Chinooks Kill Para in Afghanistan

[soddim]

Surprised nobody has picked up on the article on Page 22 of today’s Mail by Tom Rawstorne. Paras in Afghanistan lying injured by mines awaiting rescue by RAF having requesting helos with winches suffered one dead by Chinook without winch landing in the same minefield. Injured then having to lie there awaiting US helos with winches. According to the article this was a Falklands war lesson and it seems to have been forgotten.

"They sent in an RAF Chinook without a winch. We saw it coming in, were screaming at it not to land, but it came in and I knew what was going to happen straight away - it tried to land, set off the mines and that killed a colleague".

How many more wheels need to be invented?

[Tourist]

Old story.

[soddim]

How old - only saw it today?

Have the Chinooks in theatre got winches now - or is it not that old?

[Archimedes]

First reported in September - a thread on this forum can be found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245307)

You'll note that a couple of postings suggest that the original report may be a load of horlicks...

[soddim]

The Mail article states that "what happened next is a matter of no little contention" but what should not be contentious is whether the RAF Chinooks in Afghanistan have the capability of winching casualties aboard.

So do they or do they not?

Should they have?

[animo et fide]

Soddim

As was previously stated it is old news and has been proved unfounded. You also sound like a reporter unable to get decent information so you have to sculk around these forums for you story, if you want to know if we have hoists(winches stay inside the cabin!!) then try phoning the public relations officer at Odiham


AEF:=

[LookDownAndSmile]

I read the article you mention, and noted that in the final paragraph there was a specific comment from the MOD denying that any CH caused any landmines to go off. Something you clearly chose not to acknowledge.

From conversations I've had with people who do KNOW what they are talking about I am totally convinced that whilst the CH was there to assist in evacuating the wounded, it did not cause any further detonations.

If, indeed, the comments in the article from this particular Para were full and accurate quotes, and were quoted in context, not simply snippets extracted by the journalist for maximum impact, - somewhat doubtful given the average quality of reporting in the Mail - then given the extreme stress of the situation, and the terrible injuries these Paras had suffered, is it not entirely understandable that recollections of what actually occured may be coloured by pain and trauma, (perhaps even some fear), emotional and physical exhaustion, and could be somewhat skewed by the same?

I am in no way saying these Paras weren't incredibly brave and professional, because they were, and are - and I have nothing but admiration for them and those serving alongside them. Like many I mourn their lost, and have nothing but sympathy for those wounded who will continue to suffer as a result of their injuries for, in some cases, many years.

However, I have to also agree with the assessment of animo et fide and say that you do sound like a reporter skulking around for more sensationalism to feed the tabloids. That said, even if you are not, do you really think that your "touting for scandal" is going to help anyone, either over there or here, who is trying to make the best out of the whole situation and get our boys back safely? I think not!

Equally, if you try and justify your interest on the basis of trying to point out what went wrong, or what was required but not available, (allegedly a/c with hoists in this case) then don't you think there are a significant number of INFORMED PROFESSIONALS in the services who are perfectly capable of making this assessment themselves? I'm certain they don't need amateur armchair critics to assist them!!

I do hope that no-one here will pander to your obvious fishing for information and that if you have one decent bone in your body, you'd re-think your position and start supporting people instead of seeking to undermine morale and trust between the services.

..... a furious, but hopefully civil, LDaS .....

[The Helpful Stacker]

I seem to remember that at Gornji Vakuf in Bosnia there was a sizable orchard right next to the the refuel pans that was wired off because of the large amount of TMA-5's fitted with anti-personnel fuses that couldn't be lifted because the tree roots made it too dangerous. We had 6 Lynx and 2 Gazelles based there and used to get the 'Bos Bus' (internal movement flight run using either a Chinook or a Mil-8) in everyday, usually at least twice.

I can't remember them ever setting off the mines in the orchard.:rolleyes:

[SASless]

I flew Chinooks in Vietnam many moons ago. The rotorwash of the Chinook blew enough stuff around including barbed wire entanglements and tripfoot....that trip flares, AP mines and such could be set off. It was not the rotor wash itself but rather objects that moved with enough force to trigger those devices.

The NVA utilized anti-helicopter devices that were most effective....which incorporated improvished munitions and Chicom made Claymores. They were triggered by toppling sticks, cutting trip wires made of fishing line, or by pressure pads.

It is possible to land in a mine field with a fully laden Chinook and not trigger any mines. I did so quite by chance....very fortunately we learned of our mis-fortune after shutting the aircraft down. I chewed my finger nails to the elbow by the time we were able to depart.

Ever wonder why you have a drinking problem?

[soddim]

May I take this opportunity to thank sincerely those miserable individuals who have so helped my enquiry about winching from Chinooks in Afghanistan that I wonder why anybody bothers to seek information on this forum.

I am neither a reporter nor a chap who seeks to undermine our armed forces - indeed I have more than 36 years service. I made an honest mistake - I read someting in a newspaper and asked about it here without first searching through all the old threads - sorry!

Perhaps some of the contributors above should get out more and stop jumping on any poor sod who visits these pages with a genuine interest in verifying a newspaper story.

[Lizzie]

Well, maybe you should re-read the title of your post. Not very clear at all. No wonder you have wound people up.

Think about it.

[animo et fide]

Soddim


I do get out, quite alot actually, twice to Afghanistan this year! If as you say you are in the forces or recently retired, surely even you must have contacts down here at Odious to be able to answer your questions


AEF:p

[heights good]

First reported in September - a thread on this forum can be found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245307)

You'll note that a couple of postings suggest that the original report may be a load of horlicks...

Having just spent 3 weeks with the crewman of said aircraft I can say that the article is indeed nonsense. Not how it happened. Typical tabloids sensationalising. :rolleyes:

Heights good

[Mmmmnice]

girls girls girls - time for a break eh?
Personally I've given up believing anything I read in the press - they're not known as 'reptiles' for nothing! Cynic..moi?