View Full Version : New Terminal In Dublin Goes Ahead
airbourne
5th Feb 2002, 22:14
On the back of new figures from Ryanair showing how much profit they made in the last quarter, comes the government go ahead for a new low cost terminal in Dublin. The bit I like is where the head of the report defends Aer Riantas landing charges!
The Government has approved the construction of a facility at Dublin Airport for low-cost operators. The Cabinet made the decision after considering an expert report on aviation strategy. Aer Rianta, who argued strongly against the plan, said that the proposal may not be the correct option.
Professor Rias Doganis was asked last year by the Government to review aviation policy in the light of the effects of 11 September on tourism. His report recommended the building of Pier D at Dublin Airport. It said that it should be run by Aer Rianta, despite an offer from Ryanair to construct the facility.
. .The report also rejects Ryanair's contention that high landing charges are discouraging it from expanding in Ireland.
. .Pier D is intended to be a quick turnaround facility. It would be used by Aer Lingus's smaller jets as well as by low-cost carriers like Ryanair.
. .However, the decision to proceed with Pier D will not necessarily please Aer Rianta. They have long argued that the facility made no commercial sense. Instead, they had proposed a €96m plan to improve facilities at Shannon and Cork.
. .Aer Rianta said in a statement that, while they welcomed the Doganis Report, the new Pier was not necessarily the best option. The airline's chairman, Noel Hanlon said that its design was five years' old, and did not meet current security and immigration standards.
Problem solved ...... but .....
Aer Rianta don't consider the proposed new terminal in Dublin to be the best option ......
Ryanair's views on landing charges ignored ....
charges in the new terminal will be identical to the existing airport charges ....
Aer Lingus will almost certainly be the biggest user of the new terminal ....
am I missing something?
why don't we start with the fact that it's a pier, not a terminal?
EIDW needs some work - but a new pier doesn't lose as many votes as a runway extension!
schwabn
6th Feb 2002, 00:21
Fact is, that Dublin Airport needs some serious work put into it. At the moment the whole thing is a disorganised malcoordinated mess which on top is a forever ongoing building site.
At this moment in time, the part handling Ryanair and Aer Lingus Commuter (the hexagonal bit)accounts for 55% of the total traffic. That to me suggests that somewhere along those lines Aer Rianta needs to get its backside in gear and push for improvements, regardless whether they be for FR's benefit or not.
They'd be best of knocking the whole thing down and starting again!! The new pier will be a step in the right direction but judging by the current situation it'll create more problems than it solves.
Chirpy Pilot
6th Feb 2002, 01:00
Unforntunately they neglected to say that the new terminal will be built in Galway. . .Dublin is on of the craziest places to taxi or wait for a stand. On a frequent basis the taxi time and holding at taxi points is in excess of our airbourne time, never mind trying to get GPU's, lost passengers etc. . .However, must not grumble Great night out, even though I am from the North
In keeping with it's business model, Ryanair should pull out of Dublin, and operate out of Shannon, which can be called 'Dublin South' in all company advertising.
C3 ..... you are absolutely right ..... and from what I know of Shannon the project would receive all the support it needed, if the "powers that be" decided that Shannon was to be the low cost hub
schwabn
6th Feb 2002, 01:27
Shifting operations to SNN has been discussed before and the general feeling was that there was no point in flying people to a place in the middle of nowhere that was only interesting 6 months of the year if that, only for them to then go to Dublin.
It would really be more beneficial for everyone to have a second airport in Dublin at Baldonnel. This has also been raised before but government is unlikely to take any action in view of this plan.
OK, I was being sarcastic, but only up to a point. SNN, (Dublin South ??), provided with a good rail link, not the disaster that's in place at the moment, would be a good option, and wouldn't be that different from some of the locations that they operate into in Europe at the moment.. .It would be cheaper to build, easier to expand and service, and would be well received by the population.
jongar
6th Feb 2002, 04:45
Its not how many people want to travel from Shannon to the rest of the world , its how many want to go to shannon. My understanding is a lot of friet does, but not the self loading type
"The airline's chairman, Noel Hanlon said that its design was five years' old, and did not meet current security and immigration standards."
Of course Mr Hanlon would know all about the needs of Immigration and security at Dublin airport, He is the plonker that currently is in charge of providing Immigration facilities at Dublin airport...and if you look at what is in operation in Pier "A" its a joke. How dare he try and say that facilities at the new Pier will not be adequate..his own organisation is unable or unwilling to provide proper facilites at the moment in Dublin Airport. Where else in Europe are arriving and departing passengers mixed..along with Domestic, Continental and British Isles passengers . . <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
I have no doubt that if you asked a million passengers what they thought of flying out of Dublin I am sure the you would get a very simple answer!!!! (from about nine hundred and ninety nine thousand) and it would not be printable on this BB ....... of course using Shannon as an alternative to Dublin would involve much improved access infrastructure ....... High speed, modern rail links spring to mind ....... I'm sure that if every village in the country can get a one hundred thousand dollar stone carving courtesy of the EU then finance could be provided for a really viable upgraded high speed rail system - most of the routes exist already, albeit many in disuse ..... remember, the whole country is only about 500 miles by 200! ...... as for Shannon being so unatractive at present ....... who the heck are the current two and a half million pax's that presently use it? .....
theRolfe2
6th Feb 2002, 20:21
"as for Shannon being so unatractive at present ....... who the. . heck are the current two and a half million pax's that presently use it? ."
Probably poor unfortunates who want to go to Dublin and were herded off the plane as part of the infamous "shannon stopover".
As a general rule you can spot *voluntary* users of Shannon fairly easily - The're the ones wearing plaid trousers, "Erin Go Bragh" hats, and are loudly commenting on how green the countryside is compared to [insert widwestern state here].
The other people hanging around the terminal are sulking passengers who've just spent 20 minutes getting themselves (and all their handluggage) off a packed 767 and will now have to spend another 20 minutes getting back on.
Apparently this ludicrous charade is supposed to create jobs in SNN. In practice it costs jobs in other parts of the country because the first experience would-be investors have of Ireland is been herded around Shannon airport at 7 in the morning for no good reason before continuing to DUB, which is within commuting distance by American standards. This raises questions about whether Ireland is such a good place to do business in after all....
theRolfe
BillyFish2
6th Feb 2002, 21:13
TheflyingIrishman,
I entirely agree with your comment:
"Shifting operations to SNN has been discussed before and the general feeling was that there was no point in flying people to a place in the middle of nowhere that was only interesting 6 months of the year if that, only for them to then go to Dublin."
Indeed I made the exact same points some months ago on the thread you are talking about but was shot down by 'Airbourne' and 'Maxalt' for being unpatriotic and a fool. I think the fact that I alluded to the fact that outside the greater Dublin area (wherever the hell that ends these days) the population is a bit thin rather annoyed 'Airbourne' in particular. Well actually it's very thin indeed. Aaah sure doesn't reality suck as our American cousins would say.
For other some of the other contributors, by no stretch of the imagination could or will SNN ever be considered Dublin South, Cork North or anything else with or without trains that travel 200kph. It is over 200km from Dublin and 120km from Cork (and who cares from Limerick!).
Quite right too about Baldonnel. Wasted top notch resource sitting there doing bog all for about 23 hours out of every 24.
[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: BillyFish2 ]</p>
who am I too argue with THEROLFE2 and BILLYFISH2 (I wonder if they are related?) ...... but lets look forward to the future they portray ..... more and more of what you have in Dublin airport today (does anyone really think that a pier is going to solve anything?) as for Dublin city its self ....... practically gridlocked on surface transport and rapidly becoming the most expensive city in Europe to live and operate in (perhaps even in the world) ...... good luck "T" and "B" if the future is in your hands
ps ..... for the record, this is what I had in mind re the rail link .....
Modern Rail structure to provide links from west of Dublin … Wexford ….Cork …. Sligo and Galway ……. Limerick ….. all through to Shannon ……. Much of the basic links already exist …
Park and Ride facilities (out of town) at these major sites and some enroute with good security and reasonable charges …… my estimate is that no one, anywhere in the country, need be more than say 30 to 40 minutes away from these park and ride points
Modern rolling stock with attractive on-board facilities …… frequent and reliable service ….
It would take guts , Imagination , determination and would it work? …… of course it would! ……..
….. and could the Irish afford it? ….. well there’s a proposal right now to build a soccer stadium for between 500 million and 1,000 million dollars ……. nice !!!! ..... Why not build a 200 million dollar stadium (like the Welsh) and put the rest into this project …….
bit unrealistic expecting rail to SNN, since IR can't get it's sh!t together on Cork-Midleton-Youghal or even Cork-Blarney, where the rail and stations already exist! The problem isn't the rails, it's commissioning trains, plus a driver union that can only have got its tactics from BeCA...
theRolfe2
7th Feb 2002, 00:44
"who am I too argue with THEROLFE2 and BILLYFISH2 (I wonder if they are related?) ...... but lets. .look forward to the future they portray ....."
FYI 'theRolfe2' exists because I put in an invalid email address when I created 'theRolfe'....
I agree with your ideas about a functioning rail system. It's not my fault that Dublin is playing catch-up on the infrastructure front, but there is no reason why DUB couldn't be a perfectly nice airport if it was run properly. Airports also benefit from economies of scale and network effects - one big airport is more useful than two small ones. The 5M population of Ireland will only justify one big airport.
There seems to be some weird idea that air travellers can be "funneled" to different airports to suit the needs of the local communities. While forcing my flight to land at SNN may make the locals feel better it drives me nuts. I would sooner go via LHR and change planes than go thrugh the SNN saga.
theRolfe2
ROLFE2 ..... just to reassure you about flying direct to Dublin from the U.S. ...... 50% of all U.S. flights land in Dublin first so you have no need to do the LHR route ...... as far as us having different ideas don't worry ... we are in good company ......
Tony Ryan (the Tony) wanted to develop Baldonnel as an alternative to the existing Dublin airport,some years ago ..... "No Way Jose!!!". .(hope thats the right spelling)
The McEvaddy's (Omega etc) wanted to build and operate a new terminal at Dublin ..... "No Way Jose!!!"
Ryanair wanted to build and operate there own terminal at the existing airport ..... "No Way Jose!!!"
and finally the Irish Airport Authority wanted to develop Shannon as a low cost hub and all they got was a new pier in Dublin
mind you ..... they will probably get a billion dollar soccer stadium ...... oh well ...lol
theRolfe2
7th Feb 2002, 03:50
I know all about the SNN stopover as I am a frequent victim of it. I resent having to arrange my scheules around flights that don't stop at SNN.
If the UK government were to announce that 50% of incoming traffic from the US had to stop at Cardiff so the people of wales would have good access to air travel everybody would think they were crazy. Yet when it happens in Ireland nobody finds it odd.
theRolfe
liam lord
7th Feb 2002, 04:08
OK can I put up a little bit of logic here?
What % of Ireland's population live in DUB?. .What % of Ireland's population work in DUB?. .What % of Ireland's business in conducted from DUB?
Now what % of Ireland's airport infrastructure is in/near DUB?
A second (or third) airport for DUB anyone?
brain fade
7th Feb 2002, 05:15
I'd just like to say that the Irish's plan to do a TUNNEL from DUB down to the docks is a brilliant proposition. Its already well under way while we Brits (or should that be Scots) can't even join GLA or EDI to the rail network despite rail lines right beside the airports. <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
There was once a famous politician who said ....
"we will see Hares running up and down the Runways of Shannon but nothing else"
This was about 50 years ago and fortunately he was wrong .... ask the crew of the 777 that came in with one engine a few weeks ago ..... or the Galaxy with smoke on the flight deck or the Concorde crew that literally ran out of fuel on the Taxiway after blowing an engine over the Atlantic ......
Rolfe2 ...... I wonder if you can beat the thousand plus flights I've made into Ireland? ..... I love the place, Shannon and all
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: hobie ]</p>
theRolfe2
7th Feb 2002, 19:54
"Rolfe2 ...... I wonder if you can beat the thousand plus flights I've made into Ireland? ..... I love the place, Shannon and all"
I'm a long way short of that! SNN is unquestionably important and growth should be encouraged, but not by forcing people to land there. My solution to the problem is that instead of demanding that airlines stop at SNN the Irish government replace the SNN stopover rule with a "single market" rule - any US airline that flies into DUB will have to provide connecting flights to other irish airports at a nominal charge. The US airlines will promptly enter into a code sharing agreement with an irish carrier who will funnel traffic to and from DUB. While I *loathe* the stopover I'd be willing to pay 10 quid extra to subsidize anyone who has the urge to continue on to SNN if it would mean I got to Dublin on time.
The key thing here is whether the defenders of SNN want easy access to US markets or big airplanes landing at SNN? If they want the former they are going to have to accept the SNN's stranglehold has to end sooner or later. If they want the latter they should lease SNN to the USAF!
theRolfe
[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: theRolfe2 ]</p>