Jetstar's march continues

[En Avion]

Qantas Group Airline ‘Jetstar’ to further grow in
western Japan by offering direct services to Cairns

The Qantas Group’s value based airline, Jetstar, will further grow direct international services from western Japan to Australia, announcing plans to operate from both Nagoya and Osaka to Cairns, the gateway to tropical Australia.

The decision will consolidate Jetstar as the sole Qantas Group airline serving both Osaka and Nagoya.

From 2 August 2007*, Jetstar will operate six weekly return services direct between Nagoya and Cairns including twice weekly Sydney-Cairns-Nagoya, launching the airline for the first time in Nagoya.

Commencing 8 September 2007*, Jetstar will also serve Cairns directly from Osaka four times weekly.

Jetstar will operate an initial fleet of Airbus A330-200 aircraft (303 seat configured), offering two classes of service including StarClass, Jetstar’s business class.

The value based carrier’s inaugural Japanese services will commence from 25 March 2007* with a daily direct service from Osaka to Brisbane and Sydney, a new Qantas Group international route, which was announced earlier this year. All flights are subject to regulatory approval.

Jetstar Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce said Jetstar’s market entry in Japan and fresh commitment to growth in its international operations from western Japan to Australia would represent a 30 per cent increase in operated capacity for the Qantas Group by September next year.

Mr Joyce said this included a 13 per cent increase in capacity on the Cairns – Nagoya route.

“The transition to a Jetstar operation on Cairns-Osaka and Cairns-Nagoya routes will improve their sustainability for the Qantas Group and provide the best platform for future growth from the Japanese market,” Mr Joyce said.

To celebrate Jetstar’s new international services from Japan, Jetstar is on sale from AU $299 all inclusive one way from Cairns to Nagoya and Osaka and from AU $399 all inclusive one way between Sydney and Brisbane to Osaka. Sale fares in Australia are available at Jetstar.com and Jetstar Telephone Reservations on 131 538. Conditions apply.*

Jetstar is on sale in Japan with special return fares from 20,000 yen plus surcharges, fees and taxes from Nagoya and Osaka to Cairns and from 40,000 yen plus surcharges, fees and taxes between Osaka to Brisbane and Sydney. Fares are available in Japan from participating Travel Agents and Jetstar Holidays Telephone Reservations on 0034 800 400 839. Conditions apply.*

The sale for all routes closes midnight 17 November 2006 AEST.

Jetstar’s Group General Manager - Commercial, Bruce Buchanan, was joined by Jetstar Regional General Manager – Japan, Masaru Kataoka, in Nagoya to make the announcement.

Mr Buchanan said Jetstar would operate its long haul international services for the first time into Cairns and will be a significant part of the value based airline’s future planned 17 weekly services from either the Kansai or Chubu regions next year.

“Jetstar’s expanding international operations out of western Japan forms part of the Qantas Group’s continued focus on two airline brands for future growth and sustainable operations,” Mr Buchanan said.

“Other features of the new international services will include a Qantas codeshare arrangement on all flights, connectivity of Jetstar passengers and their luggage between Jetstar international services and Qantas international and Qantas domestic services in Australia as well as seamless through check-in.”

Jetstar will support its expanding international operations from both the Kansai and Chubu regions with its Osaka based office headed by Mr. Masaru Kataoka, and intends to work closely with the Japanese travel industry including wholesalers and travel agents.

“Jetstar would like to thank Kansai International Airport, Central Japan International Airport, and the Osaka and Aichi Prefectural Governments who have allowed us to build our services to and from western Japan,” Mr Buchanan said.

“Jetstar is also grateful for the support shown in Australia by the Queensland Government and Cairns Port Authority to operate these international services into Queensland.

“Jetstar will also work closely with Tourism Australia and Qantas to support these routes.”

Packages sold by Japanese wholesalers and travel agents for economy travel on Jetstar will receive meals and drinks and headphones to watch inflight movies plus an amenity kit with blanket and pillow. Economy passengers may rent portable video on demand units and buy additional drinks and snacks.

All flights subject to regulatory approval.

[DutchRoll]

Jetstar will also work closely with.....Qantas to support these routes.
I bet it will. It'll have its snout so far down in the Qantas trough it'll be having trouble breathing.

[Shlonghaul]

Dutchroll :D

Your quote:
I bet it will. It'll have its snout so far down in the Qantas trough it'll be having trouble breathing.


Along with QF executives!!

Has everyone seen the SQ ads for trips to Asia? With fares as good as offered by Jet* Int. and I quote their ad "Great fares, full inflight service, personal inflight entertainment system, savour world gourmet cuisine, and then relax with a blanket and soft pillow".

Good on you SQ!!
Thanks for helping us reveal GDs "con" of Jet* International.

[rammel]

When Jetstar Int was launched I did a quick comparison of MEL to BKK fares, between JQ and TG. The fares were roughly the same, but that was with no frills ordered on Jetstar. Also if you have a connection ex BKK, if you travel with Jetstar you have to overnight.

The only way I can see Jetstar being good value for anyone, is if you get a really cheap seat in one of their sales. A Thai friend of mine got one of their launch fares for about $300-400 return MEL-BKK. This is hard to beat, but on their everyday fares there is better value for money out there.

[longjohn]

Good on you SQ!!
Thanks for helping us reveal GDs "con" of Jet* International.

Are you serious?

Have a think about that. Would you really rather see Aussies fly with a foreign airline than an Aussie one? Surely it is better to have the jobs here in Aus?

What about when / if SQ are allowed to reveal GD's "con" over the pacific routes?

Perhaps I have misinterpreted your post.

[Oldmate]

Would you really rather see Aussies fly with a foreign airline than an Aussie one?

Yes! If the Aussie option is a complete laughing stock that devalues the whole industry.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Yes! If the Aussie option is a complete laughing stock that devalues the whole industry.


Blah, blah, blah.

:ugh:

[Gordstar]

Got to say, I think "Oldmate" has a point.
As much as I want to see my mates working out of Aus, I agree that the way QF and J* (sic) are being run and flight routes inflicted with knives like they were about to bring about the end of a man's manhood, flying with them really only means you agree with JD's juggernaut. :yuk:

[Ex QF]

Have any of you QF staff enquired on Jet* staff travel fares as yet? I know the destinations may not appeal to some of you but just wondering about the comparison between current QF fares and the new Jet* fare - or are they going to rip off the staff as well?

If they are over the top, is this GD's way off further peeing off staff? Getting rid of more staff? after all, he won't need a staff travel dept.

[peuce]

I mean no disrespect, but ...I've got the feeling that the QANTAS die hards are trying to hold holy something that the average punter doesn't want.

As a consumer, my choice is to either sit cramped up in QANTAS' 31" pitch economy class ... or Jetstar's 38" premium economy cabin. For that ...I'm willing to pay a premium ... and I bet there's others who think likewise.

QANTAS has seen fit not to introduce premium economy and I think it's lost a lot of custom to the likes of BA and AIRNZ on that front. The other group of people who are flocking to Jetstar are those who don't care about seat pitch but want to save a buck. They are also happy to purchase food on board ... if they want it.

QANTAS, like any business, has to accept that they can't tell today's consumer what they want ... nor tell the consumer that what they want is the wrong choice ...you just have to provide what they want.

If you don't ... you can't sit around crying about them departing in droves.

[RENURPP]

QANTAS, like any business, has to accept that they can't tell today's consumer what they want ... nor tell the consumer that what they want is the wrong choice ...you just have to provide what they want.



And thats exactly the problem.
I was a QF customer, I will never be a Jetpox customer.
Jetpox have taken over the QF routes I utilise I no longer have the choice to travel QF.
My choice is to travel TIGER to Singapore and then find another real airline from there onto........

[Pete Conrad]

peuce..previous threads have shown that jetstar aint necessarily the cheapest, so that argument is flawed.

longjohn, your argument of flying with carriers who don't employ Australians is again another well beaten flawed argument...punters don't give a rats, hence thats why they choose to fly EK, SQ, TG, BA etc etc. Punters care about service and value for money, some may choose to fly JQ to save a buck, but most buy a ticket wanting more than a coke and peanuts for an 8 hour leg. The costs of JQ add up, and as shown, why would you fly them when you can get a comparable fare and better service with an Asian or Middle East carrier.

Jetstar are just beating the public into submission. By using well placed spin they attempt to brainwash the public into thinking they are the revolution in aviation. When they have lowered the cost sufficiently on their routes, they'll paint a red tail on the jet and that'll be the "new" Qantas.

[cunninglinguist]

How surprising.........SQ putting out " specials " on all of Jetstars routes, what about before they had the competition ? Reminds me of Ansett WA when Q/link came along.

and RENNURP, Jetpox? a bit rich coming from a National Joke contractor :=

Pete, your slipping :rolleyes:

[Wingspar]

Peuce has a good point.

If Jetstar and Qantas are on the same route why wouldn't pax go to Jetstar with Starclass rather than Qantas economy?

It will happen to BKK and HNL!

There may be a difference in fares...I don't know but I don't want to see another BA and GO situation develop.

[dodgybrothers]

Has anyone seen the new starclass seating yet? Maybe if there are some piccis floating around then we could have them posted. I'm just thinking yes it would be nice to fly the starclass but are they bigger seats and with all the frills? Otherwise you might be better off on QF cattle class

[RENURPP]

and RENNURP, Jetpox? a bit rich coming from a National Joke contractor

My comments were written from a pax point of view.
The options to fly with QANTAS are rapidly dissapearing, leaving JetPox as the replacement.
Like I said if I can't fly QF I will fly Virgin domestically, (marginally better) or Tiger to a destination were I can find a real airline.

Now whether you work for them or not surely you can't suggest that Jetpox service is above NJS/QLink standards.

[Capt Claret]

RENURPP

You could always drive, and if you do it sooner than later you'll avoid the speed limit & demerit points! :ooh: :oh: :p

[ShockWave]

DirectAnywhere :- The -200 is actually the shorter version of the A330 but with longer range, the longer one is the A330-300.

[podbreak]

Would you really rather see Aussies fly with a foreign airline than an Aussie one? Surely it is better to have the jobs here in Aus?


longjohn, whilst I support the j* boys and gals as fellow comrads, yes I would rather see them flying for certain foreign operators. Why? Because I support the will most of these people have to live in Australia, and with this RDO is o/s ports bizo, airlines like CX and EVA guarantee more time in oz than jetstar. Who gives a rats about keeping Australian jobs if they aren't really in Australia.

[longjohn]

longjohn, your argument of flying with carriers who don't employ Australians is again another well beaten flawed argument...punters don't give a rats,


Actually that was not my argument. In fact, it was a question as to whether or not those in the profession really would rather see jobs go to foreign pilots as against Jetstars'.

The costs of JQ add up, and as shown, why would you fly them when you can get a comparable fare and better service with an Asian or Middle East carrier.


You would not, unless you could get it cheaper, better scheduled or perhaps.....you could go direct, rather than via Singapore etc.


Jetstar are just beating the public into submission. By using well placed spin they attempt to brainwash the public into thinking they are the revolution in aviation.


Do you really hold the travelling public in that much contempt? I would like to think that todays consumers are a little more savvy.

When they have lowered the cost sufficiently on their routes, they'll paint a red tail on the jet and that'll be the "new" Qantas.


Perhaps. But if the route has been succesful in the budget market under the Jetstar brand, why would they move it into the mainline brand which is perceived as higher cost?

[longjohn]

Yes! If the Aussie option is a complete laughing stock that devalues the whole industry.

Really. Is that like saying, "If they are not propping up my terms and conditions then bugger them"? :hmm:

[longjohn]

And thats exactly the problem.
I was a QF customer, I will never be a Jetpox customer.
Jetpox have taken over the QF routes I utilise I no longer have the choice to travel QF.
My choice is to travel TIGER to Singapore and then find another real airline from there onto........

So what is a 'real' airline then? Something about glass houses comes to mind.

[ShesGreatintheGalley]

...But if the route has been succesful in the budget market under the Jetstar brand, why would they move it into the mainline brand which is perceived as higher cost?
because at the end of the day, this whole big exercise (a ten year plan if you like) is to bring Qantas down to a standard where they are almost unbeatable on price, yet still keep the Qantas Branding.
Jetstar passengers have shown (by flying Jetstar at the start) that they dont care what the airline is called, they just want a cheap and regular way to get from A to B.
Qantas has a huge amount of goodwill throughout the entire WORLD - my prediction? Once the QF board have downsized the mainline old schoolers who are on extortionate pay scales and conditions, and have the majority of their QF workforce as MAM - they will simply rebrand Jetstar back into the qantas livery, with all the 'service' that jetstar currently offers. More likely,they will just offer all the remaining QF crew the option of taking the current JQ EBAs or becoming a Casual. Then, once Qantas has again reinvented itself, and significantly reduced its cost structure so dramatically, it will start a NEW low cost carrier which will, by that time be able to undercut even the cheapest JQ fares. Really, how else, if you were QF management, could you significantly reduce the entire airlines cost structure in such a short amount of time without losing goodwill from the passengers?
remember, its only the staff that seem to hate management (QF AND JQ) - the passengers couldnt give a ****!

[Taildragger67]

When Jetstar Int was launched I did a quick comparison of MEL to BKK fares, between JQ and TG. The fares were roughly the same, but that was with no frills ordered on Jetstar. Also if you have a connection ex BKK, if you travel with Jetstar you have to overnight.
The only way I can see Jetstar being good value for anyone, is if you get a really cheap seat in one of their sales. A Thai friend of mine got one of their launch fares for about $300-400 return MEL-BKK. This is hard to beat, but on their everyday fares there is better value for money out there.

Recently did a comparison for a trip to BKK next April. Headline J* fares looked interesting, but then add in all the taxes and a buck or two for some in-flight comfort add-ins (like, food) and TG was cheaper. Chuck in an open-jaw coming back out of SGN and even when factoring the necessary TG connections, TG was still better value.

[lowerlobe]

I think the point from Schlonghaul is that the J* myth is being unraveled at last.
They have told us that they are cutting staff costs so that the punter will enjoy cheaper travel.The Ads that Schlonghaul mentions prove otherwise.

The whole exercise that has been called J* does not achieve cheaper seats for the punter nor does it achieve any sort of satisfactory profit for the QF group.In fact J* has not even contributed 2% to the total group profit.

As peuce has mentioned in regard to the product ,the company has been pretty shabby.If Darth had spent the same amount of money on improving the QF product instead of setting up J* he would almost certainly made more than 1.6% of total profit.

Longjohn,if the company continues to treat both it’s Australian employees and the travelling Australian public the same way then I believe that SQ deserves to get all the business it can.

To be honest I would much rather spend my money on VB or SQ or any other airline I choose than contribute to Darths bonus.

[peuce]

Some interesting information ....

Firstly, I wanted to test the COST issue. On the internet, I randomly selected a return flight SYD/HNL .. out 1/2/07, back 10/2/07. Here are the results for the cheapest fares(incl taxes, but not food purchaes) available on the Airlines' sites:

QANTAS
Economy $1693
Business $9358

JESTSTAR
Economy $1267
Star Class $2547

So, obviously, for this specific example, Jetstar provides a cheaper option ... with at least a 99.9% chance of getting there safely. I'm sure you can find other examples that don't weigh up... but I haven't got the energy to look.

MORE INTERESTINGLY, guess which aircraft runs both Economy outbound flights? Yes, Jetstar A330. (The Economy return leg for QANTAS is on a flight through Nadi.)

EVEN MORE INTRESTINGLY, guess which aircraft runs BOTH Business class legs for QANTAS? Yes, Jetstar A330. So, for $9358 you get Jetstar Star Class seating. That would be a shock as you walked out of the Qantas Club ???

[Pete Conrad]

Longjohn, aviation is global, with the amount of pilots that move between airlines..JQ and QF guys now leaving for CX, Japan, EK etc I don't think people view it as a big deal...

I never said the public are less savvy...merely pointing out the amount of spin and crap Jetstar have to put out to generate business.

Your last point is interesting...Jetstar Int have not proved themselves yet, they may not be successfull, albeit unless QF pump mega amounts of dough into them and lets face it..after the cost base is lowered far enough who says the yeild may not be there under a QF red tail brand?

[Ultralights]

thats all well and good, but what about the Choice!

Air Canada $993
Hawaiian Airlines $1325
Qantas $1360

[AnQrKa]

My hasnt Longjon changed his tune since he jumped the fence.

It wasnt that long ago he was slagging off at jetstar pilots with gay abandon.

Now he are one.

[cunninglinguist]

No Rennuurrp, not suggesting that it is as good as Q/Link. But having flown alot with VB and Jet*, I reckon their service is identical, save the odd crappy cabin crew, and Vbs prices are usually alot closer to QF than Jet*

[murgatroid]

and Vbs prices are usually alot closer to QF than Jet*

Crap! Where DJ and JQ compete head to head, the prices are almost always identical and specials are almost always matched. Just do a bit of a comparision to some of the holiday destinations in QLD.

Where DJ and QF compete head to head, guess what, the lower fares are generally comparable.

[Shlonghaul]

Crap! Where DJ and JQ compete head to head, the prices are almost always identical and specials are almost always matched. Just do a bit of a comparision to some of the holiday destinations in QLD.
Where DJ and QF compete head to head, guess what, the lower fares are generally comparable.


Sounds to me like there's a two airline policy in place??!! Ahhh the good old days!! :ok:

[podbreak]

Leane and Peuce,

Both of these appear to be attempts to push Q customers onto J*. Once those at the top have managed this, the figures about J* 'success' won't lie. Its easier to knock down and build from scratch than to change what's already there; this is the knocking down...:sad:

[cunninglinguist]

Hey Murga, you're right, checked AD to DN,CG and SY, VB only 10-20% dearer, except where the VB CG fare is via ML.:ok:
Thats mid feb next year, no sale prices.
Try getting yer facts straight

[MIss Behaviour]

It's interesting to note that even QF Chairman's Lounge members who used to fly QF J class internationally would rather travel to SIN on Tiger Airways at 0300 than Jetstar Asia at 1650 despite the "convenience" of daily schedules. :D :D

[WilliamOK]

I generally tend to fly with Virgin because their fares are cheaper, and the flights more frequent. J* tends to have slightly cheaper fares or excellent deals, but you get the choice between what, two flights a day on the sectors I fly the most: Mel-Bne and Bne-Mel. Virgin tends to fly about every hour and a hlaf or something, but they are always loads more frequent.

[Angle of Attack]

Hi, Yes regarding some previous posts regarding the cost including the taxes. travelling in Asia anyway, you will find cheaper options than Jetstar, I have studied numerous destinations and dates and ignoring the sale seats, in general Singapore Airlines, Malaysian Airlines, Garuda, Air Pacific in that order are cheaper than Jet* Price. And dare I say the service would be better, or should I say "And of course the service will be better!" Yes it is true that the other Airlines may have a stop-over but hey if your travelling with Budget in mind who cares? People will do it to save a buck. But its not about the bottom line price its the spin and the attempt to make Jet* the cheapest option in peoples PERCEPTION rather than fact. A Brain washing technique to alter the publics perception of the Airline ie "What do you mean its Jetstar? It has to be the cheapest Airline?" I had a mate travel to Melbourne earlier this year and he called me up and said he was going to buy a $129 one way ticket JetStar to Melbourne(Avalon) from Brisbane, and seemed pretty pleased about it. I asked him "Have you checked other Airlines?" His response was "Well its Jetstar should be cheapest right?" After he checked he got a $89 one way ticket to Melbourne with Qantas, haha, he couldnt believe it!!

Interesting times lets see how Jet* go after the holiday season ends..

[peuce]

Leane and Peuce,

Both of these appear to be attempts to push Q customers onto J*.

You can assume that, but you would be wrong... at least for me.

I travel on Jetstar, Qantas, Virgin, America West, Alaska Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, Harmony Airlines etc etc. I pick the flight that provides the best value, schedule & comfort ... for my particular travelling date.

The example I picked was from a random date and the fares are correct. As I said, I am sure you could pick another date and possibly find the reverse oucome.

My point is ... those that say that Jetstar don't have cheper flights once you take into account taxes etc ... are purely sprouting generalisations. My example proves that.

Jetstar is just one of the options available when planning a trip. Sometimes it will be the airline selected (for all the reasons stated above) sometimes it won't. But what tips it a bit MY way is the Star Class option.

Qantas don't have a comparable product. Virgin do, Blue Zone ... but they don't fly on the routes I'm looking at. Air New Zealand does, so I take them into consideration.

You can choose whoever you like to fly with. I'm just offering my thoughts on how I choose.

[lowerlobe]

To peuce and others who believe that J* is the way to go had better hope that your baggage will not go astray.

In their ever ending quest to lower costs J* has announced that when a passengers baggage goes astray will be referred to a number in India.

The cost of handling this inquiry in Australia is $1.80 whereas it is only $0.05 in India.

I can just see this after a friend was trying to deal with a tech support issue for his computer with the phone center located in India.

""J* baggage handling can I help you sir" .."Can you tell me your name please"
"Ahh yes my name is papazoglopous ..initial C for Con"
"Sir ...let me repeat your name.... is ...Paper ..what..."
'No Papazoglopou...P...A...P...A...Z

Anyway..you get my drift....Another great step forward for J* but not for the customer

[king oath]

As pointed out by Leanne Jet* international prices are advertised without taxes.

Check out a fare to Bali where taxes amount to around $300. This certainly changes the fare from cheap to no different to what was previously available.
$300 taxes on a short international flight is bullsh*t. Australian Airlines were not adding $300 to their fares.

Methinks Jet* are indulging in some imaginative advertising with these so called cheap fares. Why not advertise $50 tickets to Bali with a $500 tax.
It might get a few suckers in.

Its a bit like a service station advertising petrol for 70 cents a litre, plus taxes. Despite this the ACCC think this is OK. As long as its in the fine print its OK.

[topend3]

yep you've got to love how the spin doctors in PR work it, like this new revolution of nver-seen-before cheap airfares and people like Alan Joyce coming out with this crap how it's so affordable people who made 1 overseas holiday a year are now all of a sudden making 2 or 3 because ut's just sooo cheap! When in reality it's just the same if not more expensive than the competition and you get **** service thrown in!

[lowerlobe]

The bottom line is this..

The pay and conditions for employees are decreasing..

The service the punter receives is decreasing....

The product is decreasing.....

However the only that is not decreasing is the pay and conditions of the board....


However if you believe all the spin we are all winning ...

[NIGELINOZ]

As someone who does not work in the industry(I generally hang out in passengers and self loading freight),may I offer a few points.I have flown with just about every carrier for domestic business travel and I have to say that choosing a low cost carrier like Jet*,V Blue etc is fine for short haul flights of around an hours actual flying time,eg,MEl-HBA,MEL-SYD,etc,in this situation the lack of pillows,having to pay for coffee etc are more than made up for in lower ticket cost,and if I pay an extra $30.00 on V Blue I get a front row seat which on Qantas business class would cost a heap more.Having said that on a long haul flight (which I have yet to undertake) I would not choose Jet* or Pacific Blue or any LCC.If I am going to be sitting in a metal tube for anything up to 24 hours (or longer) I expect a level of service and I am prepared to pay for itI can envisage a time in the future when Qantas tries to shift all economy class pax to Jet*with crews based overseas,low fares,low service,low cost to provide the service.and Qantas management get the bonus that the crew deserve.

[neville_nobody]

Another interesting point to note is that you get accredited Freq Flyer points the same as if you were flying QF business class, when flying star class!!

So much for a seperate entity......:mad:

[Pete Conrad]

Guys, you are missing the point..Jetstar are fantastic, they operate brand new A330's and they have the best inflight service...coupled with that, the crews there love it..morale is fantastic and the company is expanding beyond belief...to add, they have a great union that do all they can to ensure the crews get paid what they deserve.

[topend3]

exactly Conrad, and they have these beaut tv ads that get you all warm and fuzzy and keep reminding us all how lucky we are to have this new int'l carrier with these super cheap fares, available EVERY DAY!!!:D

[Pete Conrad]

Coupled with that topend...Jetstar is such a great career path, I mean, why would you look at Japan and EK and Cathay when you can fly a silver and orange brand new A330 around the skies to places like Bali? Guys, we all need to stop being negative about our Jetstar bretheren, they have it all. We should recognise that...they are the new sky gods.

We have to assume they are the new sky gods because as longjohn pointed out in the thread re a QF 747 scraping an engine on landing...longjohn correctly reminded us that Jetstar havent had any scrapes..now, we can all learn from Jetstar's impeccable safety record...we should be holding them up as the beacon of safety, employee relations and unions fighting for great pilot conditions.

And we all have to listen very intently on what cunninglinguist says..he's come from the lowest paid jet job in Australia to where the pay and conditions at Jetstar are superior...so he's a valuable wellspring of advice on career transitions...

[longjohn]

Wow Pete, I threw that one out a while ago in another thread.

And just when I was thinking of changing the bait:E

[air doris]

Pete Conrad, will be nice to hear from you in 12 months time. I leave it at that.

[desmotronic]

I suppose at least the J* boys have a half decent chance of a command in the next decade. :}

[Johhny Utah]

But at what price...? And at the end of the day, once they have a command - then what...? :uhoh:

[Mud Skipper]

Then what....

Then pay and conditions improve or you leave... Lots of Commander jobs in Asia for A330 drivers which pay well over $11K US with minimal tax. :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

The water is still very very muddy, JD continues to hold several cards very close.

[Henry Winkler]

Then what....
Then pay and conditions improve or you leave... Lots of Commander jobs in Asia for A330 drivers which pay well over $11K US with minimal tax. :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
The water is still very very muddy, JD continues to hold several cards very close.
You can bet the Pay and Conditions won't improve. QF shorthaul have been offered a 3 year pay freeze with a once off 3% bonus. Australian Airlines I believe have been offered the same, and the company wants offsets for it. I'm sure longhaul will be next. What do you think they'll offer Jetstar? If you think that somehow there different, I think you'll need your head checked.
So, in veiw of that, I guess you leave. Sort of flys in the face of working for Jetstar so you can live in Australia.
Each to there own, I guess. But the excusses are drying up. Good luck to all.

[max autobrakes]

If you think "hell get the foot in the door first and then work on the T&C's later" sorry WorkChoices has put paid to that idea.
Any more thoughts? :bored:

[jaded boiler]

For as long as I can remember, most QF pilots have been loud and proud supporters of the federal liberal/national coalition.

Ironic, then, that legislation enacted by the present government undeniably poses the single biggest threat to the remuneration levels and employment conditions of QF technical crew, compared with anything else that has occurred since 1966.

Be careful what you wish (and vote) for.

[Taildragger67]

For as long as I can remember, most QF pilots have been loud and proud supporters of the federal liberal/national coalition.

Ironic, then, that legislation enacted by the present government undeniably poses the single biggest threat to the remuneration levels and employment conditions of QF technical crew, than anything else that has occurred since 1966.

Be careful what you wish (and vote) for.

Yup. Unless you're a boss/business owner, you're best advised to bend over and take it like a man :uhoh: .

I'd always thought that it was the socialists who drive economies to the bottom, looking for the lowest common denominator. I guess another way is to simply kick the legs out from under everyone who's holding the place up.

(... and this from a North Shore, GPS boy!!!)

[Mud Skipper]

Sorry JD,
....JD continues to hold several cards very close.
I should have said GD.... OOOPs
All the same I damb well hope you boys have a few up you sleave;) ;) ;)
Never actually thought
Then pay and conditions improve or you leave...
T&C would improve... actually still believe J* will be spun off but that's another story.... GoFly - and the boss takes the gold again.

[Taildragger67]

T&C would improve... actually still believe J* will be spun off but that's another story.... GoFly - and the boss takes the gold again.

I think Go was actually pretty popular with the punters, though.

BA sold Go because they needed the cash. Go was making money and was therefore an attractive sale option; I suspect that had BA not had a pressing need for the dough, they would've hung onto it (as they've then tried to do other lo-co ops under different guises); my point being that the parallel is not quite the same (as Qantas has plenty of cash).

[Henry Winkler]

Sorry JD,
I should have said GD.... OOOPs
All the same I damb well hope you boys have a few up you sleave;) ;) ;)
Never actually thought
T&C would improve... actually still believe J* will be spun off but that's another story.... GoFly - and the boss takes the gold again.
Did you say "never actually thought T&C would improve"? Bit of a problem with the formating of your last post. What has Jetstar being spun off got to do with it?

[roamingwolf]

I like the absolute BS that is used in the J* international Ads on TV over the last few days.

The part about you only pay for what you use is a pearl of a line...

As well as the one which says :At a fraction of the cost of other ailine tickets"...

It has been shown here on a number of occassions that the last line about a fraction of the cost is a load of rubbish and is almost fraudulent.

I also like the bit about yobbos on the beach which I suppose is meant to be Thailand who would /could never have afforded to do so before...and the ones who said they brought their own food.

These ads are about as truthful and accurate as the ones that we see from the political parties leading up to an election.

[DutchRoll]

Well, they could be technically telling the truth. I mean, 5/4ths is a "fraction".;)

I admit I had quite a laugh when I first saw the ad and the bit about "you only pay for what you use", as if most people would be really appreciative of the default level of service and provisions on a longhaul flight being ZERO!

[alangirvan]

I think Go was actually pretty popular with the punters, though.
BA sold Go because they needed the cash. Go was making money and was therefore an attractive sale option; I suspect that had BA not had a pressing need for the dough, they would've hung onto it (as they've then tried to do other lo-co ops under different guises); my point being that the parallel is not quite the same (as Qantas has plenty of cash).


I thought Go was directly competing against BA eg flying to Losbon ex Stansted against BA's own service from LHR.

I think QF have careful that J* does not compete for passengers that QF still wants to carry, so J* does not offer such good departure times on Sydney to Avalon for business flyers who want to do a trip in one day

[dodgybrothers]

alang I think you are right. I recall young Rod saying that he was driving to work one day and listening to the radio and heard the GM of Go ( a nice girl can't recall her name though) annoucing that Go would be flying services on BA's most profitable routes. It was then Rod decided that Go had to well, go!

[Taildragger67]

That was Barbara Cassani.

The difference was that Go was out of Stansted; BA tried for ages to differentiate its full-service offerings ex-EGLL and EGKK from the LoCo's (still does, pointing to meals, FF points, etc.). Go was the BA way of taking a slice of the LoCo action without having to really do a lot internally with its own brand.

Times changed, though, esp. post-11 Sep '01 and it has taken BA five years to make the necessary internal adjustments. Before then, I don't think it saw STN flights as competition for H'row and Gatwick ops. The travelling punter, however, thought differently and still does.

So the BA you see today is a different animal from the BA when Go was set up. The relevant question is, therefore, would BA try to set up a Go now? Probably not as they've lowered internal (ie. within BA itself) costs enough to be able to compete with the LoCo's out of EGLL and EGKK. Willie says as much in his intor to the latest BA Investor mag.

[air doris]

Re Jetstar Int, I don't know if anyone else has noticed another subtle con. Try booking a fare from Bali to Australia, all fares are quoted in US dollars, not AUD. I didn't realise until I looked closely, I just assumed all fares would be in AUD. So after conversion the fares are even more than one thought.

[alangirvan]

I see on another forum, someone has given his impression of the first flight to Phuket. A few rough edges, but nothing that cannot be put right.

I think J* long haul will attract a lot of attention from around the world - LCCs in Europe will observe whether people will tick the box to get their food and drink and entertainment and blanket. If J* starts flights to Europe - ie MEL-BKK-Rome, will you tick the box for each segment - that will add a lot of cost, if you are travelling with a big family. Rather than DigiPlayers they should give you mains power so that your iPod will play from Melbourne to Rome.

J*, when they start flying to Europe will be competing against Asian carriers who include so much more for the cost of the fare

[resboy]

Re Jetstar Int, I don't know if anyone else has noticed another subtle con. Try booking a fare from Bali to Australia, all fares are quoted in US dollars, not AUD. I didn't realise until I looked closely, I just assumed all fares would be in AUD. So after conversion the fares are even more than one thought.

USD is the recognised currency JQ has chosen to sell fares ex Indonesia and ex Vietnam, rather than the local currencies. Try the same thing, quote a fare ex BKK or HKT and surprise, the fare is in Thai Bhat, likewise for ex HNL fares in USD ... Jump on the US version of the QF website and surprise suprise the fares are quoted in US dollars ... not a "subtle con" ... just standard airline practice to quote a fare with the currency of the country of origin rather than the country of destination ... having the fare in AUD isn't gonna mean much to the locals in Bali.

[air doris]

Thanks resboy you made it all make sense to me. I thought it was a bit odd until you explained it. I guess it's like many hotels in Bali, they also quote in USD.

[resboy]

pleasure :ok: