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Founder
5th Dec 2006, 07:51
The more I watch ordinary news the more angry I get over the fact that there is hardly any news at all about aviation in the regular news broadcasts.

Yea sure if there is a crash somewhere or an airline is going bankrupt, but never any news about new technologies or deals being made...

Am I the only one who feels this way or am I just watching the wrong news channels...? =)

ppvvmm
5th Dec 2006, 07:59
Why does that make you 'angry'??

there is no news coverage on... accountancy technology, dental technology, maratime/ship improvements, cardboard technology.. or most things that are not mass market newsworthy.

cars are only on news about the environmental impact, trains about crowding.

most industry is not considered newsworthy, so it is not surprising that so little is on the news.

the new A380 white elephant was on 'cos it is such a big thing.

professional/trade journals are where one goes for industry news surely?

pvm

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 08:08
Why does that make you 'angry'??

there is no news coverage on... accountancy technology, dental technology, maratime/ship improvements, cardboard technology.. or most things that are not mass market newsworthy.

cars are only on news about the environmental impact, trains about crowding.

most industry is not considered newsworthy, so it is not surprising that so little is on the news.

the new A380 white elephant was on 'cos it is such a big thing.

professional/trade journals are where one goes for industry news surely?

pvm

I guess it makes me "angry" because there is a lot of less important stuff about things going on in africa, aisa like for example the Island of Fiji right now. How many people does this affect in Europe for example? Compared to how many who would be affected by the launch of the A350? The only place I found a bit of news about the A350 was on the Euronews channel and that lasted for about half a minute.

Now I'm not saying that all the other news about hunger and killings and military coup's are not important, but I think there are a lot of other things happening in the world that affect's a lot more people. Only from sweden we've got about 5000 passengers every day who travels out into different destinations in europe and that's a small figure compared to the rest of the countries here... I don't think 5000 people in sweden today are going to be affected by the military take-over in fiji...

But it might be the fact that anything that isn't a scandal isn't worth talking about...

boogie-nicey
5th Dec 2006, 08:44
These days it's a blessing that aviation isn't in the news especially with the Eco-nazis out there. They'll ascew the reports on aviation to always make it look like bad and force the aviation industry to act like some kind of paroled criminal.

Aviation like many other professions doesn't communicate and relay very well when reduced to laymen's terms. This actually causes more misunderstanding and confusion than good.

The SSK
5th Dec 2006, 09:02
The BBC Radio 4 'Today' news magazine programme - massive audience and very influential - is almost guaranteed to have an aviation-related story every morning, usually to do with fuel tax, global warming, security, airline safety blacklists - all negative stuff. They even interview me from time to time.

boogie-nicey
5th Dec 2006, 09:13
SSK: Wow, you must a big wig :) I feel honoured to be on the same thread as you.

Just wanted to say Hi ,take care ....

WHBM
5th Dec 2006, 09:16
The BBC Radio 4 'Today' news magazine programme - massive audience and very influential
It always amuses me on Today when the "expert" makes a point opposite to the editor's prior prejudices, the presenter just can't handle it and the pre-prepared questions just carry on as if the answer had never been given.

Global Warming hype is indeed a classic. Is the programme sponsored by Friends of the Earth.

cparker
5th Dec 2006, 09:27
The more I watch ordinary news the more angry I get over the fact that there is hardly any news at all about aviation in the regular news broadcasts.
Yea sure if there is a crash somewhere or an airline is going bankrupt, but never any news about new technologies or deals being made...
Am I the only one who feels this way or am I just watching the wrong news channels...? =)

Urrm........maybe not on the TV but the news papers are full of articles on all of the areas you mentioned. Every day I could probably find at least 3 rather large articles on either deals being made, BAE vs the world, Ryanair c++kups etc etc.

It is out there!

The SSK
5th Dec 2006, 10:24
SSK: Wow, you must a big wig :) I feel honoured to be on the same thread as you.
Just wanted to say Hi ,take care ....

