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Omykron
1st Dec 2006, 18:23
Thank you for that response.

I think that probably summarizes the circumstances that exist now. I don't think that is the every day law.

Normally, I would guess that there needs to be a law that allows a court to prevented someone from leaving the country. It has to be something more than that a criminal investigation is happening because those can take a long time, etc.
no.

The real question is what is required for a Brazilian court to prevent someone from leaving the country?
In the case of N600XL pilots, the right of legal defense is in the Brazilian constitution, the procedures referring to the inquiry (incluive the apprehension of the passports) in the Code of criminal procedure.

There have to be rules in Brazil before you can take away someone's freedom. What are those rules and do they apply here? To me, that's the real question.they AREN'T arrested.
so, they are free. They cannot leave the country before they can defend themselves justice.

Before someone blame the Brazilian Justice, just remember that, the ATC, and the pilots are suspected of involvement. The justice want to know if they where victims of a sequence of events that lead the mid-air collision, or if they are guilty of flying in a dangerous way.

Look, I am not an lawyer. I just want to help foreigners to understand what is happening here in Brazil in the investigation of this terrible crash.

A310driver
2nd Dec 2006, 11:13
I guess this has become a dead topic while two pilots cool their jets in Brazil waiting for someone to figure out if a crime was committed ...after two months you would think the rule books could have been read to see what violation of criminal law took place.

agusaleale
2nd Dec 2006, 11:19
no.

In the case of N600XL pilots, the right of legal defense is in the Brazilian constitution, the procedures referring to the inquiry (incluive the apprehension of the passports) in the Code of criminal procedure.
they AREN'T arrested.
so, they are free. They cannot leave the country before they can defend themselves justice.

Before someone blame the Brazilian Justice, just remember that, the ATC, and the pilots are suspected of involvement. The justice want to know if they where victims of a sequence of events that lead the mid-air collision, or if they are guilty of flying in a dangerous way.

Look, I am not an lawyer. I just want to help foreigners to understand what is happening here in Brazil in the investigation of this terrible crash.
I think you didn´t read the post properly. Nobody spoke about arrest, simply not freedom. Do you think people in Cuba are arrested?

GlueBall
2nd Dec 2006, 14:07
The passenger-photographer's camera was destroyed, but its flash memory card had survived. . . .

http://ct.pbase.com/g6/61/731061/3/71073752.MxMYmK9v.jpg
http://ct.pbase.com/g6/61/731061/3/71073734.dHK86TJB.jpg

Graybeard
2nd Dec 2006, 14:14
The pix are fake, as you will see, especially if you study both of them. I've seen them before. That appears to be a two aisle airplane, in the first place.

Those were probably first published in Brasil, why I don't know, but it has kept the specter alive.
GB

piombo
2nd Dec 2006, 14:23
Please, remove this fotos since they are neither from inside the Gol airplane nor there is a wide body in the Gol fleet. The pictured passengers in here are very unlikely Brazilians as one that knows the average brazilian knows:
1.They do not dress like this unless there is an special event,
2. The magiority of the Brazilian population is of mixed color, especially in that region where the traces of the Indian etnics are evident.
Besides,the tail you can see in the bakground has a blueish star and not an orange G.
So either this is a very bad taste hoax or is taken from a movie picture sequence.

GlueBall
2nd Dec 2006, 14:42
GOL B737-8CX cabin

http://ct.pbase.com/g6/61/731061/3/71075045.hfPnNAP0.jpg

caos
2nd Dec 2006, 14:52
Please, remove this fotos since they are neither from inside the Gol airplane nor there is a wide body in the Gol fleet. The pictured passengers in here are very unlikely Brazilians as one that knows the average brazilian knows:
1.They do not dress like this unless there is an special event,
2. The magiority of the Brazilian population is of mixed color, especially in that region where the traces of the Indian etnics are evident.
Besides,the tail you can see in the bakground has a blueish star and not an orange G.
So either this is a very bad taste hoax or is taken from a movie picture sequence.
Agree, very bad taste, please remove them.
The movie is TV serial "Lost".

forget
2nd Dec 2006, 15:13
Mods - Please wipe the whole lot. Fake maybe - but for a moment I was taken in - and it was bloody unpleasant. :* :*

SLFguy
2nd Dec 2006, 15:31
Mods - Please wipe the whole lot. Fake maybe - but for a moment I was taken in - and it was bloody unpleasant. :* :*


Were you?!!...I mean, really?

janpieter
2nd Dec 2006, 16:11
Pictures are taken from a movie :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBo5rr2aEOc

Grtz

Tarq57
2nd Dec 2006, 22:19
You seem to be one of those guys who want to change the world… so romantic

So derogatory, verging on condescension.
Yes, reality rules today. I think we all know that.
But what on earth is wrong with wanting to change the world?

