is also hoping to increase its influence in parts of the UK where it has not traditionally focused on, including Bristol, Manchester and East Midlands through sister company GB Airways"

That sounds very promising for new GB routes from BRS in the near future to me, lets hope :ok:

[MerchantVenturer]

I was at the back of the airport today and saw what seemed to be the start of the dismantling of the BA hanger.
anoraknophobia,

Very sad news was reported today in that a workman employed on demolishing a hangar at BRS (presumably the one you mentioned) fell to his death on Saturday morning. My thoughts are with his loved ones.

I take it you've all written to North Somerset council to express your support for the airport's plans?
Standard Noise,

Yes I certainly have and got SBAE to pay the postage.

BRS MD Andrew Skipp revealed today that it is intended to make BRS the greenest airport in the country, citing a yet to be announced ‘carbon off-setting programme’.

Mr Skipp also alluded to the activities of SBAE when he said, “Despite the misleading and expensive advertising and marketing campaign of the airport’s opponents – who seem to want to stop any progress or development which might benefit the wider region – we have been heartened by the support our proposals have received from staff, politicians and members of the public across the region.”

He must be a regular reader of PPRuNe. :D

[Standard Noise]

Yes I certainly have and got SBAE to pay the postage.

He must be a regular reader of PPRuNe. :D

On the first point - damn, I wish I'd thought of that!
On the second - I think a few of them read it regularly.

[Standard Noise]

I see Andrew Skipp was on the lunchtime news talking about the expansion plans alongside one of the SBAE liars/fantasists/luddites (delete as appropraite), although rather than send one of their more rabid looking members, they sent a little old granny, prolly to try win over a bit of sympathy against the big nasty old airport. She was noncing on about increases in this, that and the other but missed the word from the CAA that lo cost flights have not actually increased the overall traffic levels in the UK despite claims by the tree huggers. She also, yet again, skipped over the fact that raod pollution would increase if people were forced to drive to Cardiff/Exeter/Birmingham/London etc and the flights would still take place.

Must stop now, blood is reaching boiling point. F*&%ing protestors!

[MerchantVenturer]

S N

I caught a brief glimpse of the ITV West News this evening and the SBAE had their version of a dolly bird in front of the camera.

More worrying was an interview with a N Somerset councillor who seemed to be saying that despite the protests at today's initial council meeting there was probably a public consensus for limited expansion, though not as much as the airport wants, and this might be reflected in the council's ultimate decision as to how much of the master plan to adopt for future planning guidance.

This has been my fear all along (#8 on 10 Dec in this thread). Because the airport's proposals are relatively modest they will be chopped back to something unrealistic (for the airport) to satisfy the opponents.

Why didn't the airport ask for more than it wants, or expects to get, because that would probably be chopped back to what they are asking for now.

See dear old BRS, the butt of everyone's weather jokes, has remained open all day today whilst nearby CWL and EXT have been closed all day, although the latter may have just re-opened.

Doubtless, some extra work for you and your colleagues because I see a fair number of diversions were glad to make the acquaintance of Lulsgate's Bottom.

[Standard Noise]

Yes indeed MV, I wondered why they didn't ask for more, but I can only imagine that they know what they are doing. However, if the govt has expressed a need for the expansion of regional airports, then the management could always appeal the council decision through the ODPM since they seem to hold final say when all else fails.

I was on nights last night, and we along with Exeter, were the only places open then. In fact one in the eye for Filton, everyone else's choice as Bristol's airport, it was fog bound and the mail flights had to return from whence they came. Should anyone's cards or prezzies be late, complaints should be sent to BAe at Filton for not spending dosh on proper kit, I did all I could but it was to no avail.
I saw on the BBC website, under the story about the travel chaos, that some eejit was complaining about being stuck in Bristol for 3 hours. Mon Dieu! Three whole hours! But the airport site is showing that only 3 inbounds have been canx and only two outbounds (which not surprisingly, correspond to two of the inbounds). The eejit's flight wasn't even one of them. But few of the travelling public realise that it's not the airport's fault, nor our fault at ATC that flights are diverted or canx. It is mainly down to the airlines and their refusal to either pay to equip their aircraft to fly in CATIII (zero visibility) conditions or drag their heels in making sure their crews are capable of flying in such conditions. It makes my blood boil when people blame the airport for this......and I don't even work for the airport anymore!

[WATABENCH]

Well done everybody involved with the diverts/delays on Weds, particually Servisair all departments who from what I saw handled everything brilliantly, diverts coming in for CWL/EXT/LPL and others, also dealing with all the pax coming from those airports to get on their flights, BABY/RE/TOM/FCA/EZY/KL were all amongst the airlines that needed their help, and was very appreciated beleive me. It was just like a summer saturday with the amount of flights in and out.
I fear much the same tomorrow if BRS can manage to stay above the freezing fog, sometimes it definatly pays to be the 2nd highest airport in the country, I imagine there is a lot of greatful Welsh and Devonians about this evening.
Also interestingly the runway will re-open for 2 weeks at night as of thurs, may be many more diverts coming our way in the next 24-48 hrs.
Round of applause for all at BRS :D :D

[easyJet Galley King]

I suppose it's conceivable that Flybe might still fly all or some of MUC, FRA, DUS, ZRH and MXP

I was led to believe (correct me if im inaccurate) that the only BA Connect route that was really profitable was their CDG route? Sure, they fly 5 times daily, but since the introduction of our daily service with aircraft 3 times larger, this must have seriously dented their passenger numbers.

Frankfurt, Dusseldorf and Zurich (although, perhaps a flight to Basel though?) dont really fit the easy way, but with a newly opened base at Milan Malpensa, and previous experience of Munich from Stansted, I wouldnt be surprised to see that you'd be sat on an orange A319 if you need to get to these cities.

Personally, I think Flybe would be dumb to take us on at Bristol, and would be better off doing some more services from Exeter (like introduce some more International services) or as rumoured, take on BMIBaby at Cardiff (You've got more chance of succeeding here Flybe)

[Standard Noise]

Well done everybody involved with the diverts/delays on Weds, particually Servisair all departments who from what I saw handled everything brilliantly..................................
Also interestingly the runway will re-open for 2 weeks at night as of thurs, may be many more diverts coming our way in the next 24-48 hrs.
Round of applause for all at BRS :D :D

Shame the same couldn't have been said of Tuesday evening before the runway closed when Servis-scare turned diversions away from Briss cos they couldn't be a**ed.

[caaardiff]

Shame the same couldn't have been said of Tuesday evening before the runway closed when Servis-scare turned diversions away from Briss cos they couldn't be a**ed.

I thought ATC decided when the runway closed? Surely the decision wouldnt be Servisair's?
Weren't they given a short extension for some flights anyway? Then one or 2 others were running quite late?

Judging by the fact they handled nearly all of CWL's flights, plus any more and their own and very efficiently from what i hear! Well Done Servisair!! :D

[Standard Noise]

It is down to the Airport Authority although we have a little operational leeway, but I wasn't talking about the runway closure itself, that's nowt to do with Servis-scare.
And the extension on Tuesday was granted by the Airport Authority as a favour to the airline concerned for other reasons and it was only for one flight outbound. I haven't mentioned Wednesday cos I wasn't at work. Perhaps they redeemed themselves on Weds, but I'm sure it was before 2300, doubtful it would have been later.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I think the BRS planning application is sensible.

What happens these days is you apply to the local planning authority, there is a quick and dirty local protest and permission is denied. You then take your regionally important application to Prescott and his office grants it and the local authority have to sit and whistle.

This system operates on the implict understanding that you only ask for what you actually need and don't take the p155.

Hence BRS applying for a moderate and phased extension. It doesn't want to be the next Manchester and is focussed on being a regional airport. Busy, profitable but a regional.

I think they are clever.

Cheers

WWW

[MerchantVenturer]

I can see that Bristol faces opposition from a group of people who (as individuals) have an unusually potent mix of being relatively affulent, environmentally aware and organised. That probably reflects the socio-demographic make up of the Greater Bristol area and the area directly around the airport. We're certainly the most eco-aware part of the UK - for both good and bad.

WWW

I accept everything you say from a factual point of view but the airport is facing a particularly well-organised group and the psyche of the wider local populace has to be taken into account.

I cannot put it better than Bristol_Traveller, an excerpt from whose recent post I reprise above.

If John Prescott overturned any council decision, whether it be non or partial acceptance of the master plan as a basis for future planning applications or individual planning applications themselves, the antis would paint it as Big Brother central government over-ruling the democratically elected local representatives.

They would then command support from a lot of ordinary local people, not themselves anti expansion per se, but furious that decisions were being taken out of local hands.

Having lived in this area for over sixty years I've seen it before, in connection with roads, supermarkets and other matters. We can be a funny lot down here.

At the end of the day the plans might be pushed through, but only perhaps after appeals or even a public enquiry or high court challenges.

This would take a lot of time, something the airport hasn't got a great deal of if it wants to adhere to its published timetable, and if the Conservatives were to win the next general election they may well go right back to the drawing boards in their plans for the future of civil aviation.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It happens already day in day out. You take your planning appeal to the regional authority under the charge of J Prescott and in over 80% of cases the local planning refusal is overturned.

The planning officers and local councillers have been spitting blood about it for the last two years. A Terminal 5 style £14m 9 yr long enquiry is now never to be repeated. The White Paper has been issued, in it Bristol will get its expansion, the current LOCAL planning "debate" will be overuled if the decision goes the wrong way and all this will happen within two years.

Local planning control on large public infrastructure projects is dead.

But they still allow 24 months of debate, a campaign group to be formed and local councillors to wring their hands about it all and appear concerned and important. Then the permission is agreed on appeal.

That is what happens now.

Cheers

WWW

[redfield]

Standard Noise: "Servis-scare couldn't be a***ed" or words to that effect. I would suggest that you get your facts straight before you make such disparaging and badly thought-out remarks. Firstly, Servisair didn't turn away any diversions on the night to which you refer. It's not our place to turn away diversions, we have to refer to the airport COM and/or the ASU who have the authority to make such decisions. Maybe they turned them away? Mind you, I was on shift that night and I never heard about any requests for diversions. Why don't you ask to spend a day with Servisair to see what it's like for them? You might learn something. WWW Thanks for your remarks: it's been an interesting couple of days to say the least. We had another ten or so diversions overnight Wednesday / Thursday morning from CWL, including three WW, four RE, TOM, KLM and Easy Switzerland (from LGW I think). Roll on Friday!:8

[Standard Noise]

It was a COM who told me Servis-scare turned the flight away. I can only tell you what I was told. Mind you, if Servis-scare had their way, the Baby AMS flight would not have got down cos they refused it as well, I was the one who told the COM it would be landing. Maybe you should check your facts my friend.

[WATABENCH]

Handbags at 10 paces! :}
Anybody know anything about an easyjet coming off taxiway today, couldnt see cus of fog but closed the runway for a bit i believe, or at least that was what i heard, many a/c had to divert when they could of got in on cat 3, not ideal considering whats going on across the country.

[redfield]

Standard Noise - sorry, I'm not aware of any BMI diversion landing on the evening to which you're referring either?? I was on shift, we didnt get a diversion. W - the Easyjet didn't run off the tarmac as such, it overshot slightly and ended up amongst the runway lights at the end! I think one or two lights might have been damaged but the a/c had been towed to stand 24 by about 1400. We went from one extreme to the other today: diversions on the ground in the AM to aircraft diverting away in the PM. Bad luck for the TCX pax going to AGA; their flight was subchartered to Loftleidir Icelandic, rscheduled to operate 5 hours behind schedule and the a/c diverted to BHX while the runway was closed. Ouch!:ugh:

[WATABENCH]

Fun and games last night in BRS, Aurigny and I believe BA both veering off the taxiway/runway somehow, think crosswinds and slippery surfaces may be to blame but not sure so I wont say much more about it, I expect someone on the thread will enlighten us at some point, runway was closed and a few flights diverted to CWL, I believe a few also diverted there anyway due to crosswinds beyond limits, FCA for example made 2 attempts and decided it wasnt worth a 3rd.
Ahh good to have the proper british winter weather back, make the pilots work for their big ass wages :} :} :}

[30W]

FCA for example made 2 attempts and decided it wasnt worth a 3rd.

WATABENCH, They would not have been able to do so - strict Ops Manual restrictions apply to making a 3rd approach based upon improvement in weather criteria.......

[anoraknophobia]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in this case has someone cocked up big time? No work is being carried out on the resurfacing of the runway between 21 dec and 2nd jan,standard practice for the construction industry so this temporary runway surface has to be landed on for the best part of two weeks. As anyone who has read the Bristol postings on the rumours thread can see, bad weather at Bristol can be challenging for pilots at the best of times,but these latest incidents would seem to indicate a miscalulation in the timing of these works.Have commercial pressures,ie keeping the runway closed for the minimum time impacted on the work that can be achieved each night. The work is not scheduled to be completed till March so Winter 2007 could yet throw up some more nasties.

[WATABENCH]

30W
Thanks for that info, wasn't aware of that. Learn something new everyday

[Stone Cold II]

New route for EZY from BRS to IBZ starting in the summer.

[Silvertop]

Stone Cold II

Unless I'm mistaken it seems only one flight a week on Saturday,so will the easy kiosk now carry a range of designer recreational er sustances?:E

[tyfilou]

Does any body know if the middle portion of BRISTOL runway has been grooved or would be grooved before next week?

[Stone Cold II]

I have no idea how many flights, didn't see a timetabe issued yet. Just seen it advertised on the easyJet web page for staff.

