NJS B717s

[James4th]

Just wondering how the operation of the 717 is panning out in NJS service and how the boys and girls like flying it. I have heard various stories ..........

and you may be getting some more .....:eek: (Aircraft not stories!)

[airbusthreetwenty]

Just wondering how the operation of the 717 is panning out in NJS service and how the boys and girls like flying it. I have heard various stories ..........

and you may be getting some more .....:eek: (Aircraft not stories!)

More 717's? From where??

I hope they're going to bring some spares for them too!

[bne019]

More 717's? From where??

I hope they're going to bring some spares for them too!

Probably the 6 (?) 717-200s parked at Newcastle and Brisbane..

Cheers

[west atc]

Does anyone have any idea if and when the B717's will be RVSM approved? It would make our job easier as well as cause less restriction to requested levels. It won't help when the restriction is the Skywest F100 though.

On the Skywest F100's, anyone know whether they are planned to have RVSM approval? I notice the two Alliance F100s that have started operations out of Perth have RVSM so it's not an aircraft problem.

When Skywest get the A320s will they be RVSM approved, on the history of Skywest I would guess not!

[apacau]

I wonder whether the DJ ERJ purchase will prompt Qantas to bring the 717s back to the east coast? With a few rows of J class, I can just see them running a MEL-CBR shuttle or a few flights CBR-ADL etc.

[Capn Bloggs]

West ATC, before you criticise non-RVSM operators, have a close look at the CAAP and other requirements for RVSM approval. The is a huge amount of regulatory effort involved.

NJS' 717 RVSM approval is coming very soon, or so the rumour has it.

Apacau,
Wouldn't it be logical for DJ to run a few Juingle Jets in WA/NT, and so wouldn't the 717s be best staying there to compete? Or do you live in the centre of the universe, Sydney? :)

[James4th]

Are spares a problem? 'Cause if dont spend the money on maint/spares now on the 717 she will will eventually become harder to maintain to the extent of becoming uneconomic to operate. I know the NJS tender for the 717s contained an allowance for spares/Maint that was so low it made people think at the time. But I am sure that the Old Girl is overcoming all that and flying like the DC9 clone she is. Long may she grace our skys.............

[RENURPP]

West ATC,
we want to know the same thing. NJS pilots.
Management keeps telling us next month.
There maybe some hurdles to overcome to obtain RVSM, however you won't ever convince me it should take over 2 yrs. Thats just poor management like the rest of it.
Are spares a problem?
Trying to get spares off Impulse/Poxstar initially was a problem. Now they are not operating the type any more the problem appears to be solved.

Bloggs, sydney is about 2000nm closer to the centre of the universe than :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: PERTH:yuk: :yuk:

[bushy]

The centre of the universe is in Asia.
Darwin has a road (the Stuart highway) that runs from Darwin to Australia.

[RENURPP]

The centre of the universe is in Asia.
Darwin has a road (the Stuart highway) that runs from Darwin to Australia.
And lets keep it that way!!
Bloody NT Labor government has decreed to make it a lot further by road then it was previously. Speed limits would you believe.:}
With luck she will have more time for coffee with you soon CC.
Speaking to one of the F/A's the other night, she did astro physics at Uni, so I will find out where the real centre of the universe is.
Bet its no where near WA.:E

[Capn Bloggs]

Oh dear, I think Renurpppp has finally gone troppo! :}

[west atc]

West ATC, before you criticise non-RVSM operators, have a close look at the CAAP and other requirements for RVSM approval. The is a huge amount of regulatory effort involved.


Wasn't meant to be a criticism of Skywest itself, just wondering if Skywest are trying to get RVSM approval for the F100's. I know that the F100 is still relatively new to Skywest and I realise that there is a lot of effort involved to get approval, but is Skywest trying to get the approval?

I just made the point that the Alliance F100's have RVSM approval but Skywest don't.

Good to see that the NJS 717's are nearly there! :D

[D'pirate]

Skywest is also going through the RVSM process with submission made to Airworthiness and Training for Engineering just about complete. Verification flights to come.

[cunninglinguist]

West ATC, the Admiral decreed it was'nt a priority, but then again nothing seems to be when you're not paying for fuel :rolleyes:
Speaking of the Admiral, which one of you suckers has to baby, I mean, fly with him :yuk:

OOOOOOOOOps, Clarrie, have I inadvertantly sunk to bitter and twistedness :ugh:

[Capn Bloggs]

which one of you suckers has to baby, I mean, fly with him
Agro and The Speed Demon! :}

[cunninglinguist]

Geeeeeeeez, what did they do to deserve that :suspect:

[topend3]

717 is very restricted on some routes. Example : Into Newman presently they are capping loads at 88 pax, that means 27 empty seats each flight...

[Pete Conrad]

Nah, the spare 717's are heading for Jetconnect.

[Capn Bloggs]

717 is very restricted on some routes. Example : Into Newman presently they are capping loads at 88 pax, that means 27 empty seats each flight...
You mean OUT OF ZNE they are capping the seats...

It's all in the chip. Change the donk chip for the big mother and the jets could be full. Besides, there ain't that many people who want ot go to ZNE! :}

[Capn Bloggs]

717 is very restricted on some routes. Example : Into Newman presently they are capping loads at 88 pax, that means 27 empty seats each flight...
You mean OUT OF ZNE they are capping the seats...
It's all in the chip. Change the donk chip for the big mother and the jets could be full. Besides, there ain't that many people who want to go to ZNE! :}

[ANCaptain]

Geeeeeeeez, what did they do to deserve that :suspect:

It just proves there is a God after all :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[topend3]

actually bloggsy there is high demand for seats to and fro ZNE, of course this does not necessarily mean these pax want to be going there. my apologies the capping is only ex ZNE, I believe QF are looking at 737 ops as an alternative....

[James4th]

Well that's what happens when you put 717s on routes they were not designed for!

[Capt Claret]

RENURPP said
Bloody NT Labor government has decreed to make it a lot further by road then it was previously. Speed limits would you believe.
With luck she will have more time for coffee with you soon CC.

RENURPP, I don't think the decision will give her any more time for coffee. If, and it's a BIG IF she gets voted out over a 130 kph speed limit and a demerit points system, then folks deserve what they'll get. A bit like people voting for little johnny, saying re the new IR legislation, "oh, they wouldn't do that". Those chickens are only just starting to roost.

Besides that, in a Legislative Assembly of 17 (or is it 18?) v 4, it'd bee too big a swing. Bloody hell, a 210's got more seats than the CLP! :E

James4th

What routes was the 717 designed for?

[The Voice]

I'm not too sure that the alternative will strike fear and terror within her heart either ..

[James4th]

Shortish routes, from airfields that are neither hot nor high.

[cunninglinguist]

Topend:in summer capped ex PBO, ex ZNE, ex KA, ex AS ( although KG is avail for fuel ), and bloggsy wasnt being entirely honest, unless they have addressed approach climb issue, then they are sometime restricted IN to those ports.

Clarry: The Yanks designed it, and use it as such, out of 2500m + runways into 2500+ runways.
Unfortunately I do not think there has been or will be an aeroplane designed for exactly what NJS use them for. ( that was definitely not bitter and twisted :cool:

[ditzyboy]

717s on routes they were not designed for!

Well said... 717 was designed for and perfect on the routes it serviced in the guise of QantasLink/Impulse.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, hey? Just a thought...

[vh_ajm]

So when a modification to a chip is made, what does this refer to and how does this increase the thrust from the engine?

The caps do not seem to be working in the centre...

[Kransky]

Just wondering ... how the boys and girls like flying it.

Fantastic aeroplane the enjoyment of which is frustrated by mismanagement. Great airplane miss it but not the company.

[Capn Bloggs]

unless they have addressed approach climb issue

WHAT Approach Climb issue? 46.1 at 45° at ASP. What more do you want?

Well said... 717 was designed for and perfect on the routes it serviced in the guise of QantasLink/Impulse.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, hey? Just a thought...
Ditzy, you're hangin' on too tight. Let it go mate, let it go! :}

when a modification to a chip is made, what does this refer to and how does this increase the thrust from the engine?

Big chip takes the donks from 18.5k lb per engine to 21.5k lb per engine.

The point is, QF needed/wanted to exit the 146 and also obviously wanted to replace it. 737-800 were obviously out of the question as loads at the time were too light, and even now they can be used more effectively elsewhere. The 717 might have been right for Impulse, but it just didn't fit QF except as it's vehicle for progressing GoD's JQ.

One could easily argue that it is THE most suitable jet for the longish WA routes. BME, PHE, KGI, PBO, ZNE, KTA. Sure, they are limited in summer (with the small chips), but what aircraft, at the total operating cost of the 717, wouldn't be? Fukker 100s? Too small. Sure you could replace it with 737-800s or DeathStars, but how much more would it cost? Have a look at the fares QF are charging and then analyse the cost of the Op. NJS/717 is an absolute goldmine for GoD (I suspect a bit cheaper than JQ unless the bureaucracy weighs NJS down...).

[neville_nobody]

Have a look at the fares QF are charging and then analyse the cost of the Op


Could you explain to us then where you get the 717 and the 737 going to the same place (ie KG, KA, BM) how come the 717 fares are always a little more expensive for the same flight? And you don't get any inflight entertainment.

[Capt Claret]

Obviously Ansett & Taa-Taas had it wrong when they ordered the 727 & DC9 all those years ago. YSCB, YAYE, YBAS, etc. have historically had troubles during the summer months.

Could a 738 pilot advise if the 738 can take off at MBRW at all ports, all through the year?

[Capn Bloggs]

Nev,

how come the 717 fares are always a little more expensive for the same flight? And you don't get any inflight entertainment.

I can't. Except that the BabeLink girls seem to be better than the old dragons so you should pay more! :} All I'm pointing out is that the NJS 717 op for QF is a good deal. Ripping off the punters? That's up to you to decide. A very very good deal for GoD and his shareholders? Yep Yep.

[James4th]

CC, the DC9 had/has a lot less performance than the 717 but yes you are correct the old Diesel struggled in hot/high combinations with a full load.

[Australia2]

Is this "admiral" returned from Japan by chance ?

Cheers Oz2

[resboy]

Could you explain to us then where you get the 717 and the 737 going to the same place (ie KG, KA, BM) how come the 717 fares are always a little more expensive for the same flight? And you don't get any inflight entertainment.

I think you'll find QF/QFlink Pricing and Yield control the pricing for both QF and QFlink flights on any route the duplicate. No conspiracy.

Just as a brief example, Sun 12 Nov PER-BME
QF1930 still selling Red-e-Deals $255o/w (QFlink)
QF1074 only selling Fully Flexible $690o/w (Mainline)

or Sun 12 Nov PER-KGI
QF1884 $165o/w (QFlink)
QF1064 $250o/w (Mainline)

:ugh:

[neville_nobody]

Hats off to the QFLink Cabin Crew recruiting team absolute sterling job :} :}
Not only in the looks department but they do a fantastic job in sometimes very trying circumstances. (Just think planeload of miners and you'll get the idea!)

Had a hunt through a few prices and it seems that QF have taken my comments on board as the flights I compared now have the same redi-deal prices regardless of aircraft. Doh:ugh: Whereas it used to be that the 717 was an extra 10-20 dollars more.

[Capn Bloggs]

Well you lot I've done a little research and apart from an aberration at AYQ (what is that NAV up to?) the 717 is equal to or better in performance than the mighty 146-300/507 at all of the ports it regularly goes to. The fact that it can carry another 30 passengers when it's cooler (ie tourist season) is a bonus. So it seems that using it to replace the 146 wasn't such a bad idea, esp when the option of hotting up the donks hasn't even been used yet.

[Led Zep]

"Why does a MODCHIP make such a difference?"
Unlock your engines' hidden thrust safely and easily with MODCHIP technology

Did you know that your aeroplane's engines can produce more power than they do in standard trim?
Then why don't they? The factory detuned the engines to protect them from careless pilots, shonky LAMEs and water contaminated fuel.
But you are a professional pilot working for the leading provider of contracted aerial passenger and freight services to large civil and government organisations in Australasia. You take exceptional care of your aeroplanes. It's not fair that you are hindered by the conservative factory settings.
Unfortunately, there hasn't been a way to unlock that power - unless you spent big bucks buying off CASA FOIs to overlook iLLEgAl MoDz on your donks.

But now there's an easy and effective way to access that power technology from Modchip. It's performance software for your engine control unit (ECU). Like a shot of adrenaline, clever programming wakes your engines up. Your aeroplane feels crisp and more responsive. You get improved acceleration, quicker throttle response and better flyability.
To maximise the thrust available for everyday flying, Modchip devised a seven-step process to enhance:
Low throttle "snap" for taxying
Three quarter throttle for brisk acceleration from long runways such as YPPH
Full throttle response to get you safely airborne from short strips at high weights and ISA +30 conditionsWant more information? Direct you maintenance controller to page 160 of this month's Wheels magazine. :}

[TurbTool]

A colleague of mine that works at Jet* recently received an e-mail from a Spanair pilot representative advising that Spanair were negotiating with Qantas for the acquisition of 14 B717 aircraft and wished to negotiate pay rates and conditions to introduce this type. Spanair is allegedly a spanish operator. it was a request for any information regarding the disposition of the existing B717 fleet in Australia and the likelihood of the aircraft leaving Oz soon.

I don't know the outcome or other portent of the negotiations but it was an interesting slant.

[podbreak]

Spanair is allegedly a spanish operator
thats profound :}

[international hog driver]

We heard a wif of this a little while back about the same time as the TEAL 320 thing happened. It has a bit more to do with QF QCC playing games and shafting (sorry lowering their cost base liabilities) and getting out of all 717 ops in one go. Maybe it has been spured by the Jungle Jet announcement.

Spanair Link have got four 717’s (l/n 59-61 & 66) and Big brother Spanair have another 30 odd MD-80/87 and are majority owned by the SAS group.

Two were leased out to Germanwings for a while and LH were relatively happy with performance however they were not happy with the weight and cost in comparison to other top end RJ’s emerging at the time.

If it happens they would probably make sense as Spanair Link have a lower cost base to mainline…… now where have we heard that before………..

[The Pirate]

I believe that Spanair/Link wanted (just) the 6 in BNE but Qantas and the lessor d1cked about so much with the deal it all fell through. :hmm:

But why are they still there ........ why hasnt the lessor taken them back?

The 717 is a great aircraft, I hope they do not leave our shores.

[El Kabong]

BLOGGSY.....I dont believe it "The 717 is equal to or better than the 146", I think that I shall faint. The sun will now rise in the West and set in the East.

[Capn Bloggs]

Well Kabong, I must admit I was a bit surprised myself. But given the size of the hair dryers hanging on the back of the 717... If I knew you, I'd show you the charts to prove it, but since I don't I won't! :}

[cunninglinguist]

............it's a womens perogative to change her/his mind :} :eek: :ugh: :hmm: :E

[El Kabong]

Ah but you do Bloggsy, you do

[B772]

Obviously Ansett & Taa-Taas had it wrong when they ordered the 727 & DC9 all those years ago. YSCB, YAYE, YBAS, etc. have historically had troubles during the summer months.
Could a 738 pilot advise if the 738 can take off at MBRW at all ports, all through the year?

I am not a B738 pilot but you you can forget about a MBRW take off from the W.A country ports. I understand QF rarely get a MBRW take off from PER with the B738.


BTW. When the domestics ordered the B727-100 in the early 60's and DC9-30 in the early 70's the alternatives were the Caravelle/Trident and the BAC-111

[cunninglinguist]

Not often a 73 needs to take off with 20 odd ton of fuel domestically though

[ditzyboy]

Bags left behind on today's 73H flight BME-PER.

[The Pirate]

Yeah; it was 43 C in Broome today!
:ooh:

[Capn Bloggs]

Bags left behind on today's 73H flight BME-PER.
Yeh that wouldn't have happened to a QLink flight in the 717; the crew would have just taken the pax and bags via PHE, KTA, ZNE or PBO.

43° in BME?? Gross! And that's without Daylight Saving! :yuk:

[The Pirate]

Yes imagine what that extra hour of daylight would lift the temp to?:hmm:

[The Pirate]

Remember folks a DC9 used to fly Darwin-Port Hedland-Perth and back and that was before the strip at Port Hedland was lengthened! But it was at night ......

[cunninglinguist]

.........you needed to replace those curtains anyway Bloggs, and you did'nt have cows the last I heard, so whats the problem :rolleyes:

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

.......don't think njs will get too many more 717 drivers after they read the latest company horizons.here is a small sample the 717 and 146 drivers and new staff can expect...............

B717 pilots now & future:

• a 5 year AWA for Pilots with a Net 2% pa (ie 10% over 5 years) cost outcome measured against the current AWA.
• 50% training cost refunded as planned for the original B717 crews.
• the requirement for new or upgrading NJAS B717 crews to fund 50% of endorsement/training costs through salary sacrifice over 3 years (not repaid but not required to be paid up front to avoid individuals needing cash up front).
• all new positions for an increased B717 fleet requiring employees to be on a new AWA incorporating the provisions noted above.
• new staff being offered an AWA wage at 80% yr1, 85% yr2, 90% yr3, 95% yr4, 100% yr5 (compared to salary in the new AWA)
• new staff wage growth over 5 years will be linked to productivity.
• new staff 717 crews fund 50% of endorsement /training through salary sacrifice over 3 years (not repaid but not required to be paid up front to avoid individuals needing cash up front).
• bond to apply to voluntary training to the value of the total cost.
• eligibility for new AWA B717 staff to have access to Qantas worldwide network travel discounts after 12 months or service subject to finalisation.


BAe 146 pilots now & future:

• a 3 or 5 year AWA with a Net 2% cost pa outcome (ie 6% over 3 years) measured against current AWA remuneration.
• the requirement for new or upgrading NJRS BAe146 crews to fund 50% of endorsement/training costs through salary sacrifice over 3 years (not repaid but not required to be paid up front to avoid individuals needing cash up front).
• new pilots fund 50% of endorsement /training through salary sacrifice over 3 years (not repaid but not required to be paid up front to avoid individuals needing cash up front).
• new BAe 146 pilots being offered an AWA wage at 80% yr1, 82.5% yr2, 85% yr3, 87.5% yr4, 90% yr5 (compared to new AWA structure)
• wage growth over 5 years to 90% will be linked to productivity (flight hours pa).
• bond to apply to all voluntary training to the value of the total cost of the training & development investment.



............that's the bad news, good news is overseas airlines are preparing to up the T&Cs because of an acute shortage of pilots.is geoff dixon running njs too?

[cunninglinguist]

sorry to be a pessamist................" 2 % pay rise over 5 years "
Read: " 1.5-2% pay cut " over the next 5 years.

I did hear the ID90 carrot dangled, that means you can get same price as Red E deals with the proviso you book at least 7 days in advance and there is a spare seat that nobody else in the QF group wants....................nice one PN :rolleyes:

Where are ya Pete, surley you can put a spin on this to make Jet* look bad :}