Ground crew to Aircrew

[ashgrant]

Hello,
I have just passed out from my trade training at cosford and been posted to raf lyneham as a AMM. Thing is i have always wanted to fly and to be a RAF pilot form a very young age, i would like some help/advice on how i can go about trying to achieve my goal (as im already in the Raf). Thank you for your time

[raytofclimb]

Work hard, get good reports and get your Boss on your side. You'll need to be recommended as commissionable first.

In the mean time, stand by for all the t*$$ers and REMFs on this site to open you up for not using capital 'I's in your post.

Good luck.

Ray

[ukcds]

Go to the education centre, there are leadership courses run throughout the year for perons just like yourself. Speak to all Flying Sqns as they have people whos secondary duties are to answer your questions and give you an incite into Aircrew life. Hope this helps good luck.
UKCDS

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Most stations also have a commissioning workshop for airmen considering applying - a starting POC for this would be the Trg/Education centre (I think).

As above, I'd also recommend spending some time with sqn aircrew to get a feel and understanding of their environment; you should soon get an idea of whether you would fit in!

Cheers and good luck

SBG

[Pontius Navigator]

Why are you where you are now then if you wanted pilot?

Have you the necessary academics? At your age there is no difference between civilian and airman. Have you been to the AFCO and got the gen from them?

While good reports over time will be necessary there is no need to build up your street cred before applying. As previously stated, a commissioning club is a good step.

There are many things you can do and if you are suitable there is no advantage in delaying.

[ashgrant]

Thank you for all the comments! The reason I did not go for it in the first place is i left college early due to family issues(parents devorce) and did not have time to finish my a-levels, im going to finish them this year form a open college. I want to finish them before I apply for the position and I feel the valuable knowledge of my trade and the RAF will help towards becoming a pilot.Well i hope at least lol! Also does anyone know if there is a flying club at lyneham?

[airborne_artist]

See the Service Flying Clubs (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254357) thread. But yes, there is one listed.

[thing]

Hi Ash, good luck mate and also be prepared for some lip from your fellow tradesmen, most will be supportive but some will be cantankerous. Most probably because they haven't got the dog**** to get of their arses and do it themselves.

There's a big difference in attitude too between applicants from civvy street and serving airmen. You have to jump through more hoops as an airman (I'm going back to my time in the RAF) and by the time you get to OASC it can seem a bit daunting. I applied for a commission as an Education Officer when I was in, and it was a question of suitability by my OC, an interview with OC Admin, then an interview with the Staish, all of which you can trip up on. There's also the endless reading of current affairs, the keep fit routine, and all the other stuff that goes with it. Although my wife found herself invited to Coffee mornings at OC Admin's house all of a sudden.......

An applicant from civvy street goes to the CIO, has an interview then if succesful goes to OASC with not many preconceptions. Anyway, I failed the 'take three drums and a piece of rope and get these six men across the shark infested custard bit' at Biggin Hill. 'Not dynamic enough', even though I finished the task in half the allotted time....:) Bit like climbing Everest and turning back 10 feet from the top. But there you go.

Keep bright eyed and bushy tailled, keep your eye on the target and get as much help and advice as you can. The most important thing is to keep trying, get your head down and go for it.

By the way, I used to be an Avionics instructor at Cosford, did you do any gliding there? (Assuming there's still a gliding club, or has that gone with the cuts?) That would look good on your CV. I learned to fly there, one of the best sports you could do if you're interested in aircrew.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ashgrant, good answers so far.

Yes, get the A-levels. Then as you have no hope of getting Cpl in a realistic time make sure you are tops at your job.

I have had several SACs that have been ready for commissioning long before they would have made Cpl.

Look for a secondary duty you could help with - youth club, a sport or whatever as well. Anything that helps demonstrate leadership potential and teamwork.

[ashgrant]

Very constructive words "thing" thank you for the support. Im only doing it for the love of flying and the RAF offers the best flying traning in the world! I will give it my best and see how i get on.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Ash,

While you may be 'doing it for the love of flying', do remember that you will have to convince OASC and, probably more importantly, your chain of command that you have what it takes to become an officer. If you can't persuade them that you have the qualities to gain a commission then you will not persuade them to let you become a pilot.

Good luck, anyway.

Duncs:ok:

[airborne_artist]

If you can't persuade them that you have the qualities to gain a commission then you will not persuade them to let you become a pilot.

At which point you put in for a transfer to the AAC, where your skills with Powerpoint, Service writing and a knife and fork will not affect your chances of poling the a/c.

