QANTAS - Australia II

[qcc2]

GD comes out swinging and takes on the aviation industry.there is no doubt he is right in ALL those issues he mentioned, but he does not answer question related to pilots/cabin crew's conditions &more jobs going offshore and more importantly how are they going to pay for all that extra debt and they expected 25% compound return anually. natuarally the government cant be too happy as they will loose about 500 million a year in corporate tax. i think it is slowly sinking in with the libs pollies that they created a market where now foreign companies can the buy anything in OZ and the government helps negatively gear it to foreign interests. and to help avoid any industrial issues we changed the IR laws so you can change conditons of employment. bloody good job :{

[roamingwolf]

You just gotta love him,he is such a warm wonderful guy.

[sydney s/h]

The QF LH cabin crew in here are a funny lot. I thought you guys used to just attack shorthaulers, Qantas management, the FAAA etc...

But nope - you all turn on each other all the time as well. Its quite amusing (yet pathetic at the same time) to sit back and watch you rip the **** out of each other. If this forum is representative of what goes on at your workplace it must be hell.

Good luck when it comes to any negotiating with respect to your EBA.

[speedbirdhouse]

Have a merry Christmas sydney s/h.

[roamingwolf]

yeah, Speedbirdhouse I second that.

Merry Christmas Sydney s/h.

And while we are on it,the same to Geoff Dixon and all the board.

ps sydney s/h Whats it like to work with all those who think dobbing in your workmates is allright.

qcc2,
I think your right about the resentment building up about the takeover because if it wasn't GD would not have come out with his blurb.He might be worried it's not going down the way he wants.Guys I reckon it's time to keep ringing our polies and the local rags as well

[speedbirdhouse]

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1070407

:ok:

[sydney s/h]

Roaming wolf - you seem alittle psycotic.

One minute you are trying to become buddies with other LH'ers on here and then you attack them. Strange character.

As for working with people who dob on each other - i am not aware of any crew who have dobbed on each other. Because someone made a post awhile ago about some paxing SH CSM dobbing on a LH crew doesnt mean it actually happened. Hate to break it to you Mr Wolf, but not everything said on these forums are actually the truth. Shocking - i know.

Anyway, dont waste your time or effort ****-slinging a "domestic" crewmember like me - there are plenty of Qantas LH'er you have to get back to attacking.

[twiggs]

ps sydney s/h Whats it like to work with all those who think dobbing in your workmates is allright.
I would guess that it would be no different to L/H because S/H does not have a monopoly on dobbers. (although they are few and far between in both divisions)
Merry Xmas.

[lowerlobe]

Let’s knock off all this bickering as it is getting us nowhere.it’s getting like a kindergarten in here.

Let’s see if we can get a dozen or so posts here without a shot being fired.

Now on to more important matters .I think qcc2 and roamingwolf are right and Darth is worried he might not pick up his Christmas bonus.His media release shows he is concerned the takeover might not be approved by the Government and Mr Costello in particular.

Notice how all of this just happens to be taking place over the holiday season.Methinks that this was not a coincidence and has been in the planning for some time.This way virttually everyone has other things on their mind and are being distracted.Perfect timing for an operation of this size.

I like the paragraph from the article raised by Speedbirdhouse…

”Passengers found such an offer hard to resist, especially since it was a full-service carrier, with meals included in the ticket. Passengers had to buy meals on board Jetstar. Sources also said the average load factor on the 180-seater aircraft was about 35%, which can make operations unviable to sustain.”


Let’s keep up the pressure on them and everyone have a safe and happy christmas

[qcc2]

comments by peter costello today it seems he is given the strongest indication yet if he approves the sale ,all bets are off with SQ/EK and others.
having spoken to a state libs (yeah, the enemy) backbencher many of them dont like the idea at all.as i mentioned before the new tax rules allow foreign companies to pick up any local icon on some magic financial engineered package and use the australian taxpayer/ office to pay for it. negative gearing is beiing brought to new heights. :yuk: this is only the beginning of a lot more deals like that under johnny howards new australia. := :=

[Eden99]

21 December 2006 ID74-06

Attention all Qantas Long Haul, Australian Airlines and Jetstar International Flight Attendants

STAND UP FOR QANTAS – STAND UP FOR AUSTRALIA

LETTERS TO FEDERAL POLITICIANS


The FAAA is a key and integral union involved in the Qantas Unions campaign asking the Federal Government to intervene to support Qantas and to stand up for Australia and our national interests.

The FAAA is acting in a co-ordinated manner with all the Qantas Unions under the umbrella of the ACTU. It is our policy to strongly support a JOINT unions approach on this critical issue. We have no intention of pursuing any approach that does not have the support of the majority of Qantas Unions.

In addition to the petition that was circulated yesterday, we now open the next phase of our campaign, which is for all our members to contact their local Federal Member and to make their views on the proposed takeover of Qantas known.

We include in this newsletter a suggested letter to your Federal Member, that each FAAA member can of course amend if you wish to. Also included is a list of all Federal Politicians with their contact details. If you are unsure as to which federal electorate you belong to please contact the Australian Electoral Commission in your state.

The time to become actively involved in this crucial campaign has arrived. All FAAA members should join in and ensure that your families, friends and acquaintances participate.


Support your jobs and working conditions, support Qantas and above all support Australia and the values that are threatened by this proposed takeover of Qantas!


Written and authorised by Michael Mijatov – Secretary International Division.



20 Ewan Street Mascot NSW 2020 Tel 61 2 8337 1111 Fax 61 2 8337 1122 Emergency Contact 0414 894 192

[TightSlot]

I'd like the whole wolf/twiggs thing to stop... immediately.

No further warnings - just shut up!

[Lurker@L5]

geoff says he's keeping the 747-400 until end of decade cause thay are (quote) "so well maintained"
LOL -maybe he should get out of 1A every now & then and have a chat to one of his loyal F/Fs sitting in the U/S seat with the U/S AVOD......
this spin can't go on forever -
loyalty is a two way street -most crew I know are no longer apologising for the massive hard ware failures

[stubby jumbo]

...........'can't help but to notice the same comparisons with our "aging" cricket team with our fleet of 747-300's.

'Did a PER return this week and let me be careful with my words on a public forum as I do not want to spook the punters, BUT this AC is clapped out and should be parked along side the 707 up at Longreach.

It -leaked water from U/D, many seat backs were U/S, Video broke down repeatedly, carpet was in tatters, galleys stunk of ???????, 2 ovens u/s, U/D toilets stunk of ???????, flight deck overhead console looked like a Xmas tree with the number of U/S tags hanging off switches, on the ground it rattles and lurches along likea FJ Holden, brakes squeak and grab, bulkheads stained /chipped and battered..............just to name but a few items in the CCL:mad: :mad:

I can't tell you how many hours I've spent in these ( once great ) AC over the years to LHR,FRA, FCO, JNB.........but that was over the last 10-15-20 years.

So when Geoff says -"yeah fine no problemo, we'll flog them 'till the end of the decade "-just illustrates to me ( again) he has no idea of what is happening in reality with this airline.

He needs to get out of the bankers boardrooms and start "pressing the flesh" with the troops to find out EXACTLY what is going on.....otherwise the Texans will be punting him faster than he can say Uluru.

Everyone knows ( except Geoff, Marg and son of Goanna ) the 743's are tired and need $$$$$$$$$$$$ spent on them. NOW !!!!:ugh:

This decision will come back and bite him on the left buttock -my prediction for 2007

[NIGELINOZ]

This may seem a silly question (hope it doesn't) but after reading through the post by Stubby Jumbo,I have to ask wasn't the reason that Qantas ordered the 380's so that they could start retiring near life expired 747's etc?
With the delay in delivering the 380 have they shot themselves in the foot so to speak? and what effect will this have on the ability of Qantas to service its long haul network.
Will we see more cancellations or will they do what I do with my car,tape it up and hope nothing important like the brakes goes wrong till I find the time to get it repaired.?
You guys who work for them would know better than me but it sounds like Qantas might have to borrow some planes to keep flying:eek:

[twiggs]

I did a couple of PER day trips recently on the classic and my view is that it is still a much better way to fly across Australia in than a 737,767 or 332.
The problem with this aircraft is when it is used on long haul routes it is then compared to the 333 and 744 with which it can't compete.

[qcc2]

outset it looks good the older style j/c seates , more room in the cabin etc. but i do agree with stubby the ongoing problems within the cabins are outrages. i as well as many of my collegues stopped apologising because nothing changes. there was apparently some talk at higher levels to spend another 20+ millions on imporoving the but i think the reality has set in the are beyond repair. let's fly them return syd/mel to per and let the punters burn as many FF points. as one bloke said to me the other day every time i go on this heap of S%^& most things dont work. I replied"send GD an email",he is on the public email list.:E

[Pegasus747]

BA facing new strike threat from cabin crew
Graham Dunn, London (15Dec06, 15:32 GMT, 491 words)

British Airways (BA) chief executive Willie Walsh is calling for a meeting with the general secretary of the Transport and General Workers’ Union (T&G), after cabin crew union BASSA, which is part of the T&G, announced plans to ballot its members on industrial action.

The T&G represents 11,000 cabin crew at the Oneworld carrier and says BA management has become “increasingly inclined to impose new practices rather than negotiate”.

Contentious issues include management of sickness absence which, the union says, puts cabin crew under pressure to turn up for work even when unwell, and the imposed abolition of some higher grades and lower rates for new starters.

Balloting begins on 21 December and should be completed on 12 January. Any industrial action would then have to wait for at least another week.

T&G regional secretary Steve Hart says: "Cabin crew have seen their terms and conditions attacked and imposition from management rather than negotiation. They justifiably feel aggrieved and do not take this decision lightly. It is a serious breakdown of industrial relations.

“We remain convinced that a negotiated solution is possible but I urge BA management to act to resolve this dispute at the earliest possible opportunity.”

Following BASSA’s move to break off talks with the airline, Walsh is now calling for a meeting with T&G general secretary Tony Woodley to discuss the issues raised by unions. “We're disappointed that BASSA has raised the prospect of industrial action in January but we're seeking to avert a dispute with the help of the T&G,” he says.

BA has been talking to two cabin crew unions – BASSA (T&G) and Amicus – on changes to work practices aimed at contributing to its goal of cutting £450 million ($885 million) in costs by March 2008.

“BASSA has remained opposed to key elements of our business plan. Indeed, many of the requests put forward by BASSA would prevent any change to working arrangements and add millions of pounds to our employee costs,” says Walsh. “This cannot be the way forward at a time when other parts of our business have negotiated and balloted to accept new competitive ways of working.”

The issue is unrelated to BA’s continuing discussions with unions aimed at hammering out an agreement with unions on proposals to tackle the carrier’s £2 billion pension deficit; both sides report progress from their latest meeting on this.

BA last month agreed with trustees to raise the size of its one-off contribution to help tackle the deficit, but it is conditional on securing union support for changes to the scheme.

Unions tabled a counter-proposal to BA during a meeting yesterday, which both sides say resulted in constructive discussions.

“The trade union side financial advisers will meet with their BA counterparts over the coming days to clarify assumptions,” the unions say in a joint statement. “This will be followed by a joint meeting aimed at developing a proposal that would be put to members for their consideration.”

Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

[NIGELINOZ]

This from page 2 of Financial Review today (22/12)Quote"Qantas has formalised an order for eight more Airbus A380 aircraft on Thursday ,saying it would use the smaller Airbus A330-200 aircraft to fill excess capacity on long haul routes until the French manufacturer delivered the planes in late 2008.
The airline would defer retiring its Boeing 747-400 aircraft to address capacity in the interim."
Says it all really.

[roamingwolf]

I reckon the other problem with using an aircraft flying well past it's used by date is the company adverts.

On the road near the drive to the airport are ads telling the punters that they can go to the movies while they fly to Sydney. The papershop at the airport is doing a roaring trade when the pa is made that the IFE has given up the ghost in such and such zone.After all the hype Ma and Pa Kettle and the rugrats are looking forward to watching the flicks and end up reading the paper and No Idea for hours.

It's just as well theres room for the punters to move about because theres no real reason to stay in your seat.

As a joker on D&G said the new motto for our company is "Yesterdays technology tomorro"


I reckon there might be a way for the crew to make a quick buck.we could rent out iPods

[mamslave]

not sure if this has been posted already....

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20965199-2,00.html

Qantas sacks alleged 'saboteur'

By Peter Veness
December 22, 2006 04:19pm
Article from: AAP
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QANTAS has sacked a flight attendant for allegedly shoving blankets down toilets on a number of international flights.
The airline also believes the man tampered with phones used by crew to communicate with each other.
Qantas has refused to comment on the matter, but it is believed a male flight attendant has been sacked and will be taking his case to the Australian Industrial Relations Commission.
It is also believed the Australian Federal Police have been called in to investigate the matter.
Lawyers for the man have told him not to co-operate with police beyond a basic interview.
One incident is said to have occurred onboard a Boeing 747 heading for Los Angeles from Sydney.
The plane was grounded for 24 hours while engineers worked to fix the toilet.
The alleged incident has been linked to an on-going industrial relations campaign by Qantas staff which has elevated in recent weeks following the planned privatisation of the airline by private equity consortium Airline Partners Australia.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia, which would likely represent the accused man in any court proceeding, announced a letter writing campaign against the deal yesterday.
All Qantas unions are urging their members to write to MPs and senators in a bid to highlight national interest concerns associated with the privatisation.
Unions are running several campaigns to save the airline from privatisation.
The Australian and International Pilots Association has suggested its members may try to buy enough shares in the company to block a sale.
The association would have to buy nine per cent of the airline to stop the takeover.
Prime Minister John Howard and Treasurer Peter Costello have voiced their support for the current arrangements at the airline.
Mr Howard has constantly repeated his wish that "the Qantas we have is the Qantas we keep".

[Lurker@L5]

The "Wonder from Wagga Wagga" is starting to look & sound a little worried.
Did anyone show the seppos & McMaggots the Hewitt Survey results before they put in their bid?

Unlike "Goodwill" - "Staff Morale " does not appear on a company's balance sheet. However, with a company like Qantas -its one of its greatest assets.

The smartest man in the room (Geoff) reckons morale is a laughable joke -however his years of treating his staff (and the media) with withering contempt are now coming home to roost

The Equity group may not be happy when it finds out too late THAT GEOFF HAS ALREADY STRIPPED THE COMPANY OF ONE OF ITS GREATEST ASSETS -STAFF GOODWILL

The Hewitt was one of the most profound summations of what Qantas is today. the Bankers are now about to reap the economic costs of this almost criminal neglect by Qantas Senior Management.

The Equity Group kept geoff on cause they thought he was doing a good job managing and inspiring his staff.
The Hewitt report concluded -"the Emperor from Wagga Has No Clothes On."

[Shlonghaul]

It appears that the Texas Pacific Group is flushed with cash paying US$90 a share with Apollo Management for Harrahs Entertainment the worlds largest casino group. Looks like that when the A380 finally does enter service with QF that it will be a flying casino...........well craps to that!!!........though I bet some crew on their time off will be gambling away their allowances!!! :ok:

Does this mean that our new owners will be wearing suits with black shirts and white ties?

Harrah's Agrees to Be Acquired by Apollo and TPG
Stockholders to Receive $90.00 Per Share in Cash; Transaction Valued at Approximately $27.8 Billion
LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 19, 2006--Harrah's Entertainment, Inc. (NYSE: HET) today announced it has entered into a definitive agreement for affiliates of Texas Pacific Group (TPG) and Apollo Management, L.P. to acquire Harrah's in an all-cash transaction valued at approximately $27.8 billion, including the assumption of approximately $10.7 billion of debt.
Under the terms of the agreement, Harrah's stockholders will receive $90.00 in cash for each outstanding Harrah's share. This represents a premium of approximately 36% over Harrah's closing share price on September 29, 2006, the last trading day before disclosure of the initial offer made by Apollo and TPG to acquire Harrah's for $81.00 per share.
The Harrah's Board of Directors, based on the recommendation of a Special Committee of non-management directors which conducted a thorough review of Harrah's strategic alternatives, has approved the agreement and has recommended that Harrah's stockholders vote in favor of the agreement.
"In Apollo and TPG, we will have owners who share our vision for Harrah's, are fully supportive of our current strategy and are committed to helping us execute on it. This will be a change in ownership, not a change in direction," said Gary Loveman, Harrah's chairman, chief executive officer and president. "Harrah's management team and its 85,000 talented employees look forward to working with Apollo and TPG as the Company moves into the next phase of its growth and development."
"After careful consideration of the full range of strategic alternatives, the Special Committee and the full Board concluded this transaction is in the best interest of Harrah's stockholders," said Robert Miller, co-chairman of the Special Committee. "Apollo and TPG are both leading private equity firms with proven track records and strong reputations."
David Bonderman, TPG founding partner, said, "We are delighted to be joining with the excellent management team at Harrah's and our private equity partners to continue to build on the Company's strong foundation. Taking a long-term perspective, we believe we will be able to help Harrah's deliver on its growth strategy."

[lowerlobe]

I find it very disturbing that the media has printed an article like this .We are lucky to live in a country that we are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.If the individual IS guilty then he should face the full effect of the law.However after watching the company's security efforts in the past he is more than likely going to get off on a technicality.

What disrurbs me though is the sentence that "the saboteur" has been linked to an on going industrial campaign"....

WHO linked these two events?

This is the sort of effect that media reports have and I can only guess who is behind the "LINKING".

The company uderstands the effect of a media campaign and is willing to fight dirty by hinting that this mindless moron was part of our efforts to stop the takeover.

The FAAA should put out a press statement to the contrary immediately or the company gets away with it AGAIN.


"The alleged incident has been linked to an on-going industrial relations campaign by Qantas staff which has elevated in recent weeks following the planned privatisation of the airline by private equity consortium Airline Partners Australia.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia, which would likely represent the accused man in any court proceeding, announced a letter writing campaign against the deal yesterday.
All Qantas unions are urging their members to write to MPs and senators in a bid to highlight national interest concerns associated with the privatisation.
Unions are running several campaigns to save the airline from privatisation."


As far as the reliability of the 300's is concerned or I should say the lack of reliability we should be operating the recently returned 707 on the Perth shuttles.It would probably be more reliable and enthusiasts would be falling over them selves to fly once again on it

[Pegasus747]

THe FAAA commented to AAP and was interviewed on several radio stations last night when the story broke. The FAAA position stated in those interviews was that the matter was being taken to the AIRC for independent review, where the FAAA currently has an enviable record.

Second, the FAAA commented that there is no evidence whatsoever that directly links the accused to any of these events. The Company appears to be relying on purely circumstantial evidence to find the accused guilty.

Thirdly, the accussed absolutely denies any involvement whatsoever and will be supported by the FAAA in the AIRC to be reinstated.


Finally, the FAAA stated that their is no industrial campaign by flight attendants against Qantas.

[roamingwolf]

pegasus,
What would you do if the evidence was not circumstancial and was very damaging and it looked likw he was the goose that had done it?
Would you spend/use or mates of mine would say waste union funds on his defence?

If it looked as he was giulty without a doubt would you defend him?

I'm not trying to start a fight but this is just a question that came up over a few beers with some mates

[priapism]

Lowerlobe,

Happy to stand corrected on the super issue. I was only aware of the facts as given on the Ansett staff website. Obviously these were a little short of the exact truth . Also happy therefore to publicly retract scaremongering comment.

[lowerlobe]

Priapism,

Thanks for that and I'm sorry if I sounded a little touchy as I thought you were having a shot at me but anyway it's water under the bridge.

Hope you have a safe and merry christmas

[Pegasus747]

Well Roaming...to answer your question ...its often a very difficult decision as an individual.

In Australia we work on a system of innocent until proven guilty. It is not up to the individual to prove their innocence its up to the accuser to prove their case.

Qantas Cabin CRew management have a track record of duplicity, misrepresentation and utter incompetence. Often as individuals we think that a person is possibly guilty. But fortunately the FAAA does not base its decisions on what individuals may think but on what can be proven.

In the commission the FAAA has had the last three terminations by the company overturned by the AIRC. An independent body that weighs all the evidence and makes a decision based on a totally independent perspective.

It is against that backdrop that the FAAA will support its members. If a member admits to a particular offence the FAAA will not LIE or Misrepresent the matter but will continue to get the best possible outcome for the member based on a plea of guilty so to speak.

Hope that clarifies how the FAAA has operated for many years

[roamingwolf]

Thanks Pegasus ,

it will be interesting to watch what happens.The company does not have a great track record in these things.I would not like to be acused of something I had nothing to do with so I go along with your post.

[lowerlobe]

As a matter of fact I'm all for the presumption of innocence which is something that apparently the company has not considered on many occasions.

However after reading the Saturday papers and in particular the article about the "Saboteur" and the inference that this mindless act of stupidity is part of an industrial campaign that we as cabin crew would condone or consider I would not feel any sympathy for the person IF found guilty.

In fact as part of the punishment he should do time as a worker in a sewerage treatment plant as well as lodging in Long bay.

Just read today’s Sun Herald and in one article mentioned the PM’s Christmas party at Kirribilli.

Apart from the spat between QF board member JP and Channel 7 boss DL was another partygoer a certain BM.You might know BM as head of the airline consortium bidding to takeover QF.It did not mention whether Darth or MJ were there though.

It does not look good for those of us who would like the Gov to give this takeover a big NO if the consortiums head is invited to Kirribilli House for Christmas cake.

Why do I get the feeling that the PM would like to use QF to show Australia just how effective his new IR laws are ?

If ever there was another example of why Johnny must go this is it.

[roamingwolf]

Just rang a mate in brisvegas and he told me that the Brissy crew have been directed to take Long Service Leave.Some are being made to take nearly a whole roster.

Unless they have just been carmenised I reckon it does not sound good.

[qcc2]

more leave in brisvegas as there is lots and lots of leave up there.:sad:

[Shlonghaul]

Damn I knew I should have taken the package!!

I wonder if they use elderly rats when they do studies on management? :E

Jetlagged mice die, US study find.
Tuesday Dec 26 16:51 AEDT
A study that exposed elderly mice to the ravages of regular long-haul flights found most of them died.
The University of Virginia study showed a majority of older mice died while being subjected to the equivalent of a Washington to Paris flight once a week for eight weeks, The Washington Post reported.
More intense forms of jetlag sped up the death rate in the elderly rodents, the study found.

Experts say the study is one of the first hard scientific looks into the health effects of jetlag.
Younger mice seemed to rebound more quickly and were not immediately harmed by the jetlag.
Simulated jetlag conditions were created by advancing and delaying the rodent's exposure to light.
But researchers aren't sure what conclusions to draw from the results, the newspaper said.

Gene Block, the report's co-author, said older mice might be more susceptible to sudden light changes than younger mice. Or, he said, jetlag might be a health problem that builds up in younger subjects, causing future maladies.
To further explore the issue, his researchers have launched another set of tests to determine whether jetlag causes long-term health consequences in younger and middle-age rodents, Block said.

Block's study also hinted at what flyers have been saying for years - it's more difficult to adjust to time zone changes when flying east.
The researchers found 53 per cent of elderly mice died when they were subjected to a simulated weekly flight from Washington to Paris over the eight-week study.

The death rate dropped to 32 per cent of elderly mice on a simulated Paris to Washington route, according to the study, which was published last month in the journal Current Biology.
Seventeen per cent of the mice in a control group died in the eight-week study.
©AAP 20069 NEWSWATCH

[Midflight_Wonder]

WHO linked these two events?

This is the sort of effect that media reports have and I can only guess who is behind the "LINKING".


I'd look no further than this forum for "who".

[lowerlobe]

I find it a pity that the media don't have to say where they got their info from.

They can basically say whatever they want and as they say "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story"...ahh journalistic integrity

[sydney s/h]

Shorthaul has just been offered 6months leave without pay or 6months part-time. Starts in March 07.

And to think that 60 people just missed out on VR.

They offer this whilst 27 classes of MAM casuals are being trained.

Strange.

[lowerlobe]

Interesting info from sydney s/h...

We have directed LSL in l/h for what must be around 18 months which I'm convinced was too reduce the debt level of the company for one purpose only.Then we have the VR package that we were never going to have according to those in the fishbowl and to this day the company will still not tell us how many left.

Then the rumours about promotion by "pay less for cash" in Auckland .
Just before Christmas we get the news about a takeover bid by a consortium followed by news of massive amounts of directed LSL in BNE and now LWOP in s/h not for a few weeks but for 1/2 a year whilst a huge number of classes of casuals are going through.

When do the LHR based crew start coming back to Australia ?

As Sydney s/h said "Strange"..that is until the last piece of the puzzle is in place.

[Don Esson]

Some quotes from poor old Lowerlobe (he/she must be old to have a name like that!), and some questions and comments.
We have directed LSL in l/h for what must be around 18 months which I'm convinced was too reduce the debt level of the company for one purpose only.
Ground staff have had to put up with directed leave for quite a few years. This is nothing new and has nothing to do with a balance sheet build-up in readiness for sale. You should be so lucky as many employees have to take leave when it falls due or within 12 months or forfeit the lot. It is not meant to be accrued and cash taken in lieu.
Then we have the VR package that we were never going to have according to those in the fishbowl and to this day the company will still not tell us how many left.
Why should the airline tell you how many have left? After all, what business is it of yours, mine or anyone other than those who have gone and their employer?
journalistic integrity
Where is yours?

[DEFCON4]

Don Esson
The new self appointed moderator.(sic)

[Midflight_Wonder]

I find it a pity that the media don't have to say where they got their info from.

They can basically say whatever they want and as they say "don't let the truth get in the way of a good story"...ahh journalistic integrity

Well, in my opinion, I think that story was unsourced for pretty good reasons. Perhaps Mr Veness spoke directly with the CC who did not want to be named. There is always a reason, I find, for information not being sourced and often that reason is that the source has sought confidentiality and been granted on the grounds of public interest.

[wa.man]

Finally after nearly 2years and 1year later than advised,I recieved an email from cabin crew recruitment giving me 3 options in regard to my application.

1.Transfer my application to m.a.m..

2.Remain on the waitlist for another 9 months for a permanent position with QF.[ which I am sure will never happen] .

3.Withdraw my application.

Seems like only one option really if Iwant to fly... Also I will be required to attend another panel interview...

but with all the leave they seem to be offering nothing makes much sense..

[air doris]

Do not believe anything you see or read in the media written by journalists regarding our industry. You will notice that most articles are published by so called "airline anylists". Who the hell are they to say what is going on with this industry? What is written or told is only their perception and quite often not based on any fact. They are paid to analise this industry and they only quote "facts" when they actually have them, the rest is only their view. I really see no point in their job but to spread rumours and speculation. If these people were serious journalists they would be covering more interesting stories. But I guess the job of an "airline analyst" does become boring, my god I could sit at home and write pages about what I think is going to happen to Qantas or this airline or that, but I don't get paid to think nor do I have the time to read some of the trash these reporters publish.

Sorry, had to get it out....I'm sick of them

[lowerlobe]

Poor Old Don and his posts..

I have looked at a few of old Dons previous posts and found the only real purpose behind them but this is one I liked.

“Since when has it been a crime to be provocative? You obviously don't like the truth.”

…and this was in support of guess who………..None other than BALert…

And Don asks where my integrity is?

Midflight Wonder,

I found what you mean when you said look no further than this forum to see where the press is getting their story in reference to the mindless moron who is sabotaging the toilets.

One of the people who posts here said in relation to the blanket issue that it looks like the STR campaign again.

It does not help when a supposed crew member accuses crew as a group of a criminal act without proof and on a public forum.To suggest that your workmates would consider or condone an illegal act such as this is deplorable.

No wonder our media snoops get stories which are pure fiction but which damage the reputation of crew

[Pegasus747]

A well placed source in "non" cabin crew management reveals that a group has been put together to find core cost savings for the new potential owners.

This is on top of the Sustainable futures reductions already being sourced.

The same source also revealed that Retiree Staff Travel will be one of the first to go as the FBT component is currently being paid by the COmpany. The FBT is one of the things that costs the COmpany in terms of staff travel. Under agreement reached with the ACTU when FBT was introduced, FBT would be borne by the COmpany rather than the individual.

Commuting Tech and Cabin Crew apparently are the greatest contributors to the FBT bill for Qantas and a review of the number of Domestic tickets is currently underway as is a review of the FBT arrangements.

Cabin Crew and Tech Crew Meal allowances are high on the agenda and the COmpany favours the DTA system in short haul (currently $4.79 per hour) for its simplicity and manageability.

More to come.....

The challenges for the current AIPA negotiations for the Tech Crew LH EBA and the upcoming LH Cabin Crew EBA will be enormous

[roamingwolf]

Guys ,here's something interesting about Dick's new airline in the US.

"The US government tossed a roadblock in the path of start-up airline Virgin America, ruling that the company must change its ownership and corporate structure before it can receive an operating certificate.

Under the law, a US airline must be 75 per cent owned and controlled by Americans and the Department of Transportation said Virgin America does not currently meet that requirement."

I reckon we should have that 75% rule as well.

[NIGELINOZ]

Quoting RoamingWolf:
"Under the law, a US airline must be 75 per cent owned and controlled by Americans and the Department of Transportation said Virgin America does not currently meet that requirement."

I reckon we should have that 75% rule as well."
To what end?
Mandating any sort of ownership constraints on a business does not and can not guarantee either good management or good corporate governance.
Qantas is a good example,I am not aware of the current ownership structure of Qantas but I assume it is 100% Australian owned at the moment,however just as an example,its human resource management leaves a lot to be desired and its management of shareholder capital hardly leads the world.
You could argue that a locally owned business would be more inclined to protect local interests,jobs,services,etc but I would not be holding my breath.
The only way to protect the jobs of Qantas staff and protect services to regional areas is to present the management of Qantas with sound economic and social arguments why it should do so.

[roamingwolf]

NIGELINOZ,

G'Day, as far as Qantas ownership goes at the moment it hovers around the 50% mark.it is supposed to be 51% at the least but can very and the bosses have been told at least once to get it back to 51%.

What i'm trying to say is that the us gov looks after there pop a bit better than our own.If it was 75% with us then the overseas people might not want to have such a go at buying us.And as well more of the profits would stay in Oz.

I reckon we have let to many aussie companys get taken over by other countries and the profit sure doesn't stay here.

[NIGELINOZ]

RoamingWolf,
I certainly take your point about profits of foreign owned companies staying in Australia and I accept that a foreign ownership restriction may put some corporate raiders off,so to speak,I just wanted to make the point that in some ways the ownership of a company doesn't neccesarily mean the management would be any better/worse.
Also I do not work in your industry therefore my opinions are just that,opinions,but I do make an average 60 domestic flights a year and have a few friends who are Qantas staff and I have seen the effect that bad H/R management can have on staff morale and I don't like it.
Qantas is still a good airline,it could be great again but it will take a lot of goodwill on both sides to make up for incidents like the"blanket affair".
As I said these are only my opinions and I will leave it to others to say whether I am right or wrong.
I know that the great majority of Qantas staff are loyal,caring,professional people and it distresses me to see so many good people unhappy.
That is also why I won't make any judgement about the takeover until it happens,who knows,the new owners may be more staff friendly than GD etc.
Keep Your Chin Up,Best Regards To All Qantas Staff:)

[Sonique]

Just heard today

AO CNS base is to close by JUNE 07.

Four options to be offered to the 300 CNS based crew -:

1. MEL L/H
2. SYD L/H
3. BNE L/H
4. JQI MEL or SYD base

Don't shoot the messenger....

[speedbirdhouse]

Pretty good options i would have thought.....

[Sonique]

Options sounds good. But would be interested to see what conditions the crew take on ( hopefully the L/H EBA ).
Can't see how this will happen if LSL is being offered to current BNE base crew.
The AO cabin crew EBA 2 is reaching its expiry. AO tech crew are still battling with the company over theirs, which means if no agreement is reached, then the tech crew are sent back to mainline.
Only NRT is left ex CNS as direct flying for AO. With JQI to take NGO and KIX ex CNS as of SEP 07 then there is no need for crew to be based in FNQ anymore. :(

[cart_elevator]

I dont think those options will happen.

The only ones that might would be MEL LH or Jetstar.

There are a lot of current QF LH crew on the transfer list to BNE & SYD there would be a riot if they let AO crew take slots before the current LH crew! I seriously doubt the FAAA would let them jump the transfer list into those bases (unless they were casual crew - which is allowed in the LH EBA) and the company would be pi##ing a lot of crew off if AO crew were allowed to 'push in line' for the BNE & SYD bases.

The other fact is there is no transfer agreement for any subsidiary's crew directly into QF Longhaul within the EBA (not that EBA's seem to mean that much any more).

Good luck with it though

[Sonique]

Is MEL the least popular of the L/H bases ? And why ?

Also what about the s/h to l/h tsfr agreement ? I wonder if the AO crew would 'push in line ' as you say in front of this list ?

Could they keep the AO crew on their existing agreements and cross crew the aircraft in order to put the crew in BNE/SYD/MEL bases ? That way QF are avoiding integration.

[stubby jumbo]

Sorry to hear the news AO.

Unfortunately its same old same old.

As a PER base refugee I certainly know how it all feels!!!

.........like CRAP.

You put your heart and soul into something then WHAMMO.

WHAM BAM THANKYOU MAM:{ ( no pun intended)

[lowerlobe]

I saw our illustrious PM on the news tonight when he was asked about Hecs payments.The interviewer asked what he thought about some students having a hecs bill of $50,000.

The PM said with a smirk on his face that if they worked part time after uni they would not have to pay back any money if they earned less than $36000 per year.

So this is Howards idea of a successful career after doing a uni degree.
You work part time most probably on contract and earn less than $36,000 a year.This is his idea of a great economy.Imagine the incentive to do a uni degree over say 4 years minimum and the light at the end of the tunnel is a part time job on $36000/year.

Darth would love the idea of all QF employees being employed on a casual basis through someone like MAM especially on only $36000/year.

Did anyone else see the smirk on his face as he said this?

At this rate Donald Duck could lead the opposition into power.

Also on an aircraft website the company has advertised VH-EBT for sale so the fun begins.

[cart_elevator]

Yes Sonique
From what I know the LH base in MEL is the least popular > the reason? The Flying is CRAP. The AKL base is doing the majority of the F/A slots on the MEL-LAX routes (where MEL based crew used to make the most money and get the most time off at home), the bulk of the flying seems to be MEL-PER-MEL sectors and MEL-SIN sectors.
And forget the SH-LH transfers, they happen after the LH-LH transfers to other bases (ie MEL to SYD/BNE).
I cant see the AO people getting any slots to SYD or BNE, as even after they action the LH transfers lists they would have to action the SH transfer lists before letting a subsidiary transfer into any longhaul bases. There is no agreement set for a subsidiary company's crew to transfer into QF Longhaul. Only Shorthaul has accepted a subsidiary company's crew the right to transfer in to their division.
The one thing stopping AO crew cross-crewing with QF crew is that their procedures are different to ours. They are trained to different Emergency Procedures, therefore would have to be re-trained in ours if they were to operate with us. That's easy done though.
Who Knows really :sad:

[Sonique]

Cart_Elevator - I thought that was the case. I knew that SH had allowed for subsidiary companies to transfer but I was baffled as to why the words Long Haul were used.

If that is the case, and we do end up in short haul bases around the network then QF would want to stop hiring their next lot of 10,000 MAM recruits. Because 300 F/T cabin crew added to the SH network will make a big difference to the hours of the casuals.

Happy NYE to all QF CREW.

[B A Lert]

......The same source also revealed that Retiree Staff Travel will be one of the first to go as the FBT component is currently being paid by the COmpany. The FBT is one of the things that costs the COmpany in terms of staff travel. Under agreement reached with the ACTU when FBT was introduced, FBT would be borne by the COmpany rather than the individual.
Commuting Tech and Cabin Crew apparently are the greatest contributors to the FBT bill for Qantas and a review of the number of Domestic tickets is currently underway as is a review of the FBT arrangements........
Slightly off topic but as it was raised earlier:
FBT is sure paid on employee travel and you will see the FBT element on your statement of earnings. Just why crew are permitted to commute and in doing so expose their employer to a greater tax payment is hardly fair and reasonable but the precedent was et eons ago when it was relatively rare but now for so-called 'lifestyle' reasons, the practice is now almost certainly out of hand and much greater than ever envisaged or intended. Probably has also the ability to change 'travel companions' every six months. On commuting crew, if their travel benefits are withdrawn for an abuse of Staff Travel, is it a fact that their commuting rights are unaffected?

How does Staff Travel for a retiree attract the FBT? I understood that FBT is applied to benefits conferred on an employee and on which (PAYE) tax is not paid. As a retiree dpres not draw a wage or salary from Qantas, how and why is the FBT applied to that person's travel. Staff travel for retiress is no more than a discount in the same way as some 'seniors' receive a disount for some public sector travel. Do these authorities pay an FBT on that travel?

[DEFCON4]

That staff travel operates on a "space available"basis.
This means that staff get to avail themselves of a seat that would otherwise have gone unsold.(empty)
Staff travel also makes a profit for the company even after paying FBT.
With the advent of (domestic)bases the use of stafftravel to get to work has also declined.
Many airlines have FOCs.... QF don't.

[lowerlobe]

Hey it's B A Lert,

Merry Christmas B A ,a mate of your posted the other day his name is Don Esson.

How was your Christmas? it's good to see you back and telling us crew how unfair our conditions are to our employer particularly those of us crew who commute.

Hey B A , In between my next two trips I'm going to Perth for a few days. Then later in Feb I'm going to go across the pond to see a mate in AKL .This job is great isn't it?

By the way ,you wouldn't be a retiree would you ?

[cckat]

I left flying a couple of months ago, and would like to get back into it (the grass is always greener, eh?) I've read through the posts here, the previous Qantas ones, and MAM too (because I guess, if I get the job, it would be via MAM). I'm curious though, a lot of what I read here sounds so negative, and I can understand why, but most of the crew I met who worked mainline would always tell me to rush and join them, it was so much better (I was previously doing Qantaslink) - is that a bit of propoganda for their airline because we were all in uniform, and is this site more of a place to vent, and the crew wouldb't really leave, or should I try harder for a crew position with another company or OS?

[Bad Adventures]

From the ABC internet news website.

Passengers stranded after problems ground Jetstar flight

Budget airline Jetstar has had to cancel its first Melbourne-to-Honolulu flight because of technical problems.

Passengers were stranded at Melbourne airport for several hours last night before being told the flight was off.

Jetstar say the problem has been addressed and the 270 passengers flew out of Tullamarine this morning after staying in hotels overnight.

But disgruntled passenger Christopher Montebello says passengers were kept in the dark about why the flight was cancelled.

"I'm disappointed in the way that people were treated," he said.

"We spent two-and-a-half hours waiting for the plane, there was some sort of technical problem, then from the technical problem there was no answer.

"People need to know what's going on, not ferried and pushed and shoved through the lobbies, in and out of international services - we don't need all that."

:} :} :}

Ahh You gota love it!! Super start there Mr Joyce!

[Butterfield8]

Get used to it folks...its the promise of things to come
Everybody lauds globalization and market forces...giving people what they want.
Unfortunately they dont often GET what they want.
But hey..they saved a few bucks and didnt have to fly through SYD.
Ahhh..the brave new(stupid)world.
Pay inexpensive ...you get inexpensive(cheap cheap)

[Pegasus747]

Flight cancelled on runway
December 30, 2006 01:07pm
Article from: AAPFont size: + -
Send this article: Print Email
BUDGET airline JetStar cancelled its first Melbourne to Honolulu flight overnight after a breakdown of an important engine part.

The airline declined to identify the specifics of the problem but said the fault had been spotted during final procedural checks as passengers commenced boarding the flight.

"As part of the Qantas group we don't go into specifics of maintenance," Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway said.

"There were some mechanical problems which required a part repair and a fair bit of maintenance overnight."

The 270 passengers on the flight, due to depart at 7.40pm (AEDT), were booked into hotels for the night before flying out early this morning.

"Obviously its regrettable, and the fact it's a first service makes it very regrettable," Mr Westaway said.

But disgruntled passenger Christopher Montebello said passengers were disappointed that they had been kept in the dark about why the flight was cancelled.

"I'm disappointed in the way that the people were treated," Mr Montebello said to ABC radio.

"We spent two and a half hours waiting for the plane ... (before being told) there was some sort of technical problem and then, from the technical problem, there was no answer.

"People need to know what's going on, not ferried and pushed and shoved through the lobbies in and out of international services."

Jetstar operates two Melbourne-Honolulu services a week using the three-year-old Airbus 330 aircraft.

The service was launched yesterday, two days after the airline started its Sydney-Honolulu service.

[roamingwolf]

Just had a beer with a techy and he reckons that a rumour is floating around that there is maybe a hotel change in LA or overflow from Bonaventure.

He was talking about a airport hotel

Maybe our new owners reckon the bonaventure is to expensive and are looking for cheaper digs

Anyone heard anything?

[speedbirdhouse]

It seems that the two extra flights a week into SFO as of March are at the expense of scheduled LAX services so I guess the [270 odd ?] rooms a night needed at the misadventure will be reduced somewhat??
Can't say that I have heard any rumours but no doubt the company are always looking for an opportunity to further piss off their staff.

[hostie w t mostie]

Hi Sonique
Where did you hear about AO closing down? Is it official or another rumour?
Has the company put anything out to crew yet about this? (or are we going to read about it in the Cairns Post!!)

[roamingwolf]

When I made my post Pegasus was still on so I hoped that he might give us what the union knows.

[cokecropduster]

Hi Guys... I was talking with a AO Tech Crew the other day on my flight and he seemed to think that they were looking at increasing the numbers at AO??

I also heard a rumour that LH were going to lose some of the NRT flying in MAR??

[roamingwolf]

cokecropduster,

Mate you wouldn't be a mam casual would you.

[speedbirdhouse]

The following is acut and paste from the Times Online-


"“The Qantas management believe they have taken it about as far as they can under the current ownership structure. If they want to make the really difficult decisions to make the company more efficient, they need a change,” said one senior Australian businessman close to the Qantas board."


The full article- http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8209-2523975,00.html

[NIGELINOZ]

Interesting to note that Peter Yates (head of Allco Equity) is the son of former federal Liberal MP Dr William Yates and his brother Oliver Yates is also a director of Macquarie Bank Corporate Finance.So strong links to the Lib's.Somehow I doubt Costello will intervene.

[DEFCON4]

Wherever the Airbus goes the domestics are sure to follow.
Must be BP 250 after the 18th March 2007

[B A Lert]

you wouldn't be a retiree would you

For Lowerlobe's curiosity, no, not at all!

In between my next two trips I'm going to Perth for a few days. Then later in Feb I'm going to go across the pond to see a mate in AKL .This job is great isn't it?

For some people, yes it is a great job and you can get around on your days off with relative ease compared to many of your colleagues. Half your luck but I don't complain about this. I and many others would say that Staff Travel is not a taxi /train/bus service like some people think it is. Funnily enough, quite a few posters do agree with me just as some will either agree or disagree with you So what if we each have a few mates?

I hope LL and everyone else here enjoys a happy and safe New Year.:ok:

[NIGELINOZ]

I would like to wish all cabin crew,from any airline all the best for the new year.
I don't work in the industry but in 2006 I made 60 domestic flights with carriers including Rex,Qantas,Virgin Blue and Jet* and I have enjoyed excellent service from all cabin crew on every one of those flights.
Without exception I can say that every F/A I came into contact with was polite,friendly and professional.
Sometimes as a passenger you don't get the opportunity to thank the ladies and gentlemen who take care of you whilst on board so I would like to wish every single one of you a Happy 2007 and I hope you all have "friendly skys" in the coming year.
2007 will be a challenging year for those employed by the Qantas group however I hope that reason will prevail and there are no job losses at QF.
Keep smiling and all the best.:)

[lowerlobe]

Nigelinoz,

Peter Yates was also the CEO of PBL for a number of years and before that he was with Macquarie bank where he specialised in acquisitions and mergers.

Now we have the head of PBL on the QF board and a Mr G J Dixon on the board of PBL.

Cosy little club if you are a member.

If you are wondering what the consortium has in mind for us then read ALLCO's description of themselves...

"We will make private equity investments in medium to large sized leveraged buyouts (“LBOs”). AEP will also take influential positions in public companies where it will agitate for change to bring about improved performance and value enhancement."

With Howard interviewed over the weekend saying that he had nothing against the takeover of Qantas you can take it that the takeover is as good as money in the bank.

I wonder what boards Mr Howard will appear on after he retires from politics

[Le 3rd Homme]

No Merry Christmas from The Black Widow,The Fat contoller or Tarantula on the Crew Website.
Every Christmas QF usually supplies Decorations for the aircraft on Christmas Eve...none this year.
Gee with all the salivating over their bonuses maybe they forgot.
KB the illustrious manager of HR has sounded off on the website about the union misrepresentation of the company position.
Hey KB.... treat your employees like the enemy and they will become the enemy.
Blankets in the Brasco comes to mind(No I dont condone it)
KB..... affectionately known as "the thug with a tie"

[speedbirdhouse]

The following is an extract from John Durie's "Chanticleer" article from the back page of the Christmas edition of the Weekend Australian Financial Review.

It makes a mockery of Kevin Brown's and Geoff Dixon's claims that opposition to the deal is just a union beat up.....

OINK OINK OINK :ugh:

-------------------

“How strong the backlash will be to percieved talk and no action from the government remains to be seen. But the switch in the public’s attitude in recent months is truly extraordinary.
The global and Australian economies will continue their stellar growth, and domestic corporate profits will achieve a fourth year of double-digit earnings. However, the cycle is nearer to finishing than starting.
Some say the smiling photo of Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon hugging his soon to be former chairman Margaret Jackson will one day be seen as signaling the end of an era-similar to the picture of former Time warner boss Gerald Levin hugging AOL’s Steve Case at the height of the dotcom boom.
That’s a big call, but the level of inconsistencies in the carefully crafted messages from the Qantas buy out team is enough to raise suspicion that the deal is a lot more about creating fee income and personal wealth than it is about revolutionizing the airline.
The roughly 15 per cent slumpin the share price of the biggest equity provider to the deal, Allco Equity Partners, since the deal was announced says it all and bets can be laid on how long Peter Yates keeps his job.
The deal was all laid off into offshore banking hands, some of which will find it’s way back into Australia.
Just what can be achieved in private hands that can’t as a public company remains to be seen, but having delivered his management team into the Alice in Wonderland world of private equity riches, it’s up to Dixon and his team to prove the nay-sayers wrong.”

[lowerlobe]

Does anyone know if all crew in BKK over NYE are safe and accounted for in regard to the bomb attacks?

Pegasus or anyone from the FAAA?

For some reason I can't access the FAAA website.

[Hyena]

Hey.

Wondering is someone could help.

I am CCUK locally recruited but wanting to return to Australia and dont want to leave my job. As UK based crew we are not able to transfer back home. I wanted to know if at any stage MAM casuals get offered permanant s/h-l/h contracts? They appear to say that this "never" leads to full time employment. Is this the case?

It appears that Qantas Australia hasn't recruited for full time crew for some time. Is MAM the way to go with employment for Qantas Australia?

Thanks :ok:

[lowerlobe]

It looks as though the FAAA are still on holidays

[cartexchange]

yes they are still on holidays.
MM states that he cant fly as he needs to be near the office in case "something happens" yet the FAAA office is closed from the 22 dec till who knows when?
Why has the FAAA office been closed for so long, they are always getting upset because QF claim to be a 24 hour airline and all its staff should be available yet they seem it appropiate to close down for 10 plus days.:mad:

[surfside6]

The FAAA has an Emergency mobile contact number.
You 2 should feel free to contact them if life is scaring you or you are feeling lonely.

[TightSlot]

Many recent posts deleted this morning - once again, playing the player, not the ball.

Accusing each other of being 'Management' or 'Union Reps' or just being stooges of either is very silly. This is an anonymous forum, which mean that you don't know and can't prove anything.

[speedbirdhouse]

It seems that QF management have made ANOTHER major recruiting f@ck up that is on par with the "unknown":rolleyes: hours limitations imposed by the EU on our English flight attendants............

It seems that the latest shorthaul recruiting drive that involved scouring the country for Mandarin and Cantonese speakers [yoo hoo...longhaul have hundreds :rolleyes: ] has blown up in managements faces due to another example of gross incompetance.

The Chinese government have denied entry to these crew unless they can produce a passport OTHER than a Chinese one.
The majority of these crew having permanent residency in Australia but not citizenship.

So, MAM is now loaded with "useless" Chinese language speakers many of whom barely speak English but unable to operate on the sectors they were employed for.

Ixcellent.........give Lisley another bonus and kindly remind her that Longhaul has hundreds of just what she needs currently doing Perth returns :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
----------
I've got some great gos on the Jetscar international "operation" so stay tuned for more......

[Pegasus747]

Tightslot i actually agree with you and apologise for my part in it. It gets very frustrating though when some are fixated on the whole union/management stooge approach.

For my part i am happy to provide the contact details of the senior FAAA officials if anyone wants to private me.

That way at least no one will be able to say that they couldnt contact someone when they had some sort of Crisis

[lowerlobe]

It appears as though Pegasus’s idea of a crisis is different to mine. To me an emergency is something that is of an urgent or earth shattering nature or life threatening and definitely a not a simple question about hotel accommodation

So the question remains …Does anyone know. …Even those who are supposedly not in the FAAA but who are either incredibly close, sit next to, are related to or have drinks with the elected officials of the FAAA. …Sorry just fell off the chair in laughter………about any change to the crew hotel in LA?

Pegasus as this is not a crisis and is instead a matter of curiosity to those of us who fly to LA it appears it does not require a pm to you or the use of the bat phone.

If you are close enough to be able to provide personal contact details of our elected officials can you lean across and ask them if they know anything about this matter? I realise that you will say ring the office and I would but I don’t have all day to wait in my room for a call back. I still think calling from Singapore or London about this is a bit much don’t you? That’s why I was hoping someone here would know something but that’s me I suppose I’m the eternal optimist..

In any case the FAAA web site can give us information about contact numbers but not help with contactability unfortunately. Maybe the FAAA website can have a rumour section included and you can…sorry they can confirm or dismiss any rumours.

Otherwise it appears as though I will have to wait until I’m in LA next and will have to ask the staff behind the counter or one of the homeless outside Macy’s…or maybe the bus driver will know or even the security at QCC or if all that fails I can always ask when I’m on the flight deck next.

Peg, I do agree with you though that the union approach is frustrating and counterproductive. By the way how is my grammar ,it is so different to German.

Now as Monty python would say “Now for something competely different” Did any of you read this from the AFR…

“Certainly Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon and Gregg have made no secret of their desire to increase workforce productivity, and the Jetstar model is where they see the future for employees of both airlines.

"What we're on about is efficiency, not taking money away from people," Gregg says. "When people organise their work life to rort the system and work holidays when there's no work to be done and get higher pay - that's the sort of thing we've worked very hard to wipe out.

"For instance, a senior pilot earns about $350,000 to $400,000 a year, and probably works a maximum of 700 hours a year. Bringing Australian workplace agreements into Jetstar is very much an example of how we'll no longer be put in the position where inefficient work practices will cost employees of this company jobs."

This is the sort of misinformation that is being published and what we are up against. Will our unions reply or remain silent?

[NIGELINOZ]

Found this on another thread,http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256348..
Makes interesting reading,is this what will happen to Qantas staff under the new labour laws?
Somehow I don't think Qantas will set up a base in France if the Easyjet raid is an example of what may happen!

[twiggs]

From what I have read here, the rumour is only that there will be the need for an additional hotel for surplus crew that the LA hotel can't accommodate.
This is something that has happened already since the LA hotel contract and surplus crew were accommodated in Longbeach on that occasion I believe.
There was no mention that we would be terminating the current contract, just an additional hotel, probably temporarily.
In any event, nothing new here, so why the fuss?

[Pegasus747]

for those that dont know...the FAAA email address is [email protected]

If you send them an email while you are seated at the computer and want to know if they know something about some rumour you have heard drop them a line.

If you dont want to call them , just email them i am sure you will get a quick response.

Please dont paste on here and expect Qantas management, the FAAA, the AIRC or AIPA to post replies here.

It's tiresome to keep lecturing. Unions do not exist to chase down every rumour nor do they have the time or the resources. At any one time there are hundreds of rumours usually from " really Reliable " sources.

When chasing them down its like chasing a needle in a hay stack. What i generally do it pick up the phone and ring Sam Taranto, Alison Webster or BOS to check something out.

1 in 100 has some basis of truth. It's like the package. The rumours of a package started over 2 1/2 years ago. eventually a package was announced and some said...there i told you so.

Try ringing your employer first. If that fails and you think its important or that you really need to know then contact your union if you think that your employer is lying to you.

But really, there are so many things more seriously going on behind the scenes than possible changes to hotels.

[Bazzamundi]

Talk about galley gossip gone wild. A small number of overflow crew will be relocated at the Sheraton just down towards Macy's in the coming months. The big majority will be staying exactly where they are.

:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

Exactly right Twiggs I could not agree more and that is what I was wondering as well.

I was simply interested to see if there is any substance to the rumour .We all know how secretive the company can get and other people as well.

I could not work out how Pegasus considered it a crisis and required a call on the bat phone to FAAA HQ especially considering the cost of a call from London.

I have tried that idea Pegasus' of emailing the FAAA once and it would have been quicker to use carrier pidgeon.

You should run for the FAAA elections Twiggs

[rockerlpz]

Hello, I´m from Bolivia, ( South America), I´m not in Australia right now , and I wanted to know what requirements are needed for me ( as a foreign citizen) in order to be able to work in Qantas as a flight attendant, would I need to have the Australian residency? or even the Australian citizenship?, how could I get it? or what else would I need?, I WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY THANKFUL, IF ANYONE COULD PLEASE ANSWER MY EMAIL, I´D REALLY APPRECIATTE IT. I´ll be waiting for your answers.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME


PS. I speak 2 lenguages, could that help me in some way?

[crewbus]

You will need to be an Australian resident. Check out qantas.com under about us, jobs, and it will give you a link for the Immigration Department.

[air doris]

You must have at least "Permanent Residency of Australia" and a valid/uninhibited passport to fly anywhere on the network ie no restrictions on your passport. This includes domestic operations/MAM casual as you will be required to operate international flights. Good luck. You can still be employed on a foriegn passport but you must have the permanent residency status. Not sure about requirments for LHR, BKK or AKL base, only Australia base.

[cokecropduster]

NRT has left the building to MEL SH... BOM back...

[VH-XXX]

Guys, have a friend looking to get into Qantas or similar and has queries regarding the international language components, what type of course you would do, etc, etc, what's best, what has worked etc? Seems some language course mobs are suggesting that theirs is the best and they are the actual mob that do the testing for Qantas.

Any suggestions welcome.

[cokecropduster]

Testing is done by a University in your state. The requirement is Advanced Level 4 or higher. Google Language Test QANTAS. :ok: QF only really looking for Chinese speakers at the moment, and that is only through MAM.

[roamingwolf]

Cokecropduster,

Mate ,why don't you post here the conditions and money you guys at mam get compared to us?

Other news the boys and girls up the front with Aussie air in FNQ have just told the company where to go with their eba offer.

[Pegasus747]

MAM flight attendants on the latest of 3 contracts earn $27 per hour, plus about $4.79 per hour DTA.

There hours limitations are the same as short haul EBA but they are guaranteed 20 days work. That day can be as little as a standby duty. They average between 80 and 120 hours per month and are now given a roster with duties that combine flight duties and standbys. They apparently get 8 days free of duty per month but can make them selves available for additional work subject to resource requirements.

Take home pay seems to be about $1200 per week according to a friend of mine who started in November.
However, no penalty rate, no sick leave pay, no annual leave pay , no long service leave, and no staff travel.


Very little chance of career advancement, but in todays environment it seems according to my mate better than anything else available for a non skilled person.

And by that i dont mean that you dont have to have skills, but flight attendants will know what i mean.

hope that helps

[twiggs]

Sounds better than a kick in the teeth :)

[lowerlobe]

Twiggs,
Breathing is better than a kick in the teeth but you need more than just air to live on and pay the bills.
Pegasus,

What is the slipping formula or whatever you would like to call it and hours limitations for s/h and MAM?

I knew they did not get any staff travel but I did not know that they did not get paid sick leave.

As far as skills is concerned I wonder what Darths are? he started off as a journo basically.

I wonder what courses or degrees he has to qualify for his position.

[roamingwolf]

Pegasus,

Thanks mate for your answer and although some guys and girls want a job working for mam doesn't sound much chop does it.

Gee at the moment I have mates who are plumbers who can pick and choose what they want and are making a packet.If I was young enough like some of these I would not bother with flying under these conditions I'd go to tech get a trade and make a motza compared to what mam are paying.

[Pegasus747]

I tend to agree to you RW, if my kids were in the last stages or their education i would tell them that a skilled trade is the only way to go. Plumbing. electrical or such.

Anything that they cant do from a call centre in India or china. Or outsource.

To be honest the new visa that allow cheap labour to come in to Australia under the guise of a so called skilled shortage are a danger to the trades too.

LL, as far and MAM and short haul EBA conditions they can all be found on the short haul website and contained in detail in the EBA. Suffice to say that our slipping formula and conditions such as hours rest periods etc are vastly superior.

That is why we are being marginalised and made redundant. Over 1200 Long Haul Flight Attendants since 2000. And yet short haul via MAM casuals are growing and taking what we have traditionally thought of as our work.

Its a damn pity that the short haul union didnt mirror long haul conditions when they flew "regional" patterns. We wouldnt be in the mess we are now.

Any way life is far too short to worry about what might have been. In LH now our challenge is to attempt to get the best EBA we can under trying circumstances at the end of the year.

the most interesting fact is that it seems that the DOmestic Divisions union president who is coming back after her stint in the London base is going to Head up the Domestic FAAA following the resignation of Darryl Watkins.

Talk about jobs for the boys lol or girls as the case may be

[sydney s/h]

Peg 747,

I agree with alot of what you are saying, but you mention that if SH had taken the same pay/conditions for regional you wouldnt be in the mess you are now.

Personally i think there are a whole bunch of reasons that LH is in a mess - sure, without a doubt one of them is the fact that SH have f*cked you over with respect to regionals. But hey, we also f*cked ourselves over. Hence i dont do them. If i wanted to go LH i could have.. many times. The last transfer wanted 50. The only got 46. It was the first transfer in 2 years.

Anyway, i think that SH is only one piece of the puzzle. Things like LHR base and the ever growing AKL base seems to be a major issue.

The fact that in LH the only way to get career progression is to leave QF and come back as a kiwi seems one way to get a red tie/scarf or head up to LHR.

In SH we have had 3 classes of CSM's in 2 years. Approx 15 in each and yeap... lots of ex LH crew are now in the red gear.

I have no idea what you guys are up for in the next eba but one thing would be a good fisting by QF. So i guess you have 2 choices...stick together and get ready for a good fight or start to lube up so it doesnt hurt as much.

Good luck guys.

[twiggs]

Twiggs,
Breathing is better than a kick in the teeth but you need more than just air to live on and pay the bills.


$1200 a week will allow my family to live well and pay our bills.

[wa.man]

I cant comment on pay east coast M.A.M casuals are earning but over here in Perth we are [ certainly I am] not earning anywhere near 1200 per week. My take home salary has ranged from as little as 1100 per fortnight to the most being around 1900.. Working 80-100 hrs per month. No holiday pay,sick pay,long service leave,progession to either full time or supervisory roles.No bidding, staff travel,port swaps etc,etc,etc..... all which was made clear during interview process..makes it a very short term employment prospect. Such a shame as the job is great..

[Pegasus747]

it would seem that the MAM pays, are quite variable depending on the contract you are on and the number of hours you work. Given that a lot of the regional flying is actually being done by the MAM casuals they get better DTA and hence the ones doing the regional flying it seems are getting the larger pay packets.

I think the problem in WA is the same perenial problem that was the affliction of the LH base there. The lack of flying and hours.

But as my friend said to me only last night, The average income for a flight attendant who leaves flying and gets a job in the real world is about $35k pa.

Those that have a trade or their own business might do better but let's face it, when you can get a 21 year old full of beans and enthusiastic why would you employ an ex flight attendant.

The skill set of a flight attendant is not marketable elsewhere as those that thought that they would take the package and get another job have told me.

The exercise i go through every now and then is to check out the job section of the newspapers and try to find a job that comes close to the conditions and pay that i get as a long haul flight attendant. Quite frankly nothing comes even close.

I am here for the duration and hope that we can keep as much of our income and T&C as possible. I am certainly not counting on a change of government but i will be certainly praying for one :)

[lowerlobe]

Pegasus,

I agree with you that it would be a tragedy and a criminal one at that if we did nothing to protect our conditions and sat back and accepted defeat as inevitable.

It appears that the pay received by MAM casuals can vary greatly. As I said yesterday in my post that was deleted that with no paid sick leave and no paid annual leave you might go well over 5 weeks with no pay packet if you were sick and then had annual leave.

Imagine trying to put food on the table and pay your mortgage and bills with that sort of disruption to your income.

This sort of timing is rare but in our job you can have an upper respiratory tract infection that stops you from flying but not working if you were a 9 to 5 person.

As WA Man has said being a MAM casual is a short-term job prospect at best and for those who would suggest here that it is not too bad I think you are living in a fools paradise.

The company supporters and spin doctors would love for us to think that the pay with MAM is good enough to live on but look beneath the surface and it is a different matter.

We have to do everything that is possible to protect as minimise any changes to our jobs because if we don’t then we might as well be pushing shopping trolleys.

Pegasus talks about skills and I ask again what skills apart from ruthlessness does Darth have? What uni degrees does he have?
:confused:

[ozskipper]

From AAP:

Govt wants Qantas jobs kept in Australia

Qantas must keep jobs and maintenance facilities in Australia if a consortium bidding to buy the airline is to win federal government approval.

Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile told The Australian newspaper the Macquarie Bank led-consortium must provide guarantees on a range of issues for the $11-billion deal to get the nod.

This could also include the bidders committing to maintain its existing flights to regional areas.

"Obviously we can't be too interventionist but this business, particularly post-Ansett, is in a very unique position in the Australian economy and therefore we need to move forward with great care," Mr Vaile said.

Mr Vaile also said the government would not open the lucrative trans-Pacific route for several years to airlines other than Qantas and Virgin Blue.

+++++

Interesting, I guess. At least they're thinking about the future of the airline and its employees. Whether or not it amounts to anything is another thing.

[Shlonghaul]

$1200 a week as a mam casual equals $62400 a year............quick Eden, Guardian & Pegasus call GD and tell him that LH crew are not so expensive after all!!!! :E

[qcc2]

like the guy who did some work in my place, he again is overseas with his 2 kids to disneyland( qantas, of course). that makes it 3 holidays in the last 12 month (2 overseas, one in qld). and financially i think he i pretty well off (i did have a look at his house). i do agree,if you look for a job you need a trade or some qualification (and most f/a's have them including uni degrees). the old saying prevels if you want a job there is one. worst case scenario get your truck licence and head to qld or wa for a 100k+ job in the mines.:E

[Pegasus747]

By Long Haul or Short Haul full time staff standards what the MAM flight attendants get it not good. But by Jetstart International Standards its significantly better.

I think that the lack of annual, sick, and LS Leave is appalling, given that they do full time work.

But by community standards its becoming more commonplace.

Those in established jobs or with a skill that is marketable can do better but my friend was Long Term unemployed before he got the position , although had previously held well paid management positions.

Having been through the whoe centrelink experience my friend is very grateful for a well paying job. He does however realise that its a job and not a career which is very sad.

I will get an update from him on income when he gets his next pay which includes three regional flights. BOM, SHA,PEK

will be interested as i dont believe he is misleading me, but it could we be that the pay is variable from month to month depending on hours etc

[Bolty McBolt]

roamingwolf
.A close mates wife gets over $50,000 a year in Sydney and is a pa .She is a good worker and I’m not putting her down but mate she is just an organiser not a brain surgeon and she is pulling in a lot more than$35000.


You are out of touch mate, I know quite a few P.A.s in SYD. most are paid 70-80K and the odd one earning over the ton but its all about the skill set you bring to the table..?

I wouldn't have thought many people whom are long term QF employees could leave, change vocation and earn the same money.

Just adding perspective :ok:

[roamingwolf]

Bolty,

G'day , as qcc2 said a lot of cabin crew have other qualifications including uni degrees .

the biggest problem is getting your foot in the door mate or knowing someone and that is with just about anything in life.

If you want a job there will be one because we are not specilaised like the tech crew are.

I reckon it depends on if you are willing to move as well and not just work where you have always been.

Mate who knows what the new bosses will bring if they get the OK for the takeover we might have to work in Mt Isa in the mines if we want decent money.

I might have to get the 14 year old to teach me some new computer skills and you never know.But thanks for telling us about the pay scale .There are a few here that reckon you'd be lucky to break 35 K .Things are not as dark as they would make out

[qcc2]

bolty, i know a pa which earns around 110k plus car and lots of perks (free tickets to movies, shows, chairmans lounge at he races, jc travel and so on.
its not an easy job but the person loves it dearly and is very good at it. does she sl**p with the boss (like someone we All know), no.;)

[cokecropduster]

MAM people get around $1200-?? a fortnight, not a week. But the more a MAM works the more they earn. SYD MAM get more than other bases due to more trips. The more overnight trips the better the pay.

[air doris]

Does MAM pay super? What per% of the wage?

[cokecropduster]

Super is compulsory... 9%??

[air doris]

thanks, I'm hopless with that.

[lowerlobe]

Here is an interesting article in the AFR Mon 8th Jan 2007.......

Jeffrey Lucy, chairman of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, is reported (January 3) as having said in respect of the private equity boom that managing conflicts of interest, such as the potential for executives to make a substantial windfall by supporting bids to take their companies private, would be a key issue for regulators in 2007.

The first major test case is the announcement that Geoff Dixon, chief executive officer of Qantas, has agreed with the bidder that if the private equity takeover of the airline is successful he will have a long-term service contract and will receive a bonus of up to $60 million if certain performance targets are met.

In announcing the recommendation of the takeover bid, the Qantas chairman said that Dixon had not participated in the "board decision-making process", but agreed with the recommendation.

Dixon announced at the same time that the bidder had offered him and he had agreed, that if the takeover was successful he would have a long-term service contract as CEO and that his new salary package would be about the same as he was now receiving but, in addition, he would receive a bonus of up to $60 million depending on Qantas's performance after privatisation. He further said that he had decided to give the bonus to a private fund to be established by him for the benefit of the community, particularly in the areas of medical research and indigenous health and education.

The question is whether the decision to give away the $60 million bonus removes Dixon's conflict of interest or, in the words of Lucy, "manages the conflict". I do not question Dixon's generosity nor his great desire to benefit medical research and indigenous health and education. I have no doubt that he has a real and substantial personal interest in those matters. But has the conflict been removed?

Several points should be noted. First, the bidder has not offered other Qantas employees long-term service contracts nor a bonus. Unlike Dixon, they will, if the takeover is successful, get no job security and no bonus.

Second, for most of us Dixon has been, and is, the face of Qantas. He is reported as being involved in the pre-bid discussions with the bidder and since the announcement has publicly supported it.

Third, Dixon has chosen to give the $60 million bonus to charitable objects and not to the Qantas employees who have no long-term security nor any bonus - despite the fact that Dixon's bonus will be based upon the contribution by other employees to the performance of Qantas. But then, the decision to whom Dixon gives the bonus is his choice - it's his money.

Fourth, Dixon's personal interest in giving to charitable causes remains a personal interest despite his benevolence.

In my view, the proposed donation does not remove the conflict of interest but reinforces it. Dixon's personal interests are in conflict with his position as CEO of Qantas.

Daniel Appleby,

Speed and Stracey Lawyers, Sydney, NSW.



Darth said in an interview that he could not guarantee jobs for Qantas employees or his own.Yet at the same time he would have been aware that if the takeover went ahead (and he was endorsing that very deal) it included a long term contract for him with substantial remuneration and a huge bonus not really seen before in Australia.

[FrankFoxworth]

At the risk of being the only atheist in church, the following questions need to be asked .
What is Darth doing with $60 mill of the shareholders loot anyway and what is he doing giving it away ?

Who approves this obscene madness ?

Is it Maggie and the board ?
If I was a shareholder I would be livid and call for their resignations.
This figure represents approx 12% of last years Net Profit … and rightfully belongs to the shareholders.
Is it conscience money for taking food out of his employees and shareholders mouths ?
Since when has this charitable largesse been a part of a public company CEO’s job description ?

As an aside over the next few weeks look no further than the fluctuating share price for a true indicator of the Government's decision on allowing the deal to go ahead.
Personally i'm hoping for a steady decline .

[lfdlfp]

Nothing against Jetstar cabin crew, but am I the only one who doesn't see the logic in Jetstar crew progressing to Qantas?
Jetstar is taking over Qantas routes and aircraft, they are growing (some would say at our expense), yet their cabin crew progress to Qantas. I'd rather see the jobs go to people who are desperately trying to get full time work as flight attendants.

[NIGELINOZ]

This probably belongs on another forum but it's interesting to note that
Qantas is already dealing with Allco Finance.
A check of the CASA register finds OGG,OGK,OGL,OJG,OJH,and OJJ all listed as being owned by RIL Aviation,c/o Allco Finance Group,Sydney.
There is even one aircraft,OGV registered to a leasing company based in the Cayman Islands!
Could be interesting if the takeover goes ahead Qantas may be leasing aircraft from itself?

[qcc2]

allco finance can get their hands on 20 billion dollars+ on new aircraft leases without going for a competetive tendering process. 0.2 percent more then other leasing deals would result in a massive increase (40million) in revenue for allco finance. lets not forget they would provide the new QF chairman and other board members.:ugh:

[roamingwolf]

I reckon it's funny that those here that go along with the company spiel do not have a shot at the takeover critics.

Maybe thats because they are scared sh!@!&@# that they are going to lose their jobs too.

Guys and girls it is everybody who has a job at risk not just crew

[Mr Seatback 2]

lfdlfp...
JQ Cabin Crew negotiated back in 2002 (when they were QantasLink, and JQ wasn't a blip on our horizon) for Career Progression rights to mainline.
Whilst much has changed since then, we have every right to transfer as does any other wholly owned subsidiary division where the Cabin Crew negotiate for these rights during EBA discussions.
Not having a go, but like all crew in the group, we work damn hard and I believe we've earned our ability to transfer across. Bearing in mind that CP only happens sporadically at best, so it's not as though a huge influx of JQ crew is the beginning of the end.
Understand your point re: JQ taking over, etc etc...but that's a separate issue, and nothing to do with the crew...rather, our illustrious leader and CEO.
"I'd rather see the jobs go to people who are desperately trying to get full time work as flight attendants."
JQ has employed approx 400 full time cabin crew since start up, not to mention Eastern & Sunstate have also recruited heavily over the last couple of years. Yes, it is a great shame and pity the opportunity doesn't exist for Aussies to get full time jobs at QF...but we all know who's responsible for that, don't we?
Not only that, CP only activates when MAM casuals (usually) are converted to full time flight attendants...ONCE, and only once, that has occurred, does CP activate the transfer list.

[hornscorp]

Guys and Girls,

I really think you need to start letting up on MAM casuals some of these guys have been trying to get into flying for a very very long time and once they have got in they really love it.....

As far as pay conditions i think that the pay they get is pretty good for the hours they work... there are people working out in the real world earning $15hr as a casual not getting any sick pay, annual leave etc. The guys on contract C can bid for up to 25 days work a month and get a min of 20 days work a month. if they bid high around the month of having to take a month off without pay it more than makes up for it...It is called saving for a rainy day (as my grandma said all the time )

You only have to look at the latest survey rating to see the public have noticed that employing MAM casuals have helped lift the cabin crew satisfaction rating a lot higher than they have been for years....

One must wonder why the company is putting on more MAM casuals i really dont think you need to be a rocket scientist to work it out...

PS I have some really good friends that are SH perm QF employees that agree with me and love working with MAM casuals when they can..

Have a great day and happy flying to all
:)

[indamiddle]

i have a neighbour who is mam.
a couple of years ago when not much flying around she
worked 8 days in 3 months. she had to get another job
to pay the bills. she no longer flies
gd donating the $60m to charity? sop is that most set up
a charitable trust and donate sufficient annually to the trust,
then claim a tax deduction
so that they pay no tax...done properly he may not pay tax
for rest of his life.

[lowerlobe]

Hornscorp,

I am certainly not having a go at MAM casuals but instead their conditions and pay.It seems funny to me that there are those who post here that defend those atrocious terms and conditions.

As far as your statement “You only have to look at the latest survey rating to see the public have noticed that employing MAM casuals have helped lift the cabin crew satisfaction rating a lot higher than they have been for years....” ……is concerned that is a load of rubbish…

To try and tell us that the MAM casuals that are employed work harder and are better received than full time crew is a joke. Here is a challenge post the survey results that show pax are happier with MAM casuals than other crew.What floor in Qantas do you work?

[roamingwolf]

I tell you what Boys and Girls if Pegasus is right and the pay at mam is over 60 grand a year the application line must be a mile long.On the flip side if it is 1200 a fortnite instead of a week you'd have to be keen.

Wait till GD finds out how much they pay and he'll have a heart attack

[Pegasus747]

well a 5 day mumbai is worth about 900 in pay and about 400 plus in non taxable DTA for the MAM casuals. I would suggest that the MAM casuals would also be in the firing line if the Howard govt gets another show in.

The Jetstar INt and domestic crew are paid much less than the mam casuals despite getting holiday pay etc...

The MAM casuals are just part of the COmpany's current strategy to weaken the stranglehold on full time employment. In order to give SH crew part time flying they have agreed to unlimited casuals.

I think unlimited casuals is an appalling industrial strategy but now perfectly legals under the new IR laws. As its illegal to place any CAP on casual or contract staff.

Great challenges for any group of workers to over come let alone just flight attendants.

[qcc2]

SPECIAL CREW VOICE - EQUITY BID OFFER
A special Crew Voice session will be held Wednesday 10 January
at 11.15am (AUST EST).
This special session will focus on your questions around the
equity bid offer and will be hosted by Lesley Grant,
Group General Manager Customer Product and Services.
Join the conference call by dialling in on the following numbers:
Your Service Access Number is: 1800 681 583 (Domestic Access)
You can call from home or upline - you do not need to be in
the base.
ask her how they equity guys finance the 11 billion, pay the interest, finance new aircraft, pay huge bonuses, pay ongoing fees to everyone involved in the bid and not slash and burn.:*
Cant wait listening to the spin:yuk:

[lowerlobe]

Pegasus ,
Do you have anything to say on the comment that pax surveys have shown a rise in satisfaction because of MAM crew compared to full time crew.

It's great to say you will x dollars per whatever trip but what if you are sick or on annual leave and what if you only do a couple of those trips a roster.

[mamslave]

when i was around the pay was great, clearing anywhere from 1800-2400 per fortnight, depending on trips. For the work done its easy money, however dead boring job.

Im sure the pay thing has been done before, but its about $32 per hour i think. So work it out yourselves...

I have a question though, and I am not pointing the finger at anyone, but it seems the regular posters of the qantas forum are constantly posting on here.

Do you guys ever work in the air? Or are you office spies?

[NIGELINOZ]

I did 47 trips as a passenger with Qantas in 2006 and I was never surveyed about C/Crew or anything to do with Qantas,perhaps I was unlucky,to tell you the truth I wouldn't know the difference between an MAM employee or a Qantas one,they all seem to wear the same uniform so it would be hard for anyone to say with any authority that customer satisfaction had improved if the pax couldn't tell the difference.

[lowerlobe]

mamslave,

We live in interesting times and it pays to keep your eye on the ball.I don't know what you do for a living now but have you heard of internet cafes and lap tops?

The question remains why do you post when you are no longer a crew member.You can hardly criticise others for posting on this and the MAM thread when you are no longer one yourself.

There seems to be a large discrepancy with various MAM crew posting pay figures.You tell us 32.00 others have said 25.00 per hour .However if you are telling us that you used to get 62400 a year then L/H are certainly not the most expensive around in QF.

[DEFCON4]

As a passenger how would you be able to differentiate between permanent crew and casuals?
I have yet to see a badge that says "I am a Casual"
Please dont go on about differing attitude.
Although permanent crew do live under the threat of clause 11s and may not be prepared to have a joke just in case.
I definitely can`t tell the difference:confused:

[mamslave]

LL


Well its a base of around $27 i think plus the $4.98 dta, give or take...

lowerlobe please dont attack me.

I feel i can still post on this board as many of my friends still fly @ mam and still keep me in the loop.

As for laptops and netcafes, don't you have better things to do on an overnight, rather than to post on pprune???

[flytheplanemay]

As a general rule, I would say that MAM casuals would have an 'eager to please anybody' attitude, so they get good feedback and would hope this would lead to being offered a permanent position.

[sydney s/h]

The way you can tell a MAM casual is they are 21yrs old and younger, pretty good looking and do all the crap flying.

If your on the QF401, SYD-MEL 0515am sign-on for a 4.50hr duty -then the flight is full of them. (or a CBR return - 3hr20min duty)

Full timers dont want that!


on a different note... Maq Bank shares are $76.85 each. Holy crap!

[DEFCON4]

...and the customer says ..you are so eager to please golly gosh you must be a MAM casual.
C`mon people..most of the SLF dont even know a K seat from an A seat.
Give me a break.

[cokecropduster]

MAM oh MAM... the hourly rate is high ($31ish, including DTA) because you don't get paid when you are sick or when there are too many people and not enough work, etc.

MAM have 3 contracts:
A: Original contract. A's were ANSETT flight attendants employed when AN collapsed. They tell QF when they want to work, but get work after Contract C&B's have all been used. Were offered permanent work if they moved to PER base in 05. Some are now CSM's in QF.

B: Have to give QF 12 days a month. 3 days are given or allocated to them by the company (always a weekend or public holiday).

C: Current contract. Must work 20 days a month which is allocated to them by the company. They can request to have 3 days off but during Christmas, New Year, etc. they don't get their requested days off. They must take one full month off every year. They are guaranteed 85hours per month pay.

You can see clearly that MAM is NOT on a good deal if you take into effect that they are NEVER going to get a full-time job with QF. Especially, contract C who are Full-time employees at casual rates. C Contract people are worked hard... over 120 hours a month easy in normal months (not slow months like this month).

The new contract C has brought in alot more people that are young. Some respect the job but some do not. Maybe because it used to be alot harder to get in... now.... too easy.

GD said around 00-01?? that he wants a 40% casual workforce... I guess you have to admit... he did warn us!

[Pegasus747]

I dont believe a single word about surveys. Not a word. I have seen all the surveys on my flights and read them all. I have rarely if ever seen a survey that rated Cabin Crew less than very good.

I find it impossible to believe that anyone could differentiate between any class of employee in analyzing the survey results unless they were looking at whole flights and routes where crew were segrgated into classifications, and i dont blieve that is the case

[TightSlot]

This thread has now reached a pretty big size, so for ease of use and housekeeping, a new thread has been opened here - QANTAS - Australia III (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259101) - please continue conversations on the new thread.

Usual conditions apply - and please try not to get into a new MAM row on issues which cannot be proven either way.