View Full Version : Your fed up of UK and are leaving - but where & why?

8th Dec 2006, 08:18
Consider the following scenario: You log onto Pprune most days and constantly read about all the negative issues surrounding living in the UK, and see that so many people say they left for pastures new. You start to think about this a little and realise the following things:

Ø Your fed up of the current tax situation – I.e. being raped on it.
Ø Your fed up of your government and how they seem to look after others before you (I.e. it’s own people)
Ø Your fed up of all the money being spent on the above point.
Ø Your sick of seeing every penny you earn shoot straight out of your bank the moment it goes in.
Ø You hate the house price situation and wonder why people in other countries seem to have fantastic houses for a lot less than what we pay.
Ø You can’t stand any negative impact generated by immigration.
Ø A few other things that boil your piss: Inheritance tax, the more you earn the more you pay to our beloved government, more tax, the weather (ok had to throw that one in).

So, you are leaving the UK to live and work somewhere else with your partner.

Where do you go and why? And if you disagree with someone, give us one good reason why you do.


8th Dec 2006, 08:26
This has been asked before and clearly is a growing, nagging doubt in many people's minds. Personally, being near retirement age, France beckons. I can cope with the French manners but in short the countryside is every bit as stunning as England except there is more of it, or less swathes of concrete or proposed concrete. Food is great, booze and wine seriously cheap, close enough to go back and visit the kids, roads are considerably better.

Alternatively Oz is good, preferably without the manic sports culture.

I'm also open to other ideas!

8th Dec 2006, 08:29
Did it myself 15 years ago to Perth Western Australia. Clean city, affordable housing (and better quality than England), good lifestyle and currently booming job wise. It also has many of the benefits of the UK such as a national health and welfare system.

Oh and the booze and wine are cheap here too. You have to admire a country with drive through bottle shops.

Duff beer
8th Dec 2006, 08:41
Couldn't agree more. Im counting the days till I can escape to a place where my hard-working, law-abiding nature will count for me, not against.

Spent a lot of time in Canada, was very impressed with British Columbia and Alberta, Vancouver and Calgary are both stunning.

Oz is another awesome place, who at the moment are looking for Brits to emigrate. They do it the right way though; 'You can come as long as you can contribute positively to the country'. (unlike the open door free-for-all UK).

Never been to NZ, but everyone I know who has been there falls in love with the place. Again they are looking for Brits with skills to move over.

Wherever you go, get me a beer, I wont be far behind.

8th Dec 2006, 08:42
and on the flip side, i've been looking at moving to the UK from NZ - some of the pros & cons from this side:


better $$ - 100k quid is 3 times better than nz$100k
opportunity for young persons - working and university
enzed is a long way from anywhere.


my $600k home here could not be replicated for less than a million pounds
i've got a beach house at whitianga - impossible to replace.
the flying is great. my pitts costs $200/hr (inclusive) to fly
house hold income is around $180k not working too hard
my kids are relatively safe
enzed is a long way from anywhere.

for the meantime, i'm staying put. a jet job in the uk would be nice, not likely to get above a TP one here, but i'll cope.

8th Dec 2006, 09:05
If I was to go anywhere it would be NZ. The only place in the world I have been where the places actually look better than the postcard snaps!! However, people are naive if they think all the problems disappear. My brother lives in Wellington and despairs of the education system for my Nephew. He will be sending him overseas for his Uni education. The favourite destination seems to be Aus but I have had three sets of friends go their over the last 10 years. Two are back and one is waiting to get enough cash to come home. Their reasons are varied but mainly come down to the fact that they are/were surprised at just how alien the culture is. R4+Z mentioned Perth. Even the Aussies think of Perth as foriegn because it is so full of Pomms!
I have been lucky enough to live all over the world but I have to say I would not leave this country again, despite it's many many faults. It is not until you have been away that you truly appreciate what we have here. IMHO anyway.

8th Dec 2006, 09:17
have to agree with the tertiary education, although for 90% of kiwis, it's acceptable, as thy have no intention of leaving. in an international setting though, an english/sydney/euro university has much better kudos. my wife has a phd from sydney university (done long distance thanks to staff travel) and as a direct result of that has UN work and travels to new york and europe. not something that would happen easily with a university of waikato post grad qual.

8th Dec 2006, 10:13
However, people are naive if they think all the problems disappear.
Interesting - I think your right and that it's important to understand the old saying - "the grass always appears greener....."

To move to another country takes a lot of guts and involves giving up a lot of things (house, job, family, friends) Sh*t thats quite a lot :ooh:

Big decision - Australia and NZ seem to be popular, however, there has to be a lot more con's - I just don't know!


Matt Skrossa
8th Dec 2006, 10:31
I am going to leave the UK because too many people don't know the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE
For example:
YOUR leaving the UK because... should be.... YOU'RE leaving the UK etc etc

Example of both words used correctly:

You're going on holiday, so you have to put your dog in a boarding kennel.

Wherever you go just make sure they speak and WRITE English properly!!!

8th Dec 2006, 10:48
Matt - when I have made my decision and am happy where I am, I will be glad at the fact that you will be sat in your little corner picking out words and correcting them - you must be a happy little chappy, I have included people like you on my list of reasons to leave :p

8th Dec 2006, 11:19
Any of the new entrants to the EU!

Buy a nice house there, throw away my UK passport and then come back and work in the UK. Won’t have to bother with car tax and insurance, get offered subsidised housing, free dental treatment, front of the queue for NHS treatment, and before I have to pay any tax, just move on to the next county.

In 2 to 3 years time move back to my alternative abode and live in a very unpopulated part of the World, as all the locals will be in the UK claiming human rights benefits, listening on the news as to how Gormless Gordon will spend more money on health and education whilst trying to defer the Olympics for 3 years as the Olympic Village is still at the planning stage.

Failing the above then France for much the same reasons as GANNET FAN :ok:

8th Dec 2006, 11:25
11 posts and nobody mentioned the US ... sobering....

8th Dec 2006, 11:29
I am going to leave the UK because too many people don't know the difference between YOUR and YOU'RE

Someone beat me to it, so I'll have to say my reason is because too many people don't know the difference between ITS and IT'S.


I moved to America because I love freedom :ok:

8th Dec 2006, 11:30
If you had said 'opportunity' it would have made more sense.

8th Dec 2006, 11:39
Don't you just love all the cunning linguists on here :suspect:

USA - any thoughts?

8th Dec 2006, 11:44
I passed the points test for Oz emmigration a few weeks ago. Need to find a job out there though. Any offers? I'm an employed aerospace engineer in the south east! Degree educated. Multi-talented of course and a quick learner. Plugging myself here is difficult. :p

I'm fed up to the back teeth of this country and I'm only 23. And to be fair, I've got a good job and great career prospects. What does that mean for the rest of the young folk my age that don't??

Sad, very sad indeed.

Duff beer
8th Dec 2006, 11:45
11 posts and nobody mentioned the US ... sobering....

Believe it or not, it is still very difficult for Brits to get US citizenship. I asked one chap why that was, he said "Its because the Brits are still the only people who intimidate us".

Seriously though the US would be a great place to live, lovely people, good standard of living, the best thing though about having a US passport would be NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE RUDEST MOST ARROGANT, IGNORANT IMMIGRATION IN THE WORLD.

8th Dec 2006, 11:50
Never been there, but I have fancied Bulgaria for years - cheap property and cost of living, beautiful varied scenery etc..

Only daunting thing is new language using a new alphabet.

8th Dec 2006, 12:24
Matt - when I have made my decision and am happy where I am, I will be glad at the fact that you will be sat in your little corner picking out words and correcting them - you must be a happy little chappy, I have included people like you on my list of reasons to leave :p

Hi Mazzy, you better include me on that list. Just don't know why the word "sat" is so misused. Gramatically so wrong. I was sat...Bet you weren't taught that. I was seated or sitting but not sat

One good reason for bu88ering off abroad, at least you won't hear the English language mutilated

OK I'm up for it...have a go

8th Dec 2006, 12:35
.... the best thing though about having a US passport would be NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE RUDEST MOST ARROGANT, IGNORANT IMMIGRATION IN THE WORLD.
If you're referring to UK Immigration, then how come so many people want to come here? :hmm: :rolleyes:

I have quite a few friends who have left the UK and gone elsewhere; in every case, they have either returned or are planning on returning. The grass is not always greener and there are downsides to every place.

Personally, I would stay in the UK (maybe go to Ireland) as it's better the devil you know and, let's face it, there are many good reasons to want to live here.



8th Dec 2006, 12:37
Can all you smart and clever people end the fact that this is a speling lesson and get back to the originil topic? The sarcastic hint has been well and truly taken :rolleyes:

Thanks Whirly....

8th Dec 2006, 12:38
I hope your tongue was well and truly in your cheek when you typed that Mazzy!:}



8th Dec 2006, 12:40
Moi? Sarcy?

8th Dec 2006, 12:42
If you're referring to UK Immigration, then how come so many people want to come here? :hmm: :rolleyes:

I have quite a few friends who have left the UK and gone elsewhere; in every case, they have either returned or are planning on returning. The grass is not always greener and there are downsides to every place.

Personally, I would stay in the UK (maybe go to Ireland) as it's better the devil you know and, let's face it, there are many good reasons to want to live here.


WhirlsIt's all relative methinks Whirly. Example, the Mexicans are illegally coming over the border to the USA in droves to earn more money. The Venezualans are doing a similar thing migrating illegally into Mexico!!

I have UK friends who, having spent 10 years in Texas, decided to move back to the UK "as they had had enough". They lasted exactly one week in England and were back in Texas the following week. An expensive lesson learned.


8th Dec 2006, 13:01
Mazzy, a good thing to keep in mind is that wherever you move, you will always bring yourself along. Quality of life is not an absolute, it is your perception. Your perception is mainly decided not by external factors but by your own outlook. Unless you radically change your outlook at the same time, your quality of life will not change significantly by moving country.

Also, as long as we are speaking of developed countries, if you have the ability to make a go of life, you will have that ability regardless of location.

Thirdly, any change of country involves a trade-off. If external factors (for example the wx) have a big impact on your happiness, try and make a list of those factors and find a country that fits the bill. A country that gives you your do-likes without exacting a too high price in don't-likes.
And as Wyler says, unless you have actually lived abroad for a significant amount of time, you have no idea of the importance if that bedrock feeling of safety engendered by living where you "belong".
Few people are good at being an happy eternal alien.

I'm not a native English speaker, so all language pedants can refrain from raising their BP :p

8th Dec 2006, 13:02
I have lived (and worked) in seven countries for a minimum of a year other than my native UK. I have visited too many others to list here! I have even emigrated and returned.

I frequently wonder what I am doing back here after living in places with a far nicer climate, lower taxes, better housing, superior lifestyle, etc. etc.. Then I remember that the UK is MY country and if there are changes occurring that I do not like then as a voter I should attempt to elect a party that will correct those changes.

Also remember that ALL countries have their problems as well as advantages.

Still, if someone offers me a job at an attractive rate with a good package somewhere nice I might be tempted one more time!:)

8th Dec 2006, 13:04
We're leaving for British Columbia next summer, Canadian residency cards turned up this morning! It's a long old process, and the processing queue through the London embassy gets longer month on month (18 months when we applied; upwards of 40 now I believe for an unrestricted skilled worker application - although there are other, faster, routes for those in particular fields of employment).

No-one really made much of a point of the fact that emigration from the UK is now higher than at any time in history this year (as the figure was overshadowed by the volume of those inbound) but I’d wager those departing form quite a different demographic to those arriving!

We did think long and hard about NZ, I love the place and it would have been easier (and quicker!) for the missus to transfer her healthcare qualifications there than it has been for Canada. However, I've lived in BC before and knowing the negatives as well as the positives can be quite the plus. It's also a lot closer for friends and family to visit than NZ or Aus.

For lots of entertaining flamefests on Britain vs the rest of the world (especially in "Moving back to the UK"), have a look at the britishexpats.com forums!

Emigration seems to be an incredibly divisive issue among those who are considering it, have done it, or have returned after doing it. I think the fact it's such a BIG move makes for some very defensive justification for and against along the lines of (moving) "there's nowhere WORSE than Britain and we can't WAIT to get out" and (returning) "Good LORD why did we ever leave, I miss EVERYTHING about Britain and can't wait to get back!"

I think as long as your pull factors for moving elsewhere outnumber your push factors you should be Ok!

8th Dec 2006, 13:04
Thank you all for the posts...

Judd - thanks, I like your way of thinking on that, quite right there....

8th Dec 2006, 13:07
The grass is always greener on the other side.

Depends what you want, I suppose. The UK is not without its problems, but on balance I still think it's a great country to live in.

8th Dec 2006, 13:26
Then I remember that the UK is MY country

It's mine too, but it's still shIt. Morale has never been lower.

Buster Hyman
8th Dec 2006, 13:29

"Johnny! Shut the gate. We got some aliens sniffing at our doorstep again!":}

8th Dec 2006, 13:44
I heard (on http://www.france24.com - live feed) this morning, that Romanians are already leaving (for the EU - though whether legally isn't clear) leaving 'skill shortages' which are being filled by an influx of Chinese workers. The logic (of the Chinese influx) is that they in turn will qualify for entry into other EU countries . . .


8th Dec 2006, 14:09
I was up visiting some relatives about 40 miles North from here, and stopped off in a little graveyard that houses my Grandparents, and several more generations back. As it happens Mrs C's grandparents are in there also.
I don't find graveyards melancholy places - they are for the immediately bereaved, but they provide you with a tangible sense of belonging, and a link through the ages. Those graves all tell a real human story - men lost at sea and their widows reunited with them 40 years later, whole households falling victim to TB, Parents outliving all their children, and the more comforting ones, long lines of family all living out good and long lives.
You walk among the graves, the salty wind blowing the marram grass on the dunes, the grey sky and the grey sea, the grey buildings of the village huddled together beyond the cemetery wall. I belong there, I feel deep roots, its home. Something you would imagine laying down your life to preserve in some distant battlefield, with thoughts of home in your dimming consciousness. I've done my globetrotting and this grey windswept corner of the globe remains my anchor. I'll not abandon it without a fight.

8th Dec 2006, 14:11
I've met shed loads of people who live in the UK and havn't really opened their eyes to its beauty.

Even when in the midst of its grime, you don't have to look (or travel) far before your in somewhere as stunning as the Lake District, as wild as the Peak District, as bracing as the South West Coast, or as peaceful as watching the sun rise over the mist in the Cheshire planes.

Come on Maz, even your location can look pretty good if you get to the right view point.

According to the academics, who pertain to study the science of being happy, our psychological wellbeing is directly related to the beauty of our surroundings.

Perhaps I'm being a little "rose tinted," but aint anyone got anything to good to say about our brill country:confused: :)

8th Dec 2006, 14:17
but aint anyone got anything to good to say about our brill country
I think that's the problem unfortunately :sad:

It's not the physical surroundings that get me down, I agree we have some fantastic landscapes and beautiful areas - it is purely the way the country is run - perhaps from a political point of view? I feel that one's life is purely dictated by the way the country is run, and going back to my original points, the house price situation is a good one.

8th Dec 2006, 14:20
Cheerio :D :ok:

Very eloquently put!



8th Dec 2006, 14:23
Cheerio you inspired me to start a new thread. :ok:

I know exactly what you mean.

Where my Father's side of the family are buried is just a little patch of Heaven on Earth. All those names. All my relatives. The sun filtering through the Oak Trees, the Daffodils waving in the breeze. Gorgeous and so very peaceful.

8th Dec 2006, 14:42
I think that's the problem unfortunately :sad:

It's not the physical surroundings that get me down, I agree we have some fantastic landscapes and beautiful areas - it is purely the way the country is run - perhaps from a political point of view? I feel that one's life is purely dictated by the way the country is run, and going back to my original points, the house price situation is a good one.

Mazzy, forget about my rude grammar lesson! What you say here is absolutely on the button. I spent 10 years abroad, couldn't wait to get back and when I did I just could not believe how much the London I knew had changed. I love this country but find it getting harder to reconcile my feelings with the most aspects of life now. House prices, yes thanks. Christmas being downsized no thanks.
A happy Christmas to you

8th Dec 2006, 14:58
GF - forgotten :ok:

I could go on about house prices forever - one thing I discovered as I became a PPL is that this country is mostly green (understand a lot of it is agricultural) so why is property so damn expensive? I got on the property ladder this summer (live with Gf who is full time nurse) and am struggling, but can cope (just about) I feel more and more sorry for the first time buyers each day, and wonder how the hell they are ever going to manage.

I got a letter from Inland Revenue a few months back basically saying something along the lines of "You may have paid too much tax, send us your P60 and we will re-calculate". Got a reply yesterday saying that I have underpaid by £120 :mad:

I spent about 5 years of my life studying and gathering work experience, to get the good job I am in now (including a very low paid full time GAP year) and was lucky to have parents who would pay THOUSANDS for my studies (oh and we had to pay £500 to the uni for me to work in the NHS for a year :confused:) - and then I get shafted by the fact that I can only just about afford to live and not enjoy what good things this country has to offer. This is in comparison to Tommo who goes to Kavos every year, has fourteen kids, brings back 1000 fags, never done a days work (never will), gets everything paid for and has a whale of a time laughing at the likes of me and you. Do I join Tommo?

The more you earn and the more successful you are, the more you are shafted because our govenment love to feed the lazy. There's a Robin Hood phrase in there somewhere. My father passed away this year and you wouldn't believe the money it has cost for my Mother to get everything sorted - £900 to a solicitor for one sheet of paper that allows the Will to be released or something :mad: like that. And don't even get me started on inheritance tax.

I think this is probably the biggest rant I have ever had on Pprune.

8th Dec 2006, 14:59
I grew up in Belgium, went to university in the USA, and now I'm living in Turkey. You have no idea how much I regret moving here. Make your decision wisely, because it will have a huge impact on the rest of your life. Each time you move you're starting from scratch, new friends, new home, new job, new everything. Maybe there are a lot of things you don't like about where you live, but BELIEVE ME, you will find new things to HATE when you move.

Also, seriously, learn the difference between "you're" and "your", it really is annoying to see a presumably native speaker mess that up.

8th Dec 2006, 15:00
Also, seriously, learn the difference between "you're" and "your", it really is annoying to see a presumably native speaker mess that up.
Thanks for that - I feel better now :mad: If something like that "annoys" you then you may have other issues.

I have changed the :mad: title. And yes I am native - I truly apologise for my mistake.

Tricky Woo
8th Dec 2006, 15:25
I've (obviously) come across a hell of a lot of Brit expats over the years, and heard many many stories as to how they'd arrived here.

I can't remember a single one who said they'd left the UK to protest against this or that, or because they couldn't stand the bloody weather. What they all had in common was that they all ran towards something, rather than away from something. The old tart put it very succinctly (as always, clever lady), but I'll paraphrase 'cos I'm like that: leave Blighty in a huff, if yer will, but you'll be bringing yer huff with yer. And those amongst you who really have got it in for the UK enough to walk out on it hardly have the level of tolerance that yer'd need to live happily amongst the natives.

Ergo, yer all gob and no trousers. As usual.


8th Dec 2006, 15:28
As usual.


8th Dec 2006, 15:31

When I first moved to Perth I had the conviction that If I had to sweep the streets to earn a living, I would. As things turned out I got a job in my area of expertise and built on that. But I was lucky!

If you are going to change countries be sure you know what you are up against. As an example when I got here I found out that I needed a license to work in my own trade (a fact that hadn't been revealed to me before I got here). Fortunately I am a quick learner and read the manuals and passed the exam at first sitting. Things may be different in your trade.

Cross the Ts and Dot the Is before you make any move!!!!

8th Dec 2006, 15:39
What happened with the girl, PanPan?
I think we should be told . . .


8th Dec 2006, 15:41
All good points, which shows how subjective leaving, by choice, your country of birth can be.

I left UK 26 years ago for a better job, and found it. I left with a mental attitude (tortology??) that I was emigrating, and it stood me in good stead for the occasions when the pull of the old country came.

The things you miss, I have found, are the college friends you left behind. Bonds for life are forged in the shared stress of finals, the unspoken support during relationship problems, knowing that you could go round for a cup of tea any time..... if they lived in the same country.

Beyond that the self development of leaving your country, the self assurance that it gives once you have found success and the fascination of being able to look at your own country objectively is the most amazing experience.

It is not easy to make the break, and when you have made it there is still a lot of hard work to integrate with and make a good stab at your life in your chosen country.

If it works, it will be the best thing that you have every done. If not, and you return, the tail between your legs will be for a relatively short time. So the down side can be arranged to be containable.

If I choose to leave my present home which as you see is HKG, I shall move on, not back. That is the priviledge of the international gypsy.

8th Dec 2006, 16:33
G-CPTN, I'm surprised you remembered/cared enough to ask. As it happens, we just broke up last Sunday after almost 8 months together... that could possibly explain why I'm so down on my life here in Turkey. No, thats not it, I hate my job, and I actually hate the fact that its a jungle here with no rules, no order, no proper civilized society. Nobody thinks like me here, I've had a western upbringing and English is my first language, despite the fact that I'm a Turk.

If you're wondering why I broke up with the girl I was so eager to be with, and tried so hard to get... there are lots of reasons. As I got to know her better and the initial excitement died down, I realised that we couldn't possibly be more wrong for eachother, our personalities are almost complete opposites. We had a good time together, and I don't regret it, but I'm afraid you won't be dancing at that wedding G-CPTN.

Can you say "thread drift"? :)

8th Dec 2006, 17:57
When I first moved to Perth I had the conviction Was that still a requirement then R4+Z?:E :E :E


8th Dec 2006, 18:31
Many thanks for all the wonderful replies (even the not-so wonderful). It has given me some good grounds to think on and alter my own personal opinion.

Tricky-Woo - I would still like to know why you have that opinion of me.

Maz :ok:

8th Dec 2006, 18:59

Here goes - God rot the politicians and the Civil Service, but I have had the good fortune to still be living where I was born, and where I will leave feet first.

I am eight miles from Manchester on the first slopes of the Pennines, and thanks to sorting the inheritance tax and family settlement nightmares that can beset us all set it fair for my lifetime - and will have to do it all again no doubt for others.

I am surrounded by my family, my toys, my friends and my heritage.

As a family we have travelled, but home is where you return to, and hopefully where you have made enough to have a decent lifestyle.

But as you get older one little factor may drop in which colours all your options.

Get yourself a lifetime diagnosis and see how far your self reliance might take you anywhere else.

Once in that boat you are probably confined to barracks anyway as you will miss one very necessary tick in the box - and life and employabity in such as the US may take on a very different complexion.

Just my take on things

8th Dec 2006, 19:01
I came to live here in Southern California about 5-1/2 years ago. I was not epscially fed up of the UK as such - I just came across an interesting job opportunity which I applied for. As it happened the whole thing ended up being made very easy by the hiring company - due to engineer shortage at the time they were recuiting overseas so they came to the UK to do the interviews. I was made an offer to either work in Maryland or here in San Diego. The weather won! As I applied more as an experiment I was not sure what do when the offer was made but decided to accept just to see what life was like here. The company did everything - arranged and paid for the move, did all the visa stuff and also applied for and got my green card.

Most of the others who came out here from the UK are still here and have no plans to return. I'm not sure what to do in the long term but am comfortable here at the moment.

The early days were quite frusting like trying to get the first credit card or mortgage and at times I felt like packing up and heading back but all that sorted itself out after a few months.

8th Dec 2006, 19:44
Interesting that apart from hong kong no one has mentioned anywhere in asia. personaly if the right job came along and if my kids would let me I would move to malaysia in a heartbeat. Housing is cheap enough to buy a nice house out there and buy a flat / small house in the UK (as an occasional bolthole) with the proceeds of my house.
Just wish I had the nerve to do it!!

8th Dec 2006, 20:39
i thought the only reason people moved BACK to the UK from NZ/Aus was that no-one listened to their whingeing about how great it was 'back in UK'

8th Dec 2006, 23:18
no one has mentioned anywhere in asia.

I call dibs on Singapore, and hang the cost.

Everybody needs a 'fraidy hole for when the excrement hits the blades. For the USA, I figure it'll be in about 10 years, when all W's Iraq War promissory notes come due....

8th Dec 2006, 23:30
I must congratulate Australians on their coining of the phrase "whinging poms" in spite of the fact our illiterate and uncultured cousins have the most tedious and whinging accent of all!

Worth a new thread - apart from being good at sport - what the f*** else worthwhile has ever come out of Oz apart from low IQs?

9th Dec 2006, 03:57

My dear chap. Touchy about the cricket? Or maybe just one of these - http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

Loose rivets
9th Dec 2006, 03:59
Eeee lad, don't thy know? The cat were sat on the mat...imagine, the cat were seated on the mat. It'd make no sense at all.

Tricky Woo
9th Dec 2006, 07:21
Not directed at you personally, Mr Mazzy. It was directed at the usual group of Brit-bashing Brits.

If I had a penny for every "I'm leaving the country 'cos I can't stand...Blair/weather/Birmingham/tax/speed cameras/food/pub hours/vaginal thrush" post I've read here, I'd have enough to pay for another pacific island coup. Erm, I mean I'd have lots of dosh. People 'run away' migrate for a variety of reasons, but I'd put the escape of abject poverty and/or serious threats to their physical security as being high on the list of reasons to do so. Unless I'm missing something, such conditions don't apply to the UK.

For the few who really aren't getting rich enough in the UK and fancy their chances abroad (a sort of softened 'running away from') well consider the following: in almost every first world country there are plenty of local people just like yourselves who also aren't getting as rich as they'd like. And they speak the lingo, understand how the country works, and in effect have a myriad of practical advantages that you won't have when yer get there. In short, in life's game of snakes and ladders, there's a whopping big snake just outside the airport arrival gate called "local advantage".

So why leave Blighty at all? Well, that's where the 'running towards' scenario comes in. For the adventure? For the character building? For the food, weather and fine wines? For the sheer hell of it? Cos you fancy foreign birds? All healthy and positive reasons.

But most of us just end up as expats, with little or no conscious planning. Common stories I've heard...

Job offer - "The phone rang, and I thought 'why not', nowt much better to do..."

Marriage - "My first wife (Swiss) felt homesick for her native lands, so I moved out here. Marriage didn't last, but I sort of liked it".

Language - "My parents sent me to the language school here, and I sort of liked it..."

Totty - "Well, when I got here I realised she already had a boyfriend, but her mate fancied me, and then..."

Studying - "I studied glaciers at uni, and well there aren't many glaciers in Lancashire..."

Party - "The bars are open 24 hours, if yer know where to go..."

Daft - "I wanted to get my teeth fixed, and Switzerland has the best cosmetic dentists in Europe..."


9th Dec 2006, 09:47

Guilty as charged. I believe apologies are in order. I plead severe squiffinous in my defence and I cite an Australian Cabernet Sauvignon responsible.

That said - I still think the expression "whinging pom" is an amazing coup. Pom's may have many faults (and we're proud of them) but whining nasal accents we have not. We don't have AQI either.

Add to Tricky Woo's observations - folk who berate home and talk of emigrating usually express such desires due to disappointment in their own lives that usually have nothing to do with Blighty.

df - with a large throbber

9th Dec 2006, 09:49
A Large Throbber?

I used to have those in the mornings too.....those were the days....:{

Capt. Queeg
9th Dec 2006, 09:58
That said - I still think the expression "whinging pom" is an amazing coup. Pom's may have many faults (and we're proud of them) but whining nasal accents we have not

It's not about the accent, it's the fact that they NEVER STOP WHINGING.

You'd think coming from where they do, to Australia they'd never have a bad word to say about anything but as has been pointed out ehre, it's not always about the sh!thole the whinger has left, but about their own need for constant misery...

And speaking of accents, what's that quaint pommy accent where they can't pronounce their 'R's? It's either a regional thing or the poms have bred a bunch of cleft-lips who're unable to say words like, for example, "Roger." You hear it on the r/t all the time.

The nearest phonetic spelling attempt to it might be: "yyy-yoger..."

What is it with that????? :confused:

That and the really bad teeth??? Is it in-breeding?

Tricky Woo
9th Dec 2006, 10:01
Nope, we transported the inbreds years ago.


Capt. Queeg
9th Dec 2006, 10:09
Well the alternative is something less than flattering.... :ooh:

Tricky Woo
9th Dec 2006, 10:16
Heh heh heh.


Buster Hyman
9th Dec 2006, 10:24
but whining nasal accents we have not

I guess you've never met an arriving Britannia flight from Blighty then?:ugh::ugh::ugh:

9th Dec 2006, 10:37
I actually quite like the UK (moved here 8 years ago from NZ) having said that, I'm actively looking at Spain or Portugal...the whole process of bureaucracy here is way over the top, social priorities are mis-guided, and the taxation levels give poor value for money:yuk: In other areas the UK is innovative and forward thinking..its just so few and far between.
Failing Spain or Portugal, I'd go back to Oz or NZ depending on job prospects(the big drawback for Pilots) I've also looked at contracting in Asia and commuting back from NZ but thats a less attractive option than my present situation..which I hasten to add is not bad!
I think the biggest problem the UK has is its endemic "PC correctness" that seems to give rise to so many flaky and headline driven government initiatives..without addressing or confronting the underlying issues that exist (because the politicians don't want to lose votes:hmm: )

tony draper
9th Dec 2006, 10:37
Yer Captain, one of the feckers is asking for a upgrade to steerage.

9th Dec 2006, 13:26
...the whole process of bureaucracy here is way over the top,

I couldnt agree more. Its little things like my car insurance for example.

I have 4 years (UK)NCB, but because I have only held my UK license for less than a year, I am classed as an "inexperienced" driver, so cant get insured on anything more than a punto. Someone with 1 years NCB and held UK license for 1 year is more experienced than me apparently

When I was in HM Forces, I enquired about having the missus move in with me into forces accommodation

I was told by the Army: You cant coz you are not married

I enquired about getting married

I was told by the powers that be: You cant get married because your missus doesnt live with you (Different rules for different people)

Things can get way too complicated here

9th Dec 2006, 23:30
It's not about the accent, it's the fact that they NEVER STOP WHINGING.

Really? Is that true or is it actually because you want it to be true?

It sounds like a self-perpetuating myth to me.

I ain't moaning about the fact that GDP per head in UK is a country mile ahead of Australia's (and almost everybody else too). Even the poor people have cars and DVD players in the UK.

We're loaded here - it's f***ing great!!!

10th Dec 2006, 00:02
Of course, it is possible to have the best of both worlds. :}

One day we shall have to retire I suppose, and then we'll settle down near to our family in UK. As a pennyless immigrant, it'll be interesting to claim some of these 'benefits' that everyone goes on about and see how much it actually comes to.

10th Dec 2006, 02:58

Think nothing of it. A mere immoderation expressed while in the grip of the grape. May I congratulate you on your infusion of choice; and proffer thanks for supporting antipodean vignerons during both the current drought and great grape glut.

As to accents, I must respectfully demur. The UK has such a myriad of accents, some of which are pleasing to the ear, while others positively grate. IMHO, the worst by a country mile (a good Australian adage), are those incomprehensible adenoidal articulations uttered by natives of Merseyside. Others might say 'whinging scouse gits'; I can't possibly comment.

Tricky Woo
10th Dec 2006, 04:11
How dare you accuse thieving scouse gits of whinging. In my experience thieving scouse gits are incessantly cheerful. Unlike brummie gits who only stop whinging when sedated. Manc gits are neither cheerful or whinging, 'cos manc gits are the best balanced gits of all.

Hope that helps explain.

With regards to whining voices: what's the score with that aussie accent? I've already figured out that kiwis have their vocal cords severed at birth, but why oh why do aussies have such high-pitched voices? Is this as a result of natural selection? Do high pitched voices carry better through the prison plumbing?


Sultan Ismail
10th Dec 2006, 05:05
Industrial Gypsy
Not what I set out to be, however life takes its own path. My first posting out of the UK was a 3 year secondment to South Africa, 25 years later I returned.
A year later I was offered a 3 month posting in Kuala Lumpur, 12 years later I am still here.
Asia, truly Asia, if only I had known, it is the centro of the Universe, well its 3 deg above the Equator, and as I pass gracefully into retirement I am having more fun than at any time in my life.
Go East young man.

10th Dec 2006, 05:42
As an American who is in England quite often, let me just say that for all of Englands current problems [and to be sure there are many], it is still a wonderful place. The people, sense of history, sense of humor etc., are simply are unmatched anywhere in the world.

------Now I return you the your regularly scheduled bitch session----:)

10th Dec 2006, 05:51
In order to assist our residence-chained Poms I have copied this definition of whinge from the impeccable source – The Oxford English Dictionary.
Of course our current pPrune crop of whingeing Poms may dispute that Oxford is the impeccable source since it was brought into being by an ill-educated (initially) member of another race which has, forever, proved to be the equal of the Aussies at being whinged at by recalcitrant Poms.
That unfortunate, whinged-at race, although living far enough North of Hadrian’s Wall to avoid contamination, takes great pride in its lack of whingeing ability and its largesse in allowing those Poms of a whingeing persuasion to wallow in their self-inflicted misery.
They are the Scots!
Brit. informal
• verb (whingeing) complain persistently and peevishly.
• noun an act of whingeing.
— DERIVATIVES whinger noun.
— ORIGIN Old English.
So, you see, despite the fact that the Poms invented whingeing (see above – origin) there is no mention anywhere of whining, nasal accents of any sort.
Stick as many smileys here as you consider necessary.

10th Dec 2006, 08:27
I moved to Spain to retire 3.5 years ago mainly for the weather and lower cost of living. I wouldnt come back to the UK. Obviously there are problems here but nothing like the UK. I come back 2 or 3 times a year on a loco airline and my kids visit me regulary. I never thought I would do it but have not regretted it and I seem to be living with a lot of like minded people. I think the long dark winter nights clinched it. Its a good life out here but I guess, not for everyone. :ok:

10th Dec 2006, 08:38

Funny that - you instilled a modicum of doubt with your OED reference so I thumbed my trusty copy of the Oxford Dictionary of Current English (Oxford University Press).

whinge: whine, grumble peevishly

whine: dog's or child's long drawn wail, similar shrill prolonged sound; querulous tone or talk, emit or utter whine.

If that definition is good enough for Oxford dons (Oxford University is older than Australia) then its good enough for me! Stick as many smileys here as you consider necessary!

(And don't bring the Scots into it - I respect the Scots - they're as crap at sport as we are).

(Actually, I respect Aussies too, I just can't resist a playful barny)

tony draper
10th Dec 2006, 08:43
We are on the whole a decent society peopled by decent honest people but we are dragged down by a very very small percentage of that population who are pandered too and allowed to behave like baboons to do anything they like with no sanction by the elite,what we need to do is start putting some serious stick about,size ten boots up arses is long overdue.
General Mike Jackson for our next leader.:E

10th Dec 2006, 08:56
'Bout time we had a military coup.

10th Dec 2006, 08:59
If we have a military coup then I'll start a people's revolution. That will certainly liven things up a bit.

"Power to the insomniacs!"

Rather be Gardening
10th Dec 2006, 10:45
General Mike's going to have to get his teeth fixed first. Should have asked for a BOGOF when he had his undereye bags done.....

tony draper
10th Dec 2006, 11:01
You put your finger on the nub of the problem,a set of nice teeth and a winning smile gets you further in the world of politics nowadays than common sense and intelligence ,thats why we have a bunch of empty headed feckwits running the place.

Capt. Queeg
10th Dec 2006, 15:08
General Mike Jackson for our next leader.:E

What about the original Michael Jackson.... he also has a costume like that bloke has but with more braid, he's just as white, has better teeth, plus everyone's heard of him!

10th Dec 2006, 19:13
"You're fed up of the UK and leaving..."

I see more and more of this type of thread.

Unthinkable 30 years ago - we were taught that "abroad" was inferior, the French can't drink their own water - they have to have bottled stuff etc.

How times have changed.

Oh - back to the question:

Been there. Done it. Eaten the chocolate and been on top of the mountains.
And not going back to the UK.

10th Dec 2006, 19:24

I moved to America because I love freedom

Yes; lovely the way they always try to impose their freedom on everyone else (Vietnam, Korea, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc):yuk: :ugh: :yuk: :ugh: :yuk: :ugh:

Shaggy Sheep Driver
10th Dec 2006, 19:33
Don't you just love all the cunning linguists on here :suspect:

They're not cunning linguists, they're just people who care about correct use of our wonderful language.

10th Dec 2006, 19:46
Yes; lovely the way they always try to impose their freedom on everyone else (Vietnam, Korea, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc

In the interests of Jet Blast, I'll bite:

Us, imposing freedom?

Vietnam - how do you figure? We tried to aid a democratic (sort of) government from invasion from a communist country immediately to the north. We lost, but we didn't try to impose our brand of freedom simply maintain one in place.

Korea - same thing.
And if your reference was to today's North Korea, then I submit we are not trying to impose our freedom upon them. Simply ignoring them if they want to act as they do. Seems quite a difference then imposing our freedom on them.

Panama - We helped in their original secession from Columbia so we could build the canal. Can we call the 1989 invasion as a favor owed? If not, then ok, you got us.

Grenada - not sure. US citizens threatened, communists trying to establish a foothold, was it an imposition?

Iraq - ok, fair cop.

Iran - Don't think we are imposing our brand of freedom on them. I do think we should try to keep them from exporting their brand of product.

So, out of the six examples you pound your head against the wall, only one, perhaps two can be ascribed to your rant.

Oh, and why did you go no further back than Korea? Could it be because you enjoy the brand of freedom we helped restore? Twice? If so, then it's ok if we impose our brand of freedom if it helps you or your forebears out, but not so much now? Right.........:ok:

10th Dec 2006, 19:55
Brickhistory, whilst I'm not particularly disputing your assessment, wonder why the oft heard:-

When the Germans start shooting, the British duck, when the British start shooting, the Germans duck, but when the Americans start shooting everyone ducks.

10th Dec 2006, 20:31
Brickhistory, whilst I'm not particularly disputing your assessment, wonder why the oft heard:-
When the Germans start shooting, the British duck, when the British start shooting, the Germans duck, but when the Americans start shooting everyone ducks.

First time I've heard this one, but :ok:

11th Dec 2006, 01:54
Almost one in 10 British citizens are living overseas, according to a study of people coming in and out of the UK.

11th Dec 2006, 07:46
They're not cunning linguists, they're just people who care about correct use of our wonderful language.
I care too - I just don't go out my way to make a point like you have, or get annoyed by people's spelling mistakes :rolleyes: (Ok I have gone out my way here)

folk who berate home and talk of emigrating usually express such desires due to disappointment in their own lives that usually have nothing to do with Blighty.
You couldn't be any further from the truth my friend :D I will emphasise your use of "usually" :ok:

------Now I return you the your regularly scheduled bitch session----
Unfortunately, that's all it is for some people :sad:

We are on the whole a decent society peopled by decent honest people but we are dragged down by a very very small percentage of that population who are pandered too and allowed to behave like baboons to do anything they like with no sanction by the elite,what we need to do is start putting some serious stick about,size ten boots up arses is long overdue.
You put your finger on the nub of the problem,a set of nice teeth and a winning smile gets you further in the world of politics nowadays than common sense and intelligence ,thats why we have a bunch of empty headed feckwits running the place.

Couldn't agree with you more. The most honest, sensible thing said on this thread, along with people's honest and truthful opinion. (Note "honest" and "truthful").

Nice to be called a whiner by some people - I suppose to ensure the survival of any forum is to talk about nothing in general and go on with a load of old crap, not to have some decent discussion, by writing honest threads seeking genuine advice. Thanks to those who have :ok:

11th Dec 2006, 10:07
I ain't moaning about the fact that GDP per head in UK is a country mile ahead of Australia's (and almost everybody else too). Even the poor people have cars and DVD players in the UK.

We're loaded here - it's f***ing great!!!

Desert Ferret you are wrong wrong wrong wrong!!!!!

In 2005, the GDP per capita of the UK was 30,100 USD whilst the GDP per capita of Australia was 31,600 USD. The source document for all these figures is the CIA World factbook, a very handy little publication, google it. So I am guessing the only reason the poor people have cars and dvd players is because they broke into some rich buggers house and stole them.

The average life expectancy in Australia is 80.5 years versus 78.54 years in the UK. The infant mortality rate in Australia is 4.63 deaths per 1,000 births versus 5.08 deaths per thousand births.

The public debt in Australia is 16.1 % of GDP versus a whopping 43% of GDP in the UK.

According to the United Nations quality of life survey, found at this website


Australia's five biggest cities all rank in the top 31 cities in the world for quality of life (Sydney No.9, Melbourne No.17, Perth No.21, Adelaide No.29, and Brisbane No.31), whilst the UK has only one city in the top 50, being London at No.39. Even though it has only the 39th best quality of life, it is ranked the 5th most expensive city in the world to live in, whilst Sydney ranking 9th in the world for quality of life, ranks only No.19 for cost of living, and none of the other Australian cities make the top 50 for high cost of living.

Bottom line, check your facts before you make blanket statements that are clearly wrong.:ok:

11th Dec 2006, 10:34
Just flew back from Australia at the weekend and know that's where I'll be heading sooner or later (sooner hopefully). I visited Sydney, Cairns, Adelaide and Brisbane. What a B-E-A-Utiful country.

My friend moved to Adelaide 18 months ago and I got the chance to catch up with him and see where he now lives. I had two words for him - Jammy B***ard!

Only bad thing I encountered on my trip - Ozzie cricket fans at the Gabba and Adelaide Oval. The most annoying form of life I have ever met – but good fun too :)

11th Dec 2006, 10:38
As above (and also in the "aggression" thread), it's a myth that GDP and incessant growth necessarily relate to a higher quality of life. It's a factor, certainly, but it's not the only one; successful society is built on so much more.

My grandparents certainly seemed able to relate to generally happier care-free childhoods in the twenties and thirties than myself and my peers experienced, and they had only a tiny fraction of our spending power and very few material possessions.

11th Dec 2006, 11:03
My grandparents certainly seemed able to relate to generally happier care-free childhoods in the twenties and thirties than myself and my peers experienced, and they had only a tiny fraction of our spending power and very few material possessions.
You can always return to those days by abandoning television, central heating (and maybe your motor car). Oh - and the computer and the telephone (especially the mobile 'phone). Microwave oven, CDs, DVDs . . .

11th Dec 2006, 11:18
You can always return to those days by abandoning television, central heating (and maybe your motor car). Oh - and the computer and the telephone (especially the mobile 'phone). Microwave oven, CDs, DVDs . . .

Clearly not as most of those things are integral to today's society and are required to function within it. That wasn't the point of the observation, which was that GDP is not the sole measure which dictates quality of life.

Curious Pax
11th Dec 2006, 12:20
Unlike 30-40 years ago, a large percentage of the British population is now able to experience many countries first hand. As they are usually on holiday I suspect that rose-tinted specs come into play - it is a lot easier to enjoy a country when you are not trying to make a living there, or battle the local beaurocracy. Look at the statistics from that Brits Abroad survey that G-CPTN mentioned. In general you'll see that leaving aside English-speaking countries, the most popular places are also those popular with Brit holidaymakers. It would be interesting to see what the attrition rate is among those expats - number moving back within 3 years.

I am in a slightly different boat, as I only plan to be in The Netherlands relatively short term (definitely less than 5 years; was also out here for just under 5 years a decade or so ago). I don't find a great deal to whinge about because:

both my wife and I are in well paid jobs, which provides a fair degree of insulation
I speak some Dutch, but work in a multinational where English is used most of the time - hence I am not forced to use the language. As such I don't take a great deal of notice of what the local press are moaning about
it's not that different from the UK (weather, standard of living etc)

It would be interesting to hear whether people have gripes about the UK because something has happened to them personally, or because the press are making a big thing about it. Inheritance tax is a classic one - it's been around for over 200 years in different forms!! The difference now is that house price inflation has meant that many more people pay it compared to 50 years ago. An estate has to be leaving nearly 300K to get hit, so it's not exactly taking people's last pennies is it?

11th Dec 2006, 12:36
The Economist is one of a few publications worth subscribing to and they put out an annual Quality of Life (http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf) index ( PDF ). In 2005 Ireland came tops, which is a remarkable turnaround from a decade or so ago.

The United Kingdom, by contrast, ranks 29th in the world—well below its rank on income per person and bottom among the eu-15 countries. Social and family breakdown is high, offsetting the impact of high incomes and low unemployment. Its performance on health, civil liberties, and political stability and security is also below the eu-15 average.

The UN also put out a quality of life Index which makes interesting reading.

12th Dec 2006, 06:55
Left UK 9 years ago for Oz.
Why? After two years in Gibraltar returned to UK on a wet miserable November day and it rained for what seemed like 6 months. After the colour of the Med, life in Blighty seemed very black and white. Started to watch too much Rex Hunt and the Bush Tucker man on Sky on wet Sunday afternoons after the pub, and that was it, I was hooked - literally! Probably wouldnt do the swop again though! On balance it has been a great adventure; trouble is adventures normally take you away and then back home! A one way ticket is a big step particularly if you value family and friends! A mate and I discussed this very issue. He now lives in Germany after 10 years over here. He reckons France is the place to go; closer to family and friends, good food & wine etc, nice med beaches, snow covered mountains, more Euro centric,and it has more culture than Oz ! Why travel 12000 miles when you can get lifestyle after only 25 across the channel! If anyone is thinking of taking the step my advice would still be to do it. Spending the rest of your days saying "If Only" will make you more bitter and twisted - one day! Bon Chance !!


13th Dec 2006, 11:41
With at least 1.3m resident Britons, Australia is the leading destination for UK expats. And many of those who go say they won't be coming back.
Australia is a lifestyle superpower. The stunning climate, the celebrated beaches, the foaming surf, the carefree joy of tossing a marinated shrimp onto a glowing barbeque.
No wonder that so many Brits dream of making the fabled 'Lucky Country' their adopted home.
Australia certainly has it problems. There are water shortages, surprisingly high rates of depressive illnesses and a real gambling habit. But they do not appear to loom large in weighing the well-known pros of an Australian existence with the less-publicised cons.
Better still, the Australian government is being particularly welcoming right now to Brits with the right qualifications wanting to live the Aussie dream.

13th Dec 2006, 13:58
An interesting thread mazzy, but the ‘fed up’, ‘sick of’, ‘hate the’ and ‘can’t stand’ approach isn’t the way to decide. If you’re of any age, yes, you will have things on your mind that fit those categories, but my view is that you have to be moving on for positive reasons, not negative ones. There may well be some negative ones around, but the positive ones must be multiple, genuine and strong.

I suppose in the aviation world it’s more common to be moving on for a job, a specific period of time, rather than ‘going for good’ which is a different kettle of fish.

We are going for good soon, and whenever my wife and I mention our plans to leave next year, we get various observations depending on the relationship we have with the other person. Family members are without doubt the worst people to talk to.

My brother: “not interested”, asks no relevant questions, criticises almost every issue with comments like “yes but exactly what is a hectare?”. My sister: “not interested”, asks no relevant questions whatsoever, has now announced she’s stopped talking to us.

My wife’s sisters: one is hugely in favour and discusses the pros and cons in detail and enthusiastically. The other sister is a total misery who finds fault in every area. She is “staying put and waiting for her pension”, we of course are “foolish and will regret everything”.

Acquaintances, in general, are interested and enquire about all the obvious things, learning a new language, property availability and price, the cost of living, the climate etc. Total strangers are the most interesting people to discuss the move with, as they have no axe to grind and I suppose think more freely because of that.

My take on this is that a great proportion of Brits are too scared to change their lives in such a big way. They whinge, but will never do anything to change their lot. I fully realise that if you’re happy with your lot, there’s little reason to move around, but the negative moaners really should give it a rest. Have a gander at the ‘euro’ thread for examples of this attitude.

my wife and I are in well paid jobs, which provides a fair degree of insulationYou should be concerned about the state of the nation, whatever nation it is.

and they had only a tiny fraction of our spending power and very few material possessions.We are close to the cause of Britain’s present day problems with that comment. It is NOT about material possessions!

Slim Slag’s #99 post sums it up succinctly.

1st Jan 2007, 07:09
I came to Australia on a "3 months to 3 years" secondment with a British investment bank. Still here nearly 10 years later, having made a couple of half-hearted attempts to get a job back in UK during the first 5 years but feeling largely settled now. Colleagues who stayed in London have probably earned more money - but probably also had to spend a lot more. Living in London has always been stressful & expensive - in part from the cost of neding to escape at regular intervals, in part transport and accommodation costs.
Here, I jump on the ferry from the CBD. and travel 7 minutes across the Harbour, from where I walk about 50m to the front door. Hard to find that kind of lifestyle anywhere in the UK - at least anywhere an investment banker is likley to find work! Sydney is not the best place in the world to work - London is rather more exciting, at least in terms of deals - nor the best to live - but it's probably one of the best to live AND work.
Upside - Quality of life - we can get to the yacht club in 2 minutes, the city in 7 minutes, the Opera House in 12 and the beach in 15 minutes - though it takes 55 minutes to get to the airfield where the Pitts lives!
Cost of living in Sydney is still below most of the UK, but high relative to the rest of Australia. Flying something like a brand new glasss panel Cessna 182 costs around $260/hr (about GBP 105).
Weather - good - (though we NEED more rain) - though funnily enough this was never a reason for me to escape from the UK. Sydney winters are mild - temperatures about the same as May/June in UK - with clear skies and sunshine - great flying weather. I've only used my British warm overcoat twice in ten years.
People - friendly, open, Australia seems to have made a reasonable go of multiracialism - after all, we're ALL from somewhere else if you go back a while. Everyone speaks English, and loves to bash Poms (especially over cricket!) but it's mostly friendly banter.
Food - high quality, great variety of different styles.
Girls - should perhaps have come here when single - there's apparently a demographic shortage of straight, single men.
Distance - Not as far from the ROTW as NZ, but still a long trip to Europe. There's a lot of space between major cities so most people don't see much outside the metropolitan areas. Driving not so much fun as I remember the UK - speed cameras, low speed limits - but good road infrastructure, largely financed by Macquarie Bank, who have exported the techniques around the world.
Pain of separation: (a) From the deeply embedded vision of England - I was watching the recent "Pride and Prejudice" move the other night and felt the physical pain of separation from some of that beautiful English countryside, of an early summer's morning. I do miss that, though after 2-3 weeks last Christmas we were ready to head home to Sydney; (b) From family and friends - my wife's family in UK and NZ; mine mostly in UK; though you make friends wherever you are and it's a lot easier than it would have been in the past, with high speed internet; cheap STD calls; video-conferencing and affordable international flights.
Conclusion - moving somewhere doesn't bind you to staying there, but wherever you move it's a risk and there'll be downsides. It's perhaps a test of personality to work out whetehr you're prepared to face the risks and live with the downsides. See if you can sort out a job before you come if you want to reduce the risks - an aerospace engineer should be able to find work in Sydney, I should have thought - or try joining Macquarie Bank to help them with the Qantas acquisition. I certainly don't regret having coming here. Will I stay for ever? I don't know - it would be nice to have a job and the money to go back to England for 6-8 weeks a year, and I love NZ too.
But we're all, as the bible says, "strangers and pilgrims on the earth ...who desire a better, that is, a heavenly country." Heb 11:13-16. So don't expect any country, including any of those mentioned earlier in the thread, to fix all your wants. But Australia's not a bad place to try...

1st Jan 2007, 10:09
Fed up "OF"? You mean fed up "WITH". For heaven's sake.....
Yes, I'm a cunning linguist and proud of it. Learn the f****** language!
However, I do agree totally with the point of the thread, and I will be out of here as soon as it is feasible for me to go. (Good riddance, you might say, and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion)!This nation has become a hell-hole for the majority of law-abiding middle aged hard-working folk for all the reasons stated. Thanks Bliar, you've done a great job. Not.

Nil Flaps
1st Jan 2007, 12:46
I left the UK for Western Australia. Because the English weather was shit.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2007, 12:50
Perth Western Australia
Only five hours by 747 to civilisation!! (Whether you count the nearest civilisation as Sydney or Singapore is up to you, they're about the same distance.)

I had some relatives emigrate there. They got bored as hell and moved back to the UK after not very many years.

Fine for a week's holiday, but by the middle of the second week living there you'd be really struggling for things to do other than discuss the mower man and the swimming pool cleaning regime with the neighbours.

Nil Flaps
1st Jan 2007, 12:58
Hey Gert don't knock it till you've tried it.

Sorry to say this but your rellies sound like boring bastards!

1st Jan 2007, 13:38
We are considering trying for the US in sooner rather than later. I would be interested to hear the pros and cons for someone who has done it plus any of the pitfalls.

1st Jan 2007, 13:58

It depends on what you want from life. I don't want to live in the type of place Sydney is. Perth suits me down to the ground. No there isn't the hectic lifestyle but that is what many people get sick of. We have relatively cheap flying and with the distances involved here the excuse to fly. We supply the wealth the rest of Australia lives off and are currently going against the national trend with just about everything in boom time. Good jobs and good job prospects, so if you can't find ways to amuse yourself, it says more about the person you are than the place.

1st Jan 2007, 14:30
Totally agree with you, I have more toys here in Perth than I have ever had (and the weather in which to enjoy them). FREE car parks/facilities and genuine encouragement to get out enjoy life. Where in England would I get the chance to 4WD deserted beaches legally???? and camp.......

Any one who gets bored in Perth is either not trying or clinically dead:=

1st Jan 2007, 19:18
Until I reached the age of 54 I was the worst customer there could have been for the local medical practice. Once every five years to renew a specific licence which i hold

Then I developed some symptoms which led straight to a diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes.

Now acquire something like that and put whatever you like against our NHS and it gives you a whole new outlook.

I have reconciled myself to being unemployable in most countries outside the UK, but it makes you wonder how I would have stood if I had packed my bags and flown the coop to Australia or the States and then found myself in this pickle.

As it is I haven't missed a single day at work since being diagnosed, am living life just as before - personally if not diet wise - and wishing a thousand curses on Blair and Co for not standing up for the working Brit and simply being pale pink Tories with spin doctors.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Jan 2007, 20:05
It depends on what you want from life.
Something other than decades of conversations about lawn mower men and swimming pool cleaning systems. I thought that would have been clear from my earlier post.

1st Jan 2007, 20:47
As someone recently consigned to living alone (against my wish), I have contemplated alternative locations for my 'retirement'. Due to health problems I am unemployable, though my age would have disqualified me from 'preferred immigrant' schemes. I yearn for company (PPRuNe is my company) yet cannot contemplate 'collective living' (such as a retirement home) for fear of being landed with 'the wrong type of company'.
I've considered everything (?) from a mobile home in which to travel the World to a (truly) temperate climate location such as Madeira. I don't think (even occasional) temperatures above 32 deg C would suit me, though 'cold' wet and windy days depress me (I'm depressed already).
Remaining family are in Edinburgh and 'London', so I probably wouldn't consider permanent residence Dunnunda (don't suppose they'd have me anyway as I don't have relatives there).
By right I could move anywhere within the EU. I have lived (and worked) in Denmark (and I spoke the language), so would 'know' the ropes, and I also worked in Germany (and have mainly technical German) whereas my schoolboy French is inadequate (though my daughter-in-law is French and they have a 'family' property in the Ardeche region) to understand whether healthcare for the elderly would be adequate (I have heard of retirees who have had to return to the UK having discovered that their increasing needs were not met in their chosen location).
Any advice would be welcome . . .

1st Jan 2007, 21:43
Go against the (predicted) flow and consider Bulgaria or Romania. Property is very cheap, even after a few speculators have pushed prices up. You can get something really swish for under 100k.

With the average wage of c. £25 pw, and shop prices to match, you can afford to employ someone to attend to your daily needs and still have more than enough left over for a good life.

Only real downside is a new language AND even a new alphabet!
If I wasn't trapped here, I'd have gone 5 years ago.

Nil Flaps
1st Jan 2007, 23:43
Oh come on Gerty... have you even been to Perth - yourself? You keep rattling on about there being nothing to talk about (from your relatives eyes) as if their opinion is the be-all and end-all where Perth is concerned. There are good and bad opinions about every place in the world, but taking your relatives ideas as the gospel because it wasn't their style is a little narrow-minded don't you think?

As R4 says, it depends on what you're looking for in a place. Dunno about you but I much prefer wide open white beaches, blue skies and friendly people rather than what I left behind... work is king, dreary weather and in general a pretty miserable existance, as opposed to a life. I still marvel at the fact that a stranger in the street doesn't just say hello but strikes up a conversation. I can't remember that happening often in Blighty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Gert but it'd be nice to see you form one yourself, rather than moan about and slate a place because of what one second-hand source tells you!

1st Jan 2007, 23:53
Also, how can you classify a City according to the reactions of a few?
I live in a village, and there are areas where the folk would bore me and areas where they would be stimulating, and those extremes might be in the same street. I wouldn't begin to group all the residents as being equally socially accomplished or inept.

Buster Hyman
2nd Jan 2007, 00:37
Girls - should perhaps have come here when single - there's apparently a demographic shortage of straight, single men.

Only in Sydney my friend, only in Sydney!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/leb.gif

Perth is okay. I think the heat has affected some of them but, generally, it's ok....http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/crazy.gif

2nd Jan 2007, 05:25
Thanks to Harold Wilson, Denis Healy and the incentive of a copper handshake on the demise of the FAA in the early 70s, after chest X ray, interview and character check, I became one of the last ₤10 Poms.

As a young man looking to achieve something more than mere mediocrity in Betty Windsor’s green and pleasant land, it seemed an option worth pursuing.

Some 34 years later, I have the honour to report that, three careers later, I’m not disappointed.

Looking at the loose affiliation of warring tribes that the UK has become, I can’t see any future for those who wish to dwell in the social, religious and cultural divisiveness that now passes for Tony Blair’s Britain.

Take, for example, that bulwark of British military pride and honour, the Edinburgh Military Tattoo. The version shown here on New Year’s Eve relegated the Massed Pipes and Drums of what now apparently is pleased to be known as the “Royal Regiment of Scotland” (pardon me, whatever happened to those great Scottish Regiments that faithfully served the House of Sax Coburg and Windsor?), to a five minute spot behind the Central Africa Sunday School for Singing Piccaninnies, and some stick slinging so called Secret Swiss percussionists. In these politically correct days, not even the Crab Regiment Drill Squad is seemingly acceptable!

The less said about test cricket, the better. Even the Barmy Army for all its lip, couldn’t notch up a win against locals in a friendly game!

And, after a lifetime of supporting the UK bureaucracy (including the 400,000 more bureaucrats paid with money taken from the rest of you than there were when Labour took office in 1997), your survivors can gleefully look forward to paying Inheritance Tax on what you’ve managed to accumulate by the sweat of your brow. It matters not one whit that no one has noticed any increase at all in the efficiency with which the bloated state apparatus serves you mugs who pay for it.

Life in the UK? Not yesterday, today or tomorrow, thank you.

2nd Jan 2007, 06:12
Perhaps Gertrude should post what Perth hasn't got and lets see if it is something most people would miss. Yes we are a bit less cosmopolitan here. We're more of a country town grown big. Thing is for many that is the attraction. We may not have the best restaurants in the world but we have some damn good ones. We have a symphony orchestra and a ballet. We have an Aussie rules football team that is consistently better than the rest of Australia (lets face it we beat Sydney in the grand final last year and yes I know you beat us the year before). We have excellent sporting facilities (hosting the world champion swimming a couple of times and now the Red Bull air race too to mention but two). We have excellent wine production regions (I can personally recommend the wine cruise up the Swan river, which is a day trip with a meal and all you can drink).

But enough from me. Over to anybody with constructive comment.

Oh by the way for those not buying into the slag off Perth debate. Medical cover here is comparable to the UK however some doctors choose to charge over the going rate and if you want to use them you simply end up paying the difference. Most do what they call "bulk billing" so no cash ever changes hands but with those that don't you pay up front and claim back the allowed amount at a Medicare office. There is also the option to go private, but of course you pay for that either yourself or via medical insurance.

Duff beer
2nd Jan 2007, 07:07
I told myself I would become a US citisen when the American anthem is going to make me cry when played. Did not think it was to happen soon.
It did not take long.

Congrats....youre certainly cringeworthy enough......:yuk:

2nd Jan 2007, 10:23
I apologise for the somewhat nature of my original posts, in being that they made me look like a moaner in one hell of a rant mode (which I was then I suppose). I was just trying to get my thoughts down.

The one thing I will take from this post (amongst other things of course) is that I will not leave this country based on negative impacts, but will look at the positive reasons of the destination.

This thread has taught me a lot:

a) Some people were dragged up and not brought up, judging by their manner.
b) Referring to someone's family as 'boring b*st*rds' will not get you a meaningful, respectful response.
c) The odd spelling mistake means that you do not know any English and need to start learning the language from scratch.

Australia seems the place to go from what I can see here. Just as a matter of interest, what is tax like there? In December, the total deductions on my payslip were just under £800 - made me feel great knowing that it was being spent well.

Maz ;)

2nd Jan 2007, 10:58
Evening all

I’m newly registered to this forum but have been following it for some time, and came across this thread which prompted me to join…

I’m a jobbing commercial passenger balloon pilot, which basically means moving around the world following the work- truly a nomads life! ;)
What it does mean however, is that I get to experience different countries/cultures/people for reasonable amounts of time, but with the option of buqqering off somewhere else at the end of my contract if I don’t like it. :E

I’m currently in Myanmar. I do between 3 and 6 months per year here in the European winter, and work in Europe in summer. Last year(2006), I was in the Loirevalley of France for 6 months, and this year as of march, I shall be in/on Cyprus for 9 months.

I ‘live’ in Germany, although last year I was only home for 20 days. For all it’s financial troubles, it’s still not a bad place to live. I left the UK ‘officially’ 5 years ago, but was living in Germany for half the year before that.
So, to my 2 penn’orth on this subject:

As someone else pointed out (Juud, I think), it’s your personal attitude that counts more than anything – If you’re a miserable barsteward at home:* , it aint likely to to change just cos you’re living in a foreign country, and in fact you’ll probably be worse due to the frustrations of that new country!:ugh:

The other things to bear in mind is your attitude to the country and it’s people, and whether you speak the lingo.

If you go somewhere where they at least speak a vague version of English, then you’re probably going to have a better time of it than say going to China or south America if you don’t speak the language.
Brits are notoriously lazy at learning foreign languages and seem to rely on the fact that most people have at least a basic knowledge of English – this is fine for your hols in Spain or whatever, but you’re gonna have big problems if you choose to live there.

I met Brits in France who were having an awful time mainly because they thought people would speak English. If someone can speak English, they may not necessarily do it just cos you don’t speak their language- they’d rather you tried and then they might meet you halfway. It’s partly about national pride(something that is sadly lacking in the UK).

Before you up sticks, consider what that sunny climate is actually gonna mean- in France, we regularly have 40+°C, which very quickly becomes hard work just to live in – great for a holiday, but day after day it can be energy sapping. The same applies to Germany and Italy too.
Conversely, winter in mid France can be even more dismal than the UK, with low cloud and not quite freezing temperatures and lots of rain. At least in the UK you get frost and some sun.
Germany is a huge country, and I’ve lived in both the north,south and the middle. The north is great in summer, with lovely beaches and a temperate climate and a breeze to push your dinghy along, but the winters are terrible. Cold, damp and when it does snow it quickly melts and turns to slush.
In the middle and south, you have hot(again 35+° regularly) sunny days with great flying weather, but very hard winters with lots of snow and temperature of -20°C not unusual in the south. You do however get some fantastic weather in mountains in jan/feb…
The skiing is cheaper than Austria and the scenery just as stunning! The ballooning is bluddy marvellous too!

Germany is not as cheap as it used to be- the Euro has seen to that, but it’s still significantly cheaper than France, although that may well change in the next few months now that VAT has gone up.
In France, shops shut for 2-3 hours in the middle of the day- extremely frustrating at first, but you get used to it, but they are however open on Sunday mornings, which is something you definitely won’t find in Germany!
The beer is good in Germany, and despite the old stereotypes, they are great fun- some of my best nights out have been with germans:ok: The food takes some getting used to, but you can even find Marmite if you know where to look:E
The downside of Germany is the paperwork- you need a licence for everything! Also the eco ways of life can drive you nuts sometimes. All rubbish has to be sorted and as much as possible has to be recycled, and you’re then charged by how much the rest weighs- a good idea , but means your house has 3 or 4 dustbins.
The health insurance is an issue too- I’m self employed, and pay about 250 euros per month for my private health insurance. However , for that I get healthcare second to none. If you’re employed, the set up is slightly different, in that the company pays some of it.
France is also very expensive for your employer unless you’re self employed, what with health insurance, minimum wage, 35 hour weeks, and after your probationary period, it being almost impossible to sack you without it costing a fortune, means that they are very careful who they employ –don’t expect to just breeze into a job, unless it’s a shite one no-one else wants!
It sounds great having a 35 hour week, but in practice it means it’s very difficult to run a decent business. Add to that the fact that the country grinds to a halt for july and august, and you have a recipe for a country that is struggling businesswise. They do however have a great attitude to food, drink and free time!
The bureaucracy in France is also something to be believed, but they did invent it after all!

If I had to make a decision as to where I’d live if I didn’t have to work in my chosen profession, then NZ would be very high on the list, although the winters there can be quite miserable- especially on the east coast(from my experience anyway). But in general it’s got everything you could want in one country- mountains, fjiords, rainforests, beaches, wildlife( a huge plus is there’s NOTHING poisonous –unlike Oz!), and friendly people- again don’t listen to the stereotypes. I reckon they’re some of the nicest people in the world- and I meet a few in my job! If you fly for fun, then the south island attitude is perfect, especially if your preferences extend to silent flight.

Although I live half the year in Asia, there’s no way I personally could live here permanently. The people here in Myanmar are great - really friendly, and very honest, but the poverty is depressing. The countryside is stunning, but the dust and the heat, especially just before monsoon has to be experienced to be believed. We’re here in the winter months, and in nov/dec/jan it’s a pleasant 10°C in the am, rising to 25-30 during the day, but at the end of our season, it’s 30° at 0430, going up to 50° in the pm. Add to that the 57 varieties of poisonous snake, the awful roads, lack of electricity half the time, and a government that hasn’t got a clue(don’t get me started!), then all in all, I think I’ll stick with Germany.

This has turned into a bit of an epic first post! Hopefully they won’t all turn out this way!
But it is something that I’ve had a fair bit of experience with:8 , and feel quite strongly about. I could go on, but I think that’s enough for now!


Oh, and bad spelling gets on my t:mad: ts too;)

2nd Jan 2007, 12:17
Mate, would you please go out the front of your house and wave a big red flag? When I look up the coordinates you have listed as your location I can't see your place on Google Earth. The red flag might help me spot you.:}


I have often dreamt of working a year or two in the UK, have tried the US (holidays etc.) and wouldn't move there permanently. Canada is an exceedingly beautiful place and fits very well with the OZ/NZ/UK attitude and lifestyle.:ok:

One of the things I do like about the UK is the culture and language, it is such a pity to see so many being careless with the language, however I get pretty used to it living here.

Thanks Maz et al for an interesting thread.



2nd Jan 2007, 12:36
Simple first locator. N55 W2. West of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East of Carlisle. 10 miles out from Newcastle Airport EGNT NCL on the centre-line of runway 07.
When entering coordinates into Google Earth the format N54 58 34 W02 01 21 copied and pasted works for me, though you may have to zoom out to get focus (as we don't qualify for high resolution images). The only area of any security interest is the staging point for Trident missiles between us and Newcastle Airport at the former RAF Ouston (now Albemarle Barracks (http://www.rcpbml.org.uk/wdie-02/d02-220.htm)).

2nd Jan 2007, 12:53
Must be pretty close ey?

I have to go to about 10,000 eye alt to get some focus on you, hence the request for the red flag, although it would have to be a bloody big one!

Looks pretty green there, as opposed to Albury, Australia. (JIC you're interested in taking a look!):ok:



Nil Flaps
2nd Jan 2007, 13:16
Eh, eh, calm down, calm down!

I see who your post is aimed at and you are entitled to your own opinion. But that's the point isn't it? That's your opinion, not somebody else's!

No-one appreciates a whinger, especially one that whinges about something to its detriment without having had any personal experience of it on which to base an open-minded opinion. :=

I'm sure Gert wouldn't appreciate me making sweeping and inaccurate statements about Cambridge without my having been there in person.

Nor, I'm sure, would you appreciate me arguing that Liverpool is overrun by scallys on the rob, just because that's how a scouser friend of mine once describe it. Of course I would never argue the point because not only have I not been there to form an opinion, it's a gross generalisation.

Someone repeatedly toting a second-hand opinion that Perth offers little more stimuli after two weeks than discussing the mower man and cleaning the pool is no different.

As for my 'boring bastard' remark, it's quite obvious I wasn't dragged up; at least I had the decency to apologise before writing the remark! :}

R4Z: well said. Good description to an outsider. You forgot to mention Rottnest Island. 16kms offshore, crystal clear waters surrounded by idyllic coves. Tricky little airstrip though. And don't forget Freo, the Byron Bay of the West after Margaret River.

mazzy, I certainly won't expect a meaningful response from yourself and before you complain about other people's spelling, how about you write properly constructed sentences? Oh and I'd love to tell you about all about the tax in Australia but I really can't be bothered. :E

2nd Jan 2007, 13:20
especially one that whinges about something to its detriment without having had any personal experience of it on which to base an open-minded opinion.
I don't know what your on about there - I think living in England and paying taxes is enough personal experience.

With regards to your opinion, I respect that, but if you were calling my family boring barstewards, I wouldn't ;)

I do appreciate a good scouse joke though :p

2nd Jan 2007, 13:34
Oh Maz, after all us pedants lecturing you, you're still doing it!

I don't know what your on about there -

Ouch that hurts.:8

The barstewards comment made me laugh though.:ok:

2nd Jan 2007, 13:35
I did it on purpose to prove a point :D

Nil Flaps
2nd Jan 2007, 13:35
Oh come on Tezza, pay more attention!

What I'm 'on about', as you so eloquently put it, is describing how Gert has no personal experience of Perth yet whinges about it all the same.

2nd Jan 2007, 13:37
Fair enough - I apologise! :zzz:

ABX - another word I like to "eloquently put" :p :p

Nil Flaps
2nd Jan 2007, 13:47
Cheeky runt - excuse the spelling mistake! :} :}:E

Anyway, now we've all thrown our toys out of the pram, let's get back to the thread topic which I'm sure other readers until about 6 posts ago were quite enjoying. Notably Argus' post #118 - great little read that.

2nd Jan 2007, 13:52
Yes I agree - that's enough laughter for one afternoon :)

Anyway..........Tax system in Australia................:confused:

2nd Jan 2007, 14:05
Nil Flaps
Once took my teenage son out to Rottnest but couldn't get it on the ground. being a low time PPL didn't help but that crosswind is a buggah.
Always treated Freo as a seperate city as that seems to be the way the locals want to be thought of. But in truth we have probably melded into one by now though. Cappucino strip down there is almost a seperate lifestyle now.
Most people forget Garden Island as well as that is a Naval base but the fairy penguins and the like in the area are a big attraction. What most people don't realise is that Garden Island has a landing strip. It's not a runway because if you land there there is no way you can take off, unless you are in a helicopter.
I will still contend that whilst there may not be a lot going on here, there is enough and that if you get bored with what is happening here then you will get bored with what is happening elsewhere. I don't however guarantee that what is happening here is what you would consider the most up to date. If you don't like that then get over yourself because we accept that we are not the most important city in the world. The big names may not come here but we make the best of those who do.
Again it is lifestyle that counts.So if that is what counts for you then check us out. We may not be what you are looking for!
If you are seriously contemplating a move then you need to decide that you are committed to the move . When I came I didn't know I needed a licence to work in my trade. Fortunately I was a quick learner and got my ticket early (however I resolved that I would sweep the streets rather than give in to defeat). However many trades can take a couple of years to re-establish yourself in. For example the last I heard an electrician needs to do a 12 month course (plumber is the same) to be allowed to work unsupervised in a trade he may have been practising for multiple years in the UK

2nd Jan 2007, 14:27
Must be pretty close ey?
Corbridge is spot-on, though we are on the westerley boundary, almost at Roman Corstopitum (did the Romans get as far as Oz?).
http://www.stefan-ramseier.ch/roemisch/english/roemisch/tagesbericht/2001/grossbritannien/corstopitum.htm (images are clickable)

Nil Flaps
2nd Jan 2007, 15:40
I'm here in Perth now - I'm not sure if you're aware of that. It's always been my favourite place ever since I first set foot in Australia 13 years ago at Perth airport.

After living in England until my early twenties, I backpacked here before finding work in Sydney. My career then took me to the Middle East for three years before I got back again. Four years in Sydney's rat race was more than enough. I got married and we moved West. I'll never leave. Nothing compares to the lifestyle here.

I like the fact that we are a long way from anywhere. Australia to me even as a kid in England was all about wide open desert, long distances between places, sun, sea, sand, surf and endless beaches. Perth gives me all that as well as the attractions of city life. It's perfect. I get the best of everything. :cool:

2nd Jan 2007, 17:08

See http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/Content/12333.htm

Nil Flaps

Thank you

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Jan 2007, 21:46
Oh come on Gerty... have you even been to Perth - yourself?
Yes, more than once.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Jan 2007, 21:51
Once took my teenage son out to Rottnest but couldn't get it on the ground. being a low time PPL didn't help but that crosswind is a buggah.

IIRC it's only got two windsocks, one each end of the runway.
Unlike Skagway, which has three - just because you know the (different) winds at each end doesn't mean you've got a clue about the wind in the middle!

(I was doing the flying when I landed at Rotto, but was only a pax at Skagway so didn't get to try that for myself.)

2nd Jan 2007, 22:51
G-CPTN, we were swapping posts at 1.30 in the morning (local) and now that I have had my sleep, I see that you're still on!

Thanks for the links you posted (http://www.destinationalburywodonga.com.au/), I had a good read. One of the things that really amazes me about the UK is the very rich history you have, friends of mine have had a beer in an 800 (?) year old tavern and stayed in a 400 year old room. There is evidently a lot of interesting history up there at Corbridge too.

Apologies Maz for the thread drift, back to topic ...

I have been to Perth many times and simply love the place, it is a wide open city in a beautiful location, with a pleasant climate and friendly locals, I have often wondered (idly) about relocating there.



2nd Jan 2007, 23:36
For what it's worth, Perth is one of the best cities I have ever been to, but it was 1993 the last time I was there!:)
My ideal place to live would give me access to the following:
1. Small airfield
2. Racing circuit
3. Good sailing
4. Good skiing
5. The cultural diversity of Europe
6. Open spaces
7. English language preferable but not essential, although I don't currently speak any other!
8. Horse riding
9. Tolerable taxes

I haven't found anywhere yet that ticks ALL the boxes but Merry Old England still ticks a lot of them (but definately not the last one!):yuk:

3rd Jan 2007, 01:32

Well I think Perth ticked all but one and that was the Skiing. But guess what..... They are about to build an indoor skiing centre.

3rd Jan 2007, 02:19
Stickandrudderman- Germany ticks most of those boxes...the lingo and the taxes are the sticking points:E Although most people do speak some english, and I know people who've lived there for 20 years and still don't speak a word! Mostly yank ex squaddies I must say...:rolleyes:

They're very airminded- I've got the choice of about 10 glding clubs, and 4 GA airfields all within 1 hours drive, plus FRA is also an hour just down the road when I want to escape;)


3rd Jan 2007, 03:15
I've spent several years in each of South Africa (Capetown), Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, and of course England. I've spent several months living and working in each of Malta, the USA (Seattle & Redmond) and Nepal. I've enjoyed myself everywhere I've been (and I never encountered any rednecks while I was Stateside ;) ) and I'd go back to any of them any time.

Juud has it dead to rights when she suggests that its all a matter of attitude. For us, home has always been wherever your hat hangs (as the saying goes), but we're missing the girls now they've grown up and set up their own homes. With two of the girls expecting later this year, England and (hopefully) a mob of grandchildren beckon as the inevitable day of retirement draws ever closer. In the end, England will do for JB and me. :ok:

3rd Jan 2007, 04:38
Blacksheep ... I always thought you were going to move there at some stage.:}

3rd Jan 2007, 08:30
Thanks again for the good replies - Andy, didn't see your post until this AM as I think it may have been delayed having been your first post - cheers :ok:

Just one thing though - I am definitely not miserable - anyone who knows me will tell you that. It is more of a frustration than a misery...

Perhaps now I have learned quite a lot - I could re-write my original post to go something like this:


Hello All

I have heard that (insert country here) is a great place and have been thinking of what it would be like to move there - can any of you give me some advice?


(You catch my drift) ;)

I have to say that Perth is looking good so far from what a few of you have said. :ooh:

3rd Jan 2007, 08:50
The Street of Cunning Artificers...The Street of Cunning Linguists might be more interesting... :E

Actually, I've been to Ankh, walked on the river and eaten some of CMOT Dibblers sausages in a bun. At least, Kathmandu felt a bit like that sometimes.

3rd Jan 2007, 20:48
Pan Pan's resolution for 2007: Move to the UK

Why anybody would want to leave, other than perhaps to go somewhere warmer, baffles me.

4th Jan 2007, 03:07
There are approximately 5 'Americans' for each Brit, 4 Chinese for each American, and 21 Chinese for each Brit.
The area of the United States is roughly the same as the area of China, whereas the area of China is almost 40 times that of the UK.
What does all this mean? China is 4 times more populated than the US, but the UK is almost TWICE (1.8) as populated as China!
UK has 248 people per square kilometre (average density)!
(USA is 31)

Lon More
4th Jan 2007, 04:31
Perth (http://www.perthshire-scotland.co.uk/perth2.htm) certainly ticks most of the boxes, apart from tax, but doesn't need a ski-slope as Aviemore is not so far away:)

4th Jan 2007, 04:57
Just cause you have the figures in front of you, what is the population density for Oz?



4th Jan 2007, 05:04
2.6 per sq km.

4th Jan 2007, 05:04
:hmm: :rolleyes:

Wikipedia table (note figures may vary from other sources):- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

4th Jan 2007, 06:20
Gosh surprised some of you old goats havent nominated the Philippines?What's with the litle animated jigglers tinpis? That idea about nice compliant Asian women is a complete myth. You haven't met our housemaid. She's single and there's a very good reason. Think of shoulders...

Then there's Thailand. We have a Thai friend who rides a Harley and parks it in the lounge. She's only five feet nothing and weighs in at around 47 Kg but sheesh the attitude! She's also single. Again. For the third time. Mere men can't handle her. Or the motor cycle.

Mrs B is Malaysian. I've got her right where she wants me.

Nah mate, the grass is always greener on the other side. Leave the jigglers out of it and settle for warm weather and good beer.

5th Jan 2007, 03:06
Excuse me Canned Fish but you really are a silly old git.

I know this is jetblast but many different people read and post here including my wife who is a Filipina, your previous post was undoubtably made in jest, but was still in bad taste.

In any case, Blacksheep has made a well informed post regarding compliant Asian women, it is indeed a myth.

All the women in my wife's family are strong and know exactly what they want, including my wife and I appreciate that about her.

I do indeed have my wife exactly where she wants me.


6th Jan 2007, 00:58
I am really fed up with this country for many many reasons, politcal, climate, social/ethical. And I am looking to going uni in Orlando flordia at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University.

6th Jan 2007, 13:14
I love it in England. There's only one problem - a Scotsman with designs on becoming Prime Minister. He raided my Company pension fund and nicked so much of it that cash may be short when I reach 65 and they "re-evaluate" the affordable pension that I can have. The present "job" is voluntary and unpaid, so there's no top-up from there.

If I can't afford to live in the UK, it'll be a sad day, and I'll be back to this thread to review the options. Thailand sounds attractive. Having dealt with the US Internal Revenue Service a couple of times, the USA is out. New Zealand would be wonderful, but is too far from the family.

6th Jan 2007, 14:31
While I had to stifle a smile that sprang unbid to my lips at stickandrudderman's post, particularly
5. The cultural diversity of Europe I think we have achieved a win/win situation with Gertrude the Wombat. He doesn't want to be here in Australia and we don't want him here.

If only all our problems were so easily solved! ;)

6th Jan 2007, 17:18
Why anybody would want to leave, (the UK) other than perhaps to go somewhere warmer, baffles me. That’s the whole point surely, that we all have different boxes we would like to tick? For example, of the 1 to 9 list in post #141 above, only four actually interest me.

As regards the UK health service, I’ve heard the “wonderful health service” argument for many years, and it doesn’t wash in our family’s experience. (doesn’t wash - MRSA - best not go there!) We’ve experienced very poor NHS service standards for over twenty years here in SE England. The hygiene levels for two out of the three major hospitals locally, is transparently poor.

As for wanting to live here for the culture and the language, maybe that was said as a joke? The language structure, general usage, grammar and spelling, has deteriorated beyond all recognition, and I’m at a loss to see culture anywhere in SE England. Taking culture to be traditions, customs and typical way of life, none of those have great merit on the tick list for us.

PS: My uncle’s gibbon’s mate says that Widnes is breathtaking.

Gertrude the Wombat
6th Jan 2007, 18:45
I think we have achieved a win/win situation with Gertrude the Wombat. He doesn't want to be here in Australia
False. I'm perfectly happy to be in Australia, and have visited several parts several times and will do so again when I get an excuse. I'm just not happy to live in Perth for more than a couple of weeks.

(Oh, and my one visit to Darwin was on a hot and humid day and I decided to spend the three hours in the air conditioned bit of the airport rather than hiring a taxi and being driven around for sightseeing. But I'm sure there are days when the weather is not so oppressive.)

Nil Flaps
7th Jan 2007, 02:22
Oh my good God Gert, it's Darwin! What else did you expect?!!!

You couldn't stand the heat for a few hours?! That's valuable sightseeing wasted. What is the point in going to a tropical destination - and then complaining about the HEAT?!!! :rolleyes:

7th Jan 2007, 03:00
Nil Flaps

Get with the program...It's not british heat, it's not even british style heat. God forbid there should be different lifestyles enjoyed by different people. One should always put down that which doesn't meet up to one's exacting specification of what is civilised and a fit place to reside.

Lets face it we're all just country bumpkins outside the bustling metropolitan areas. Only fit to be passed through rather than visited. Pitied for our less stressful lives at such a slower pace, missing out on......???????

7th Jan 2007, 04:14
Melbourne , oz is where I chose to stay . Ticks most boxes ,though state government is high taxing ( don't know about current tax in other states).
Very good shopping , eating and leisure facilities - very culturally diverse.

I loved my time in Hobart , Perth and Brisbane . I did get a little bored after a while in Perth - and the population generally has a firm belief that the land of oz ends at it's borders. I found the ridiculous parochialism from many of it's inhabitants particularly tiresome , especially when many of them had not been out of the state before.

Adelaide has got to have the highest density of mentally deranged people per square mile on the face of the earth-and the worst water -though has some great eateries and wonderful park lands . North Adelaide is one of my favourite suburbs in the country and the South Australian cricket ground is a magnificent to watch cricket at-unbeatable .

Sydney is a beautiful city but very expensive property wise - particularly if you want to live anywhere near the briny. If I had enough folding matter to live on or near the Harbour I would be very tempted.

However , we don't have much water to go around at the moment, so if you all could wait until we have built a few more dams before you come over , it would be greatly appreciated.

Solid Rust Twotter
7th Jan 2007, 05:32
If I were forced to make a choice about where to put down roots in Oz it would have to be Darwin. Next choice would be Fremantle with Broome and Cairns in close competition.

7th Jan 2007, 08:36
Darwin over Cairns? You poor sick misguided puppy! :=

Solid Rust Twotter
7th Jan 2007, 11:02
The ZZ Top lookalike hillbillies in Darwin remind me of home...:E :ok:

Nil Flaps
7th Jan 2007, 12:16
I did get a little bored after a while in Perth - and the population generally has a firm belief that the land of oz ends at it's borders. I found the ridiculous parochialism from many of it's inhabitants particularly tiresome , especially when many of them had not been out of the state before.

Unlike Gert's odd comments, I do agree that there is truth in what you say here priapism. Again a sweeping statement but this attitude does appear to prevail.

Call it a bit of a chip on the shoulder, I dunno, but I hear a lot of (negative) comments about the Eastern States from people here in the West. My wife does it heaps and I have to say, often it's unfounded and it pisses me right off!

However, at the risk of sounding like just another parochial to add to the list, when I was living in Sydney (and before I was a resident of WA), some of this may be borne of the attitude displayed by some, yet not all, people from the Eastern States. I continually used to hear in my work (when working on projects on a national scale) 'oh but the West doesn't count - it's too far away and there's not enough people there to be worried about'. Poor form that. Stupid too from a business perspective!

On the upside, many from the East love the West. They marvel at the relaxed pace of life, even in Perth, and some believe that The Kimberley is one of the few untouched, unspoilt and wild regions left in this country.

I probably sound like another parochial, but I see exactly where you're coming from and I try to see it from both sides. Whilst there's nothing wrong with being proud of your state, as of course West Aussies most definitely are, it doesn't give reason for them to dismiss the Eastern States as being a poor relation, nor should the East think the same of the West.

But sadly it appears that in the West Aussie psyche, it's almost like they have an inferiority complex and mistakenly believe the East sees itself to be 'above' the West.

7th Jan 2007, 12:21
I am really fed up with this country for many many reasons, politcal, climate, social/ethical.OK, I can see why those could annoy peopleAnd I am looking to going uni in Orlando flordia at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University.Have you, at your tender age, ever heard of the saying 'Out of the Frying Pan, into the fire' ?:)

7th Jan 2007, 14:13
Nil Flaps,
I have always found Western Australians and in particular those from Perth to be a very balanced lot of people. They have a chip on both shoulders. Other than that a delightful place. :ok:

7th Jan 2007, 14:51
Since there are so many Aussies on here, are there any from the vicinity of Mt. Lawley?

7th Jan 2007, 20:37
I have read with great interest in this topic as I have done the emigration thing twice now! And you know what..there is no utopia. Places are what you make them, and every country has its problems.

I initially left Scotland as a child as my parents wanted to settle in Perth WA. I hated it from the word go, and it took me years to adapt and eventually like the place. As an adult I decided to leave as I was bored with the place, sure it is nice and clean and the weather is sunny most of the time, but it lacks soul in my opinion, it is a little too sterile.

The UK, or Edinburgh to be precise, has soul in spades, and a lot of other problems that don't exist in Perth..Neds for example!

However on balance both places are nice places to live, completely different, and in my opinion both have more positives than negatives.

As I live here now, I can only say that the biggest promoter of negative attitudes in the UK is the media..Sky News...BBC (lost all credibility) etc. Try switching off the TV cancelling the newspaper and throwing away the mobile for 2007. And you just might find that the UK (well Edinburgh) is not so bad after all....OK the weather really does suck...but that's just a lack of appropriate clothing right?

All the best whether you stay, go or ponder.

7th Jan 2007, 22:03
The ZZ Top lookalike hillbillies in Darwin remind me of home...
SolidTwotRuster weve met??:uhoh: :confused:
(Belts out Le Grange on battered Les Paul)

Nil Flaps
8th Jan 2007, 00:54
Hehehehe! Nice one. ;)

8th Jan 2007, 05:08

No but not that far away(in the west austrailian scale of things). I live in the northern suburbs. Why do you ask?

Solid Rust Twotter
8th Jan 2007, 05:20
SolidTwotRuster weve met??:uhoh: :confused:
(Belts out Le Grange on battered Les Paul)

Probably. I was the one spark out in front of Rorke's Drift clutching a Toohey's and being nibbled by 'possums...:ok:

8th Jan 2007, 06:16
Hmmm ... maybe a good thing that we have a whopping big desert between them and us! :suspect:

8th Jan 2007, 07:30
... and the population generally has a firm belief that the land of oz ends at it's borders.
It does, mate, it does. One more step and you're in the Indian Ocean. :rolleyes: :E ;)

9th Jan 2007, 05:00
For we island nations, the border is traditionally taken as being three miles from the beach.

Now I know that Oz is God's own country and all that, but ....walking on water? :rolleyes:

9th Jan 2007, 09:10
Yes 6 kls off oz continental island coast still walking on water, walking underwater for a bit then go ashore, and walk another few kls over reefs if its low tide and then maybe take a tinny for a few more kls. Nope, Oz doesn't end 3 miles off the beach.

Not even close.

9th Jan 2007, 11:22
The UK is a stunning and fantastic country in many respects, though unfortunately it is also run by stunningly cynical and hateful politicians. I love waking up on a day off and thinking I can be in the Lake District, Peak District or North Yorkshire National Park in an hour. Or I can walk into Manchester city centre and look at beautiful victorian buildings. But, then I pick up a newspaper or see the TV news, and when I read or hear what the politicians want to rip me off with next it fills me with rage.
Answer, I think is, the UK needs a revolution.

9th Jan 2007, 19:52
Blue Diamond ..... and that Indian Ocean is full of very large sharks - then again isn't everything bigger in the west???

10th Jan 2007, 02:07
Not being one to brag, I'm glad you think so.
:E :E :E :E :E

10th Jan 2007, 02:18
Nope, Oz doesn't end 3 miles off the beach.
Depending on how you arrive here, Oz can end in different places:

'Excised offshore place' is defined to mean any of the following:

Ashmore and Cartier Islands
Christmas Island
Cocos (Keeling) Islands
an Australian sea installation
an Australian resources installation,
all islands that form part of Queensland and are north of latitude 210 south,
all islands that form part of the Northern Territory and are north of latitude 160 south,
all islands that form part of Western Australia and are north of latitude 230 south
the Coral Sea Islands Territory, and
any other external Territory prescribed by regulation or any island of a State or Territory which is prescribedThey are still working on adding Tasmania to the list ;)

10th Jan 2007, 02:30
And placed on the above is this sign.....:E

Solid Rust Twotter
10th Jan 2007, 04:44
# all islands that form part of Queensland and are north of latitude 210 south,
# all islands that form part of the Northern Territory and are north of latitude 160 south,
# all islands that form part of Western Australia and are north of latitude 230 south

Those numbers look a little big, perhaps...?:confused:

10th Jan 2007, 04:49
Twotter - A direct cut & paste from the Immigration Dept. website (http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/81excised.htm)

Solid Rust Twotter
10th Jan 2007, 04:54
Might want to mention that to them then...;)