1ACC / RAF Kirton in Lindsey / RAF Scampton future

[AonP]

I heard a rumour yesterday that plans for RAF Kirton in Lindsey and RAF Scampton have changed again. Apparently, 1ACC will move down to Scampton next year and merge with the CRC, not 2 years after hundreds of thousands of pounds were spent in making Kirton in Lindsey fit for habitation again! I feel sorry for all those who have settled around Kirton in Lindsey either in FMQs or privately who will have to move yet again. What a waste of money, caused by short-sighted planning! Also terrible timing considering current commitments, does anyone know any more details or timescales?

[Wyler]

I am shocked.

Shocked that you have only heard one rumour. :rolleyes:

[London Mil]

Well, considering that 1 ACC, the majority of BLACKDOG and a sizeable chunk of Boulmer will be sharing the same tents for the next few years, it sort of makes sense. :eek:
That said, I don't think there are many places in the RAF right now where a long term plan survives more than a matter of months. :ugh:

[SamCaine]

Could someone tell me which unit 1ACC is please? :}

[movadinkampa747]

Try Google it really works

[SamCaine]

Thank you, most educational. I must bookmark that Google thing.

[john50uk]

Could someone tell me which unit 1ACC is please? :}
1st Battalion Army Catering Corps?:)

[Gainesy]

About fifteen miles each way commute, what is the problem?:confused:

[Pontius Navigator]

About fifteen miles each way commute, what is the problem?:confused:

Caenby Corner thats what.

[whosafraidofthebigba]

Caenby Corner thats what.

If that is all you have to worry about.......

Try being at HW and having a 150 mile commute (albeit not daily). There are also good back roads which avoid Caenby Corner. Ever seen the B1398??? :8:8

[jenga]

Why would it matter to the people in the Kirton MQ if the Amateur Camping Club moved to Scampton as there can't be many quarters left at Scampton for them to move to, and as Gainsey said, the commute from Kirton to Scampton isn't exactly taxing (as long as you don't get stuck behind a tractor!:sad:)

Singlies wise, have you seen the state of the Scampton blocks! I'm thinking that Kirton is going to have blue (and green) suits living there for a while longer.

[AonP]

To clarify, my point was: wouldn't it have been better to make the decision to co-locate all at Scampton 2 years ago? This would have meant all the money spent on ops and domestic site at Kirton could have been spent on a permanent solution at Scampton.
If, as has been suggested, most of the accomodation remains at Kirton, there will be a need for numerous MT runs, an increase in HTD payments, not to mention no reduction in the guarding commitments - how can this be a logical step forward? The plan seems to have been badly thought out, the powers that be closed 2 split site stns (Neat and Buchan), but have succeeded in reopening 2 others (Scampton and Kirton) - well done to all involved!!
How long will it be before all involved end up at Leeming or back at Boulmer?!

[vecvechookattack]

Ill be glad to see tha back of Kirton. Landed there once and nearly got knocked over by the tumbleweed.... complete and utter waste of money....close it soon please

[Tombstone]

Ill be glad to see tha back of Kirton. Landed there once and nearly got knocked over by the tumbleweed.... complete and utter waste of money....close it soon please

Kirton would appear to be a bit of a Nemisis for you Rotary boys! A friend of mine up at Scampton told me about an AAC chopper almost fiying into the 1ACC Radar during a night landing. The potential disaster was narrowly avoided thanks to the quick thinking of a technician on the ground who heard the sound of an approaching chopper, put down his PS2 controller & legged it outside. Upon seeing the distance between the radar & chopper decreasing at a rapid rate, he picked up his torch & illuminated the radar antenna. The AAC chappie then carried out an expeditious climb in his little Gazelle/Lynx & just missed said radar.

In fairness to the pilot, it seemed like a rather random place to site a radar!

[Descend to What Height?!?]

AonP,
me thinks you must be new in those parts. If I may, a little recap as to how this situation arose.

Plan A, Scampton will become the new A6 hub. Scampton needed a bit of work doing to bring it up to spec, but as the Army had not so long ago left Kirton, so most of the estate was generally in better nic, the plan was to put a few units there until their permanent home was ready. Hence why some went direct to SCA if buildings were OK, others to KIL as a stop gap.

Then with the decission to put the A6 hub at Leeming, this left SCA in limbo, with units spread out over Lincolnshire. Add to this the drastic shortage of MQs in the area and you are left with the present situation. Funding for SCA was withdrawn to bring Leeming up to spec, so financially nothig in the pot to refurbish SCA and bring 1ACC down the A15.

As you and others have said, if money were available to refurbish enough real estate at SCA to move 1ACC down, and move out of the MQs at Hemswell, then over the medium term, the savings on MT, guarding etc etc pays for the work. But no money is available for the initial outlay, so no imediate prospect of co-location on one site.

As for rumours, where do you want to start?
SCA shuts tomorrow/next week/year/2050.
It stays open for next week/month/year/decade.
All units moved out
Other units move in
Units stay in their present locations
Units combine at KiL
Units combine at SCA
The Reds move out
The Reds stay
100 Sqn are coming
100 Sqn are not coming
The remake of the Dam Busters film will be based at Scampton, and will pay for the station refurbishment so 1 ACC can move.
The remake of the Dam Busters film may be based at Scampton, but all money will go to buying a new Merlin for Ops out East.
The remake of the Dam Busters film will all be done using CGI, so no money to the Rental Air Farce.
The Dam Busters film will not be remade.

And those are just this weeks rumours!
:ugh: :E

[Gainesy]

The dog's name will be Trigger.:suspect:

[Top Right]

DTWH,

You make it sound like Plan A for SCA was a coherent and masterful plan, and that the later decision to put the A6 Hub at Leeming instead was merely consequential. And you also make it sound that it's purely as a result of this change in decision that units are now in limbo and scattered across Lincs ....
There were those that challenged the options of the ACSSU paper as it didn't compare like-with-like (eg Leeming good for mounting airfield v Wittering good for accomm v Scampton good for hangar space etc), and especially on the cost assumptions of regenerating SCA. But the short-sighted "solutioneering" approach prevailed and questions were pushed aside.
Based on the assumption that all would be well at SCA, other units were then put in the area in advance.
Why the change to Leeming? The real costs came to light, but only once the plan had begun. Whoops.
Had the plan been assembled properly with exact cost estimates in the first place, one might wonder whether SCA may ever have been on the books as an option? But don't stand in the way of a good solution ......

[London Mil]

I feel for the ASACS guys. In the space of a few years they have all but stopped chasing Bears, turned their radars inwards, closed a plethora of sites (well almost as there are still a bunch of techies out there), re-invented themselves, dug-in at Scampton and Boulmer only to be told that Boulmer will close and that Scampton, at best, will be a one trick unit.

If I were one of them, I would buy a caravan and call myself Gyppo. :ugh:

[Tombstone]

I feel for the ASACS guys too,

especially the E3 Mates (ASACS by default) who spend years training to be pilots only to find themselves flying long, carefully balanced right hand turns over the skies of Teeside (no easy task when you take into consideration the mass movement of pies down the back playing havoc with CoG!);)

Seriously though, a little stability for the FC world would not go amiss.

[chevvron]

Perfectly good airfield at Kirton; surely the RAF has aircraft to provide a shuttle service to Scampton.

[FJJP]

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha........................!

No, seriously, a SHUTTLE?

Good God, man, even CAS has difficulty getting a jet to fly him around.

Shuttle? 40 years ago, yes, in the days of the station hack, but TODAY - well, when we can't fund decent kit for the guys and gals on the front line, where do you think the money's coming from to pay for that [at say, £3000 per flying hour]?

Great idea, but it is the Royal Air Force after all - we don't have the money, machines or men to make life comfortable for anybody any more...

:\

[haribo boy]

Ah isn't it great um, i remember the days, sat in the r30, rep 1, boulmer - neat, tote, ahhh jumpers for goal posts, rush goalie. Guys come on the old system is not suitable for todays defence environment, your just experiencing the drag further down south where the guys at Wycombe don't have to travell so far and standard of hotel isn't well how can i say it ...rubbish. QRA scramble scarmble scramble Master controller to the bridge!!!!!:ok:

[trap one]

If I were one of them, I would buy a caravan and call myself Gyppo. :ugh:[/QUOTE]

LonMil
I did, and get called Pikey.

Still Nil Illigietimi Carborundum

[Proletarian]

I think most people are gradually coming around to the realisation that Boulmer will close, it's not really a matter of if, just when. The problem is relocating the SFC and, given the problems at Scampton, I think that can be completely ruled out as a possible location, however attractive the idea might have origionally seemed. I actually feel really sorry for all the people who's lives have been completely disrupted by the miss-management of this re-location programme - as an example of bad planning and inept decisions, it really takes some beating. Whoever did the investment appraisal of the outlay necessary to re-open Scampton, should be named and shamed, it must rate as one of the worse examples of staff work ever produced - however, he/she has probably been promoted for their 'efforts'.

I think the SFC will have to eventually move to a 'PTC unit' where it can reside under the Training Group, like other similar organisations in the RAF - quite why it has been allowed to remain outside the Training Group for so long is a complete mystery. I know the ACACS people are 'digging in' at Boulmer and seem determined to hang on as long as possible, but eventually the message will sink in, so if I were you I would be casting my eyes around for a suitable piece of empty real estate on one of the 'PTC stations'. Better to jump, before you're pushed!

Proletarian

[Wyler]

Proletarian.

Agree totally but the 'when' for Boulmer will, IMHO, be quite a while yet. The RAF is broke, period.

When the move does come though, don't be surprised if the end game is even more radical than people are suggesting at the moment.

[AonP]

An interesting article regarding a recent audit of the whole Boulmer/Scampton/Kirton piece!
http://www.northumberlandtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1117&ArticleID=1880584
Mr Beith's campaign seems to be gaining support, I don't think most involved care what the decision is, so long as it provides some stability (beyond the current 2 years plans!).

[Proletarian]

Wyler,

Good to hear from you again!! As usual, you are correct in wondering when all this can eventually happen, as funding will be the key issue. Given the current drain on resources that the various OOA operations are having on the MOD budget, nobody should hold their breath. However, this issue will not go away and I only hope for everyone's sake that this time the re-location plan is thoroughly researched, correctly costed, adequately funded and that a sensible timescale is employed. We live in hope!

Proletarian - from the 'Sports Bar'

[Widger]

1 ACC = 1st red Arrows airfield Continuity Cell. Oh how cynical of me to think that all these units are being put there to justify 9/10 aircraft having an airfield all to themselves!

It will all change again in 5 years time when the whole area is covered in Controlled Airspace and the only areas with clear training are Scotland, St Mawgan, Chivenor and Brawdy......oh...they've been closed haven't they!

:E :E :E

[Top Right]

Proletarian,

Check your PMs.

TR

[Wyler]

AonP

That article is in several of the regional rags. I would not read too much into it. The Hon Member for the Lib Dems holds little sway in these matters. As Proletarian says, it is not 'if' but 'when'.

Proletarian.

The Sports Bar! And not forgetting 'Hooters' in Ottawa (Sp???). I think the next effort will be much better but I would not be at all surprised to see most of the 'Ops Spt' eggs in the one basket.............like good comedy, it's a question of timing!

[OOpsIdiditagain]

Move the SFC to a PTC site? Hmmmmm. Isn't there soon going to be a vacated modern site near Gloucester. Doh!:ugh:

[London Mil]

Move the SFC to a PTC site? Hmmmmm. Isn't there soon going to be a vacated modern site near Gloucester. Doh!:ugh:
Alternatively, Strawberry Field.

[Great Auk]

Isn't it about time that the ASACs looked at joining/sharing training facilities with Air Traffic! Obviously there will be a few who will cry 'Heresy' but this may be the right time. Over the past few years, as airspace has become more congested/restricted and with the security situation there is a clearer need to work closer with both civil and mil ATC. Who knows it may even break down the Us and Them mentality.
Now how do we close Shawbury and move them up to Boulmer?:\

[haribo boy]

Great AUK i think you may find that there are many other aviation related activities at RAF Strawberry i.e flying training but hey i know what will be said now and i dont want to go there about who exists for whos purpose, a move of 9 and 12 has been considered time and time again i personally remember being at boulmer one moment and at a tower the next, albeit a long time ago (Type 84 sort of time) ICCS was a wonderful thing!!! I sincerely hope the best for everyone will prevaill in this whole relocation fiasco but as i and many have found there is no yellow brick road on the other side of the rainbow just another bunch of heatless, mindless, and spineless fools paid too much to make guys and girls lives , and that of thier families miserable. Best of luck to you all. Oh yes and if in doubt!!!Bang out and join another higher paid (air) Trade, it's more fun but more people tend to shoot at you.

[AonP]

Has anyone heard if when the rest of the decision will be made? Will it be a trip back up the A1 to obscurity for those living in ASACS Lincolnshire?

http://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/RAF-Boulmer-saved.3659467.jp

[FCWhippingBoy]

Pardon my French, but I bloody hope not!

And to say we're "delighted" ... Me thinks they were the words of the Force Cdr, not those on the shop floor?!

[Wensleydale]

So its Northumberland then! Does this mean that with no quarters anywhere that people posted north will have to take out mortgages with Northern Rock?

I wonder how much more investment there will be in the Government's Mafia Area. What a surprise.:ouch:

[Big Bear]

In fairness to the pilot, it seemed like a rather random place to site a radar!

Apart from the fact that a HIRTA would have been issued - Guess the pilot didn't do his planning correctly then!



Bear

[SirToppamHat]

Complete thred drift but in relation to:

In fairness to the pilot, it seemed like a rather random place to site a radar!

The last time I was a Kirton, the radar was at the Western edge of the old airfield, about a mile from the HLS! The HLS was towards the NE of the sports pitches behind my house (ie nowhere near the airfield).

STH

[Guzlin Adnams]

Less expensive of the options. Scampton's buildings need help....big time.
Nice to see that the public viewing area has been completed there:rolleyes:

[AonP]

Air Surveillance and Control System Basing Study

The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I am taking this opportunity to provide the House with interim details of the Air Surveillance and Control System (ASACS) Basing Study that commenced in September 2006.

As a result of the Air Combat Service Support Units (ACSSU) and Minor Unit Basing Study, the decision was made to draw down RAF Boulmer by 2012 and relocate some of the ASACS units to RAF Scampton. Following the Communication Hub relocation in 2006 to RAF Leeming instead of RAF Scampton the decision regarding the future basing of ASACS units needed to be reconsidered. This included the proposed future location of all ASACS elements currently based at RAF Boulmer, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Scampton.

During the course of the ASACS Basing Study it became clear that the retention of RAF Boulmer as a core site for the ASACS Hub was the best option in financial and operational terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, RAF Boulmer should not draw down in 2012 and should instead remain the ASACS Hub. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Boulmer will be briefed on the progress of the study.

This decision only refers to RAF Boulmer’s future within the ASACS Basing Study. The final outcome of the study, which will include the basing of the remaining ASACS satellite units at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey, is expected shortly.

[JessTheDog]

So Boulmer is safe? When I left in 2004 I understood it to be drawing down in 2012, a ridiculous and shortsighted decision to say the least! It sticks firmly in my mind along with the mental picture of the then-Staish being winched away from the domestic site by yellow taxi! I later heard the decision had been reversed.

Surely ASACS and ATC can't merge as they do different jobs with different kit...does civil radar still do SSR only and no primary radar, as it did when I left?

SFC should go under PTC....wherever that goes! Wasn't PTC due to relocate to High Wycombe?

I am sure that integrated air defence will creep back up the military agenda once the obsession with out of area ops ends (after the money runs out, or when Dubya retires, whichever is sooner). Russians are getting a bit more active, still the threat of a 9/11 etc.

[AonP]

The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr. Bob Ainsworth): I am able to inform the House today of the outcome of the Royal Air Force study that has been undertaken to consider the future basing requirements of the Air Surveillance and Control System—ASACS—units.

On 10 January 2008, I announced that RAF Boulmer would be retained as the core site for the ASACS Hub but that we needed to do more analysis to determine the optimum basing solution for the remaining ASACS satellite units.

This work has now concluded, and has confirmed that the relocation of the ASACS satellite units to RAF Coningsby is the best option in operational and financial terms. Therefore, I have decided that, subject to TU consultation, the control and reporting centre—CRC—at RAF Scampton and No.1 air control centre—No.1 ACC—at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will collocate at RAF Coningsby. The relocation is due to complete by the end of 2014.

Following the relocation, it is our intention to draw down RAF Scampton to only those facilities deemed necessary to support the RAF Aerobatic Team’s activities within the reserved airspace above the airfield. RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed once the No.1 ACC has relocated to RAF Coningsby. Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton and Kirton-in-Lindsey will be briefed on the progress of the study.

[MRAF]

Scampton's future will no doubt get crys of public support, once Peter Jackson's $66 million remake of the Dambusters is finally released (2011 - Filming starts 2009). It needs random hollywood stars to re-ignite the great unwashed to remember history. Question is, what will be left by then?

Does anyone know if Scampton has been approched for 'locations' for the filming?

[Wensleydale]

Surely the airfield will be in East Anglia - that is where the B-17s that carried out the raid were based (or will be if we get another "how good old Uncle Sam won the war for the Europeans"). After all, the USN captured the Enigma machine and Guy Gibson was American if the original film is to be believed.....

As they say, history is written by the victors and those with the money.....

[The Adjutant]

Why dont they move all the fighter controllers ( or is it battlespace management operatives these days?) to a site in West London. They can pipe all the radars in by data link and control everything from the one place. They tell me there is space at West Drayton. All they need to do then is give the system a fancy name. How about "Linesman"... or has that been tried before?

[formertonkaplum]

Just a minor thing........

Accomodation ?

[trap one]

The lack of accomodation has ever stoped a move before. Remember the days when Scampton & Conningsby were both the over spill for Waddington. and that was before the AWC & ASTOR arrived there.

[dave_perry]

With all due respect, but,

Dont' the scrambled egg and MP's realise that they can't have all their eggs in one basket as it would jeopardise the very defence of the country. In my opinion Fighters need to be based around the whole country, which at present is OK. Overloading Coningsby is going to be a nightmare with all those movements of aircraft and activity of other Units (CRC). 1 ACC I assume will need some sort of hangar aswell, so where do BBMF go?

Wouln't it be easier to have BBMF and the Reds at Scampton? It's heritage is phenomenal and to get rid of it would be awful! I am not even sure if the RAF does need a shuffle :confused: The way it's going, they're will be 4 bases:


Coningsby - FJ
Waddington - ME
XXXX - RW
Cranwell - TRAINING

Tell if I've got a complete misconception of it all!

[Tim McLelland]

RAFAT will be moving to Waddinton, probably towards the end of next year. Their accommodation is already being built. So it follows that once they've gone, Scampton will be abandoned as has been predicted for years.

As for the movie, I believe Stephen Fry is writing the screen play isn't he? I doubt if he'll be letting the story to be Americanised at all. I aslo heard that most of the aircraft imagery was going to be computer generated so if that's the case, I guess it's irrelevant where it's filmed. No doubt it'll be a load of garbage though, even with Mr Fry's input. Presumably Mr.Gibson's dog won't even get a mention...

[Mr C Hinecap]

dave - you forgot the rest of the UK - Scotland being part of the UK.

[AonP]

Has anyone heard what will happen to KiL once 1ACC vacate in a couple of years time? Believe the plan is for them to move with the CRC to Conningsby.

[Green Flash]

Wasn't KiL pongo (Dropshorts or Engineers??) before 1ACC moved in? Perchance there is an Army unit in Germany earmarked for it?

[MAINJAFAD]

RA Cloud Punchers at KIL before 1ACC if memory serves.

[FNU_SNU]

Hi guys, what does the 'control and reporting centre—CRC—at RAF Scampton' do? It sounds like a regional surveillance unit (I'm currently learing about the ATC and ABM trades). I was at Scampton for 3 years until the end of 07 and never knew it was there.
There were rumours when I was there that 1 ACC was be comming along with the SFC from Boulmer, and TCW from Brize. There is apparently problems as there was a combined mess, with the officers mess unfit for habitation (problems replacing the windows as it's a listed building), and all the juniors accomodation out of bounds due to asbestos.
I heard they were going to ship guys backwards and forwards at weekends and the guys would have to live in tents!
They are selling off even more married quarters as I speak and there'll be next to nothing left.
There were also rumours that the Damb Busters film would be filmed in situ, (the original was filmed at Scampton and Kirton Lindsay down the road, but is now completely civilianised).

[Green Flash]

As I'm the DBO* tonight .....


Damb Busters



* Duty Bite Officer

[MAINJAFAD]

I think you will find that the 1950's Dambusters film was filmed at Scampton and Hemswell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Hemswell). As for what a CRC does, try typing the words in on a search engine and you may find the information you are looking for, like on this site (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafscampton/aboutus/control_and_reporting_centre.cfm).

[FCWhippingBoy]

Can I be DBO for today? Please please please!!!

If you were there for "3 years until the end of 07", you can't have failed to miss the works to renovate the old Airmens' Mess opposite SHQ and install a dirty great air-con system and diesel generators behind it in '05, the vast influx of Scopies doubling the Stn manpower overnight and all the fuss as we stood up operationally in '06.

[oldspook]

I may be wrong but I think there is one scene in the Dambusters which was filmed at Kirton. 2 or 3 Lancs are seen taking off - from the grass - heading west over the cliff - and it is not a long runway! Apparently everyone who was watching the takeoff from the control tower held their collective breaths, and when the aircrew were asked to do it again they politely replied in the negative - they only just made it!

[SirToppamHat]

FC Whipping Boy

I don't think we made that much fuss when we opened the CRC at Scampton.

oldspook

Perfectly possible, as the control tower at KiL was (and is still) in very good condition. See here:

KiL Control Tower and History (http://www.controltowers.co.uk/H-K/Kirton_in_Lindsey.htm)

which also confirms the RA having it (as Rapier Barracks) before 1ACC. As late as 2007 we were still removing scrim scarves from the plumbing systems, as the previous occupants seemed unable to resist the temptation to flush them down their toilets, and it was downhill to the patch.

STH

[AonP]

Just heard from a source at Scampton that the new plan (AL 577)is for all at Scampton to dig their heels in and stay there! Not only that but a friendly ATC bod told me that they are planning to move TAC ATC and their STANEVAL team to the site. But that the compromise will be funded by closing Kirton completely. I know the Reds have never been keen on moving to Waddo and that the CRC would cost a fortune to replicate somewhere else so the decision has been made to stay put - one problem though, the Minister has already committed to its clousure!!

I can see the point of closing Kirton but of course there is no money to replicate all of its functions down at Kirton (Officers' Mess, JRM and accom, Range, Dental Centre, Fuel Pumps, MTMS etc). So my question is does anyone know if money will be found for this or will it just be a lot of driving up at down to an already streched Waddo or Cranditz to try to use their facilities. Also isnt half of the patch at Scampton filled with Waddo personnnel anyway, where will they go once they close the Kirton patch?

[Clockwork Mouse]

Half the patch at Scampton was sold off to civvies a decade ago.

[Jabba_TG12]

Ye Gods, what a mess.


Twas ever thus, however, in the AD world. Most of those who had the faintest idea as to how to even find their own arses with both hands and a gundog left years ago.

[whowhenwhy]

Methinks that I have met AonP recently...:ok:

[Wyler]

I am sure the CS at the MOD will soon issue a pamphlet, on Fair Trade Paper and in 33 languages (inc Braille), telling us all what is going to happen.
In the meantime, keep whispering behind the bike sheds. It helps to pass the time.

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Don't shoot me heard it mentioned as an option more than once.........Lossie co-located with the Typhoon squadrons, space, infrastructure and cheap. Wait out :cool:

[AonP]

The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): I wish to inform the House of the latest position regarding the future basing requirements for the RAF acrobatic team (RAFAT) known as the Red Arrows and of the RAF’s air surveillance and control system (ASACS) units.

The previous Administration announced on 21 May 2008, Official Report, columns 23-24WS, that subject to trade union consultation, the RAFAT would in future operate from RAF Waddington, rather than RAF Scampton by 31 July 2011, although they would continue to use the dedicated airspace above RAF Scampton to enable training for their acrobatic displays.

The previous Administration announced on 28 October 2008, Official Report, columns 25-26WS, the relocation of two air surveillance and control system satellite units. Number 1 Air Control Centre at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton, to RAF Coningsby by the end of 2014.

The strategic defence and security review (SDSR) considered a range of constraints on defence basing plans—the available estate, funding provision, plans already in train and the operational commitments of forces. In the light of the changes resulting from the SDSR, and against the background of the budgetary pressures defence faces, I have concluded that it makes sense to review the planned moves of the RAFAT and the control and reporting centre. In the meantime both units remain at RAF Scampton.

No 1 Air Control Centre has now merged and collocated with the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed by the end of March 2012, other than some service families accommodation and a combined mess for personnel at RAF Scampton.

The RAF will now consider future basing options for both the RAFAT and the ASACS units and make recommendations on options to deliver operational effectiveness and value for money. This will include recommendations on whether RAF Scampton should

draw-down by 2014 as previously announced. This work is expected to complete in 2012 and I will report the outcome to Parliament at that time.

Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton will be briefed on the progress of this work; we will also engage with the trade union.

[Cows getting bigger]

Can someone enlighten me as to why Neatishead CRC moved to Scampton in the first place?

[MAINJAFAD]

NATO removed the requirement for CRC's to be in bunkers. Boulmer was already having UCMP installed and Buchan was going to shut as soon as Neatishead had UCMP installed. Of course Neatishead also was dammed by having Coltishall shut as well, thus nowhere for any of their personnel to live!

[Wander00]

Pity really, I enjoyed my tour at Neatishead

[Impiger]

This isn't a u-turn just another review! I thought the build at Waddo for the Reds was well under-way. One of the problems with keeping Scampton for flying was the £9M (2008 prices) or so needed to refurbish the runway - hardly good vfm for the Reds to use it for about half the year.

Of course the review could just be code for: 'actually Sir Humphrey I don't think we need move these units out of Scampton when we could just delete them instead'!!!!

[jamesdevice]

"RAF acrobatic team" ?????
Did the minister really say that?
So the future RAF display team is to be as circus performers, sans aircraft? The Flying Reds formation trapeze team perhaps?

[polyglory]

Baker Street Boys RAF Bicycle Display Team (http://www.goodwood.co.uk/revival/news-and-coverage/articles/baker-street-boys-raf-bicycle-display-team.aspx)

Anything is possible:cool:

[EWOAWOTPMC and Bar]

If the original study had been undertaken correctly, rather than by someone after early promotion, the right answers may have been deduced. However, it wasn't and they weren't. Still early promotion arrived and he'll now, no doubt, be fighting to keep the place open as the new staish....................:ugh:

[skippedonce]

Do I detect a note of Schadenfreud with the last comment?;) The turkey has certainly come home to roost at Scampton: there was never the room at Coningsby to start with!:=

[EWOAWOTPMC and Bar]

Wow, took me a while to look up the word. Yr dead right Skippedonce there never was any room at Cy but that's what the hats wanted so that's what the study showed as the best option. If the paper had been drawn up honestly we wouldn't be in this mess and would probably be sat at Leeming by now (the original original answer). It's a shame 1ACC and CRC have merged its ripped the heart out of the latter for what in the long term will only be pennies saved. I don't take satisfaction in his misfortune, after all he got promoted, but I hope he can hear the hundreds of voices saying 'i told you so' ringing loud and clear in his ears. Maybe the next study will be based on fact and honesty mind you.......In the meantime it allows the good humoured mess rivalry between 1ACC and the Reds to continue for a while.

[Canadian Break]

EWOAWOTPMC (http://www.pprune.org/members/377778-ewoawotpmc-and-bar)
Perhaps you could enlighten us mere mortals where that flash of brilliance came from because, to my certain knowledge, the chap that came up with the original plan did not get early promotion and neither did he fight to go to Scampton as the Staish!:ugh:

[EWOAWOTPMC and Bar]

Well Canadian break I can assure you you are incorrect. The original plan had the move to Leeming prior to Scampton. Then in the process yet another study was instigated 'ASACS Basing Study' circa 2008 and this guy was the author of the paper to send us to Cy - which was, and still is, complete nonsense. He was duly promoted and is now the new Staish - fact. I know because, I along with several other Fighter Controllers and mates from other involved branches poo poo'd the whole idea when we were asked for input me old.

[OOpsIdiditagain]

Gotta agree with EWOAWOetc on this. I was there and I saw what went on too. But plenty of others would have done the same to appease their 1 up its the way of the world.

[Canadian Break]

Sorry chaps but you are both wrong - the plan was originally written in 2005/06 - it may well have taken 2 years to percolate through "the system" and other than The Fat Controller the only "gainsayers" were the people (some of, but by no means all) at Waddington who would have had to do some work at Scampton - thus spending a little less time attending to their gardens. So, the bloke that you thought wrote the plan - didn't, because I know who did and where the original draft is!:ok:

[XV208 SNOOPY]

If I recall that far back, the 2004/5 plan was the minor unit basing study, and came from HQ Strike (as it was.) The plan was to move a number of the ACSU & ACSSU plus the A6 Hub to Scampton.

As a result, we moved from Benson to Scampton. As we were a small, strange mob, we were easy to move early on.

The first "inaugral" DiN at Kirton I (just) recall was a jolly good night, with Gp Capt B***** as the new Staish.

[Canadian Break]

Snoopy; the plan to merge 1ACC/Scampton and elements of the FC world at Waddington - all to work from Scampton was not part of the minor units basing study. It was hatched in a garden shed- ask AO BATWOMAN!:ok:

[EWOAWOTPMC and Bar]

Well Canadian Break we'll just have to agree to differ. Being on the Unit that was moved and involved in most of the A4 planning meetings run by this bloke I am pretty sure my facts are correct. There were also some in the ASACS part of COS OPS empire who also expressed concerns about the 'truth' in the findings and Recs made to Strat Plans. If the AOBATWOMAN is the current one she was head of the ASACS part of COS OPS at the time and had reservations too. The published plan had us moving to Scampton then Cy. The Leeming option was well before this and done with very little actual planning at all. As for having an original draft well anyone with access the DII can see that. Those with personal records of their own inputs will also see the author to whom I refer. In fact any glance at the minutes would show that too. I suspect we are talking about similar things written in similar time frames but just who appended their signature to various versions may be up for debate. All I know is the guy charged with the writing the paper, running the meetings and providing the recommendations (required by his boss and not the facts) is the new staish at Scampton. As for getting some FCs to move outta Waddo to do some work at Scampton always was a pipe dream:ok:

[Canadian Break]

Talk to Snoopy - we've got it all squared away now.

[AonP]

Looks like the closure of Kirton in Lindsey has started:

RAF personnel move will affect trade in Kirton Lindsey | This is Scunthorpe (http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/RAF-personnel-affect-trade-Kirton-Lindsey/story-16184353-detail/story.html)

Does this mean that Scampton now has a long term future? I'm sure it would please the guys and girls down there if it did as they might actually spend some money on it! Last time I passed through the whole place looked pretty run down and lacking in real facilities for families etc. Does anyone havve any up to date info?

[thing]

Had a bolthole there last year. Runway and taxiways are dropping to bits, majority of married quarters were sold off some years ago.

[AonP]

Finally a decision has been made, Scampton to stay open, runway to be resurfaced. No news on whether anything else will be brought into the 21st Century (Quarters, Single Accommodation, etc)! I presume this will result in the final closure of Kirton as soon as the money can be scraped together to co-locate everything rather than the current 15 mile split.

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Estate and Environment | RAF units to remain at Scampton (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EstateAndEnvironment/RafUnitsToRemainAtScampton.htm)

[Easy Street]

Scampton to stay open, runway to be resurfaced

Shome mishtake, shurely?

[AonP]

The local MP seems to be trying to find out what is happening.

Fears for future of former Kirton RAF base lead Scunthorpe MP Nic Dakin to fire off questions to forces' minister | This is Scunthorpe (http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/Fears-future-Kirton-RAF-base-lead-Scunthorpe-MP/story-17265746-detail/story.html)

Has anyone heard anything? Is anyone still living there? Scampton were using the Officers' Mess and some MQs.

[Lima Juliet]

Who cares about Kirton? Get rid of it. It's too close to S-****-HORPE anyway!

Sorry about the stutter...:E

PS it appears Prune doesn't allow the c-bomb, even if hyphenated within the name of a town...

[BBadanov]

Who cares about Kirton? Get rid of it. It's too close to S-****-HORPE anyway!

LJ, did you put the **** in S-****-HORPE? Somebody did!

[polyglory]

It was better situated at RAF Wattisham, however it had its moments:)

[Pure Pursuit]

LJ is spot on. Mess is falling apart and it's WAY too close to Scunny. That place is one huge DMPI.

[AonP]

RAF Scampton must be about to close, soon after refurbishing the JRs blocks, now they are resurfacing the runway!

BBC News - Red Arrows: Temporary move to RAF Cranwell whilst runway repaired (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-21194193)