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View Full Version : So much for open sky over the pond


MaxRange120
6th Dec 2006, 13:03
So it looks as if the US - UK open sky will be delayed yet again!!.
See the link to BBC News for more details.
MR120:ok:





http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6211834.stm

Duff beer
6th Dec 2006, 13:34
Ah....security. That old chestnut again.

Seems to be the perfect excuse that allows US leaders to act like a***s.

Didn't they block P&O selling the US ports they owned to a Dubai based company for security reasons!! WTF

They preach free trade and capatalism, only to ignore it when it doesn't suit them (tariffs on imported steel being another recent present to foreign companies acting lawfully), blaintantly breaking WTO rules. Hypocrisy has always been a trait of the US government.

Rainboe
6th Dec 2006, 13:52
Hypocrites? Yeah- take a walk through the military cemetries in France full of 19 year old boys from Iowa and Kansas, died protecting Europe. They really hit their peak with the Marshall Plan rebuilding Europe, didn't they? And their military spending protecting Europe because Europe for the last 60 years didn't want to spend what we should have to deter the Russians- why aren't you speaking Russian now?- you would be but for those 'hypocrites'! So you have a beef about petty steel tariffs and trade disagreements?- yeah- let's all hate the ugly American!

So can we discuss trade matters without resorting to pathetic European nationalism?

yak-yak
6th Dec 2006, 14:06
Wow, Thank you america..... .:suspect:

really not
6th Dec 2006, 14:12
Hypocrites? Yeah- take a walk through the military cemetries in France full of 19 year old boys from Iowa and Kansas, died protecting Europe. They really hit their peak with the Marshall Plan rebuilding Europe, didn't they? And their military spending protecting Europe because Europe for the last 60 years didn't want to spend what we should have to deter the Russians- why aren't you speaking Russian now?- you would be but for those 'hypocrites'! So you have a beef about petty steel tariffs and trade disagreements?- yeah- let's all hate the ugly American!

?


I had drafted a nice reply questioning the relevance of WW2 to modern trade embargoes placed by a country which has vastly overspent (see todays dollar rate) and has become the most protectionist in the "free" world, while expecting everyone else to open their borders (by force if necessary) to McD's et al. Then I thought of a better reply to Rainboe---PRAT:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Rainboe
6th Dec 2006, 14:33
Well if you wish to resort to rather sad abuse, don't let me stop you! You're obvioously doing just fine!

It was in the last generation the UK committed that crime of vastly overspending, many of us can still remember Black.......er Wednesday? when the pound collapsed. In fact, I understand even the UK has a vast trade imbalance- quite why the UK economy is so strong I don't understand- we hardly make things people want anymore.

We must protect our borders from invasion! By McDs, Starbucks, Burger King, give them a chance and they will force International House of Pancakes chains down our throats! We are already invaded by Krispy Kreme doughnuts- I saw some in Tesco. Help! Resist them 'really not'! A better way to go than the other lot who seem to be letting loose radioactive noxious substances on us! So why don't we let the stupid politicians sort out trade matters between them- they've got to earn their overpayments- rather than have you people use it as an excuse to resort to daft anti-American nationalism?

VnV2178B
6th Dec 2006, 15:57
Rainboe

So can we discuss trade matters without resorting to 'we saved your sorry ass back in 1945 (1918 whatrever)' so you should just roll-over and play dead?

I don't often get angry at the jet blast comments but that argument has been done to death - yes, thanks for the help, your sacrifices were manifold but that was then, this is now and the WTO rules are supposed to be for everyone.

VnV...

Duff beer
6th Dec 2006, 16:05
wow rainboe......that was surreal.

Getting back to the point, the question here is free trade. If you would like to talk about the brave U.S GI's defending Europe then I would be glad to, but previous actions don't excuse the hypocrasy we are seeing more and more by WTO members who preech free-trade to others.


The US seems to be the main culprit (hiding behind the "it will reduce security" lie), but within the EU we are now seeing Spain, France and others blocking foreign investment whilst their own companies snap up other countries companies, usually with the help of illegal tax breaks.

TBirdFrank
6th Dec 2006, 16:09
And the last loan repayment to Washington by the UK Government for those free no strings acts of aid and assistance some sixty years ago were made - err - as recently as last year?

We paid our debt

Rainboe
6th Dec 2006, 17:35
Let's get something clear- Rainboe is not American. But America and Canada and Australia and NZ and India and others were our allies at very dark times, and stood by us then. The reason you are not speaking Russian and eating Borsht now is because of the American nuclear umbrella that kept us all free. I think it is not beyond our stupid politicians to sort out world trade agreements between allies (remember that word!), but I object seeing people use any unimportant item of news like this as an excuse to trot out their sneering anti-American hostile propaganda. Instead of discussing the trade dispute, some of you are just trotting out the usual rubbish about why we are supposed to dislike Yanks. If they are worried about their security, maybe it is because of the recent awful events that took place on US soil. Cut them some slack and lets leave it to the politicians and let's leave out the sad propaganda!

I see this has been moved to where it belongs in the first place- Jet Blast. All we need now is a new forum:
"Jet Blast 2 (for anti-American propaganda from saddoes and Greens, and maybe Guardian readers)"

DCS99
6th Dec 2006, 17:38
Leo - I always used to think you really were Michael O'Leary.
But you're not.

You're far too clever - I'm impressed with your post. Really. :ok:

jondc9
6th Dec 2006, 18:53
God Bless America.

brickhistory
6th Dec 2006, 19:21
Hmmm, a nation looking after its own interests...shocking, I tell you, shocking!

Leo HC, that was a well-written post and I agree with most of it. You lost style-points with some of your expressions of disdain, but on the whole it was well done, IMO.

For those that are boarding the 'Yank Bash Express,' (again!) welcome aboard!

Those damn US in-roads into Britain are there because we place them there at bayonet point - McDonald's, Starbucks, KFC, ad infinitum. Hmmm, one would think they'd fail, but I guess all the tourists are the ones keeping the UK franchises open.

Good thing the UK doesn't have large oil reserves or we'd..........hey, wait a minute...............I've got an idea................

Capt. Queeg
6th Dec 2006, 19:26
Speaking of KFC, I'm feeling a mite peckish... no pun intended.

Oh and God bless America.

BenThere
6th Dec 2006, 19:33
Read the whole thing, Brick.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/b28ddf54-8489-11db-87e0-0000779e2340.html

Thanks for the post, Rainboe. I'm glad there's still a few folks like you still around.

Clarence Oveur
6th Dec 2006, 19:44
So how about those French? I suppose debt and gratitude has it's limits. Or is that a one way street?

We will remember that.

brickhistory
6th Dec 2006, 20:27
Read the whole thing, Brick.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/b28ddf54-8489-11db-87e0-0000779e2340.html


Thanks for the point out, BT. I stand corrected, Mr. Kagan wrote a fairly good essay unless Leo HC is his pprune name......

Rainboe
6th Dec 2006, 20:29
So how about those French? I suppose debt and gratitude has it's limits. Or is that a one way street?
They are being assimilated. They're getting into McDs already. Krispy Kreme donuts next- they won't last long (they didn't last time).

con-pilot
6th Dec 2006, 20:35
Plagiarism here in "Jet Blast"! Never. :eek:

It must be as Brick said, Leo must be that guy's Pprune name. :p

From reading the "BBC News" article it looks like it hurts US flag carriers as much as it hurts European airlines. Looks like a 'no-win' scenario for everyone invloved.

Duff beer
6th Dec 2006, 20:39
HOW ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS THIS THREAD AN ANTI-US THREAD.
ITS A DISCUSSION ABOUT A POLITICAL DECISION!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyhow:

Hmmm, a nation looking after its own interests...shocking, I tell you, shocking!


BRICK; thats fine.(I wish we in the UK would look after ourselves more).

But if the US isn't going to abide by WTO rules and flaunt free-trade then it should pull out of the WTO and stop dictating to other nations to accept it. I think thats a fair point. It's 'do as I say, not as I do'.

con-pilot
6th Dec 2006, 20:47
HOW ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS THIS THREAD AN ANTI-US THREAD.
ITS A DISCUSSION ABOUT A POLITICAL DECISION!!!!!!!!!!!!
anyhow:
BRICK; thats fine.(I wish we in the UK would look after ourselves more).
But if the US isn't going to abide by WTO rules and flaunt free-trade then it should pull out of the WTO and stop dictating to other nations to accept it. I think thats a fair point. It's 'do as I say, not as I do'.


Well Duff, there is free-trade and then there is FREE-TRADE. You know, US beef imports into the EU and things like that. If the US pulled out of the WTO there would be no W in the WTO. I would just be the TO.


(The Dallas Cowboys Football team has a guy on it that is called TO, hmm, coincidence? I think not. :p )

BenThere
6th Dec 2006, 20:48
I agree the US shouldn't dictate that other nations join and accept WTO. I was under the impression just about every nation was eager to join. I better start watching something other than Fox News so I find out about these things. Did we so dictate with the threat of military force on these poor nations? And to which nations did we issue these edicts?

matt_hooks
6th Dec 2006, 20:52
Ben, entirely not the point. Are you a politician perchance?

The point is that the American government is quick to cry fowl when another member of the WTO breaches its obligations under the agreement, and then steadfastly ignores any of the rules which it finds inconvenient.

BenThere
6th Dec 2006, 21:09
Fair enough, Matt. But I think you are making a stronger case than the facts justify. True, there are a handful of WTO rulings that the US has either not yet complied with or has demonstrated no immediate intention to comply. However, in the preponderance of these matters, including WTO disputes, the US is arguably the most compliant of member states. Further, there are thousands of cases of non-compliance against US industries and companies that the government hasn't bothered to pursue through the WTO process.

Think just of pirated software and Hollywood fare and all the nations where this is openly done and in this area alone you will have more dollar damage than all the WTO disputes against the US combined. That's perspective.

US domestic policy is to protect foreign patents and copyrights with the same level of effort we do to protect our own.

I'm not a politician. It's worse than that. I'm a pilot.