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View Full Version : Blair 'sorrow' over slave trade


yakker
27th Nov 2006, 13:29
Sorry why should Blair apologise for something that happened 200 years ago? It is not his fault, my fault, or any person alive today's fault. We acknowledge it was wrong, the fact it doesn't happen today proves that. Should we ask the Italians to apologise for the Roman invasion, the Vikings for their raping and pillaging, etc..

Grainger
27th Nov 2006, 13:36
Let's face it, there's plenty enough things that he should be apologising for - and you don't have to go back 200 years . . .

Duff beer
27th Nov 2006, 13:41
Well said!

what about the other nations involved and the Africans who sold the slaves to the whites.

Wyler
27th Nov 2006, 14:13
Just been watching all this crap on the TV. It really makes me angry when you see an African rep from one of these pressure groups demanding an apology and some kind of 'compensation'. Maybe if the compensation was a one way ticket back to the land of his/her ancestors, they might shut up. The chap this lunchtime was actually blaming Slavery for all the woes of the current day black population in this country. Bollox. Perhaps if they stopped playing the victim all the time things might change.

Slavery was evil, we all know it but should not have to keep beating ourselves up over it.

And another thing, you want to talk compensation then how about all the billions in aid poured into Africa over the last years.....and wasted on corruption and general skulduggery...eh.....eh......

Bah Humbug........:*

frostbite
27th Nov 2006, 14:36
Absolutely ridiculous, and just shows to what extent they have the pathetic media lapping at their heels.

Now, if he were to apologise for Iraq........ etc.

UL730
27th Nov 2006, 14:37
I have just emailed Jens Stoltenberg – the Prime Minister of Norway asking for an apology for the outrageous behavior of Norsemen particularly in 1050 AD. This group of individuals - pioneering the “shock and awe” warfare principal - dramatically enslaved our rural communities in NE England.

I was just talking about this in the pub last night. The devastating effects they had on local farmers, virgins and our proud manufacturing bases – was catastrophic and has lasted through the generations and is responsible for so many of our current woes.

We need an apology Mr Stoltenberg

ORAC
27th Nov 2006, 14:47
And a few bottles of that Linie aquavit.....

Grayfly
27th Nov 2006, 14:53
[QUOTE=yakker;2989220]Should we ask the Italians to apologise for the Roman invasion, QUOTE]

Just what have the Romans ever done for us??

RogerIrrelevant69
27th Nov 2006, 14:53
Bloody right UL730. Their behaviour in Ireland was a bit iffy too so I think I'm well within my rights to go after them for some compensation - especially seeing as the Norwegians are so rich they can't figure out what to do with all their oil money....and as for the Romans, what did the Romans ever do for us?

Beat me to it by a nano second Grayfly but there was the aquaducts...

Davaar
27th Nov 2006, 15:14
We need an apology Mr Stoltenberg

UL730, I am shocked and dismayed by your moderation.

Develop some backbone, man! Tell those Norskies and Big Swedes you are sending back entire kraal loads of MacLeods and MacAuliffes. They came on assisted passages and have been nothing but a drag on the taxpayer these 1,200 years and more, unless maybe idle trouble-makers. One cannot even say they were taking jobs from our lads. Fat chance, that crowd of wasters.

tony draper
27th Nov 2006, 15:20
Yer load of old huggy fluff bollix,the slave trade had existed for thousands of years before we took it over,we just dragged it into the 18 century is all, we modernised it, found new markets,got rid of half the staff,downsized it,made it more efficient a sit were.
:uhoh: :rolleyes:

UL730
27th Nov 2006, 15:45
One has to be slow and purposeful – dealing with Norwegians – Mr Davaar. A full frontal assault is not productive. The lawyer's approach has to be the way – first a tangential admission of guilt – then the compo and restoration.

One is guided by their great playwright – Ibsen and if you remember from his masterpiece – Ghosts – when Osvald tells his mother that he is suffering from syphilis – it transpires he did not contract this from his profligacy in Paris rather he inherited it from his father. And who invented penicillin – the cure – the English.

We need to be subtle and convoluted in our quest for admission and then prosecute with alacrity. Hold some absolution for their sins but justly demand what we are rightly owed.

Standard Noise
27th Nov 2006, 15:48
Instead of apologising for the slave trade 200 years ago, why doesn't he put more energy into the modern day phenomena of "sex slavery", a great deal of which is taking place in the UK now.
Yet again Bliar goes 'headline grabbing' rather than doing something constructive. Still, there'll be another useless PM along in a minute.......:ugh: :ugh:

TBirdFrank
27th Nov 2006, 15:55
Oh how 20th century you dinosaurs are!!!!

