VirginBlue Pay/Conditions

[top operator]

Just after a bit of info about DJ

What are the rosters like at the moment, how many overnighters? DOes this change much with different bases?

Is there a typical day? or how much would you normally fly (sectors) in a TOD

The pay for an FO/Capt? chance of command in 10? years? Does the pay go up much each year?

Any news on basing or pay with the E jets?

Cheers

[sprucegoose]

Rosters are crap. 8-12 overnights a month. 8 average in MEL, 12 average in BNE. Typical day is 10+ hours duty for 5-7 hours flying.

Get this. EMB 190 skipper starts on $112,000.....IF it gets voted in. You might get a commandwithin 10 years.

[The Bullwinkle]

Does the pay go up much each year?

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[sprucegoose]

3% or CPI up to a max of 5% whichever is greater. If it gets voted in.

[coitus interuptus]

Sprucegoose. I sincerely hope there are not too many stupid enough to vote for such a disgusting document. An absolute joke of the highest order. I think it is dead and buried already.

[Metro man]

Proposed
Virgin Blue Pilots Agreement
2007
Subject to Pilot Vote
December 2006
Virgin Blue Pilots Agreement 2007


Parties
The parties to this Agreement are Virgin Blue and the Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP).
This Agreement is binding on:
(a) Virgin Blue;
(b) The AFAP; and
(c) Pilots employed by Virgin Blue who fly Boeing 737 or Embraer aircraft in Virgin Blue’s Australian domestic operations.


Agreement Objectives
The introduction of this Agreement between Virgin Blue, the AFAP and Virgin Blue pilots represents a new basis for domestic aircraft operations within Australia.
It is recognised by the parties that benefits projected for Virgin Blue and its pilots will depend on ongoing consultation, cooperation and a recognition that all circumstances and eventualities may not have been anticipated when developing this Agreement.
To this end, the following reflects the objectives of the parties and the agreed process for managing the Agreement in an ongoing sense:
(a) Improved management of fatigue with the establishment of a Fatigue Risk Management System (FRMS);
(b) Increase in days free of duty per 28 day roster cycle. An average of 14 days free of duty per 28 day roster cycle (over any 12 week period) across the total pilot complement;
(c) An average of 74 hours flight time per 28 day roster cycle (over any 12 week period) across the total pilot complement;
(d) Increased pilot productivity on a day to day basis (pilot productivity shall be measured in terms of flying time not duty time);
(e) Increased ability to recover from disruptions;
(f) Reduced downtime at airports;
(g) Minimise positioning;
(h) Introduction of the Preferential Bidding System (PBS) for improved lifestyle;
(i) Reduced standby coverage (aim to achieve less than 2%);
(j) Building ways to improve communication and facilitate change in a volatile and competitive environment;
(k) Recognising that economic sustainability creates and maintains employment for pilots;
(l) Creating career progression opportunities for all pilots;
(m) Recognising a relationship between remuneration and productivity gains; and
(n) Minimal variation in outcomes between bases.


Annual Salaries for Pilots
2.1.2.1 Annual salaries for captains covered by this Agreement will be as follows during the term of this Agreement.
737 Captain
July 2006 Inc. 3% in July 05 and 06 $141,184
July 2007 3% $145,420
July 2008 3% $149,782
July 2009 3% $154,276
July 2010 3% or > CPI (Max 5%) $158,904
July 2011 3% or > CPI (Max 5%) $163,671

Embraer Captain
July 2007 N/A $112,000
July 2008 3% $115,360
July 2009 3% $118,821
July 2010 3% or >CPI (Max 5%) $122,385
July 2011 3% or >CPI (Max 5%) $126,057

First Officers will be paid the appropriate percentage of a Captain’s annual salary as follows and in accordance with the effective dates of increase given to Captains:
(a) Level 1 - 55%
(b) Level 2 - 60%
(c) Level 3 - 65%

The criteria established for the above levels shall not be varied during the course of this Agreement without the agreement of the parties.
First Officer Salary Levels:
737 First Officer
July 2006
July 2007
July 2008
July 2009
July 2010
July 2011
Level 1 Annual Salary
$77,651 $79,981 $82,380 $84,851 $87,397 $90,019
Level 2 Annual Salary
$84,710 $87,252 $89,869 $92,565 $95,342 $98,203
Level 3 Annual Salary
$91,770 $94,523 $97,358 $100,279 $103,288 $106,387

Embraer First Officer
July 2007
July 2008
July 2009
July 2010
July 2011
Level 1 Annual Salary
$61,600 $63,448 $65,351 $67,312 $69,331
Level 2 Annual Salary
$67,200 $69,216 $71,292 $73,431 $75,634
Level 3 Annual Salary
$72,800 $74,984 $77,234 $79,551 $81,937

The above annual salaries include an allowance recognising the current South West Pacific / New Zealand international operation (June 2006).

The parties recognise the volatile nature of the airline industry. Should the future financial viability of Virgin Blue be a concern to the parties during the course of this Agreement, the parties agree to discuss the most effective means of ensuring Virgin Blue remains viable. This clause is only to be used as a last resort and with the specific purpose of ensuring the continued viability of Virgin Blue and the continuing employment of pilots.

The level of a First Officer will be based upon a series of parameters including total hours, hours on type, hours in two-pilot operations, qualifications and experience in high capacity operations. A First Officer will progress through the levels when the specified criteria are attained. Virgin Blue shall publish the required criteria.

Annual salaries include an amount for all public holidays, loadings, shift penalties and allowances unless specifically referred to in this Agreement.

Salary Allowances - Check Pilots, Training Pilots and Ground Instructors

Pilots performing training pilot functions will be paid in addition to annual salary a 10% loading on annual salary whilst performing such duties. Such pilots will be appointed for a minimum of six months. A Training Captain shall be given a minimum of 28 days written notice prior to termination of Training Captain duties. Any subsequent reappointment shall be for a minimum of a roster period and at the discretion of Manager Flight Standards.

Where a pilot is performing both check and training pilot functions that pilot will be paid in addition to annual salary a 16% loading on annual salary whilst performing such duties. Check Captains will be appointed for a minimum of two years. Check Captains shall be given a minimum of 3 months written notice prior to termination of their check captain duties. Three (3) month notice does not apply where check captain duties are terminated for disciplinary reasons.

All check captain duties will be fairly and equitably distributed between all Check Captains.

Check Captains shall be rostered personal flying sufficient to maintain proficiency.

Check Captains shall be able to bid for their rostered days off within the check pilot group prior to training being allocated. Check Captains shall then be able to bid in the PBS for their personal flying.

Pilots performing these duties will be notified in writing of the period for which the functions and additional allowances will apply. Otherwise the allowance will be paid during annual leave, sick or long service leave provided the pilot was engaged in such functions within 2 months of the leave being taken

Pay on a Day Free of Duty

Where a pilot agrees to and operates on a nominated day/designated day off/blank day, the pilot shall receive payment at the hourly rate specified in clause 2.3: Productivity Payment for every hour or pro rata hour flown, with a minimum of 5 hours pay per flight duty period or simulator/ground duty.

Any hours flown under this clause will not count towards the pilot’s productivity payment and no substitute day off shall apply.

Meals, Allowances and Accommodation
Flying over a Meal Period
A pilot on duty and operating an aircraft during the following meal periods will be provided with in-flight sustenance and beverages for:
Meal Time Period
Breakfast 0600 - 0800hrs
Lunch 1200 - 1400hrs
Dinner 1800 - 2000hrs

Late Night Supper Where a flight departs between 2300-0300hrs
All times are referenced to the local departure time.
During any flight duty period in excess of 3 hours operating pilots shall be provided with adequate sustenance.
Overnight Meal Allowance

The following allowances will be paid where the pilot overnights in the course of a pairing for:

Meal Time Period Allowance
breakfast 0600 - 0800hrs $21.30
lunch 1200 - 1400hrs $30.15
dinner 1800 - 2200hrs $42.25

In addition, an amount of $21.35 for incidental expenses will be paid for each overnight that occurs.


Endorsement on an Aircraft Type

The parties have discussed the possibility of initial endorsement training being conducted in house. Should that occur, the parties shall meet to determine specific related issues including but not limited to training salary and endorsement cost offsets.

Internal candidates who are selected to fly an aircraft type but do not yet have the relevant training or hold the relevant endorsement will be given the opportunity to obtain that training and endorsement on the following terms:
(a) Virgin Blue will pay all training and endorsement costs, which include allowances, accommodation and travel expenses (T&E Costs);
(b) The pilot who passes the training and endorsement requirements agrees to remain employed on the aircraft type for a minimum of 48 months from the date a pilot is cleared to line;
(c) The pilot who passes the training and endorsement requirements but who later resigns from Virgin Blue (other than for medical reasons or retirement) or who is dismissed by Virgin Blue for performance reasons agrees to repay the T&E Costs as follows:
100% of the T&E Costs if employment comes to an end within 1 year from the date the pilot is cleared unrestricted to line operations;
66% of the T&E Costs if employment comes to an end between 1 and 2 years from the date the pilot is cleared unrestricted to line operations;
33% of the T&E Costs if employment comes to an end between 2 and 3 years from the date the pilot is cleared unrestricted to line operations;
The T&E Costs can be recovered in part or in whole from any money owned to the pilot by Virgin Blue.

[whogivesa????]

The introduction of the E190 to Virgin Blue will stop growth within the current B737 domestic operation. The E190 gives Virgin a 100 seat jet (with all the mod cons the passengers want) that is capable of operating anywhere on the east coast (and a few points west and east) with 100 passengers at a lower cost than the current B737. Captains flying the E190 will be getting paid $34000 less per year than their B737 counterparts, but will be doing all the work. The E190 could/will be used on off peak flights between SYD-MEL, SYD-BNE, SYD-OOL, BNE-MEL and MEL-ADL. The aircraft will also replace the B737 on the SYD-CFS, SYD-MCY, SYD-HVB, BNE-NTL and most flights to Tassie.
The E190 will become Ansett version of the F28/146. Before its retirement the F28 operated to all the ‘leisure’ ports within the Ansett network. When the 146 replaced the F28 it was also deployed on the leisure ports but during the late 90’s it was deployed on off peak flights between SYD and BNE and at times MEL.
My guess is that in 3-5 years time the Virgin Blue’s domestic fleet will be made up of 25-30 B737’s and 20-30 E170/190’s.

[flamingmoe]

Guys,i'm with you,and 99.5% of the pilot body for that matter,we are being fed a lemon,but is it appropriate to post specific details of the proposal on a rumour forum before it is written in stone? This is a negotiation, and the details of todays document are purely for our perusal. HOPEFULLY it is a joke,but the line in the sand must now be drawn,and we need to stand up for what is right...but I don't agree with providing PPRUNE with a running account of the ****fight! .

Lets do our best to get it right,THEN release it here :ok:

[Merlins Magic]

Hotels are cr#p.

What cities are you doing overnights in and where do they put you up?

Is there any considerations on the negotiations table that includes better quality accommodation?

The proposal posted said nothing about lost of RDO. What is the penalty payment for this?

[Contract Con]

Gday,

"The above annual salaries include an allowance recognising the current South West Pacific / New Zealand international operation (June 2006)."

The allowance you get paid for the work that our underpaid counterparts actually do:confused:

Moe,
Why not let the wider Pilot community see what is being offered. The fight for a return to proper terms and conditions is a responsibility that is upon all of us...

Not a race to the bottom, as seems to be the present situation in Australasia:{

Remember, if it looks like ****e and smells like ****e, there is a damn good chance that it is ****e!

Cheers,

Con:ok:

Oh, and well done that Metro Man!

[otto the grot]

The 3% increase year over the first 3 years is the biggest insult here. The most recent CPI figures show it sitting at around the 3.9% mark. So by my reckoning, it’s actually a pay cut of at least 0.9%.

Please don’t sign this drivel.

[Capt Basil Brush]

What is offered is not good, no doubt about it. However Metro Man forgot to mention the $15500 retention payment for both types each year, plus overtime above 68.3hrs at $184/hr 737, and $146/hr EMB. The overtime rates and retention payments increase along with the base pays. The overtime rates are too low as well.

Its got Buckleys of getting through.

[International Trader]

Looks like "Mad Dog" or Wal had an old AFAP contract in the bottom their bag and pulled it out. Problem is it was dated 1989!!!!!!!!!!!
Pre August , that is!

[rescue 1]

I thought the 14 days off in 28 (182/annum) to be fantastic, compared to a 9 to 5er; who only gets 96/annum.

This is a positive step towards better lifestyle, and far exceeds that of Jet*. No mention of any Pacific/USA flying in the proposal?? That might be the catch?

[Grivation]

Yeah but 9-5'ers are home every night. With DJ when you're working you're on a 4 day / 3 overnight trip.

[Baxter Dewall]

It'll get up; no doubt about it!!

History will proove it. When it comes to the crunch we're all as weak as p1ss.

QF L/H :ok:


JET* :ok:



JET* I :ok:



QLINK :ok:




NJS B717 :ok:



And the list goes on. Of course it will get up.:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Aussie]

It'll get up; no doubt about it!!

History will proove it. When it comes to the crunch we're all as weak as p1ss.

QF L/H :ok:


JET* :ok:



JET* I :ok:



QLINK :ok:




NJS B717 :ok:



And the list goes on. Of course it will get up.:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:


Well Said mate, yeah i agree with you!

Aussie

[longjohn]

What is offered is not good, no doubt about it. However Metro Man forgot to mention the $15500 retention payment for both types each year, plus overtime above 68.3hrs at $184/hr 737, and $146/hr EMB. The overtime rates and retention payments increase along with the base pays. The overtime rates are too low as well.
Its got Buckleys of getting through.

CApt Basil. Could you please elaborate on this. Does this mean a pilot who averages 74hrs per 28 days will earn an additional $13,319p.a. (assuming no leave or leave pay averaging and 12.7 28 day periods per anum) plus $15,500 retention bonus? So by my calculations, working an average 14 days per 28 you will do 74 hours and get $174k p.a., is this correct?

For a thousand hours that would be an additional $24,288 per annum?

[t_cas]

Rescue 1
Tell me, how do you calculate 96 Days off for the average 9 to 5er. 52 weeks a year with a saturday & sunday in each equals at least 104 days. Add to that the RDO generally at least one per month equals 116 days off per year. Add to that the public holidays or long weekends and the fact that your average 9 to 5er is home every night, makes it a little difficult to compare. I am sure that if you were to look at the actual hours flight crew spend "away from home" directly attributable to work, you would be staggered!
Perhaps you are ill informed.:=

[FrankAlbert]

Moe, your suggesting VB drivers "stand up for what is right".
Now seriously, didn't they all pay for their endorsement / job? :confused:

Those that stand up for what is right need not apply. Management knows it.

[Capt Basil Brush]

longjohn, probably more like the 168K mark after you take leave.

You can still only do 900hrs/year, and I think the average 14 days off in 28 over the whole pilot body is a bit of a furphy, as it will be impossible to monitor it.

They have totally disregarded promised payrises that are in the current EBA for adopting the new work rules. I dont have time to list all the holes in the proposed agreement (there are many), maybe someone else who knows would like to?

[sprucegoose]

It would be easier and quicker to list what is RIGHT in the proposal. Here I'll do it for you;








There, do you want to see it again?

[Capt Basil Brush]

Spruce, you missed one thing that is RIGHT in the document, it is:











I cant believe you missed that one!!

[sprucegoose]

Jesus......I'm not a professor. :hmm:

[coitus interuptus]

The PROPOSAL by tweedleDUMB and tweedleDUMBER is extraordinarly bad. There is basically not a single thing that could be construed as positive in the entire thing. It really is about time people woke up to reality and voiced their concern through a very definitive NO vote. How you could possibly sign your life away to 5 years of that rubbish is inconceivable. Without doubt the most regressive, underhanded EBA proposal this country has ever seen. A disgrace!

[BankAngle50]

Ok this will no doubt get out, so ill spill the beans this time round. In a pre-poll sample 190 pilots voted on this document, on the VB equivalent of the Qrew room. The result to this insulting offer was 95% No.
Wonder what tweedleDUMB and tweedleDUMBER think now?:rolleyes:

[SHRAGS]

I am not a DJ driver but from what I can tell from the offer is that there are 2 massive improvements.


One is an overtime rate as opposed to just a salary. 68.3 stick per 28 days equates to 74.4 per calendar month. Anything above that is gravy so doing 77 hours a month is an EXTRA $5000 per year (not including 6 weeks leave) and thats not too hard. That is a bloody good pay rise! The way I read it this also goes up 3% as does the annual bonus (more than QF Shorthaul have been offered).


Second is an improved rostering system that guarantee's 10 days off per 28 days. I believe that there is an improved bidding program as part of it as well. These will significantly improve lifestyle as well.


It's more money if you do the hours and its a better lifestyle as well. Not bad.
I think that some might not be looking at it by comparison to your old salary system and haven't considered the overtime bit.


One thing I wouldn't do is sign up for 5 years though if that is an option. In 3 years I think pilots may be worth more as the market struggles for experienced crew and that could help get better than 3%.

Just my 2 cents.:E

[BIKKERDENNAH]

you think that virgin blue pay bad!!

Try this and dont factor tax into it!! because at the end of the day you are living at home in your home country not in the FRUGGN sand pit!!

CAPTS are paid 121 300 AUD per year. Overtime is based on 78 or 76 hrs or above depending if its 30 or 31day month!! at the measly rate of 140 aud an hour. So Virgin Blue (yes i know there is taxation ) still pays its CAPTS 25 to 30k per year more than EMIRATES pays its CAPTS AND 40 to 50 percent more on overtime rates!! and receiving overtime having worked ten hours less than EMIRATES pilots.

CAPTS are treated like packhorses at EMIRATES and are expected to in robot like fashion do a 40 hour 9day trip to OZ have a day and a half off to recover before heading north to EUROPE.We are THE ONE OF MOST productive pilot groups in the world.

So i realize that your EBA is not that great but at least you can sort of negotiate!!

OHH as a by thought 8 days off a month THATS IT!!

Again there is no official income TAX YET but hidden tax in DUBAI is horrendous .

At the end of the day EMIRATES pays its pilots significantly less than most major airlines around the world (GROSS) which is why this company WILL ALWAYS with the current pay and conditions make VAST profits on the backs of us all!!

[Metro Boy]

You had me worried Shrags. For a moment I thought you were Tweedledumb.

[coitus interuptus]

BIK... and SHRAGS. I don't think you have been given many of the facts. The pay rise is an aberation as they have a 7% diff between the ROSTERED hours and the ACTUAL hours flown. With the current pilot numbers and yearly flight hours across the company, no-one will get any overtime next year. NO-ONE!!!
So there is NO extra money!
That was red herring #1.

#2. They will give 10 days off in 28 which sounds great. But they are attached with all sorts of conditions, too numerous to go into here. So the lifestyle option is utter BS.

#3. Opportunity. There is NO international flying on the table. Only the Embraer. So Captains have NO opportunity at all while SOME of the F/O's can trade their life away for 4 years (with more conditions attached) and be bonded (in a company they have already spent years with) for the 4 year duration. Pathetic.

There are so many holes in this thing it is a joke. I like many others, smell a rat and don't trust these parasites as far as I could throw them. Watch this space I think!!

[sprucegoose]

SOME of the F/O's can trade their life away for 4 years (with more conditions attached) and be bonded (in a company they have already spent years with) for the 4 year duration.

And spent 30K just to get the job in the first place.

[DutchRoll]

Geesus Shrags, 10 days off in 28? Sounds too good to be true doesn't it?

Are they 10 days in your home port? Do they include "normal" hours off, ie, night or normal sleeping hours? Are there any weekends involved? Are any of them consecutive days off? For christ's sake, don't be blinded by what seems a "reasonable" offer which then precludes you from having any semblance of a "normal" life!

[ACMS]

BIKKERDENNAH.....CAPTS are paid 121 300 AUD per year.
At the end of the day EMIRATES pays its pilots significantly less than most major airlines around the world (GROSS)
I know you guys are screwed but it's not that low. A year 7 capt friend of mine gets just a little bit less than me after Tax. He gets $13,400 AUD month or $160,800 year. So don't cry too poor mate.
He pays for nothing apart from food and phone calls. We all have to pay rates, electricity, gas, home insurance, damn expensive petrol for the car, really expensive child education......... etc etc etc.
However I agree that you do seem to work pretty damn hard in EK.

[ladbroke]

I wish people would stop banging on about the 10 days off a roster as if that were a benefit. If we as a pilot group could count - it equates to 2 extra days a year. Since we will be signing away the home by 2200 before a day off and operating under a home by 2330 rule could someone please explain the benefits.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

ACMS

A first year captain on at Emirates is on 28000 dhs a month at an exchange rate of 2.77 to the AUD works out to be 121300AUD FACT.

A seventh year skipper cannot possibly be on 165000AUD basic!! UNLESS he is a trainer or he has included overtime into that SUM.

A 7th year skipper at this airline will be on 21 percent MORE than a first year skipper (3 PERC per year increment) which means his basic salary to fly wide body aircaraft for a major around the world with 8 days off a month IS 146800AUD FACT i DO NOT know where 168K came from that is CRAP!!:sad:

Anyway the price you pay to live in a great first rate country is TAX and your own mortgage!

So the fact still remains that we must be one of the cheapest pilots in international operations:D in the world at present.!! FACT:ugh:

[Contract Con]

"So the fact still remains that we must be one of the cheapest pilots in international operations in the world at present.!! FACT"

Not by a long shot BIKK:{

Our bro's in InZid will beat you to that claim to fame!

Con:ok:

[Keg]

ACMS

A first year captain on at Emirates is on 28000 dhs a month at an exchange rate of 2.77 to the AUD works out to be 121300AUD FACT.

Correct, you are. If the tax rates were what they were in Australia then you wouldn't have any crew at all! :E Good luck to EK though. I'm sure that GD would love to be able to pay QF drivers about half as much and not have to bother with paying tax on our behalf. Actually, I'd be happy to be on about half as much and not have to bother with tax too! :rolleyes:

Lets have a look at some of the other issues add ons.

You get housing supplied. FACT.

You get utilities supplied. FACT.

You get medical supplied. FACT.

All these should be added to your total package of remuneration if we're talking about the 'expense' of crew. Therefore you're not as cheap as you reckon you are. :E

[ACMS]

A 7th year skipper at this airline will be on 21 percent MORE than a first year skipper (3 PERC per year increment) which means his basic salary to fly wide body aircaraft for a major around the world with 8 days off a month IS 146800AUD FACT i DO NOT know where 168K came from that is CRAP!!
I said $160,800


A very good friend of mine is on 7 or 8 year Captain pay, we compared money after tax. He was only just a bit behind my CX B scale after Tax pay. He may have included overtime? I don't know.
However he gets most other things for free.
I was surprised to hear how much he got paid, but that is what he told me. Perhaps he was fibbing?
In my humble opinion they don't pay you guys enough to live in the sand pit.

[ernestkgann]

Sorry to keep up with the derail of this thread, but some of your assertions are wrong Keg old mate. Accomm is paid for in EK but it counts for nought unless you are saving those monies that would be used for housing, or taking the allowance to pay off a home in Dubai.
Medical isn't free we pay, not as much as private insurance at home but paid never-the-less.
We also get provident contributions from the company not taken into account by the initial poster but all in all the wage is poor by most standards.
Most of my mates in the Q who are 76' FOs or 74 SOs with some seniority appear to earn more than me b4 tax (as an ek ca).

[Keg]

Fair enough. No one is disputing that your 'up front' rate doesn't look so flash. I'm just trying to point out that there is a lot more to the 'up front' rate than meets the eye and that FACTs aren't always what they seem. I may earn a fair bit more than $120K but I'd bet a considerable amount of it that 'nett' for a QF driver would be less than the 'nett' of an EK driver on an equivalent type.

[ernestkgann]

You may be right but without actually seeing a QF payslip it's hard to compare because of the apples and oranges factor. When a QF guy says he earns $180 000 a year as an A330 FO I'm not sure if it includes his super (which is far better than ours) or just what appears on his group certificate for the year. In any case we don't have fleet pay and we are comparing QF FOs with EK CAs at this stage. We haven't even got to QF CAs.
Don't think that there aren't any taxes in the miraculous middle east either. They are many and varied.
I would agree that the wage cost to the company may be similar between both companies because they pay for housing, utilities, schooling and some other bits and bobs. Unfortunately this doesn't help your average sand dweller because it doesn't end up in his bank account.

[Dropt McGutz]

$180,000 for a QF A330 FO. I'm not sure where you got the figures for that but it's a darn site more than I earned.

[DutchRoll]

If we're going to start comparing group certificates and gross incomes, we really should be looking carefully at the "total tax withheld" column, which for a QF pilot pretty much leaves you gasping for breath for a few minutes after you open the envelope.

And that's just the income tax. It doesn't include all the wonderful indirect taxes, fees, and levies that the Government cleverly hides away.

[Agent Mulder]

This is really a mine is bigger than yours exercise isn't it!

Why don't we let the managers argue over who earns more or has a higher "unit cost" (always wanted to be a "unit") and get on with the brotherhood of fellow professionals.

If you haven't already, I suggest you all get hold of a copy of Earnest Gann's "Band of Brothers" and see what fellow professionals used to do for each other.

We have fallen a long way and the message behind this thread just goes to further drive that home.

How about some professional courtesy.:ugh: :rolleyes:

[ACMS]

Agent Mulder
This is really a mine is bigger than yours exercise isn't it!
actually I think this is more "mine is smaller than yours" argument :{


Lets not make it a race to the bottom. ( unless you're talking about a bar in Patpong )

[Keg]

This is really a mine is bigger than yours exercise isn't it!


No this is discussing the vagaries of the respective awards and terms that we all fly under. If you have perceived any desire in my posts to 'one up' the other contributors then I'll have to go back and edit a bit. It was more about ensuring a consistent line of discussion and gathering some info.

[airbusa330]

Can someone explain what level 1,2,3 pay levels mean for an FO and how the whole thing works out to?
If one is already experienced on type what pay would they start on?What would be an average take home pay?

[Yusef Danet]

Level 1 = 55% of said fleet's capt pay
level 2 = 60 % of said fleet's capt pay
level 3 = 65% of said fleet's capt pay

you start on whatever level you are offered by flt ops when you join. This is related to your previous experience on VB operated types and also to your ability to negotiate a good rate for yourself in a sellers' market.

[SilverSleuth]

Actually thats not quite correct. Everyone starts on level one no matter what your experience as it is now time on company aircraft.

[mention1]

I heard a rumour yesterday that within 2 weeks an offer will be made to pilots successful in interview, to salary sacrifice the endorsement cost. Anyone? :suspect:

[airbusa330]

Can someone be kind enough to answer a few questions please:
What is an average take home pay per month?
If already experienced on type,what does the induction training consist of other than CRM D&G,ie any sim sessions,how may sectors line training etc?Lastly,reference checks,are they carried out prior to an offer?
Thanks

[bustard]

...and while we're at it there isn't any mention of the prospective 777 salaries. Has anything been mooted in this area as yet?

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

silversleuth

Check your PM's

Blue Foot

[Warped Wings]

Virgin Blue's E190 are the LR model with a MTOW of 50.3 tonnes.

Can I ask what this has to do with VB pay/conditions?

WW

[captncannot]

can someone guesstimate what is the time to command on the B737 for guys joining now? I'm current on type already and not interested in the Embraer.

What is the take home pay for each of the 3 bases on offer?

Are the overnights five star, mum n dad best westerns or something in between?

Do the crew hotels have free broadband in the room for example?


How many overnights per month average for each of the different bases?

Thanks very much for any inside info anyone can offer.

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

500 hours on a jet over 50 tons get you a payrise doesn't it?

That's what it has to do with T&C's

Blue Foot