A non JAA type rating - A cost effective alternative?

[scameron77]

Hi All,

Just looking to pick a few brains really, some tangible and reasoned accounts would be welcomed, while emotion fuelled rants and conjecture are not. Just setting out my stall before post 6 when most threads tend to go to rat ****.

Part 1

I'm now at the stage in my training where I'm taking more of a view on this particular forum as I hope to do my MCC in the next 2 months.

Issues that are important for me are:

1) The quality of the instruction given
2) A proven track record of progression to interviews via the provider
3) If the environment will give a good grounding for sim checks in the future
4) Cost

Which leads me to.

Part 2

After this then the whole "Will I go off on my own for a TR or won't I?" debate will have a little conflict in my brain. That debate has been covered in depth in other threads and from the points raised I have formed my own opinion.

I personally think that in the current market no matter what you do as a recently qualified fATPL pilot you will pay for a TR in one way or another. Wither it be:

1) Direct (ie off your own back then tout your CV around)
2) A self sponsored scheme (ie Ryanair - guaranteed job on completion after passing an assessment)
3) CTC ATP Type scheme (which on paper is the best deal out there at the moment but no applications accepted until 'early new year' as I was informed in an email from CTC head office this morning)
4) A bond with a reduced salary for x number of years (ie the CTC Cadets)

Obviously the only differences to the above is that some involve paying up front, some you drip feed back to your employer over time. Some involve a high degree of risk on the part of the individual, some place this on the employer.

New one to be dishartened, I have tried to think outside the box as it were and think of alternative ways into the job market with limited risk and maximising my current bank balance level. So it got me thinking. I know a number of establishments in the US that do 737/757/767/A320 from anything ranging from USD 7,000 to 12,000.

Now before people start reaching for their mouse to hit the 'reply to post' button to lambast me and to point out that a US type rating does not involve a base check (6 t/o's and landings) as we do here in JAR-land, do not fear I have investigated this already.

Which leads me to my proposal (advice or examples of success' or failures are greatly accepted). I draw those reading this to a couple of quality posts by Dan98 http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253945 and Pilot Pete http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6911additionally this one started by BongleBear currently is of particular relevancehttp://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251126:

Dan98 thread seemed to highlight a few things for me, never give up, explore every avenue, knock at their door until they give in and finally, even little achievements which prove competence go a long way (I'm citing his success with Ryanair at the sim check and subsequent invite for an interview with FlyGlobespan - that little extra tick moved him from the 'same old' pile into the 'potentials')

Consequently:

Part 3 - Potential Solution

1) A MCC provider who satisfies the criteria in part one of this post, any suggestions?
2) If fATPL holders were to attain a US TR at a fraction of the cost (without the base check), would that help grease the wheels to an interview?
3) Any evidence of employers willing to look at people with a fATPL and TR and without base check & 0 hours on type?

Regards,

Stephen

[hollywood1983]

4) A bond with a reduced salary for x number of years (ie the CTC Cadets)



CTC cadets have a reduced salary to pay back the investment in training. CTC pay for the AQC (MCC plus extras) and the AIRLINE pays for the Type Rating. Cadet only pays for CPL/IR.

[Avadoo]

Cant directly answer your q's but I did look at another route....... A Canadian
rating on either Boeing or Airbus, carried out by a company JAA approved in two, full-member, JAA states. Last year the ratings and test worked out at
approx 8.5k sterling. Add to this 3.5 to 5k for your circuits and away you go, apparently.
At the time 13.5k was a big improvement on 18K in the UK, plus there were possible leads from the circuit detail!!
However, something slightly more inviting came along before I had the chance to test the system.

Good luck!

[scameron77]

OK Hollywood1983,

Thanks for endorsing that there was no incorrect information with what I typed.

The issue is that the CTC cadets do get a reduced salary and a bond, the details and minutia of their particular contract was not being examined in this post as I'm sure anyone thinking of pursuing the CTC route would first look at a CTC specific thread.

However thanks for the input.

[potkettleblack]

CTC is the closest thing to a sure bet that any modular wannabee is going to come across. It really is a no brainer. If you meet the criteria then go for it.

People keep on banging on about the reduced salary but who really cares. Fact is you will be flying for a reputable financially secure airline (Monarch, Easy et al) in the RHS of a jet and your career is sorted for life from day 1. No instructing on 152's, no trying to beg borrow or steal get some multi time, no hoping that some blokes mate of a mate might lets you fly his kingair as a safety pilot, no sending off 200 cv's and sitting around losing currency until the day you eventually land a TP job and get to earn £18k whilst spending all of it on repaying your debt.

Your only concern is what major airline would you like to move onto after you have a few thousand jet hours should you decide that the charter/loco market isn't for you.

[scameron77]

With the applications currently on hold at CTC, then here is the dilemma:

1) Wait until it opens (early 2007 CTC seem to think), so lets say best case scenario March, 2 months to get all the tests, interviews, etc. completed. If successful onto the AQC maybe looking June/July, TR in August, Line Training September

Alternative:

2) Bite the bullet, try and get Ryanair in Jan/Feb and potentially have 300-500 line hours under your belt by the same time you'd be starting CTC. Granted approx £14,000 worse off than if I waited but then again, its an open ended wait.

Let me just emphasise, CTC ATP was my aim, but the fuzzy nature of when the pool will open again and my desire and drive to finally start doing this flying milarky for a bonifide job is kicking in now.

[scameron77]

The whole purpose of this thread was to get a rough idea from my peers or those ahead of me of adding a feather to my bow so to speak.

The purpose of suggesting doing the FAA TR was to gain experience of a heavy jet environment (cheaply) that would assist and potentially being yet another newly qualified fATPL pilot in the 'inbox' of the Chief Pilots Outloook to someone who would be seen as more of a viable candidate based on the proven demonstration of an extra degree of ability and reduction of risk for the airline.

The actual qualification itself I would resign to only be of use in addition to my FAA CPL/IR/ME (consequently a possible job in the Far East or other FAA recognised country - subject to a work permit). Plus an added bonus of being reasonably proficient if you were asked to do a JAA TR from scratch with a UK/European employer.

From actualy stories on here there is evidence that even just a minor thing in your CV in the big scheme of things can be viewed in a good light by employers and make me as a commodity more viable and grease that path to the first job.