E1405
2nd Dec 2006, 22:34
So derogatory, verging on condescension.
Yes, reality rules today. I think we all know that.
But what on earth is wrong with wanting to change the world?


Nothing, since you respect the freedom of thinking and understanding of others (people and countries). Unfortunately that’s not the case sometimes here...

E1405
2nd Dec 2006, 22:38
So derogatory, verging on condescension.
Yes, reality rules today. I think we all know that.
But what on earth is wrong with wanting to change the world?

Nothing, since you respect the freedom of thinking and understanding of others (person and countries). Unfortunately that’s not the case sometimes here...

ExSimGuy
3rd Dec 2006, 03:36
Hoping that they'll at least be back with their families in US in time for "last minute Christmas shopping" :)

(does anyone know if they are still on payroll - hope so)

Scurvy.D.Dog
3rd Dec 2006, 03:40
frimm, MJ, VA et al :D

ironbutt57
3rd Dec 2006, 04:00
Like the way the criminal investigation started before anybody even knew the facts of the accident....typical third world:hmm:

Wino
3rd Dec 2006, 04:11
To all defending the disgusting brazilian government's behavior....

I have a simple question.

Doesn't Brazil have an extradition treaty with the USA? If so then there is absolutely NO reason to hold em in brazil. If charged later they can always be extradited. Telephones and written depositions can suffice for any questions that might come up in the interim.

This is shamefull behavior making brazil look like a backwater 3rd world country.

Cheers
Wino

E1405
3rd Dec 2006, 05:27
This is shamefull behavior making brazil look like a backwater 3rd world country.




Imho Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan and many, many others are not the best behavior. But you guys could think the US is making justice, don’t you?

Anyways, the pilots will be released soon. There’s logic on the Brazilian procedure. Actually, it's more reasonable than the US logic sometimes…

BUSHJEPPY
3rd Dec 2006, 05:38
To all defending the disgusting brazilian government's behavior....
I have a simple question.
Doesn't Brazil have an extradition treaty with the USA? If so then there is absolutely NO reason to hold em in brazil. If charged later they can always be extradited. Telephones and written depositions can suffice for any questions that might come up in the interim.
This is shamefull behavior making brazil look like a backwater 3rd world country.
Cheers
Wino

Even if Brazil has an extradition treaty with the USA, do you really think that the arrogant US governement will hand them back := It would even not extradite their war criminals...but on the other hand detain illegally people in Gitmo in breach of Geneva Conventions. What an example for a "FREE AND DEMOCRATIC" first world country"

At least Brazil do have laws :D

FreeJoe&Jan
3rd Dec 2006, 06:04
Imho Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan and many, many others are not the best behavior. But you guys could think the US is making justice, don’t you?

Anyways, the pilots will be released soon. There’s logic on the Brazilian procedure. Actually, it's more reasonable than the US logic sometimes…

Why is the example that people point to always terrorism or war? How does that relate to a plane crash?

Does the fact that you think the US is wrong on Gitmo or other matters make what Brazil is doing okay?

What if the pilots were not American? If they were from Switzerland, would you still be able to justfy what Brazil is doing without being able to point to what the US does or does not do?

FreeJoe&Jan
3rd Dec 2006, 06:06
Even if Brazil has an extradition treaty with the USA, do you really think that the arrogant US governement will hand them back := It would even not extradite their war criminals...but on the other hand detain illegally people in Gitmo in breach of Geneva Conventions. What an example for a "FREE AND DEMOCRATIC" first world country"

At least Brazil do have laws :D

And what laws are those?

green granite
3rd Dec 2006, 07:18
Why is the example that people point to always terrorism or war? How does that relate to a plane crash?

Ok what about the 2 British Bankers that are going to be detained for 2 years in the states until their trial can start, perhaps they should be allowed home for Christmas. After all they can allways be extradited again can't they.:ugh::ugh:

agusaleale
3rd Dec 2006, 08:55
I said once, I say again. They are suspects of involvement in a plane crash.

The Brazilian Code of Aeronautics, do not allow any prosecutor to use a preliminary (or final) report of a plane crash to charge anyone, and do not allow that pilots be charged of murderer in a plane crash.

They had they passports held by justice until the CENIPA investigators and to the prosecutor have the information needed to understand what happened in 09/29/2006. Or this is what the media says.


They can move around the country, they can go anywhere in Brazil, but cannot leave before they have accomplished the right of defend themselves.


Now lets see the things in another scope.
If a small business jet get involved with the crash of an US (we can change to UK, France...) aircraft, in US (we can change to UK, France...) soil, and the pilots of the business jet are from another country. Do you really think that if they (authorities) have suspect of something went wrong, and the crew can help in the crash investigation, that they can go away and never comeback?
I mean, do you really think that a Judge will let this happen? Would YOU let this happen?

I´d like to pose you a question.
When a car accident happens in Brasil, and there are one or more deaths, or simply somebody injured, and for sure there is a criminal investigation. Do you know if the criminal justice seizes the passports of both drivers and don´t let them get out of Brasil?
I bet they are free to leave Brasil.
What if one of the drivers was american?

Concerning the authorities of USA, of course they are not going to say anything politically wrong, as Brasil is a sovereign nation. They have more opportunities to express what they want in many ways, not publicly.

A310driver
3rd Dec 2006, 09:10
I beg your indulgence as I am not familiar with the persons/crime to which you refer;it apparently is not big news here. The big difference, however, based on your charaterization of the situation, is that a violation of our criminal laws has taken place and there is good reason to believe that said persons are the perpretators of that crime( they have been charged/indicted and must stand trial as determined by a judge in preliminary hearings/examinations), and, further, that the penalty for said crime is great enough to require posting of a large bond to assure that the persons will show up for trial and/or that there is a risk of flight to avoid prosecution. Passports of US citizens are routinely taken away by judges under such circumstances where risk of flight is alleged by the prosecution and concurred with by the judge. Otherwise, a person may only be held by police for hours unless the above conditions can be met.

In the Brazil case, what is the crime (cite the CRIMINAL LAW that has been violated ) and what is the evidence that these pilots violated it?

mm_flynn
3rd Dec 2006, 10:42
I beg your indulgence as I am not familiar with the persons/crime to which you refer

A310,

There are a range of financial activities that are characterised as fraud in the US that are not apparently illegal in the UK. In the particular case referenced three British Bankers have been indicted in the US on Enron related fraud charges. The US has applied for extradition of these men, which has been granted, and they are in the US awaiting trial.

The essence of your point is correct. In the US it would be normal to limit the movement of someone indicted of a crime. That is, where a Grand Jury or judge has determined that there is Probable Cause that the person in question has committed a crime.

Clearly there are other reasons why the investigators of an accident may wish someone to temporarily limit movements or provide contact details to respond to questions, however, based on press reports - the accident investigators in Brazil don't appear to desire the Legacy pilots to restrict their movements.

It appears that it is the criminal prosecution system holding them- and as such your points of 'what is the crime?' and is there any 'probable cause re Legacy pilots' are very good questions.

I know nothing of Brazilian law and they may well be empowered to restrict movement of people on the basis of suspicion. I believe the US is unusual in not being able to hold people without charge for any significant amount of time (when subject to constitutional rule - non-citizens overseas as recent events have shown are not afforded any protection by the US constitution)

barit1
3rd Dec 2006, 12:47
On the other hand - within the US, if an interstate crime is committed by telephone (e.g.), even if the suspect was never in the state where the victim is located, extradition may be employed to bring the suspect to the victim's state for prosecution.

A310driver
3rd Dec 2006, 13:00
Roger that.............AFTER being charged with a crime in the first state and an extradition hearing is held in the second in which all of the processes I mentioned have addressed..ie, crime, probable cause, etc. unless, of course ,the accused "waives extradition" in which case he agrees to be taken to the state where charged (a common occurrence).