Don't worry, my name's not Learmount. (Nothing personal, David, know what I mean?)

fortuna76
5th Dec 2006, 14:37
I guess it makes me "angry" because there is a lot of less important stuff about things going on in africa, aisa like for example the Island of Fiji right now. How many people does this affect in Europe for example? Compared to how many who would be affected by the launch of the A350? The only place I found a bit of news about the A350 was on the Euronews channel and that lasted for about half a minute.
Now I'm not saying that all the other news about hunger and killings and military coup's are not important, but I think there are a lot of other things happening in the world that affect's a lot more people. Only from sweden we've got about 5000 passengers every day who travels out into different destinations in europe and that's a small figure compared to the rest of the countries here... I don't think 5000 people in sweden today are going to be affected by the military take-over in fiji...
But it might be the fact that anything that isn't a scandal isn't worth talking about...

Ok, so basically in your opinion it is more important that a new airplane gets launched then a coup in Fiji.... I am shocked by this opinion. Let's face it, the public does not care what they fly in as long as it's a fast shiny new jet (and they won't complain if you put them in a 20 year old DC9, they won't see the difference). To tell you the truth, I don't care either. The days that I was facinated by airplanes and had those shiny models on my desk are long gone. However if I want to catch up on some mandatory industry knowledge I just go and buy the flight or some other magazine. Plenty of stuff about airplanes in there.

Now that leaves us with Fiji (or any of the daily human disasters). These people are having a hard time. We cannot and should not close our eyes for the suffering in the world. The opinion of the world does matter when it comes down to the events that happen. If the world would have taken more notice of Rwanda in 1994 or Darfur a few years ago, things would not have turned out the way they have. :( I would strongly suggest you to spend some time and go and visit one of these places, it will change your opinion. You can offcourse just keep your head in the sand, but don't ask the rest of the world to do it with you, because ignorence leads to these disasters. And a better world starts with.....yes yourself!

Peace brother!

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 14:49
Ok, so basically in your opinion it is more important that a new airplane gets launched then a coup in Fiji.... I am shocked by this opinion. Let's face it, the public does not care what they fly in as long as it's a fast shiny new jet (and they won't complain if you put them in a 20 year old DC9, they won't see the difference). To tell you the truth, I don't care either. The days that I was facinated by airplanes and had those shiny models on my desk are long gone. However if I want to catch up on some mandatory industry knowledge I just go and buy the flight or some other magazine. Plenty of stuff about airplanes in there.
Now that leaves us with Fiji (or any of the daily human disasters). These people are having a hard time. We cannot and should not close our eyes for the suffering in the world. The opinion of the world does matter when it comes down to the events that happen. If the world would have taken more notice of Rwanda in 1994 or Darfur a few years ago, things would not have turned out the way they have. :( I would strongly suggest you to spend some time and go and visit one of these places, it will change your opinion. You can offcourse just keep your head in the sand, but don't ask the rest of the world to do it with you, because ignorence leads to these disasters. And a better world starts with.....yes yourself!
Peace brother!

I think you missunderstood me a bit or perhaps I expressed my self in a poor way.

What I mean is that there are always big headlines and a lot of coverage about events like the one in Fiji right now but how does it affect people in their everyday life?

Of course there should be coverage about that as well but the media should rate the news according to how many that will be affected by the story in their day to day lives. Yes its good that I know what's going on in Fiji, but I'd also like to know what's going on in Europe for example which I'm sad to say Swedish media almost never mention at all... no wonder the people here are so negative to EU and most people here in Sweden know very little or nothing about what's going on in other countries in Europe.

But from a humanitarian perspective it's good that news of mass murder and other cruel happenings in the world gets spread all over the globe.

BUT like I said, there shouldn't be only that, news today are very focused on these big scandalous events and very little is said about the things that really matter to people in the ordinary lives...

The A350 for example will affect thousands of passengers in europe every day a couple of years after it's launched.

A lot of companies will employ people if they were to get a contract to produce parts for the aircraft, but when no one is talking about it, how are the new and fresh companies ever find out anything about the opportunity?

And about your comment on what kind of aircrafts the passengers like to fly with, I think that you are almost right. A lot of the people I meet that travel, book flights with airlines that fly some kind of aircraft that they like and a lot of them do care if they're flying in an MD-11 or an A320 for example...

crewmeal
5th Dec 2006, 14:53
Shall we do what the tabloids do best then? Invent something? By the way what happened in..............................

fortuna76
5th Dec 2006, 15:08
In fact I do care which airline I fly, but that has nothing to do with the airplanes. An 737 of KLM is nice and comfy, however the same plane with Transavia is a disaster for me because of the seat pitch (legspace problem for a 1.90m guy, you have louds of them as well in Sweden).

What would you like to report about the A350. It's a new plane, it ehhh......has two wings and some engines and two guys up front with lots of computers to help them. If you start telling the public about fly by wire, or ETOPS, they will most definately change the channel, and frankly so will I. Like the other guy said, it's just another industry for the average Joe around the corner.

If I was in a business which made seats for airplanes, or designed engines, or galleys, trust me, I would not rely on the 6 o'clock news to find out about new oppertunities. Anyone who does will be out of business very shortly.

A quick google search tells me there are over 200 Swedish residents in Fiji, that is not including the backpackers because it is a popular destination for them. Those people have family at home, all in all that could be more then 5000 people that REALLY care about what is going on there right now.

Apart from this don't forget the golden rule of the news: IF IT BLEADS, IT LEADS! I am sure the A350 will get it's share of attention when something goes wrong :(

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 15:18
In fact I do care which airline I fly, but that has nothing to do with the airplanes. An 737 of KLM is nice and comfy, however the same plane with Transavia is a disaster for me because of the seat pitch (legspace problem for a 1.90m guy, you have louds of them as well in Sweden).
What would you like to report about the A350. It's a new plane, it ehhh......has two wings and some engines and two guys up front with lots of computers to help them. If you start telling the public about fly by wire, or ETOPS, they will most definately change the channel, and frankly so will I. Like the other guy said, it's just another industry for the average Joe around the corner.
If I was in a business which made seats for airplanes, or designed engines, or galleys, trust me, I would not rely on the 6 o'clock news to find out about new oppertunities. Anyone who does will be out of business very shortly.
A quick google search tells me there are over 200 Swedish residents in Fiji, that is not including the backpackers because it is a popular destination for them. Those people have family at home, all in all that could be more then 5000 people that REALLY care about what is going on there right now.
Apart from this don't forget the golden rule of the news: IF IT BLEADS, IT LEADS! I am sure the A350 will get it's share of attention when something goes wrong :(

I'm not saying that you're wrong, what I'm saying is how I'd like it to be. And regarding the part about companies not relying on the 6 o clock news for new oppertunities, well media should make sure that they are the ones providing that kind of information so that companies can start to depend on those kind of news. The media has really failed on this front...

There is a lot about the A350 that's pretty impressive, at least for companies in sweden if they take this chanse and do something good with it. I've worked on the Gripen (JAS-39) project and I know a lot about the civil applications that came as a result of all the money and time that was spent during the development phase...

But back to the facts, the less you tell people, the less they know, and in Swedens case, people here know next to nothing about things like the A350 as an example... but they do care and they are interested if they find out about it somehow...

So it's up to the media to talk about good things, not just the bad ones...

cwatters
5th Dec 2006, 17:31
The more I watch ordinary news the more angry I get over the fact that there is hardly any news at all about aviation in the regular news broadcasts.

There is very little about Electronics (and I don't mean the latest consumer gadget), Chemistry, Physics, or any other technical subject.

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 17:34
There is very little about Electronics (and I don't mean the latest consumer gadget), Chemistry, Physics, or any other technical subject.

In swedish television and at channels like CNN they've got special programs for that kind of stuff... Insight, tech-week etc on Cnn covers a great deal, but do they have any programs on aviation?... I know that BBC World had a 30 min show once per week some time ago but not anymore =(

But I'd like to see more of the programming you're mentioning as well...

Lucifer
5th Dec 2006, 17:35
I guess it makes me "angry" because there is a lot of less important stuff about things going on in africa
I pity you for the value you place on human lives in different locations.

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 17:37
I pity you for the value you place on human lives in different locations.

You've obviously not read the entire thread...

Lucifer
5th Dec 2006, 17:50
Yes, I have.
Perhaps you should view the media as the things you should care about...rather than what you do care about.

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 17:56
Yes, I have.
Perhaps you should view the media as the things you should care about...rather than what you do care about.

Perhaps...

But don't get me wrong, I do care about things happening in africa and everywhere in the world where people are getting hurt for one reason or another. But, the issue I ment to address with this thread is that such coverage takes up all the room for news so there's nothing left for other types of news that might also be important...

Try watching CNN for 24 hours and you'll hear the same 10 or so headlines being repeted 48 times during that time... there must be more happening in the world that could be interesting or might affect you and me in some way...

don't you agree?

chrisbl
5th Dec 2006, 18:45
Perhaps...
But don't get me wrong, I do care about things happening in africa and everywhere in the world where people are getting hurt for one reason or another. But, the issue I ment to address with this thread is that such coverage takes up all the room for news so there's nothing left for other types of news that might also be important...
Try watching CNN for 24 hours and you'll hear the same 10 or so headlines being repeted 48 times during that time... there must be more happening in the world that could be interesting or might affect you and me in some way...
don't you agree?

No!

There is little news value in things going right, there is little news value in people doing what they are paid to do.

News is when there are wider public interest issues, whether it be crowded trains, threats to democracy etc.

What might affect you or me is very subjective and I suppose the news stations have to be pretty brutal because it costs a lot of money to produce news output, it has a short shelf life (minutes unless you are CNN) and laziness. Journalists are lazy and if someone else does the hard work on a story then they might use it. Hence the rise of PR and media firms who make the stories.

Do you really believe that when the A380 came to the UK the blanket news coverage was because the media were all interested.

Hell no, you can bet that the Airbus PR people had put a massive amount of work into the story and "sold it" to the media.

It happens all the time whether it is a new scheme to deal with rogue traders or doorstep selling or something else. A PR company is behind the selling of the "news".

When something like that comes up, just follow it through the media throughout the day, you would be amazed at how the one story flexes about the audience watching or listening. Of course the media will pick up on a story that everyone can relate to rather than something too specialist.

I had to do 11 interviews one morning on the BBC local network between 7am and 9am during all the breakfast shows and a colleague followed up with another 11 between 9 and noon on the less frenetic shows.

So stories on babies, houses, education, road pricing etc will "sell" whereas, BA delivering passengers on time is no story. (Well perhaps it is)

Founder
5th Dec 2006, 18:53
No!
There is little news value in things going right, there is little news value in people doing what they are paid to do.
News is when there are wider public interest issues, whether it be crowded trains, threats to democracy etc.
What might affect you or me is very subjective and I suppose the news stations have to be pretty brutal because it costs a lot of money to produce news output, it has a short shelf life (minutes unless you are CNN) and laziness. Journalists are lazy and if someone else does the hard work on a story then they might use it. Hence the rise of PR and media firms who make the stories.
Do you really believe that when the A380 came to the UK the blanket news coverage was because the media were all interested.
Hell no, you can bet that the Airbus PR people had put a massive amount of work into the story and "sold it" to the media.
It happens all the time whether it is a new scheme to deal with rogue traders or doorstep selling or something else. A PR company is behind the selling of the "news".
When something like that comes up, just follow it through the media throughout the day, you would be amazed at how the one story flexes about the audience watching or listening. Of course the media will pick up on a story that everyone can relate to rather than something too specialist.
I had to do 11 interviews one morning on the BBC local network between 7am and 9am during all the breakfast shows and a colleague followed up with another 11 between 9 and noon on the less frenetic shows.
So stories on babies, houses, education, road pricing etc will "sell" whereas, BA delivering passengers on time is no story. (Well perhaps it is)

You are right... you are so very right about everything you say...

which is a shame,...

AcroChik
5th Dec 2006, 23:24
I think that what this feller needs is not a bigger heart or other interests but a thing called the internet, which allows infinite mass customization.

Properly fed and filtered you can get down to a molecular level in topic granularity using RSS feeds delimited by key-words, thus creating totally custom "newspapers" drawn from the entire world's information.

RSS stands for RDF Site Summary or Reader Site Summary, depending to whom you're speaking, and is a format for syndicating internet content in quite the same way content on other media, such as newspapers, is syndicated.

You can identify RSS-compatible sites because the letters RSS will appear in the far right-hand portion of your browser address bar. If you don't already have one, add a folder called Aviation RSS to you favorite sites and store the feeds you like there so they're easy to get at.

Typing "Aviation Technology RSS feeds" into Google returned this:

feed://www.aerospace-technology.com/news-atom.xml ...

... as the first of quadrillion-or-so hits.

Happy hunting.

Oh, look here, too:

http://feeds.spgmedia.com/a-z/index.html

Founder
6th Dec 2006, 04:18
I think that what this feller needs is not a bigger heart or other interests but a thing called the internet, which allows infinite mass customization.

Properly fed and filtered you can get down to a molecular level in topic granularity using RSS feeds delimited by key-words, thus creating totally custom "newspapers" drawn from the entire world's information.

RSS stands for RDF Site Summary or Reader Site Summary, depending to whom you're speaking, and is a format for syndicating internet content in quite the same way content on other media, such as newspapers, is syndicated.

You can identify RSS-compatible sites because the letters RSS will appear in the far right-hand portion of your browser address bar. If you don't already have one, add a folder called Aviation RSS to you favorite sites and store the feeds you like there so they're easy to get at.

Typing "Aviation Technology RSS feeds" into Google returned this:

feed://www.aerospace-technology.com/news-atom.xml ...

... as the first of quadrillion-or-so hits.

Happy hunting.

Oh, look here, too:

http://feeds.spgmedia.com/a-z/index.html

I'm not arguing for personal reasons as much as for the general public, I've lost the respect of reporters and media since it seams that the only thing they know how to report are killings and murders... What I'd like to see in the media as I've said many times before here is things that really do affect peoples day to day lives. I've actually started watching a channel called EuroNews (www.euronews.net) a lot more in the past couple of days and to my astonishment found that this channel is exactly the type of news channel that I "wanted"... EuroNews covers a great deal of day to day european events as well as world events, technology but also a lot of disasters etc. This mornings broadcast was a good example of that as euronews brought up the troubles in Alitalia and what's happening on the front of space technology. Yesterday they had a story about the A350...

I do have a pretty big RSS list covering aviation news, but the links you sent sure added some more to it... thanx...

G-CPTN
6th Dec 2006, 04:43
I'm not arguing for personal reasons as much as for the general public,
So what you are proposing is propaganda? The general public should be (force) fed items and information according to your maxims, rather than being free to choose their own desired sources? Were I motivated thusly I would prohibit the redtops (see footnote) as they are mere purveyors of trivia and controversy rather than being factual reporting media, but try and deprive Joe Public of his daily serving of young fresh tit and I fear that we would blamed for brain-washing society. Sadly, the lowest common denominators choose such papers over the broadsheets, and, whilst appetite for such things as the intimate details of the sex-lives of soap stars and other 'personalities' such as 'reality show' contestants prevails, there is little that can be done to stimulate an interest in non-controversy aviation matters, therefore the publishers of newspapers and the like just won't disseminate it.

MY primary source of current affair information is BBC Radio Five supported by http://news.bbc.co.uk/ with http://news.sky.com/skynews/home for 'balance' (an alternative viewpoint) and http://edition.cnn.com/ for a more worldwide perspective.

Footnote: Red top newspapers are usually simpler in writing style, dominated by pictures, and directed at the more sensational end of the market.

Founder
6th Dec 2006, 05:14
So what you are proposing is propaganda? The general public should be (force) fed items and information according to your maxims, rather than being free to choose their own desired sources? Were I motivated thusly I would prohibit the redtops (see footnote) as they are mere purveyors of trivia and controversy rather than being factual reporting media, but try and deprive Joe Public of his daily serving of young fresh tit and I fear that we would blamed for brain-washing society. Sadly, the lowest common denominators choose such papers over the broadsheets, and, whilst appetite for such things as the intimate details of the sex-lives of soap stars and other 'personalities' such as 'reality show' contestants prevails, there is little that can be done to stimulate an interest in non-controversy aviation matters, therefore the publishers of newspapers and the like just won't disseminate it.

MY primary source of current affair information is BBC Radio Five supported by http://news.bbc.co.uk/ with http://news.sky.com/skynews/home for 'balance' (an alternative viewpoint) and http://edition.cnn.com/ for a more worldwide perspective.

Footnote:


I don't even understand how you even came up with the idea of propaganda, which I'm certianly NOT proposing. By the way don't you think that you are being subjected to selected news when you're watching BBC, Sky or CNN? They show you want they want you to see. Personally I watch CNN, Euronews, SVT (swedish news), Tv4 (sweden), YLE (finland), BBC World, Bloomberg, CNBC and 3SAT & SAT1 (germany). And even if I'm watching such a broad range of channels it still feels as I'm watching the same news on every channel... some of them are better at showing a broader variety of news but most of them show the same stuff...

No what I'm proposing is this and nothing else:
- Wider range of news (not just the 10 standard headlines seen on all channels)
- More headlines about all fields (science, aviation, automotive etc. not just poitics and war)
- More science news (breakthrough science and what they're working on right now)
- More news about application of new technology (how can normal people benefit from all this new great stuff...)

G-CPTN
6th Dec 2006, 05:30
I concede that I'm only seeing (on the Beeb) what they are allowing me to read (this annoys me sometime as Radio will report something that never seems to surface on the website). I also share your feeling of dejas vu when alternative websites such as Skynews seem to trot out the same selections. Maybe the rot is deeper and stems back to the agencies such as Reuters? Maybe in these times we should pay more attention to http://english.aljazeera.net ?

Don't take my suggestion of propaganda too seriously, I frequently fly kites to attract further comment.

chuks
6th Dec 2006, 06:51
To have the reptiles looking in another direction than aviation is good news, as far as I am concerned. Bad news is good news when it comes to selling to the general public and if aviation is off the news then that means things are working properly.

Remember THE tsunami? The reptiles rode out to the scenes in those big, noisy, expensive and wasteful military helicopters to write about... what? A child's sandal dangling 20 feet up from a tree branch and suchlike.

Tug my heartstrings until they twang, please! Should they look around and write in a thoughtful way about how really useful the US military and its expensive toys proved to be? Puh-leeze!

If they keep their sticky paws off my bread and butter, aviation, so much the better. If you ever read about me in the press then that will mean I have screwed up.

Much effort was invested in getting everyone looking at the A380. More than half my class at London Met went out to Heathrow to watch it approach and land! Now the program is having big trouble, when it is, 'Hey, look at this new A350XWB! A380? Say what?'

Founder
6th Dec 2006, 10:03
I concede that I'm only seeing (on the Beeb) what they are allowing me to read (this annoys me sometime as Radio will report something that never seems to surface on the website). I also share your feeling of dejas vu when alternative websites such as Skynews seem to trot out the same selections. Maybe the rot is deeper and stems back to the agencies such as Reuters? Maybe in these times we should pay more attention to http://english.aljazeera.net ?

Don't take my suggestion of propaganda too seriously, I frequently fly kites to attract further comment.

you make a good point about the rot being deeper,...

btw Kites are great fun! =)

Re-Heat
7th Dec 2006, 13:54
Maybe in these times we should pay more attention to http://english.aljazeera.net ?
Well, if you want old-style BBC news reporting, Al Jazeera is the former BBC Arabic service, and highly regarded at that in news circles.

Pity that idiot Bush simply sees them as an agent of the enemy, whereas they are in fact highly impartial, to the extent that they are banned in some Arabic countries, due to reporting of material that is not to the liking of Arabic governments as well.

The SSK
7th Dec 2006, 14:13
The more I watch ordinary news the more angry I get over the fact that there is hardly any news at all about aviation in the regular news broadcasts.
Yea sure if there is a crash somewhere or an airline is going bankrupt, but never any news about new technologies or deals being made...
Am I the only one who feels this way or am I just watching the wrong news channels...? =)
Today's news items include:
The ongoing debate about including aviation in an Emissions Trading Scheme
The threat to the EU/US Open Skies talks
The impact of the increased UK Air Passenger Duty
The plight of Alitalia
US relaxing the rules on flight duty time
Hint: forget the TV, read the newspapers.