View Full Version : Care in the community Killers

The AvgasDinosaur
3rd Dec 2006, 22:45
Dear All,
Found this on the BBC News website
What I find most disturbing is " Almost a third of these killings was by people who were assesed as low risk" What for :mad: sake was the assement on the other two thirds.
Be lucky

3rd Dec 2006, 23:00
It is worth bearing in mind that about 12 people a week are killed by people who aren't "mentally ill".

i.e. more than 90% of homicide victims are killed by people who are not "mentally ill".

Just to keep things in perspective.

4th Dec 2006, 01:58
As former assistant executioner Syd Dernley said, ten years after abolition. "35 people (10% of the total at the time) have been killed by convicted murderers released after serving their time. None of my clients have ever re-offended."

4th Dec 2006, 07:51
And the sad fact is that some of his clients may not even have offended in the first place.

Yet they were killed anyway. For nothing.

4th Dec 2006, 08:53
Three out of 26 were considered doubtful at one time. Timothy Evans, Ruth Ellis and James Hanratty.
1. Ruth Ellis acquired the gun to kill her lover, showed it to her roommate and clearly stated her intention to kill him immediately prior to leaving the house and so, sympathy or not, she was guilty of premeditated murder as charged.
2. Evans was pardoned for the murder of his baby daughter, but the same court that pardoned him also determined that, although he wasn't charged with her murder, he did kill his wife Beryl.
3. Hanratty was recently proven guilty through DNA evidence.

The other 23 were definitely guilty. Incidentally, during the time that Pierrepoint and Dernley were in office, only about one in twelve death sentences were carried out. The rest were commuted to life imprisonment and that is to what Mr. Dernley was referring. People who had been condemned to death subsequently lserved their time and killed again after they were released. Incidentally, the fee for an execution was 5 guineas and it was taxable. They did roughly one a month, at a time when the average wage was around 14 pounds a week.

I'm opposed to the death penalty myself, but not out of mercy. Myra Hyndley convinced me that its far better to keep them locked up for life - that is until they die in prison. Checking out permanently ten seconds after the executioner opens the cell door is too easy.

4th Dec 2006, 09:30
Who are these 26?

Do they include Derek Bentley?

4th Dec 2006, 10:00
Checking out permanently ten seconds after the executioner opens the cell door is too easy.
Agreed. That's my main opposition to the death penalty (apart from the way it also claims the lives of some innocent people). The families of the victims get a life sentence and the perpetrators should receive no less. Certainly they should not be given the quick release of sudden death.

4th Dec 2006, 10:01
The original article concerns the mentally ill, not cold blooded killers. Such individuals were incarcerated for indefinite periods till cured, not sentenced to jail terms or hung.

If you want to blame anything, blame the closure of so many secure facilities and the increase in "care in the community" for so many for whom it is unsuitable.

Unless, of course, you are proposing the disposal of the mentally ill.

tony draper
4th Dec 2006, 10:33
Stop worrying people don't you realise? "lessons will be learned"

Dea Certe
4th Dec 2006, 11:12
When Reagan was governor of California, many State Hospitals for the Mentally ill were closed and the inmates released onto the streets. Very sad to see these poor folks wandering around, lost in delusion.

Once I called the police as a woman, obviously caught up in a obsessive-compulsive delusion was out in the middle of the street, doing some odd bit of ritual. A car came around the corner and very nearly hit her. She didn't seem to notice but I could see the driver was quite upset.

The police told me there was nothing they could do as she had the right to be out in the road, as she not posing a threat to herself or others! Only after I vigorously insisted, they sent a car out and shooed her the sidewalk. She continued her ritual down the sidewalk. Poor thing.

It's really a tricky issue. Some mental illness is very hard to treat. The drugs cause terrible side effects and don't always quell the delusions.

A school mate of mine had a brother who was psychotic. He frequently threated the family with violence. The whole family had padlocks on their bedroom doors as they feared him (He was 17 years old) One night, he got really disturbed and chased the father down the street with a butcher's knife. The police arrived in time to catch him in the act and he was hospitalized.

He's been in and out of institutions for 40 years now. He's set fires, attacked strangers and hurt himself. Amazingly, no one has been killed. Last I heard, he was in a half-way house where his meds were carefully supervised. Obviously unable to work, he's been on Government aid.

Sadly, it seems to always boil down to money. Hospitals and medicines are expensive. Prognosis isn't always exact. It's a nightmare for the patient, for the family and the community.


5th Dec 2006, 01:18
When Reagan was governor of California, many State Hospitals for the Mentally ill were closed and the inmates released onto the streets. Very sad to see these poor folks wandering around, lost in delusion.
Ronald Reagan ended his own days suffering from dementia - the result of Alzheimers in his case. Fortunately for him, his family had the means to take proper care of him. Statistically, for every five of we PPRuNers posting here, one of us will end our days suffering from dementia. But dementia sufferers aren't generally responsible for murdering folks.

Those who are likely to do such things are identifiable, can be and are diagnosed and can be treated. They should not - for their own sake as well as others - be subject to "care in the community" unless they are actually being cared for. The problem is that in reality, "care in the community" doesn't exist. Once out of the door, the mentally ill are too often on their own - just as Dea Certe describes.