Were you not listening to Radio Five Live when an earnest obviously well educated descendant of one of these families expalined how he was suffering from................




ready for it..............






I know you will like it..................





"Post Slavery Traumatic Syndrome"



I kid you not - nearly crashed the old Escort I do my commuting in - PSTS EH?? - Yeah Right!!

- Now The Djormans bombed me Granny, Bonnie Prince Charlie sacked Macclesfield before he gave up at Derby and as for those Yorkie buggers, see all, hear all, sup all, say nowt - and they are still doing it!

Who's going to apologise first!

Get over it - it stopped two hundred years ago - if you are so concerned for your people, get out there - and after you have stopped them using their resources to shoot each other, teach them how to keep a bit of basic technology going, so that they can possibly feed each other better - that's more important than handwringing over something that happened two centuries ago!

boogie-nicey
27th Nov 2006, 16:10
Sactamonious Git (Tony Blair)! Wrapping himself up in the usual "look at me I'm carrying the burden of the world on my shoulders"... crap.

He has nothing to do with slavery and if so then they'll be a very long line of other things he could apologise for on behalf of previous British Governments and members of the Aristocracy. The mere fact that the nasty dealings of the 18th-20th century caption of the British empire is mysteriously missing from history books and the media as whole should prompt him to deal with that too if he's so apologetic. The fact is most people have moved on from what happened in the past, put it down to experience and endeavour not to repeat such errors again. The US and Vietnam for example, UK and Germany ... just move on and progress for a better life for all.

I full heartedly agree that the usual bigmouths will appear on TV and throughout media coverage blaming their modern day plight on slavery, we all know that doesn't add up. Entire nations strive to recovery from conflict/war within a generation or two so why is slavery still such a variable for apparent social injustices today? It isn't, it's just an excuse to deflect the blame for personal weakness and wrong doings today on some historical fact.... the usual "My Daddy didn't buy me a pony so I turned out like this", do me a favour and get a life.

Millions of immigrants hit the harbours of New York, Southampton, Liverpool, etc and started with nothing not even an inviting smile from the natives. Yet they have turned it around BIG time and at the same don't bear a grudge against anyone.

However Tony is no doubt laughing behind the scenes knowing that his latest gimmick has worked so well. Like a bone thrown to a dog the public have jumped for it again and got themselves chasing their tails over something that is nowhere near a priority over the immediate issues we're facing. It's not Tony (deceipt is his natural game), I blame so much of this stupidity on some parts of the public that lap it all up. Tony is so clever and scheming he should be teaching this at the Royal Artillery College, Sandhurst: How to setup a rearguard action when you don't have a leg left to stand on.

Dear me.

Grayfly
27th Nov 2006, 16:29
I decided to do some serious research into the apology/non apology debate, so obviously went to the Beeb website. Not for them dumbing down of the issues, no wishy washy sentiment, just plain facts.....however......the 12 year olds are at it again..below is straight from the 'News' site
Were members of your family affected by slavery? If you have a story you'd like to share with us you can do so using the form below:
Bit like the ads for claims lawyers on afternoon TV!!

TBirdFrank
27th Nov 2006, 16:36
So what bad news is going to be swept under the carpet today whilst we are all apologising for events of two hundred years ago, and we had never heard of - for instance

Electricity
Gas
Mains Water
X Rays
Penicillin

and a lot of other things that we should no doubt be apologisng for

Loki
27th Nov 2006, 16:44
For some reason, someone somewhere has decided we in this country need to feel bad about ourselves.

I`ve decided to adopt a contrary position.

BlooMoo
27th Nov 2006, 16:46
Yeah, and we really dragged our heels over getting rid of it too...

Timeline of abolition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Timeline_of_the_abolition_of_slavery)

tiggerific_69
27th Nov 2006, 16:50
cant he apologise for one of the many things he's cocked up???

Standard Noise
27th Nov 2006, 16:51
For some reason, someone somewhere has decided we in this country need to feel bad about ourselves.
Oh dear, it seems Asgard is not a paradise after all!;)

So does this mean that my family can expect an apology and compo from those nasty Froggy papists who chased us away 250 years ago?
Uh hang on, that'll leave us open to claims that we would have to apologise to the natives whose land King William helped us purloin in Ulstersome time later.
Oh what a mess.:uhoh:

C130 Techie
27th Nov 2006, 17:02
Pathetic! Predictable of BLiar and the media circus but non the less pathetic!

ORAC
27th Nov 2006, 17:13
Us Irish peasants never oppressed anyone. We were picked on by that bloke Cromwell. :{

Wholigan
27th Nov 2006, 17:17
None of what I write below goes any way towards justifying what was an abhorrent trade in slaves in which we were involved from the 1600s to the 1800s, but I feel a few points need to be made.

Ancient Greeks practised slavery as far back as 1600 BC.

Other ancient Mediterranean cultures had slaves from as early as 4 BC.

The Romans enslaved entire populations of countries. In Rome, the number of slaves outnumbered the Romans.

The slaves of the above were Greeks, Africans, Germans, Gauls, Celts, Jews, Arabs, Franks, Irish, Anglo-Saxons, south Europeans (if I continued I’d run out of page space).

The Israelites were enslaved by the Egyptians.

The Vikings captured and enslaved their opponents from around 790 AD. Most of these slaves were from Europe.

The slave trade from East Africa to Arabia was dominated by Arab and African traders in the coastal cities, predating the European transatlantic slave trade by hundreds of years. The Moors raided many countries’ coastal areas to take slaves from 8 BC. Arab, Indian, and Oriental traders were involved in the capture and transport of slaves northward across the Sahara desert and the Indian Ocean region into Arabia and the Middle East, Persia, and the Indian subcontinent.

In "Britain", the Cromwellians enslaved Irish Catholics. Many of these were transported to the British West Indies.

Many Slavic males were taken away from their homes and families and enlisted into special soldier classes of the army of the Ottoman Empire from the 14th century.

In the 15th and 16th centuries slaves were imported from Europe to North Africa. Slave-taking persisted into the 19th century when Barbary pirates would capture ships and enslave the crew. In all, about 1.5 million Europeans were transported to the Barbary Coast. The trade was run by expelled Moors and the slaving expeditions were often captained by Europeans with North African crews.

Prior to the 16th century, the bulk of slaves exported from Africa were shipped from East Africa to the Arabian peninsula. Arab slave traders differed from European traders in that they conducted raiding expeditions themselves. They also differed in that their market greatly preferred the purchase of female slaves over male slaves.

The United Kingdom, Holland, the Arab world and Africa all conspired to increase the slave trade during the 16th century. This trade was not only in black Africans and West Indians, but in Asian people too (in particular into the Dutch colony of South Africa).

The first recorded slaves in the United States, in 1619, were twenty Africans brought by a Dutch soldier and sold to the English colony of Jamestown, Virginia as indentured servants.

Oddly enough, the centuries old endemic slave trade in Africa was eventually stopped by Africa’s European conquerors.

The Atlantic slave trade peaked in the late 18th century, when the largest number of slaves were captured on raiding expeditions into the interior of West Africa. These expeditions were typically carried out by coastal African kingdoms who traded their captives with European traders.

There were slaves in mainland France, but the institution was never fully authorized there. However, slavery was vitally important in France's Caribbean possessions. Napoleon sent troops to the Caribbean in 1802 to try to re-establish slavery.

The Nazi regime made extensive use of slave labour. So did the Soviets, right up to 1960 or even later.

North Korea still sends its convicts to slave labour camps.

Slavery persists in Africa. Children are enslaved. A family may be punished for an offense by having to turn over a virgin female to serve as a sex slave to the offended family. Young virgin girls are given as slaves in traditional shrines and are used sexually by the priests in addition to providing free labour for the shrine. Slavery continues as part of ongoing civil wars.

During the colonial period, slavery was a mainstay of the Brazilian economy, especially in mining and sugar cane production. Brazil obtained 37% of all African slaves traded. The average life span of a slave was eight years. Brazil was the last nation in the Western Hemisphere to abolish slavery. In 2004 the government acknowledged to the United Nations that at least 25,000 Brazilians work under conditions "analogous to slavery". The top anti-slavery official in Brasilia puts the number of modern slaves at 50,000.

Though a formalised slave trade has not existed in the Indian sub-continent, “bonded labour” existed for centuries in different forms. Under these practices, generations could be forced into unfree labour to repay debts. Arab slave traders brought slaves as early as the first century AD from Africa.

China has had an almost unlimited workforce of cheap labor, and the economy has naturally relied on a system of serfdom or slavery or both.

In Japan, slavery was, for most of its history, indigenous, since the export and import of slaves was restricted by Japan being a group of islands. Japan abolished slavery early in its history (around 1600). However, during World War 2, the Japanese military used hundreds of thousands of civilians and prisoners of war as forced labour on projects such as the Burma Railway.

Indigenous slaves existed and probably still exist in Korea.

In traditional Maori society, prisoners of war became slaves, unless released, ransomed or tortured.

Children as young as two years old are allegedly still used for slavery as child camel jockeys across the Arab countries of the Middle East. Though strict laws have been introduced recently the use of children still continues in the far flung areas and during secret night time races.

Slavery has existed, in one form or another, through the whole of human history. So, too, have movements to free large or distinct groups of slaves.

So ------- when the Greeks, Norwegians, Danes, Romans, Germans, Egyptians, all Arab countries, Turks, French, Indians, Africans, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians, Maoris and many others apologise for their part in the slave trade over the past 4000 years or so, and the descendants of the slaves apologise for the involvement of their race’s forbears in the enslavement of Europeans and others, and also formally thank such people as Moses, James Somersett, Joseph Knight, the government that brought in the Slavery Abolition Act of 23 August 1833, Victor Hughes, Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, Frederick Douglass, John Brown and hundreds of others responsible for the abolition of slavery ----- that will be time enough for the UK government to apologise for its part in the trade.

Loki
27th Nov 2006, 17:26
Standard Noise

Did you read both sentences of my post?

(and no, Asgard isn`t /wasn`t a paradise....it was one of the realms of the Nordic Cosmos)

Polikarpov
27th Nov 2006, 18:15
Not entirely surprising on this forum not to find a single pro-apologist I guess, but c'mon, one of you, step up!

:E

At least Tone didn't actually apologise. Why break a habit eh?

tilewood
27th Nov 2006, 18:26
If I were black and my ancestors had been shipped over to America 200 years ago, slavery would be of interest to me.

But when I switch on the TV news and look at Darfur, Zimbabwe, Rwanda,
Angola etc., etc., maybe I would think perhaps I am lucky after all!!

Get over it and move on!!

Meanwhile our Tone is doing what he does best.......bring British politics, and the role of Prime
Minister into disrepute!

Bus429
27th Nov 2006, 18:46
I heard a (black) female prospective Conservative candidate on Radio 4 last month lambast some hand-wringing liberal tw:mad: for saying Blair should apologise for slavery. Sure, slavery was - is - wrong but his apologising means bugger all (and is insincere, to boot).
Blair is a bol:mad: ck brain.

Davaar
27th Nov 2006, 19:24
One has to be slow and purposeful – dealing with Norwegians And who invented penicillin – the cure – the English.
.

Oh very well, then, if you insist, UL. I can see you have experience. Another thing is that Norskies are all bigger than I am, but the MacLeods have shrunk a bit. Same with the MacAuliffes. Still, I can live with your methods.

Now, as to the English and penicillin ..... up to a point:

Quote:

Sir Alexander Fleming was born at Lochfield near Darvel in Ayrshire, Scotland on August 6th, 1881. He attended Louden Moor School, Darvel School, and Kilmarnock Academy before moving to London ......... He named the active substance penicillin.

Unquote.

Vmike
27th Nov 2006, 19:30
Notice his wording - he didn't apologise for slavery, he said it was a bad thing that it had happened. The difference being that if he apologised, he - or at least the British Government, and by extension, we taxpayers - could be found legally responsible and therefore liable to pay compensation. Using the form of words that he did, there is no chance of that - he is a lawyer after all!

It's still unbelievably pathetic that this should even be considered though. There must be more important things for the Great Leader to be pontificating about, for Chrissake:mad:

tony draper
27th Nov 2006, 19:56
This is idiocy in the extreme,the men who carried out the slave trade were men of their time,they regarded their own countrymen below them on the social scale as little better than animals to be worked to death if necessary, just over a hundred years ago Englishmen and women were being sold into virtual agricultural slavery for life at hiring fairs,children forced to work in mills from ten years of age ect ect
If we start down this stupid path of apologising for our history there will be no end to it,few nations if any can look back at their past deeds without sin when filtered through a modern set of moral norms, regarding certain groups of people as property was the norm then.
:suspect:

frostbite
27th Nov 2006, 20:03
At least it didn't get a mention on the BBC 6 o'clock News!

That's not to say it won't be on the 10 o'clock, because some Downing St wonk has phoned to complain.

tony draper
27th Nov 2006, 20:19
Well it was on the morning news,but it might have been sky new one was listening too, one would be a tad supprised if the Baghdad Broadcasting Company didn't carry it, tiz the kind of hand wringing loonacy the BBC fluffists would wholeheartedly support.
:rolleyes:

GrumpyOldFart
27th Nov 2006, 20:23
It's his parents who should be sorry - for not using an effective contraceptive.

And what's so new about Bliar being sorry anyway? He's been a sorry excuse for a prime minister since day one.

Al Fakhem
28th Nov 2006, 02:12
I second Duff Beer on this one. The slaves were actually caught inland by natives and sold on. In fact, a large number of slave traders were Arabs.

Doesn't make the whole trade any better, but Blair should know better than to pervert history.:yuk:

ShyTorque
28th Nov 2006, 02:23
Judging by my tax return for this year, slavery is still rife in UK.

I demand an apology from Tony Blair!

Blacksheep
28th Nov 2006, 02:43
just over a hundred years ago Englishmen and women were being sold into virtual agricultural slavery for life at hiring fairsLess than a hundred tony. My Grandfather was the son of a farmer, was well educated for the time and spoke fluent Latin. Nevertheless he was reduced to participating in "The Hirings" in Stockton High Street in the 1930's. Men met around the market cross to bid for labouring jobs, working for food not money. The good reasons for the Jarrow marches and the General Strike are largely suppressed in our history books, but its as well to remember that many working men in Britain were reduced to virtual slavery as little as seventy years ago. Stockton has a photgraphic history site - "Picture Stockton" and you can see images of some of the living and working conditions there. Living in 'the yards' and working for food was the lot for so many. Those who could, including many of my relatives, sought passage to the USA, Canada and New Zealand as 'bonded' labourers who worked to pay for the passage before started a new life there from nothing.

A similar situation existed all across Europe, yet we've dragged ourselves out the mire without too much trauma or demands for apologies.

RogerIrrelevant69
28th Nov 2006, 11:24
http://newsbiscuit.com/article/descendents-of-slave-trade-apologise-for-rap

UL730
28th Nov 2006, 18:08
.... and who's going to apologise for eating all our missionaries :uhoh:

WG774
28th Nov 2006, 18:14
If GB's politicians and Royal family want to make an apology, they should apologise to the descendants of the Caribbean regiments who fought for GB in World War I.

To suggest that the soldiers were treated abhorrently would be a gross understatement and practically as many died being shipped over to the battlefields as died in the trenches.

The Caribbean soldiers volunteered to fight for no other reason other than solidarity with Britain and they were treated appallingly, with a needless loss of life outside of the battlefield.

Capt. Queeg
28th Nov 2006, 18:20
...when the Greeks, Norwegians, Danes, Romans, Germans, Egyptians, all Arab countries, Turks, French, Indians, Africans, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians, Maoris and many others apologise for their part in the slave trade over the past 4000 years or so, and the descendants of the slaves apologise for the involvement of their race’s forbears in the enslavement of Europeans and others, and also formally thank such people as Moses, James Somersett, Joseph Knight, the government that brought in the Slavery Abolition Act of 23 August 1833, Victor Hughes, Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, Frederick Douglass, John Brown and hundreds of others responsible for the abolition of slavery ----- that will be time enough for the UK government to apologise for its part in the trade.
Well someone has to go first, why shouldn't it be the poms......?? :rolleyes: With all their claims of civilisation and superiority, shouldn't they should be the first to recognise and apologise for their atrociously uncivilised behaviour...??? :p

While you're at it, please have Tony Bliar apologise for what the poms did in Australia, you know, the Stolen Generation and all that. You blokes started this place, it was your fault but for some reason everyone expects Howard to apolgise for it......:rolleyes:

modtinbasher
28th Nov 2006, 18:43
Is B liar going to say how sorry he is for releasing all the murdering IRA thugs and paying off the 2 intrepid MPs who refuse to swear allegiance to the Monarch?

tilewood
28th Nov 2006, 19:05
Well someone has to go first, why shouldn't it be the poms......?? :rolleyes: With all their claims of civilisation and superiority, shouldn't they should be the first to recognise and apologise for their atrociously uncivilised behaviour...??? :p

While you're at it, please have Tony Bliar apologise for what the poms did in Australia, you know, the Stolen Generation and all that. You blokes started this place, it was your fault but for some reason everyone expects Howard to apolgise for it......:rolleyes:


We may have started it, but the Aussies are thriving on it! Get over it!!

Capt. Queeg
28th Nov 2006, 19:07
Hey come on, lots of poms down here thriving too, you know.......! :p