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View Full Version : Wittering 5 mile runway -- is it true?


QDMQDMQDM
27th Nov 2006, 10:11
In his book, Winkle Brown says that Wittering had a 5 mile runway, especially equipped with resue crews and equipment for returning bombers in trouble. They could clear the wreckage of a Lancaster in minutes, apparently.

But did it really have a five mile runway? That's phenomenal and must make it one of the longest runways ever.

BOAC
27th Nov 2006, 10:44
I don't know, but there should be signs of it on Google Earth if it did. Could have done with it during my 'static hovers' during Harrier training:)

Midland 331
27th Nov 2006, 12:04
25.000+ feet? 27R/09L at LHR is 10,000-ish..IIRC

I don't think even NBO or HRE are that long...

From my days chugging up and down MME-LGW on a shed, I seem to recall that Cottesmore's is longer - there was always the chance to compare the two when passing overhead. There was also plenty of time to watch the trains on the east coast line that appeared to be overtaking us.... :-)

r

airborne_artist
27th Nov 2006, 12:20
Wittering is listed as having 9,000'/2760m - it's here (http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=52.611048~-0.481811&style=a&lvl=14&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000) on Local Live - and it is hard to see that it could have been longer, except perhaps at the W end of the rw, but only by a small amount.

Tiger_mate
27th Nov 2006, 12:44
I thought that Manston was the runway geared up (pardon the pun) for aircraft without gear!! If not the longest, it must surely be the widest runway in the UK.

There was a time when foam covered runways were available at the touch of a buttone, but not these days.

dakkg651
27th Nov 2006, 12:44
WB must have meant Woodbridge which along with Manston and Carnaby were built as emergency landing strips for damaged aircraft and also acted as Master Diversion Airfields with FIDO. Woodbridge had a 3000m hard surface with 500m grass undershoot/overshoot. This still is only a total of 4km or about half of what Winkle quotes in his autobio.

Anyone know of any longer runways at that time?

BEagle
27th Nov 2006, 12:48
Well, it's almost true...

There used to be 2 grass aerodromes; these were Wittering and nearby Collyweston. In 1943 it was decided to join the two together; this required some tree-felling and ditch filling, but ultimately provided a 3 mile grass runway. This stretched from the Great North Road all the way to Collyweston village.

It was used in the war to recover 'lame ducks' - and by trials organistaions after the war. I think the infamous Me163 conducted various (unpowered!) skid landing trials at the time.

The 9000 ft 'V-bomber' runway was built over the 3-mile grass runway in the 1950s.

As for Collyweston, well that's where we went for certain 'Special Weapons' courses. Imagine the joy of listening to a Chief Technician explaining the Pauli Exclusion Principle to you at 0830 when you've got a thumping hangover.....

QDMQDMQDM
27th Nov 2006, 13:17
Brown says it was 5 miles, shortened to 3 miles after the war.

jabberwok
27th Nov 2006, 15:31
Bedford

Was RAE Bedford (EGVW). When Thurleigh was initially being developed as a research centre after the war, the original plan included a 5-mile runway extending out to Little Staughton and with its maintenance area close to Twinwoods Farm. Defence cuts put a stop to all that, but just South of Thurleigh a narrow country lane still suddenly splits into two carriageways as it passes through a dip where a taxiway to Twinwoods was due to have passed across!


From UK Airfield Guide (http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/06airfields/UK/uk.htm)

Phileas Fogg
27th Nov 2006, 16:01
I thought that Manston was the runway geared up (pardon the pun) for aircraft without gear!! If not the longest, it must surely be the widest runway in the UK.
There was a time when foam covered runways were available at the touch of a buttone, but not these days.


Manston, before defence cuts, had a foam facility for aircraft without gear, there was another airfield also, I recall it may have been Leeming, that had foam.

Manston's runway is 9000ft x 200ft, the widest runways in the country, at 300ft, are St Mawgan and, before they closed it, RAE Bedford also at 300ft.

I can't imagine why a Lancaster, capable of grass field performances, would ever need 5 miles of tarmac to stop, it didn't go fast enough in the first instance :)

MikeJ
27th Nov 2006, 16:55
St Mawgan is quoted now as 87m wide.
Filton was widened specially for the Brabazon, and is now 91m wide.

BOAC
27th Nov 2006, 16:59
St Mawgan is quoted now as 87m wide. - in a Chipmunk I've seen it 87m long......................:)

dakkg651
27th Nov 2006, 19:22
- in a Chipmunk I've seen it 87m long......................:)

So have I in a Chippie at Greenham. Shortest runway I ever landed on - but the width - wow!

BEagle
27th Nov 2006, 19:49
Whilst training for my PIFG on ULAS many years ago, we were actually refused an approach at USAF Greenham Common....

The reason? Noise abatement...:rolleyes:

So we went to RAF Andover instead for an ACR7 approach.

jumpseater
27th Nov 2006, 20:07
'I can't imagine why a Lancaster, capable of grass field performances, would ever need 5 miles of tarmac to stop, it didn't go fast enough in the first instance'

Manston and Woodbridge were both emergency landing grounds for aircraft in distress on operations in WWII. Hence they were wider and longer than the norm so that they could accept multiple diversions and potential accidents. They were located at the 'nearest' suitable locations to enemy territory, hence Manston on the Kent peninsular and Woodbridge on the Suffolk coastline.
Longest current runways off the top of my head are Heathrow, Gatwick and Macrihanish is up there very close to the top of the pile too. Aurora obviously not being STOL:suspect:

ZH875
27th Nov 2006, 20:46
This demonstrates the approximate distance of a 5 mile grass strip, giving a maximum distance to the A1. Pick any angle within the shaded area for the runway direction.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/ZH875/Wit.jpg

Given the position of the River Welland, a 5 mile grass runway does not look feasible.

REF
27th Nov 2006, 22:46
I though Machrihanish / Cambeltown had one of the longest in the UK.

Brize is also quite long as well.

BEagle
28th Nov 2006, 05:37
As I wrote (after having researched it), Wittering/Collyweston had a 3 mile grass runway at the end of the war, not a 5 mile runway!

Brize is 10000 ft, by the way. As one of nigel's 747 crew discovered when they used the Thiefrow figures (12000 ft) instead of the Brize figures for a reduced thrust take-off back in the early 80s. Rotation occurred rather close to the far end, I was told.

spekesoftly
28th Nov 2006, 11:54
Brown says it was 5 miles, shortened to 3 miles after the war.

A look at This Link (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:ARSh9yCcvhwJ:www.raf.mod.uk/history/wittering2.html+Collyweston+runway&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=6) confirms BEagle's figure of 3 miles in 1943, shortened to 2 miles during 1945 - 46.

What isn't clear is whether this refers to nautical or statute miles, which would obviously make a considerable difference to the runway lengths in feet, although not enough to explain WB's figures.

possel
28th Nov 2006, 12:25
Is that the Little Staunton near RAF Thurleigh/RAE Bedford as that is the only reference I can find to Little Staunton.

As Wittering/Collyweston is bounded by the A43, A47 and A1, I estimate that a runway of 3 miles maximum is theoretically possible, the runway would have a height change of some 60 feet over the westerly 2 miles.

You mean Little Staughton

class a
28th Nov 2006, 12:51
I believe the worlds longest is Edwards Airforce base at 7.5 miles

Cpt_Pugwash
28th Nov 2006, 13:23
Elvington, near York, has 10,152 ft of runway plus 49 acres of concrete hardstanding. The display at the YAM claims it is visible from the Space Shuttle , so should be a good spot on Google earth.

BEagle
28th Nov 2006, 15:24
The world's longest is at Groom Lake, surely? In Area 51.

class a
28th Nov 2006, 15:44
Groom lake 5.15 miles

Croqueteer
28th Nov 2006, 17:59
:hmm: When gliding at Sharjah in the sixties, we auto-towed with a Nissan Patrol using commercial fencing wire pulling the T21 up to 2000ft, which used up about 5 miles of bundoo. Does that count?

ZH875
28th Nov 2006, 20:29
You mean Little Staughton

from:http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/TimeCapsule/1460CCF24DD6487B85EC4CB7F14DAC78_DFD678F1CBDD4863ADFC9C0577E 49E63.htm

So I came to find myself at Little Staunton, near St.Neots, which was a Pathfinder Force bomber station and where, in addition to almost daily trips on test flights in Lancasters following their servicing or repair, we worked in the bomb bay assisting with the bombing up of aircraft before they flew off on raids.

This was found via a web search, maybe I should have looked on http://www.controltowers.co.uk/L/LittleStaughton.htm, eitherway, Wittering could not have had a 5 mile strip.

jabberwok
29th Nov 2006, 09:31
Checking a further source shows that the July 1944 published runway length for Wittering was 5020yds - 15060ft - 2.48nm - 2.85st.m.

As mentioned earlier a five mile runway plan was under study for Bedford although it may be that other airfields were earmarked for similar development.

forget
29th Nov 2006, 09:52
I think it very unlikely that Wittering ever had a five mile strip, grass or otherwise. The A43 is the limiting factor. Not just because it's always been a major road but, immediately west of the A43, the land drops into a valley. Three miles shown here. The road at top right is the A1.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/Wittering.jpg

teeteringhead
29th Nov 2006, 14:51
Elvington, near York, has 10,152 ft of runway ..ISTR that Elvers was planned as a Concord(e) diversion during flight testing, as at the time it was one of the few in UK that could have handled a brakeless Conc.

chevvron
2nd Dec 2006, 08:18
There were I believe, two plans for RAE Bedford, the aforementioned one of joining it to Little Staughton, and another joining it to Twinwoods Farm. The latter obviously got off the ground initially, hence the fact that the road just south of the old main gate at Thurleigh was routed through a cutting which the runway would then have been built over. I believe that's as far as it got though.
By the way, re Elvington; there were at least 8 runways of 10,000ft available for Conc; several were built for the SAC mission in the late '50s including Elvington, Bruntingthorpe, Fairford and Brize. I think Chelveston may have been another.

Speedpig
4th Dec 2006, 09:06
Ulyanovsk-Vostochny International Airport (Russia) at 16,404ft apparently the World's longest commercial runway, and Groom Lake is allegedly 27,000ft.
Who would know?

airborne_artist
4th Dec 2006, 09:28
Manston, before defence cuts, had a foam facility for aircraft without gear, there was another airfield also, I recall it may have been Leeming, that had foam.

Leeming was an MDA in the late 70s - I saw the foam kit there in 79.

WHBM
4th Dec 2006, 09:30
Looking at the aerial photograph and the OS map above you might think that the A47 has been diverted round a possible runway extension from the minor road The Drove. However I have a 1939 UK road atlas which shows that the road layout there was just the same pre-war, although it has been realigned both east and west of this point. The map also shows the minor roads which did once cross the ground where the Wittering runway is now, so pre-dates the construction of the field.

Brain Potter
4th Dec 2006, 19:51
Here's a better view - click on the dark panel to make it disappear.

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.605998&lon=-0.507226&z=15.2&r=0&src=msl

BTW - Look at the facilty just south of the A47.

Some former V bomber stations have a similar feature (Waddington, Honington) but others don't (Cottesmore, Scampton). I guess it's a bomb-dump but it's not like the grassed over bunkers found on all V-Force stations. Any thoughts?

forget
4th Dec 2006, 21:27
I've driven past it recently and I'm pretty sure it's a ex quarry/land fill site. Not at all connected with Wittering.

BYALPHAINDIA
4th Dec 2006, 22:53
What if any - are the Future plans for Wittering?

There is only 1 Harrier OCU SQN based there now, after 1/3/4 SQN's moved up the road to Cottesmore.

I pressume Wittering is the Relief Landing ground for Cottesmore.

I have passed the main entrance a few times, and the entrance is about 50ft from the A1!!


Regards.

chevvron
5th Dec 2006, 16:42
I was there for ATC camp back in '87. We did a NITEX in those woods just north of the A47 in line with the runway; there was a Hastings parked there then. We accessed this area along the perimeter airfield road; there is a public road parallel to part of the boundary (more like a cart track when I was there) but I did see the police interviewing people who stopped there.
The site mentioned south of the A47 definitely looks like a bomb dump to me.
If you move the map to 52. 42 N 000.34 W you will see the disused airfield of Woolfox Lodge, with the Bloohound Missile pads clearly visible; built to protect the Thor ICBMs at North Luffenham.

forget
6th Dec 2006, 08:25
The site mentioned south of the A47 definitely looks like a bomb dump to me.

As I may have said - It's a :mad: quarry/landfill. :{ :{ :{

http://www.peterborough.gov.uk/pdf/planning/mwpo/Map14.pdf

Gainesy
6th Dec 2006, 11:13
It is a bomb dump, or it was when I was stationed there.
Twas full of 1,000lb ers. The other, covered over, bomb dump, just to the south west of the runway is (or was) the RAF Armament Support Unit for servicing nuke warheads.

forget
6th Dec 2006, 12:22
Ooops. We're talking two different things here Gainsey. Thing you're talking about - bomb dump.

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.594687&lon=-0.513067&z=16.3&r=0&src=msl

Thing I'm talking about - quarry.
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.594034&lon=-0.483257&z=16.9&r=0&src=msl

:ugh:

gbh
7th Dec 2006, 09:08
Bomb dump currently up for public sale as 'secure storage area'!

Try also 52 44 03.2N 00 53 32.6W for missile launch blast walls at Melton Mowbray. This small part of our history sadly neglected and decaying.

Brain Potter
8th Dec 2006, 08:01
3 x Thor IRBM sites are more intact at North Luffenham:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.630863&lon=-0.5964&z=18.8&r=0&src=msl

but even worse at Hemswell:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.406804&lon=-0.579989&z=16.9&r=0&src=msl

Wader2
3rd Jul 2007, 11:47
It is a bomb dump, or it was when I was stationed there.
Twas full of 1,000lb ers. The other, covered over, bomb dump, just to the south west of the runway is (or was) the RAF Armament Support Unit for servicing nuke warheads.

There were three bomb dumps at Wittering. One was the SSA whose name escapes me, the one near the A47 was IIRC Colly Weston Great Wood and the other, SE of the SSA was Rogue Sale (again IIRC).

The one in the wood was indeed full of 1000lb HE and, I was told, were complete with the Exploder Pockets and would have made a fine source of explosive for anyone so inclined. It was also unguarded although it may have been alarmed.

Gainesy
5th Jul 2007, 10:33
One was the SSA whose name escapes me,

Special Storage Area = Buckets of Sunshine Sheds.:)

chevvron
6th Jul 2007, 08:26
Collyweston Great Wood?!! Bloddy hell me and my cadets did a NITEX there in 1987; when was it cleared? There was a Hastings there at the time I remember.