PDA

View Full Version : Six imams ejected from US flight (BBC)


er340790
21st Nov 2006, 18:17
"Unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslim at airports," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper.


Now I wonder why that is......?

the_flying_cop
21st Nov 2006, 18:18
why would you post something like this?
what a complete waste of bandwidth.
TFC

nosefirsteverytime
21st Nov 2006, 18:41
For Chrissake,

Post a link to the story, like I have (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6168838.stm)

Bloody amateur :ugh: :ugh:

My opine? Not much. Such things will happen.

ORAC
21st Nov 2006, 21:13
Which might look like an over-reaction by the airline. And yet, and yet...

There was a situation a couple of months ago where a pair of young British muslims were removed from a flight back from Spain. It turned out they had made a day trip and had deliberately in a suspicious manner to manufacture the incident.

Here we have a group of 6 imams who know the present level of paranoia and act they way they do. Who is at fault, and why?

G-CPTN
21st Nov 2006, 23:12
Weren't they merely offering a prayer in advance of a potentially dangerous undertaking (ie a flight)?
Many folk (including Christians) pray for deliverance safely to their destination under such circumstances.
I know that my Mother would have done (if you'd ever managed to get her into an aircraft that is . . . ).

tony draper
21st Nov 2006, 23:19
Dunno what there moaning about, not as if they were hoyed off at 20,000 feet.
:rolleyes:

Two's in
22nd Nov 2006, 01:48
I was only saying the other day to a Saudi Religious policeman (mutaween), as I was handing out wafers and wine, and offering holy communion to the locals in downtown Riyadh; "what this world needs mate, is a bit more religious tolerance, and a bit less reactionary bigotry..."

con-pilot
22nd Nov 2006, 02:10
I was only saying the other day to a Saudi Religious policeman (mutaween), as I was handing out wafers and wine, and offering holy communion to the locals in downtown Riyadh; "what this world needs mate, is a bit more religious tolerance, and a bit less reactionary bigotry..."

How are the wounds healing? :p

Ontariotech
22nd Nov 2006, 02:52
There is a time and a place for everything. This clearly wasn't the time, nor the place, to conduct what they were doing. And If I am not mistaken, airport terminals provide areas, in private, for those wishing to express their religious beliefs, prior to boarding a flight??? I could be wrong.

G-CPTN
22nd Nov 2006, 03:25
But the Pope knelt down and kissed the ground IIRC when HE got off a 'plane . . .

http://jordanmaxwell.com/images/pope2.gif

CSilvera
22nd Nov 2006, 03:45
"Unfortunately, this is a growing problem of singling out Muslims or people perceived to be Muslim at airports," said CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper.
Now I wonder why that is......? Well if anyone from CAIR said it, it must be true.

Al Fakhem
22nd Nov 2006, 04:28
But the Pope knelt down and kissed the ground IIRC when HE got off a 'plane . . .



What airline was he flying - he might have had good reason :eek:

G-CPTN
22nd Nov 2006, 04:39
Looks like Allahtalia.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
22nd Nov 2006, 05:15
What the picture doesn't show is where he just skateboarded down the handrail.


http://jordanmaxwell.com/images/pope2.gif

airspeedsalive
22nd Nov 2006, 05:18
These idots had just left an islamic conference of some sort - I suspect it was a stunt, after they'd gotten up themselves worked into a religious frenzy. Why won't they just silently pray, and not make a big production of it?
They love the attention.

vapilot2004
22nd Nov 2006, 05:50
http://h1.ripway.com/eisler99/PAX-note.jpg

A second imam, Ahmad Tafish Shqeirat, said that three of the six had prayed in the gate area, in the ritual of evening prayers, but had not meant to be disruptive and indeed had taken pains not to disturb other passengers.



Might have done well to pray in private. :hmm:

Sqwak7700
22nd Nov 2006, 10:39
"Shahin expressed frustration that — despite extensive efforts by him and other Muslim leaders since even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks — so many Americans know so little about Islam, which requires prayer five times a day."

Yeah, cause other countries like the Kingdom of Saudi (or as I like to call it, the magic Kingdom), Iran, and just about every other Muslim extremist nation have so much religious freedom. There are just so many Churches and Sinagogues all over. Oh yeah, it is just one big happy family of tolerance and understanding.

This guy should be deported back to where he came from. What efforts is this guy talking about?? Americans believe in proof...not you explaining to us why we should be understanding to your needs. Give me a break. I have needs too, like feeling comfortable that I'm not getting on a plane that is gonna divert to a building.

You want us to be understanding? Then divert your so called "efforts" to neutralizing your own extremeists. Start cracking the whip in your house and we won't have to do it for you. Show some effort to change the world's perception of Islam by educating all your extremist groups and alienating/ridiculing these alleged extremist terrorist factions like Hamaz and Hezbollah.

I'm sure that if 25 deeply religious catholic men where seen praying and discussing the King's shortcomings before getting on an airplane in Saudi right during the month of Ramadan that they would go un-noticed. They would probably get the shitt kicked out of them by the Matawa.

tony draper
22nd Nov 2006, 10:57
One wudda though the Pope would have his own Airyplane?:uhoh:

XXTSGR
22nd Nov 2006, 10:58
My my my - some people really don't understand much at all, do they?

Sqwak, your post displays too much ignorance to bother with. Take, for example, Iraq. Before The invasion, there was a very high degree of religious freedom. Thanks to the vacuum caused by the piss-poor planning, the extremists show every sign of taking over, to the detriment of everyone living there. Take Jordan, or Lebanon. Very high degrees of religious freedom and personal liberty. Or Turkey. Anyone is free to worship as they like.

You talk about "proof". Proof of what? The only proof I have seen in this thread is in your example of anti-Muslim hysteria.

And spare me the idiotic comments about Saudi every time the subject of Islam comes up. Saudi Arabia is only one country. Also Iran. Iran was driven into the hands of the extremists, as Iraq is being driven, by US and British support of an undemocratic despot.

vapilot2004
22nd Nov 2006, 12:07
I must admit, they looked reasonable enough, but so did most of the 9/11 hijackers.

US Law:
Just as a local store can legally ask me to leave the premises, airlines are entitled to this very same right and more. If crew are in any way uncomfortable with passenger safety, we must defer to the airlines right to refuse service. This is clearly not an easy call.

Common Sense tells us:
Perhaps our good Imams can learn from this for future flights. The problem we face is not a simple matter of bigotry, it can be unfortunately a matter of life or death as recent history sadly illustrates.

Agreement from more than just the likes of me:
This is clearly not fair treatment. It is most 'Un-American', but is the only way available of coping with that threat imposed by the few rotten apples that ruined air travel and so much more for the many innocent citizens of our world.

There have been statements here regarding the extremist influences that damage the name of Islam. Let us not forget the Christian fundementalist extremists that have hijacked our country's agendas for the past several years and the damages done with that happy group.

I have hope for the near future that good sense will prevail on all fronts eventually.

But then I am a :mad: idealist. :sad:

Al Fakhem
22nd Nov 2006, 12:34
And spare me the idiotic comments about Saudi every time the subject of Islam comes up. Saudi Arabia is only one country.

Last time I checked, the Saudis still saw themselves as guardians of the Holy Sites and, by extension, as guardians of the faith.

In any case, we could add Afghanistan, where a convert from Islam to Christianity was - in all earnest - about to be sentenced to death.

And, since you yourself mentioned Lebanon: as a Christian politician there, the odds of getting killed by the followers of Hassan Nasrallah are pretty high - just ask the Gemayel family.

And did you mention Turkey - where the very fact that the construction of churches is practically impossible has become a major barrier to that country's joining the EU.

Meccano
22nd Nov 2006, 13:59
The only proof I have seen in this thread is in your example of anti-Muslim hysteria.

'Muslim' and 'hysteria'. Now there's two words you don't often see juxtaposed, eh? :hmm:

XXTSGR I'm glad to see you're still with us. Your lack of response to my request for a retraction over on the 'BA Crucifix' thread had me worried you might have met some form of bizarre accident with your typing digit. Patently not!

Farrell
22nd Nov 2006, 16:19
Dunno what there moaning about, not as if they were hoyed off at 20,000 feet.
:rolleyes:

I thought that they were, given the title of the thread!

Just another day for the residents of "Minority Street".

PaperTiger
22nd Nov 2006, 17:47
Looks like Allahtalia.No, the picture is Air Afreak.

fly_sd
22nd Nov 2006, 19:46
Unfortunately any combination of someone conforming to the “muslim terrorist” stereotype coupled with paranoid and/or ignorant passengers and also airline staff ends up with this kind of event. I recall in the days following Sep 11, any person conforming to a terrorist stereotype (quite often because someone “thought” the person was suspicious) was detained. A colleague of a friend of mine from India who works in the high tech sector was detained in NY for 24 hours following Sep 11 because someone on the plane thought he looked “suspicious”. He is not a muslin. There were also report of various other people being reported as “suspicious”.

A true terrorist is hardly likely to try and draw attention to themselves. I wish people try to show more common sense all round.

El Grifo
22nd Nov 2006, 22:25
He is not a muslin.

Well that is a relief, otherwise some nasty politically incorrect person might end up calling him a raghead. :eek:


(humorous wordplay of the politically incorrect variety, posted for its humour value and in no way intended to offend)

El G.

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2006, 02:00
He is not a muslin.
Well that is a relief, otherwise some nasty politically incorrect person might end up calling him a raghead. :eek:
(humorous wordplay of the politically incorrect variety, posted for its humour value and in no way intended to offend)
El G.
Good one!....:ok: .....

Blacksheep
23rd Nov 2006, 02:03
Six imams are nothing to worry about - anything up to eleven is OK.

Its when the twelfth one turns up that things will go pear shaped... :E

Why do fellow passengers get worked up so easily? Who or what causes us to view other people or their behaviour as 'suspicious?' A dozen men were arrested in Britain recently on suspicion of plotting to blow up airliners by assembling bombs on board. I don't know if any of then have been charged; we don't seem to have heard much about them since the initial alarm. They were allegedly planning to carry bomb making materials aboard disguised as toiletries or baby food. The result was the imposition of security measures causing travel chaos across the world. Much of these heightened security measures remain in place and travellers remain edgy and nervous. Scared of their own shadow as my own Mrs B describes it.

I was in the departure gate at Dubai a few years ago waiting to board when four bearded men of vaguely 'Islamic appearance' were muttering amongst themselves in a conspiratorial fashion - acting suspiciously as one might say, if one was of a nervous disposition. Being close enough to overhear them, I could tell they were worried about the large number of mask wearing Asians on our flight. They were acting 'suspiciously' because they were scared about another over-rated threat - SARs. Cultural misunderstandings are so easily exaggerated in media reporting - or in these post 9/11 WOT days might I say propaganda?

Is propaganda too strong a word? Would it be better to use the euphemism "Spin?" The political science text book "Power Without Responsibility" (James Curran, Routledge, 6th Ed. 2003) is compulsory reading for students of politics or journalism at The London School of Economics & Political Science; such a pity they are "encouraged" to forget all about it, once they begin work. I advise anyone who has any doubt about what's going on here - mass mind control by power hungry people - to pop down to their local library to get a copy and read it.

Will the human race vanish in a nuclear holocaust unless Britain unilaterally disarms?
Are there really Al Qaida cells in every other mosque?
Is Global Warming really due to human activity?
Do school Wi-Fi networks really damage childrens' brains and cause "behavioural problems"?
Will migratory birds truly bring a global pandemic that will wipe out humanity?
Did you know that a certain evil middle eastern dictator seeks global domination and possesses weapons of mass destruction ready to be deployed against the west at 45 minutes notice? Oops sorry - we already answered that one... :E
Fact or a load of Bull? There are those who for their own reasons would have you believe these things as indisputable fact and they will stop at nothing to get their message across.

I have my own brain and prefer to use it in my own way.

eal401
23rd Nov 2006, 06:58
It turned out they had made a day trip and had deliberately in a suspicious manner to manufacture the incident.

Was there ever any proof of that?

fly_sd
23rd Nov 2006, 07:08
Well that is a relief, otherwise some nasty politically incorrect person might end up calling him a raghead. :eek:
(humorous wordplay of the politically incorrect variety, posted for its humour value and in no way intended to offend)
El G.

I believe some politician over here referred to people wearing turbans as "people wearing diapers on their head" a while ago. Caused a storm for being politically incorrect. Cannot recall who that was.

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2006, 13:20
It's easy and maybe even fun to ridicule this, but how many of you would still be smirking if the flight had turned into a manned cruise missile?

At what point do untrained civilians aboard an airliner determine if someone is a threat? If there is no air marshall aboard, those civilians are all there is between meeting Allah involuntarily or not if there are bad guys aboard.

I believe that most Americans will react with alarm if there is an unusual situation aboard an airliner. Unfortunately, post-9/11, that is the reality. Will there be a host of 'cry wolf' scenarios as a result? Yep. However, I'd really much rather cause someone a little embarrassement than be mass added to a airborne suicide attack.

Being provacative in that situation is a case of "flying while being stupid."

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2006, 13:49
It's easy and maybe even fun to ridicule this, but how many of you would still be smirking if the flight had turned into a manned cruise missile?
Isn't that why we have airport security and screening?
Are you suggesting that fellow passengers should search through other passengers hand-baggage to find and report those items 'missed' by the professionals?
I believe that your use of "turned into a manned cruise missile" is emotive and 'pointless' (ie based on pure speculation - where's your evidence that such was even vaguely likely? Are you suggesting that all 'ragheads' are potential terrorists and suicide bombers?).

Meanwhile:- http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253144

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2006, 14:30
Isn't that why we have airport security and screening?]
Are you suggesting that fellow passengers should search through other passengers hand-baggage to find and report those items 'missed' by the professionals?]

I won't impugn all the US screeners, but my gut reaction to most of ours (and some of the airports in the UK I've been through) doesn't inspire confidence in me to catch 100% of everything useful in a hijacking. It's a start, but it's not foolproof.

No, I don't think fellow passengers should search fellow passengers hand-baggage. Where do you get this? I do believe that more US passengers pay attention to their surroundings and fellow passengers to a greater degree than pre-9/11.

I believe that your use of "turned into a manned cruise missile" is emotive and 'pointless' (ie based on pure speculation - where's your evidence that such was even vaguely likely? ?)

Then it's your belief that it's emotive and 'pointless.' (Nice pun, by the way!)

I never wrote it was likely in THIS event. It happened once, actually four times on 9/11 in the US and, therefore could happen again. I can assure you that many US citizens will not go quietly should the situation arise again.

Are you suggesting that all 'ragheads' are potential terrorists and suicide bombers?).]

1. Other than laughing at a juxtaposition of the word 'muslin' and the term 'raghead,' I did not use the term.

2. Now, do I think all Muslims are terrorists? No, most, like most of the rest of the world, I believe most just want to have a life and raise their families in peace. A minority, as in any group, taint the majority.

Meanwhile:- http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253144?)

Assuming you are referring to my posting this: "Also, common sense being overridden by severe stupidity seems to be a universal affliction. Pity..............." from the British Train police thread and not my one where I wondered that it took JB 17 posts to blame GWB, I think it apt in this situation.

Common sense would seem to dictate that a group of Muslims not choose the same moment to begin prayers on an US airliner in the US. Can they? Yes. However, if they did it to provoke fellow passengers then a lack of common sense was even more so. If any group stood up at the same moment and started exhibiting behavior not associated with the norm aboard an airliner, then there is cause for concern.

El Grifo
23rd Nov 2006, 14:31
Are you suggesting that all 'ragheads' are potential terrorists and suicide bombers?).

I feel obliged to jump in here and say in absolute honesty that if by saying "ragheads" you are referring to muslims, then it is not brickhistory's view or "not view" you should be concerened with.

The view that should really have your attention is that of a huge section of the "Western" public in general.

In the light of the massive increase in World terrorism, where an element of muslims have proudly claimed responsibilty for some henious acts, it is hardly surprising when air travellers, tube travellers, or the public in general, get nervous around a group of ethnically dressed gents praying to allah or similar.

The fault cannot be placed at the feet of the general public.

The fault clearly lies at the feet of the perpertators of pure evil who claim that their acts are sanctioned by allah.

The muslim world in general must take some responsibilty at least in order to wrest control of their religion from the murdering lunatics who are acting in their name.

Until that time comes, all peace loving muslims will be eyed with suspicion.

Common sense and human nature

Sad but true.

Taildragger67
23rd Nov 2006, 16:56
Yeah, cause other countries like the Kingdom of Saudi (or as I like to call it, the magic Kingdom), Iran, and just about every other Muslim extremist nation have so much religious freedom. There are just so many Churches and Sinagogues all over. Oh yeah, it is just one big happy family of tolerance and understanding.

Saudi might be a bit tight on other religions, but Iran has plenty of Jews and Christians (and Zoroastrians and others) happily living within its borders. It's not Jews the Iranian government dislikes, just the Israeli government. (I make no comment as to that spat - just pointing out to Sqwak that he's factually erroneous in his post).

And f'rinstance at the main mosque in Damascus, the highest minaret stands on the spot where one story says Christ ascended into Heaven.

PaperTiger
23rd Nov 2006, 17:38
Why do fellow passengers get worked up so easily? Who or what causes us to view other people or their behaviour as 'suspicious'?In this particular instance (and many, many others I suspect), 'suspicious' is merely a euphemism for prejudice. Religious and possibly ethnic prejudice. You can't just say "I wan't those ******s off my flight" but "those men are acting suspiciously" gets a result, apparently.

OK, so there was a single bigot on the flight who was so offended (I really doubt he was genuinely afraid) he felt compelled to write a note. But what about everyone else in the chain ?
This could have stopped:
1) with the FA
2) with the Capt.
3) with the airline station manager
4) with the Air Marshal
5) with the cop.

Either the complaining passenger has a lot of clout or all the others simply turned their brains off at the mere mention of 'suspicious'. Which as I posit above isn't the right word anyway.
Baaaaa :ugh: (can't find a sheep .wav)

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2006, 17:42
This could have stopped:
1) with the FA
2) with the Capt.
3) with the airline station manager
4) with the Air Marshal
5) with the cop.


Or the six imams............

Juud
23rd Nov 2006, 17:45
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smilies/animal/sheep.gif

PaperTiger
23rd Nov 2006, 19:41
Or the six imams............Well, the 3 who decided to pray in public surrounded by infidels, perhaps. :hmm:

Or maybe the 3M guy would have had them tossed in any case :suspect:

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2006, 20:32
In the light of the massive increase in World terrorism, where an element of muslims have proudly claimed responsibilty for some henious acts, it is hardly surprising when air travellers, tube travellers, or the public in general, get nervous around a group of ethnically dressed gents praying to allah or similar.
How many of the 9/11 perpetrators were so-dressed?



Just to prevent any possible misunderstanding of my question above, my son, who was in the adjacent compartment to that occupied by the bomber (and the bomb!) in the 7/7 Kings Cross tube bombing (yes, he survived without PHYSICAL injury despite being trapped) is (or at least WAS) 'suspicious' of identifiable 'non-whites' when travelling each day to and from his work in Central London. For many months he walked to and from rather than commit to either bus or tube. AFAIK, he doesn't use the tube during rush hours or when other methods of transport are possible. NONE of the 7/7 bombers were 'ethnically' dressed (or indulging - as far as we know - in overt prayers). He was also familiar with (though not personally acquainted with) the 'mad mullah of Finsbury Park' due to the proximity of his (my son's) flat to the Finsbury Park Mosque. A considerable percentage of the residents there dressed 'ethnically'.

El Grifo
23rd Nov 2006, 20:52
But Do You Know What - - - They Were Muslims Ok, Muslims.

If A Person Is In Any Way Identifiable As A Muslim IN SUCH A SITUATION These Days, People Get Scared.

Not Friggin Rocket Sense, Pure Common Sense.

We Are Remember, Nothing More Than The Naked Ape

Have You No Ability To Understand That !!!

Cut yourself some slack and think along these lines for a moment.

If it were some radical Scottish (for I am Scottish) that was carrying out these unspeakable acts of terror and groups of full kilted scotsmen were encountered travelling in trains and planes, would people not be naturally afraid.

If a group of "normally dressed" Scotsmen were observed gathered together in trains or planes talking in broad scots brogue would fellow passengers not feel a little uncomfortable.

Remove yourself from the box for a moment and attempt to think a bit more broadly.

fly_sd
23rd Nov 2006, 21:20
In this particular instance (and many, many others I suspect), 'suspicious' is merely a euphemism for prejudice. Religious and possibly ethnic prejudice. You can't just say "I wan't those ******s off my flight" but "those men are acting suspiciously" gets a result, apparently.
OK, so there was a single bigot on the flight who was so offended (I really doubt he was genuinely afraid) he felt compelled to write a note. But what about everyone else in the chain ?
This could have stopped:
1) with the FA
2) with the Capt.
3) with the airline station manager
4) with the Air Marshal
5) with the cop.
Either the complaining passenger has a lot of clout or all the others simply turned their brains off at the mere mention of 'suspicious'. Which as I posit above isn't the right word anyway.
Baaaaa :ugh: (can't find a sheep .wav)


In the days following Sep 11, since it was easy to have people detained by simply informing the authorities that they felt a person was a possible terrorist many people used the opportunity to get back at people they did not like according to several stories I saw in the media. Clearly passenger action has helped in the past such as in the Richard Reid case but on the other hand there have been many false alarms also. I think the authorities were very quick to accept the complaint rather than investigating the basis of the complaint.

Those air marshals concern me - I wonder when one may go crazy and start shooting people. How about if a terrorist gets a job as an air marshal. If that happens people may go off the idea of air marshals on planes.

In fact was it not too long ago an air marshall shot and killed a irate passenger in Maimi. I recall some such story in the media.

brickhistory
23rd Nov 2006, 21:25
Those air marshals concern me - I wonder when one may go crazy and start shooting people. How about if a terrorist gets a job as an air marshal.

I, for one, am willing to take that risk. Despite all the mistakes/ignorance leading up to the event, a few well-place rounds of 9mm could have averted even the final act on 9/11.

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2006, 21:27
In fact was it not too long ago an air marshall shot and killed a irate passenger in Maimi. I recall some such story in the media.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/july-dec05/miami_12-7.html
RAY SUAREZ: Has any kind of device or bomb-like device been found either in Alpizar's hand luggage on what he had checked on the plane to travel with?
SARA GOO: No, in fact, the reports so far indicate that this man might have been mentally unstable. Some reports from witnesses who were on the aircraft at the time said that he ran from the back of the plane near where his seat was to the front near the cockpit.
His wife, apparently with him, was telling passengers or screaming that he was unstable. He had mental problems. He had not taken his medication.
So I'm sure that will be a big part of this investigation going forward. For one, we don't know whether air marshals have any training in how to deal with someone who is not a terrorist but might have, you know, might be mentally unstable.

El Grifo
23rd Nov 2006, 23:12
Sorry G-CPTN did I miss your reply or did you just not bother.

I asked you to think outside the box but, eh not that far outside :ugh:

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2006, 23:19
Sorry G-CPTN did I miss your reply or did you just not bother.
I asked you to think outside the box but, eh not that far outside :ugh:
I'm fully aware of the natural reactions (as I said, my son was 'cautious' when in the proximity of anyone identifiable as a 'possible' terrorist by virtue of their apparent ethnic origin and likely religion). I don't doubt his FEAR and, under similar circumstances I would react likewise.
Just as many reacted to the sound of an Irish (particularly NORTHERN Irish) accent during the IRA bombings. No distinctive dress-code here.
But it's irrational. It's also prejudicial (is that the correct word?). Tarring all those of a race or creed because of the actions of a few irrational miscreants is NOT the response of intelligent considerate people. Many blacks are convicted of crime. Are we to assume that all blacks are criminals?

Some of my best friends are Scottish . . .

El Grifo
23rd Nov 2006, 23:45
But it's irrational. It's also prejudicial

But it is also human at the very basic level.

That is what you refuse to understand.

being Scottish, some of my best friends are also Scottish, So what ??

G-CPTN
23rd Nov 2006, 23:58
Lighten up, El Grifo.

I'm recognising your POV.

WRT the Scottish remarks, it was an attempt at hoomor. My daughter's partner is a Scot (and she lives with him in SCOTLAND) so I am aware of the animosity (both real and light-hearted) against the English. Just as in days gone by, folk would attempt to justify their inherent prejudice of blacks and gays (though they were queers in those distant days) by uttering the phrase that some of their best friends were from that segment of society.
During my working life I've worked alongside people of many different races, religions, and orientations (including women), and type is just not a way to classify how people behave. Some of the worst that I've encountered have been of my own ethnic origin, but that doesn't cause me to condemn my own type. Likewise I refuse to group together folk of other types. My son is married to a French girl (and we all KNOW that the French have inferior standards of personal hygiene, don't we?). Oh and they change sides readily (a situation that I understand from participating on International Legislative Committees), but I don't classify ALL French as cowards (or was that the Italians?). I know that it's easy to bribe your way in Italy, but I don't condemn ALL Italians as corrupt (though probably most of them potentially are . . . )

But it is also human at the very basic level.
That doesn't make it right, desirable or even justifiable.

Blacksheep
24th Nov 2006, 01:30
...groups of full kilted scotsmen were encountered travelling in trains and planes, would people not be naturally afraid?Having often been a member of a full kilted group of highlanders, I can safely say they ought to be afraid. Very afraid. ;)

As a fair skinned, blue eyed chap, over here in Borneo I'm an "Orang Puteh" (white person). The locals typecast Orang Putehs or "Mat Sallehs" as loud, aggressive, pompous, overbearing drunkards. Meanwhile Orang Puteh women are typecast as loud, aggressive, pompous, overbearing whores with the sexual mores of a bitch on heat.
After all, that's what we westerners are like, right?
No?
Well, having arrived here four years before the "resumption of independence" I can at least partly appreciate where they're coming from.

Racial prejudice isn't a one way street - all cultures are by their very nature, biased against those on the outside, but we can all do our bit to break the moulds and create new perceptions. I've said it many times previously and I do fervently believe, that the World Is One.

G-CPTN
24th Nov 2006, 01:35
And I always thought that Orang Outangs were so called because of their hair colour and the sound made by their gonads as they swung through the trees . .

Blacksheep
24th Nov 2006, 02:00
I'm an Orang Puteh not one of those long-armed, randy Rang-a-Tangs. One time I had a hair colouring accident when our nine-year old thought I'd look better with dark hair. It ended up bright orange! During a visit to Kuala Lumpur zoo, we went to a 'meet the animals' compound where the orange hair caused a young female Rang-a Tang to take a fancy to me. She grabbed my hand and led me off towards her pen. Fortunately one of the keepers distracted her with some papaya before I became an unusual addition to the exhibits in the primates section.

I have been known to do Oooslum bird impersonations in the past and I've done many Rhinosorearse impressions after a night out in Lincoln or Doncaster.

Before they developed a liking for paving stones and such, the military used to use colour coded names for secret equipment - 'Red Steer', 'Green Satin', 'Blue Diver' etc.
I reckon the chap who named 'Orange Putty' had definitely done a tour in Malaya. ;)

tony draper
24th Nov 2006, 08:59
Just as well Mr B they recon once yer had a ape there's no going back.
:rolleyes:

ORAC
24th Nov 2006, 09:06
Lucky he wasn´t in your neck of the woods when she dyed it Mr D, else they´d have hung him as a Frenchman...

Blacksheep
24th Nov 2006, 09:16
Being a South Durham man, the thought did cross my mind at the time...

Hartlepool is much nearer to Stockton than Gateshead (unfortunately)

Last time I drove past the 'Welcome To Hartlepool' sign someone had suspended a cuddly toy monkey by the neck from the sign board. They had dressed it in a horizontal striped jumper and a large black beret with one of those stalk thingies sticking out of the top. It was still there two days later when we drove back, so I guess the Hartlepudlians retain their legendary thick skins.

I suppose if half a dozen French Onion sellers were on a flight from Durham Tees Valley, getting thrown off the aircraft as suspicious characters might be the least of their worries... :E

tony draper
24th Nov 2006, 09:30
Strange,Hartlepudlians seem to be able to live with it better these days,one recals a time when the very mention of our hairy cousins in any context in the vicinity of a native of that town meant at least a fist fight.
One remembers having to hide in the funnel of the good ship Thirlby in peril of one's life due to an off the cuff humerous remark made to the Harlepudlian Bosun re the numerous monkeys hopping about in a tree beside our vessel.
One was only sixteen at the time and somewhat foolish as one tends to be at that age.
:uhoh:

Blacksheep
24th Nov 2006, 09:35
Irony tony. One never, ever mentions our simian cousins anywhere betwixt Seaton Carew and Trimdon Dene. Likewise, one never wears a stripey jumper or beret in the same area. Very touchy folk are Har'pudlians.

CSilvera
14th Dec 2006, 05:32
And one of them is that they were doing it for publicity.
"The case of U.S. Airways flight 300 gets stranger by the minute. When six traveling Muslim clerics were asked to deplane last week, it looked like another civil rights controversy against post-9-11 airport security.

Now new information is emerging that suggests it was all a stunt designed to weaken security…." http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/12/the_faking_imams_pajamas_media.php


And now the pilots/airline might be fined for merely protecting themselves from what seems to be a justified threat. Here is a link to the police report.
http://pajamasmedia.com/upload/2006/12/FlyingImamsPolice%20Report.pdf

http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/