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View Full Version : Hostages forgive Kidnappers.


Ontariotech
8th Dec 2006, 16:00
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6161125.stm

This really burns my ass.

And to boot, this James Looney guy, refuses to wear a poppy around Remembrance Day, as he does not believe in what it stands for, or something like that. Anyway, he won't wear one, basically, refusing to acknowledge those who paid the ultimate sacrifice, to give him the freedom, to spout off the way he does. Show some respect James, for goodness sake.

And.....

Ex-Iraq hostage James Loney joins protest march for Muslim security detainees Sun Jun 04, 11:06 AM EST
By Colin Perkel
TORONTO (CP) - A Christian activist who garnered international headlines as a hostage in Iraq is joining a protest march against Canada's system of detaining suspected foreign terrorists indefinitely without charge or trial.
James Loney, who spent four months in captivity in Iraq, planned to catch up with the "freedom caravan" in Belleville, Ont., on Tuesday.
In an interview, Loney told The Canadian Press that he feels both an obligation to, and kinship with, the Muslim men currently detained as threats to national security.
He said he was especially grateful that three of the detainees wrote an open letter in early December, just days after he was kidnapped, urging his captors to free their hostages.
"That was a gesture of solidarity that moved me very deeply," said Loney. "So, I feel personally obliged to speak out for them."
Loney was one of four members of Christian Peacemaker Teams snatched off the streets of Baghdad in late November, one of whom was later shot dead.
Three of the activists, who sought to highlight the plight of thousands of Iraqis detained without charge by American and British forces in Iraq, were rescued at the end of March by coalition forces.
Loney said he felt there were "parallels" between his situation as a hostage and the suspected terrorists, who have languished in detention for between four and six years.
"I didn't know when I was going to be freed (or) know really why I was being held," said Loney.
"It was an unjust deprival of my liberty in the same way that someone who's in jail in Canada . . . without charge." The protest march began Saturday in Toronto and will end June 10 in Ottawa, where a week-long vigil will take place.
The vigil will coincide with Supreme Court of Canada hearings on the constitutionality of the national security certificates and indefinite detention.
Five Muslims are currently designated as threats to national security.
Three of the men - Mohammad Mahjoub, Mahmoud Jaballah and Hassan Almrei - are being held without charge.
A fourth, Adil Charkaoui, has been released under severe bail conditions, while the fifth, Mohamed Harkat, was granted bail under house arrest but remains in jail while the government appeals that ruling.
Protest co-ordinator Matthew Behrens, of the Campaign to Stop Secret Trials in Canada, said it's important to draw attention to the injustice of the security certificate regime.
"We have an issue of national importance which is being discussed at the Supreme Court," said Behrens.
"We feel that it's really crucial to spend a lot of time on the road going from community to community sharing the story of what's been going on with secret trials."
Loney said he would also take part in the protest planned for Wednesday outside the new Kingston immigration holding facility in Millhaven, Ont., where the detainees are on hunger strikes.
"They're being held without charge, without access to the evidence against them (and) being held indefinitely, without the possibility of appeal," Loney said.
"It's just unconscionable."


In my opinion, this guy needs to be flown over Iraq, and kicked out the door. While the Loadie shouts...."How do like your freedom now Looney??"

gingernut
8th Dec 2006, 16:27
Totally disagree with Kembers strategy, but somewhere in my probably misguided mind is a spark of admiration for the bloke- I'm not sure why though.

AcroChik
8th Dec 2006, 17:11
WW2 prisoners of war have met their Japanese former captors. I know of several Vietnam War veterans who have travelled to that country and met their former enemies. In an Amish community in Pennsylvania where children were murdered and wounded in a school, people have found a way to forgive the assailant. Perhaps this is some people's way of coming to grips with and finding closure with horribly traumatic experiences. Others, though, might say, "Stockholm syndrom."

XXTSGR
8th Dec 2006, 17:56
In my opinion, this guy needs to be flown over Iraq, and kicked out the door. While the Loadie shouts...."How do like your freedom now Looney??"So in your opinion, people have to accept things your way or be killed? Interesting view. And that, of course, is the (totally wrong) accusation thrown at Muslims... :rolleyes:

While I don't entirely agree with him on the matter of respect for those who gave their lives for my freedom, he has a position on his kidnappers which does him a great deal of credit, as did the Amish community referred to by AcroChik. He doesn't deserve OT's OTT response.

Capt. Queeg
8th Dec 2006, 17:59
Yes, the poor old muslims..... always being unfairly blamed when all they want is peace. Let's have a minutes silence for them, shall we? :rolleyes:

frostbite
8th Dec 2006, 18:11
Must admit, when I first heard about this I thought 'what a bunch of prats'.


Still think that.

Ozzy
8th Dec 2006, 18:53
I am surprised they have not gone back to Iraq to spread their peace. I for one would be happy to chip in for the tickets. Shall we have whip round for them. Would they need one way or return tickets?:ugh:

Ozzy

Ontariotech
9th Dec 2006, 03:29
So in your opinion, people have to accept things your way or be killed?

No.....he should go back there and personally forgive them......in person. Then, when they take him hostage again, and throw him into a makeshift prison, can we ask Looney, "how do you like your freedom now?"

Why do people take things so literally 'round 'ere?:rolleyes:

308Win
9th Dec 2006, 09:08
This gentleman may be entitled to his opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with his standpoint. It is his choice not to wear a poppy, but I for one will always wear one with pride. If it weren't for those who did make the ultimate sacrifice and continue to do so today, he would not be enjoying such freedoms today.
Unfortunately it comes to all societies at some point that they have to compromise on some of their ideals in order to protect their land/culture/way of life and to have dissenting voices is part of the process. However, to let the PC liberals preach peace/love and harmonious integration with certain groups believe is a total fallacy but in contrast I would not ever want to see a totalitarian military state ruled by fear (see N Korea).
As one who lives in a sandy place amongst the locals and sees a decidedly non-Christian view every day, I may have a skewed view on life, but my attitudes have hardened in response to the exposure to the religion and culture not the other way.
Perhaps some of the liberals and those preaching love and harmonious living should read certain religious tomes from this side of the world originating rom about 630AD and tell me how much peace and tolerance is quoted therein. I have and a lot more to boot and it is not what one might expect.

tony draper
9th Dec 2006, 09:16
If the BBC started charged these buggas who seem to be able to demand free publicity via the news channels for their A new book/Album/movie/play/protest or publicity for their feckwit organisations we would not have to pay their outragious bloody licence.
:rolleyes:

click
9th Dec 2006, 09:33
"They're being held without charge, without access to the evidence against them (and) being held indefinitely, without the possibility of appeal," Loney said.
Errrr, that's what being a threat to national security gets you...I am sure that the judge signing the warrant had to have a valid reason to do so. Poor misguided pinko tree hugger, why doesn't he do his revolutionary caravan to ground zero and hold a week long protest there. On second thought, I'd put him on the list as a threat to national security and keep his ass out of the US. Makes me vomit to think that the freedom of speech he's hiding behind was won with blood and the dastarb doesn't have enough common sense to at least pay respects to the fallen.

XXTSGR
9th Dec 2006, 12:22
Errrr, that's what being a threat to national security gets you...And how does anyone know they're a threat to national security? They're not told the charges or evidence against them, so are given no chance to defend themselves. How can you establish that there hasn't been a mistake concerning identity? How can you know that they're not being held on trumped-up charges?

This sort of thing is a total disgrace to any western "democracy". It's one of the things we were told we were invading Iraq to prevent - totalitarian abuse of power. It is not enough for justice to be done - even if it's locking up "threats to security". Justice must be seen to be done. Furthermore, anyone who willingly sacrifices hard-won personal liberty for temporary security will not be entitled to either, and will be given neither. We are fast heading down a very dangerous road to totalitarian government. It's time to wake up and realise that those who govern us are slowly and quietly accruing to themselves more and more power. Mark the words of Herman Goering and Julius Caesar:-"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood and narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

- Julius Caesar.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country.

- Herman Goering (second in command to Adolf Hitler) at the Nuremberg Trial

BenThere
9th Dec 2006, 14:05
While I respect true forgiveness and charity in the heart, these guys to me aren't worth spit. Blinkered hypocrites.

Two's in
9th Dec 2006, 15:37
Couldn't agree more; legal representation, presumption of innocence, the right to a fair trial, and the right to see the evidence against you have always struck me as just the sort of thing those communist back-sliders and left wing faggots would be demanding. Give 'em a bit of real justice I say, lock 'em up when they look a bit odd, or if they're strangely brown, or if their neighbor reports they are a bit suspicious. Why should these ba$tards get the same kind of justice as I do - the very thought of it makes my blood run cold. We're not out in Ragheadland giving 'em democracy for nothing you know! Outrageous to even think that Justice would be the same for all, where do they get off on this stuff? If that policy was good enough for Heinrich Himmler, it's good enough for all of us.

El Grifo
9th Dec 2006, 16:11
always struck me as just the sort of thing those communist back-sliders and left wing faggots would be demanding

Why can you not simply describe them as they are, instead of entering into this petty, pre-assumptive, pathetic load of claptrap.

it is not clever you know:ugh:

brickhistory
9th Dec 2006, 17:46
Irony?!



Just like bronzy or goldy................

Ontariotech
10th Dec 2006, 03:13
And how does anyone know they're a threat to national security?

We don't, hence the issue at hand of them not yet being charged. Obviously, someone somewhere has felt they pose a higher risk than the average citizen.

The beauty of our system, as opposed to the system that Mr. Looney, and fellow peacemakers where held captive under, is that you'll still be alive, well fed, and may even get an apology when you eventually get out. That is of coarse your not involved in any terrorist activities.

And Just look at the Maher Arar case. We screwed up. RCMP commish just recently resigned his position.

So while you say, this is a disgrace to any western "democracy", I couldn't disagree more. These Christian Peacekeepers are a disgrace to any western "democracy". They should not be allowed into these areas in the first place.



Furthermore, anyone who willingly sacrifices hard-won personal liberty for temporary security will not be entitled to either, and will be given neither. We are fast heading down a very dangerous road to totalitarian government. It's time to wake up and realise that those who govern us are slowly and quietly accruing to themselves more and more power. Mark the words of Herman Goering and Julius Caesar:-

totalitarian government?????

My government in Canada just changed hands 10 months ago, democratically elected. The UK Government is due for change in the coming year, again, it will be democratically elected. In 2008, the USA will democratically elect a new President, and government.

So I fail to see how we are heading down any dangerous road towards totalitarian government????

matt_hooks
10th Dec 2006, 03:42
totalitarian government?????
My government in Canada just changed hands 10 months ago, democratically elected. The UK Government is due for change in the coming year, again, it will be democratically elected. In 2008, the USA will democratically elect a new President, and government.
So I fail to see how we are heading down any dangerous road towards totalitarian government????[/QUOTE]

And such a blinkered attitude is exactly what the government requires to pass such dangerous legislation!

In our western democracies, the right to fair trial, the right to at least see any evidence against you is (or at least should be) inalienable. How can ANYONE properly defend themself against an allegation if they don't even know what the allegation is?

I have to admit I do find the attitude of those held hostage a little strange, I'm sure I wouldn't feel like that. What I would never seek to do is stop them from expressing such opinions and attitudes. Much as I would not try and stop people from taking snide swipes at them on internet forums. Yes, we might find it somewhat strange but at least we have the chance to listen to what they have to say and assess it for ourselves.

With the limitation of free speech and removal of such concepts as trial by jury and the laws of natural evidence that is occuring at the moment, in the name of "NATIONAL SECURITY" and "THE WAR ON TERROR" we are seeing, day by day, our rights as members of some of the greatest democracies severely undermined.

And yes, we CAN vote for who we want to govern the country, but when they are chosen they seem to take this as carte blanche to renege on any promise they made in order to get elected if it turns out to be inconvenient for them to follow it through.

Ontariotech
10th Dec 2006, 13:49
And yes, we CAN vote for who we want to govern the country, but when they are chosen they seem to take this as carte blanche to renege on any promise they made in order to get elected if it turns out to be inconvenient for them to follow it through.
I disagree with that. If the majority of people do not want something done, they must let the government know. When they do, the government will act, and it will change it's course. A message was just sent to the US government, to change it's coarse in Iraq. A huge message. The House and the Senate are in Democratic Control. 3 years into the Iraq, conflict, people are finally tired, so they want change. And Presto, we have change.
As for the US......just look at the 2004 elections? Armed with the knowledge that the 2001 elections were basically stolen......the Majority of free citizens voted again for the same guy? And the same party, that a mere 2 years later, is stuck in a time warp.
As for Tony Blair......
The labour party won the 1997 General Election
The Labour Party also won the 2001 General Election
The Labour Party won the Thursday 5 May 2005 general election and a third consecutive term in office
Longest Serving Prime Minister in British History.
So I guess the elections were rigged then eh? After all, they can do as they want in some peoples eyes.
And such a blinkered attitude is exactly what the government requires to pass such dangerous legislation!

Oh really? So what do you suggest would prevent these governments from passing such dangerous legislation? And traveling down this dangerous road?
Are holding democratic, free, elections, and removing the government not enough for you?

308Win
10th Dec 2006, 14:35
I don't think anyone will agree that democracy is perfect and there will always be those who will take advantage of it. Unfortunately, politicians tend to be the bottom feeders of the genetic gene pool, most won't have held a real job, won't have wondered how they will survive the following month on a hand to mouth existence, but will be from the so called "political elite" - involved in politics since the day they could pin whatever coloured rosette to their ill fitting suit. Please tell me no-one writing here would willingly go out for a few beers with anyone in the government/shadow cabinet for anything other than a joke.
The majority will have their own agenda and will see it done regardless of what the unwashed masses think. They will dress it up in any guise they can to make it not look like a horse suppository, but only when it's too late do you realise where they have put it. The government spent more time debating fox hunting (that great class divide) than they did over whether to send men and women to war to die and sink billions of pounds of taxpayers money. They couldn't even get the foxhunting bill through without the clubhammer of the parliament act. I don't think we should even dare touch on the shake up of the house of lords, filling them up with Tonies Cronies.
Don't get me wrong, they are all as bad as each other and I wouldn't trust any politician as far as I could throw one, but democracy is the ONLY way to go. However, I feel the voice of the average man in the street, middle England (or middle Scotland/Wales/N Ireland before anyone castigates me for being Anglo centric), is being lost under a cacophony of professional whingers and minority groups.

Does anyone out there know how the voice of reason from Mr 2.1 Children and his wife get heard? I sure as hell don't - they are to busy paying their taxes and trying to be decent citizens of whatever community they are from to pay too much heed to the little injustices and reductions in their personal freedoms at the hands of our so-called leaders.

Leading us where is what I want to know..... :*