Lear 45

[judy the rudder]

Fresh out of F.S with a Lear 45 type, landed the sim no problems closed the levers at 50ft hold the pitch attitude no problems they said.Did the circuits the other day in the real thing wow (!)did the same and 'crashed' the aircraft onto the runway! After the 6 landing I felt like a marshmellow. left a look on the instructors face wondering had I really obtained a rating or had he got the wrong person in the plane! Damaged pride I felt crap afterwards can somebody tell this greenhorn what I am/am not doing I have an idea but any experiences out there would make this aviator fly again!:ugh:
JTR - cheers!

[LRdriver II]

yes. dont worry about it. The sims all suck when it comes to landing and nothing really beats getting experience in type. Dont let it get you down as you will need a couple of landings to get a feel for where the wheels are.

Practice,practice,practice as they say..

[CL300]

Fresh out of F.S with a Lear 45 type, landed the sim no problems closed the levers at 50ft hold the pitch attitude no problems they said.Did the circuits the other day in the real thing wow (!)did the same and 'crashed' the aircraft onto the runway! After the 6 landing I felt like a marshmellow. left a look on the instructors face wondering had I really obtained a rating or had he got the wrong person in the plane! Damaged pride I felt crap afterwards can somebody tell this greenhorn what I am/am not doing I have an idea but any experiences out there would make this aviator fly again!:ugh:
JTR - cheers!
You are actually doing nothing wrong, you are just applying the procedure used in test flying to certify the whole thing, close the throttle at 50 ft threshold, and land about 900 ft later at an impact of no more than 720ft/min... Certification.....Operationnal wise you will find that closing the throttle at 20 ft is a much better option, or cross the Threshold at +10 and close the throttle.... same energy on impact however regarding lawyer stuff, Vref + delta correction is a better safeguard. Lear 45 is floatting a little if you close the throttle too late, you will find what suits you with experience. the goal is to stop the aircraft only on the asphalt portion of the runway, it is usually not a good idea to use any stopways or clearways in this process :p

Well if you want to fly again of course !!:D

Remember : Stay OUT of the trees !

[Chippie Chappie]

Hey Judy,

Welcome to the "Up Periscope" club. Most have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. If your head-set stayed on, it can't have been to bad.

An instructor (on bug smashers) once told me to try and fix the "picture" when you are lined up on the runway for take-off in you mind. That is the picture you need to roughly see when you touch down.

When on final, it helps me to dart my eyes to and from the near end and far ends of the runway. Can't promise anything but it helps me with my depth and approach angle perspective.

Finally, don't listen to the "50,20,10" call the machine is blasting in your ear, that can cause round-out problems when it doesn't call out :eek:

Your next flight will be better, remember that.

Cheers,

Chips

[LRdriver II]

Finally, don't listen to the "50,20,10" call the machine is blasting in your ear, that can cause round-out problems when it doesn't call out :eek:


Funny that... mine must be broken...it always says : "50,40,30,10......20,30..20..40.." must be confused the old thing

[Chippie Chappie]

Not sure, I don't listen to it :}

[BitterFlex]

Dont worry mate, I work for a British company and everyone there has the same problem.... just kidding, you just need to just keep at it. I have seen massive improvment in some of the guys/girls I've flown with. Now I think they'll outpreform me.:(
BF

[dynamite dean]

thanks chaps!

[judy the rudder]

right back on the horse it is!

[bjhello]

Hey bitterflex,

you are not that good,:}

But the lear is more easy than the big ones!!!;)

[BitterFlex]

BJ, little buddy, you know I am, I have yet to see you do a good one. :}
Luckely for you, your Vref is now so low that you might be able to handle it:E
Love you bro...
BF

[transilvana]

I fly the lear60 and normally cut thorttles between 10-20 feet, also depends on wind, if it is too windy I wait until 10 feet.

[Oluf]

Hi Judy

The issue of only having one approach plate during the approach is as far as I have seen very common in the Corporate environment, and as I see it,there is nothing wrong with that as long as a good SOP ensures that the crew are all in the loop for what is going on, and is going to happen. A good brief for the approach by the HP followed by a challenge of agreement/understanding accepted by the NHP. Whereafter the NHP crosscheckes the progress and aids the HP in adhering to the Briefed procedure, Good CRM will ensure that the crew both stay in the "loop".

Anyways, my 5 cents worth.

Good luck

O:oh:

[yacan]

Flying Learjets for many years I must say closing throttles at 50ft is a pretty stupid thing to do. The old 20s needed a lot of thrust during the approach and the newer planes, even if they float a lot better, like the power. Fly Vref + and cut between 10 and 20ft, like CL300 and Trans said. That´s how you fly a Lear . It can be done very smoothly :-)

[Miles Magister]

Judy,

It is a good idea to have 2 copies of the plates but it is an expensive addition. Most Businerss jets do not have the capacity. However when preparing briefing packs I get ops to print 2 sets of the departure and destination plates from JepView for the crew which are thrown away after the flight.

I have been on an aircraft as PH with the company director of Flt Ops as the PNH checking me. I briefed the departure and handed the Jepp plate to him to look at the picture, he handed it back to me upside down and you can guess the rest!!! But it was my fault because I was PH and should have been more careful. I learn't about flying and CRM from that.

The landing technique for the LR45 is described in the POH which is to cross the threshold at 55ft at Vref wiht the power at idle. This will require a significant pitch change at the flare to execute a smooth landing. Be careful about comparing techniques to the older Lears as it is a completely different wing on the modern LR45 so they actually only have th ename in common. However if you do add speed and power above these limits be careful about the increased landing distances, they increase by a surprisingly large amount. I believe BA mandate that if the threshold crossing speed is increased by more than 7kts above Vref then the landing distances must be recalculated. As an exercice, for example coming over the threshold 10kts above Vref you can use the average between using the tailwind graph at 10T and using the distances for a higher weight which would give a 10kt higher Vref. Have a look at the LDR as it will surprise you. If you are any more than 55ft above the piano keys it will add even more. Remember the JAR-OPS rule of 1.67 x the landing distance rule applies to the profile you fly not the published Vref figures.

I do not intend any of the above to be advice on how to operate the Lear, but merely to prompt you into trying to understand what you are doing.

MM

[judy the rudder]

Thanks to all for your viewpoints and tips much appreciated.
After going back to my company and CP and going through all of these points they have helped me a tremendous amount and pointed me in the right direction to which I am sincerley greatful. I have found it more difficult than I thought it would be transitioning from the sim.

So for my employer out there and they probably dont read this many,many thanks for all your words of wisdom and patience if it wasnt for those chaps I would be watching somebody else sit in my seat and do a better job.:sad:
JTF