A310driver
3rd Dec 2006, 13:17
I think the operative words/concept are CHARGED with a CRIME. With regard to extradition , I imagine (but do not know) that the UK has a crime or two that do not measure-up as such in the US and that the extradition agreement between the sovereigns would permit the extradation of a UK citizen under similar circumstances.

mm_flynn
3rd Dec 2006, 14:31
I think the operative words/concept are CHARGED with a CRIME. With regard to extradition , I imagine (but do not know) that the UK has a crime or two that do not measure-up as such in the US and that the extradition agreement between the sovereigns would permit the extradation of a UK citizen under similar circumstances.

For clarity, I was trying to provide the basic facts around the case that Green Granite referred to. It is a red herring with regard to the Legacy crew as you and so many others have pointed out - the Legacy crew to our knowledge has not been charged with any crime, whereas the Bankers are charged with a crime. Hence, the irrelevance of the point with regard to this thread.

caos
3rd Dec 2006, 16:26
Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters and Extradition

http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/bra/index.html

BrazilianDiplomat
3rd Dec 2006, 21:35
If the pilots are US nationals, they won't be able to be extradicted, period. One doesn't need to read the bilateral treaty (which I am sure exists) to know it. Such treaties must always provide for reciprocity: the rules for Brazil-US extradiction must be the same as the other way around.
Well, Brazilian constitution expressely forbids the extradiction of a born Brazilian. Therefore, no international treaties Brazil has allow for other countries to extradict their nationals to us.

By the way, I personally think the 2 pilotos should be released. I am just settling this international law issue.

FreeJoe&Jan
3rd Dec 2006, 23:29
I think the operative words/concept are CHARGED with a CRIME. With regard to extradition, . . .

Precisely. Examples in other countries that involve charged crimes, evidence of crimes, indictments, etc., don't seem to apply to me. No one has even pointed to evidence that they (or anyone) committed a crime and they have not been charged with one.

From outward appearances, what has happened is that two foreigners that might not be able to be extradicted have been held for a couple of months to give the police time to look around and see if maybe there was a crime and maybe they were involved so that then maybe they can accuse them of a crime and see if maybe charges can be filed. I have a very hard time believing that is legal in Brazil.

FreeJoe&Jan
3rd Dec 2006, 23:34
It’s fine calling Brazil the backwater 3rd world country or typical third world country but we cannot talk about Guantanamo, Iraq…
Other opinions should be respected (people and countries).

I don't think that it is correct to call Brazil names. I just don't think that Guantanamo and Iraq have anything to do with this.

It isn't about the USA versus Brazil. The nationality of the pilots should not matter.

It is about what is legal in Brazil, whether the pilots are American or from any other country. Pointing to Guantanamo, Iraq or anything else is just shifting the focus away from the real issue.

E1405b
4th Dec 2006, 00:59
FreeJoe&Jan
Yes, you are correct and I agree with you.

But I didn’t start this game. So, we should respect Brazil and Brazilians…Down there the media is working, the justice is working and I haven’t heard the pilots are being mistreated or abused. Actually, if I know Rio no one there cares about them (or even remembers them).

Anyway, I’m pretty sure in two years we all will look back to this and see that everything that has been done by the Brazilian Justice and the Brazilian Government is pretty much reasonable. They are only trying to carry out their responsibilities since many things are not clear so far (for example why the Legacy transponder stopped working…). In such situation the best is being conservative and many Brazilians have already explained how Justice works there.

The Pilots will be flying back home soon.

ironbutt57
4th Dec 2006, 03:39
Yes many things are not yet so clear, and until they are, the spectre of criminal proceedings should not have been raised..I think this is the problem many have with the proceedings so far...how can one mention criminal proceedings when all the facts are not clear...in fact the Brazilian govt has NOT been reasonable or responsible in this aspect at all it has been very irresponsible behaviour on their part..:=

E1405b
4th Dec 2006, 04:21
The Brazilian Government didn’t hold their passports. The Brazilian Justice did it. The pilots are still there because the Brazilian Justice wants them there. So, there is no such Governmental behavior. Brazilian Justice and Brazilian Government are independent powers. Many Brazilians have already reported in previous posts how the Brazilian Justice works.

ironbutt57
4th Dec 2006, 06:13
Not concerning the passports being held as much as the comments by investigating authorities as to criminal investigations before the fdr/cvr data was even available..surely Brazilian "justice" is an arm of the government in some way...so it appears the two were guilty until the facts prove them innocent..*

FlyingRabbit
4th Dec 2006, 10:13
..surely Brazilian "justice" is an arm of the government in some way....*

