1Time Pilot Losses [Archive]

Deskjocky

27th Nov 2006, 09:20

thats the word on the streets.
1 TIME will not last as long as SAA keeps doing what they are doing.
It seems that SAA only wants to kill the little guys. And they will as long as there bank account keeps full. (SOUTH AFRICAN TAX PAYER)
1Time was a breath of fresh air here.
Lets all hope they pull thru!!!!

Cant blame the crew resignations on SAA. All this stuff is internal.

What’s happening here in the employment market is that finally the supply and demand curves for experienced commercial pilots are meeting. If a company wants to earn a quick buck on the back of the pilot workforce then they will wind up with no pilots and therefore no operation- this is going to happen quite soon by the looks of things irrespective of anything that SAA is perceived to be doing. When SAA opens up for recruitment then this situation is only going to be exacerbated, I don’t think Mr O is going to be telling too many more pilots to #%$@ off lest he wants to preside over an apron full of red planes.:hmm:

I have a question- how many of the guys hitting the road already had a DC9/MD82 type rating when they arrived? I doubt a guy with a huge training bond hanging over his head is going to just stroll out the door, or if things are that bad then they would I suppose.

Q4NVS

29th Nov 2006, 20:51

Not sure, but think that quite a number of the ex (Lanseria - 2nd Try) Sunair guys joined 1Time when it just started.

Guess that helped with the initial Crew Training Bill..:O

Deskjocky

30th Nov 2006, 08:24

Just out on TNN:

THE Avstar Group, a company involved in aircraft leasing and charters in Africa and the Indian Ocean Islands, has acquired 15% of 1time Holdings in a deal that should see the airline growing its network and increasing capacity. 1time also announced that it would consider listing on the JSE main board in 2007.
The deal, worth R11,5m, includes an agreement that 1time will lease two additional 157-seater MD83 aircraft from Avstar.
“The additional aircraft will be used to introduce new routes and to expand capacity on existing routes as part of an aggressive expansion strategy in 2007,” said Glenn Orsmond, 1time ceo.
Avstar md, Wade Tanner, added: “Our strategy to acquire more aircraft assets and to expand our African operation fits in neatly with 1time’s strategies. The shareholding cements this relationship firmly.”

Lucy Siebert
([email protected])

Seems quite cheap for 15% stake of 1Time and you had to agree to lease their equipment- what a deal for Avstar! in a few years they will make that investment back in lease costs. Cash flow problems Mr O?

Dog747

30th Nov 2006, 10:27

Ahhhh but Deskjockey, as a concerned SAA employee, I see it involves ADDING an additional 2 aircraft to the 1time fleet. On the other hand, I have just seen a statement from SAA announcing that they are retrenching 1000 employees. Seems to be the opposite direction.
Hope you not one of them !?
Wander how many more retrenchments will come at SAA as Mango grows?

Deskjocky

30th Nov 2006, 13:20

Dog, dog, dog......for a 1Time employee you are not the brightest…. Let’s see where these new routes are shall we, I have a feeling this will be more about getting rid of DC9’s than new routes. Lets also not forget about that extra cash to tide us over for xmas…..:ok:

Now about those 1000 jobs…. Problem is it should have been 3000, but the boss knew the unions wouldn’t swallow it- it was difficult enough getting them to agree to the 1000. I think it’s the biggest step in the right direction SAA has taken in ages- that and launching Mango! Im also hoping more than a few hundred managers get the chop ahead of the junior staff!!:ugh:

As for me I really appreciate your heartfelt concern for my wellbeing, its really touching thank you, but I have a feeling there will be few folk ahead of me in the line...:ok:

Dog747

30th Nov 2006, 13:45

Ah Deskjockey....Thanks for the quick reply. Glad your views on "what should have happenned" tie in with ours !! However, Xmas time is good for us. Even the LCC guys can afford Peroni`s now.:ok:

Glad you not next in line. We would miss your input on these matters terribly.....!!!!:p

Deskjocky

30th Nov 2006, 13:48

Mr O'C you should really stop taking those loong lunches- they are the reserve of those lucky enough:} to be employed by the guvemeent!

Whats with you guys and Peroni is it a staus thing- jeez man! cant you guys drink normal beer! How about lunch next week, speak to Mr P and let me know.

Alternative

30th Nov 2006, 14:09

Definitely not from pilot pool!In fact newbies have a start date!!!

Dexterdawg

30th Nov 2006, 17:17

All very well getting more aircraft.. Who's going to fly them? Management? That should be fun! Sure, get some desperate pilots who are willing to swallow the BS from management, but its only a matter of time before they get p:mad: off and go work for someone else. Only so long any self-respecting pilot will put up with dangerously full rosters, no benefits, broken aircraft, broken promises and indifferent/incompetent management. Apparently, part of the problem with the management previously mentioned, are those looong lunches they so frequently take and, afterwards, don't/can't do anything of any REAL use to anybody (standing joke). :rolleyes:

jojojett

30th Nov 2006, 17:53

Couldn't agree more Dexterdawg! Couldn't work like that. Seems some of the non-pilot types in 1Time management have a serious problem dealing with pilots in general. Was the same here and wherever they (MrO,O'C and P) have worked. Maybe a case of PE? (pilot envy???):hmm:

imustbemad

30th Nov 2006, 20:21

remind us please.... After handing them out to all and sundry, how many of those 100 odd Currie Cup final tickets you were given by the Free State Rugby Union did you offer to your air crew?:ooh:

imustbemad

1st Dec 2006, 03:53

There was a time when the pilots were invited to those extended lunches but not any more for fear of same pilots poisoning the liquid lunch our esteemed management seem so often to partake in. This was, of course, in the heyday of the company when the crew still believed that they had struck it lucky landing a job with 1time. When the world was promised. Sadly. Realisation has set in and all that is being realised is a rotten smelly egg. Well, I guess that does resemble the world of today!
With their crew out stoking the fires and generating enough steam to get the turbines turning and the lovely ladies are merrily welcoming the paying passengers on board, our esteemed management are out racking up the lamb with the company credit cards. Don’t worry about the cost of lunch boys, we can always make it up by $cr3w1ng our crew out of another promised bonus or benefit. Oops no we can’t do that because they don’t get bonuses or benefits in the first place. Oh I know, lets order some more shooters and pay for it by taking away their crew water. Good idea!!! A bonus for that suggestion. Oops no I forgot we still don’t give them bonuses but still a good idea so lets promote you to catering manager, seeing as how you made such a success of our computerised check in system. How is that system coming along anyway? It isn’t, oh dear well not to worry you’ve only had two and a half years to get it right and look on the bright side, at least we saving on printer ink hoorah lets order another round. How we going to pay for this one boys. I know… lets serve the crew vrot meals and make them pay for sandwiches off the trolley. Hoorah great idea another round for you. Hey, hey, hey I’ve got a good one; lets not employ enough crew for the roster. No we can’t do that cause we already are. Aaaaagh bad idea but another drink for you anyway BIG guy.
Hey there’s one of us missing where is he. Oh he is away gallivanting on some charter. Great that means after we have had mass resignations are desperately short of Captains and can barely operate on the crew we have, he disappears. Good move, the schedule isn’t that important anyway. Lets have another round of drinks on him.
Guys I’m bored, there just isn’t that much to do around the office anymore. We’ve taken the jump seat away, reneged on all our promises, attempted breach of contract with our command upgrades, changed the crew hotels without consulting with them, threatened our hosties with legal action, reserved all the parking bays for ourselves and single handedly been responsible for the high morale of our employees. I know lets jump on a plane and pretend we have some really important business down South. Great idea Blondie, grab the credit cards and lets go. But don’t we need to give 3 days notice for a rebate ticket. No silly, we scrapped that. Damn remind me to re instate that rule.
Don’t sit in the back of the plane as we might bump into some of our crew that are being forced to sit there while paxing down to start a 12 hour day. Lets sit up front but remember NOT to greet the cockpit crew. Yeah okay, lets treat them like something warm, wet and smelly that we stood in.

“Ladies and Gentlemen and very good morning to you and welcome aboard 1time this is your Captain speaking We apologise for the attitude of your crew today but as those very few of our regular passengers left flying with us will have no doubt realised, our management have taken a Swan and turned it into a Turkey. We do apologise and trust you will understand that it is for reasons beyond our control. Should you have any complaints, here is the number of our smiling assassin, oops I mean our CEO. If you are unable to get hold of him then just phone the 3 pubs closest to our office! We hope to be on our way shortly and once again apologise for the DC9, I mean delay” In the meantime we just going to fire this APU up for you to get the cabin to a nice pleasant temperature.”

“Ladies and Gentlemen from the cockpit once again we do apologise about the temperature but we seem to have picked up a little snag with our APU. Please bear with us, as it has only been broken for 3 weeks………

Note to those of you sitting upstairs having just attended the VB School of business.
Stop treating your employees like something the dog left in the driveway. Start paying attention to their legitimate complaints and do something to curb the mass exodus that you are solely responsible for. You have already lost a bunch of good pilots, cabin crew and staff. The aviation market is wide open and there hasn’t been a better time for crew to move onto greener pastures. Granted, the grass might not always be greener on the other side, but at least its getting water and is green. The smiling assassin once said “If they don’t like it they can **** off. Well they are finally listening to you and are doing just that!!! When 1time started, it was THE company to work for, now you are struggling to meet your required crew compliment because the word is out!
Stop introducing petty restrictions on your crew and start treating them as the professional body they are. Stop making endless promises to review the bonuses and then reneging on your word. Case in point “if oil reaches $60 a barrel you will get bonuses” Then coming up with some other market related variable as an excuse to **** your crew some more. Stop buying antiquated, clapped out DC9 – 10’s because you got them for a steal. Like it or not you are now competing against 738’s and your passengers (those people that pay for your extended lunches) are also not idiots and will also migrate to a better service. You have lost 2 chief pilots, numerous cockpit crew and umpteen-cabin crew and the only rebuttal you can come up with is to send out threatening letters of law suites. You should be ashamed of yourselves and apologise to each and every one of your employees for creating the unpleasant situation that 1time now finds itself in.

I’m off for a drink, but shall choose a bar far from the office and use my own hard earned cash. Anyone care to join me?

boypilot

1st Dec 2006, 17:33

Imustbemad-Never was a story more truthfully told! WELL DONE !!!! :ok:

stop&go

1st Dec 2006, 19:05

I Mad you have banged the nail on its head.:ok:Well said young man, but as I said before, 'Big Cats don't change their spots'.:=

jojojett

1st Dec 2006, 19:18

Word of advice to the pilots at 1Time... Take your skills somewhere else. The world aviation market is opening wide open to guys of your calibre. No need to work for a bunch of wannabees who couldn't tell the difference between their a** and a hole in the ground! To potential 1Time pilots (if there is still such a thing out there)... DFWI (dont f*** with it). Eject! Eject! Eject!

orgasmotron

2nd Dec 2006, 05:57

It seems that the managment strategy and structure at 1time is not what it should be. Surely the Director Flight Ops are responsible for crew issues, recruitment, etc. as well as for maintaining the overall operational standard. In a previous thread, 1time was discussed for hauling pilots onto the red carpet for refusing to fly unserviceable aircraft or outside FDP. Surely the DFO should put a stop to that kind of reckless behaviour. Staff problems start at the top and work there way down. The sad part is, that all very succesfull companies and airlines have 1 thing in common - good staff relationships and sound HR management (which should be headed up by experienced specialists). You need to offer professional pilots or other professionally qualified personal a competitive remunaration package (Well thought out salary scales, annual incerases, longivety rewards, perks as per seniority and qualifications etc) , good long term career prospects and a stable working environment that manages fatique and stress (Stable and well planned rosters, quality time off). If not they will leave as soon as the market allows. Aren't one of the directors a pilot as well?.Surely if he does not understand these principles, he has either forgotten where he came from or are too busy servicing other agendas to care about a bunch of silly pilots.

Good luck to the oaks remaining. I believe the oaks leaving don't care much about training bonds, they just want to get out. Maybe the resigned Chief Pilot can shed some light on the subject. Have heard of the rated pilots that came from Sunair (red) and Millionair have left anyway (I knew most of them). Don't know how are they going to fight the opposition when they have a huge fight going on within, especially with their front line staff holding the biggest operating expense in their grubby little paws !

glorybusdriver

2nd Dec 2006, 13:06

I know few guys flying for 1time, believe or not, they actauly getting a bonus this year they said, but the for the guys who resigned this year, like the chief pilot will not get a bonus, thats so wrong! Isn't a bonus based on your performance during the year, or like 1 time during the last 2 years doing over 950 hrs a year???. Guys must get the Sunday times this sunday, 1 time looking for captains. Poor First officers, 1 time dont even look their own guys, parently they are all too young. The poor guys also dont get weekends, I know, I've tried a couple of times to invite my friends for a braai, but the cant come around cause they flying, their weekends are on Mondays and Tuesdays. All the best for the 1 time pilots, and the future captains that will join them sortly.:D

lipstick

3rd Dec 2006, 20:14

FFFrentit

5th Dec 2006, 10:36

I'd say 1Time is clearly in financial poo-poo. Selling shares and listing on the JSE are definite signs of cash flow problems. It's no secret that they've had a rather "limited" bank balance from day one. And now that there's new pressure from another player in the market, I'm sure 1Time's management are starting to feel the strain:ouch: .

1Time got off to a very good start mainly because the crew were all fresh and motivated:), the first chief pilot was extremely dynamic, the market was ready for a change and they had access to cheap aircraft and type rated crew.

Being the front line to the public, cabin crew are instrumental in convincing passengers to come back a second time. Cockpit crew have a great influence on operating costs, eg fuel burns, brake usage, etc. Both the cockpit and cabin crew put a major effort into getting the airline going - as did everybody else that was involved - and were prepared to go the extra mile for the company, by working long hours, getting little time off, etc. However, as time rolled on and management got a little more comfortable with their environment, a very clear disregard for those who drive their operation forward became apparent.

How can you treat people who have such a huge influence on your airline so badly Mr O and Co? Maybe worrying too much about your own personal wealth and not the welfare of those that you employ? Or maybe you just forgot about them in the mad dash to those wonderful pub lunches!

There has long been an attitude of "shake a tree and more will drop out" when it comes to crew retention at 1Time. Well, those days have gone := - the guys and girls are voting with their feet and 1Time is struggling to get experienced people to replace them. Mr O you are not dealing with a bunch of 19 year call center staff, who are only filling a gap year with your company - you are dealing with adult, professional people who have made aviation their career! You can not expect them to put up with your bad attitude and poor working conditions and expect loyalty from them.

Don't think that the bonus (only a few years late!) will convince your crew to stay. They'll happily take the money, but still keep looking for a better job. It's too late to convince your "old" crew that you actually do mean well, Mr O (after all, leopards never change their spots!), but it might be an idea to start treating them humanely and some of the "new" guys might be prepared to stay on and make things work for you. Start off by changing your mentality and that of your managers from "dealing with a bunch of bus drivers" to "these are professional people that we need to motivate and get the best from". Professional respect might be a good concept to embrace!:D

Oh yes! Nearly forgot - serviceable aircraft, proper training, competant / qualified managers, decent crew meals, stable rosters, a weekend off now and then, the promised 75 hours a month, the promised profit share / bonus, market related salary increases, decent rebate policy, realistic leave policy and correct crewing levels might help as well.

Mr O, I have no doubt that if 1Time goes under, you and your cronies upstairs will land on your feet and probably pop up again somewhere. It's for the sake of your crew - my mates - that I hope you keep the company going and turn it into the successful airline it once was that everyone wanted to work for.

Speedometer

5th Dec 2006, 11:40

I have been following this for quite some time and it is really getting juicy. I would argue the point of 1time being in financial poo-poo. The stock exchange has strict entry regulations and 1time's financials will be subject to close scrutiny. Believe me, when we listed there were a lot of due diligence audits. The recent investor also would not throw good money if they do not believe in 1time's future. What is happening here i suspect is 1time recapitalizing itself to fund future (or even past) growth. I am not convinced that they will expand aggressively but suspect that possibly they will upgrade the fleet or consolidate the operations in general. We were astonished by their growth and my chums at 1time acknowledge that there are some growing pains but that is just part of the territory. Ok, so mr O seems to be a bit tight (maybe he has SSS) but that is what a business needs in a competitive environment with volatile business drivers like fuel. When Mr O worked for us he was highly respected and the guys were very emotive when he left. Why does the happy guys at 1time not air their opinions - that includes you Mr F.

Romeo E.T.

5th Dec 2006, 15:45

Speedometer

I have been following this for quite some time and it is really getting juicy. I would argue the point of 1time being in financial poo-poo. The stock exchange has strict entry regulations and 1time's financials will be subject to close scrutiny. Believe me, when we listed there were a lot of due diligence audits. The recent investor also would not throw good money if they do not believe in 1time's future. What is happening here i suspect is 1time recapitalizing itself to fund future (or even past) growth. I am not convinced that they will expand aggressively but suspect that possibly they will upgrade the fleet or consolidate the operations in general. We were astonished by their growth and my chums at 1time acknowledge that there are some growing pains but that is just part of the territory. Ok, so mr O seems to be a bit tight (maybe he has SSS) but that is what a business needs in a competitive environment with volatile business drivers like fuel. When Mr O worked for us he was highly respected and the guys were very emotive when he left. Why does the happy guys at 1time not air their opinions - that includes you Mr F.

I agree with your statement....to be able to list on the JSE as 1Time is planning to do means that the company is financially sound but needs a "capital injection" to fund further expansion...maybe this is why the impression of under payment/over-worked/no bonuses etc is managements way of trying to get the financial statements "over the top" so as to qualify for JSE listing.

Deskjocky

6th Dec 2006, 07:33

I would like to believe all that has been written in the last couple of posts- there are some good folk at 1T and it be a pity to see any of them out of work, although I’m sure that they would be sorted out pretty quickly.

Having worked for a brilliant airline ( Sun Air – the original one) and seen it go bust- even with money in the bank, I’ve come to realise that this business is a fickle one. Fundamentally the problem 1T has is its capacity for growth- look at what’s just happened- they had to flog 15% of the company and agree to lease the buyers aircraft just to get a bit of growth going. So what kind of deal is going to be done for the next aircraft?

The facts don’t lie, you cant operate on a shoe string- sad but true.

Speedometer

7th Dec 2006, 06:00

:=A listing on the JSE does not necessarily generate cash for the company. Current shareholders sell their shares to the public and they are the ones that receive the proceeds. Only if there is a rights issue (i.e. additional shares issued) incorporated in the listing will the company accrue the proceeds. I do not recall that it was mentioned but it is a possibility:ok:.

JeanJacquesBurnel

9th Dec 2006, 20:57

Why does the happy guys at 1time not air their opinions

Well, I'm one of the happy guys at 1time. Been there for close on 2 years and am finding it just as fun as I did when I joined. I'm amazed with some of the previous posts that some of our pilots have so many negative comments to make about the airline without finding a single positive thing to say... Very suspicious... I'm thankful to fly nice aircraft, with fun people. Yes the roster can be a little frustrating at times, but I've been in another airline, and, quite frankly, I don't see much difference in the end result. We all want weekends off, and we all want to be able to go to exactly those parties we want to go to and that is final. Didn't work like that at my last ailine, and hasn't happened here at 1Time either. Maybe I'm just more realistic in my expectation.

My logbook says I did 842 hours in the last 12 months - not too bad at all really...

When I arrived 2 years ago, 1Time handed out a bonus that I wasn't entitled to. This time round, I did get one. Yay! And a raise. Yay!

Sure, it's not a perfect airline, but I'm just as happy 2 years on as when I arrived. I just choose to come to work happy, it's easier for me.

Sure, I'm not flying Full EFIS cockpits around, but I've done that too. If you are bored with a DC9, pushing 'Enter' on an 800 is going to have you bored in 6 months - tops.

Choose to be happy guys...

Deskjocky

10th Dec 2006, 11:56

Nice to hear both sides of the story:ok:

boypilot

10th Dec 2006, 15:35

you must be the south african reincarnation of a certain famous american aviator who broke the sound barrier all that time ago -

I fear only he would have relished the thought of tackling thunderstorms without an adequate weather radar := ,uncoupled monitored approaches to coastal destinations := ( ie HAND FLOWN TO MININA) IN A 40 YEAR OLD DC9!- often twice in a day !!!!:=

One shudders to think what the fare paying passenger would think if they really knew what their consumer rand was buying them to east london!!

since you have a full 2 years service guess you were'nt part of the original clan and hence all those empty promises clearly didnt't fall on ypur ears.

Get a life ! Open those ears and eyes and start thinking like an AIRLINE pilot !:ugh: People like you are so much a part of the problem you self righteous w:mad: ker !

FO Gyro

10th Dec 2006, 20:44

Boypilot relax, not all pilots get to fly full EFIS equipped aircraft, and land with their bum in the butter! At least our friend at 1Time is making the best of his situation, instead of moaning and complaining like so many others do.

Admittedly modern aircraft are safer, but that's why the older generation aircraft don't fly down to CAT 111 minima.

TownshipDog

11th Dec 2006, 07:44

Boypilot:
Can you imagine that, a pilot having to handfly an aircraft down to minima, wow, what will they think of next? Isn't that what pilots do? FLY aeroplanes? Thats why we do all that training/sim time etc. It is not so we can manipulate the autopilot, it so we can actually do what we are supposed to and that is fly the aeroplane in adverse weather, IMC etc.
Real pilots fly aeroplanes with their hands, they aren't glorified computer programmers. Having flown a successful fully coupled approach is about as exciting and fullfilling as successfully picking up a prostitute; anyone can do it, no matter what their skill level :}

I bet you are one of those guys who sits around the braai at parties and goes, 'yea babe, you should have seen it, I had to program the autopilot to do an approach into PE today....TWICE...phew, tough day at work hey, pass me another Peroni"

Another thing, as far as I understand the 1time a/c are all built in the 80's, not in the 60's...I haven't noticed any Comets or 707's sitting on the apron painted red lately...

Off to go FLY now, later guys...

imustbemad

11th Dec 2006, 07:54

Ease up there bp. That last post was a bit on the harsh side and misdirected. The original spread was about pilot resignations due to managements apathy toward their employees. Most pilots at 1time are not happy with the way they are being treated but if jj is happy with his working conditions then good luck to him. He is fully entitled to his opinion even if it isn't shared by many. I just hope that the smiling assassin, his two yapping sidekicks and the Director of flight ops do something to keep jj smiling but who we kidding....
I don't think this post was ever intended to turn into a personal attack on fellow pilots, especially those flying the diesels. Each and everyone of the pilots at 1time are gentlemen. Pity we can't say the same for the crowd upstairs. In fact they will probably devote more time to finding out who amongst their crew are bad mouthing them on this forum than they will trying to sort out the morale issues at 1time.

bp, get jjb to buy you a beer on your next nightstop, he can afford it now, but don't forget to sign the bill at least 8 hours before sign on. Shouldn't be a problem with the generous layover times afforded to the crew.

Forget not who control those very thirsty thrust levers at altitude.

P.S. Anyone figured out how long to keep the diesel at M0.8 to make up for the sandwich you just paid for yet?

I.R.PIRATE

11th Dec 2006, 10:33

and besides, the type of pilot you are is not determined by how much aeroplane fly, rather by how you fly the aircraft you are serving on. I would much rather fly with chaps who are extremely proficient at ahnd flying than with a guy who has not actually manipulated the controls in months except for rotating and flaring...

beechbum

11th Dec 2006, 11:33

Well then you are now discounting the majority of airlines in the world as many state in their procedures that the autopilot is recommended to be engaged at 500' AGL after take off and disconnected at 500' on final approach. Its strange though as when sim recurrency is due that hands on skills are diminished and the old saying of the only time I was on the localiser is when I shot through it becomes more prevalent......
It seems though that automation since it does in fact do a better job is taking our basic skills away from us.....and has nothing to do with us as pilots, but generally procedures laid down by our operators!!!!!
This is way off topic............but anyway!!! :ok:

bianchi

11th Dec 2006, 11:58

Beechbum says:

"This is way off topic............but anyway!!! :ok:"
I agree 100% with Beechbum's above qoute, but then again that's what happen when you handfly an aircraft under difficult conditions......."you drift of the topic".

Handflying and aircraft should be another thread,this is about the"the Red company" looses there pilots to other operators.

beechbum

11th Dec 2006, 12:04

bianchi...you right chap. Tend to lose the plot hand flying un der extreme conditions......:rolleyes:
Now fellas back to the topic at hand. Any idea where 1-Time's chiefie went to...no one has actually mentioned anything yet (I think)
Anyway catch ya next time............ :ok:

imustbemad

11th Dec 2006, 13:10

Heard that the soon to be Chief Pilot is going corporate. Good luck to him. Question now is who are they going to replace him with? My money is on the DFO who happens to have a financial interest in the company.That way they can keep all their cards very close at hand and what little representation the pilot body had (through no fault of the departing Chief Pilot) can be further eroded. Also heard that the recent ad placed for Captains solicited minimal interest. I guess you reap what you sow!!!

jjb: nothing suspicious about the guys not having anything positive to say. A person can only remain positive for so long but once the vaseline runs out the smile dissapears. Glad to hear that you are happy at 1time and hope that you stay that way but the smiling assassin, his two yapping sidekicks and apathy toward crew will no doubt take care of that in time. I hope I'm wrong.
bp: A bit harsh to attack jjb for airing his opinion. This spread is about the way the boys upstairs are treating their crew. We as pilots should be out drinking beer together not attacking each other over differing opinions.

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 17:03

..but don't forget to sign the bill at least 8 hours before sign on. Shouldn't be a problem with the generous layover times afforded to the crew...

@imustbemad : Your little dig about signing the bill at least 8 hours before sign on is a clear dig at the two pilots who were "dismissed" earlier this year in a "related" incident. You do ALL 1time pilots a discredit by trying to justify the behaviour of the two concerned people, and to try insinuate that the incident was related to layover times being too short. Need I remind you that the two pilots concerned held the following morning's flight up by over and hour, the co-pilot flew the whole day minus shoes!!!!!, and that the airline lost a major corporate client over the fiasco. It was monumental lack of judgement from the pilots concerned - I wouldnt want either of them flying me around given their total disregard for passenger safety...

?. Guys must get the Sunday times this sunday, 1 time looking for captains. Poor First officers, 1 time dont even look their own guys, parently they are all too young.

@glorybusdriver : Your information is wrong. All the First Officers that were eligle for command got it - 3 people if I am not mistaken. The balance of the FOs who would have otherwise been eligle for command did not get it for a very simple reason : they do not have ATPs, or in the case of one individual, do not have South African ATPs. I believe all FOs concerned have been with the airline since day 1 (I may be mistaken here), and come from Millionaire days. They have had adequate opportunity to get their ATPs sorted but none have managed yet. These are the same FOs that are complaining that they are "so hard done by".... They dont leave because they cant ;)

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 17:34

Boypilot:
Another thing, as far as I understand the 1time a/c are all built in the 80's, not in the 60's...I haven't noticed any Comets or 707's sitting on the apron painted red lately...

Off to go FLY now, later guys...

Actually, the one thing boypilot is right about, is the age of ONE of the planes. ZS-ANX is 40 years old, and apparently does have a crap radar. As far as I am aware though, its NOT used often on coastal routes - it mainly does Jozi - Bloem. Apparently its also about to get its radar replaced with one from one of the decom'ed DC-9s (NRA/NRB/NRC).

Here are the active fleet details for interests sake :

ZS-ANX - DC9-15 - MSN45799 - 1st FLIGHT 26-10-66
ZS-NNN - DC9-30 - MSN47516 - 1st FLIGHT 11-05-71
ZS-TRD - DC9-82 - MSN48022 - 1st FLIGHT 21-09-82
ZS-TRE - DC9-82 - MSN49387 - 1st FLIGHT 04-06-88
ZS-OPZ - DC9-83 - MSN49617 - 1st FLIGHT 06-04-88
ZS-OPX - DC9-83 - MSN53012 - 1st FLIGHT 01-06-90

OPZ and OPX are leased from Safair.

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 17:51

I agree with your statement....to be able to list on the JSE as 1Time is planning to do means that the company is financially sound but needs a "capital injection" to fund further expansion...maybe this is why the impression of under payment/over-worked/no bonuses etc is managements way of trying to get the financial statements "over the top" so as to qualify for JSE listing.

Erm, investors are not stupid. Since the dot com bust and recent Enron swindles, investors, in particular those that invest in the aviation industry, have become very shrewd. There are also certain auditing requirements that a company must comply with before they can list, particularly if you look abroad (regulations such as SOX etc). There are not hoards of people out there waiting to throw good money after bad. What investors are looking for are things like good corporate governance (1time scores highly here - Mr O keeps his finger tightly on the pulse, whether it pleases the pilots or not), market leadership, competition (threats), the amount of years its going to take before the dividends pay the investment back, cash flow, capital invested and return on capital invested, and goodwill. In addition, all listed companies have to produce an annual report according to the (for the moment at least) the GAAP standards. In this report, remuneration at a director level is fully disclosed, plus all interests. Legal compliancy is also disclosed, and as a member of the public or a 1time employee, you will be able to see what is disclosed and challenge it if you feel its misrepresentative or wrong (for example, if the pilots are working more than the legal maximum hours). With regards to the pay issues surrounding pilots - one word for people complaining - amico...

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 18:00

Countingteeth.....check ZS-TRE's first flight date.....????

oops, sorted :) sticky fingers - it should be 1988. Thanks!

JeanJacquesBurnel

11th Dec 2006, 18:11

People like you are so much a part of the problem you self righteous w:mad: ker !

Ooooh! Eh! Eh! Obviously we all HAVE to agree with boypilot's post otherwise he feels the need to get rude...

Ok, ok, I give in.... 1Time is an utterly useless airline and I am a fool to work there. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa I will start thrashing myself senseless just as soon as I have apologised for having a civilized opinion.

Damn! I'm sure going to miss those MD83's that I fly mostly...

jojojett

11th Dec 2006, 19:33

JJB, without getting "rude", may I suggest that you ARE part of the problem at 1Time? As long as there are members of the pilot body who do just blindly "toe the line" for management, by flying not so legal hours and clearly unseviceable aircraft without standing up and protesting, then said management WILL expect it of all the pilots, all the time, thereby creating a VERY dangerous culture within the airline.
If you think for one minute that the people upstairs have your interests at heart at all then, I fear you are sadly mistaken, the minute the brown stuff hits the fan, they will wash their hands and hang you out to dry. Flying in those conditions without constantly asking questions and raising flags is not only criminally stupid, but just plain dangerous. Wake up mate, NOBODY is going to give you a noddy-badge or think you're a "hero" for suffering that kind of negligence in silence. Bottom line: you have to cover your own arse and look after your own licence, and the only way to do that is by haing a strongly represented pilot body, not by trying to impress the people that care less for you than snakesh@#t.
To the pilots at 1Time, keep up the work guys, make the bean counters answerable to the blatant disregard for the safety of their passangers and crew. The question of safety in aviation will NEVER be addressed adequately as long as a few (self serving) pilots continually disregard the very rules that are there for there own safety (maybe that was the reason you got a bonus that you weren't entitled to??).
I say; if you want to be some kind of "war-hero", great, go do it in a single seater, far away from innocent people, nobody really cares. Don't, however, stroke your ego whilst endangering other people.:=

Dexterdawg

11th Dec 2006, 21:14

Well said jojo, its high time pilots in SA start thinking as a group and not only as individuals. I have a pretty good idea who our friend above is and can only say that everyone knows who can be called on by management when they need someone who will bend/break/disregard the law when it suits management. Enough said.
As far as the comment by counting teeth regarding the two pilots who were fired, sure they got what they deserved, couldnt agree more. However.. if the esteemed management got what they deserved for the blatant violations of the law goes, well then they should be sitting in the slammer right now! You cant only obey rules when it suits you fellas.:=
As to losing corporate clients because of the above incident, well lets see, if I had a corporate account with 1Time, I'd also cancel it! Not because of anything else other than I wouldnt want my staff subjected to unpredictable schedules due to technicals. And lets not forget the sterling job the commercial manager does (from the pub):yuk: Know of more than 1 client cancelling due to bad service then not being able to contact said manager.

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 21:54

I have a pretty good idea who our friend above is and can only say that everyone knows who can be called on by management when they need someone who will bend/break/disregard the law when it suits management. Enough said.

@Dexterdawg : What are you saying? That 1time pilots are aiding and abbetting the breaking of the law? I assume you can back this up with hard cold facts? If you cant, what you have just stated constitutes at minimum slander, more than likely libel. People are allowed to have different opions mate.. Need I remind you that the majority governing opinion in this country 15 years ago believed apartheid was right. If you disagreed with general consensus, where you, to quote boypilot, a w@nk3r?

countingteeth

11th Dec 2006, 22:02

....The question of safety in aviation will NEVER be addressed adequately as long as a few (self serving) pilots continually disregard the very rules that are there for there own safety (maybe that was the reason you got a bonus that you weren't entitled to??).....

@jojojett : what are you saying? that the above mentioned person got a bonus because he was self serving and continually disregarding safety rules? What makes you think he wasnt entitled to the bonus? My interpretation from the post is that he has been with the airline 2 years and got the annual bonus just like ALL the other staff got. Everyone got bonuses except the people who had resigned before the bonus was announced (which might I add is a standard industry practice)!

If we are to judge 1time pilots by your criteria, then considering that they all got bonuses, they all disregard safety for personal gain. Hardly a fair judgement eh?

May I suggest that you check your facts before posting ;)

4HolerPoler

12th Dec 2006, 04:55

Facts :confused: Slander :zzz: Libel :E This is a rumor site bud and as long as someone ain't making a specific indivdual attack on another then anything goes and all opinions are welcome.

Carry on guys.

4HP

Fliterisk

12th Dec 2006, 05:30

This is a damned if you do and damned if you dont situation. CP has gone corporate and seems that it was a whole lot of reasons, not only the "issues" at 1Time... I know of alot of guys who want to do that when they get older.. airlines are not the be all and end all everyone :\ :\ :\

You are damned if you do and dont in this situation. The 1Time guys IMHO were the best bunch in SA... I cannot imagine anyone of them willingly breaking the law. The problem with the airline industry in SA, is not the VB of Nationwide, management of 1Time or anything else, its the difficulty in making a living due to the highly competitive (read it as you want) nature of the industry... ANY new airline in SA will start squeezing somewhere, and where better in 1Time than the pilots - who were initially earning relatively good salaries.... they gotta make ends meet, and unfotunately that means doing the wrong things alot of the time!!!:{ :{

We should stop comparing regionals to global carriers... they are playing by different rules... I am not condoning it rather highlighting the problem...

Good luck to all the 1Time'ers... you are better than this, and will find jobs elsewhere...:ok:

Speedometer

12th Dec 2006, 06:48

Ok already. Lets have some pride! Bitc:mad:ing like a bunch of ladies. Fair and well to have an opinion but an inherent weakness of this process is that we all stay anonymous. Mandate goes hand in hand with responsibility. Quoting the Iron law: If you have power, use it responsibly, or it will bite you!

I disagree with "lets stand together". Are we woosies? There are enough market mechanics that will ensure our "survival". It works for the rest of the world. If I have a problem with my management I advise them accordingly. Never have i been victimised because of that, in fact I gained their respect - that is if one's argument is reasonable/ valid / legit.

JeanJacquesBurnel

12th Dec 2006, 08:33

Jeeze guys! Such anger!

Those of you who are bitching about the managements blatant disregard blah, blah and are still in the company should stick to your guns, and ground the aircraft. Why must I be the one to do it? If you feel that flying these aircraft is absolutely unsafe, why do you fly them? You want ME to stop being a management lackey, (Yeah, I'm in Glens office all the time....didn't even know who Graeme Patterson was until that last pilot's meeting....) but you seem to be coming to work every day to fly the same aircraft that I do, so what are we supposed to deduct from that?

I know I'm a bit of a simpleton, and I don't always see the big picture. I'm just a simple pilot who really enjoys my job. Sorry my statements to that effect have lead to such a stampede of anger, but the thing is - I'm just blissfully happy! Sorry that pisses some of you off so much.

imustbemad

12th Dec 2006, 09:59

Dentures
Get real! I fail to see how me suggesting you sign your bar bill at least 8 hours before sign on does the pilot body of 1time a diservice.:bored: I do not an any way condone the action of the 2 pilots involved in the incident you speak of.
The pilots involved in that incident readily admitted that they had screwed up and duly left with their tails between their legs. The 2 pilots just so happened to be instrumental in trying to get the pilots at 1time unionised prior to this and it was an open fact how management felt about that. Similar related incidents occured in the past with another crew member and he was given a slap on the wrist and sent back out on the line. Granted he was eventually given his marching orders and deservedly so. So the question begs, how much did the unionisation attempt have to do with their dismissal

Dentures, If you are so concerned about the pilots and how they are viewed by all reading this post then maybe YOU should start treating them a little better because at this stage YOU are the one doing them a diservice. Its only too obvious which office your letter originates from.
Once again Dentures, and you don't have to read between the lines on this. The pilots at 1time are a fantastic bunch of guys and their management should be doing whatever they can to keep them.
Unfortunately it appears that there are divisions forming in the pilot body which is realy sad, because the only good thing left at the company is the fellow crew to work with. Fortunately the only time they have to deal with you is when they have a pilots meeting filled with empty promises. Although those meetings are few and far between and poorly attended due to the realisation that they amount to nothing and are just a waste of a day off....... which are also few and far between...

Touch n Go

12th Dec 2006, 10:12

Frankly I':sad: m Gobsmacked

I have read this thread with interest, and I am surprised at the approach of so called professional people.

I am a frequent customer of 1time, which is my only involvement with the airline. I cannot believe what I am reading. This kind of bickering does not belong in an industry where innocent lives are at stake.

There seems to be a problem in 1time which management are not addressing. There are routes according to law which one can take to ensure the employer does not abuse the employee, and to ensure the promises made are kept. As you are all professionals, one could assume that the promises that got you all so excited were agreed to in writing. Great, there is recourse in terms of the law. Use it!
If you did not get the promises made in writing, may I suggest that you go and abuse a mirror, because professional people, contracts are made on paper to protect all parties involved. Gone are the days in this me/myself world where a hand shake is good enough.
Obvious to me is the fact that, so called professionals prefer to slander their employer on a public forum, instead of using the channels provided to them by law. Why?
Why slate someone who obviously is happy with his employer. Is it because he does not agree with your own view point?

If the airline is cutting corners, in maintaining the aircraft, and allowing aircraft to be flown in an un-airworthy condition, it is criminal activity that should be harshly punished.
If any pilot has information to that regard, and can back it up with proof, then it is the responsibility of that pilot to report the crime to the relevant authorities. Failure to do this, Mr. Professional pilot is criminal activity and puts you in the same position as the organization that is knowingly cutting corners.
Can you live with yourself if you know the aircraft are not airworthy, but choose to keep quiet and the aircraft falls out of the sky? All because you feel hard done by? Where I ask is the professionalism?
Is there real truth in the allegations being made on this thread, or are you trying to hit hard at the CEO, with whom you may have a personal vendetta? Perhaps you are an FO who was not promoted? I neither know nor care. Someone posted here that this is a rumor forum and I understand and respect that, and I understand that it is your right to post your feelings, great. What South Africans have forgotten, or maybe not have been taught, is that with rights comes responsibility, and even if you have a personal issue with a person or persons within the company, you as a professional person have the responsibility to uphold the companies image in the eyes of the public, except if the company is involved in criminal activities and putting their customers at risk. Then you have the responsibility of blowing the whistle, at whatever the personal cost.
If you have no proof but are speculating, drop it. Sort your problem you have with whomever man to man, and get on with being a professional. You have a responsibility as an employee to ensure the success of the airline that employed you.

With regard to the comment about hand flying aircraft in bad WX conditions, well you are professional people. The decision to go not go ultimately rests with the PIC. It is your responsibility to make the correct call. Frankly I would rather have a pilot upfront than a computer wiz, because when the computer goes pear shaped the pilot actually has experience in what needs to be done.

I shall be watching this thread, as well as the airline

countingteeth

12th Dec 2006, 13:40

...Dentures..

LOL. Get real?? Who, me? Do you give all people who disagree with you stupid insultory nicknames? Have you got nothing better to say to me than to just insult me? Not very mature, I hope u r not in command at 1time... because THAT frightens me more than anything that has been said on this forum.

To clear some things up for you : I do not work for 1time. I have never worked for 1time. Apart from giving legal counsel to a 1time employee who was facing disciplinary action, I have had nothing to do with the airline other than being a customer. From a customer's perspective, I am and always have been very pleased with the level of service and professionalism I encounter when I fly 1time.

Now, if you feel 1time is unsafe and breaking the law, why don't you do something about it instead of whining anonymously on an internet forum. Why dont you leave and go to SAA or Comair? Whats wrong, they reject you too? I bet you go work everyday and smile at the bosses, while calling them silly names under your breath. Develop a back bone. Hell, PM me your contact details, I will even sponsor your legal fees for you. Put your money where you mouth is!

imustbemad

12th Dec 2006, 14:16

Apart from giving legal counsel to a 1time employee
For a legal counselor you do tend to go off half cocked

From a customer's perspective, I am and always have been very pleased with the level of service and professionalism I encounter when I fly 1time.
And so you should. That level of service and proffesionalism you recieve is from the very same people that slave away for unappreciative bosses that this forum is trying to defend. Included in that group would be same co pilots you claim don't leave because they can't.

Now, if you feel 1time is unsafe and breaking the law, why don't you do something about it

I must be suffering from short term memory loss because I don't recall ever having said anything along those lines. Please scroll back, find the post and point it out to me and I shall offer my humble apologies.

Why dont you leave and go to SAA or Comair?
There is a saying in aviation. "assumption is the mother of all :mad: ups"
You my learned legal friend are assuming that I WANT to go to above mentioned airlines. You are also assuming that I work for 1time. In fact you are assuming that I am a Pilot.
Now answer yourself this question..... would you want a legal counselor that assumes so much with so few facts to represent you, even if his services were offered free of charge???

smile at the bosses, while calling them silly names under your breath
Silly names would be way too complimentary.

Develop a backbone.
My back bone is well developed thanks for your concern. Its develped enough to admit that I erred in thinking you were part of 1times esteemed management team. Now while I don't consider anything I said to you in my previous post an insult, calling you a 1time manager certainly is an insult. For that I apologise.

Lastly, allow me to commend you on your intimate knowledge of the airline for someone whos only dealing with the company is as a customer.

oh and "have a nice day"

last time hostee

12th Dec 2006, 14:19

So true and really sad. The company has really changed, and for the worst! But on that great article, dont forget the nightstop bags that we were given "as a token of our appreciation for all your hard work over the last year" which you have to return when you leave!!! Good luck to AS, he's an awsome guy, its been a pleasure working with him as long as i did,
But more than that, good luck to everyone that hasn't left yet....

countingteeth

12th Dec 2006, 14:52

..For a legal counselor you do tend to go off half cocked...

Who said I was a legal counselor? I gave legal counsel - that doesnt mean that I am a practising lawyer... But then again, as the moderator pointed out earlier in this thread, this is a rumour site so "facts" do not have to be substantiated.

...That level of service and proffesionalism you recieve is from the very same people that slave away for unappreciative bosses that this forum is trying to defend...

I fully accept and acknowledge the level of professionalism displayed by 1time staff, particularly the air crew. Where do you see me defending the "bosses"? If you knew me, you would know that the opposite applies. But accusations need to backed by fact to have any meaning, otherwise they will forever be -- rumours.

...I must be suffering from short term memory loss...

Be sure to mention that at your next medical :}

...because I don't recall ever having said anything along those lines. Please scroll back, find the post and point it out to me and I shall offer my humble apologies...

You are quite correct, you never did. My apologies. But I did say "if", I never said you "did"... ;) Legal symantecs.... ;)

...There is a saying in aviation. "assumption is the mother of all :mad: ups"
You my learned legal friend are assuming that I WANT to go to above mentioned airlines. You are also assuming that I work for 1time. In fact you are assuming that I am a Pilot.
Now answer yourself this question..... would you want a legal counselor that assumes so much with so few facts to represent you, even if his services were offered free of charge???...

This is a rumour site. I am free to make assumptions as I please. If you can assume that I am a lawyer, hey, I can assume you are a 1time pilot. If you can assume that I am defending the bosses, I can assume that you want to work for SAA (I mean who wouldnt want to? If the statements in this thread are anything to go by, 1time is a crap place to work, and they pay crap. SAA work less hours for more pay - now thats a fact :) )

Oh, and by the way, the 1time staff member who sought my counsel, won the case against the "bosses"... Facts speak louder than words...

Oh, and I offered to pay your legal fees, not represent you. Who said I was a lawyer? Careful about assumptions... Anyways, lawyers dont earn nearly as much $$$ as I do...

...oh and "have a nice day"...

I plan to ;) You too mate. Choose to be happy! Its only work!

imustbemad

12th Dec 2006, 16:21

... Anyways, lawyers dont earn nearly as much $$$ as I do...

Good then you can sign the next bar bill

Dexterdawg

18th Dec 2006, 05:04

imustbemad

18th Dec 2006, 09:28

Get the sniffer dogs out boys but don't forget to devote some time to more pressing issues at 1time. That is, if you have the time.

Here's your first clue....... Start with those that are unhappy with the way you are handling things.
Now lets see............. how many does that leave

Well done, you've just narrowed it down to EVERYBODY

HAPPY HUNTING:suspect:

countingteeth

20th Dec 2006, 17:24

Just heard that there's a MAJOR witch-hunt on the go at 1Time for the pilots who had the absolute cheek of criticizing the esteemed management, on a public forum at that! Well Mr.O and co., if you kick your dog in private, he will bite you in public. Question is, what will they do to said pilots when/if they find out who they are? Fire them? Think not! Bit short on the numbers department for that. Slap them with a libel suit? Think not. Not a judge in the country who wouldnt wet himself laughing, plus, that would probably open a can of worms that the "bar-room band" would rather keep tightly closed. All I can say is viva free speech! Keep on shouting boys!:D

Well there is a very fine line between criticism and libel...

The Criminal Procedure Act defines Criminal defamation as "the unlawful and intentional publication of matter concerning another that tends seriously to injure his reputation". When its verbal, its slander, and when written, its libel. The onus would be on you to prove that everything you have stated is true - no innocent till proven guilty with defamation... the burden of proof is with the defendant. Whilst I dont believe what has been stated on this forum would stand up in criminal proceedings, I do believe that it would be sufficient to dismiss an employee because of the intent. If at any time the management of 1time can prove your identity on this forum, your career at 1time would effectively be over. Now, as to getting hold of your real identity, it is legally possible (although unlikely that any individual would go through the legal expenses getting this done). Bearing this in mind, I would encourage every one of you in this thread to please use a little common sense when posting defaming comments on internet forums as its not as "anonymous" as you may think, legally is may be considered as "hate speech", and there is no constitutional "freedom of speech" right to protect you.

Let me expand on the freedom of speech for you a bit. Firstly, its not "Freedom of speech", its "Freedom of Expression". Freedom of expression is a wider concept than Freedom of speech and covers stuff like marching, holding up banners etc etc. There are 3 specific exclusions when this constitutional right is voided : 1. propoganda for war, 2. Incitement of violence, and 3. Hate Speech.

To elaborate, the criminal act of "criminal defamation" that I mentioned earlier is considered "Hate Speech" by many judges, although I must state here that the case law has not been firmly established yet.

you can get more info about Freedom of Expression in Section 16(1) and Section 16(2) in the constitution.

In summary, I would like to again encourage you to think before you speak, and if you have a case backed by legal fact, rather get yourself legal representation and have it sorted with the 1time mangement for once and for all. I dont think anyone is doing anyone favours defaming individuals and claiming "safety issues" and the like. The greatest injustice to society is silence in the face of adversity. Stand up and be counted.

countingteeth

20th Dec 2006, 17:28

... Anyways, lawyers dont earn nearly as much $$$ as I do...

Good then you can sign the next bar bill

Anytime! Oh, and it wont be at the Airport Garden Court, and I pay cash... ;)

Fliterisk

21st Dec 2006, 05:47

Well there is a very fine line between criticism and libel...

In summary, I would like to again encourage you to think before you speak, and if you have a case backed by legal fact, rather get yourself legal representation and have it sorted with the 1time mangement for once and for all. I dont think anyone is doing anyone favours defaming individuals and claiming "safety issues" and the like. The greatest injustice to society is silence in the face of adversity. Stand up and be counted.

Forums like Pprune have a place in aviation, particularly in SA. Fact is that its going to take a long time before the pilot is able to call the shots, even with the high demand coming through. Even more so is that in the ideal world you an get a lawyer and approach management. You are going to get canned anyway - wether your lawyer likes it or not. Other problem is that all operators (sorry, alot of) are the same. See the Nationwide thread, SAA, etc, and once word gets out that you dare question management, you will struggle to get a job.

Reality check... I very much doubt that posters identity will be disclosed, see how the forum dries up then:= := Perhaps there is a really simple solution. Management should realise there is a problem, and deal with it, not chase after the disgruntled employees... not only is it a waste of time, but there will be many more to take his/her place.... Come on, deal with the issue and not the person!!!! :ugh: :ugh:

jojojett

22nd Dec 2006, 04:26

To countingteeth: You say:, "get legal representation", well maybe with your VERY intimate knowledge of the workings of 1Time,(although you profess to not be management- whatever), maybe you can explain why then, is 1Time managment so opposed to the pilots forming a union or assosciation? On more than one occasion has formation of said union been blocked by management. This, my opinion, begs the question:
What is 1Time management so afraid of? Is it..
a) They know they have breached just about every undertaking/commitment/contract with regards the pilot body.
b) They know that a single pilot can be threatened/pressured into towing the company line whereas a union cannot.
c) They know that, when/if the day comes to "take the money and run", a union would be harder to deal with than a group of individuals.
d) All of the above.

countingteeth

22nd Dec 2006, 09:08

...with your VERY intimate knowledge of the workings of 1Time,(although you profess to not be management- whatever)...

I have stated before that I have nothing to do with 1time. If you are that keen to know who I work for, PM me and I will tell you. ;)

...maybe you can explain why then, is 1Time managment so opposed to the pilots forming a union or assosciation? On more than one occasion has formation of said union been blocked by management. This, my opinion, begs the question:
What is 1Time management so afraid of?

You are being very selective with the facts here. The formation of a union at 1time is a mute point because it will never happen. The reason it will never happen has nothing to do with the management of the airline - its got to do with the fact that a large portion of the pilot body are not employed by 1time, and have no intention of being employed by 1time because they are happily enjoying the benefits of the tax avoidance "process" that is Amico. To form a union, you must work for said company. Until you can convince every single pilot to leave Amico and join 1time, you will basically be farting against thunder. I am sure you can see where I am getting to with this - the problem with the pilot body is the pilots. Until ALL the pilots start standing together, start actually leaving Amico and joining the airline, and all agree to join the union, nothing will happen. There is no law stopping the formation of unions. 1Time management can not stop you from forming a union. Only you can ;)

One last thing about sub contracting though Amico - at any time, 1time management can refuse your services with no civil recourse. They are paying Amico for the service of a "pilot", and the contracting of you, the individual, is actually an "Amico" subcontract. In summary, you can be "fired" at anytime by 1time with no reason necessary and no explanation given. There is however a legal loop hole that you can use to protect your rights, and if any of you find yourself in this predicament, PM me and I will explain how to get yourself out of it ;)

countingteeth

22nd Dec 2006, 09:18

...Fact is that its going to take a long time before the pilot is able to call the shots, even with the high demand coming through....

And why would "the pilot" want to call the shots? Do you honestly believe the pilots would do a better job of running the airline? Bwahahahahaha. Pilot Ego :rolleyes: You work for the airline, you do NOT own it!!! Its not your money!

Remember guys, you might not like "Mr O", and you can think he is a prat or whatever, but he IS an OWNER of the airline, he IS your employer, and he has been instrumental in growing the airline to what it is today. Without him, and the "1time airline" you seem to despise so much, a whole bunch of pilots would be out of work, and the "labour shortage" so many of you seem to tout wouldnt exist. The industry is a better place for all pilots because of the existance of Mr O and his airline ;) If you dont like him, or the airline, why not just leave - go on - and take advantage of the pilot shortages....

Fliterisk

22nd Dec 2006, 11:03

And why would "the pilot" want to call the shots? Do you honestly believe the pilots would do a better job of running the airline? Bwahahahahaha. Pilot Ego :rolleyes: You work for the airline, you do NOT own it!!! Its not your money!

Remember guys, you might not like "Mr O", and you can think he is a prat or whatever, but he IS an OWNER of the airline, he IS your employer, and he has been instrumental in growing the airline to what it is today. Without him, and the "1time airline" you seem to despise so much, a whole bunch of pilots would be out of work, and the "labour shortage" so many of you seem to tout wouldnt exist. The industry is a better place for all pilots because of the existance of Mr O and his airline ;) If you dont like him, or the airline, why not just leave - go on - and take advantage of the pilot shortages....

Relax..... it wasnt meant to be taken literally. I dont work for an airline and dont own one either. I thought what I said was common sense.. I also am far from despising 1Time... its fantastic they are around, and there is alot of respect for getting to where they are right now... but come on your snipe is a little desperate.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Because someone is the owner of anything and employs people doesnt give him / her a right to treat people badly. The industry is a better place for having the likes of 1Time no question, this however is not a license to behave however you want... Chill out, dont let yourself get all worked up over this, particularly since you have no intersest in the airline...!:cool: