Qantas Solutions

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

One of the reasons Qantas is ripe for a takeover is the staff discontent that is often displayed on this forum. I am wondering what it would take for the staff and management to reconcile in some way? Is it too obvious ie J* or are there deeper problems? If this doesn't happen I fear the whole thing will go the way of AN and at that point it doesn't matter who we blame.

[Sunfish]

With the greatest of respect, it's not possible to "reconcile" either individually or as a group with a Board and management made up of Narcissists. The term "reconciliation" has no meaning to a narcissist except as a potential strategy to suck more of the life out of the individual.

Narcissists don't do empathy. They don't do morale. They cannot therefore imagine what the word "reconciliation" means. It has no meaning for them. You do the job, you get paid, thats all there is to it.

We might make up some nice sounding comforting phrases, parade some nice sentiments and hand out Mars Bars at cosy meetings if it will allow us to screw you some more in future, otherwise forget it.

When management says "Our staff are our most precious asset" and then treats them with disdain and contempt, you know you are dealing with narcissists.

Typical example: God help the poor Tulla maintenance guys who have been told, after months of suspense, that they have missed the outsourcing/redundancy bullet this time, but that there is an ongoing review of Engineering and the gun will be reloaded and pointed at them again in twelve months time. Only a totally unfeeling narcissist would do this.

Not only that, its bad management practice. You either change your business quick and dirty, meaning secret planning for change, the issue of "don't come Monday" notices on Friday afternoon and totally change the structure Monday morning, or you do it "slow and clean" - to minimise fear and discomfort which means transparency, frequent consultation and communications with those likely to be affected, and the presentation of as many options to staff as possible, as early as possible.

The alternative as practiced by Qantas - "slow and dirty" is just plain stupid management, but of course it gives the greatest amount of emotional satisfaction to narcissists to do it this way, because they can demonstrate their power through the creation of fear and emotional pain through hints, rumors, lies, secret deals, apparently erratic decisionmaking, witholding approval, bullying by exclusion, and the whole panlopy of deliberate destabilising behaviours that narcissists uses for much, much, longer than either of the other methods.

Ansett cut 10% of its Engineeing workforce in the late 70's(?) through a voluntary redundancy with almost zero pain - except for a certain two managers who got rid of some people they were glad to see the back of, only to discover them rehired further North - with full continuity of employment and benefits and without giving back any cash!.

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

My point is, how do we fix it? There are managers in Qantas who see what's going on and don't agree with short term gains for long term pains. Surely there must be some way of initiating dialogue? With that dialogue being heard and respected. If we don't, will it fall in a heap?, is it that far beyond anyone's control? If you sacked the board would you get another one that did the same things?

[hannibal lector]

The only reconciliation from the current management is you will do it my way. The current head of ACS engineering is warm and fuzzy but in reality he is just a dictator. He is very happy to form committees to do so called bargaining but the outcome is already decided and these committees only serve to bring legitamicy to it. The common phrase of ' Your gruop decided this ' not me so it's going top happen. Look what has happened to perth. It was once the most efficient base in Oz now it is a nothing more than an angry buch of engineers fighting for sensibility. This is new management at its finest, still a f:mad: up

[aircraft]

Sunfish,

You appear to be far removed from the realities of life. By labelling the QF management "narcissist" you convey the impression you are a raving looney.

The QF management are just doing their job - and doing it very well I would suggest, given how gently (relatively speaking) the turnaround process is proceeding. Sure, there are a few little jolts here and there but the group continues to be profitable.

Can you say how you would do things better (and be realistic)?

[Keg]

ROFLMAO. The troll returns. I was just thinking the other day that it was nice that he hadn't bothered for a while.

Sunfish knows a lot more about QF than you aircraft. Working inside the organisation he talks about I can say with confidence that his comments ring pretty true from what I've seen.