I fail to see how that can be true, ironbutt57. Is that how it works in your country?

ironbutt57
4th Dec 2006, 10:36
I would suspect that in the case of an aviation accident, there would be some completion of the accident investigation, before rumblings of possible criminal charges were announced in the press...is the justice department in Brazil a private sector organization?? Or are they on the government payroll??

possel
4th Dec 2006, 11:24
If the pilots are US nationals, they won't be able to be extradicted, period. One doesn't need to read the bilateral treaty (which I am sure exists) to know it. Such treaties must always provide for reciprocity: the rules for Brazil-US extradiction must be the same as the other way around.
Well, Brazilian constitution expressely forbids the extradiction of a born Brazilian. Therefore, no international treaties Brazil has allow for other countries to extradict their nationals to us.

By the way, I personally think the 2 pilotos should be released. I am just settling this international law issue.

Not universally true, I am afraid. For "must" above, read "should". The UK now allows US to extradite UK citizens without even giving due cause, but of course the US doesn't allow the same in reverse.

So EXACTLY what does the US-Brazil treaty say?

alemaobaiano
4th Dec 2006, 11:31
Ironbutt57
The Brazilian Judiciary is one of the "tres poderes" of the Brazilian system of government, the others being the Executive and Legislative, all part of government but all independent in their actions. Much like it is in the USA and Europe.

Neither the executive nor legislative branches can undo a judicial decision without going through the legal system themselves. That way we can avoid having dictatorships, no one branch of government has total power.

Opening a criminal case is not the same as convicting somebody, and if they had waited until the investigation had been completed the two pilots would have had to stay even longer. I believe that this is also the case in several European countries, a fatal accident is subject to a criminal investigation, and charges may be brought depending on the outcome of the accident investigation.

As the two pilots haven't been charged with anything yet, how can they be guilty? As has been pointed out, extradition would be practically impossible should any criminal case be brought later and the two pilots had left the country. The State Department accepts that this is how the system works here, and in other countries too, and that Brazil should follow it's procedures in this case. The system is working, let it work.

caos
4th Dec 2006, 12:24
So EXACTLY what does the US-Brazil treaty say?

Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters
http://www.oas.org/JURIDICO/MLA/en/bra/index.html

ironbutt57
4th Dec 2006, 12:27
I am aware of the difference between opening a case, and a conviction, just seems a bit hasty on their part..anyway lets just see what evolves...

Danny
4th Dec 2006, 12:56
Amateur lawyers who wish to discuss their theories about how the legal situation with regards to the Legacy crew are free to carry on doing so in this thread which will be relegated to the Amateur Lawyers Association Forum, more commonly referred to as 'Jet Blast'. :ugh:

barit1
4th Dec 2006, 13:22
The Brazilian Government didn’t hold their passports. The Brazilian Justice did it. The pilots are still there because the Brazilian Justice wants them there. So, there is no such Governmental behavior. Brazilian Justice and Brazilian Government are independent powers. Many Brazilians have already reported in previous posts how the Brazilian Justice works.

Oh, just like Sharia, I suppose. :rolleyes:

More to the point, Brazilian Justice exists to enforce Brazilian laws, doesn't it?

And who makes Brazilian laws, and what laws have been broken, and by whom?

TheSailor
4th Dec 2006, 13:55
Hello,

Just for remind at the US fellows.....
Thank's to the "Patriot Act" ..any american or other ppl's in USA...is able to be arrested immediately...and all his properties seized.... scrutined...and this with no possibility of appeal...of anykind....
The FBI or any other law dept have just to be suspicious about a "terrorist" activity.....
I name it.."a real refrein of the liberty to move".....
It's a return to the middle age..... just for jerking knees reasons after few uncontrolables events in the USA....
I think Brazilians laws are sweet when I compare with the USA or other few more nasty countries..... :)

Regards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v509/Bebermaur/th_bye.gif

tony draper
4th Dec 2006, 14:16
Hmmm,didn't think the FBI was around in the middle ages,nor the USA for that matter.
:uhoh:

Tricky Woo
4th Dec 2006, 14:17
Welcome to Jet Blast hell.... aha ha hah hah ha haaaah!!!

TW

rallymania
4th Dec 2006, 15:01
but on the other hand detain illegally people in Gitmo in breach of Geneva Conventions.


have america actually signed the geneva convention?
i seem to remember reading somewhere that haven't

(i'm not condoning their behaviour BTW)

piombo
5th Dec 2006, 14:54
Even if Brazil has an extradition treaty with the USA, do you really think that the arrogant US governement will hand them back := It would even not extradite their war criminals...but on the other hand detain illegally people in Gitmo in breach of Geneva Conventions. What an example for a "FREE AND DEMOCRATIC" first world country"
At least Brazil do have laws :D
Once there was an accident in Italy, caused by a pilot seriously flying a Prawler in a flight other than training. While trying to pass under a cable car at 500 kts, he ripped the cables with his tail and 22 people inside the cable car plunged to death. Now, the so called pilot was flying under any heights stated in the charts for the military in the area, proved even by a video of the flight, and he was allowed to go home and be judged there, in US I mean. Guess what? He was acquitted of any wrong doing. THAT IS JUSTICE. Got a slap in the hand and then retired. The victims? RIP.
Saluti

barit1
5th Dec 2006, 19:45
I don't see any evidence of a parallel between the USN - ummm - accident and the present case, do you?

MSP Aviation
5th Dec 2006, 22:40
Hello,

Just for remind at the US fellows.....
Thank's to the "Patriot Act" ..any american or other ppl's in USA...is able to be arrested immediately...and all his properties seized.... scrutined...and this with no possibility of appeal...of anykind....
The FBI or any other law dept have just to be suspicious about a "terrorist" activity.....
I name it.."a real refrein of the liberty to move".....
It's a return to the middle age..... just for jerking knees reasons after few uncontrolables events in the USA....
I think Brazilians laws are sweet when I compare with the USA or other few more nasty countries..... :)

Regards. http://photobucket.com/albums/v509/Bebermaur/th_bye.gif

no no no no no.
you're not being "arrested," you're being "detained." that's why they can do it in the first place. and there is "possibility of appeal," you're just never gonna get one. and i don't support the patriot act, but at least actions taken under it are completely seperate from our traditional legal system (bad thing for "terrorists" or innocent people of the "wrong" religion who browse the "wrong" websites, good thing for those tried under our pretty good legal system).

and just because one country does bad stuff doesn't mean another country's irresponsible actions are acceptable. if this had happened six years ago would you have said "i think Brazilian laws are sweet when compared to Afghanistan where women can be stoned for becoming pregnant."? of course not... there will always be something worse, but that doesn't make awful acts any less terrible.

Jerricho
5th Dec 2006, 22:44
Hey GlueBall,

Do you still think "those" pictures are for real???

Bwaaaahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa............Even without the video that's posted.....bwaaaahaaaaa..........

terryJones
5th Dec 2006, 23:32
BRAZIL ALLOWING U.S. PILOTS TO RETURN HOME
The two U.S. pilots who have been held in Rio de Janeiro since a fatal midair collision in September will be allowed to go home, a Brazilian court said today. The pilots -- Joseph Lepore and Jan Paladino, both of New York -- will have their passports returned to them and can leave the country in 72 hours, after being further debriefed by police, the court said. The two must agree to return to Brazil for any further inquiry and judicial action. "Restricting the freedom of movement for foreigners is not backed by the domestic legal system," the court's statement said, according to Reuters. Brazil is still investigating the crash, which was the worst in the country's history.
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/12_49b/leadnews/Brazil_Allowing_Pilots_To_Return_193920-1.html

E1405b
8th Dec 2006, 20:58
I cannot understand why Mr. Joe Sharkey, that seems to be a very intelligent man, keeps trying to hide many important points of this sad crash. I also cannot understand why he keeps trying to defame Brazil. Is there any political issue in his “point of view”?

His threads are very impressing, very tendentious. The last one he omitted the part of the Federal Police’s note, where the Federal Police explains the reason pilots have been charged. Also, when I compare what he is saying (http://joesharkeyat.********.com/) with many others sources I think he is trying to make our minds. It seems he is being advised by the pilot’s lawyers to build up a defense thesis. Or maybe they are working together…

Anyway, I don’t wanna blame media but I really disgust this is kind of stuff.

fleigle
9th Dec 2006, 00:06
E1405b
Maybe he is just disgusted with the the process as it has moved along, after all, he was actually on the Legacy !!!