[WATABENCH]

Heard a few things today, Mezzanine level in departure lounge is being extended, it will now reach from bar de voyages right across to the business lounges, which in turn will be extended, so no more light airy feel to the lounge unless your upstairs by the sounds of it, work will take place overnight and last approx 16 weeks.
Terminal expansion is expected to start next winter all being well.
Latest rumour is that TOM are going to pull out in order to concentrate in CWL.....:confused:

[crackling jet]

they were advertising Bistol-luxor as a new destination for winter 07 in their brochure a couple of months ago,shame to se them go if they are off.

[airhumberside]

Latest rumour is that TOM are going to pull out in order to concentrate in CWL.....:confused:
Wouldn't be a surprise - TOM are closing some of their other smaller bases - LBA and MME. However I would guess they would still offer holidays from BRS if this happenned and possibly operate some w paterns into BRS

[britannialad]

Its been on the cards for a while now BRS and STN. Poor guys in Leeds have just heard their base is to close first! Rumour has it their will be an announcement at the end of JAN?
There are massive changes going on at Thomson the reputation we once had has now gone. Such a shame to see a fantastic airline go down the pan.
All the crew are fantastic to work with, they try their best to keep the high standards.
There is a rumour going round saying will Britannia/Thomsonfly be around in a couple of years time?

[Bristol_Traveller]

GWR-fm is reporting that EZY have canx all flights from BRS, which seems to be the case looking at the Deps board.

It looks like the middle of the runway got too risky. Not surprising, given the recent skids, slips and overshoots.

Anyone airside got any insider on this?

[dwlpl]

Bristol_Traveller

From their site;

All flights to and from Bristol cancelled this morning, 5 January 2007
easyJet announces that it has cancelled all flights to and from Bristol International Airport this morning following concerns over the reliability of the newly resurfaced runway in wet weather conditions.

The safety of its passengers, crew and aircraft is easyJet’s first priority and this decision has been taken following extensive discussions with Bristol International Airport and the UK Civil Aviation Authority.

Customers are entitled to a refund of the fare paid or a free transfer onto another easyJet flight within the next month.

Customers are asked to refer to the website for information, a further update will be provided before midday today.

[fyrefli]

From: http://www.saynoto0870.com/

0870 / 0871 Geographical
0871 2442366 01582 525422
0871 2442366 01582 700036
0871 2442399 01582 525422

It does currently have a recorded message referring people to the website, which remains with morning cancellations only at this time.

[Buster the Bear]

Rumours of "The wrong type of tarmac being used to resurface the runway"?

For an airline to cancel flights when rain is forecast is rather unusual. Norwich had problems a few years back, but nothing on this scale.

How do you make a slippery runway non-slippery rapidly? I guess you can grind grooves on the surface, but this makes a mockery of the recent expenditure on 'glass' tarmac!

easyJet are rapidly fitting arrestor hooks onto their A319 fleet to utilise Bristol's newly fitted runway arrestor wire (to be installed tonight)! Rumours of ex Ark Royal Buccaneer and Phantom pilots coming out of retirement to fly their planes are rife!

[Ranger 1]

Perhaps this is another reason why Easy are twitchy. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258373

[LTNman]

Rumours of "The wrong type of tarmac being used to resurface the runway"?

Apparently this slippery layer of tarmac is not the final layer. Only when the final layer goes on can the grooving begin.

I see the airports website says that only easyjet have cancelled flights with no mention of the hoards of other airlines that are now refusing to fly into the airport. The airports arrivals board though shows a different story.

[Buster the Bear]

A daft question?

Why are they not resurfacing individaul sections of the runway in turn to aviod this situation? I am assuming that large lengths of the runway are rather slippery currently?

[Smile!!!]

I see the airports website says that only easyjet have cancelled flights with no mention of the hoards of other airlines that are now refusing to fly into the airport. The airports arrivals board though shows a different story.

Yes, BA, EZY, FCA, TCX, Air Malta, KLM(from the 1050 on), XLA, have all cancalled their flights out of Bristol with most transferring PAX to CWL or BHX.

[WATABENCH]

Still at least the NIMBY's have nothing to shout about for a few days!
No pollution ere my babers!
No bloody planes either!

[LGS6753]

What can the beleaguered management of BRS do? Presumably 1) their contractors have skilled people who have to sleep, and 2) the contractors don't have spare capacity sitting around to throw at this problem. So they can't just close for a few days and get the job finished.

If a re-think about the process of the operation is required (ie finishing a section completely before opening the runway for use again rather than laying a base layer, opening then closing again to complete the surface) the implications of that could be substantial.

As it stands, EZY and the other operators won't be returning until the problem is resolved (if only for PR reasons - now that they have implied it's unsafe to operate from BRS, they will need extra reassurance that they can re-start ops there).

It's January, Bristol is on high ground on the western approaches, and must suffer a fair amount of rainfall at this time of year. So how long will it be before a solution is reached?

Finally, how did Luton manage to complete a similar exercise during the last few months without suffering the same problems?

This is a serious enquiry, not a poke at anyone.

[IMHO]

As Smile has indicated and the BBC are quoting that upto nine airlines
are refusing to operate thru BRS due to the runway - is this unprecedented?
LSG6753- you make some valid points - this is going to play havoc with operations every time the r/way is considered wet-
remember we're only in January.
Hope all parties come to a safe conclusion - IMHO

[Barnaby the Bear]

As Smile has indicated and the BBC are quoting that upto nine airlines

Sky News are quoting this forum! :}

[anoraknophobia]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in this case has someone cocked up big time? No work is being carried out on the resurfacing of the runway between 21 dec and 2nd jan,standard practice for the construction industry so this temporary runway surface has to be landed on for the best part of two weeks. As anyone who has read the Bristol postings on the rumours thread can see, bad weather at Bristol can be challenging for pilots at the best of times,but these latest incidents would seem to indicate a miscalulation in the timing of these works.Have commercial pressures,ie keeping the runway closed for the minimum time impacted on the work that can be achieved each night. The work is not scheduled to be completed till March so Winter 2007 could yet throw up some more nasties.
I wrote the above on the 30th of December,when no one else replied to the post I thought perhaps I had over reacted,but in the light of what has happened maybe not.
Merchant Venturer,I expect that at this very moment the owners of Bristol Airport are preparing a press release expressing full confidence in the M.D and as any Football manager knows that's just one step away from being shown the door.

[IB4138]

Have spent an hour this morning explaining to two people travelling AGP-BRS tomorrow, that the problem is not of Easyjet's making.

All they could do was slag off Easy and they are still not convinced! :ugh: :ugh:

[sean377]

the problem is not of Easyjet's making.
Maybe, maybe not? AFAIK, a centre section of the runway is slippery when wet and that aircraft handling difficulties may be experienced during crosswind conditions (from the NOTAMS). Yet some commercial traffic continues to operate without problem.
Perhaps rather than a blanket ban on operating out of BRS, it should be left to the Captains discretion, taking current conditions (wetness, wind, braking efficiency) that prevail at the time of arrival into consideration.

[fyrefli]

Maybe, maybe not? AFAIK, a centre section of the runway is slippery when wet and that aircraft handling difficulties may be experienced during crosswind conditions (from the NOTAMS). Yet some commercial traffic continues to operate without problem.

As has now been explained umpteen times, different aircraft, different parameters. Come on, you're a pilot! :)

Perhaps rather than a blanket ban on operating out of BRS, it should be left to the Captains discretion, taking current conditions (wetness, wind, braking efficiency) that prevail at the time of arrival into consideration.

Wouldn't exactly help customer relations, would it? You'd end up with a situation where most pilots would divert anyway but no-one would know where they were going to end up and the knock-on effect on the next flight on the aircraft concerned would cause chaos - "Well, it was coming here but then it diverted at the last minute. Can we get the passengers who're in Departures back out again and onto some coaches to the diversion airfield in time for a flight or not?" And then the next sector, and the next...

[sean377]

As has now been explained umpteen times
Umpteen times? Where?
different aircraft, different parameters.
So what makes CO's 757's and FR's 737's different?

[fyrefli]

Umpteen times? Where?

Originally R&N; this level of detail is also now available on the BBC Website, BBC Bristol Website, Sky News, ITV... :)

So what makes CO's 757's and FR's 737's different?

Are you concerned that EZY etc. stopped flying or that Ryanair etc. carried on? Apparently there has been a vid of a rather interesting Ryanair landing recently airing on Sky.

[Smile!!!]

Yes, saw it on ITV, the spray cming up from the bird, amazing, and then to CO flgiht, took up all the runway but I would say it slid on the centre section, unlike the Ryanair one wich you could see sliding.

[SAM-EMA]

Bristol Airport has announced on Sky News that the airport is shut until tomorrow afternoon while contractors sort out the problem.

SAM-EMA

[sean377]

Originally R&N;

Yes, I've just read the entire thread. Very interesting.

this level of detail is also now available on the BBC Website, BBC Bristol Website, Sky News, ITV... :)

Which is why I ended up on pprune - just in the wrong thread :ugh:
You cannot believe anything that the media has to say about aviation!

Are you concerned that EZY etc. stopped flying or that Ryanair etc. carried on? Apparently there has been a vid of a rather interesting Ryanair landing recently airing on Sky.

I am better informed having read the other thread. Never had any idea it was such a big problem. It was EJ's fiasco's this summer in NCL that initially made me think they may have had an ulterior motive. I stand corrected.

[johnrizzo2000]

The CO76 into BRs i showing delayed, and its ETA into BRS is after 10am, so when does the runway open?

[visibility3miles]

Airline boycott forces airport closure
From correspondents in London
January 08, 2007 04:39am
Article from: Reuters
AN airport in southwest England has closed its runway to speed up resurfacing work after 10 airlines suspended operations because of safety concerns.
Since Friday, 369 flights have been cancelled or diverted after the airlines, including low-cost operator easyJet, raised concerns over braking in wet conditions.

9 or 10 airlines, 369 flights. Whatever.

I was mislead by the press reports on the Indonesian aircrash, so I don't know how much credence to put into press reports.

[GBALU53]

Things seem to be a litte quite a the moment are the airport authorites still hopping to be operational by this afternoon??

Or is it another day of problems for the punters and airline operations??

[toledoashley]

British Airways Franchise Partner GB Airways has announced the adhoc cancellation of its Bristol to Tenerife South service on the following dates:
Bristol - Tenerife South (BA6834/35) Saturday service cancelled between 5 May and 27 October 2007.

Customers booked to travel on these services will be re-accommodated on BA6834/35 Bristol – Tenerife South on the Friday service, with the exception of passengers booked on BA6835 on 2 June 2007 and BA6834 on 26 May 2007 whose bookings will be cancelled.

[WATABENCH]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that although it's been a media frenzy that has not bode well for BRS, I really think that it'll all be forgotten about by pax very soon and business will be strong for BRS again this year.

At the end of the day it was a problem, and it's been sorted, after April the airport will not relay the runway for at least 10 years and only then will a little smidgen of a report show up on ITV West news with a much older looking Lisa Asiz commenting "well remember 2007 at BRS?" most people will say "uuughhhh no" "they were relaying the runway and it went tits up for a weekend" we will all think "ooooh yeah, that was well amusing" and that'll be it!

Time to move on now folks, every airline apart from XL is back running services from BRS, XL will probably be as of tomorrow and the airports and airlines will thrash out a suitable deal for the inconvienence caused, who knows it may even work out well if you have a think about it, why would an airline ask for a cash settlement when they could get a cheeky little deal on slots, landing fees or handling fees, thus enabling more flights!

I know for a fact the airline that I work for has a VERY good relationship with BRS and a hiccup like this would not put them off keeping BRS as a major base in our network.

Looking back, yes the airport was a bit slow on the uptake of how serious the situation had become, and I admit that I had a moan about it on prune, but they must of been pretty shell shocked to see 10 airlines in less than 24 hours not wanting to fly in or out, and as Tony Hallwood said in interviews yesterday that they had to seek CAA approval etc etc.... to put these grooves in the TEMPORARY surface, we all know deep down that this approval would of taken a while to come through.

Now lets get back to the usual discussion of CWL bashing! only messing I think CWL/BHX and EXT deserve a pat on the back and a round of applause as do the airline staff and ground handling agents in BRS :D :D
Monthly rant over, quite tame today I feel :}

[MerchantVenturer]

Hi W.

By coincidence my question about there being no such thing as bad publicity was put to the travel writer Simon Calder (he seems to have been as much in media evidence as Andrew Skipp in recent days) on today's BBC Bristol lunchtime tv news.

He came up with the idea that the whole country is now aware that Bristol is quite a busy airport with many flights which was not the national perception before all this happened. I take the point but does it mean any of these people living far from the west country would ever actually use BRS?

The way things are at the moment if a passenger falls down and twists his ankle getting off an aircraft the press will link it to the runway in some way -"Now passenger falls down near danger runway" sort of headline.

That cartoon reproduced in the R & N thread on the BRS situation is brilliant.

Today's Bristol Evening Post quotes 'industry sources' saying the airport will have lost around £500,000 as a result of the disruption. An easyJet spokeswoman said her airline will pay for the bussing of pax to the likes of CWL, BHX and LGW.

In the report Andrew Skipp admits, "Our communication with passengers has been bad. It should have been better". He also indicated that legal action was unlikely.

My considerable experience as a slf is that communication from airports/airlines in many places is often lacking; I would like to think that if nothing else this experience would concentrate the minds of those at BRS at least, but I won't hold my breath.

I have three rotations booked out of BRS in the next eight weeks. Fingers crossed the airport and its airlines have a smooth run for a while!!

[Standard Noise]

Speaking to one of my colleagues at Cardiff, he said he hadn't enjoyed being at work that much in ages. As much as we were a bit bereft of things to do, neither had we! Still, back to normal now, thank goodness.

[WATABENCH]

I see in the Newcastle thread that EK is starting DXB soon, good news for them but I'll be very suprised if the fill an A330 daily from there, would make a nice cheeky double drop with BRS I think :zzz: :zzz: sorry was dreaming there!With the works in the departure lounge to extend the business lounges and add more capacity I wonder if they're doing it in the hope it may attract airlines such as EK that have a large business cabin.

[Bristol_Traveller]

Oh dear; that's a shame that DXB went to NCL. I would have thought that would be another flagship route to go alongside EWR.

I'm not sure how much of the terminal expansion is aimed at us "business travellers". We tend to be awfully bad at spending money in shops and cafes, generally preferring to turn up 10 minutes before gate closes (boarding pass already printed out at home) and race to the plane.

I understand that BA's Terraces lounge is getting the chop? With the future of Flybe's aspirations at Bristol still somewhat uncertain, I wouldn't be embarking on a lounge extension plan at the moment. You might find the only lounge passengers are from the EWR flight each day (12 of them) and a handful of KLM, SN and "Priority Pass". (Although I guess you can also book directly and add them to package tours).

[MerchantVenturer]

The master plan contains a forecast that a Dubai route (one of only four long-haul scheduled routes for which it is thought there would be demand from the Bristol catchment) would be carrying 120,000 pax per annum by 2015.

I suppose BRS would prove a problem at the moment as Emirates seem to be using A330 equipment which I assume could not make Dubai non-stop with a full payload (with any payload?) off the rolling hills of Broadfield Down.

It seems that before 2015 there will be flights to Dubai from many regional airports if its hedonistic outlets continue to spring up at the current rate of knots, let alone onward transfers from there with Emirates.

I’ve been reading with interest the debate on the CWL thread re rail connections.

Given that any rail link to BRS would be prohibitively expensive to build and would be a shuttle that required a change of train at Temple Meads, I wonder whether the Flyer service is not a better option anyway for a ‘rail-locked’ airport like BRS.

The Flyer service, operated by 50-seat First Coaches on behalf of the airport, runs every fifteen minutes from/to Temple Meads Station from early to late (although frequency drops to a 30-minute one from mid evening) and it is possible to book through-rail journeys direct to/from the airport using the coach for the last/first bit, a 25-minute journey.

As Temple Meads is on a main-line railway ‘crossroads’ with regular services in all directions it means access can be gained from many areas. Any arriving rail passengers at TM can be sure of an ongoing connection to the airport within a few minutes.

Bristol Airport is shown as a station in First Great Western’s list of stations on its web site and the Flyer appears on TM station’s arrival and departure screens.

It seems increasingly popular and frequency was increased a few months ago, with the next step being a ten-minute frequency for much of the day and evening.

The Flyer accounts for 5% of passengers (currently around 285,000) using the airport each year, and the airport’s stated aim is to get public transport use up to 13% by the time 9 million annual pax are reached, with the Flyer carrying the bulk.

[fyrefli]

The Flyer service, operated by 50-seat First Coaches on behalf of the airport, runs every fifteen minutes from/to Temple Meads Station from early to late (although frequency drops to a 30-minute one from mid evening) and it is possible to book through-rail journeys direct to/from the airport using the coach for the last/first bit, a 25-minute journey.
As Temple Meads is on a main-line railway ‘crossroads’ with regular services in all directions it means access can be gained from many areas. Any arriving rail passengers at TM can be sure of an ongoing connection to the airport within a few minutes.

They bloomin' well can't, you know. First need to get their act sorted because several times recently, the most recent being last Sunday, I've personally seen people not be able to get on the flyer because it's full - and I'm talking in both directions. It's annoying when it's full at BIA; it's just not acceptable when people making connections have to wait half an hour at BTM. Trying to get on at one of the intermediate stops is a complete lottery. First are walking a very fine line and we've all seen recently how easily you can suddenly end up on the wrong side of acceptable.

And I speak as very much a Flyer evangelist and regular long-term customer.

[MerchantVenturer]

fyrefli

I've seen pax left behind at the airport at busy times but never at the station and I'm there at least once a week.

There is invariably a group of anything from six to thirty people waiting at the TM Flyer stop for the next coach. Clearly from what you say, at other times there are far more than this.

I know what you are saying about First's bus and train services in and around Bristol but the Flyer service is supposed to be run for the airport so they should be cracking the whip to get things working properly.

I spoke to Mr Skipp about a previous general problem with the Flyer. He was very sympathetic and clearly anxious to sort it out with the coach operator.

I suppose the fact that the coach is sometimes full at the station end reinforces my view that the Flyer service is popular and viable as a means of getting rail pax to the airport, but it must operate efficiently or people will cease to use it.

[fyrefli]

I've seen pax left behind at the airport at busy times but never at the station and I'm there at least once a week.

In fairness, I've only seen it happen twice in that direction but it's pretty critical for passengers when it does. IMHO, if the service is to grow any further, they are likely to need a real-time method of appraising demand and a spare coach available, at least at certain times, possibly at both ends of the journey.

The other thing that infuriates me is seeing new arrivals to Bristol habitually greeted by a harrassed driver with no change. I realise that they can't turn the coaches into Bureaux de Change but the now familiar experience of the other passengers rooting around for notes and coins so that some poor travelling soul can be spared the indignity of being sent back into the terminal to scavenge the correct money, sometimes to the tune of "You've got two minutes, my love" or similar, needs to be addressed.

This is normally at the airport end; I'm sure it wouldn't be beyond the wit of the company to come to some arrangement with the airport whereby a member of staff relieves the driver of his ticketing role at that end, or is simply on hand for each coach departure to bank some takings and refresh the "float".

As they also need to manage the queue better at busy times, as I've seen at least one substantial disagreement, selling the tickets in the terminal is perhaps going to be the way to kill several birds with one stone.

I suppose the fact that the coach is sometimes full at the station end reinforces my view that the Flyer service is popular and viable as a means of getting rail pax to the airport, but it must operate efficiently or people will cease to use it.

Indeed.

[terrier23]

forgive me if I am wrong but the case used to be that you could buy tickets for the flyer at the airport information desk.

Moving on Weston MP John Penrose has now been asking for a flyer dervice between the airport and one of westons rail lines. I heard not to long ago that Worle Parkway station was going to be redeveloped as a major station for both Buses and Trains and there would be regular services to and from BIA.

Also must admit Im very dissapointed the NWI service has been dropped looks like ASW seem to be having a bit of a re think regarding using BRS as a large hub, god Knows why not with BE and BA disapearing there is a large gap to fill, maybe not big enough for EZY but ample for ASW. Also hearing that FC are throwing extra weight behind CWL. BRS management, although very talented need to pull there fingers out and stop sitting and living the past. I mean if they have anymore incedents like we saw a couple of weeks ago they may see a big orange bus fly into the distance and not return and we all know what that means.

[MerchantVenturer]

Hi terrier,

The Weston Area Development Framework proposes major traffic infrastructure developments between Weston/Worle and the M5.

The Greater Bristol Strategic Transport Study has identified a new strategic road link between Weston and Bristol via BIA. However, this is a highly contentious issue and is one of several new road suggestions put forward in the GBSTS, a number of which concern access to BIA from various parts of the city-region (to use the latest government-speak).

Worle Station has been identified as a park and ride site and also a transport interchange.

The Area Development Framework suggests a high-quality 20-minute frequency bus service from Weston via Worle Station to BIA if these proposals come to fruition.

In its master plan the airport says that the strength of such a route would depend on the ability of Worle Station to take high-speed trains, with particular reference to platform lengths.

I emphasise that these proposals are nowhere near certain to happen and I have my doubts about Worle as a rail interchange for the airport anyway.

Whether main line train operators would stop there regularly must be open to doubt. I suggested Parson Street station to the airport for a similar role a year or two ago and they said no main line trains would stop there. It is on the same main line between Bristol and Exeter as Worle.

And if it did happen how many rail passengers would use it to access the airport? Only those coming from Bridgwater/Taunton and further west would reach Worle before Bristol TM.

All other rail passengers would reach TM first. Why would they stay on the train or, in many cases, change trains to board a Flyer at Worle when they could do so at TM where the road journey time would be about the same as that from Worle?

Of course, it may be that Weston people travelling to the airport would use a dedicated bus or Flyer service in reasonable numbers.

The airport master plan discusses Flyer-type options from other places in and around Bristol including Bath, Parkway, Clevedon/Portishead and Nailsea & Backwell station.

I note the Welsh Assembly leader is talking again about an M 4 link to CWL. An M 5 link to BRS would be no longer in length but I doubt there is the political will this side of the Channel.

BTW, I thought Penrose MP was against further BRS expansion.

On another matter, I came across this US newspaper link re the BRS-EWR service.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4478763.html

It discusses the history and future of this route and CO’s strategy in serving smaller European airports.

The report also says that the airport has suspended landing fees for the first three years. Presumably this is the so-called ‘subsidy’ that others have spoken of in the past in connection with this route.

[Harry the Hound]

Where the buggery flip did you find that report MV??? Nice one though, a very interesting report strait(as it were) from the CO horses mouth, basically as i've read it, the BRS route is of high importance to them for their future strategy of serving smaller european cities with 757-200s to offer something the other US carriers dont, and the route has helped them immensly due to not being able to secure LHR slots, and is doing well for them, all sounds tickedy boo with CO to me :D

[WATABENCH]

FCA Longhaul starts tomorrow!
FCA58 BRS-SFB(via MAN of course), G-OOAN B767 operating, STD 10:20. Not a bad start 222 pax booked up to yesterday, a/c holds 256.
Lets hope all 3 SFB/POP/VRA go well and become great routes for FCA, BRS and the south west as a whole, everybody has been wanting these routes for so long now, lets hope they get behind it and get booking, this old phrase comes to mind; "USE IT OR LOSE IT" :ok:

[hostiegirl]

good luck to all at fca brs/man hope longhaul is a big sucess from brs and long may it continue cancun route next please!!! xl has their 767 popping in to say hello in april however it's bound for lourdes so nowhere exotic!:ok:

[Standard Noise]

Well if the eejits at XL ops don't stop fannying about, it'll be lucky to reach the end of the taxiway never mind bloody Lourdes! Tw*ts!

[crackling jet]

any date for xl 767 at BRS

[caaardiff]

FCA Longhaul starts tomorrow!
FCA58 BRS-SFB(via MAN of course), G-OOAN B767 operating, STD 10:20. Not a bad start 222 pax booked up to yesterday, a/c holds 256.

I saw this on the website deps board, but its not there today. Also no arrival/dep on SFB site.
How did it go? (Did it go???)

[cym]

Given the figs above that represents a Load Factor of only 86.7% which is poor for long haul given that flights costs are a greater % of total (especially if you have to pay for a tech stop in MAN).

Will need to do better going forward.....

[Skipness One Echo]

I have searched on google without luck so can some helpful fellow point me in the direction of a Bristol Airport movements site?
MTIA

[crackling jet]

yes it did operate, and went well. the same next week, then the return sectors kick in the following week. next month the cuba and dom rep series start up operations sat-sun-mon, i/b tues pos o/b to EMA

[bycrewlgw]

'I have searched on google without luck so can some helpful fellow point me in the direction of a Bristol Airport movements site?
MTIA'


Try this mate. It has some MAYFLYS etc so maybe what you're looking for.

http://apron.bristolairport.com/

[WATABENCH]

CYM - A load factor of 87% isn't good? sorry have to disagree with you CYM, lets not forget this is the first flight, and Premium was full, I imagine the bosses at FC and BRS would count that as a success, lets not forget that the average CO load factor is less than that and according to MV's brilliant post with attatchment earlier in this thread they're very happy with it.
CO took a little while to become established and so will FCA longhaul, I expect you'll find the load factor will be less on quite a few of the winter longhauls, but at the end of the day it's paving the way for FCA 's 787 to come to BRS.
I dont understand how you would be dissapointed with a load factor like that especially when your money making cabin is chocca :confused:
Crackling Jet - Just to clarify your post, the POP goes out fortnightly starting next week, not next month and the VRA starts in May not March me ol mukka :ok:
MV - Spot on post as usual but the winter flights werent released til bout Sept, 2-3 months after the initial launch, not leaving very long to sell it :ok:

[crackling jet]

watabench,

thanks for that, misread the schedule, must have got carried away with exitement :ok:

[WATABENCH]

Just to add to my earlier post, the FCA EMA-SFB going out today, 1st of season but an established route for FCA and has been flown for 3-4 years now has a booked figure of 217, the EMA-CUN that went yesterday had a booked figure of 222 and again is a well established FCA route, so I'd say the 1st BRS longhaul route held it's own even with going via MAN, also the 1 off BRS-CUN in OCT went full :ok:

[cym]

Yeild / Load Factor Management paid my mortgate for most of my professional life for one of the largest UK Tour ops so am very familiar with this field.

Comaprisions with schedules carries are largely invalid in this area. Inclusive tour combines cost elements, hotels, transfers etc as well as substancially higher cost of sale, eg brochures, higher agents commission etc etc that do not apply to the shed sector. Margins on premium seats are 'icing' not 'cake'

In winter, in my experience with long haul you need to be looking at load factors of 90- 92% (on the flight element) and acceptable yield levels for a route to be viable in the long term. New routes that attract high levels of (free) publicity tend to be forwarded loaded so would have expected a high lf on this service - especially given that as the CWL services dont start until late Mar so FCA have a captive ex CWL market too. Once direct flights ex CWL are available how attractive will a via MAN service be?