Back in your hole wind up merchant! :E

[podbreak]

One of the reasons Qantas is ripe for a takeover is the staff discontent that is often displayed on this forum. I am wondering what it would take for the staff and management to reconcile in some way? Is it too obvious ie J* or are there deeper problems? If this doesn't happen I fear the whole thing will go the way of AN and at that point it doesn't matter who we blame.

Firstly I reckon Mac bank would do a better job than Air NZ did with AN. Secondly the problems run deeper than J*. Agent Orange is a symptom of the problem. Management culture at the highest level of Q appears to be cut-throat. Company morale should be more important than ruthless cost-cutting. Only so much blood can be spilt. Employees fear their job security, conditions and their future in general. Fear is possibly the worst thing for motivation, subsequently adversly affecting productivity. The whole 'engagement' issue is just another symptom. If theres insecurity and bugger all carrer progression, how motivated can one possibly be to do the company proud?

How to fix it? Try cutting the doom and gloom. Give the employees incentives to be more productive. Make it clear employees are valued. Take a pay cut at the highest level before you send one more employee home or offshore. That, for a start, will ease the pain.

aircraft, when you properly understand the problem and the company, only then should you comment.

[assasin8]

Too true... Bit hard to take all the crap that's going on at the moment, while seeing upper management with their snouts well and truely in the trough !!!

Fellow employees losing positions, jobs going offshore, salary freezes/pay cuts ! Meanwhile, GD's on a BASE salary of 5 mil. and getting bigger ! He's laughing all the way to the bank... And this financial year is going to be even bigger !

Assuming our lowest paid worker is on say $ 50 000 (about the national average), then how the hell do the board justify 5 000 000 plus, plus, plus for GD, etc etc etc !!!

That's right, they need to pay that to get the "talent"... So what's that say about all the other, equally hard working QF employees, in whatever position they hold ???

NOT HAPPY JAN !!!:*

[Ultralights]

having been in the sights of the management gun, and working for 11 yrs in that hell hole, i can tell you, calling them "narcissist's" is almost a compliment.

I left in 2001, even back then, morale was non existent and management were hell bent of bleeding even the concrete dry, i still cant believe it still goes on today 5 yrs later, and i do feel sorry for those who cannot leave and the management they have to deal with....

as long as the current crop of leaders is running the company, there will be no chance of reconciliation between staff and management. sadly companies being run by such types and bean counters have a history of going the way of the dodo.

funnily enough now i am working for another company in the aviation game, though not the airline side of it, and if only Qf could learn something from the management of this company, then QF would be a great airline with very happy staff. the last meeting between staff and management was actually about "how do we attract more employees? and how do we keep the good ones here??" this was the question put to the staff from the highest level within the company... and a boss who openly invites all staff members to come and see him about anything, even gives you his phone number... now could you imagine Dixon or Ms Jackson doing that for the troops?

[Fliegenmong]

AhaH !!! AIRCRAFT,!!!, I've only read in on Friday afternoon, and it is good to have a laugh on a Friday afternoon. :hmm:

SUNFISH!, I'm confused, these Narcissists, I though you were talking about QF management, until I realised you were talking about the Federal Government, silly me.:rolleyes: :D :D :D

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

aircraft, you've finally gotten bored with www.bobthebuilder.com. Check out www.thomasthetankengine.com.

[aircraft]

Sunfish said:
When management says "Our staff are our most precious asset" and then treats them with disdain and contempt, you know you are dealing with narcissists.
I don't know what word you were trying for, but "narcissist" surely can't be it! My Oxford English Reference dictionary defines the word to mean:

"One that has excessive or erotic interest in oneself, one's physical features, etc".

Anybody else think the board and management are a bunch of narcissists?

Qantas, by necessity, are engaged in a cost cutting programme. There is bound to be some pain - this is the sort of thing that happens in the real world.

If Ansett had had the current Qantas management, I believe they would still be alive today.

[Simon Templar]

Your definition suits Dixon and a few others to a T.
Dixon sees himself as some sort of later life Bobby Darren
What he wears around his neighbourhood would embarrass the average 20 year old lothario.
The term also has wider broader usage in psychology parlance.
Sunfish I believe is couching his comments in these terms.

[Victor India]

Aircraft - here's the online Oxford definition of "green"
green
• adjective 1 of the colour between blue and yellow in the spectrum; coloured like grass. 2 covered with grass or other vegetation. 3 (Green) concerned with or supporting protection of the environment. 4 (of a plant or fruit) young or unripe. 5 in an untreated or original state; not cured, seasoned, fired, etc. 6 inexperienced or naive. 7 pale and sickly-looking.
• noun 1 green colour, pigment, or material. 2 a piece of common grassy land, especially in the centre of a village. 3 an area of smooth, very short grass immediately surrounding a hole on a golf course. 4 (greens) green vegetables. 5 (Green) a member or supporter of an environmentalist group or party.
• verb 1 make or become green. 2 make less harmful to the environment.

See adjective point 6.

:rolleyes:

[Australia2]

Aircraft,

You are most definately 22, give the X-box another 5 years and return when you have something worthwhile to say.

Oz2

[rescue 1]

The aviation industry is tough; evidenced by the number of Airlines in Chapter 11, and the mergers and acquisitions to survive, the number of players on the Tasman (NZ reducing capacity as the TNA has fallen through) etc. Granted, QF have announced a profit increase for this year, and that's a good thing. I am sure in hindsight the people of Ansett would have wished for more decisive action at their airline, and perhaps they would still be working for the "gold" star airline rather than by necessity getting out of a great industry or now work with "one star".

A similar question on morale was raised on another thread. No one on that thread nor this one has yet come up with a positive view to rebuilding the connectivity between shareholders-customers-staff; slanging off at the Board and the QF Management team is not a positive point of view, as the replacements would do the same! As I see QF from the outside: great staff travel, six weeks annual leave, good salaries, good hotels on overnights, discounts on rental cars and hotels when on leave (flash the ID), meals when at work, car parking or taxi provided to get you to work, great loss of licence insurance...downsides - uncertainty because of the continued restructure that is in place in QF. As Ultralights said, its been going on for 5 years. Uncertainty and fear in an organization causes morale issues. Remove that and you'll fix the problem.

QF need to buy new equipment to keep up with the competition and new jets are expensive. I'm afraid as a consumer the old B767 is just not doing it for me anymore on the longhaul: I like everyone else is looking for the latest gadgets and they are not being offered by QF. The gadgets are expensive to fund. Put the ticket price up to pay for it, and I'll go elsewhere. Virgin have the Satellite TV, while QF still have the blurry old main screen. So Pruner's how do you fix the problem?

I think we need to hear from the VirginBlue team on this subject, as VB seem to be doing a good job???

[DEFCON4]

Remove the the threats and intimidation
Introduce some round table conferencing
Become inclusive.
Brainstorm with your employees
Remove the contemptuos attitude
Take management noses out of the trough
Remove the hypocrisy...dont do as I do ..do as I say
Treat employees with respect.
Develope some empathy
Dixon enjoys all the perks mentioned plus a $6M salary
A lot of money for someone who is essentially a lobbyist

[DutchRoll]

Anybody else think the board and management are a bunch of narcissists?
Yes, I do. If we're talking definitions here, the very first line in the Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary under "narcissism" states "tendency to self-worship". This describes the CEO, Board, and much of QF higher level management precisely, so I'd suggest Sunfish has his definitions spot-on!:ok:
Qantas, by necessity, are engaged in a cost cutting programme. There is bound to be some pain - this is the sort of thing that happens in the real world.
This is true. However sending your employee morale to the bottom of the ocean and not really giving a **** about it has been shown on numerous occasions to be very bad for business in the medium to long term. This is Business Management 101, a course component where many senior QF managers seem to have skipped lectures.