Eastern Australia Airlines

[EAAFA]

How does everyone feel about the proposed EBA?

[mouse78]

After reading it through all i can say is Huh?:confused: A little more english and less blah blah would have been nice.

[CrashAxe]

I had a quick squiz through the draft...

Higher base rate is a good thing. I'm skeptical about the less restrictive work rules... but then hey, it's better than an AWA... isn't it? :ooh:

My friend is spitting chips about it though. He reckons it's' a crap deal and is really reluctant to vote "yes".

What do U think EAAFA and Mouse78?

[EAAFA]

The proposed EBA is exactly what I expected: a carbon copy of the existing Sunstate EBA.

The higher base salary is the only improvement, but considering all the losses (ie duty hour limitations, reduced rest periods, etc), it is not enough of an increase.

I don't know how the DTA rate was decided. It is very low.

Also, it isn't reasonable to take away roster requests considering we don't have a bidding system.

[Fingers Crossed]

I'm currently on active hold for Eastern. :)

A friend that I met at the interview and have kept in touch with was saying that she thought it was dreadful! The only good thing in the whole EBA was a little increase in base wage. However she said they would lose in allowances if the DTA were to be brought in and would virtually be flogged to death. She said that most people felt the same way.

When does it have to be voted on?

[crew_lj]

NG must be kidding herself thinking that we are going to accept Sunstate conditions.

Everything that we currently have in our EBA that's benificial to us has been taken away. If we are lucky, a reduced alternative has been offered in place.

What's the deal with the FAAA? They knew to hold on to the 7 hour rule and DIL's. Where's the negotiation with management to keep them? I guess it must be hard when the Union Rep and CC Mgr are buddies :mad: .

They took two important things away from us, and don't even give us anything back except some worthless DTA.

[pinklemonae]

Does EEA still offer 22,000 base for a first year FA?

[crew_lj]

No, from ground school to check to line its around $23,000 p/a. However, if your from another base and your overnighting in Sydney, you get the overnight allowances as well. Once your checked to line, that takes about 4 weeks from your first day at ground school, your salary goes up to around $30,000 + allowances.

[pinklemonae]

No, from ground school to check to line its around $23,000 p/a. However, if your from another base and your overnighting in Sydney, you get the overnight allowances as well. Once your checked to line, that takes about 4 weeks from your first day at ground school, your salary goes up to around $30,000 + allowances.

When I went for an interview in September at the panel I was given a sheet of paper (which I have kept) stating that a first year FA will recieve a base of 22,000.

Perhaps this is not the case anymore though..

[Fingers Crossed]

The base of 22000 is for the initial training period after training finishes and you're checked to line it goes up to 29000 +. I have the same sheet of paper and it's written on there.

[crew_lj]

'As I mentioned earlier....' the training rate of pay is around $23,000.

Have a look at the EASTERN AUSTRALIA AIRLINES PTY LIMITED FLIGHT ATTENDANTS ENTERPRISE AGREEMENT 2002 on www.wagenet.gov.au (http://www.wagenet.gov.au/)
Training until 'checked to line' is $22,874.

Training - applies until "checked to line"
Increment 1 - applies from when the trainee is "checked to line"
Increment 2 - after 6 months combined service as a trainee & at increment 1
Increment 3 - after 12 months service at increment 2
Increment 4 - after 12 months service at increment 3
Increment 5 - after 12 months service at increment 4
Increment 6 - after 12 months service at increment 5

Training - $22,874
Increment 1 - $29,812
Increment 2 - $30,499
Increment 3 - $31,221
Increment 4 - $31,943
Increment 5 - $32,663
Increment 6 - $33,414

[SallyInTheGalley]

I'm actually working for Sunstate under these work conditions.

We don't get "flogged" to death in Sunnies and we're certainly not doing 11 hrs , min rest, 11 hrs min rest etc. I don't think Management would want us doing that as there'd be a mutiny and lots of sickies! :eek:

I reckon you guys at Eastern should check out our rosters because it's not all as bad as you think. I still get time after my overnight to go and have my hair done or my legs waxed! I still get roster requests which allow me to duck over to see my boyfriend in Cairns on my three days that I've requested off.

This Brisbane girl still has her lifestyle - and a higher base Salary than the Eastern so make sure you're comparing with your friends up here in Sunnies - trust me, I've been here 2 years and it's OK. :) The other good thing about a higher base salary is that you get moe during A/L when you're not getting allowances. And then there's more super (for those who need to worry about that sort of stuff).

[qfdash8]

Is the new EBA supposed to be funny??? :} cos im not laughing and not many of the people i have spoken to are either.

In fact i feel insulted that management think that we are that stupid that we will vote yes.

The FAAA is as week as :mad: to. What were they doing during negotiations? Hiding under the table ......thats what.:D

I worked out my recent pay on the new EBA and i would have got $60-70 less in the fortnight.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOUR OF A PAY CUT SAY I !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has been an FAAA wake up call..........:=

[EAAFA]

Thanks for the contribution, Sally. I'm glad that Sunnies read this thread because it looks like sooner or later we'll all be one airline.
Don't get complacent though. If the EBA allows the company to push you harder, you can bet on it that it's only a matter of time until your rosters start to resemble ours at Eastern. That is 10+ hour days with minimum breaks followed by minimum rest.
Simple maths will tell you that we are far better off with the meal allowances we now have than the proposed DTA. A slightly higher base salary doesn't make much difference once the tax man has taken his cut.

[crew_lj]

I think when this proposed EBA gets voted down, and if we do take action, the FAAA needs to know exactly what we want to see in the new agreed EBA. Seriously, where did the FAAA get off allowing management to offer such bull$hit. We need to clearly stipulate what we want to see in our EBA. B.I needs to stand down aswell and someone with balls should be in place.

[qfdash8]

Lets get rid of the F.A.A.A and go to the T.W.U (transport workers union). A union that wont roll over and is not confused about who it needs to support.

Once this EBA is voted down we can legally do this.

SPREAD THE WORD. Vote NO to the EBA....vote NO to the F.A.A.A.......vote YES to a change to the T.W.U.

[m00ving_on]

i can't get my head around our reps being so out of touch with what we want that they didn't make this clear during negotiations. they claim that "we" said we wanted sunnies EBA. i heard people saying they want a similar BASE PAY not their EBA: NOT THE SAME THING!

NO to giving up the 7 hour rule!

NO to giving up meal allowances for a pathetic $3.83 DTA!

everyone i know who has added up how much they would be getting a fortnight with dta instead of meal allowances has figured out they'd be earning less. AND THATS INCLUDING THE HIGHER BASE PAY! and as EAAFA said, what about taxes???

5% PAY RISE MY a**e! a message to management: we aren't einsteins but we know how to use calculators!

[lfdlfp]

I hope everyone is doing what I did. I added up how much I would get in a year under the proposed eba. It comes to only about $3000 more. The things they want us to give up are worth much more than $3000.

[EAAFA]

I noticed that a number of crew have changed their progression preferences to include Perth since the EBA package was sent out. Interesting...

[Mr Seatback 2]

Did anyone attend the info sessions on the EBA held recently?

[crew_lj]

Yeh I went to the meeting. After speaking to both Sydney and Melbourne crew, everyones pissed off with Management and Managements friend from the FAAA for taking over 12months worth of negotiations when all they did was shove Sunstates f:mad:d up EBA through the photocopier and white out Sunstate and wrote Eastern.

Also they are saying in the meetings held in Sydney that Melbourne are voting yes and in Melbourne that Sydney are voting yes. That's also a heap of s:mad:t.

Everyones voting no.

Anyways I loved the Christmas card idea!:ok:

I'm also in favour of f:mad:king off the FAAA and bringing on the Transport Workers Union.

[CrashAxe]

Yeah, those Xmas cards were quite a stir. It appears they may have caused a bit of grief for the individual concerned.

I heard JG on the phone to someone wanting to sack the FA who distributed them... apparently the weren't authorised?! :eek: And given the recent sackings of FA's, who knows!!! :eek: :eek:

Ahh well. Voting starts tomorrow...... let's see how this EBA goes down.

Hey, what happens if it gets voted down? Do we go onto Indivedual Contracts?

Hahahah - TWU?! We're not Bus Driver's!!! Seesh, whoever is proposing that needs to get their head out of their a:mad:se. THat's the most ridiculous idea ever.

[crew_lj]

They went in to Melbourne's pigeon holes today. I don't think JG has any reason for dissmissing a FA for this reason either.

You mentioned there were other sackings, what reason did those FA's get fired for?

[CrashAxe]

Didn't two get punted for drugs?

Or is that rumur??????? Apparently the baggage handlers were talking about it.

[EAAFA]

Can anyone prove who distributed the "Christmas cards"? You can't sack someone on mere suspicion.

I heard that the two sackings were for turning up for duty drunk after a big night out at an overnight.

[qfdash8]

Hey CrashAxe, seems its your head that needs pulling out. T.W.U stands for Transport Workers Union. Last time i checked an aircraft was a form of transport.

If you are happy with our current union feel free to vote yes.

But all the FA's that are switched on will vote no and then look for another union.....

[Mr Seatback 2]

Ask yourself why no other FA group in this country are represented by the TWU.

[crew_lj]

How many other airline groups have their CC Mrg, FAAA Union Rep and FA union rep asslicking eachother?

[Mr Seatback 2]

"How many other airline groups have their CC Mrg, FAAA Union Rep and FA union rep asslicking eachother?"

Putting aside the obvious connotations of this quote, I don't think it's appropriate for you to start personally attacking your union rep.

Now...I don't know your union rep, nor do I pretend to be familiar with the issues that EA crews face. However...attacking one of your fellow crew, who does the delegate role in their own time, for no extra pay (and certainly no extra kudos) really isn't top form.

Do you have to like the new EBA? No.
Do you have to like what's happening in general within the QF Group? No.

How you vote, and what issues are of relevance to you, are entirely those of Eastern Crew. What you shouldn't be doing is turning on each other.

I've no doubt that your rep has tried to achieve the best outcome under difficult and arduous circumstances - especially with an EBA. Unless you're familiar with what it's like to negotiate with QF Group management during these difficult times, please think twice before attacking your colleagues. It doesn't help anyone.

[dashpash&grope]

Crew are saying that they are having feelings that they are being blackmailed and pushed towards a "yes" vote via management.

We are told that we can be put on the award wage if this Eba is voted down. I have already heard many crew say that they would resign if this were to happen. My question is, would EAA be able to cope with more than a handful of crew leaving at once? That is what we all should take into consideration before making our decision. Would EAA management shoot themselves in the foot by doing this?

Considering the ammount of blackmailing that seems to be going on, crew are still turning there nose up at the Eba that has been offered. I can't say I blame them either. What a slap in the face it has been to all of us who have worked hard for the company-especially in times where we have been under staffed and sick leave has been at high levels.

Management really should be ashamed. 3 weeks before Christmas and the already low moral of the crew goes to an even lower level. So low that even a dodgy diary for Christmas will not be able to help us out this year!

[Xavier O'nassis]

Years of reading but only now contributing to the EAA discussion thread!

I would like to think that our priority at the moment is the EBA, not a night out on the grog with some snog. I have been witness to many an EAA christmas party snog and personally I could not give a damn.

I give a damn about my EBA.I have listened to you all make judgement on the FAAA and our union reps, their relationships and lack of consultation with crew throughout the negotiations, you have whinged about progression and all the lucky souls who are in the position to change their preference of base, which I'm pretty sure you would all do in their positions. You have not attended information sessions on the EBA yet whinge that you are not given enough information. We put letters in pigeon holes telling people to vote NO with incorrect information on it. We continually voice our opinions having done no research at all. My god what an intelligent bunch we are.

GET REAL! have you people read a paper or watched the news lately? Have you researched the new IR laws? Don't you have friends on AWA's at jetstar? Instead of thinking only about yourself have a think about the collective group and the security an EBA gives us for the future. Pull your heads out of your ar$es research and secure your job. If not pull the plug and move on, just remember plenty of people want your job, even with the current wage!

Quote of the EBA forums " but I only want to work 120 hours a month, yet still get payed for 152"

[dashpash&grope]

Xavier O'nassis, your remarks are harsh, and uncalled for. It is unfair to say that we ( I am guessing you are talking about EAA FA's) have not done research in regards to the negotiations. You have no way of knowing who on this forum has or has not been to meetings to gather more information about the EBA. Many of the crew are well informed about what is about to take place, so to say "pull the plug and move on" is not a fair statement. Some of us like our jobs, but when we are loosing things that we deserve ( as hard working employee's) enough is enough!

[EAAFA]

Xavier, unfortunately you are right about certain issues however what bothers me is that the tone of your argument echoes that of the FAAA. That is, we're up against a tough fight so lets just give in without one.

Most people I've spoken to feel the same disappointment as I do about the way the FAAA has handled this. We pay them a lot of money every year and when we really need them it seems as if they forget whom they represent.

[m00ving_on]

X O, your rambling "contribution" to this discussion is just a regurgitation of the letter we got from dh.

1 it is a fact that our union reps have not kept us in the loop. how often did we get updates during the long negotiations? i asked a number of times and didn't get any info

2 if the company and the union are able to recommend how we should vote then a group of employees should have the right to make a recommendation too

3 if the company wants to pay us for the actual hours we work then they should offer a decent hourly rate

4 i did go to the meetings and all i got from the union was scaremongering on the company's behalf. what is the point of a meeting where the person who tells you to vote YES because she doesn't know what will happen if we vote NO

5 the union claims that we asked for sunnies eba: who, when, how many? i didn't and don't know anyone who did

i could go on about the other points you made but i can't be bothered. i'm sick of people like you thinking you're smarter than the rest of us when in fact you vote based on fear. you should vote based on what you think of the eba on offer.

AND NOW A NOTE ABOUT THE UNION NIO: what do people think are the odds of her jumping ship any time soon and getting a job with the qf group? should we start a tipping competition? she's delivered everything they wanted on a silver platter so i can see her becoming a turncoat like her mate at qflink

[lfdlfp]

I have an alternative to the TWU idea. We should demand DM's resignation.
She has no business representing us. Not because of her relationship with the CC manager but because she is incompetent.

What kind of idiot schedules Q & A meetings only to tell us "you should vote yes because I don't know what will happen if you vote no". Has she heard of doing research BEFORE a meeting? Or how about telling us to vote Labour in the next election? If Labour wins the next election we will NEVER get back what we will lose if we vote yes to the Sunstate EBA.

If QF want us on the same EBA they should do what they did with Southern. Get Sunstate to take over Eastern and transfer all CC to QF short haul (except for all the morons who voted YES on the EBA):D

[GalleyHag]

I am sorry but you lot need to grow up and fast.

You are a bunch of wimps attacking a highly respected, union official because you didnt get what you wanted and she cant give you an indication of what will happen if you vote no. How the hell is she suppose to know is beyond me.

EAA crew want everything and always feel so hard done by I know I use to be one. This current discussion happens everytime an EBA comes up and its always the FAAA fault.

You want more $$ but no loss of conditions, what planet are you living on.

Act like mature adults instead of a bunch of pre-school kids and the company may take notice of you.

[dashpash&grope]

Galleyhag, you are quick to judge all your ex collegues. Many things at EAA have changed in the short time that you have progressed over. You may wish to re think what you just posted.

Your ex collegues should be able to inform you just how different it is now.

[TightSlot]

Yet another post deleted today because of abuse of another member. This thread is starting to become a problem!

Don't make personal comments - play the ball not the player!

[EAAFA]

To all the people who post personal attacks on others, please think twice before clicking on the "submit reply" button as this discussion is too important to be closed off by the moderators.

GalleyHag, it's insulting enough for you to interfere in a discussion which has nothing to do with you without also insulting us verbally. I'm sure you weren't present at the meetings so you cannot possibly know how this "highly respected union official" conducted herself.

You also wrote:

"You want more $$ but no loss of conditions, what planet are you living on."

The fact is that the union is recommending we vote yes to an EBA which involves giving up 90% of conditions and allowances which are favourable to cabin crew in exchange for a minimal increase in annual pay. I think that is worth complaining about.

[regionalguy]

Well well well, the EBA has been voted down, yes i agree what a surprise particularly given the big push by the MSN crew to vote no ! i don't think AF can take all the credit though, there are some of us that don't take any notice of him at any time and also didn't like the deal.

I do hope AF has got a way forward from here for all those that do take him seriously. With the Mac bank crew taking over and the papers saying that no one knows how the QF group will be run now, i for one don't feel secure at all with the no vote.

Does he know if eaa crew join the TWU that the company will deal with them ? Does he know if the TWU wants a small group of regional crew to look after. Didn't the pilots have a similar situation and the company basically told them to go jump ? :ugh: Can someone who has been invited to the MSN thing ask AF to check if its mandatory, seeing he is the one with the :mad: and into research.

I understand that AF does know now that DH's letter and the union meeting were within the limits of so called coercion and duress, i can only imagine that the union did too and thats why there was nothing jumping up and down from FAAA on the letter from our esteemed leader. Apparently it is ok to recommend a vote (DH's letter) and for the union to tell us that they don't know what will happen with a no vote. Actually i'm pretty sure thats happened every EBA.

The QF forum has some really interesting info on what is being touted around about all our futures, the main thing that i am afraid of is that with the new owners coming in, they will know that we were offered a new agreement and said resoundingly that we didn't want it (and ss apparently did). Does anyone else think that that puts us in a precarious position, or is it just me being paranoid ???? I think not.

Well kiddies now is our chance to show that company what we are all about, the union newsletter said there would be meetings in the new year, i for one will be very interested in what AF has in store for us there, or if he has managed to get the TWU to take us on and then get the company to deal with them. Guess he's going to be a busy boy this Xmas.


Don't take this post as anything other than what it was meant for, to get us all thinking about what the hell we are going to do now and how we could now be held very much accountable for our actions!! :ok:

Me thinks its about to hit the fan big time !!!:=

[dasher8dash]

Hello All,

I have been reading these forums for some time but like many others have only now gotten the urge to post an opinion. Can I say that I am trully concerned that some people are using this site as a way of berating, belittleing and basically being rude to their collegues.
I must say that I think AF is a great guy who like us all is concerned about his future work conditions, all he has done is made some enquiries into some of the actions the union and management have made and shared the response he recieved with collegues. With the information that was shared each individual can do with it what they want.
So for those of you posting your venomous opinions, stop hiding behind this site and either say it directly to him or stop typing!!

Now for the problem at hand, we as Eastern flight attendants must stop our inner bickering and start to address our situation. We need to be reasonable and unified in what we want from the company and of course be prepared that we will need to give up some (not all) of our current working conditions. Lets start to get an idea of exactly what it is we want, if we can get some personal opinions down then its a start.

My understanding is that the company basically does not want to budge from the proposal that was offered, they must accept however that it was voted down by a large majority and there are things they will need to change in order for their business to continue to run. Industrial action is a real option for us but we must stick together - I would be very interested in us now posting ideas on exactly what reasonable conditions we are willing to forego or wish to retain.

Is it fair to say that we do not want DTA?
Is it a MUST that we retain our 7 hour day 2 rule?
How important is the base salary?

Would love to gauge some peoples answers to questions like these!!

[crew_lj]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone!
Wishing everyone a safe and happy festive holiday.

Remember that Jesus is the reason for this season.

Finally, I'd just like to say we are strong and we must stay together. Please don't fight with other flight attendants, WE all work hard and the company relies on all of us for the business to run. Without US the company cannot operate passenger services. We are all here for each other.

If you look deep enough, all this negativity developed when our three 'friends' who held meetings over the last few weeks photocopied and posted us Sunstates EBA, which apparently took months of negotiations to decide… what colour paper to print them on.

[regionalguy]

"My understanding is that the company basically does not want to budge from the proposal that was offered, they must accept however that it was voted down by a large majority and there are things they will need to change in order for their business to continue to run. Industrial action is a real option for us"

Are you serious Dasher ? the company don't have to re negotiate again, let alone give us anything. all management in the qf group will be absolutely sh:mad:ing themselves at the moment, wondering what the new bosses are going to do with their jobs or worse, what they'll be expected to do to keep it. all i know is corporate take overs are not usually done so that they can spend more money, i'm pretty sure the whole idea is cut back everywhere, whether they can really afford to or not, and just make more money and lots of it. thats if they don't "let go" of areas that aren't making enough money........

and as for industrial action, you are completely narrow minded if you think that all (or even the majority) of eaa crew are going to be prepared to take industrial action. We have had a lot of new crew over the last couple of years and we cannot expect them to feel as passionately about the working conditions. lets face it, their just happy to be in a job they love. Then there is the not so new crew, who understand that the job we are all in, is not the same and is forever changing and also realise that this will happen with or without us.

i agree with you we should stick togther and become united, however it just not realistic amongst our crew. listen in the crew room already, sure you've got the outspoken no voters, but what about the others that sit quitely or change the subject. whilst we might be the most vocal, we are by no means the majority. it just insanity to think that because 80 voted no that they will all take action.

by the way give casa a call and see how long it takes to have someone certified to work on the dash, i understand its about 4 days, the rest of our training is company rstuff not casa. So how much of the business is not going to run without us anyway. they trained managers up when long haul were taking action a couple of years ago, do you really think we at eaa are going to scare the group into doing nothing.

Whatever it is we do from here, we need to think it through carefully including the potential risks to us as a group. Its time to get our heads out of our back sides and look at this situation with an open and realistic mind.

PS Dasher is it only when people on this site talk about AF that you get upset or is that rule for everyone this forum talks about ?..... he wasn't just "making enquiries" about the actions of the union and management, this forum tells us that he was lodging complaints about them thanks to a quote from the MSN chat room where he left his name and his number. if even he, "the almighty mis-informed no voter" can't be honest about his actions, how do you really expect people to respect him enough to take his advice and so called leadership ? He was wrong about the trumped up coercion so now he was just making enquiries... looks nothing like the behavoiur of a leader to me, more like the gutless moves of short man syndrome ie: always ready to talk it up but with nothing there to back it up. by the way is he still a union rep ? surely they've got to have something to say about his failed attempt at a complaint.

[EAAFA]

Well said Dasher8Dash.

We must remain unified and positive. Sure, the timing is bad given the situation at Qantas, but that doesn't mean we should just roll over and play dead.

I'll be at the meeting and hope everyone else who isn't working at the time will come too.

Also, I'm sure I speak for many in saying it's time to end the AF bashing. It's a classic case of diverting attention from the issue at hand.

[mr-boo]

Hi everyone,

Now that the EBA has been voted down, has anyone heard anything new about what is happening now? Once again, I feel totally out of the loop and would love to hear anything new. :oh:

I know I'm gullible but I'm really hoping that something good will come from this. I can truthfully say that the whole period where the EBA was an issue was one of the most distressing times of my life. For the first time ever, I really had some awful doubts about a job I really enjoy. :{

[EAAFA]

regional guy,

Just to set things straight, AF did a lot of research before casting a no vote and he doesn't deny what he did in regard to the complaint. He is perfectly upfront about it. I've worked with him a number of times in the last two months so I've spoken to him in detail about the issues.

It seems to me as if you are too ready to question people's integrity based on hearsay. If you don't know them personally, please give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for your statement about new people just being glad to be flight attendants and not being passionate about their working conditions, you must be joking. I don't know one new person who is indifferent to what kind of EBA they will be working under. I don't know about Sydney, but in Melbourne the new people are just as passionate about this as anyone else.

[regionalguy]

EAA FA
I didn't mean to infer that the new crew didn't care at all about their EBA but I don't think you can expect them to care as much about it as we more longer serving crew do. I'm sure if you ask them they will agree with you, however not wanting to start up an argument when you are relatively new to a job and really saying what you believe are two very different things.

As for AF, please don't assume that I don't know him or that I have'nt listened to what he has had to say. He was extremely vocal about his intentions and what he believed we should all be doing when the voting was happening. My point earlier was that he had nothing, absolutely nothing to back up what he was saying, and in fact was trying to lead us down a very tenuous path, whether he even realised that or not may be a defence for his action....... ignorance powered by ego is my view.

He suggested industrial action, he spoke of lodging complaints of coercion and duress, he wanted us to move to another union who I don't believe has any clout in getting the company to deal with them, nor have they had any expereice in looking after crew. Personally I don't actually mind him, but what I do have big issues with is his god like behaviour during the vote. That and then when I aksed some questions in my earlier posts, he came in with a different log in name (Dasher) and tried to water down what he had said he was doing, because he got it wrong. Not my idea of a leader, a leader needs to be able to take responsibility for their actions and advice, not to mention some experience and knowledge about what he is spruiking.

Do I wish the FAAA had called for action ? maybe but if we were going to do that I would want to know that we had the backing of all crew, which I and plenty of other crew, don't believe we have. We are in dodgy times now with the take over, I've said it before and I want to keep my job. Apart from all the whinging that goes on, we all know what is expected of us and what we get for it and its better than what's around "out there". Do any of us honestly believe that the take over group are going to care what 130 regional crew think or do for that matter ? Give me a break, we are all replaceable within days if that's what they want.

mr - boo
I agree it was a bloody awful time to be at work. I don't know what's happening, I asked around the other day and was told "we'll see" when everyone's back from leave (I guess that means NG ). Just for the record there are a lot of us that love our job too buddy, your not alone. :ok:

[regionalguy]

I've heard that company will be meeting with the FAAA again on the eba (through someone who spoke to NG herself). I rang the FAAA and asked when the meetings were going to be on and was told that a survey of all members would be coming out next week. :D

So keep a look out guy and gals for our survey. should be an interesting read.

PS. they said survey to members only (gotta love that...... no membership no say):ok:

[EAAFA]

regional guy, I don't disagree with all of your statements, however the more you say about AF the more convinced I am that your opinions are based on hearsay. Also, I know who Dasher is and it isn't AF.
I'm over arguing about another person. If he wants to he can defend himself.

Can anyone confirm the rumour that an announcement about progression will be made this week?

[mr-boo]

I just received the letter from the FAAA in regards to what issues are most important to us. I have to admit that I don't totally understand all 5 of them so I will be endeavouring to find out what they all are. :hmm:

Was just wondering what everyone thinks, in order, are our most important issues. :confused:

Am also curious who would be willing to take industrial action. :ooh:

[regionalguy]

mr boo

got my letter yesterday too. just a thought, i don't think its all that smart putting our thoughts about the issues and industrial action on this site, i know JG reads this forum and i'm betting he's not the only one. :sad:

ask the rep or give the faaa a call if you don't understand what they're asking.

EAA
couldn't agree with you more and no haven't heard about progression other than the usual rumour mill. :ok:

[mouse78]

Hi all,

Like us all I am very concerned about the developments, especially this letter we have recieved. I think we all need to consider VERY seriously which path we will take. We are in a very volitle industry, and things can change in a flash (look what happened to Southern!). We must also remeber that each base will have different attitudes to what they think is most important, for those who don't do O/nights the 7 hour rule will not matter.

Someone in the crew room down south told me that we had to be united, I agree, but sometimes, each base will be looking out for themselves. I will admit that my vote was one of the minority, but like some others, I am concerned about our future.

I am Dash Trash and proud of it!:ok:

Peace:)

Mouse

[CrashAxe]

Mouse78,

I'm a bit like you... I also think about the implications of us taking industrial action! I've heard JG say that it'd take about 2-3 days to train a FA in the basic functions of cabin crew (ie EP's, Av Med and Regs -that's it!). No one is irreplaceable. And I'm pretty sure that our Company would do what it needs to in order to ensure the airline continues to run.

It's interesting re. comments about 'being united'. I've also had the same thing said to me in SYD... the trouble is that the majority of us are selfish at heart and really, wouldn't act in the collective interest; it would purely be about self interest.

Mmmmmmm interesting times really! God I wish I had that backpay. I got my creditcard bill in yesterday and I'm freaking out! Here's hoping to $1000 worth of Woring RDO / Drafting money over February! :ugh:

[m00ving_on]

mouse78, the only reason you don't do overnights out of MQL is because you are protected by the 13 hour aggregate/ 7 hours on the second day after min rest. Give that up and you'll be doing overnights with 4 sectors first day min rest 4 sectors second day. THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE BEFORE MAKING UP YOUR MIND:ugh:

[mouse78]

Mooving_on, I can tell you that in the last couple of weeks i have had two seperate occasions where I have done 4 sectors - min rest - four sectors! It happens already! As part of a team that does the most duty/flight hours in the company, I sometimes find it hard to listen to my fellow FA's complaining about their hours! I believe that we need to see a large range of sunstate rosters before the scare mongering starts! Remeber that 1/3 of FA's voted yes!

Mouse

PS The day that I see a Sunnies FA get on here and let us know "how bad it is", then I may listen to the Chicken Littles!:=

[m00ving_on]

mouse, it's up to you to do the research. seek out sunnies f/as and ask them what it's like. don't wait for them to come to you.
it's funny you going on about chicken little when your posts indicate that you voted YES out of fear of what might happen if you voted NO...
the real chicken little is YOU

[crew_lj]

moovin your forgetting she is 'country'

[mouse78]

:hmm: Country I may live, but city I grew up! And let me remind you that there are some pretty cluey FA's up here! I was not swayed by the atitude of others, I read the EBA on offer, and felt that there are some things that will have to change to ensure that Eastern can remain profitable, and that we have a job! I mentioned all this in a previous post regarding the takeover bid, uncertainty in the industry.

If I may add, overall we are paid pretty well for what we do, and the hours we work, and that would not have changed. Try picking grapes or oranges for a day! My other half works 60 + hours a week for the same pay as I get, is away from home, and lives in a caravan! I have my dream job and work 30 hours a week for the same pay.

Love it, or loath it, the new EBA will come in, and things will have to change.

Mouse

PS I'm sorry for my rant the other night, but hey, sometimes we have to vent!

[regionalguy]

Gee what a great job we're doing of staying united. just a quick read of the most recent posts and the slanging match is off and running (again). Great job guys !:=

CrashAxe you are right on the money when you say bases will look after themselves, am i right in assuming you were referring to the "strictly confidential" meeting mel base had on Jan 22 ? For :mad: sake, does anyone think that's being united ??????

Breaking away and having little get togethers, to discuss "our future". Is that mel bases future, or eaa crew future ? Maybe one of the three who organised this little shindig (AP, DV or AF) could fill the rest of us in. Just in case anyone else was wondering the turn up to the meeting has been reported as "about 6", "maybe 10", "only a few" etc, so we can't even call mel base united.

If we're going to get anywhere it has be to together, all bases, all crew, together. Stay united......... for the love of god, lets start to actully practice what we preach.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Does anyone else agree with me or am i just wishful thinking here ???

Yes i'm ranting again, apologies up front, but this is just stupidity at its finest.

[EAAFA]

regionalguy,
Why don't you ask questions directly person to person instead of spreading misinformation on the internet?

mouse78,
How much are you willing to give up to keep your job? I don't see how anyone could possibly think the small pay rise being offered is worth everything we are expected to give up.
Also, the working conditions your boyfriend accepts are completely irrelevant to our situation.

[m00ving_on]

mouse78, at last something we can agree on: YOU do get paid appropriately for the work you do. The rest of us who do a good job deserve better.
funny how earlier you said you do more hours in mql than any other base, then you say you only work 30 hours per week. that's less than me and i'm a "lazy sydneysider".:cool:
you and regionalguy have no clue what you're talking about. i should nominate you for excel awards for raising morale by making us all laugh with your rubbish:D

[regionalguy]

EAAFA
what misinformation did i spread ? the three i mentioned earlier did put a notice in all mel crew mail boxes for a meeting on the 22nd. no misinformation there everyone in mel knows about they just didn't bother to show up at it so whats the problem ? if a meeting is going to be organised those organising it should at the very least be able to admit to doing it, or maybe they're a little embarassed at the turn up ???? And as for person to person, why should i be any different to anyone else they try to berate with their ignorance. no-one tells those three what they really think, everyone just gives them lips service, its become a bit of a joke amongst the rest of us actually. :p

M00ving on
you are exactly what we don't need at the moment. you're very quick to turn on your fellow colleagues for expressing an opinion your criticism is just pathetic, although having read your previous posts thats all you can do it seems. if you've got nothing constructive or are just not able to be constructive why you don't do like your log in and just move on ? its clear your not happy and no one can change that little fact but you.:confused:

[EAAFA]

regionalguy,
The misinformation you are spreading is your erroneous assessment of the aim, purpose and outcome of a meeting you say you did not attend.
I don't understand how anyone can form such strong opinions based on assumptions.

[m00ving_on]

regionalguy, are you for real???
the more you say the bigger fool you make of yourself.
at first i laughed at what you wrote but now i'm worrried that someone like you works here. at the rate syd f/as have been covering mel flying i might end up working with you and that's a scary thought.:eek:
whatever happened to psych tests before someone is offered a job?:uhoh:

[regionalguy]

EAA
Mycomments were not based on assumptions, we do talk at work you know and whether we attended or not, we've all had to endure the ramblings of the minority in mel base.

lots of crew (both mel and now syd base) simply saw it as another attempt by a certain individual to once again try (dismally i might add) elevate himself to a level of importance, only this time he has roped in the other two with him. a $25 charge to discuss an eba that we've rejected and to criticise the survey from the union and the union reps. of course the almighty with all his proven industrial knowledge and experience can do better for us. Lets see suggestions and problems reportedly were

Suggestion - mass resignations from the faaa Problem - no members no representation, Suggestion - join twu Problem - can't make company deal with them, Suggestion vote of no confidence in reps, Problem - don't know how we go about doing that !

......... "the blind leading the blind", "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery".... pick one, either one they both fit perfectly.

If it was for the betterment of all our crew, all crew would have been invited to a meeting in their base, not just our base talking the dribble that is dished out to us.

M00ving_on
I can only dream of working with you one day, you little treasure !!!! Have a great day sunshine !! MMWAHH:p

[EAAFA]

Regional Guy,
You seem intent on causing trouble. All of the information you claim to have has been received second or third hand. Most of it is either untrue or distorted. This thread was started as a way for crew from all bases to share ideas about the proposed EBA, but you're using the anonymity it affords to spread gossip and lies about fellow colleagues, and that's really low.
You may not be aware of it but people in the base are talking about the messages you have posted, and it is not in positive terms. The more you write, the more you reveal about your identity. Your reputation is at stake so if I were you, I'd put more thought into my words and actions.

[regionalguy]

EAAFA
This is getting boring, everytime i post about what has happened in the mel base you get all defensive and accuse me of spreading mis information, lying about my colleagues blah blah blah

I've asked you to explain where i have spread mis information and you can't, i now ask you to state who i have lied about, or explain what trouble am i causing ?

You are right about one thing though, people in the base are talking, but they're talking about the futile attempts by certain members of our base to elevate themselves to areas way beyond their capabilities.

what i find most interesting is your defensivness to my posts when nothing i have ever posted has been untrue. although it does make me think why would you in particular be so upset by my posts ? perhaps its because their a little close the heart, your heart that is ????

YOU have been talking about my posts at work and its obviously driving you up the wall not knowing who i am. that alone has some people talking, your attempts to deduce who you think i am has been a talking point. just to remind you PPRUNE is a forum based on anonymity and as such i remain, unlike yourself, completely anonmious. :D

Oh and as for my reputation, its as it always has been.... great, but thanks anyway. there are certainly funnier personalities/reputations in mel base keeping the rest of us talking and laughing at the moment. Indeed it would take a mel based Feinnes moment to surpass our three amigoes for some lighthearted jocularity at this point.

Just to make myself clear here, we don't talk about them ALL the time, its all calmed down somewhat now, and life is slowly but gradually returning to normal, that is of course, until the next installment of the almighty and his mates. Thats not an invitation by the way, just an assumption that these three (unfortunately) may still think they've got the answers to all our problems :sad:

[browneyedgirl]

Get your head out or your :mad: Warren!

[EAAFA]

browneyedgirl,
I don't think I can top your post, but here goes.

regionalguy,
First of all, I've already said in the past, if you want to discuss specific issues, do so face to face with the people in question. If you think it's acceptable to rubbish your colleages behind the cover of anonymity, then your notion of integrity is very different from that of the other people I know.

Secondly, my last post addressed to you was intended as friendly advice. If you choose to take it the wrong way, I can't be held responsible.

Thirdly, you may think it's clever to figure out my identity. There is no skill in discovering the identity of someone who doesn't cover it up. I have no reason to, since I don't abuse this forum to attack, degrade and insult my colleagues.

Finally, I do agree with you: this is becoming boring, so if I don't respond to your future posts it isn't because I feel defeated. It will be becuase I don't want to continue this pointless discussion.

[regionalguy]

browneyedgirl

wrong so wrong its funny, . perhaps its because "Warren" hasn't bothered to keep up the pretence that most in our base have with you lot that you assume its him..... but please keep on trying

EAAFA

pointless is right, you and your mates are pointless and if you think for one moment you will stop me from expressing not only my views but the views of many others, you too are wrong, very very wrong.

your defensive because i'm right and its expressing these views has just been a long time coming. you won't respond to my posts any more, gee what a shame, not sure how i'll sleep tonight.

[lfdlfp]

eaafa, you are too polite for your own good. what you write obviously goes over regionalguy's head. the guy is a negative, narrow minded hypocrite. what kind of :mad: hole sledges his workmates and talks about a confidential meeting online?:confused: it makes me want to :yuk: . i think he's pissed off coz he was planning to resign as soon as he got his backpay, and now he has to stick around and wait and see if he gets his money. no one with a brain would accept that eba if they wanted to stay in this job.

[regionalguy]

lfdlfp
you've got a short memory mate, you had some choice words to say about our union rep when the vote was happening and all he did was give up his own time on everybodies behalf, sure it was a crap deal but he gave up his time for us and certainly wasn't to blame ...... although what am i thinking don't you consider syd/mql base crew as your colleagues let alone your mates .... its all about mel base isn't it....... and you've got the hide to call me narrow minded. all my posts have been on the basis of sticking together and staying united, all bases, all crew, hardly narrow minded.

my posts are definately a shot at those who believe breakaway clandestine meetings to discuss "the future" of eaa crew without the invlovement or ability to be involved for all eaa crew is a joke a :mad: joke to be precise. not only that but the quality of information and discussion was imbecilic at best. i posted some of the discussions topics and have they been denied, no of course not how could they be its the truth. well having said that they could be denied, but it would only further expose the calibre of these individuals as leaders publicly

oh and i hate to rain on your little parade pal but i'm not now, nor was i ever going anywhere and just in case you missed it, we're not getting our back pay, we were told that pretty clearly when the vote came back so if i was "warren" and was only hanging around for that, surely i'd have left by now ?

just like browneyedgirl and eaafa you need to try again ........ god forbid you lot accept that you don't talk for the majority and they'res a lot of crew in the mel base who take a very dim view of our three amigoes whether they're prepared to say it face to face, on here or not at all, does not change the fact that thats how people think. if your hearing comments reflecting my posts maybe, just maybe, its because we're getting sick and tired of your ramblings and futile attempts to grandstand, proportedly on behalf of eaa crew, when in reality it's transparent that its all about individual egos and not much else.

[browneyedgirl]

Then what ARE you hanging around for? PISS OFF! We dont need backstabbing people like you. No matter what happens with the EBA...........how the hell did YOU get a job here? So glad I am up north away from you. I am done with listening to the ramblings of a MORON. Keep as far away from us as possible. Heaven help the Melbourne crew if you are an example of unity and togetherness. This thread is done......but mate.........watch how you treat your fellow workmates. I waste no more time on you. The End.

[mouse78]

Okay I have had a week away to come back and look at the poo you guys have been chucking at each other!!!!!

So much for a united stand, it is SYD vs MEL/MQL and if you wanted to slang MQL you should have done it in public, not have done it personally! For those who think this EBA is s:mad:t then go shag some hollywood star! I am sick of this stuff and the personal attacks on people i know and care about! If you have a problem then contact me personally! All you have to do is send me a message via internal mail. And if you dont have the balls then get off PPrune, and let those of us with a decent point of view stay on.

OOORRAAHHH to MEL base!:ok:

Love ya,
Mouse

[regionalguy]

gee browneyed how terriblly dramatic (not to mention rough as guts) of you.

quite pathetic really how you try to blame me for disunity in the mel base, when i was not the one to set up the b:mad: t meeting and have no-one show up ! that screams unity doesn't it ????? what about syd base, what about mql ? don't suppose anyone actually thought outside that little box did they ? can't imagine how we will get on if these individuals aren't leading us into our employment future. F:mad: K ME, it just doesn't get any more infantile than this.

i might say some things on here that certain individuals don't like but thats only certain individuals who have reacted because i've clearly hit a raw nerve. leaders should be able to accept criticism and learn from it, answer questions and provide insight. its abundantly clear this lot can't, they've made a few suggestions, but just a minor hitch, they're all BAD, are of no benefit to us and they have no idea how to implement them even if they were a potential way forward.

by the way i see your ".....but mate......watch how you treat your fellow workmates". threat the same way i see their leadship, IDLE, INFANTILE AND BASELESS.

an end to this thread, gee why's that, ? a little too hot in the kitchen sweetheart ??? i've enjoyed the fact that you've reacted to my posts, have not had any tangible answers to my questions and are now pulling the plug when i continue to state my case. (gee what great union reps you'd all be) all of this is thereby informing any eaa crew member from any eaa base, that you are not leaders, just egotisical fools with ideas of grandure, way way beyond your capabilities. you are very happy to throw stones at those that do put themselves out for us because you didn't like what was presented yet have not yourselves displayed an iota of the qualities necessary to do the job.

perhaps a return to MSN is the way for you guys, that way you'll only hear what you want to hear from those you want to listen to and can then continue to operate at your own childish, self absorbed level. it gets a little hard when people who have a mind of their own, have the audacity to use it. best go back to your comfort or should i say twilight zone.

thank you, thank you for taking part in what has turned out to be a very successful, yet unplanned exercise of exposure !!! :D :D :D :D :D

[qfdash8]

Well, if only we could take on management the way we take on each other....

Why dont we grow some balls:sad: and "just do it" instead of arguing between ourselves.........

Ive lost count of how many times ive heard the words "WE CANT DO THAT" when suggestions are made about action we can take...... Stop using the word CAN'T and figure out a way we can, and then maybe things will get done.....this situation isnt an easy one and i know there are alot of intellegent people at both bases so lets put our heads together instead of banging them together.

Oh....... and just a reminder "please remain seated until the captain turns off the fasten seatbelt sign".... PEACE:ok:

[EAAFA]

mouse78, I hope you I haven't offended you. I try hard to stay objective and impersonal, but unfortunately some people are determined to drag this discussion into the gutter.
Welcome back!

[browneyedgirl]

Brett........its a pity you didnt put as much effort into trying to negotiate a better package for us. Stop slamming everyone else for having an opinion. We are all getting tired of your "grandstanding"

[EAAFA]

"thank you, thank you for taking part in what has turned out to be a very successful, yet unplanned exercise of exposure "
It seems more to me as if this was a planned exercise of dividing the bases so as to weaken our cause.
Luckily, from the lack of support you are getting, I'd say the exercise has been anything but succesful.
And by the way, you suggest that I was wrong in guessing your identity: I didn't say I knew who you were. I said that you are leaving clues about your identity.
Now, can we please return to what matters? Have any dates for FAAA meetings been announced yet? We haven't had any updates in Melbourne for a while.

[m00ving_on]

Gee, you take a little time off and this discussion gets real nasty! i'm big enough to admit i was wrong about who reg is. browneyedgirl, you hit the nail on the head! it all falls into place! bi is the only one in syd who is obsessed with af, the meeting and the msn group. ha ha
he should stick to posting nude pix of himself on the net instead of posting his opinions. neither is palatable but at least the pix are on restricted sites and easy to avoid!:ouch:

eaafa, sorry, had to get that off my chest. haven't heard anything from the union re meetings either...

[crew_lj]

Brett on behalf of Qantaslink and the team today, thank you for choosing to not represent us, we hope you've enjoyed screwing us over, and look forward to seeing the back of you when you progress to mainline! In the mean time sit back relax and stand down from your representative position!

[regionalguy]

people, people, people, first warren now brett, i think you should keep trying though you might just get it one day. lets see maybe next post i'll say something supportive about MB and THEN I'll be her !!! the post after that will be supoortive of hmmmmmm i'll just think about it and surprise you. it really could be fun. perhaps a list, yes a list would be good, then you could check it off as you continue to get it wrong, at least that way you'll keep track. just a suggestion,.......its really up to you.

as for lack of support, how many crew actually post on here eaafa ? not bloody many, even in the height of the eba there might have been between 6 and 10 lets see, we've got about 130 - 135 crew so that's somewhere between 4% and 7% at the moment they're is the 4 of you so thats approx 3.5% yep your surrounded by well wishers. and because the crew whose views that i'm reflecting don't actually log in and take the time to put some crappy msg in support of my posts, or sling some s:mad: t at you (or who they think you are), you have the insanity to believe that they don't exist ? is that really what you are saying ? if so, that's just impressive ingorance and i'm begining to feel sorry for you, i genuinely am.

your last post really has been one of your more infantile if we look at it from a standpoint of validity. not that the previous ones have been shinning examples either, but that last one really is the cake's icing.

i really want to pay attention to this next bit all of you, i don't want bi's job. i don't want it because i don't have the knowledge, experience, or the wish for grandure and i'm quite happy to say so. i am very happy to come to work, do our thing and go home. i wished we'd been given a better eba, but we didn't and we said no. i don't believe all crew give enough of a toss to fight, nor do i think it would do us any good anyway. the job is going to change whether we like it or not, how smart we are from here on in is up to us.

What i do REALLY object to though is inexperienced, illinformed yet loud mouthed and stupid fools who think they can lead us. that's been my point, only you lot got all hot and bothered because i had the nerve to speak up and say what most in mel are saying behind your backs. think about it, was everyone in mel who wasn't working and not at that meeting honestly been "busy". NO they just weren't interested take that as your vote of confidence save yourself the embarrassment. my tip to you and your buddies.

And its been discussed, if bi progresses over before the eba is done, there are quite a lot of us that will insist the faaa conduct a VOTE for his replacement so at least we will have a say in who the next rep will be and not just the one with the loudest voice, because in this particular case he and his mates don't know what the hell they're talking about. we've heard you, you've made yourselves clear, you won't get our vote i promise.

and as for weakening our cause or dividing the bases, PLEASE give me a break, my views on unity and togetherness are very clear in my previous posts not to mention my views on your little meeting in mel ONLY. that was so futile even i was embarrassed for you.

[lfdlfp]

regionalguy, have you considered counselling? you call people names, spread bull:mad: t, can't READ properly, then you describe others as infantile??? is that your idea of encouraging unity and togetherness???:ugh:
you say one of the things that happened at the meeting was that they "criticised the survey from the union". you yourself said the meeting was on the 22nd of jan. THE SURVEY CAME OUT A WEEK LATER! (and by the way why did it take you so long to react to the meeting. maybe because you're not really in Mel and found out about it later)
you blame AF for the whole TWU idea but someone in Syd came up with that one.
you accuse me for "saying a few choice words about our union rep", then you defend him (yourself?). my note was about DM not BI.
you're obsessed with AF, the MSN crew and the Mel meeting. that is not the feeling among crew. trust me YOU are a minority all to yourself.
why don't we have more meetings so faaa we can be kept in the loop? the biggest problem with this negotiation was that we werent kept in the loop. if we were DM wouldn't have offered us the sunnies eba. does she wonder why she didn't get the right info from her rep on the ground? isn't it his job to tell her what the crew want? (like you?) he thinks he knows what we want but never bothers to ask us. i hope she is pissed off at him too.
from the way i see it eaafa is proper to the point of being anal (no offence eaafa;)), and you describe him as infantile! reading the posts it looks to me as if youre the defensive one with his knickers in a twist. pathetic...:{

[dooley227]

Wow qantaslink has turned to poo since i left 6 months ago. Was such a happy place to work with good people that got along. Now its just a big bitch fight over money that you will all end up with the same money anyway.
Trust me when i say this it is very good place to work compared to where iam now. At least people dont just stand in the ailse and take a dump and your not working with people who wont even speak because they are so stuck up that they cant see the light of day.
So be thankful of what you have now cause the grass is very brown of the other side of the fence.
Id love to know your names but am pretty sure i know who you are,all of you.
Cheers

[TightSlot]

Is there something in the water in Australia? I only ask because to the uninitiated, reading this and the QF threads, it might appear that Aussies have dificulty in communicating without resorting to childish insults and bickering? I know this can't be true because I know many Australian people that live normal lives without conflict and squabble.

Let me help.

Abuse of others will not be tolerated here on PPRuNe: You play the ball, not the player. This applies whether you believe you have been provoked, or not. The language used in your posts will always be in the highest Cabin Crew tradition i.e. Thoughtful, considered, relevant, precise and intelligent.

This thread will not be allowed to disintegrate into a bitch-fest: Consider this a warning!

[regionalguy]

Apologies to the moderator and anyone else i have offended, i admit my posts have disintergrated to a level way beyond appropriate and your right, it's not good form, in fact its poor form and i should have known better. i consider myself as being told and it won't happen again.

lfdlfp
i can assure you i'm not obsessed with af and the msn thing. i didn't accuse him of coming up with the twu idea i accused him of pushing the idea, because he was. i thought my point was clear, although apparently it was not. i was objecting to the misinformation being spread (coercion and duress complaint), the encouragment of the twu and the character assasinations of all those who were saying vote yes, the inability to acknowledge when he got it wrong, ect spruiking as a leader without ensuring the information is accurate, credible, reliable and in our best interest, screams incompetent, that was my point, he is no leader.

my mistake, and i recognise it, the survey did come out after the meeting so it couldn't have been discussed there. i should have been clearer in my post about the survey criticising in the base, once it came out. nevertheless, my post was about the meeting and the lack of direction from these leaders. yes my timing was off, but that was hardly the point to my post.

i only referred to the meeting in response to a couple of posts talking about bases and individuals looking after themselves and the slagging mooving gave mouse for having a different opinion. my post was about staying united. i admit they quickly went downhill from there, but that was frustration at the lack of acknowledgement for what was actually going on in our base. not an excuse for the denegration, but it was the reason.

and before you berrate me over that, yes the meeting was eventually acknowledged, but the reason for its orgnisation and isolation and the lack of attendance was'nt. all at the same time as i'm being accused of causing trouble and spreading misinformation for talking about it. yes definately frustrating.

i also agree with you that bi and the faaa should have known what we want or more to the point, what we would not accept - absolutely no argument there.

i did get you mixed up with crew_lj when i accused you of having a go at bi. i was wrong, apologies to you too.

i'm really not defensive, just frustrated at the lack of acknowledgement for what has been going on in mel. if it came across as defensive then i need to choose my words more carefully. mel base are not united in who they want to represent them, or how supportive they'll be.

as for how much agreement in opinions we have from other crew- we can continue to put our point forward, but its just going round in circles, i see no point continuing to spruik it on here, time will tell anyway. you assure me i'm on my own and i assure you, you get plenty of lip service.

[EAAFA]

lfdlfp, "eaafa is proper to the point of being anal". If you think it's anal to be considerate and cautious before posting messages on this thread, then I guess I am.

The fact that the Melbourne meeting took place was never denied (to say it was "eventually acknowledged" is not true). What was discussed at the meeting will not be addressed here because the meeting was confidential and this is a public forum. As one person has previously said, our managers read Pprune. Why would anyone divulge information about a meeting for cabin crew to management by talking about it here?

[regionalguy]

eaafa
you initially responded to my post about the meeting with a suggestion of asking questions face to face without talking about the meeting at all. it wasn't until your next post that you acknowledged the meeting, so it was eventually acknowledged, there is no lie in that. you haven't commented on any other parts of my recent post and only you know why.

the meeting was not for all crew and unity once again, was the point to my post. you have not even attempted to explain how all crew would benefit from a meeting with half a dozen crew in our base only. in fact to call it a meeting is an exaggeration, i've had more crew at bbq's over the years.

discussing the meeting on here was not problem, management knew about it anyway as you well know. while i don't agree posting ideas about the eba or telling each other who would fight or not fight, we are a very small number of eaa crew on here and management would surely recognise that. besides you can't get into trouble by having bbq's or get togethers or anything else outside of work.

[EAAFA]

regionalguy, first of all, thank you for calming down.
Did I deny that the meeting took place? No.
Were all Melbourne flight attendants invited? As far as I know, they were. It was up to them to choose whether to attend or not.
I don't know how to make it clearer that specific questions about what was discussed at the meeting will not be addressed because the meeting was only for cabin crew and this is a public forum. Whether management knew about the meeting is irrelevant. The fact remains they do not need to know what staff do in their free time. Feel free to send me a private message.
Is the Melbourne meeting a sign of disunity among bases? No. If it were possible to have one meeting for all bases, one would have been organised. Are you suggesting we agree to meet at a chosen location equally convenient for Mildura, Sydney and Melbourne crew? I don't see how that would work.
Is the turn-out for the meeting a measure of its success? Perhaps, perhaps not. I was there in order to hear what my colleagues had to say, not to measure the meeting's success.
During the negotiations for the current EBA a similar meeting was organised in Sydney. No one objected to it. No one saw it as a sign of disunity. It was simply a way for people to get together and talk about their working conditions.

[regionalguy]

eaafa
no i obviously don't think a chosen location for all three bases would work, but a run of meetings would have suggested that the aim was for all crew not just our lot.

i didn't realise that syd had a meeting during the eba negotiations, i knew there was one quite a long time ago, but i thought it was before the eba negotiations started and we were all invited to go up. i know nikky went up from mel not sure that anyone else did, i know i didn't.

i don't think i've asked directly what was discussed, i've heard that through the vine and i've never accused you of denying the meeting.

i really don't want to continue to go around and around this issue with you. i've learnt thanks to the moderators words, that i can get pretty tacky when i'm not getting the responses i think are deserved and thats personally surprising and dissapointing. i'm quick to jump on someone else for the same thing i've been guilty of myself and to do that is hypocritical. i'm man enough to say so.

[EAAFA]

regionalguy,
On 19th of February you wrote:
"I've asked you to explain where i have spread mis information and you can't". The misinformation I referred to is your assessment of the meeting and the list of topics discussed at the meeting. You admit to getting that information on the grape vine. Did it ever occur to you that your sources were not correct?
The Sydney meeting I mentioned was during the negotiations for the EBA currently in effect, not the current negotiations. I was based in Melbourne at the time. I was not invited to attend the meeting and it didn't bother me one bit.
"i've never accused you of denying the meeting" No, but saying that I "acknowledged it eventually" implies that I initially denied it.
"i can get pretty tacky when i'm not getting the responses i think are deserved and thats personally surprising and dissapointing" Alternative avenues of obtaining the responses you wanted were always available to you. Do you have any idea how disappointing it is to me when a colleague refuses to respect the confidentiality of a meeting and instead persists in bringing the issues up in a public forum?

[regionalguy]

eaafa
you may be dissapointed in my posts about the meeting but i think it is time for you to accept that there are crew in our base that are dissapointed with the quality of proported leaders. this has been my point all along, yes i've let myself get sidetracked but that doesnt change the reality.

as for the meeting in syd your talking about, if it was for the negotiations for the current eba then your referring to a meeting in roughly 2002/2003 ? you've got a great memory if thats the case. anyway its now 2007 and we are in different times and we want different things.

i don't intend to continue to get caught up in this argument with you. i've made my points you've made yours i've apologised for what needed an apology and recognised my behaviour when it was needed but that doesn't mean i was wrong in having my say. my apology was for my language and the level of uncouth i allowed myself denegrate to.

In summary: if it was in the best interests of all crew, a meeting for each base would have been a better way of showing that and as for the proposed leaders, they don't have the support they think they have and should take the attendance at the meeting as an indication of that.

[lfdlfp]

regionalguy,
good on you for apologizing:ok: , but then you have to spoil it all by gradually going back to your old ways. which part of CONFIDENTIAL dont you get???:confused:
you admitted to a hell of a lot of mistakes but you still claim to have a right to speak your mind. sorry but if you want to make statements then you have to make sure they are based on fact.:ouch:
i don't remember when (cant' be bothered looking) but eaafa once said something about "you seem to be basing your opinions on hearsay". you denied it then but now you admit that you heard about it on the "vine". that my dear is hearsay.:hmm:
while you are coming clean why don't you admit that you are actually based in sydney. i got an interesting pm as proof of that...:D

[regionalguy]

lfdlfp
that statement about hearsay was in relation to my opinions of af as a leader and his dilution of the whole coercion duress stuff. i said then that my opinions were not based on hearsay. i've never even implied that i was at the meeting, not once, all my posts have been about the talk in the base. the vine reference was about the topics of discussion at confidential thing i'm not allowed to talk about.

as for making statements based on fact, your not fool proof there yourself. you've previously stated that i was planning on leaving once i got my backpay etc.... i'm not going anywhere and you got my identity wrong ! not a fact, but still your statement. not trying to start another fight, just making a point.

i've got no idea why you continue with my base, i'm not in syd, nor have i ever been. thats the reality of it. i don't know how many times i need to say that before it sinks in. no matter what is in your inetesting pm about my identity or base, the fact simply is i'm in mel !

as for admitting to my mistakes (2 of them) yep i did and i'm ok with that

[crew_lj]

regionalguy, I think it is safe to say we all know you have made a fool out of yourself with your contradicting posts and it needs to stop now.

Your posts can also read very unclear messages. I think it is important that if you are from Melbourne, which is such a small base, to talk with your colleagues about your opinions on any new propsed working condtions and stop critisising those that actually care about their future at Eastern. They are only trying to make life better.

You don't seem to have anything constructive to say, maybe that's something you could work on together with your team mates?

I feel really concerned that with your negative attitude, what do you really expect from your colleagues if your just going to make accusations about everyone. Who is going to trust you or want to continue working with you?

I also think if you can't admit to who you are, or where you are from, is there any truth in your posts? Maybe you have a gripe with your colleagues or its a classic case of jealousy and you don't have the guts to say something face to face.

[TightSlot]

Please now move on to the issues not the people.

Many thanks

[m00ving_on]

and the penny drops!
it wasn't easy but i now know who you are. regionalGUY indeed. i always thought you had balls and now i know.
you were a backstabbing dobber at kendall and nothing has changed. well don't look now regionalGUY but your ballbag has fallen out of your sizable knickers and everyone is LAUGHING AT YOU :} :) :eek: :D :D :D

[TightSlot]

and the penny drops!
Clearly it hasn't, so a three day ban may help concentrate your mind
Next please?

[EAAFA]

M00ving on,
What in the world are you talking about?

[lfdlfp]

m00 gets banned while reg calls his workmates stupid, imbecilic, insane, infantile, etc. that makes sense:confused:
reg, you accused eaaafa of going around in circles. you did it with him and are now trying to do it with me. :ugh:
i'm over this