Time will tell, the CAA route stats will be interesting......

[WATABENCH]

CYM, I agree the stats will be interesting reading and yes charters do tend to need to keep a higher yield than schedules, but lets not forget that 87% load factor on a flight thats only been on sale for only 5 months and ops via MAN, and was the first of the season isn't bad at all, the premium pax will be paying approx £180 extra per person on SFB or £300 on a VRA which equates to an extra £11k on a SFB or nearly £19k on VRA a welcome boost to any charter operator.
Once the CWL flights start it will be interesting, I personally think that it will hold its own, however we know that some of the flights from BRS will have shared loads with MAN/EMA so the stats will not prove very conclusive, the only way we will really know is to wait until April when next summers brochures come out, if they still have BRS-SFB/VRA/POP we'll know its been doing good enough for FC.
I've been management in a travel agency as well as worked for a BIG charter airline, in my experiance I dont recall (and this is the gods honest truth) ever booking a passanger from the south west from CWL-SFB/MCO, most people in the BRS/South west dont see CWL as an option for the US, although some must for the flights to be maintained in CWL, people that i've seen over the last 10 years would rather go to LGW and hop on VS or BA as apposed to MYT OR TRAVELCITY as they know they will get a far better service.
The FCA economy inflight service is now being hailed as better or as good as economy in VS/BA, both by passangers, reporters and pruners, coupled that with the strong FC retail influence in the South west it has the hallmarks of doing well.
248 booked on SFB this week at the moment, 8 from being full, PREM full again.
Did the TOM longhaul not ops via MAN? I'm 99% sure the CWL-POP did, what abouth the others?
200 booked on POP operating next week so far.
Watch this space i guess :ok:

[airvanman]

....most people in the BRS/South west dont see CWL as an option for the US.

WATABENCH

That will put you off the Christamas card list with our friends over the Mud! :}

[WATABENCH]

In the words of our greatest Bristolian symbol of the future (Vicky Pollard) Shaaauut Up, Yer but No but Yer but I ain bovered and aint dun nuffin or nobody, oh my god soooo cant believe you just said that! :} :}

[hostiegirl]

i think for a first flight those loads are good considering it's out of season as-well and if star class premium cabin is full thats a great start!.one of our crew been working for fca travel shop in winter said bookings really strong on this route for the summer so long may it continue!
crackling jet i'll see if i can get exact date for you!:ok:

[Stall-Warner]

Having watched snow clearing operations from the terminal at BRS this morning, I was amazed to see how long it took to get the runway clear of snow and back to the blacktop.

Is it simply my lack of patience, or did anyone else feel it took an extraordinary length of time to get a fairly small runway open?
ugh:
SW

[lukeylad]

Well you have to remeber that the runway will need to be de iced and checked for FOD. What would you rather have a quick job not done well which leads to a plane skidding off the runway or a well done job that gets it open and all flights running safley.

[haughtney1]

I operated into Ivalo (Finland) about a month ago.......in far worse conditions than at BRS today..the RWY took 10 mins to clear:ok:

UK airports as a rule struggle with adverse winter weather because they don't make the investment in adequate equipment. Thats the problem in a nutshell.

[Air Hop]

For the amount of snow that the southern half of the UK sees each year, can it really be justified to have snow equipment parked up and doing nothing during the rest of the year. Surely the money is better invetsted in equipment that is used all year and then retain minimum snow equipment.

So long as the job can be achieved and achieved safely that MUST be the essential.

[lukeylad]

Snow gear has a use when its not snowing. Use them for Boxing in an airlines aircraft that havn't payed there fees to the airport. Flyjet for example last year with there 767.

[jetstream7]

Snow gear has a use when its not snowing. Use them for Boxing in an airlines aircraft that havn't payed there fees to the airport. Flyjet for example last year with there 767.
Care to back the Flyjet part of that quote up with some facts Lukeylad....?
For starters.. date, place, nature of debt, and size of it...

[Vasto1M]

The second Sanford departed today; with a load factor of 99.22% (just 2 empty seats).

[Stall-Warner]

I have heard from Airport Ops that one of the senior airport management team has resigned - but no names given.

Anyone heard anything or have I been spun one...?

[mrloop]

The BBC are running this about the runway issues:

"Seven incidents concerning Bristol Airport's runway were reported this winter before it finally shut after an airline boycott, the BBC has learned."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6353065.stm

[EGCA]

Just reverting back to the earlier problems of the newly resurfaced/ungrooved section of runway (yep, I appreciate it was not necessarily the final top coat...etc), can I ask how the runway resurfacing is now progressing?
Are they pressing on with the night time work and how well is it going?

Thanks

EGCA

[Standard Noise]

Indeed, only six more weeks of resurfacing to go, hurrah! Still, taxilane Z is up and running again, ahead of expectations (glad I've been on leave for most of that.) Maybe we can start shifting some planes at our normal rate again, but not too many, don't want to be giving BIA's marketing people carte blanche here!

[EGCA]

Thanks for the info.

Appreciated

EGCA

[pipertommy]

Hi,i was wondering if the Bacon base in Bristol will become a Flybe base ie same routes different airline?What plans do Flybe have for Bristol?Thanks.

[pipertommy]

Thanks.Interesting times for Flybe then.You would think early promotion of routes would be taking place before the pax start using other carriers.Thanks again:)

[Vasto1M]

The nightstop plan on the next generation airline site suggests two based 145’s through until at least October 2007. Not sure when that was published though or if it still is the plan. Rumour suggests the based aircraft would do some European flying while the EDI/GLA routes would be retained but using EDI/GLA based aircraft.

[WATABENCH]

New Luxor route announced today with TOM, maybe they're guna stay put for a bit and not leave as per recent rumours, whoever put the advert on the BRS website should be shot though.... Pictures of the Pyramids to announce a Luxor route???? Where are the Pyramids......Cairo! Doh Schoolboy error :}

[CentreFix25]

Was thinking of the TCX/MYT come together, which i assume will mean a TCX base for BRS. I wonder how this will effect FCA? cant imagine the new TCX will sub out flying if they are going to have a base. And if TCX take back their flying from FCA, will they go tit-for-tat and take back their flying at NCL?

[WATABENCH]

Centrefix - Its definatly going to be interesting times ahead for both FCA/TCX, FC shops have already de-racked all Thomas cook, Airtours and Thomson brochures and replaced them with Olympic, Cosmos and Kosmar!
I imagine its a bit late to do anything for sharing on flights for this summer, BRS is a strong base for FC so I imagine they'll keep the same 2x757s in summer, and the 767 wouldn't be effected as it's only FC hols passangers on there anyway.
Maybe a cheeky little 320 at NCL for FCA, who knows, what will be interesting though is to see if FCA's leasing of a/c with Skyservice Canada in both directions continues or not?

[SAM-EMA]

Interesting to see that the BA/GB flight to TFS today is operating with Airbus A321 G-TTID. Loads must be excellent for them to upsize for today.

SAM-EMA

[regularpassenger]

I see that BBC local TV news (Points West) are reporting an Easyjet aborted a landing yesterday due to the slippery runway issue having reappeared....

Alledgedly the captain said that he had to delay landing until the runway was a little drier.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6379213.stm

[MerchantVenturer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6379213.stm

The above links to a BBC report concerning the easyJet flight from BFS to BRS last night.

It circled before landing and an MP on board asserts that pax were told the reason was the wet runway condition.

The MP told the press, ".........then the captain came on and said 'you've obviously heard about the difficulties they've had in Bristol. We've been advised it wouldn't be safe to land if it's too wet and as there's been a bit of a very heavy downpour, we can't land just yet as we have to wait for the runway to dry off.' "

This story was given the main lead on the Bristol BBC and ITV local televison news shows this evening.

The MP was interviewed live at his home and maintained his story despite rebuttals from the airport and airline who say the aircraft circled before landing because of strong winds and rain. easyJet suggested the MP may have misunderstood what was said by the captain.

In one of the local tv interviews the MP said he believed this showed the runway was not safe and pax lives may be being put in danger.

One of the tv interviewers said that easyJet had cautioned the MP to be very careful about what he was saying.

BBC Bristol Tv News said another pax had contacted them to support the MP's version of what the pax were told by the pilot.

Seems odd because since the airport re-opened there have been a number of days when it has rained hard and, AFAIK, this has not prevented any aircraft landing. Obviously, strong cross winds are a different matter.

Some of the local Conservative MPs are against expansion and I don't know whether this Tory MP has joined the bandwaggon on the day when the airport's master plan is being debated by the local authority, amidst a groundswell of opposition from a consortium of disparate groups.

However, I would be very surprised if even an MP would go so far as to issue blatant lies in this manner.

[caaardiff]

New Luxor route announced today with TOM, maybe they're guna stay put for a bit and not leave as per recent rumours,

Just had a look through the TOM website timetable. Shows at least one flight a day through W07/08, and flight times show a base.

Had a look at LBA and STN too
LBA's base appears to end before S07 starts, so thats the end for them it seems,
but STN is still showing a based a/c through S07.
So who knows whats going on in the fantastic 'World' of TUI!

[Standard Noise]

I would be very surprised that even an MP would go so far as to issue blatant lies in this manner
Well, it does come naturally to them, but it's quite possible the pilot's comments were just misunderstood because they weren't actually in clear enough grammar.

Put it this way, I'm flying from BRS - BFS on Saturday and back again on Monday, both with Easyjet. If I thought there was a problem with the runway I wouldn't be going from Britol, I'd be off up to Brum or Eefrow.

Easyjet are prolly just blaming the recent events to justify the delay to the pax. It's possible that their pilots are not capable of using any runway of that length if it's been assessed as 'wet/wet/wet' or they have changed their SOPs since December because of what happened, just to try and show that they are safer than safe. If so, it doesn't show any confidence in the airport even though Easyjet's own Ops people assessed the runway as perfectly safe.

[MonkeyB]

The TOM winter 07/08 programme has been on sale for months, including Luxor.

I would expect Thomson to take into account the likely impact of the MYT TCX merger as part of thier base review. They may smell Firch Choice blood and decide to expand at BRS - TCX buy a lot of seats off FCA. On the other hand they may well move the 757 to CWL, which is doing quite nicely for them, and buy seats of other carriers - FCA will have a few going spare!

Those of us who aren't senior managers at TOM will ahve to wait a while to find out.

MB

[Harry the Hound]

Wonder why the airport have just put LXR as a new destination when its been on sale for a while? maybe they and TOM were waiting to see how well it sold, I remember reading a few weeks ago in a trade paper that Cosmos were very keen to expand services BRS, as they hardly have any at the moment, perhaps if FC shops already have their brochures on shelves in place of TC brochures, and they're keen to expand in BRS a nice little tie up with FCA for seats could be just what Cosmos are looking for!

[mathers_wales_uk]

On Saturday there were two diversions on Saturday from BRS to CWL for BA Connect i was told by a colleague today. The 1st one had landed without calling up and no notification from BA. Captain called on the ground and was pretty p'd off after sitting on ground for 10 mins without anyone approching the a/c. All appologies were given from Aviance ops and explained that he wasn't expected and that somone would be with him as soon as possible.

Aviance ops then contacted BA to ask why wasn't they informed of the diversion, the reply was 'Didn't BRS phone you to let you know?' ' Well that was very naughty of them.' He then went on to say theres another one on the way to you. Aviance ops then went on to say that there were problems with Tech a/c at CWL and were not able to handle it as there were no facilities or staff available. Thats ok he said tell him to divert to BHX as thats where the a/c was going next.

Aviance operations contacted ATC to tell them to inform the BA Connect a/c to go to BHX instead because of the probs at CWL. Captains reply was 'Sod that im 5 minutes away and i'm coming in.'

Apparently he had all but praise for CWL for friendlyness of staff and that they had allready ordered the busses by the time the passengers were in the terminal.

Is this signs of BA Connect being frustrated with insecurity of their future?
And what were the reason of the diverts to CWL from BRS?

[WATABENCH]

FCA Longhaul must be selling ok, SFB and POP on sale for next winter, again starting in FEB, with the POP moving to weekly :D

[Harry the Hound]

Just been talking to some passangers in the terminal this morning who've travelled from Mansfield (nr EMA) to get on the SFB flight, they said they needed to fly on a weekend, couldn't get anything available from the Midlands and didn't want the hassle of MAN/LGW, just shows how far people are prepared to travel to go longhaul, and that BRS is now maybe being considered as an alternative to other larger airports by both travel agents and passangers in other areas of the country.

[AirLCY]

EasyJet is to start daily Bristol-Milan Malpensa service from 23rd April. It is forecasting carrying up to 100,000 passengers on the route in the first 12 months of operation. The carrier has also announced it will increase frequency on its Bristol-Paris service to double daily from October.
Air Transport Intelligence, 26 February

[airhumberside]

Is BRS getting an extra based aircraft or will these extra flights be fitted into the existing schedule?

[MerchantVenturer]

airhumberside,

Looking at the flight schedule it seems the MXP flights will be operated by Italian-based machines - dep MXP 0715, arr BRS 0825, dep BRS 0850, arr MXP 1155, slightly different timings at weekends (all times local).

The second CDG does not start until the winter season.

BRS is to get another based 319 this summer (the tenth) but there are already additional flights/extra rotations compared to last summer so it may be the new 319 is already fully utilised in the timetable.

Some of us wondered how long it would be before someone stepped in to replace the rumoured to-be-axed BACon routes, assuming the Flybe takeover goes ahead, and it hasn't taken easyJet long to get in on the MXP.

They may have done anyway of course because they have rained on Flybe's BRS parade in the past leading to BE pulling routes from Lulsgate in the face of Orange competition.

[Morrihell]

Looking at the flight schedule it seems the MXP flights will be operated by Italian-based machines - dep MXP 0715, arr BRS 0825, dep BRS 0850, arr MXP 1155, slightly different timings at weekends (all times local).
A tad early as a departure from MXP if you're doing a quick break but easier than flying into Pisa and out of Venice or Rome with TrenItalia filling in the missing bits. Milan's well worth a visit and the route's a welcome addition to the EZY route network at BRS. BA to MXP was never "cheap" when looking 3/4 weeks ahead to book a flight.
MH.

[cesare]

New route MXP-BRS is on sale only for 3 months from 23/04 to 19/07. Why?
From the middle of July what's happen?

[WATABENCH]

Anybody any idea why there was a Martinair A320 in today?

[GrahamK]

WATABENCH, subbing for KLM by any chance?

[redfield]

Martinair was a subcharter for KLM. They've been in three times in the last few weeks, along with a Transavia 738 the other day as well. The KLM Fokker fleet is suffering from low availability or something like that, ergo all the subcharters. Might be a few more yet!

[mathers_wales_uk]

There was a Memo sent around to KLM handling agents last week, announcing that at the moment KLM are experiencing a lot of technical difficulties in their fleet of Fokkers. (even though this has been going on for at least a month).

Every day there is a list of deffects sent to their handling agents which usually consists of approx 15 registrations of a/c ranging from the F-50 right up to the F-100 (and thats just Fokker A/c thats operating).

They have warned that these will cause delays and possible cancellations to their flights but hopefully will be resolved soon.

I'm not sure of how many a/c if any that re currently out of service, and i know that no martinair a/c has come into CWL operating on behalf of KLM.

[Harry the Hound]

The MXP route now confirms BRS as EZY's 2nd biggest UK base with 33 destinations, LTN has 32, STN 25 and LGW 37.
Infact unless I'm much mistaken, it actually makes BRS EZY's 2nd biggest base in Europe as well!
Good work!

[Kellycsi]

Does anybody know how well the flights to Stockholm are selling, I have booked and I know couple of friends who have also booked and I am hoping that it will do well enough to encourage SAS to give us something a little more permanent.

[WATABENCH]

Nice weather today, has made some great viewing, intresting approaches and landings, Crabbing galore!

[Flightrider]

Route is being operated to Bristol because easyJet can't get Gatwick slots to continue the early morning Milan-Gatwick-Milan rotation flown during the winter. They have put on sale only up to mid July in the hope that slots at Gatwick materialise through late fall-out at Gatwick to be able to reinstate the service from there.

[anoraknophobia]

Following the takeover of BA Connect by Flybe, the rationlisation of the fleet based at Bristol will almost be immediate. As of the 12th of March only two aircraft wiil be based at Bristol.

[L G Double-Yew]

If they are only going to have two based aircraft, anyone know which routes they are keeping? GLA, EDI and CDG all have peak morning/evening schedules, so presumably one (or more) of these must be getting the chop?

[anoraknophobia]

The flights to be kept at least for the moment,are CDG,EDI,GLA,FRA,DUS.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Four A/C diverted to Cardiff yet again due to heavy rain and crosswinds. This time it was 3 EasyJets and a KLM (Operated by Transavia).

Two of the EasyJets fuelled and went after an hour on the ground at CWL. The other Easyjet and the KLM both offloaded their passengers and positioned empty. Eazy to BRS and Transavia to AMS.

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

These diversions were probably to do with the weather or are some airlines still cautious about the runway surface, and when or hast it been finished yet?

[mathers_wales_uk]

i know the runway closure is at 12:30, im sure it used to be at 11:30, i'm not sure how long they have left though i think i heard the end of March.

[cesare]

You are sure about these?
Here in Milan we think about MXP-LGW cut frequency is due to bad load factor.

[Morrihell]

Four A/C diverted to Cardiff yet again due to heavy rain and crosswinds. This time it was 3 EasyJets and a KLM (Operated by Transavia).
Two of the EasyJets fuelled and went after an hour on the ground at CWL. The other Easyjet and the KLM both offloaded their passengers and positioned empty. Eazy to BRS and Transavia to AMS
Yet again? When was the last time, many weeks ago....
EZY6048/6074/6114 diverted to Cardiff as did KLM1053, all after holding for some time over BRS, RYR1138 went to Bournemouth and BA just gave up...
Easyjet didn't cancel any flights despite the disruption although a 737 came in from Luton to cover the afternoon Madrid flight.
:D for at least one airline.
MH

[caaardiff]

Another hectic day at BRS. Ezy6074 (ALC) was the only easy to position back with pax on board.
Majority of EZY flights suffered bad delays, but they managed to keep it together, and as stated without cancelling flights. Luckily most of the delayed ones (including TCX from ACE but not KM(XL) SSH-BRS) managed to make tonights curfew (extended to 0030 rather than 0000) Most weekdays are still 2300 curfew.
I believe today was down to heavy rain and cross winds. It seems there may still be some caution linguring from past situations.
I think the end of March is the date of completion - if anyone can confirm this?
Easy had a 737 in on Sat also to operate the MAD, due to tech 319. That also ended up at CWL due to missing the curfew.
Ref BA cancellations, not surprising, the weather is a better excuse for them than the usual cancellations of late(no crews etc)
And it seems KLM are still having on going problems with their Fokker fleet judging by the Transavia charter. Do they have imediate plans for a short-term fix?

[Marco491]

Suppose I am not the only one still up in the air on what new routes will emerge and what old routes will be scrapped following the Flybe/Bacon take-over? (As it turns out "up in the air" is where I won't have to be for a few weeks, luckily).

In particular every couple of weeks I commute FRA-BRS-FRA, before pushing further SW in a hire car, but today I see a new FRA route from... erm... don't know the code... Southampton.

Can't imagine Flybe would maintain both? Personally I would have preferred the BRS route to switch to EXE (sorry BRS), but Southampton looks even worse. That's virtually London, for heaven's sake. Until they can convince me they have a sustainable offer I guess I will be flying to LHR and then driving for four hours (make that five by the time you're out of the terminal and over to the perimeter) instead of two. Add an hour on for unexpected traffic problems on the way back and it becomes ridiculous.

Was hit by a cancellation at BRS recently and was bussed to LHR; so may as well do it by choice, in comfort and for a cheaper fare :rolleyes:

[Red Snake]

I didn't see BRS-FRA on the scrapped list (MUC, MXP, ZUR are to be cut from next week) so I think that's still OK - for now. But Flybe have never shown any commitment to BRS, so I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

[devon_guy]

However if you look at the route map on Flybe's website all the Bristol routes remain, strange!

[WATABENCH]

Lets just hope things work out as best they can for all the affected BA staff both on the ground and crew, I know what it's like to have uncertainty with regards to your job and the future, what they've put up with for the last few months is not very nice at all (I've just come through a very similar situation), in some respects I expect they're glad it all finally seems to be coming to an end.
Good Luck to you all, and all the best for your future careers whether they be at Flybe, Servisair or elsewhere, To see our countrys flag carrier all but dissapear from BRS is a sad day :uhoh:

[Flightrider]

Yes, sure about the easyJet thing.

It does rather look as though the Flybe take-over is bad news for Bristol. The Bristol routes don't appear in any of the Flybe PR stuff and it looks as though they are being completely cut - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Paris, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Zurich, Milan, Munich - all gone. Suspiciously, new services from Southampton and Cardiff to Paris have appeared (using the BRS slots) and a new link between SOU and Frankfurt is included.

[Marco491]

Agreed. I may not like the uncertainty of having my precious travel plans potentially messed up for the nth time, but I appreciate it is nothing compared with what these people have been put through.

I have always found the Ba Connect ground staff and crews very pleasant, helpful and professional - really flying the flag even if BA itself didn't seem to care - so I hope they all manage to find decent alternatives.

[Red Snake]

Flybe's route map has been updated today on their website. For BRS, it shows GLA, EDI, DUS, FRA, CDG, JER. The former BA Connect routes are in red.

[a1234]

I have to say it is surprising that they've kept GLA, EDI and CDG because surely now that Easy have upgraded that to twice daily and whenever I've been on the domestic routes they have been pretty empty as people usually look straight to Easy.

[Red Snake]

it is surprising that they've kept GLA, EDI and CDG

Yes, that really surprises me also. Our loads are often terrible on GLA / EDI, yet they've been pretty good on MXP / MUC. OK, I don't know what the yields are, but it seems to me that the routes with no competition have been cut & routes left can be dominated by easyJet.

The cynic in me thinks that the slots are to be used for Flybe approved airports, not BRS. And cancelling routes already served by another airline doesn't attract bad press - BA gets the rap for the current route cancellations, Flybe are squeaky clean for the future ones.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I'm wondering what happened to the (sabre-rattling?) talk from Lufthansa about coming out to open up a new regional base? I assumed there was some brinkmanship going on, but now that the German routes from Bristol are virtually decimated, now's the time to show a hand if you're going to.

The FRA and DUS routes staying open does look like slot hogging, particularly as Flybe had be trying to snag FRA slots for a while for SOU.

I've had to rebook inlaws (from MUC) and find alternate routes for others, and I'm finding myself using LCY and LHR to get out to Germany, Switzerland now.

I always maintained that dead-end routes operated in the middle of the day were the most insane way of trying to serve the GSA. I'm in two minds about what's more annoying; using KL to hub through AMS, or trolling down the M4.

[a1234]

Yes it does look like they are just holding on for now, but why for EDI and GLA? Surely they would have been better off keeping MXP, there is something going on regarding todays announcements and I think there has to be more in this.

As for munich wouldn't be surprised at all to see Easy move in on this one. But I would doubt Lufthansa moving in yet, although they did mention BRS and CWL in the press release months back.

[Vasto1M]

Problems again tonight?

4 EZY’s diverted to CWL (inbound from NCL, CIA, MJV & ALC) and 5 heading to EMA (inbounds from GLA, EDI, SXF, TLS & AGP).

Just the one based aircraft (the inbound VCE) sitting at Bristol tonight. Could make for an interesting first wave in the morning!

[smellster]

Could be something to do with:


EGGD 052320Z 19027G37KT 9999 RA BKN009 09/08 Q0995=
EGGD 052250Z 19027G39KT 9999 RA BKN008 09/08 Q0995=
EGGD 052220Z 19027G42KT 9999 RA SCT009 SCT012 09/07 Q0996=
EGGD 052150Z 19027G39KT 7000 RA SCT010 BKN018 08/07 Q0997=
EGGD 052120Z 19026G36KT 6000 RA SCT015 BKN027 08/07 Q0998=
EGGD 052050Z 20025G36KT 6000 RA SCT015 BKN027 08/06 Q0999=
EGGD 052020Z 20026G39KT 7000 -RA SCT015 BKN027 09/07 Q1000=
EGGD 051950Z 20022G33KT 6000 RA SCT015 BKN025 09/07 Q1000=

and our 25kt (incl gusts) crosswind limit on a wet Bristol runway.
Glad I'm not on earlies tomorrow!

[mathers_wales_uk]

When i left CWL 1am this morning there were 3 a/c closed up and the 4th had returned back to ramp after being told the weather in scotland. It still had intentions of going.

This might mean they will be missing out the first sector of either Gla or Edi.

[Marco491]

Bristol Traveller you should try trolling down the M4, then the M5, then the A38 - at night - in the rain :)

Selfishly I had hoped for a shift to EXT, but I know I shouldn't blame other people for the lack of ambition at PLH...

I guess I can understand the Flybe focus on Southampton (gives the stock-broker belt an alternative to LHR), but the FRA-BRS planes are always fairly full so I can't believe the route is a loss-maker. You're probably right about slot hogging, though, just a matter of time.

What was this that LH have been saying?

[Devonair]

It is my understanding Flybe always try new routes from SOU first before rolling them out at EXT depending on their success. Hopefully EXT will have German routes within a year or so.

[Bristol_Traveller]

Here's what was reported at the end of last year about a potential LH touchdown at Bristol. I did write them a letter (given I'm one of their better customers) encouraging them to follow through, but to no avail.

http://news.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/2006/09/lufthansa_consi.html

I don't want to fly KLM/SkyTeam around the world. I want to get on at BRS, transfer at FRA or MUC and on around Europe and Asia. There's nothing more depressing than Landing at LHR in the p*****ing rain, and having 3 hours drag to go.

[elgan]

Flybe to close BRS Base sorry guys. All routes dropped with the exception of JER. All the best to those affected by this decision.
http://nextgenerationairline.com/pdf/brs.pdf

[Marco491]

Thanks for the link Bristol Traveller, and the vague hope.

Don't have your rest-of-the-world problem but couldn't agree more about LHR.
Notwithstanding the distance, on a good day it takes well over an hour from plane to car (thank goodness for Hertz Gold), and then up to 30 mins in the rush hour to leave the perimeter.

Compare that with BRS where I would swear that one morning I was sitting in my car before my seat on the plane had had a chance to go cold.

[WATABENCH]

What a shame BE have made that discission, although most of us could see it coming, I still believe that FR would fill the void quite nicely, they've added extra DUB with the closure of the CWL route, and added SNN & GRO recently, they have no bases in the south west at all, so surely it would make good business sense, I imagine the airport is a bit worried with regards to making BRS seem like just a LOCO hub, but hey beggars can't be choosers, get FR in now, fill these lost BA routes, plenty of crew available to work in the area, and give EZY a run for their money.
With the BRS marketing team being as good as they are I cant see the airport being without these routes for very long.

[a1234]

Can't really see how RYR can take over these routes seeing as they serve none of the lost airports, and since most of the pax that used the German routes were primarily business people I can't see many choosing to fly to Hahn instead of Frankfurt so really many will just go down the LHR from now. Although if lufthansa come in then it is possible to see these replaced, wouldn't be surprised to see MCH taken on by Easy though.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I think the difficulty that BACon faced (and Flybe might have faced) is that "once a day" routes with no onward connections are pretty duff for business users. Aside from the fact I won't fly FR (with the exception of BRS-DUB), I definitely wouldn't want to be dumped, unreliably, in Hahn in preference to a reasonably reliable journey to a well connected airport like LHR. And a lounge at both ends of the journey.

I fear that, unless the Route Development team secure a full service operator to take over some of these routes, Bristol is going to slide towards being a loco airport, with all of what that entails. Maybe it's going that way already? Giving up gate space for retail, closing the frequent fliers programme, spartan/crowded gate areas (yes, I'm thinking of the Bus Gates 8A...).

What are the options now for a business traveller wanting to start a journey at Bristol (and not do a once-a-day-trip with EZY)? KLM? SN? CO? It's not an impressive lineup.

[WATABENCH]

I suppose it all depends on preference, I'm not a business traveller so I wouldnt really know much about the life style.
A good carrier to try and get in to BRS would be Swiss who have a huge hub at ZRH, that coupled with LH serving FRA/DUS would surely give quite a few more options to you guys.
I just think someone like FR would be good for challengeing on the GLA/EDI/CDG routes, either that or as mentioned earlier Air Southwest.

[Tom the Tenor]

Bristol, how many airbridges and are they all in daily use? Thanks.

[WATABENCH]

No airbridges down here my friend, what do you think BRS is? an international airport or something? There are some cracking new buses though :ok:

Hurrah, at least were keeping the BA - TFS route, according to BIA website the airport is in discussions with a number of airlines to replace the dropped routes, I guess this is just the usual spiel in the circumstances.

[GBALU53]

Very disapointing to hear of the number of staff to be put down over the Flybe BAcon takeover, some of us do know what is is like but the boys down the road a Exter dont care about lively hoods other than them selves.
My heart goes out to all of those who have lost there jobs as I do know find a job in something you like doing are few and far between.
With Flybe only having a Jersey route operating out of BRS how long will they keep that going after al the agrovation they have sturred up there must be carriers out there to take it on if they were to drop it or are the loads perfoming well?
Air Southwest do have the licence to operate Bristol-Jersey although most of the time it is via plymouth other than the summer when a direct flight operates on a saturday.
With a number of Dash 8 300 comming on the market or have they all been ear marked else where.
I would like to think some of the BAcon whould move to Air Southwest as some form of security as the Dash 8 300 does fit in to there operation after all.
There would be other carriers other the Air Southwest that would look at taking the route on if Flybe did pull the plug.
All the best to the staff made redundent.

[Marco491]

Agree with a1234: can't see Ryanair jumping in to fly BRS to Hahn. A few years ago I used to commute via the Hahn to Bournemouth link. It was a drag with a couple of hours' drive both ends, but in the summer it was ok and the times suited me. But as the planes were often virtually empty (no need for reserved seating shall we say!) they scrapped the route.

On balance I think I would also rather fly in to LHR and drive than have to endure a couple of hours to Hahn and then do another drive at the other end. And you can certainly forget connecting to FRA, that's not what Hahn is for...

If WOW had a bit of ambition then there are options for it to extend outwards from BRS, but it's probably extending their model a bit too much, so I wouldn't bank on them stepping in.

My guess if that once again the door will be closed for a while to the international business/regular traveller in the southwest, and BRS will have gone two steps back. Personally I haven't looked into connecting to PLH via MAN, but it's scraping the bottom of the barrel given that I have to hire a car at destination anyway.

One thing is certain though, these people don't run charities: if it ain't profitable for them then they will cut the route. It is wrong to think they are there to serve us, they're not council-subsidised bus companies.

[Standard Noise]

Someone in the know told me yesterday that all the BACon routes are to be filled, some by lo cost and some (German/Swiss routes) buy full service carriers. It will happen, the announcements will follow shortly. Panic ye not.

The loss of BACon, while sad, will not be felt too badly by the punters and the fact that Flybe are almost gone is a good thing. They have never been the same since Uncle Jack popped his clogs and the airline (laughably they call themselves Europe's largest regional airline, whatever that is supposed to imply) has never liked competition or even the threat of it. I remember them dropping routes from Belfast City if Easyjet announced there would be a similar route from Aldergrove, months before Easy started their routes up! Bristol certainly doesn't need an airline like that, the yellow bellied *******!

[Bristol_Traveller]

StandardNoise - I'll be pleased if that's the outcome. Maybe one step back, two steps forward?

Marco - agreed that services from BRS must demonstrate profit, but the airport has a role in helping that happen. If an operator sets up a route on a once-a-day basis, it deters other operators investing in a more frequent service. I felt that BACons FRA/MUC/DUS services were pretty useless with no traffic opportunity other than leisure visitors (to FRA? to DUS? Errrrr..). At least the BHX/MAN to Germany routes can also carry transit passengers, which is probably why they fill up A319/A320s. If the airport can deliver a route development strategy beyond a headline direct destination count, then it's probably a stronger proposition in the long term.

Watabench - that's a very good thought about LX to ZRH. I've used them a number of times this year out of LCY (to avoid the hell of LHR) through ZRH and onto GVA and BCN, and it's been very comfortable. (And very good value, even in C). I'm booked to do a flight to BOM with them in June. If LX can integrate BRS-ZRH into their onward connections, the only place that will suffer noticeably will be northern German destinations like DUS because of increased transit times.

Ultimately, economics will prepare a case for a new operator. I'm prepared to pay a £100 premium to fly from BRS to my destination over flying from LHR. ("Never give your hand away when negotiating"). But in terms of my hassle saved and time saved, it's worth it. I put quite a high value on Touch Down->Front Door in less than 30 minutes.

[Marco491]

Hell, BT, I'm prepared to pay over the odds if I can get home from the airport in under 2 hours :). I work with Greeks who can get home quicker than I can.

Don't know enough about the airport's role in route development, so bow to you on that one.

However, would not agree at all on the pax profile on BRS-FRA, at least on Thurs/Fri and Mon (maybe there's the rub). The planes were always pretty full, even in the old slots. Most seemed to be regular commuters like myself, often a lot of IT guys servicing the banks, some financial suits, and a handful of leisure travellers who had clearly been transiting via FRA.

Would have been good to have had more than one dep per day but it never really surprised me. Thankful for small mercies..

Hope the rumours are true that the slots will be taken up by a reputable operator...

[Red Snake]

> slots will be taken up by a reputable operator

Unfortunately, the slots are owned by Flybe, not Bristol Airport. A new operator will have to bring their own FRA / MUC slots. Flybe will use the existing ones for SOU &/or EXT.

[Cyrano]

Chaps:

Bloomberg had this yesterday, quoting a Handelsblatt story (which is only available to subscribers):
Aer Lingus to Expand in U.K., Corneille Tells Handelsblatt
2007-03-06 12:06 (New York)
By Brian Parkin
March 6 (Bloomberg) -- Aer Lingus Group Plc, Ireland's
second-largest airline, will expand its U.K. business, opening
its first airport center outside Ireland to compete with
airlines like BMI for customers, management board member Enda
Corneille told German newspaper Handelsblatt.
Dublin-based Aer Lingus, which last year rebuffed a
takeover bid by no-frills airline Ryanair, may open a new base
in Belfast, Glasgow, Bristol or Birmingham, Corneille said in an
interview to be published in tomorrow's edition. Further Aer
Lingus centers in the U.K. may follow, Corneille said.
Corneille, Air Lingus's commercial director, said the
airline will over five years expand its short-flight fleet by a
third to 42 aircraft and double its long-haul fleet to 14,
buying more Airbus SAS planes or switching to Boeing Co. planes.
(Handelsblatt, 03-06 release)

It would seem to me that Bristol (and to a lesser extent Birmingham) present a particularly interesting opportunity for EI just now.

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

But i thought Aer Lingus were pulling the DUb route sometime this march?

So the question could be asked why expand from an airport that your pulling your one and only route from?

[a1234]

No chance of EI at BRS, can't see them going up against an ever stronger Easy and the rumour is that the new base will be looking to open up more of a bucket and spade outfit rather than connections to other major cities like Frankfurt, Zurich etc. And seeing as DUB is no longer bookable from March 24 I'd put my bets on GLA or BHX.

[MerchantVenturer]

I fear that, unless the Route Development team secure a full service operator to take over some of these routes, Bristol is going to slide towards being a loco airport, with all of what that entails. Maybe it's going that way already? Giving up gate space for retail, closing the frequent fliers programme, spartan/crowded gate areas (yes, I'm thinking of the Bus Gates 8A...).

B_T

I would preface what follows by saying unequivocally that it has to be compared to the situation those who have lost jobs find themselves in, and on that score is of much less importance.

I speak as a fairly regular pax of many years , albeit a leisure one these days, and have to say that standards certainly seem to be slipping in the services provided by the airport management.

In addition to those matters you have highlighted above I would add that the terminal is becoming down at heel in places, perhaps scruffy might be a better description, and at busy times (as I found again this week) it is no longer a pleasant experience.

My wife and I are still waiting for our final frequent flyer vouchers, promised to be sent out at the end of January.

I have emailed the airport more than once in recent weeks seeking information on other services but have not been afforded the courtesy of a reply. If this is the way loyal and long-standing customers are treated I begin to wonder what is going on.

The airport management says it is in discussions with several major airlines and hopes to replace the cancelled routes as soon as possible.

Well, let's hope they do but this is what one would expect an airport management to say in these circumstances.

Flybe may be taking a gamble turning its face on an important and vibrant business community (by far the largest in the whole of the government South West region and one of the most dynamic economies in the entire country) but, as a pax, I would prefer a clean break rather than some routes lingering through the summer with the uncertainty of when (not if) they would be axed.

2007 has been BRS's worst year for several decades, for all sorts of well-publicised reasons, and it won't become any better with a major battle to get the required expansion plans approved.

Perhaps the loss of the BACon pax might give the airport an opportune breathing space.

What is certain is if the pax growth had continued its inexorable upward progress the terminal would have become an intolerable customer experience at certain times of the day without an increase in size.

As for Aer Lingus (alluded to by other posters), their DUB-BRS was a single daily in early afternoon,and was always going to struggle against the multi-daily Ryanair services, especially when they fell out with CWL and increased the BRS rotations.

Aer Lingus has has a long and almost unbroken relationship with Bristol, going back to the Whitchurch days, when Dublin-Bristol became EI's first ever international route in 1936.

There may be no sentiment in business but never say never.

[Bristol_Traveller]

What is certain is if the pax growth had continued its inexorable upward progress the terminal would have become an intolerable customer experience at certain times of the day without an increase in size.

I'm not sure that the loss of the BACon pax (hello to both of you) will help the overcrowding at times. I'm not sure that adding retail space in front of the gates and a Starbucks stand in the middle of the seating area helped that either. I'm no interior designer, but simply cutting off the view of the apron dramatically reduced the sense of space.

Macquarie are hard task masters when it comes to turning a profit. I know a couple of people who work for various businesses under the Macquarie banner in different parts of the world. If there's a cost to be cut, cut it. That's not to say there's underinvestment, but certainly the objective is to spend as little as possible for most return. A lick of paint won't materially impact the number of passengers using BRS, so it probably won't get licked. A new "Claire's Accessories" unit drops cash to the bottom line within months of it being built.

As I've noted before, business passengers are not very profitable for the airport. We rarely buy anything, and we get free coffee in lounge that uses up space that could be retail. We expect top-notch service, and whisking through the terminal, but our Airport Passenger Duty is the same as a crowd of shopaholics on a weekend break to Ibiza.

There comes a point when events become self-defining. If Bristol becomes primarily a loco airport, it will become the Stanstead or Luton of the South West. That perception will grow, and diminish the likelyhood of full service airlines maintaining a service at an airport everyone thinks is a loco base. It feels like a defining moment.

[Dartania]

When an airport chooses to drink with the devil in this case the low service airlines expect to start see the the charter airlines leaving BRS next driven out by Easy.Then the airport will have to start charging realistic fees to the low service airlines and hey presto the transformation is complete the travelling public have got low service airlines at full service prices.Still many of us charter pilots will be glad to see the back of Bristol with its sub-standard runway and location even when its surface is in a proper state of repair.Honeymoon deals from airports to low service carriers do not advantage the passenger in the long run.Charter carriers are studying their long term futures at this airport very seriously at present.

[WATABENCH]

Dartania has a very valid point here regarding charter carriers, TOM seem very keen on creating a large base in CWL and seem to be the only airline showing intrest over there, were all aware of the rumour around that they may abandon BRS, the TCX/MYT merge probably doesnt bode all that great for BRS, the fact that they are looking at consolodating routes and getting rid of staff will probably mean a year round company ac for now, but as MYT tend to share on XL in winter and TCX share with FCA in summer they dont need to do this anymore so will prob just have 1 a320 sat year round and meaning not buying seats from other carriers, the capacity is then taken away also from FCA/XL so there may not be a need for 2 FCA 757s and 2 XL/KM ac.
FCA as a company are looking more towards longhaul so yes BRS will prob keep the 3 longhaul routes in order to prepare the south west market for 2009 and the B787 which will do longhaul direct from BRS, but the concentration on more mid-longhaul routes means a cutting down on their european bucket and spade markets(AGP/FAO/PMI/MAH/ALC) all these routes that are now swamped with LOCO's.
The only way ahead I can see for Charters if all that were to be the case, would be if TOM pulled BRS and FCA pulled CWL and they carried each others pax, were lucky that at the moment both XL and FCA have a good relationship with BRS, both seem commited to the airport so hopefully they can work out a way to hold their ground against the Orange Army.

[Harry the Hound]

Looks like the runway/taxiway work is going to overrun by a week or so in to April now, however closing time of runway will be changed to 0030-0500 01st APR-04thAPR, 0100-0500 05thAPR-07thAPR and 0001-0400 on 08thAPR by the looks of things :oh:

[Harry the Hound]

Anybody wondering about the return of the BACON german routes should have a quick look at the Air Berlin thread, few people on there including a german member saying that BRS looks a good possibility for Air Berlin routes in the near future.

[Bristol_Traveller]

Hmmm.. AirBerlin. Hardly what I'd call a full service carrier.

Quite a lot of their advertised routes are "Via STN" (!) - For instance, MAN-TXL is actually MAN-STN-TXL. MAN-ZRH is actually MAN-HAM-ZRH. And Bournemouth-Paderborn doesn't thrill me with excitement.

We'd still be stuck with the dead-end option too - no onward connection opportunities. It's fine to run a BRS-ZRH route, but if it's not part of a code-share/alliance arrangement, you'll only end up with the relatively small number of people who want to do BRS-ZRH. I'm convinced that was a significant factor in BACon's struggles.

I did wonder last night if maybe BRS is already struggling with non-Domestic business customers? I don't know how many business fliers use EZY out of BRS, but KL ship around 350 people a day out, and SN about the same. It's not a lot compared with the tide of EZY passengers each day.

[MerchantVenturer]

B_T
I take your point about an airline like Air Berlin, especially if any service would be routed via Stansted (and a change of aircraft?).

BRS reckons it gets a higher proportion of business pax than many UK regional airports (see master plan).

However, Air Berlin might be better than no service at all and a foot in the door might lead to more direct routes, but how would easyJet take this? At places like LPL and EMA, where other locos have significant presences, easyJet have not expanded in the way they have at BRS, where they are King of the Heap.

Some might say that a lessening of easyJet’s dominance would be a good thing. But what if they took the ‘ump because another loco set up alongside and they scaled back the expansion of recent years, and then that other loco decided it wasn’t that committed to BRS after all?

This must be a bit of a poser for any airport management.

I note that the BRS website is now seeking views on which German routes are required by potential customers.

The 2006 annual CAA stats are now out and the BACon international business routes show the following totals:

Milan 23K
Frankfurt 21K
Munich 19K
Zurich 19K
Dusseldorf (10K - route commenced in June)

Incidentally, compare Zurich to Geneva where 125K scheduled pax were hauled - all by easyJet.

CDG saw 117K sched pax - up from 97K the previous year, and almost certainly due to easyJet coming on the route in the last two months of the year and doubling those monthly totals compared to BACon alone.

Brussels Airlines carried 63K on the BRU route, similar to 2005.

Amsterdam’s figure was 271K, shared between KLM and easyJet.

The most popular route was DUB where 362K sched pax were carried between Ryanair and Aer Lingus, with the latter almost certainly not getting its ‘fair share’.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I heard a Lufthansa radio advert on GWR-fm this morning; it's the first time I've heard Lufthansa adverts round here, so is this a sign? (BRS-KUL for £449 - now that would be nice).

M_V : you are certainly our Statto; thanks for those numbers. They're just a factor of ten below EZY, so it's easy to understand why BACon couldn't get into the black.

I wonder what the numbers for those routes out of BHX look like, running larger planes (A319/320) and with transit passengers?

[Standard Noise]

I thought it was funny when I read in a trade mag last week that Aer Rianta are selling their stake in Brum cos they have identified Briss as one of the main reasons why their operation is not growing as well as they would like. Now however, with the demise of BaCon and no one to fill in most of the gaps til at least winter 07, Brum could claw back a bit of business.

[WATABENCH]

The FC/TUI meger could prove possitive for both BRS and CWL passangers, now instead of a rumoured TOM pullout at BRS there could be a possibilty of 3 or 4 company a/c at BRS and the same at CWL, both bases are strong for both companies for diffrent reasons, how about increase of LOCO at CWL to provide a proper alternative to EZY at BRS, and a concentration on mid-long haul packages from BRS where both TOM and FCA carry more than TCX/MYT anyway.

[MerchantVenturer]

WATABENCH,

TUI seems to have 51% of the new grouping so might it not turn out to be a bad thing for Bristol in the long run?

TUI is bigger at CWL than at BRS and seems to be increasing its presence there with rumours of a BRS pull-out altogether.

If the new group had major programmes from both BRS and CWL would it not be competing against itself?

Flybe seems to be think this about BRS and EXT so perhaps TUI/FC might come to the same conclusion about BRS and CWL.

TUI/FC might think EXT was a better bet to service the south west without diluting CWL too much.

Furthermore, it seems generally accepted that easyJet's major presence at BRS was also an influence on Flybe's decision. Might this not also come into TUI/FC's thinking?

I hope this does not happen but there must be a possibility.

It would be particularly galling after Boeing told the BRS management that the 787 could operate out of BRS non-stop to a number of transatlantic destinations with a full payload.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I've had a disappointing day today. Much as I don't/didn't say it often, I'm missing BACon.

I have to do an afternoon meeting in Paris on Wednesday afternoon, and the old BACon schedule was ideal; out first thing, back early evening. Now I'm stuffed. One EZY flight a day, and surprise surprise, it's right in the middle of the afternoon. I can't travel out Tuesday afternoon for a Wednesday afternoon meeting and then back Thursday afternoon. I want to support BRS, but there are limits!

So it's off down the motorway - but I'm bypassing LHR to try Eurostar.

I'm rather hoping to get a warm fuzzy feeling at the airport tomorrow; that there isn't a scrum at security, and that the EWR flight pushes back on time. (And I'll look down from the Cabot at the seething crowd, navigating their way round Starbucks and Claire's Accessories).

[WATABENCH]

MV its way way to early in the deal to tell or even speculate anything my old fruit, however the new company is being headed by the FC Chief Exec Peter Long and I imagine he will see the FC side get a fair deal, if you look at the situation TUI are 4 times the size of FC currently, however FC shareholders are getting half the business(so who's share holders are better off?) also FC profit margin is just over 5% whereas TUI's is just under 2.5%, so in theory FC is the more profitable on a like for like basis, this may not spell the end for all things First Choice or all things Thomson in the UK, they may end up being 1 company but why get rid of 2 strong brands(let alone other strong brands such as Hayes and Jarvis, 2wentys, island cruises)?
I believe that Thomsons only has 20-30 BRS based crew, where as FC has 130, in CWL its the other way round, and I honestly dont believe that the new company being the size it is will want to consolidate at airports, lets not forget the rumoured TOM pull out was not because they couldn't get bums on seats, it was because they weren't making enough profit, a company the size of this is will be able to adapt to the local market a lot easier.
Also lets not forget that this is going to be the biggest tour operator in the world, a fleet of 160 aircraft plus an order between them for 23 B787s, it will also be a FTSE 100 company with 23 million customers a year between them currently.
This company is going to be a MASSIVE HOLIDAY MONSTER! there really wont be a need to consolidate in the regions, they will see where they're strong together (SW & Wales being 1 area) take aim at MYT/TCX and fire!
If Thomsons still pull out of BRS thats still a Thomsons decision, the 2 companys will not become 1 to the naked eye for at least a year, but as the airport grows so does the figure of people wanting to holiday, so give it time, however with TCX haveing their own a/c this will leave room for Thomsons pax to jump on the FCA's,
Lets not forget this partnership was formed as a direct "Up yours" to TCX/MYT, with a large portion of "bring it on" to the likes of EZY/FR.

[Air Hop]

Bristol_Traveller - why not fly from Exeter? Flybe go out in the morning and back in the evening? It's not that far down the M5:ok:

[Bristol_Traveller]

I had a pretty event free BRS-EWR-BRS last week, so my karma is a bit lighter. Loads were pretty good, even up in C. The real benefit of landing at BRS at 09:15 (55 minutes late to air at EWR) is being back at my desk for 10:00.

Air_Hop; you're right about the EXT flights (and indeed, a colleague flew AF from SOU to CDG), but EXT is surprisingly hard to get to and from without a car. I would have had to go down Monday night anyway to get a morning flight, or taken a horribly expensive taxi. It was just cheaper/easier to go to London Monday night and take Eurostar from Waterloo.

I did fly back with EZY6224 from CDG to BRS, which made me grumpy again. T3 at CDG is not a place I'll be racing back to, and I can't believe how tight the seat pitch on EZY is. (I did do gate->home in 25 minutes though).

[Silvertop]

"and I can't believe how tight the seat pitch on EZY is. (I did do gate->home in 25 minutes though)."
At least you didn't bump your head a la Barbie Jet though.:)

[WATABENCH]

Been told today that EZY are looking at possibly 3 new french routes, any guesses? Lyon would surely be one, but cant really think of anywhere else they'd be intrested in or they aren't already covering.

[cesare]

Easyjet have put on sale BRS-MXP until end of october.

From 1st october timetable change and will be operated by a BRS based plane.

From 23/4 to 30/09:
MXP-BRS 7:25-8:35
BRS-MXP 9:00-12:05

From 1st October:
BRS-MXP 18:50-21:15
MXP-BRS 21:50-22:55

So, what route will be reduced at BRS to make free space for BRS-MXP?

[Silvertop]

So, what route will be reduced at BRS to make free space for BRS-MXP?
Perhaps none if it heralds the arrival of an 11th aeroplane ,and do you have o information other than the schedule change to suggest that it will be a BRS based plane that operates this service?
cheers Silvertop

[Bristol_Traveller]

At least you didn't bump your head a la Barbie Jet though.

I was always lucky enough to get 11A on the old Pocket Rocket. I lost count of the number of concussed pax in the C seats. I'd prefer that to having my knees cracked by the trolley as it goes past.

More EZY to France?! Twice a day to CDG might be more helpful than Brest or other places less visited.

[cesare.caldi]

and do you have o information other than the schedule change to suggest that it will be a BRS based plane that operates this service?


It' s on sale on Easyjet website!;)

[Kellycsi]

Easyjet have dropped to one rotation per day on the Amsterdam route :confused:

[airhumberside]

Easyjet will fly to Warsaw 3xWeek from October (source - FlyCheapo website)

[WATABENCH]

BRS-CUN with FCA from summer 08(not released for another 2 weeks, so hope i'm not wrong)
Unsure if it's weekly or fortnightly, will advise soon, VRA(Cuba) looks as if it is going to be dropped though, SFB will stay weekly, i'm unsure about POP for next summer, although it is on sale for next winter(weekly) so hopefully it will stay.
But CUN should sell a lot lot better than VRA, holidays to mexico are usually much cheaper than Cuba, i would think if the business is there for POP weekly then most probably CUN aswell :ok:

[cesare]

Easyet new route BRS-WAW 3x week from 2 october:

BRS-WAW 09:00-12:40 2
WAW-BRS 13:10-14:50 2

BRS-WAW 06:50-10:30 4
WAW-BRS 11:00-12:40 4

BRS-WAW 15:00-18:40 6
WAW-BRS 19:10-20:50 6

On sale now!

[MerchantVenturer]

The Warsaw route is not a surprise given the number of Polish nationals living and working in the Greater Bristol area and indeed in the wider South West.

The Krakow route seems very successful since it started last summer with monthly average loads invariably 90% and above, and the fares are not cheap, which suggests it might be providing a decent yield.

The morning AMS flight is stopping in early May, leaving easyJet with just the single daily evening route.

It seems the aircraft will be used to operate the second weekdaily CDG flight that has been brought forward from the autumn to commence in early May.

The Mon to Fri departures from BRS to CDG will be at 0730 and 1400; Sat and Sun will remain single daily.

On another topic, ITV West local news this evening carried an item about eighty Sunderland football supporters being refused carriage on the easyJet flight from BRS back to Newcastle on Saturday evening following Sunderland’s win at Cardiff City.

This was reportedly because of the fans’ boisterous behaviour.

The Sunderland chairman, Niall Quinn, then paid £8,000 for the supporters to return to the North East in a fleet of 18 taxis from Bristol Airport.

[cesare]

The morning AMS flight is stopping in early May, leaving easyJet with just the single daily evening route.

Why this reduction? Bad load factor?

[Bristol_Traveller]

Guessing at the EZY schedules from BRS-CDG, I'd guess the available time in Paris is 10:00 to about 16:30. Well, it's just about enough time for lunch, I suppose, which is the main way business appears to be done in France.

For a serious day's work on Europe, you need to be off the ground before 06:30, which is hard work with night flying restrictions.

[Tom the Tenor]

Fair play to the mighty Quinn for lashing out for the taxis back to Sunderland! Bet the taxi drivers felt they died and had gone to heaven with fares like that to Sunderland!

Anyone have an impression on how the Newark loads have been like lately? Did yez all know that Bristol and Cork both got their Charter in the same year, 1185!?

[Confirmed Must Ride]

EWR loads at the moment doing very well, oversold for most of the last week and forward bookings for the summer looking very healthy.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The Bristol to Paris CDG is a 07.00 departure with a 14.00 return. Given that local time in Paris is an hour ahead that puts you checking in in the UK at 06.00 and checking in in France at 14.00.

Whilst not enough to be called a full working day its a good reaction to the unexpected pulling out of the route by BACON. Expect better timings come the next schedule as Paris is a key route. I wouldn't be amazed if it went 3 times daily, early, afternoon, evening.

Cheers

WWW

[Harry the Hound]

Ehrm just wandering if everyone missed Watabench's last post as nobodys acknowledged it, and its a BIG new route for Brizzle! BRS-CUN with FCA in S08, at the expense of Cuba - Suits me, Tequlia and Nachos all the way baby:ok:
Lets hope it comes through, I've been to my local FC shop today and their summer programme for 08 is realeased on April 12th, wander what other new routes are up the charter operators sleeves, would love a Dubrovnik, great city!

[fyrefli]

Easyjet have dropped to one rotation per day on the Amsterdam route

Bugger - at least most days (until end Sept or thereabouts) it's the evening rotation from the current schedule, as opposed to the usable-time-eating early afternoon flights.

[MerchantVenturer]

Harry

Although I would not be interested in these transatlantic charters I have no doubt they will be very popular – my son is taking his family to POP from BRS very soon – and possibly Mexico is better known to the punters than Cuba.

Your mention of Dubrovnik reminds me of the 1980s when many regional airports had weekly summer charters to the old Yugoslavia through
Yugotours.

BRS had flights to Pula, Split and Dubrovnik (and possibly other Balkan destinations) and airlines such as JAT, Inex-Adria and Aviogenex were regular visitors.

I seem to recall that super little airline, Paramount, leased an Adria aircraft to operate out of BRS to other destinations for part of one summer around the end of the 80s.

On another matter, the Brussels Airlines BRU service appears to have reduced to 2 x daily from the previous 3 and no longer night stops as far as I can make out.

Does this and the pull-out of BACon mean the apron pressure is now not so acute at busy times? Can some of the smaller stands that BACon used be converted in some way for use by larger aircraft, at least as a temporary measure?

B_T

The easyJet booking engine shows the 0730 arriving CDG 0950 and departing at 1030 to arrive back at BRS at 1045, all times local.

The 1400 from BRS arrives CDG at 1620, leaves at 1650 with an arrival back at BRS at 1710.

As WWW says, easyJet have to be applauded for responding so quickly to the changed situation and I’m sure they realise the timings are not ideal and will do their best to make them more user-friendly when the winter timetable is announced.

[WATABENCH]

MV,
I'm sure i've seen 737s and 319s parked on the 'BA' stands before, although I'd imagine the max you would get for wing tip purposes is 3 infront of the old terminal, I wonder if SN will be using a larger a/c instead? poss 320?
Not wanting to get too political, but it was such a shame what happened to the Balkans in the 1990's, I agree with you lot, Dubrovnik is a wonderful place full of wonderful friendly people, was there 1.5 years ago and they have a small museum dedicated to the Serbian invasion, it has unbelivable storys, pics and videos in there, to see it today you wouldnt believe it's the same place.
The approach into Dubrovnik is pretty bumpy though, the airport lies between 2 sets of small mountains and has a cheeky little wind blowing between them strait across the strip.
Anyway sorry was straying off topic there for a bit, started to sound like a Croatian tourist board advert!
No news on replacement of lost BA german routes yet then people?

[Standard Noise]

Easterly stands can accommodate larger sized aircraft. For example, 16 can take a 737/319 although it has now been approved for a FK100 should it be required.
As for new carriers, I believe the target is for the winter season as they are all now too busy to start up for the summer.

[redfield]

319's don't fit on the "BA" stands - they've never been parked there. Maximum size a/c allowed stand 16 is a 737-200 series (although it's now approved for the KLM F100 as well), max size a/c on both 15 and 14 is a F70. These days 13 is practically useless apart from the Scilly Bus twin otter. Nothing else fits on that stand! How busy it is depends on what criteria you're using: from the airport's viewpoint, there's less aircraft as there's no BA Embraers about, but from the viewpoint of Servisair's dispatch, operations and pax handling departments, we're much busier because we've taken on all of the SN, T3 and WOW flights as of March 25th. And, incidentally, reduced delays by about 50% (based on the same time period last year) for these airlines in the process! :D

[WATABENCH]

Summer 08 FCA still 2 757s, new routes BRS-ADB(ADNAN MENDERES, TURKEY)
and BRS-EFL.:ok:
CUN definatly on sale, SFB still there, VRA, VAR and POP are taken off by looks of things.

[ATCO1987]

Sorry to get pedantic redfield, but isnt stand 16 max B733? Same for 15. With 14 max F70, and 13 max E145...correct me if Im wrong.

[Goldilocks95]

whats the likelyhood of a munich flight starting up at brs? are ezy interested at all?
I heard something about an airline fkying to GIB but has anything been announced?

[airvanman]

Mail Flights ?’s
When are they returning from FZO?
If so, what building will they use? A new one (that should have been built by now), or Wards old one?
Are they still using at FZO 146’s and F.27’s?

I do miss the 748’s :( . Bored with Buses and Boeings -All quiet, clean, and shiny..ZZzzzz.. !

[redfield]

ATCO - no you're right, its such a long time since we parked a 733 on 15 or 16 I'd forgotten about it! But I was right about 13 and 14 though....F70 on 14, and 13 not much use now for anything other than the Skybus, unless they start parking the J31's on there. Goldilocks..I heard that OLT were code-sharing Munich with LH using the OLT a/c?????

[bravoromeosierra]

Recently have been noticing the GEEBEE for BA flights come in and out of BRS on Fridays and Saturdays. It seems a little silly for just the 'one' flight to Tenerife , do GEEBEE have any ideas on possibly opening more routes out of BRS?

[Red Snake]

Seriously need someone to do early & late Paris. It's a real pain at moment, KLM out at 06:00 & back at 22:00 with barely 5 hours to do business. Flybe must be mad to have canned it. EZY middle of the day is useless for business.

Any takers?

[Standard Noise]

redfield - I knew those types would fit on the eastern stands because it was the BIA Ops dept who told us when they informed us that they would be used for the KLMs.

[Bristol_Traveller]

I heard that OLT were code-sharing Munich with LH using the OLT a/c?????

Woah... that's unexpected. OLT don't normally get on with LH. You can do BRS-BRE-HAM, but OLT only do Rostock-MUC. There is a BRE-MUC flight with LH, but I can't see any codesharing anywhere between OLT and LH?

Here's a radical idea - why not invite BMI to join us at Bristol? Their list of "core" destinations is very similar to the wishlist (or currently operating list) at BRS, and they'd doubtless codeshare flights to MUC/FRA with LH.
BMI operate to (in no particular order):
MAN/LBA/MME/GLA/EDI/ABZ/NWI/DUB/BFS
CDG/MUC/FRA/TLS/LYS/STR/AMS/VIE

I wouldn't say no to a BD flight to MAN (sorry WOW!) for onward connections. Although I can't see they'd be that excited about taking on EZY on EDI/GLA/BFS etc.etc.

[airvanman]

BristolTraveller

MAN/LBA/MME/GLA/EDI/ABZ/NWI/DUB/BFS
CDG/MUC/FRA/TLS/LYS/STR/AMS/VIE

WOW should be looking at doing most of them! WOW should jump in and fill the gaps asap, or become a bitch/partner for other airlines. Or soon the FlyBe Monster will munch 'em up for sure!

and another...
BD will end up part of BA one day.

Mark my words! I can see the future and I hope it is not all bloody Orange @ Lulsgate Bottom!

Best Rgds
Airvanman The Wizzard of Worle.;)

[WATABENCH]

Just reading on another rumour website that BRS is being considered by FR as 1 of 10 new routes from MLA if they can get the right deal from the authorities in MLA, other UK routes in the list were Doncaster/Sheffield and Glasgow-PIK.

[Bristol_Traveller]

BD will end up part of BA one day.

Mark my words! I can see the future and I hope it is not all bloody Orange @ Lulsgate Bottom!

Amen to the last sentiment.

I'm not sure how LH and SK (the (50% - 1 share) part of BMI) would view an approach from BA. I'd also be interested to see how BA would square away with their shareholders an emphatic decision to increase profitability by ditching regional operations, and then acquire an airline with significant regional operations.

I'm not saying it would never happen, but it would sure take some corporate gymnastics to make it happen. There are probably easier acquisitions than BA/BD. (BA / BE for instance).

In the consolidation of European airline travel, FR/EZY et. all will fight to consolidate the "budget" end of the market, and my view is that BA and LH are the only serious contenders to consolidate the European short/long haul operators.

[Harry the Hound]

I've just had a look at a preview of Thomas Cook brochure for summer 08, they have no new routes and are still sharing on FCA, maybe these mergers were too late in the day for TCX to allocate on the based MYT a/c.

Its a shame BD dont show an intrest in BRS, they could be the perfect replacement for BACON routes, they use Embraers aswell dont they? so no likelyhood of struggling to get the pax i guess.
Intresting to see FR eyeing another potential route to MLA, I guess they'd use a MLA based a/c

[danielhobbs]

Seriously need someone to do early & late Paris. It's a real pain at moment,

Easyjet have announced the double daily to paris, start booking it. It leaves at 7.40am (i think) and back at about 5.30.
Youll b able to get about 5 hours then.

----
Itd be great to see some BD's in.
Another Transavia 737 for KLM this lunchtime, and last night the RYR Dreamliner paid a visit to Bristol.

[MerchantVenturer]

whats the likelyhood of a munich flight starting up at brs? are ezy interested at all?
I heard something about an airline fkying to GIB but has anything been announced?

easyJet have started a daily EDI-MUC so they might consider BRS-MUC I suppose.

An airline called Fly Gibraltar announced last year that it would commence services from Gibraltar to STN, BRS, MAN, BHX and DUB from this month.

Things seem to have dragged along and there is now doubt that it will happen at all. The airline's website is promising developments but is still sticking to the April 2007 start date which clearly won't occur.

This PPRuNe link to the Gibraltar thread might interest you.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244342

Recently have been noticing the GEEBEE for BA flights come in and out of BRS on Fridays and Saturdays. It seems a little silly for just the 'one' flight to Tenerife , do GEEBEE have any ideas on possibly opening more routes out of BRS?

The flights started last autumn and have operated on Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays. I would think it unlikely at present that the airline is contemplating further BRS routes but who knows?

Easyjet have announced the double daily to paris, start booking it. It leaves at 7.40am (i think) and back at about 5.30.

That's about it. This was discussed in more detail earlier this month in this thread - see posts #221, 223, 226 and 229.

The provisional CAA stats for March have been published and, perhaps surprisingly, they show a rise of 4.4% (452,197) in pax numbers over March 2006. The 12-month rolling total is 5,711,176 a rise of 6.6% compared to a year ago.

Given that BACon axed some of its routes midway through the month and the others were subject to a lot of cancellations and the inevitable running down in pax numbers, it is probably a very decent performance.

In fact, ATMs were down 7% compared to March 2006 so BRS has achieved a four and a half percent rise in pax numbers with seven per cent less aircraft movements.

The Green Lobby ought to be pleased, in so much as it will ever be pleased as long as airports and aircraft remain.

[BRS_flyer]

Andrew Skipp anounced his resignation today. Press release as follows:

End of an Era at Bristol International Airport

DATE: 19 April 2007

Bristol International Airport today announced that Managing Director Andrew Skipp has decided to leave the company.

Andrew joined the airport in 1989, was appointed to the Board as Financial Director in 1992 and became Managing Director in 2002.

On behalf of the Board, Bristol International Chairman Simon Geere said: “We would like to thank Andrew for the commitment he given the Airport over the last 18 years. He has played a significant role in Bristol International’s development and growth to become one of the country’s leading regional airports. We wish him well for the future.

Andrew Skipp stated "I obviously have mixed emotions at the moment. I am incredibly proud of the huge progress made at Bristol International in the last 18 years. The airport is flourishing, and is now integral to the success of our region. I have been considering this decision for some time with a view to embarking on new and different challenges and, as the airport prepares to enter the next exciting phase of its development, it is the right time for someone new to take the helm.

Andrew has agreed to remain in post until his successor is appointed to ensure a smooth transition.

[Bristol_Traveller]

Did he walk or was he pushed?

Discuss.

[CentreFix25]

JP's available, do you want him back?

[Bristol_Traveller]

I think, as always, there is considerably more going on behind the scenes than is public (and rightly so).

Macquarie are a demanding investor; Easyjet are a demanding customer. Working between the two must take considerable skill and stamina.

It's my opinion that the runway boycott in January started as an operational concern, but was used as a tactic by Easyjet to emphasise their influence over the direction of the airport, and particularly the fees it charges.

I work close to another Macquarie business, and they have a very robust approach to business. Typically they buy into a business that has a large fixed cost, relatively inelastic pricing, and customers who would incurr substantial costs in switching to another supplier. They press the pricing to the limits, whilst at the same time driving costs very hard, which generates a lot of cash very quickly. That in turn is used to buy another business with a similar profile, and so on and so on.

I believe there's a considerable strategic battle taking place over the future of the airport's operational style (expansion plans notwithstanding), which could ultimately be described as Easyjet's desire to create a low cost "Stanstead of the South West" and Macquarie's desire to price operations to the very max without driving Easyjet away. (See also: Ferroval and Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead). I suspect, sadly, that the other airlines are merely bystanders.

I, too, have been impressed by Andrew's attention to customers, and I think he's overseen some radical change that's gone extremely well. They say it's always good to go out at the top, and runway shenanigans excepted, I think he would be regarding as doing so.

[WATABENCH]

TOM have pulled their a/c from next summer :uhoh: