PA pension. Bah, Humbug!

[I'llhaveaG&TMate]

I've just been offered PA. Not a problem you might think however, I'm still on the 75 pension scheme and, at 55, I'll be £6k/year worse off (and £15k gratuity) than if I was on the 05 pension scheme. It would now seem that I cannot elect to change to the new pension scheme if I take PA.
Are there any others out there who have found themselves in this situation, or has anyone been able to appeal and change their pension?
Thanks

[movadinkampa747]

Did you not receive your pension pack when the change happened?

[LFFC]

Are there any others out there who have found themselves in this situation, or has anyone been able to appeal and change their pension?


There are loads of aircrew who have fallen into that trap, and several career spine sqn ldrs have told me that it's perhaps the most corrosive factor that has driven them to PVR.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has been allowed to swap pension schemes since April and that's not going to change. The best you can hope for is another FRI aimed at keeping you in for a few more years until you're perhaps too old for the airlines. However, I understand that the wheels have finally realised just how divisive a narrowly aimed FRI would be - so don't hold your breath! :ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

However, I understand that the wheels have finally realised just how divisive a narrowly aimed FRI would be - so don't hold your breath! :ugh:

They have probably learnt from the civil service bonus fiasco and we are only talking of a few hundreds of quids after tax.

[Confucius]

I've just been offered PA. Not a problem you might think however, I'm still on the 75 pension scheme and, at 55, I'll be £6k/year worse off (and £15k gratuity) than if I was on the 05 pension scheme. It would now seem that I cannot elect to change to the new pension scheme if I take PA.
Are there any others out there who have found themselves in this situation, or has anyone been able to appeal and change their pension?
Thanks

Same here. At the time I was given the choice I had to work on the worst case scenario: being out of a job 2 years later. If I had changed and not been offered PA then come retirement in '08 I would've been up :mad: creek without a paddle.

You win some, you lose some. If I could change now then I'd break their arm off.

[ProfessionalStudent]

Those of us who stayed on the old scheme did so because we weren't committed "lifers". Maybe many of us hoped for PA but these days there's no guarantee of that, so we hedged our bets by not switching. Now you've got PA, are you sure you're going to be a lifer - or might the system still hack you off sufficiently for you to leave? If we weren't willing to commit to 55 by changing to the new scheme (I understand that the 2 aren't linked per), we have to swallow the pill when offered PA. As my old geography teacher used to say, it's just the "Bounce of the Ball."

[ethereal entity]

I have heard lots of rumour about the current state of the FRI. The latest was 100K :eek: for CS Sqn Ldr, and extension of FRI2 for the rest. Has anyone heard anything different or got any better info? Have heard from a Senior Officer at PMA that the FRI's are definately coming and have been 'approved', and have heard from a chap who sits two desks from him that they have not:ugh: . Current FRI ends in Mar 07 - anyone have a clue when we might hear something - I can't believe that PMA aren't desperate to get something in place - everyone I know with only a year or 2 left is planning to go (except for 1 or 2 chaps).

Or will PMA simply let people leave and continue to fill Sqn's with Abbo's, and let the experience leave:D

[MG]

I got offered PA around the same time as the decision had to be made. Yes, if I leave at 55, the new scheme is tons better. However, not wanting to commit 100% to a 55 or nothing option, I stayed on the 75 scheme. If I do end up staying, well it's one of those things and I'll be worse off. Somehow, I doubt it.
Life is full of decisions and you won't get all of them correct. Those of you offered PA but still under the old scheme, well you can still leave or you stay and have a job until you're 55. Maybe, to make up the shortfall, you could invest in property or something? It's not so bad, really, is it, that it's driven guys to PVR?

[bwfg3]

I suppose we all sign onto the best deal as we see it at the time. I personally signed onto AFPS 05 as I was on NCA PA spine. However, here I am now, 2 years on and betrayed by PMA,(or should I say, foolish enough to believe them)? and effectively being forced to leave. I intended to stay on until 55, but my family is important too. I remain unfazed by this as **** happens. However,I have heard a "rumour" and note the quotation marks ,that because of poor information at the time of the changeover, a one off transfer between 05 and 75 may be possible. More info as I get get it, but I'm not holding my breath.:rolleyes:

[I'llhaveaG&TMate]

Guess it's Bristows or Gulfair for me then. Shame really, as I do still enjoy the flying.

[vecvechookattack]

Hang on a mo.,......everyone was given the option....everybody was fully brief on the consequences....you all received glossy's, briefs. emails. chats with the Boss etc etcf..the process went on and on and on and at the end of it you all made a decision as to which pension you wanted to be on.......

...............................and now you moan about finding yourself on the wrong one.....sorry shipmate but you were given enough warning and advice.

[I'llhaveaG&TMate]

I would suspect that only those who knew they were going to be offered or were actually in service until 55 would have transferred to the 05 scheme. Don't forget, service beyond 38 is not guaranteed and the old pension scheme at least gave you a pension from that point. The new pension scheme gives you next to nothing until you're 55. It would have been a fairly dull choice to 'hope' that I would get offered PA as nothing seems certain anymore.
What annoys me is the fact that a change in circumstances, or terms of service, is not accompanied with an option to change your pension. I may find myself serving with someone who is doing exactly the same as me, under the same terms but, for an input to a computer, will get more at the end of it. Seems a strange method for the retention of personnel.

[MG]

Vevchook....etc!
Hear, hear. There was even a computer programme to help with the maths.

[arthurwellington]

The advice and calculator is all very good for working out the figures.

However, for many of us approaching an option point at the time of the decision it was not so straightforward. If the rest of the jigsaw pieces were not in place the temptation was to play safe, as mentioned above, and remain on AFPS 75. For those who subsequently (i.e soon after the cut-off)decided that staying for the long haul was the way ahead it would have been nice to have an option to change to the 05 option.

I sound like a bleeding heart liberal, but after 18 years a bit more flexibility at the moment critique would have been appreciated; a 'let us know once you have decided to waive your option point' attitude would have worked wonders.

It's not the reason I have decided to take my option but it did get under my skin enough to be a factor.

[Kitbag]

Agree wholeheartedly with Vechook. It is a decision you made, just like the rest of us.
I think I'm right in suggesting that your PA income is going to be greater than if you hadn't taken it?
Just 'cos you bet wrong is no reason to be treated as a special case, is it? ;)

[Sloppy Link]

You can change your pension decision post Apr 06 if and only if the decision you made prior to that date was based on incorrect information. I know, I originally elected to go with AFPS 05 but when it was discovered that information provided to me by my own desk officer was incorrrect, I approached the pensions office who allowed me to revert to AFPS 75 in Sep 06. Desk officer had a lot to answer for......yeah, right! Not even a sorry to all those he gave false hopes to or who have made decisions based on his wrong writings. The thing now is that now I am on AFPS 75, I will definitely not remain until my 55th birthday AFPS 05 would have kept me. A retention dis-incentive.

[RODF3]

Hang on a mo.,......everyone was given the option....everybody was fully brief on the consequences....you all received glossy's, briefs. emails. chats with the Boss etc etcf..the process went on and on and on and at the end of it you all made a decision as to which pension you wanted to be on.......
...............................and now you moan about finding yourself on the wrong one.....sorry shipmate but you were given enough warning and advice.
Totally agree. But at the time those concerned were only employed to their 38/16 point and it was upto the whim of the selection board as to whether PA would be offered. It would be a brave or foolishly confident or stupid man to make the leap onto a new scheme which would give you a tiny lump sum when you were booted out and no pension until 55.
Now PA has been offered to those concerned, surely this is a change to their terms of service ie longer contract,different pay spine. With these facts they should be offered an option to change at the same time as the PA offer.:\

[Kitbag]

RODF3

This sitation also pertains to all enlisted ranks who would get the boot at 22 or 30 years of service if they don't at the whim of a selection board get promoted to FS with the offer of service to age 55. It was a risk many were not prepared to take, maybe they should also be given the option of moving to AFPS 05? Somehow I think that isn't likely to happen

[RODF3]

RODF3
This sitation also pertains to all enlisted ranks who would get the boot at 22 or 30 years of service if they don't at the whim of a selection board get promoted to FS with the offer of service to age 55. It was a risk many were not prepared to take, maybe they should also be given the option of moving to AFPS 05? Somehow I think that isn't likely to happen
Why shouldn't they? Their TOS have changed. Changing to the AFPS05 also acts as a retention scheme, as once you've signed to it, if you leave before 50 (roughly) your pension/gratuity would be significantly less. with that in mind, it must be worth the Pension Pols people and the retention people at PMA getting together.:ugh:

[GasFitter]

Tough Choices ... Loadsa money ... or Loadsa Loadsa money! You could always turn it down!

[Ginseng]

All reasonable replies so far. It was a once-only offer, and we discussed the various implications at length here over many months.

However:

Sauce for the goose and all that. If it is OK for the MoD to say "you made your bed ....", why is it also OK for those currently serving on SSC, who made a reasonable election at the time to remain on AFPS75, to be told now that they can have a PC if they want one, but only if they agree to retrospectively change their election and transfer to AFPS05? A case of the MoD wanting to have its cake and eat it, I think. Moreover, it must be a considerable disincentive to those who might give a few more years now, but are not sure they want to commit all the way to 55.

Find me my gun, I feel a sudden need to shoot myself in the foot!

Regards

Ginseng

[LFFC]

Now that's very interesting. From what I've heard, I'm sure that if you offered Career Spine sqn ldrs the chance to convert to the PA spine and swap to AFPS05 then a lot would stay for much longer.

But you're right Ginseng, this was discussed months ago - so maybe the wheels don't think that it's necessary to offer that.

[Bitberg7]

Ginseng, where did the info below come from? If this is the policy, it may give ammunition for those transferring to PA who would love the opportunity to take advantage of AFPS05.
why is it also OK for those currently serving on SSC, who made a reasonable election at the time to remain on AFPS75, to be told now that they can have a PC if they want one, but only if they agree to retrospectively change their election and transfer to AFPS05? A case of the MoD wanting to have its cake and eat it, I think. Ginseng

[Mick Strigg]

You win some, you lose some!

There was only one small group of people that were guaranteed to "win some" with AFPS 05, those that were already PA spine and intending to stay until 55.

For everone else, it was a gamble that you took at the time.

It looks like you lost this time!

[Ginseng]

Exactly that happened to an acquitance of mine. The offer was transfer to PC to serve to 18 years/age 40 point with transfer to AFPS05 - take it or leave it.

He left it.

Regards

Ginseng

[Hueymeister]

Gin and Tonic

With you all the way....best you start whipping some of the young'uns in your orrrrifice, lest you have too little time to mentor them whilst winding your enormous clock. I said CLOCK.

HM

ps Squelch told me to write this!

:uhoh: :p :E

[I'llhaveaG&TMate]

This internet is a marvellous invention! Apparently I can receive private messages.
If anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation would like to pass me some details via a PM, then maybe this problem can be addressed.
For those of you who haven't guessed my identity: 'orange'.
Thanks