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SASless
5th Dec 2006, 01:47
Ran across this today...and find the presentation quite interesting when I think back to the UK that I knew in the 70's and the one I see now. I think we are headed down the same path but on a grander scale.:{

The future of the American military will be directly affected by the political decisions being made (or not made) today. I doubt we will be able to afford the foreign bases and military forces we have now. Perhaps we are not going to be the allies we have as a result of this one single issue.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=roy+beck&hl=en

Caractacus
5th Dec 2006, 06:33
Quantative confirmation of empirical evidence.

Travel accross the UK and observe the number of Eastern European immigrants. They are working hard and doing a good job. But the numbers? The 'Government' is beng wholly irresponsible.

One example:

Just how does a primary school cope when an extra ten Polish kids turn up in a class?

The bill for the additional infrastructure will the Britain hard.

Pontius Navigator
5th Dec 2006, 08:07
What does immigration do?

It balances the emigration :O ole

Jack Aubrey
5th Dec 2006, 09:01
I was visiting Cambridge yesterday with Mrs Aubrey. We were very surprised that we heard very few conversations in the street being conducted in English. Most of the speech we heard seemed to sound Polish or Russian. I was approached by a very drunk Englishman who aggressively demanded to know if I was English. (I have never seen a man so intoxicated but maintaining the vertical.)
There were also a lot of small groups of very raggedly dressed youngish men moving about rather quickly. I would guess from appearance only that their origin was the Baltic regions and their behaviour put me on my guard. They looked very like groups of street thieves I have seen in other places round the world. I was keen to leave before it got very dark.
That area of England, according to the Daily Mail, is swamped with foreign labourers in outlying farms. I doubt that much work was available yesterday due to the horrid weather.
Conclusions? Well, not a very scientific sample in one day in a place a long way from where I live, but...
Bearing in mind that our present government could not organise a p155 up in a brewery, it might be that the immigrants who are being allowed in to enrich our multicultural society are not doing so.
When the USA was taking in the poor and huddled masses, they had a place called Ellis Island where they vetted everybody. They were keen to get teachers, doctors, engineers etc. etc. They rejected those who might be a burden to them, i.e. those with criminal records, diseases and no visible means of self support.
I have read recently that TB is on the increase in the UK (the disease not the tw4t). I have also read that gangs of Eastern European men roam the streets of London and conduct scams like illegal fast food stalls, picking pockets and shoplifting. A while ago, the inevitable turf wars lead to an immigrant being beaten to death in an ambulance in a street in London in broad daylight.
It seems to me that...
a. The goverment is doing very little right in governing or controlling immigration.
b. That following EU rules to attempt to do so is probably less appropriate than having the British Parliament legislate rules that work, primarily, in the national interest.
c. It will get very much worse before the Beloved Leader or 'Callme' Dave will have a bl00dy clue what to do and the b4lls to do it.
d. I am bl00dy glad I live in a place where there is a lot of greenery and plenty of horse sh1t on the roads.
Or I might be talking/writing/typing complete bolleaux.
Cheers all.
Jack

mutleyfour
5th Dec 2006, 09:23
Its a cause of great concern and anguish in the Muttley household. Both Mrs Mutt and myself are worried for our children's sake for it is them that will inherit the problem.

GPMG
5th Dec 2006, 09:24
Oh well, this country's shagged. I hate the place now. 5 years and I'll hopefully be cracking open some VB in Tasmania. No way am I raising my little girl up in this labour hell hole.

airborne_artist
5th Dec 2006, 09:31
The UK had a significant influx of immigrants and refugees in the 1920s, 30s and 40s, and we seem to have survived it. I lived in Hammersmith in the early 80s around the corner from the Polish Cultural Centre. We have a thriving business in a nearby village started by a Ukrainian who didn't go back at the end of the war, which now employs plenty of skilled craftsmen.

If people come here to work, build a new life and pay taxes, fine. If they come to scrounge off the state, or steal from its citizens, then send them back.

spectre150
5th Dec 2006, 09:51
Caractacus - depends what you mean. Kids dont just 'turn up' of course, the parents have to get them a place like everyone else. Now if 10 sets of Polish parents all got their kids at the same school and maybe even the same class and their English language skills werent up to much there might be an issue but I know from personal experience that a young kid with NO English can learn very quickly and be up to speed language-wise - within a year (age of the child obviously important here).

Milt
5th Dec 2006, 10:52
CPMG

Hold hard. By the time you get to Tasmania it will be ruined also.

Runaway Gun
5th Dec 2006, 10:54
Tazzy will be fulla Brits :rolleyes:

Wyler
5th Dec 2006, 12:42
So the Tasmanians will look to leave due to the influx of foul mouthed drunken Brits!

Funny how people who are fed up with immigrants want to become ones themselves. Also, the country of choice (Aus) would not even be such an attractive place were it not for the millions of immigrants. :rolleyes:

Granted, the grass always seems greener....

Caractacus
5th Dec 2006, 13:16
spectre150, Have a read of this piece in the Daily Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/22/ndvd122.xml

BORN4THESKYS
5th Dec 2006, 13:37
On a small and controlled manageble scale not a problem. However on the scale we see today I would say a fu**ing nightmare for the current working class who have their roots established in this country. In my humble opinion current Eastern European immigration is very highly beneficial, that is to large corporate companys. I live in the south east and have the unfortunate pleasure of travelling into London every day on the tube, where over the last few years I have seen a significant rise in overcrowding. Services on public transport are struggling, tubes, buses etc are overstretched and pushed to the limit. Don't get me wrong I know London has always been busy, but more and more I am seeing tube platforms evacuated due to overcrowding, and its becoming more and more regular. Has nobody with half a brain realised that its affecting the infrastructure in this little country, transport, water supplies, housing etc etc, the list goes on and on. Its high time we started thinking of the future, and not just for the moment, but whats Labours answer, well we'll just let more in, why not, come on in Romania and Bulgaria, take what few jobs we have left why don't you!!! Hospitals, the police, how are all these coping, well if you speak to the people who actually work there most will say struggling, listen to Labour and well, things have never been better, bulls**t! I have not got a problem personally with the large number of Polish who come here to work, they are mostly hardworking and decent people, I blame the spineless politicians who have sold us down the line. There are only so many kobs to go around, and a housing shortage to match, and of course as there is a shortage, supply and demand dictates prices go up, not good news for young british trying to get on the ladder, or impossible for some, of course this does not affect our European friends as they mostly share accomodation and send money back home, so its only us who suffer. Listening to Mr Reid makes me laugh, he reckons tough new restrictions will be put in place to stop the copious influx of Romanians and Bulgarians who want to come here in January 2007 difficult, yeh right, we've heard it all before. I would even go as far to say thats its near impossible to stop it, because of Human rights laws and the right to have freedom to move between different European countrys, even the cheeky Turks who have not even signed papers to join said they would contemplate sueing the British goverment if we ever tryed to impose restrictions on them, cheeky bas**rds!! Like I said before if you own a business its great news, cheap labour and people who do not know employment rights fully etc, an employers dream, rights which has taken years to contruct and put into place through parliament. The only way be can ever fully manage our country is to get out the EU, I trully believe its the only way, beacsue all the time we're in it, we'll be bullied around, and our pathetic politicians will do nothing, our goverment is all but becoming powerless in many instances, we already have many unelected offcials telling us what to do in Europe.

Its when you hear even the liberals complaining about the above you know you have a problem, its time we started looking after our own folk before anyone else, fullstop!!!:)

Maple 01
5th Dec 2006, 14:01
What does immigration do for a nation?

Oh I dunno, given us shed-loads of academics, professionals, artists,scientists, writers, hard working motivated individuals, loyal servicemen etc, improved the gene pool, brought in new ideas and investment, rejuvenated the place – ah, they are OK by-and-large

Little Englanders may now free-fire with Daily Mail responses

airborne_artist
5th Dec 2006, 14:27
In the late 70s we had four people in B squadron of 21 whose parents were Polish. One was a surgeon, one a lawyer and I think the other two were pretty bright and successful. Their families had clearly integrated well. And that's the point I think.

Fg Off Max Stout
5th Dec 2006, 14:54
I have no problem whatsoever with well managed immigration. As Maple says, the UK has benefited greatly from welcoming skilled immigrants in the past. I'm also all for a bit of gene pool mixing with those Eastern European girls. The problem at the moment is that the Government seems to have abandoned any management of immigration, now allowing anyone in, no questions asked. As a result, a large proportion of those coming to the UK are here to take advantage of our benefits system, bring nothing positive with them and refuse to integrate into society. British infrastructure is creaking under the load. I don't think anyone could say that there is not a problem worthy of atttention here.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
5th Dec 2006, 16:19
Immigration of whatever ethnicity provides us with the opportunity to boost our consumer demand lead economy. The added bonus is that it creates a demand for additional housing to the advantage of the building trade. This further boosts our economy while providing employment for many of the immigrants. A further bonus, of course, is the improved value of land which further adds to our national wealth and Government revenue.

This is the time to seize the moment and embrace the benefits. For as long as there is one green field left in our pleasant land, there is an opportunity to create wealth. In addition to this, we should reopen interest in the language of Esperanto and become the World leader. Is it not better that we forge ahead with a new modern language where, in time, Nations and Races will be able to converse freely without the barrier of diverse language.

Maple 01
5th Dec 2006, 19:27
we should reopen interest in the language of Esperanto

Hell's teeth man! Did we paint a quarter of the globe with the pink of Empire and force the natives to speak English or die for nothing? There are two languages in the world, Queen's English and Foreign

BTW Immigrants gave us the Atom bomb too!:D :ok:

MarkD
5th Dec 2006, 21:10
In the late 70s we had four people in B squadron of 21 whose parents were Polish. One was a surgeon, one a lawyer and I think the other two were pretty bright and successful. Their families had clearly integrated well. And that's the point I think.
Airborne - any of the parents feature in Battle of Britain? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/) :D
In those days I doubt there were too many people worrying about the culture of the Poles and setting up taxpayer funded support groups. I suspect they went to standard English schools and took stick for being different but got on with life. Now integration is a dirty word, not only for immigrants but their children and their children. English culture doesn't evolve by such policies, it fragments.

An Teallach
5th Dec 2006, 21:37
What does immigration do for a nation? I wonder what this chap might say on the matter?
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/images/joseph1.jpg
European Americans whingeing about immigration. I've heard it all now!

SASless
6th Dec 2006, 00:17
AT,

You must not have viewed the video.....it is "uncontrolled" immigration that is the problem....not immigration in and of its self.

Course your problems with such began in 1099 did it not?

Samuel
6th Dec 2006, 01:03
Immigration, if properly controlled, can reward and enrich the receiving country immeasurably. New Zealand, for example, is a vastly different country to that of thirty years ago, despite continued immigration in large numbers from the UK. We are no longer that 'little Britain' in the Pacific, because immigration has diversified. It is no longer unusual to hear British, American, or South African accents, and the emergency department at my local hospital has all three!

I doubt any other country in the world would want to hold up the UK immigration policy as a model!

An Teallach
6th Dec 2006, 09:24
SASLess

Glad to see irony remains merely an adjective describing something ferrous over there. ;)

I wonder if Chief Joseph thought C19th European immigration to the US was controlled?

As to our problems beginning in 1099, I dare say if you were to ask a Pict, they'd say the problems began with the bloody Scots @ 565 AD. Then again, the Scots would say problems began with the bloody Norse @ 800 AD. Being of mixed Scoto-Norse ancestry, I'm rather glad they all came.

mutleyfour
6th Dec 2006, 09:42
In the late 70s we had four people in B squadron of 21 whose parents were Polish. One was a surgeon, one a lawyer and I think the other two were pretty bright and successful. Their families had clearly integrated well. And that's the point I think.


Whilst I was in Cyprus I took my motorcycle test. It took about a minute and I swear the tester had only one eye and couldnt ride a bike. He asked me to ride from the test centre no more than 30 metres and turn round and come back, which I duly completed. With pass certificate in hand I was then qualified to ride a motorcycle of any size. Upon return to the UK i merely had to send my Cypriot licence to the DVLA and hey presto its on my UK Licence too.

So whats my point? Don't assume that somebody whom is qualified in Poland is as well trained as somebody trained in the UK.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
6th Dec 2006, 15:26
Maple 01

Glad you took my Post (Srl 17) with the humour intended. The serious side to my Post was that the Government nor their alleged opponents really care. I do believe they deliberately want to increase the size of our population at any cost.

As for immigration; take the ones we need and mag the rest!

luke77
6th Dec 2006, 15:40
So, who will we vote for?

Can't be Labour surely?

And if hugging hoodies is the other option, then I doubt the immigration policy will be of any use?

Umm... Umm...

And I really don't want to vote BNP....

Bring back Lord Such! :mad:

GPMG
6th Dec 2006, 15:52
Doug Stanhope for President.

modtinbasher
6th Dec 2006, 20:56
[quoteWhat does immigration do?

It balances the emigration :O ole[/quote]



It also gives us stuff that we eradicated many, many years ago. Like Tuberculosis (TB) for example. It was revealed in Parliament yesterday that TB was not only in this country again but had increased by 20% over the last 2 years! My own GP is totally shocked by it's resurgence.

And what about the relevation that there were "at least an additional 300,000 extra cases of imported Hepatitis since we opened our borders to the Eastern Europeans.....!"

Personally, I don't think this is a laughing matter, and it doesn' t account for much when we live in a country that can no longer look after it's own in terms of 2.50 worth of drugs a week for an Altzeimers sufferer, yet we are playing and paying host to a bunch of near-do-wells that are here for one thing, and one thing only!

Pontius Navigator
6th Dec 2006, 21:42
modtinbasher,

You remind me about an article in Private Eye a few years ago. May even have been a Labour Government in power then too.:)

In Parliament, "I ask the Rt Hon Minister for Health, how many cases of smallpox were there last year?"

" I am pleased to say that the last year for which we have records that there were no cases of smallpox in the indigenous population."

Bo boom. Spin now, spin then.

Metro man
7th Dec 2006, 00:16
At least the East Europeans are white/Christian and will assimilate. No need to worry about terror plots, riots or being expected to change your way of life to suit them. So look on the bright side :E

mccdatabase
7th Dec 2006, 00:26
What has immigration and the influx of so called assylum seekers done for us??

loads actually

1/pushed up taxes and house prices
2/ pushed up demand on the NHS and education services
3/pushed up the costs of benefits and social services
4/pushed up crime and begging
5/pushed up cases of drug resistant TB and AIDS/HIV
6/pushed up the popularity and electability of far right political parties

I guess there are many more things that uncontrolled immigration gives us but I am struggling to think of many positives

I will now stand back and await the wooly liberal responses!!!

MReyn24050
7th Dec 2006, 00:30
No, you are spot on.
Mel

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 01:15
Every single "American" is an immigrant for crying out loud. Okay people went over there from Europe, screwed over the Indians, gave their own countries the finger and boom, done deal. America was born. Now "Americans" are fat dumb and happy with their deal and would very much like to keep it to themselves. No more immigrants pretty please. (Unless they're Mexicans doing gardening for 1$ per hour under the table of course). So how about less pretty graphs please and more straight talk. You have a pie, and you don't want to share anymore. Straightforward enough.

con-pilot
7th Dec 2006, 02:12
Every single "American" is an immigrant for crying out loud. Okay people went over there from Europe, screwed over the Indians, gave their own countries the finger and boom, done deal. America was born. Now "Americans" are fat dumb and happy with their deal and would very much like to keep it to themselves. No more immigrants pretty please. (Unless they're Mexicans doing gardening for 1$ per hour under the table of course). So how about less pretty graphs please and more straight talk. You have a pie, and you don't want to share anymore. Straightforward enough.


And your point is?

Lack of jealousy is not your strong point is it. :=

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 02:14
:}

Please

brickhistory
7th Dec 2006, 02:31
Every single "American" is an immigrant for crying out loud.

Including the Indians if you want to extend your analogy far enough back. That landbridge in the Berings Sea sure did come in handy some thousands of years back.


Okay people went over there from Europe, screwed over the Indians, gave their own countries the finger and boom, done deal. America was born.

Is that the history of the New World you're taught? Fairly sure we didn't 'do over' all the Indians until AFTER we were an independent nation. But what would I know, I'm just a fat, dumb American which leads me to...


Now "Americans" are fat dumb and happy with their deal and would very much like to keep it to themselves.

Doesn't sound so dumb to me.

No more immigrants pretty please. (Unless they're Mexicans doing gardening for 1$ per hour under the table of course). So how about less pretty graphs please and more straight talk. You have a pie, and you don't want to share anymore. Straightforward enough.

And the ease of and welcome for immigration in your fair land is?

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 02:32
I just got debunked. Doh...

con-pilot
7th Dec 2006, 02:49
Brick, a double post there my friend.

Now back to what's is face.

Please

Okay, "Please" what? You say you like yanking the chains of "Yanks" around, so to speak. You have different rules for you? Because you are Swedish you are some how special? :D :D :D

I'll tell you what. I'm nearly 60, I'll sell my house and move to Sweden, okay? Of course I will not work or pay taxes. No, my wife and I will just live off of you and your fellow citizens. You won't mind that will you?

Didn't think so, we'll be there in a couple of months. :ok:

Oh, I like chicken fried steak, Bud light, BBQ, Mexican food, Johnnie Walker Red, really thick steaks and I am too old to learn a new language, so you guys need to have everything in English for my wife and me.

Oh yeah, one more thing. My 6 year old grandson will probably come over and spend a few years with us, so all your schools need to be taught in English. I'm sure that will be okay.

Great, see you soon. :}

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 03:10
Brick, a double post there my friend.
Now back to what's is face.
Okay, "Please" what? You say you like yanking the chains of "Yanks" around, so to speak. You have different rules for you? Because you are Swedish you are some how special? :D :D :D
I'll tell you what. I'm nearly 60, I'll sell my house and move to Sweden, okay? Of course I will not work or pay taxes. No, my wife and I will just live off of you and your fellow citizens. You won't mind that will you?
Didn't think so, we'll be there in a couple of months. :ok:
Oh, I like chicken fried steak, Bud light, BBQ, Mexican food, Johnnie Walker Red, really thick steaks and I am too old to learn a new language, so you guys need to have everything in English for my wife and me. Oh yeah, one more thing. My 6 year old grandson will probably come over and spend a few years with us, so all your schools need to be taught in English. I'm sure that will be okay.
Great, see you soon. :}

Simple really you implied I am jealous, to which I said "please" as in "please you are so far off you really should go back to the tv" however I was feeling lazy.

Sure come on over, you'll have a ball. We pretty much all speak English too so you're set. Given your taste in beer I'd say a visit is imperative to be honest. I've had bud light and quite frankly tap water is cheaper, healthier and tastier to boot.

As far as yanking chains, you bet I do. Especially chains attached to people who take themselves too seriously, and that most certainly includes middle-aged American men.

Because I am Swedish I am somehow special? My good man, we are all special.

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 03:16
God, Johnnie Walker Red? Two words free of charge.
Single
Malt
We really must talk before your taste buds suicide themselves. :E

con-pilot
7th Dec 2006, 04:05
We really must talk before your taste buds suicide themselves.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. I am moving to Sweden, you have to change to suite my needs.

Other than that, you are an okay guy. :ok:

(By the way, I'll take all the Johnnie Walker Red you want to get rid of, no problem. Oh, I need B&B as well, you'll take of that will you, that's a good chap. :p )

Airbus38
7th Dec 2006, 04:17
I'm not a wooly lefty by any stretch - but I think some of you guys ought to have more balanced views. So you come from Nigeria/Zimbabwe/(endless list of countries) and you oppose something the government (say). You are a qualified doctor/lawyer/accountant and want to work, you have a family and just want a simple life with what's best for them.

Unfortunately, you get thrown in prison for your opposition. What are your options? Like all of you would do, you try to get out and come to a country with a supposed 'democracy' of which it is proud. You badly want to work, but ignorant tossers won't even give you a second look because you're foreign. Either that, or all you get is people saying 'They come over here and take all our jobs!' What do you do now?

Personally, I think our biggest problem is the lazy b*stards who actually come from this country, whom we pay for. Yes, I'm sure some immigrants are the same...but no worse than the natives themselves. You simply can't write somebody off because they come from a different country. People who do that ought to go and seek out some of these 'foreigners' and see exactly what life is like for them here in our wonderful democratic nation.

arcniz
7th Dec 2006, 06:30
Gnirren is offline

Every single "American" is an immigrant for crying out loud. Okay people went over there from Europe, screwed over the Indians, gave their own countries the finger and boom, done deal. America was born. Now "Americans" are fat dumb and happy with their deal and would very much like to keep it to themselves. No more immigrants pretty please. (Unless they're Mexicans doing gardening for 1$ per hour under the table of course). So how about less pretty graphs please and more straight talk. You have a pie, and you don't want to share anymore. Straightforward enough.

Hey Gnirren - You write like an American, idiomatically speaking, and you consistently bietch like a wounded turkey. What's the deal? It sounds as though you're a either a fraud and a troll or a very disturbed person. Why not fess up, instead of embarassing the Swedes?

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 09:04
Uh... gobble gobble?

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 11:08
I'm not a wooly lefty by any stretch - but I think some of you guys ought to have more balanced views. So you come from Nigeria/Zimbabwe/(endless list of countries) and you oppose something the government (say). You are a qualified doctor/lawyer/accountant and want to work, you have a family and just want a simple life with what's best for them.
Unfortunately, you get thrown in prison for your opposition. What are your options? Like all of you would do, you try to get out and come to a country with a supposed 'democracy' of which it is proud. You badly want to work, but ignorant tossers won't even give you a second look because you're foreign. Either that, or all you get is people saying 'They come over here and take all our jobs!' What do you do now?
Personally, I think our biggest problem is the lazy b*stards who actually come from this country, whom we pay for. Yes, I'm sure some immigrants are the same...but no worse than the natives themselves. You simply can't write somebody off because they come from a different country. People who do that ought to go and seek out some of these 'foreigners' and see exactly what life is like for them here in our wonderful democratic nation.

That illustrates the jest of my original point rather well. America is a country based on immigration and it has received its power through diversity. The idea to come to the country with nothing and build a life for yourself is the "American dream" defined is it not? Yet all of a sudden the ones who made their fortunes already say "That's enough of that, no more immigrants please. I'm already in, screw the rest. They come in and take our jobs, our women, change our favorite steak sauces..." I can think of a number of born nationals be they British, American or Swedish who I'd be more than happy to trade for 10 hard working Africans simply looking to avoid getting a bullet in the head because of inconvenient opinions.

Ultimately what you have to decide is, is helping a scared human being running from torture and oppression the right thing to do or is it not?

There's of course a flipside to this coin, and I'm perfectly aware of it thank you very much. I might just post something about it too, but right now I have to eat.

brickhistory
7th Dec 2006, 11:59
I might just post something about it too, but right now I have to eat.

Showing your solidarity with your Darfur brothers then?

mccdatabase
7th Dec 2006, 13:04
Ultimately what you have to decide is, is helping a scared human being running from torture and oppression the right thing to do or is it not?

I have no issue with helping the few who fall into that category provided they are distributed amongst civillised states worldwide, however 95% of these "scared human beings" are nothing of the sort, they are economic migrants claiming to be oppressed, and they head for the country with the most generous benefit and healthcare systems.

The plain fact is that the taxpayers of countries like the UK are sick and fed up with seeing these freeloaders arrive on our shores expecting free health care, housing, financial support, education and all the other benefits that we offer.They are encouraged by dishonest scumbag lawyers who will represent them at cost to our legal aid system when the authorities try and deport them.Once they get over the border it is extremely difficult and costly to remove these scroungers.

Please bear in mind that the UK government boasts our NHS is the envy of the world, yet people born and bred here who have worked and payed taxes all their working lives who are suffering some of the most awful diseases like alzheimers are denied effective drug therapies on cost grounds, yet illegal immigrants can make it into the UK and demand and get treatment for things like HIV and TB on our NHS, it makes you wonder where the priorities lie!!

There is a limit as to how much a countries population should be asked to pay to assist those who come to our shores seeking a better life and I am sad to say that the limt was exceeded years ago in the UK s case

The problems we have in the UK today with ever rising taxes, housing shortages, racial tension, NHS shortages, road congestion, failing education are mainly down to one cause - overpoulation! we need strict control of entry to the UK for ALL would be immigrants

The few cannot and must not go on financially supporting the many like this


ever heard of the Golden Goose???

Gnirren
7th Dec 2006, 13:20
I have no issue with helping the few who fall into that category provided they are distributed amongst civillised states worldwide, however 95% of these "scared human beings" are nothing of the sort, they are economic migrants claiming to be oppressed, and they head for the country with the most generous benefit and healthcare systems.
The plain fact is that the taxpayers of countries like the UK are sick and fed up with seeing these freeloaders arrive on our shores expecting free health care, housing, financial support, education and all the other benefits that we offer.They are encouraged by dishonest scumbag lawyers who will represent them at cost to our legal aid system when the authorities try and deport them.Once they get over the border it is extremely difficult and costly to remove these scroungers.
Please bear in mind that the UK government boasts our NHS is the envy of the world, yet people born and bred here who have worked and payed taxes all their working lives who are suffering some of the most awful diseases like alzheimers are denied effective drug therapies on cost grounds, yet illegal immigrants can make it into the UK and demand and get treatment for things like HIV and TB on our NHS, it makes you wonder where the priorities lie!!
There is a limit as to how much a countries population should be asked to pay to assist those who come to our shores seeking a better life and I am sad to say that the limt was exceeded years ago in the UK s case
The problems we have in the UK today with ever rising taxes, housing shortages, racial tension, NHS shortages, road congestion, failing education are mainly down to one cause - overpoulation! we need strict control of entry to the UK for ALL would be immigrants
The few cannot and must not go on financially supporting the many like this
ever heard of the Golden Goose???

Quite. That would be the flip side of the coin, so now I don't have to write it. We're quite familiar with this in Sweden and we are most certainly burdened by the predominantly middle-eastern immigrants that come in to our country.
If you where to look into it you would find that Sweden has a track record of admitting an amazing amount of immigrants especially considering its size as a country.

I will agree that the selective process need to be capable of filtering out those seeking to profiteer and there is a line that needs to be drawn however painful that may be. Sweden, like any single nation won't be able to help the entire world and that's easy enough to understand. The question is where the line is to be drawn and to what extend the native citizens are prepared to accommodate immigrants. I will do my best of course because I believe this is the right thing to do, but I also appreciate that there is a limit for me as well. To help those in need should always be a priority, but like most people (I suspect) I would be hesitant to complete surrender the lifestyle that I have come to enjoy for the benefit of someone else. Call it a personal flaw or human shortcoming if you will. In a perfect world we would all pull together for an equal existence but sadly that will never happen.

One thing that I do find on this topic is the complete and utter inability of snug westerners myself included to appreciate the circumstances and experiences of many of these asylum seekers.

I didn't say this was an easy question, and for good reason.

mccdatabase
7th Dec 2006, 13:53
One thing that I do find on this topic is the complete and utter inability of snug westerners myself included to appreciate the circumstances and experiences of many of these asylum seekers.

I think you might find it is not an inability to appreciate the circumstances, rather than a realisation that westerners are not the magic cure that these people seem to think they are

What they do not seem to want to understand is that the West went through similar experiences and privations in the late 19th and early 20th century and through hard work, democracy and detemination we built states that looked after their populations and provided some form of welfare when people fell on hard times.

To think that they can turn up on our doorsteps and expect support just because it is easier than sorting out their own countries problems is just plain wrong and I for one am sick of paying tax to support these freeloaders

tornadoken
7th Dec 2006, 16:21
OK, I'll bite. Anything to staunch the stench of tabloid trash. A: It enhances our human capital.

60Mn. mouths, maybe half are economically active, of which maybe 33% are served by the infrastructure of the rest - Health/Education/ Welfare/Order - police/Defence. Not saying public sector are drudges, just noting all facilitate wealth creation, but few do it first hand. So, say 1-in-6 of us must sell brain or brawn at a value which can feed the rest of us. We do this by open trade.

In days of yore Brit wit was smarter than many other bears'. We pumped, grew, made things, to exchange for food and heat. Don't do much of that now. Look at a newborn Brit brain under a microscope and see how it differs from...any other. Nature all the same, nurture was our advantage, but now that is matched, even in Timbuctu. All this is good. So: Q: how to sell 1 man hour at a price to feed 6, when every day China, India and more create Good-as-You factory workers and brain surgeons? A: support our earners off another Nation's taxes. Guess our saving when the Govt. of, say Philippines sends us a nurse meeting NHS standards. The poor aiding the rich.

Even Chirac has at last rumbled this and is removing barriers on the recent 10 Accession Nations earlier than the 7 years he had intended. The best of them, those with get up and go, are here.


Even a BNP Member might go along with this, so: what about the scroungers (in Oz they (many, Pom) are bludgers.) There is a system to try to filter them out. Unpleasant job, in payout Offices, Immigration Centres, your local nick. Nobody likes it, or suggests we do it well. There's a reason for that. We do it with gloves on, not jackboots.

High Wing Drifter
7th Dec 2006, 19:12
If you think of people as bandwidth (like roads) and the economy as traffic, then if you don't have the bandwidth you don't have the economic growth.

If economic growth stagnates, then there are only two possibilities: 1) It plateaus - which is can only be transient 2) We enter a recession. Given that 1) is a transient condition, 2) will always follow.

I suppose the flying parallel is coffin corner!

Blacksheep
8th Dec 2006, 01:11
One thing that I do find on this topic is the complete and utter inability of snug westerners myself included to appreciate the circumstances and experiences of many of these asylum seekers. I might mention the circumstances and experiences of many of our own people. In the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the descendents of my Great Uncles and Great Aunts who left these shores to escape poverty and deprivation. We police British Columbia and have lakes and a river named after us. We make sheepskin rugs, or solicit (legally) in New Zealand. We build tall buildings and drive road trains in Australia. I'm not too sure what we do in California but Great Aunt Ethel was an artist and original hippy. When I last saw her (aged 92) she was smoking a pipe and giving a San Francisco taxi driver a hard time. Migration is a normal, natural process. Economic pressure forces people to up sticks and move into other peoples' territory. There is some resistance at first, but in the end comes acceptance and by the third generation they can never go back.