[Pontius Navigator]

At which point you put in for a transfer to the AAC, where your skills . . . will not affect your chances . . .

Looks like my finance manager has a point. Army officers all failed OASC selection :}

[TheWizard]

At which point you put in for a transfer to the AAC, where your skills with Powerpoint, Service writing and a knife and fork will not affect your chances of poling the a/c.

Don't listen to him, the Army have now got round to teaching their people to use a knife and fork and some of them can write as well:}

[Talking Radalt]

The advice about needing to be recommended by your boss and how servicemen have more hoops to jump through than their civvy counterparts is outdated as it was (quite rightly) deemed a little ridiculous that serving airmen had to prove themselves even more worthy than some long haired scrote from art college.
That said, having your boss's full support (which equates to a recommendation I guess!) won't do any harm.

[Two's in]

Well, who knew the Army let absolute thickoes pole around in their aircraft? Up until I read AA's and PN's post, I was convinced I must have been quite bright. Thank you for helping me and my fellow Army aviators overcome that tragic misconception. We are forever in your debt. Or answer (B)...

[Pontius Navigator]

Two's In - that came from someone who works in the Army.




tin hat on, standing by ............

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

Ash,
Have some advice from a techie who never tried to make the switch (blind as a bat):
1) Don't hang around. The longer you are a groundcrew, the bigger the them/us divide becomes. I don't mean this in a bad way, but the t-bar chats and post work lifestyle are worlds apart. I know people who, after a few years as groundcrew with aspirations to fly, suddenly decide that "they wouldn't fit in". This is not always the case, I've met some guys that went on to be very good front-enders and were very happy.

2) If, in time, you get accepted remeber that you may be chopped in the early days of selection and might go back to your old post. So don't burn your bridges on the way out. A sooty on my last Sqn was accepted for Self Loading Freight and p*ssed a lot of people off with his "I'm better than you" and "I don't need to do that, I'll be in the mess soon" comments. Imagine the joy when his former colleagues found out that he'd been chopped and was coming back. It got so bad he PVR'd.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

TLS

[oldbeefer]

I had a Cpl fitter in'85 who wanted to go the aircrew route. I recommended him, he worked hard to get the necessary qualifications. I next met him when he was going thorugh heli pilot training at Shawbury. Met him later when doing his QHI course and, again, later when he became Boss of CFS(H). The moral? Anything is possible if you have the aptitude and the enthusiasm.

[Bertie Thruster]

Hi Ash,

I suggest you keep your goal firmly focused in your imagination.

When asked, let your (commissioned) superiors know of your aspirations, why you haven't acheived them and what you are doing about it.

..............and don't give up, it can be done!


Regards, BT. OASC 1974((failed but passed the aptitude tests). Army private 1975. Army Commissioning board 1976 (failed). Army pilots course 1980. OASC 1984 (passed). Retired, Sqn Ldr 1997.

[airborne_artist]

When you get to Brize you could go over to 2267 (Brize Norton) Sqn ATC
in Building 901 (behind Gateway House) and offer your time as a Service helper. Would give you some good experience (you may even be ex-ATC) in teaching/leading, and it will go down well when you are describing your spare-time interests at OASC etc.

[Talking Radalt]

Would give you some good experience...in teaching/leading, and it will go down well when you are describing your spare-time interests at OASC etc.

...as will any involvement in planning/leading Station expeds etc.

[ARINC]

Make friends with the Sim techs...difficult I know ! then try and blag some sim time. I had many hours of fun in the sim at Cott. Vision not steely eyed killer enough, so I never got any further, had to continue working for a living.

Always used to p***s me off seeing aircrew wearing bins some of which were quite thick ! The bins that is Sir...not you.

Incidently I knew one sim tech who went on to become an F2 DP. He was a legend in the sim, quite amusing to see front seaters trying not to look to intersted as he put the thing through it's paces. AFDS failures, Engine failures etc etc...he knew the thing backwards.

[mustflywillfly]

Flew with an ex-stoker ( hairy arsed, beer guzzling, northern monkey Marine Engineering Mechanic in the RN) who ended up a qualified Harrier QFI.

It is always possible to make the "jump". Keep faith. If it doesn't work out get your PPL and fly for fun.

Good luck matey.

MFWF

[thing]

The advice about needing to be recommended by your boss and how servicemen have more hoops to jump through than their civvy counterparts is outdated as it was (quite rightly) deemed a little ridiculous that serving airmen had to prove themselves even more worthy than some long haired scrote from art college.
That said, having your boss's full support (which equates to a recommendation I guess!) won't do any harm.

Well thank God for that, it's not all changed for the worse then.