RAAF Retention (or lack thereof)

[control snatch]

I am intersested in hearing peoples views on the state of RAAF pilot manning issues at the moment.

I am hearing conflicting views, some saying numbers are better than ever and others saying somethings gotta give soon.

The worst problems I hear are in the knuck world. I have been told there are more holes in the heirachy than swiss cheese and they are scrambling to fill the gaps. Apparently, I was told, people are picking up their families and being pawned around in some sort of crisis management knee-jerk.

Arent these guys satisfied with flying the best kit in the country??????

Is there any merit to this ranting, or is it just the doomsdayers crapping on??

[Captain Sand Dune]

This has been done before, but I'll have a go. I've been in the training world for more years than I care to admit to:sad: (hey, someone's gotta do it, right?!). Other from the more pointy bits of the RAAF may want to add their own slant.

If you look at the total amount of pilots in the RAAF, we've got heaps.

However, if you start looking deeper, things start to look markedly different.

Although we may have lots of bodies, it's the experience that's lacking.

Certainly in the training world, QFIs' barely reach category B (assessed as above average, used for remedial training and developing junior QFIs) and they're yanked back to the front line.

Over the years the minimum experience levels for instructors course have decreased markedly.

Here's where those from the pointy end can fill in the gaps or correct me:

The transport world has recently lost a whole bunch of instructors/experienced drivers to the airlines. I believe it's similar for the maritime world.

Experience is dwindling in the FJ world too. This puts even more strain on those left behind to do conversions etc (across the board, not just FJ). Remember Australia still has operational commitments to fulfill.

I know that although the guys and gals love flying the best kit in the country, but there comes a time when other factors take priority. Some are leaving because they're just getting burnt out.

Good old Ronnie continues to flog those that remain because, hey, we can just "train our way out of it"!

Having said all that I must also concede that improvements have been made over the years. The RAAF (and Army and Navy I assume) are certainly much more sensitive to those with families and are willing to negotiate when it comes to postings. There is less of a "we must all strive to be CAF and be promoted ASAP" mentality. Those who do not wish to scale the greasy pole of promotion are not treated as once they were.

At the end of the day there are always those who will want to leave, and a certain amount of "wastage" is healthy. However IMHO the way things are going with the airlines is greatly influencing those who are undecided.

Good thing I didn't post this from work then!:eek:

[luvmuhud]

There are a lot of guys resigning at the moment, especially from the Hornet world.

The RAAF, IMHO, gives you the best flying training and experience in Australia, but the longer you stay in, the more you are aware of, and become tired of, the bad parts of the job ( I could write a few hundred examples of these, but I won't. I've already had to request another RAAF exit survey' after I caught myself venting inappropriately for page after page!).

The 'RAAF' (a generalisation) seems to have the attitude that you owe them something after 10 years ROSO - they don't seem aware that, after your ROSO, you make your career choices, not them, and they're based on what's best for you and your family, not the RAAF.

The numbers of pilots have been quite good in the past 5 or so years. I think this has been a result of:

1. The change from 6 to 8 to 10 years ROSO (there literally hasn't been any FLTLT/SQNLDRs able to leave),
2. Morale being high due to going on ops for the first time in living memory, and
3. Airlines not recruiting.

Now that Cathay is recruiting heavily, and BAE is taking people to the sandpit, there is a rush out the door. (Also lots of guys going to private industry). I don't think it's anything new though - just another cycle. It will leave the fast jet squadrons looking pretty bad for mid to high range experience for the next few years. Touch wood, the extremely high level of professionalism and fantastic safety culture will see the junior guys through their first tour safely.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Any of the above posts could have been written 10, 15 or 20 years ago. In 20 years time someone will probably post a question similar to the one above. Nothing seems to change. Training is the only thing that has kept the RAAF's head above water. Retention has always been the problem, because retention addresses experience, training never has, never will. Its a bit like blowing up a bicycle inner tube with a puncture.

The idea that a pilot should do a ground tour in the first 8 years of service is an anathema to the boggie pilot, and simply isn't good business sense.

I would be interested to know how much less experience guys have, I'm not certain its gotten worse in the last five years.

[ruprecht]

This has been going on for years. Some pilots will stay in for a career, and others will leave for a variety of reasons. I'm not convinced that anything is worse now than 5 or ten or even 20 years ago. There have always been the prophets of doom who point to the experienced guys leaving and say that the sky is falling, but what they fail to realise is that it's ALWAYS been that way. I'm not saying that retention couldn't be managed better, but a little perspective is in order.

On a personal note, I miss parts of the RAAF - BUT when I left I was smart enough to realise that the things I'd miss about the RAAF I'd never get again anyway, even if I stayed in. Like being a line captain, or a line QFI -- all too soon these tended to dry up and I didn't like what the RAAF was offering me after these so I left. As I said, some guys like it and stay in. Hell, I just heard that one of the guys from my pilots course will be the new CO at 75 -- at 35 years old. Nice one RC! :ok:

ruprecht. (nine year FLTLT and proud of it:) )

[Captain Sand Dune]

I would be interested to know how much less experience guys have, I'm not certain its gotten worse in the last five years.

When I did my instructors course 13 years ago I had about 2,500 hours total of which about 1,200 was in command. I believe the minimum requirements for instructors course at that time were a B CAT on type with 750 in command on all types.

I'm not exactly sure what the minimum requirements in terms of command hours for instructors course are now (I don't take DI's home!). I think it's 500, but someone in the know can correct me. What is significant though is that waivers are being granted for some to go on instructors course because they don't have the minimum command hours. This is directly attributable to the current policy of training rates as mentioned by Pass-A-Frozo above.

[Condition lever]

The Command experience requirement went from 1000hrs to 500hrs to a nominal 300hrs.

One guy I know got on course with 30hrs C130 and the remainder of the 300hrs made up from the RAAF balloon. Having said that I believe he did quite well at 2FTS. Another Navy guy had even less experience than that.

While I agree that there seems to be a dearth of experience, the guys I considered boggies are stepping up to the mark and doing quite well.

[Arm out the window]

The balloon!!

"Practice!" (turns gas burner off).
Initial actions - speed to height, ah, hang on, that's not right ... settle, land -that's more like it! Phew, another emergency handled with aplomb and derring-do.

[control snatch]

So just as I expected, doomsdayers ranting on when it has all happened before.:zzz:

[Condition lever]

Yes, the RAAF Balloon!!
I think you may be able to log that as twin jet time!:rolleyes:

[Agony]

AOTW,

Nice one, I was looking for the fourth action, not too many yellow and black handles in a balloon.................:suspect:

Do they auto or what ??????;)

[DutchRoll]

Sigh. Nothing ever changes. The desk-job mentality is alive and well. I was actually formally asked to reconsider a few months after I resigned and I offered (in writing) to return on my former pay scale so long as I had an ironclad contract stating I would be permanently employed in flying duties, my presence was not required unless performing flying or directly flying/flying training related duties, and I had some locational stability. Guess what the response was? I could almost hear the laughter emanating from DPO from here in Sydney. This was less than 5 years ago.

I vividly remember being told by a certain boss of mine (who incidentally was a great boss anyway and is now in a position in the ADF where his only superiors are politicians) when I got posted back to flying duties, that the most important thing for my promotional prospects was how I performed my secondary duties! Felt like ripping my wings off and chucking them over my shoulder! But this attitude is the norm.

The experience problem is real and as bad or worse than ever. Had a discussion not long ago with a couple of my former peers, one of whom was still in the RAAF and one of whom was "in the know" directly regarding flying safety, about the latest round of flying incident reports emanating from my old haunts. I was just gob-smacked at some of the situations, and even more gob-smacked at some of the written responses (like "aaww, she'll be right mate" sort of responses). It was really extremely worrying.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Dutchie,

Re your second para. Its easy to forget that some guys hanker for the big ranks, the big jobs, and anecdotally you could do OK leaving as a 1 or 2* and transfer across to the commercial sector a la some ex-CAFs and CDFs. Admittedly, these opportunities are few and far between, but if you imagine a 55 year old sitting on a board, plus pension, I don't think he is looking at the 'greener' grass in the airline industry at present.

[Centaurus]

Phew! I must have been lucky then in the really old days...1952. I did 18 years of continuous flying posts including the last 7 at the VIP squadron. Then when the dreaded posting to a desk job came in the mail it was time to flee the good old RAAF and go civil. No regrets -apart maybe from not completing the required 20 years for a lifelong pension. Totters unsteadily around local shopping mall flashing Seniors Card which permits free coffee at McDonalds and displays battered Air force officer's cap for handouts!...

[DutchRoll]

Its easy to forget that some guys hanker for the big ranks, the big jobs, and anecdotally you could do OK leaving as a 1 or 2* and transfer across to the commercial sector a la some ex-CAFs and CDFs.
Mmmm. This doesn't apply to the current boss (ie, the chief kahuna), but many of the "hankers for the big ranks" are quite willing to stomp upon whomever is necessary to achieve this, and many "hankers for the big ranks" have ended up being renowned wankers and why they've been employed by the commercial sector is beyond those who have truly and intimately known them and their work.

[Chronic Snoozer]

No argument there Dutchie. Thats what it takes and thats what you get in commercial world also, just look at our politicians!