BIRMINGHAM - 3 [Archive]

OltonPete

31st Oct 2006, 21:13

Previous thread here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234732

Big X

At the moment BHX have 5 based Baby aircraft, as it was in the
summer and todays routes will make six at 25/3/07.

There are no new routes at BHX at this moment until 25/3/07. I know
that Baby indicated that one extra aircraft would be basedin January
and two in Summer 2007 but the January flights are yet to be
announced (hopefully this will change soon but it is getting late).

Whether one aircraft is sitting spare at BHX now I do not know
but there is definitely no extra flights that have been publically
released until March 2007. Geneva restarts in December but this is
accommodated by re-arranging the existing flights and better
aircraft utilisation.

Pete

Big X

1st Nov 2006, 07:00

Pete,

The 2 DTV aircraft have definately been allocated to BHX, they have not arrived yet as there will now be 2 aircraft in for heavy maintenance for the next few months and they are being used to cover this.
But they will arrive next year .

Make no mistake DTV was sacrificed for BHX

OltonPete

1st Nov 2006, 17:53

Big X

Was the heavy maintenance planned rather than forced?

Quite a luxury for such a small loco to have two units out at the same time but great if they can afford do it?

Also do you know which aircraft or is a case of two this month followed
by two more next month etc etc.

Flying with Baby in December & February.

Pete

fredtheanorak

3rd Nov 2006, 11:17

What's the view out there on the rock of the FlyBe BAcon deal. :confused: Presumably now EuroManx will be getting a little nervous :( about competing with acommited regional operator with modern aircraft :ok: in MAN,LPL and BHD rather than whatever fleet they happen to be operating today. Presume FLYBE'll be buying Roaldsway Hanger for maint so will we see lots more IOM based routes? Surely they won't push VLM out and go back into LCY again?:sad: Don't think I'd want to be in EuroManx shoes in march when Q400's :D:D start to appear :{

banotok

3rd Nov 2006, 15:38

So BA's betrayal of the British regions is now complete. After the insult of BA Connect a complete withdrawal for every link our supposed "National" airline gave to any British city, just dropped by the BA name. And all for the simple reason that BA couldn't be bothered to plan and market effectively for anywhere except LHR. The problems BA has caused it staff at Gatwick with its stop/start planning was bad enough but at least London still had LHR if theyhad pulled the plug on LGW.

Imagine Lufthansa pulling the plug on Munich, Iberia on Barcelona and so on. And its not like the UK's major cities are minor players in the population stakes. Remember the much trumpeted fact some years ago that 28 million people live within 2 hours of Birmingham (BHX management - if there are any - please take note).

For many years I have said that BA should be renamed London Airways, well now they truly are in all but name. Seriously; legislation should be introduced to force them to withdraw the word British from their company title because anything less like a national company simply doesn't exist.

My sympathies to the staff who have seen their hard work and loyalty unceremoniously dumped.

BA you are a disgrace.

OltonPete

3rd Nov 2006, 16:58

banotak

I share your frustration but the fact there was no reaction to the LCC's in the regions other than removing the 319's. That was awful but if GO had come to BHX & MAN then perhaps things would have
been sorted out earlier.

This announcement could even be good if flybe deliver and I know that is a big if.

With shareholders to please, London Airways were always going to be well..London Airways.

Yes it would be lovely it the British could be removed :O

I think it has to be onward and upward for BHX and I hope the fine BA staff in the regions transfer and flybe treat them well.

It is certainly interesting times at BHX and MAN.

I think you are right about Lufthansa at Munich but a bit late
with Barcelona - ala clickair. Also it could be worse, it could be
like France!

Pete

bmibaby.com

3rd Nov 2006, 18:38

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding the whole situation, but to me this purchase of BA Connect by flybe, as I mentioned in the crew thread in Rumours & News, has the potential to be more successful for both companies, consumers & staff than had the two companies each gone their separate ways. This newly merged company is focused on regional flying, will be operating an environmentally efficient fleet of modern aircraft, has a sound mixture of business & leisure destinations throughout Western Europe with more destinations set to be announced and a popular brand standing for "fly british european." BA will be maintaining a 15% shareholding in the company, so despite not being BA-branded, they will be able to maintain some influence in the regions, but leaving the actual business decisions to a group of professionals who actually know how to run a low-cost airline. bmibaby adding more destinations means that there will still be competition on many routes where there wouldn't have been room for three, particularly domestic sectors which must also compete with Virgin Trains, and today's proposed new facilities at Birmingham New Street station. Interestingly, flybe are proposing BHX-based expansion to Eastern Europe, and the airline was already known to be looking at replicating their success of flights to French regions in Spain, possibly including the Canary Islands.

I hope flybe will remain in T2, and by all intentions it sounds as if they will as they have indicated they want to take over BA's lounges in the regions and also the airport will be keen to utilise the newly renovated check in area well. T2 offers exactly what business passengers want, quick check-in & security facilities, relatively little walking distance to the gate and not being bombarded with the plethora of shops which are more suited to longhaul and leisure passengers. It will be interesting, given flybe's purchase of BACON does not include ground handling, to see the effect this will have on Swissport who have aggressively expanded to take on this contract, or British Airways Regional Handling who may start wearing flybe outfits.

OltonPete

3rd Nov 2006, 19:04

bmibaby.com

I think that for the fare paying BHX passenger and for the airport itself
it is good alternative to BA Connect just dying. Obviously we need to
wait for the route announcements before singing from the roof- tops.

I mainly use Baby and BA (all leisure flying) but have my first flybe
flight coming soon and although their taxes annoy me I feel that
flybe will be fine.

I hope the Connect staff give it a shot as well, always found BA BHX crews great and will be a great addition to flybe (I have seen one or
two less flattering trip reports re flybe).

As for T2, I suppose it needs one large operator and flybe or baby
are the most obvious unless BHX shifts all full service carriers. This would
mean Servisair moving some ops over as well and I am not too sure about the widebody stands and enough terminal seating (non-starter really).
Perhaps flybe is the best choice for T2?

Pete

bmibaby.com

3rd Nov 2006, 19:19

I haven't heard anything about bmibaby wanting to move over to T2, I would think that the airport would be keen to keep low-cost airlines in T1 in order to try to maintain some of the costs lost by landing charges back through retail fees, I believe this is the way airport operators work. flybe often touts the benefits of regional airports (small walks from car park to aircraft, small security queues, less shopping mall more transport interchange) which T2 seems to fit perfectly. Also the average size of their aircraft (78-seat Q400s and 118-seat EMB-195s) seem to fit T2 better than baby's 148-seat B737-300s.

tangocharlie

3rd Nov 2006, 19:32

Good points by all recently. Just like to say though, that BIA would willingly take any operators into T2! Keeping LCC's in T1 is not part of their 'make-up'. BIA needs airlines (and retail outlets) badly in T2. Flybe/Baby, gate lounges, departure lounge, retail outlets - are these sufficient for them to start?

RealFish

3rd Nov 2006, 19:59

Oh hum !

So Leo Hairy Camel was right all along - BA would be gone from BHX within 3 years. Wouldn't be surprised to hear him pipe up with an, 'I told you so!'

BA couldn't cope with LOCOs and LOCI (Lack Of Commitment and Imagination). It's a shame. The staff @ BACX and Maersk were brilliant -but the product was tired and jaded.

Just took a look at Google Earth to remind me of what T2 (Eurohub) was like in its pomp. Things felt very different then.

One can only hope.

Giddy

3rd Nov 2006, 22:15

I think today's announcement is excellent news for BHX - because the alternative would have been BACON pulling out in 2007 then BHX being in a very vulnerable position negotiating to try and cover the routes and pax.

It's been 'plane' to everyone (except perhaps the board and some of the management at BHX:ugh: ) that BA hasn't given two hoots about the second city for some years now. It's only the greed of the shareholders that kept BHX hanging on to BACON instead of getting in willing carriers such as EZY who would pay less per pax but actually add GROWTH. The obsession with BA has held BHX back for some years now; well the management have now had their precious toy taken from them.

BHX has cut a few jobs in recent weeks; apparently to cut some costs. Perhaps they'll start being a little more flexible with charges to airlines that are actually interested in B'ham.

jongeman

4th Nov 2006, 00:30

Giddy

BA hasn't really given two hoots for 20 years about either second city, whether it be Birmingham or Manchester!:)

Let's just hope that flybe at BHX and MAN can reverse the BA-dictated decline and start to restore proper links from our two cities, and claw back some passengers that they've forced to retreat into LPL and EMA.

Ametyst

4th Nov 2006, 07:19

Having seen Fly Be in operation I think they are more likely to send more passengers to LPL and EMA, at the expense of MAN and BHX.

Can just imagine the passenger response if Fly Be replace Embraer 145s with Dash 8s on routes such as Dusseldorf, Frankfurt or Paris.

Centre cities

4th Nov 2006, 07:28

Oh well at least it is good for the BHX publicity and media relations department.

It has solved one of their big headaches as the excuse box was empty for the poor passenger figures.

May 2007 ditto May 2008.

The drop in passengers figures this month is due to the rationalisation of the BAcon and flybe operations, however there was strong groth in the following areas...............

Centre cities

OltonPete

4th Nov 2006, 07:50

Ametyst

I certainly hope that by summer 2007 BHX will have at least 4 BE "Jets", as you say Frankfurt (if kept, which I am sure they will), Milan and to a lesser extent Paris probably need the 195 or at least 143.

Dusseldorf I fear will be a Dash 8 and if they are going to be tight on
aircraft I would not be surprised to see frequency reductions.

I wonder if there will be any reaction from Lufthansa, rich pickings one
thinks for the business end of the plane or have these people already
moved when BACON began?

Pete

10 DME ARC

4th Nov 2006, 09:05

James
I will not post the link as I know its been removed once from the flybe/BA Connect thread. But if you go to the Flybe web site click news then regional press releases you will find another link to NCL.
:)

cesare

4th Nov 2006, 19:37

yeah !... and there is Ryanair on the market now ! :D

Ryanair have signed a deal with TFN airport.
In the next 18 month will be open five new route to Canaries.

Charlie Roy

4th Nov 2006, 20:05

Well Easyjet were considering using one of their new Madrid aircraft to introduce MAD - ACE (Lanzarote), so the idea of flying to the Canary Islands isn't completely foreign to them.

Cesare, about Ryanair introducing 5 destinations from TFN, does that mean DUB, GRO and 3 others? I would say that one will definitely be MAD. They were considering it already (i.e. applied for slots).
Looks like FUE is going to be a bigger winner also in this deal as Ryanair seem to be forming the habit of flying from bases on a 1-3-5-7 frequency to TFN and -2-4-6- to FUE ;)

FougaMagister

4th Nov 2006, 23:12

Have just read in a past issue of "Airports" that BHX has the distinction of being the world's fourth most expensive airport as far as landing fees are concerned.

No. 1 Toronto
No. 2 Kansai
No. 3 Narita
No. 4.... Brum!

Find the odd one out!

At least Kansai and Narita have world-class facilities (plus Kansai was built on an artificial island etc.). Toronto is one of Canada's major gateways. But Brum? That, in a nutshell, is the problem with BIA (mis)management: they live on another planet! :ugh: Now the ever-decreasing PAX figures make complete sense!

Local rumour has it that heads will roll in the marketing dept (if one can call it that). About bl***y time too!

Rant over (for tonight)!

Cheers :cool:

Fried_Chicken

4th Nov 2006, 23:39

with the FlyBE/BACON merger, I wonder if Sunair will continue flying the Billund - Birmingham route which is currently code-shared with BA? (could be the only chance of seeing an aircraft in BA colours at BHX!)

Also, I presume Eastern, SN Brussels (or whatever they're going to be called) & Sunair (if they stay) will have to find new handling agents as they're currently handled by BA.

Also, will FlyBE take over the hangar currently leased by BACON or will it now go empty & the airport will use it to store ground equipment in it.

Fried Chicken

Tom the Tenor

5th Nov 2006, 00:09

Just a small point if I may. The Birmingham 2 thread had reappeared briefly a little earlier and there was mention of increased Cork-Birmingham Aer Lingus flights next year. As much as it would be very welcome it looks like EI are to stay at 4 weekly on ORK-BHX for next summer. A pity as daily would do just fine. Beats me why EI want to put 5 a week on the restored ORK-MAN and leave BHX at 4 when Birmingham has a history almost always doing better than MAN from/to Cork. Ah, well, they know better at EI and as for the wisdom of having no Friday flight from Cork to Manchester my head is just spinning! :rolleyes:

OltonPete

5th Nov 2006, 07:45

Does this mean the increase on the Cork is a comparison between summer 2006 and summer 07 and ignoring the fact that it is already 4 a week this winter?

Four a week is definitely an increase on summer 06 but certainly not on winter 06. This is the kind of press release I am more used to seeing from FR & BE, technically correct in one sense but you need to read the small print!!!!

I would have thought that EI could have gone daily if not 5 a week.

Pete

Ps. Have I had a hard night but is there Newcastle posts included in this thread? I'm off for another sleep

Tom the Tenor

5th Nov 2006, 09:36

Dont think EI were spinning it about more ORK-BHX next summer, it was just mentioned here on Pprune FM! Anyway, as for now it is four weekly ex Cork to BHX next summer as per this season's winter schedule. Yes, daily would be obvious to do but there you go and it is all about utilisation of scarce resources. Only for the 5th Airbus, eh!?

fredtheanorak

5th Nov 2006, 10:19

I hear from the Rock that FlyBe will be stepping up to a double daily out of BHD in March:O into IOM (wonder if they'll resusitate the old flight numbers) then onto BHX. This'll cause some grief for EuroManx :{ who operates a badley timed 2x dayly servis presentley and will also impact on Eastern's 3x daily into BHX. But with Dash8 replacing 30 seaters should push prices down and capacity up:D .

GOLF-INDIA BRAVO

5th Nov 2006, 10:25

Tom the Tenor

Yes I agree about no Friday ORK-MAN always used to be one of the busiest
days when I was in travel with expats going home for weekend

G-I-B

RealFish

5th Nov 2006, 10:56

Oh well at least it is good for the BHX publicity and media relations department.
It has solved one of their big headaches as the excuse box was empty for the poor passenger figures.
May 2007 ditto May 2008.
The drop in passengers figures this month is due to the rationalisation of the BAcon and flybe operations, however there was strong groth in the following areas...............

........EMA, LPL, CVT, LTN !!! :hmm:

Giddy

6th Nov 2006, 23:45

Local rumour has it that heads will roll in the marketing dept (if one can call it that). About bl***y time too!

Rant over (for tonight)!

Cheers :cool:

That would not surprise me, but it would be completely unjustified. The marketing people don't set the fees. As far as I know, they've been talking to quite a few airlines, EZY included, who could bring real growth to BHX, but, when numbers are talked, the BHX chief bean counters are intransigent and won't do a deal.:ugh: The shareholders (or some of them) seemed to think their BACON Cash Cow was going to last forever - despite blinding evidence to the contrary! As I said earlier, the BACON/Flybe tie-up will now force them to come into the real world. :ok:

MarkBHX

9th Nov 2006, 12:38

Does anybody know anything about the Italian invasion tomorrow??
Check out all of these:

08:30 NO 5530 Milan/Malpensa
08:45 FHE 6920 Naples
08:45 XLA 4305 Rome-Fiumicino
08:50 FHE 6934 Pisa
09:00 4R 8014 Turin
09:00 XLA 4277 Rome-Fiumicino
09:00 TOM 8093 Rome-Fiumicino
09:10 TOM 8191 Genoa

All depart again in the evening!

Anyone know anything about QR starting next year? Been reading about it all over the place but no announcement as yet!

Oh and btw, all those slating the Marketing department at BHX, you obviously don't know these people. They all try really hard to attract new airlines and routes, just look at the last few years: EK, AI, WW and ZB! And so passenger figures are going down at the moment, what can the Marketing team do if their hands are tied by the top brass and shareholders????:hmm:

banotok

9th Nov 2006, 17:26

Don't know about the Italian job! There doesn't seem to be anything too obvious at the NEC.

I agree with you (up to a point) about the Marketing dept, but if you are right then the top tier of management should be unceremoniously sacked for allowing the situation to develop as it has at BHX.

And whilst not wishing to be too negative about the airlines you mentioned it simply isn't enough in such a growth area with so few destinations served from BHX. And whilst airlines like other companies make decisions on a commercial basis why so many duplications?

The fact that the UK's second city has only one Bona Fide trans-atlantic air link is a disgrace, of methinks BHX's (mis)managment team. I just wonder how much they get paid for their ongoing failiures. :hmm:

OltonPete

9th Nov 2006, 17:47

Reported on a local forum as Italian Car Company charters.

Needed them last month by the look of it - another woeful performance apparently at 826k down 7.7%.

Pete

OltonPete

9th Nov 2006, 17:51

Summer 2007 timetable shows 5 flights a day in the week as per now
and summer 06. However when you try to book there are six a day
but all AR8's no 319's.

Tried all months and it was the same, which is suspicious as August usually sees only three a day.

Pete

vikkilou2k

9th Nov 2006, 18:05

well said!:ok:

OltonPete

9th Nov 2006, 18:33

From the outside it is difficult to know who to blame (Market or Bean)
but at present there is a lack of or too much choice with some routes
- 15 EdI's a day (okay soon to change) but no Rome, Stockholm etc etc.

However it is not all doom and gloom, still over 9 Million pax, 2 Dubai's
a day and yes Management did hang on to BA's coat-tails for far too long
but if the rumours are correct they were actually trying to do
something about it before the BA/BE announcement (not just Baby).

Add a few Eastern European, Italian flights, one more transatlantic and perhaps Qatar and I think matters would be a whole lot different.

Ideally Easy would be a good alternative (FR is never going to happen)
to add competition to BE & WW but that is just wishful thinking ;) .

Pete

MarkBHX

9th Nov 2006, 19:04

Just my opinion but,
I think that 2008 may be the best bet for any real improvement for BHX. By that time the BA/BE situation will be sorted out fully and there will be at least 1 more transatlantic operator (DL,NW,US,AA?) and then another Middle eastern operator (most likely QR). With all of the recent transatlantic expansion I was very surprised to see BHX not taken up by any of them, but are CO going double daily again next year? I know they lost a packet last time they did that!

It's going to be an interesting time though to see what routes BE keep of BA's and if anyone will take over any they drop. Could we see Click to BCN and MAD, AF doing LYS, more LH from FRA, DUS and new routes to TXL, HAM, STR or more HLX if not and AZ back to do MXP and FCO?? And what are WW going to do? More GLA and EDI i guess and perhaps increasing on their exciting routes like PMI, AGP, ALC!!!:ok:

Off Stand

9th Nov 2006, 20:46

Mark,

CO are going twice daily from next summer and actively trying to get a regular 762 in too. Highly unlikely they will get it, but it is a positive sign.

It is possible that AA will come back. It was quite lucrative cargo wise on the 767, if they think they can get a good passenger yield on it too, would be great.

I worked at BHX for nearly 6 years and as my home airport would dearly love it to expand and be great again.

jimworcs

9th Nov 2006, 21:03

Strong rumours that Baby will be doing CDG from January which would be great because BACON and AF are too high compared to Thomsonfly in CVT and Baby in EMA.

OltonPete

9th Nov 2006, 21:28

jimworcs

Might seem strange coming from me but good, although they are leaving
it a bit late unless it will be a 31/1/07 start.

There are no real gaps in with the current 5 based aircraft and I assume that this will one of the DTV aircraft. Hopefully at least one other route if not two could be announced at the same time, as they should be able to get 8 sectors in if Paris is twice daily.

Pete

Daza

9th Nov 2006, 22:05

CDG will be just another wasted opportunity and further route duplication. I hope we dont loose more destinations if Flybe consolidaye BACON routes.
Daza

FougaMagister

9th Nov 2006, 22:28

the Marketing department at BHX all try really hard to attract new airlines and routes, just look at the last few years: EK, AI, WW and ZB! And so passenger figures are going down at the moment, what can the Marketing team do if their hands are tied by the top brass and shareholders????:hmm:

In a nutshell: they can resign. That's what principled people do when asked to do a job without being provided with the means to do it. I stand by my comment: to try to attract new airlines without having the option of lowering costs such as landing fees is ludicrous. I guess it's OK with you to have the world's fourth highest landing fees turning potential business away and yet do nothing about it.

As for attracting "new" airlines over the past couple of years, let's see:

Emirates wanted to tap into the Midlands Asian community (as did Air India), so they were always going to open the route anyway.

Baby wanted to set up a major low-cost base at an airport where traditional LCCs (excluding FlyBe) were not represented (ignoring the thrice-daily Ryanair BHX-DUB)

ZB... a new carrier at BHX? Gimme a break! Once and for all, it's Monarch doing a scheduled service instead of an IT charter - using the same aircraft type. Yes, that means they will base more aircraft :ok: , but bear in mind that Monarch Scheduled started at Luton (as the Crown Service) then expanded to Manchester. Monarch was always going to set up new ZB routes out of airports they already flew IT charters from. The fact that they use a different 2-letter code for the ZB routes does NOT mean it's a new operator at BHX.

Cheers :cool:

MarkBHX

10th Nov 2006, 11:40

Those landing fees are based on a 747-400, hardly a regular visitor now and unlikely to be so any time soon, so I'd be tempted to ignore those figures.
Well EK, AI, WW and ZB have all expanded since they started operations, something I doubt they'd do if they were being priced out??
Anyway, lets hope for some exciting developments from BE, WW and others over the winter, whilst everything sorts itself out!
Oh and any news on any runway extension?

banotok

10th Nov 2006, 13:04

With the NEC, NIA, ICC in Birmingham, also being at the hub of the nations road AND rail networks and also with one of the best integrated "train to plane" facilities in the UK; why on earth would BHX need a runway extension (NOT!!!)

The reality of the situation is that the lack of a runway extension is the single most important factor holding back the economic regeneration of our region to take its place in the 21st century providing jobs and security as it did in the 19th and 20th centuries. The very nature of the Global Village insists on a fully functioning airport, imagine the seaports refusing to expand as needed, its unimaginable. The old industries may be gone or dying but there are new ones out there!

Apart from the fact that European and Wordwide air travel is an integral part of the lives of most people nowadays (yes BHX, management and owners, that includes the approx 5 million people who live in the Birmingham conurbation and its surrounds) and as everyone knows new airlines and routes bring jobs and prosperity.

The question should be: WHY hasn't it happened! Yet we are stuck with WHEN will it happen.

Still we are talking BHX management here, I doubt its on their agenda or that they even discuss it. :ugh:

Mind you I've just thought of something; maybe they think the runway extension HAS happened and they just can't understand why airlines are queueing up to come here. :hmm:

Call Established

10th Nov 2006, 13:08

Does BHX need more business to be a financially viable airport, what if the management and shareholders took the view its making money as it is and we don´t need to attract a huge amount of business and we will carry on as we are keeping shareholders happy..... big is not always best or profitable.

banotok

10th Nov 2006, 13:22

Too true for comfort.

Your point however makes a perfect example as to why such important matters should be outside the control of purely private companies. It may have worked with BAA at LHR but then anything would have there. If your point is the reason for underdevoplemnt in all area's at BHX then government (local and national) should intervene.

CVTDog

10th Nov 2006, 19:37

Sorry to ask a "newbie" question. But the talk of what can or cannot land at BHX is confusing me.

Could I please as the group what the limitations at BHX are - aircraft type wise ? Although I suppose the answer might be PAX and weight dependant.

Can 747-400ER land there (and take of with a normal PAX and fuel load) or a 777-200LR ?

I "think" the biggest aircraft I see there is the "Air India" 777 . .. . On a regular basis

Or do they choose not to operate them out of BHX due to commercial viability ?

GayFriendly

10th Nov 2006, 22:52

And so the latest passenger figures press excuse sheet has been revealed, passenger numbers down 7.7% in Oct due to the continuing effects of the latest security scare. Now would that be the situation back in August where other UK airports saw monthly pax growth dip to single or low double digit figures (for just a month or so, most are now back on track for a record 2006) or has there been another security alert affecting only the BHX catchment area that I am not aware of........

Truly this is BHXs annus horriblis and you know the worst thing about it - there seems to be no end to the misery. Babys much vaunted big expansion has so far amounted to well nothing but more route duplication (and can we expect CDG and PGF as the routes to complete their so called 'many new destinations' announcement back in Oct?). There aren't even any RUMOURS about new routes/operators, let alone hard evidence of route expansion (to NEW destinations). As for Flywho and Birmingham European, what a joke. All this while other most other UK airports, quite rightly, due to the foresight of their management, rack up new routes and offer the combination of airlines and destinations that passengers in their catchment area want - and USE. BHX's European network frankly is bland, boring and, give or take, little different to that of 10 years ago. Yes, size isn't everything and number of destinations served does not equate to a successful business operated in airport terms. However, failure to offer anything new and move forward to keep abreast of where passengers want to fly to does not bode well for the future. Why has BHX allowed airlines to totally saturate certain routes (GLA, EDI, ABZ etc) whilst not maintaining and developing links that befit the UKs second city eg to ARN, FCO, BUD, WAW??

Perhaps the BACON/Flybe deal may offer a way out of what seems to be terminal decline, there is mention on Flybes regional press release for BHX of new East European services. However, what airline Press say and airline Ops etc actually do are seemingly two very different things. Its a very long shot that BE (whether alone or combined with BACON) will offer the routes that BHX so desperately needs to stay competitive with other airports.

I am very sad to see the way BHX has ended up (don't get me started on the state of T1 or the farcical runway never will happen extension). It really could be so good - but I'm afraid I saw the fall coming a long time ago. I worked for BIA plc in Diamond House for a number of years, until 2004. LCCs were regarded by many as a passing fad and EMA, LPL and LTN as mere outsiders in the Airports League. Indeed, at the time of the FR 'landing fees situation' (when FR chose to relocate to NEMA), I clearly remember senior managers saying words to the effect of that'll never last, it won't work, even they'll be back................what a pity that those heads are still stuck in the sand, if only they got themselves out they would see perhaps that the ascendency of NEMA (and others) has only just begun....by the way anyone want to take bets on next months pax figures decline excuse - 8.5% down due to unseasonal heatwave in the West Mids area????

GayFriendly

10th Nov 2006, 23:03

OltonPete

11th Nov 2006, 07:56

GayFriendly

ARN, BUDA, WAW, FCO - agreed all should be operating now

FR - Can see both sides of the argument in terms of charges but yes
"heads in the sand" did sum up the general attitude to LCC's but
boy have they had a big wake-up call

November Pax - Shock horror, should actually be up between 3-7%
depending on weather (notams show runway closures)

Baby - Like you I now fear the worse unless they send the 9th aircraft
here. With BACON gone I can see at least 2 CDG's
possibly 4 EDI's and 3 GlA's. This will not leave many new routes

BA/BE - The worrying aspect is that last summer the combined based
units were 13 with another 8 early morning arrivals. If BE
do as they claim and dump the BA aircraft quickly, how many
based units will there be? I can also see the 5 early BA morning
inbounds just going (route duplication and lack of craft).
How flybe are going to shuffle the back and speed up deliveries
is going to interesting to watch.

NEMA - Not totally brilliant at the moment, I could have bought ten
tickets for week next for £166 for virtually any European route and some of tomorrows flights are £40 return. Even with FR's low cost
base, these surely are mega empty. I know people travelling
soon (tomorrow and next week ready with their reports)

Pete

Call Established

11th Nov 2006, 10:07

Banotok,

I personally feel the airport may of taken the view that they are happy with the results from operating as an airport. Afterall it is a business they are running. Whilst I accept the lack of destinations and carriers offered at present and I am not airport management, but if it was losing money and really really needed carriers then I am sure they would invest in giving away free fees to a Ryanair or Easy in return for a few hundred thousand pax a year that the low cost carriers can give. These pax spend money in the terminal shops - parking etc.... and its these shops that pay the famous high rent and 6% of its turnover licence fee to the airport! It is a known fact BHX probably like many airports make more in "other" charges than in landing fee´s.

Regds...........

Centre cities

11th Nov 2006, 10:44

Banotok,
These pax spend money in the terminal shops - parking etc.... and its these shops that pay the famous high rent and 6% of its turnover licence fee to the airport! It is a known fact BHX probably like many airports make more in "other" charges than in landing fee´s.
Regds...........

If the above is the case then havn't the airport got in wrong. More pax equals more revenue and the landing charges hinder this.

I am not convinced myself. I would like to see the accounts of some of the locost base airports and their results.

Centre cities.

AbeamPoints

11th Nov 2006, 11:30

BHX needs to get a grip.

EVERY UK major conurbation has a native low cost airline, often two. BHX has an anaemic BMIBaby offering and a handful of Ryanair W patterns. Come on the second city(!), get a grip. Lower your ridiculous charges. You CANNOT charge more than LONDON Stansted without looking like complete pillocks. BHX management are damaging the Midlands economy because:

a) They have no serious rival airport (don't say Coventry as its rubbish).

b) They charge so much that only middle east and barely profitable airlines can operare and in the first case there is no European routing and in the last no non-regional.

This should not be allowed to stand. BHX is a valuable resource which is being mismanaged. People are starting to notice. The likes of Bristol and Liverpool were Minnows compared to Birminghams Pike only 6 years ago. How times change. Perhaps BHX's management should be changed to reflect this?

AP

Call Established

11th Nov 2006, 11:59

Centre Cities

It is again a known fact that Ryanair will approach an airport and open a new route for which if I recall they can guarantee 115,000 pax per route per annum. In return for this they will say to the airport how much are you going to pay us per passenger for giving you 115,000 pax per annum per route extra through your terminals. Some airports pass and others are prepared to pay. In which case if you pay its normally a per head fee back to Ryanair, hence FR´s success in secondary located airfields. Now the airport have to look to the extra pax for income in terms of spend and parking etc...

I guess and only guess that BHX are not open to this deal hence no FR, but this case would say to me that more pax does not mean more landing fees or more taxes as in this case the airport have to pay FR and not receive enough taxes / landing fees from them to make it viable to have the carrier. In BHX case they will hold out for other carriers to serve routes through natural growth if they are happy with the airports current performance.

Only my humble opionion and may be wrong!!!!!

SeamusCVT

11th Nov 2006, 13:47

a) They have no serious rival airport (don't say Coventry as its rubbish).

AP

Coventry is so rubbish that it has kept hold of the third largest UK airline, and has attracted the second largest Central and Eastern European Airline to both operate from a glorified Portakabin? Yes, Coventry Airport and Management must be appaling...

CVTDog

11th Nov 2006, 16:37

Mr Abeampoints - You sir are talking b:mad: ks.

Please compare the growth at CVT against the shrinkage at BHX.

I use both and they are vastly different

CVT is a drag if there is a delay outbound (due to the size of the famed portacabins) - but on return, its soooo nice to be met by your bags going around on the conveyor (as opposed to the famed BHX 30 - 50 minute wait)

Is it better than BHX ? - obviously not.

But the management team are really having a go at bringing in work instead of actively trying to loose it

jmc757

11th Nov 2006, 21:21

a) They have no serious rival airport (don't say Coventry as its rubbish).

As already said, Coventry is certainly no BHX but what theyve managed out of portakabins is impressive. People (airlines and pax) still want to fly in and out of their despite that.

In the new year the chances are they'll get permission for the long awaited terminal, a terminal that is being designed for locos. Things may then change. With concrete (pardon the pun) facilities and infrastructure, far lower costs and generally being geared towards the lo-cost short haul market Coventry may well give BHX a run for their money on short haul.

True Blue

11th Nov 2006, 22:54

I flew out of bhx to bfs in October. The queues for security were awful. What really got me was that all pax were made to remove shoes. That week, I had used 4 airports, Bfs,Bhd,Man and Bhx. Bhx was the only one that made all pax remove shoes, the others were a percenatge. I asked why only bhx was doing this, I was told management instruction. I make this point after reading the comments about falling pax nos. The hassle pax have now with security at airports is bad enough without somebody in Bhx deciding to do something extra. This hardly encourgages pax to use Bhx and why do they feel that they need to be different?

True Blue

Centre cities

11th Nov 2006, 23:50

Coventrys passenger base is lo cost. The driving force for the passenger is the cost of the flight. It does not matter if it a cabin for a terminal.

Now a passenger of to or from Frankfurt on business or a company bringing in a prospective important client is a different kettle of fish.

It is a different market.

Centre cities

OltonPete

12th Nov 2006, 08:15

True Blue

I believe that the "shoes" aspect has changed recently and Dublin
(as an example) was doing it well before BHX as I found out last year.

Although I am sure that there has been moans but all the people I have heard from going through BHX recently (11 last week alone) have
stated that there have been queues but little whinging.

In fact from work colleagues and friends most comments have been
positive (probably due to the pax figures) and if there is a whinge
it is baggage reclaim or the oppressive looking T1 airside.

CVT Dog

I must admit I for one found the Coventry flights an irritant at first,
(opinion has changed although probably would not use it), due to
the fact why have flights from one airport where another just up the road
has plenty of slots and space. I also questioned the viability of the
operation and boy must Coventry have a low cost base as last
winters pax would have finished most airlines.

This summers pax in fact showed a greater percentage decrease than
BHX with May to August down between 8 and 18%.

However I do realise that Thomsonfly now have a tighter operation and all flights average around the 100+ pax in summer except Orly. Next summer
is even tighter with some aircraft "W" out for the day.

Is it competition for BHX, probably but as CC stated in the last post
it is a different market and the only airlines that could really hurt BHX
in the short-term with a Coventry operation is Easyjet and Ryanair.

Coventry as a city has a reasonbly big population and should be able to support some flights but Thomsonfly I think have found it is not as easy
as it looks.

Pete

SeamusCVT

12th Nov 2006, 13:14

Although passenger numbers are down YOY for Summer 2006 at CVT (due to reduction in number of flights), the load factor has increased. 75% in 2005, 84% 2006. Please note this information is for scheduled season flying...end March through to end October. Lord knows what kind of yield/revenue that has produced if any to attract the bums on seats.

Winter promises to be better than last year, with the runway open every day of TOM operations (2005 was resurfaced meaning late evening, Day 1 arrivals, all Day 2 and Day 3 departures and arrivals, and early morning Day 4 departures went from EMA), and VLC is operating throughout all of Winter, rather than having a gap between mid-November and early February. There, thats enough from me about CVT on the BHX thread...just wanted to show my support

Re shoes, I felt more comfortable as a passenger, with everyone having shoes taken off and checked at the height of the security alerts in August...to be honest now I would feel more comfortable if all shoes were checked today...terrorists can strike at any time, anywhere, not just at holiday season in the Government's and British Airways' Utopia of London...so well done to Birmingham airport for thinking about the safety of passengers.

AMM626

16th Nov 2006, 12:25

30 October.
The Indian diaspora living in the interiors of the UK could soon have
the option of flying with another Indian carrier.
Indian is evaluating the option of operating to Birmingham with the
leased Airbus A-330 aircraft that are to soon be inducted into its
fleet.
"Birmingham is one of the cities being considered along with
destinations in Australia, South Africa and China. Our teams have
visited the cities and a decision on which routes the A-330 aircraft
would be deployed is expected soon," a senior airline official told
Business Line.
As part of the study the airline is also examining the possibility of
operating on the Gujarat-Birmingham route as several requests have
been received from the Gujarati community both in the UK and India,
sources said.
The airline was earlier evaluating the option of deploying the Airbus
A-330 aircraft on the India-London sector. However, there was a
rethink in the airline mainly on account of drop in yields and
intense competition on the India-Heathrow route.
Currently, Air India and Jet Airways operate regular flights from
various cities in India to Heathrow, while British Airways and Virgin
Atlantic operate regular flights from Heathrow to various Indian
cities.
The intense competition on the route has seen return fares drop to as
low as Rs 18,000.
Air India, however, is the only airline from India and the UK side to
operate regular services to Birmingham.

Yesterdays online edition:
Indian Airlines announced it has established an internal panel to
review the rationalisation of international routes as it takes
delivery of widebody aircraft (Hindu Business Line, 15-Nov-06). The
carrier is considering suspending London service and launching
services to Birmingham, South Africa, Australia and Hong Kong.

OltonPete

16th Nov 2006, 17:26

They are adding a Saturday morning rotation from this week.

The press release mentions offering an extra 232 seats per month,
which indicates that it will be a J41.

Pete

OltonPete

16th Nov 2006, 17:33

Interesting choice of destination for BHX, it has been mentioned many
times that there is a large Gujarati community in the East Midlands.

I wonder if they have spoken to East Midlands considering the
quotes from a local East Mids paper mentioned a few weeks ago
on the NEMA thread.

Pete

CVTDog

16th Nov 2006, 22:12

Pete. Your earlier posts regarding FlyBe and its summer schedules may prove correct if my source is to be belived. They may use their BHX based aircraft for the more lucrative BACON slots they now have at their disposal. Therefore scuppering my grand plan to hang on for Embraer flights to ALC next summer !

Drat !

:ugh:

OltonPete

17th Nov 2006, 07:22

CVTDog

Don't tease what else have you heard?

Mine was a pure guess based on the reasoning that they said that they
will be getting rid of most of the BACON craft asap and FAO, AGP, ALC just eat up flying hours.

Is there any hit to the number of based aircraft at BHX, I think 10 or
11 was mentioned but I would love to know the split between 400/146/
195.

I just cannot believe that they will use the 145 after BACON has stated
the operation was still not making money, you just can't risk your own
business by taking them on.

It would be better to keep the three RJ100's on short lease until LCY
need them or new aircraft are delivered.

Pete

legalize

19th Nov 2006, 22:26

Any news on any new hajj flights operating from bhx this year?

bmibabyfc

22nd Nov 2006, 21:16

baby to announce NEW routes from BHX very soon and let me tell you they are for once quite impressive!!!

Not your ABZ's even ..........

x1 in Portugal (not FARO - thats already been announced)

x1 in France (totally new route and not a current baby route!)

x1 in Italy (once again a totally new route and not a past baby route!)

x1 in Spain (a previous baby route from another base - and not MJV as prev announced)

any guesses .....

regards

bmibabyfc

SeamusCVT

22nd Nov 2006, 21:26

Lisbon, Marseille, Bologna, Madrid?

OltonPete

22nd Nov 2006, 21:32

bmibabyfc

You love this don't you?;)

Portugal - Lisbon (4-5 per week?)

Italy - Rome (daily?) - please please please but no VCE or PSA?

France - good one..........Marseille or Carcassone (or Lyon?)

Spain........Barcelona must be a definite, which is amazing as other
forums or threads have mentioned slot problems

I take it that is not it, I assume with the end of Bacon could we see
four EDI's, 3 GLA's and possible 2-3 CDG.

No eastern European (Poland or Buda) or Scandinavia (Stockholm?)

I must admit I feared the worse with the BACON announcement,
I thought they would just go after market share and load the EDI's
GLA's, I thought Germany would be safe due to the LH connection.

Pete

AMM626

22nd Nov 2006, 21:41

Lisbon, Rome, Marseilles, Barcelona or Valencia???

Am slightly dissapointed that Eastern Europe has been overlooked but any good news for BHX at the moment is welcome :D

bmibabyfc

22nd Nov 2006, 21:44

ooohhh very close !!!!

i wont tease any further :D

although I I I I cant reveal the routes lets just say someone on pprune will in a minute .......

regards

bmibaby FC

here you go BHX

22nd Nov 2006, 21:50

just heard the new routes from BHX as follows ......

x1 FCO daily i think leaving first wave 0710

x1 MRS think 3 times a week

x1 bcn daily leaving 1910 i think

x1 LIS around 4 times a week

bmibabyfc

22nd Nov 2006, 21:52

sod it ......

x1 FCO daily i think around 0710

x1 LIS i think about 3 times a week

x1 BCN daily 1910 roughly

x1 MRS 3 times a week i think

SeamusCVT

22nd Nov 2006, 21:54

Well, that's why i'm not in airline planning!!

OltonPete

22nd Nov 2006, 22:06

bmibabyfc

ta very much but what about the rest!!!

Still lots of holes and no CDG!

If the Rome is 07.10 that is the 8 based taken up on early morning
unless they re-arrange.

No second Prague or 4th EDI or is this just aircraft number 7?

Rome - MRS/LIS - then Barcelona would scape in as a schedule .

Is there more to come or just more of what we have already.

Where is that 4th aircraft going, I thought they might re-direct it
to BHX or MAN with the flybe/bacon news

Also do you know when they go on sale as I want to go to Rome, family members want to go to BCN and possibly Lisbon. Not sure about
Marseille, they have just cut NCE and BOD more than they usually
do in winter although in the summer there are no probs.

Pete

Daza

22nd Nov 2006, 23:11

Its official as per website
LIS,MRS,FCO and BCN now bookable online at last some decent routes good news for BHX
Daza

Daza

23rd Nov 2006, 08:55

Rome is FCO better for business travellers and daily at 0640
Lisbon is Mon,Wed,Fri and Sat at a mid day departure
Marseille is Mon,Wed,Fri,Sun again mid day departure
Barcelona is daily evening departure with some real bargain fares!!
Also GLA is now 3 per day from May and EDI is now 4 per day from May a big increase for BMI.
Daza

GayFriendly

23rd Nov 2006, 08:58

Thank goodness for that, some good news at last:D I hope these routes go well and heres to some more (or am I being greedy?). Realistically although there are still gaps, I think CDG and increases on EDI/GLA are likely. Mind you if that fourth a/c arrives who knows...........

CheekyVisual

23rd Nov 2006, 18:03

Isn't the 4th BMI baby a/c being used to fly these new routes? Heard it was a decision between cardiff and BHX.
Any news?;)

OltonPete

23rd Nov 2006, 18:15

CheekyVisual

BHX has 5 based now, will get the two Durham aircraft at the end of
March, which are apparently covering heavy maintenance on the
existing fleet during the winter and then aircraft number 8 arrives
at the end of May.

This leaves one remaining unit to be allocated (out of the two "newly
sourced" aircraft), which some on the Cardiff thread thought they would get and some on the NEMA thread thought they would get :ouch:

Now with the BACON/Flybe news I would have thought MAN or BHX
would have been the main contenders but you never know.

I might be wrong but I bet BHX were not getting 4 x EDI and 3 x GLA a day before the BACON announcement which might have lost BHX two new destinations.

They know really that BHX needs baby aircraft number 9;)

Pete

FougaMagister

23rd Nov 2006, 22:35

Olton Pete - the "original" plan was apparently to send the fourth aircraft to Cardiff; but being baby, things can (and do) change at the last minute! As you mention, if not Cardiff, then my money's on EMA!

These new routes are a bit of a change (although I can see GLA being swamped by WW and BE), but I am not convinced by MRS. If you are already flying to NCE (the main hub on the Riviera) what's the point of also going 130km up the road? Also, we (at Maersk Air :ok: ) tried MRS for a few months back in 2000, and stopped it when the bums on seats rarely exceeded 40-45 :{ That wouldn't be enough to turn out a profit, even with a low-cost base. Incidentally, ABZ is not doing too well, except on week-ends, which begs the question: why not operate it with a bmi Regional ABZ-based ERJ-145 instead?

The other routes will probably do well, but like many, I regret the lack of Central/Northern European routes (like Budapest, Bratislava, Krakow or Riga).

Cheers :cool:

FlyOften

23rd Nov 2006, 22:37

Flybe have also announced today up to 10 times Edinburgh & Glasgow in a "shuttle style" service. A reduction on combinded existing Flybe & Bacon, but I guess to be expected. I wonder if this has been rushed out in response to the Baby news ?

GayFriendly

24th Nov 2006, 10:36

FougaMagister - I agree east Europe is an area that BHX does need to develop, i'm sure that WAW, BUD would do well, maybe Riga at a lower frequency for the weekend away market. I also feel there is still much potential from Italy, Rome is a very welcome new route but I bet Venice, Pisa and even Turin could work at right timings and prices. And how about reintroducing Vienna, I heard this route did quite well? There is a phase three of expansion planned by Baby according to BIA press release (although this could be just additional frequency on existing routes as no mention of new routes). Also BE mentioned expansion into East Europe on their regional BHX press release about BACON - but i'm sure they have more pressing issues to deal with at the mo. And anyway I don't believe all I read..........

As for ABZ on a 145 have you seen the prices that BMI Regional charge? From Norwich where I live at the mo its a whopping £100 single to get to ABZ!!!!! Which begs the question if Baby can't fill it at low fares then why did they bother starting, i'm all in favour of competition but only where justified, three flights a day is enough I think on this route. Likewise with EDI/GLA I just can't understand the obsession with such high frequencies, true road and rail links aren't great and can take a while but I just don't see that the demand is there, surely they can't make money, I travelled a lot in 2005 on both routes and they were rarely full except maybe Fri evening and at weekends.

Daza

24th Nov 2006, 18:36

My brother is a ground services manager for BAR(for now!!!!) at BHX and rememders MRS well. We all travelled on it several times that summer. It was daily with a 735 too frequent, too expensive BMIBabys fares start at £15 one way! All those Maersk routes that Summer VCE, TLS, ATH, MRS,TRN all had potential but were under marketed with a BA that is dis-intersed in anywhere north of Watford.

That part of Provence is lovely as is the City of Marseille great historic port area, some excellent shopping and great Middle Easteren and North African food. ( I should work for their tourism board!!?)
Daza

FougaMagister

24th Nov 2006, 19:47

I agree that Marseille is interesting as a destination, but I'm not sure there will be enough PAX. As for the EDI/GLA/ABZ, could the increased frequencies have anything to do with the baby CEO being Scottish? :E

The plan within baby is to eventually have 10 based a/c at BHX. No telling when though.

Cheers :cool:

Richard Taylor

25th Nov 2006, 07:26

AND he's from Aberdeen. ;)

Seriously though surprised about the poor start for bmi B on BHZ-ABZ if true. I thought the airline said they had been "overwhelmed" by advance bookings before the route started. Airline spin? Maybe they meant UNDERwhelmed!

Seems, for now, pax prefer BACon, but given that Flybe are about seemingly to swallow BACon, how much longer. And what will Flybe do with the route, as they were themselves going to introduce their own BHX-ABZ service in Spring07. Will those plans change - and at what frequency?

Perhaps 3 a day M-F is indeed the optimum freq on the route.

OltonPete

25th Nov 2006, 07:50

The provisional CAA stats for October show an increase of a 1000 pax
on October 2005, which included 3 days of the new Baby service.

Most of the previous months had been up slightly so some could be
attributed to the "new" Bacon concept but overall not too bad of a
start for five flights (1 x 29th, 2 x 30th & 2 x 31st).

Okay, I am sure miles from profitability on the fares baby charged.

Another factor which can make a difference of some routes is the school holidays but I doubt these made little difference to these figures.

Pete

Centre cities

25th Nov 2006, 08:16

Lovely city it is but I am planning my little break there in the spring, not the place to be in the winter really.

Centre cities

Richard Taylor

25th Nov 2006, 08:32

Centre Cities:

If you're planning to come in Spring, I'd still take yer winter woollies!!!

It's been known to snow here in Mar/Apr - heaviest snowfall on a Mar for 50yrs here last year (over a foot - OK it's not Canada/US proportions but it was still a lot!!)

As with RYR & LPL-ABZ, I wonder whether it would have been better for Baby to launch the route in Spring, for the summer weather.

Touched 30 degrees here in July, so we can get perfectly nice summery weather here as well.

Lite

25th Nov 2006, 12:26

Has there been any confirmation yet on what will happen in terms of based aircraft, handling agent and terminal for flybe for next summer?

Runway 31

25th Nov 2006, 12:34

Invicta DC4

25th Nov 2006, 14:37

I flew Edinburgh-Birmingham and return with Flybe on Wednesday. O910 out,24 pax in a Q400 and about 75% full in the Embraer going back. Nice flights but I paid £36 for the return, good for me but they cannot be making very much at these prices and loads.

Flew Flybe BHX - EDI last Saturday on the 0845 Q400 and it was full. Coming back on the Tuesday 12.30 EDI - BHX load was about 60%.

Fried_Chicken

25th Nov 2006, 15:39

Any news on any new hajj flights operating from bhx this year?

Having spoken to various travel agents recently, there are no Hajj flights to be operated from Birmingham this year.

There is apparently a large reduction in capacity from the UK this year for the Hajj pilgrimage with Manchester only having a handful this year

Fried Chicken

OltonPete

25th Nov 2006, 15:54

Sorry to keep harping on to the CAA stats but I monitor the BHX ones
monthly for another forum (sad I know) and EDI averages 60-65% load
factor virtually every month and Glasgow 55-60%.

No great shakes but I assume yield must be okay (with WW & BE)
otherwise I am sure the number of flights would have reduced.
BACON have helped slowly reducing from the RJ100 on most flights
to just two a day on each route most days.

The proposal of 10 a day by flybe on EDI and GLA is not that bad.

Assuming the EDI is all DH4 and WW 733 (they do use 735's) it
will mean a reduction in seats available most days compared to now.

Not quite the same for Glasgow which with Baby starting it will
see a healthy increase.

Booked EDI three months ago at £36 return for a day trip in
December. It was only this much because I chose to fly out
on BE and back on WW (BE are £13 more on base fare).

Pete

FougaMagister

25th Nov 2006, 19:10

(...) there is still much potential from Italy, Rome is a very welcome new route but I bet Venice, Pisa and even Turin could work at right timings and prices.

It has been mentioned inside the company that baby are wary of starting many Italian routes at once, as Italian handling agents do not have a very good track record of routinely achieving 25-minute turnarounds (specially when there is a football game on TV ;) ).

Cheers :cool:

CVTDog

25th Nov 2006, 23:06

Pete.

Interested in the data source for the loading stats. Is it possble to drill through the figures to get to individual carriers performance ?

(or their routes) eg BHX to ALC by MON, BE, WW

chrism20

26th Nov 2006, 00:20

CVT I have also wondered this on a number routes, would be interesting if we could get this information - merely to allocate marketshare if anything else

OltonPete

26th Nov 2006, 08:17

CVTDog

Not as far as I am aware.

It is a shame really as it is not particularly sensitive information either
(well not as much as yield data) but I suppose there would be additional costs separating the data.

Pete

Daza

28th Nov 2006, 09:43

New routes from BHX
Split Sat only
Dubrovnik Tue,Thu,Sat
Hamburg (former BACON) only once a day with mid day timing.
GLA and EDI onsale for summer but NO sign of 10 a day shuttle that has been sited on website??
Daza

jmc757

28th Nov 2006, 16:54

Daza

Only a guess but is the Split just selling off surplus seats on a flight that is for a tour operator? Perhaps even the Dubrovnik as well? I know these routes have been operated before for specialist tour ops.

OltonPete

28th Nov 2006, 17:30

I wouldn't be surprised if the Split is just taking on empty seats from the IT. At least Dubrovnik does get a Tuesday and Thursday rotation.

Not surprised at the loss of Malaga, Alicante, Faro & Murcia but I don't
understand why Perpignan has been lost (Unless all of these are going
to be released later).

All the French routes took a battering and I assume that it was down
to Ryanair at East Mids (Dinard, Carcassonne etc).

Toulouse is down on Summer 2006 at four a week but Belfast City
is back to seven a day Monday to Friday.

So as expected still only five based aircraft until the BACON purchase
is complete.

Pete

GayFriendly

28th Nov 2006, 19:08

Yet more routes!! :D Mind you BHX needs 'em!!

Looking at the website I would say that both Split and the Sun Dubrovnik are just surplus seats on an already nearly full tour operator booked aircraft - prices are sky high (between £130-150 single) yet the Tues/Thurs Dubrovniks start at about £15 single! Still shouldn't be moaning, a last a brave move by a loco at BHX to tread where no one has before (well since the good old days of JAT at least!) I think both have the potential to do well...........am not in the least surprised that the BE have left the Spanish routes, with Baby and Monarch thats more than enough capacity. What does anyone think about the remaining BACON routes, especially those that are BACON only????? I can see MAD and MXP staying, not sure about TXL, STR, LYS and GVA (as a year round flight), which would leave a dent in schedules despite recent new route announcements.

Interesting times ahead - and why no PGF from BE? Lets hope thats still to be released, its not on from SOU either and i'm sure they did it from there last summer. PS amazed that we still have La Rochelle and Bergerac, can they survive yet another summer onslaught by Ryanair at NEMA? Oh yeah, any more on Jet Airways?? Or are they just another Qatar...........

GayFriendly

28th Nov 2006, 19:14

:( OK so I need glasses, PGF has been released from SOU making it I would assume unlikely from BHX this summer . Perhaps room for the Baby to grow a bit more as they already do it from MAN?

OltonPete

28th Nov 2006, 19:46

Yes not sure why Perpignan was picked on more than the others but
Baby could squeeze it in between the Amsterdam's or three a week
when the MRS does not operate. Was this not rumoured?

As for Bacon routes, if it all goes ahead I would think Stuttgart might
stay 2 a day, Lyon will probably be one a day, Dusseldorf 2-3,
Frankfurt? (they will probably want to keep the slots they have).

Geneva I reckon will go & not sure about Berlin (again Baby filed for
slots in Summer 05).

Paris I am sure they will keep at 4 or 5 a day and Milan at two.

Barcelona will be interesting with Baby on the route but of course
they hold great slots (I assume they don't have to give them back).

Madrid hopefully will carry on although could it be a complete
Spanish pullout?

Don't forget wasn't some Eastern European routes promised?

Pete

Ian Farquharson

28th Nov 2006, 20:01

Pete

I suspect the promised FlyBe Eastern european routes are Dubrovnik & Split.

I hope I am wrong !

Ian

CVTDog

28th Nov 2006, 22:31

Pete - (and anyone else that knows)

Sitting on the website now and I can see a "summer 07" logo for ALC but cant get past March 07.

Does anyone KNOW anything please. Gonna try and play catchup and book with WW and MON if nothing is going to happen. This summers Fri 15:10 slot was great to get home and back on a Sunday evening - any thoughts ???

OltonPete

28th Nov 2006, 23:03

CVTDog

Both Malaga & Alicante are listed on the homepage with an * and the
explanation states travel on and before 27/3/07 and see website for
later (or similar). I would say it is not looking good and of no surprise.

Ian.

Yes of course, they are both definitely in Eastern Europe but four a week
and two of them are possibly pseudo charters is certainly pushing it a bit on the promotional side but I suppose technically correct!!!!!!!!!!

Pete

Centre cities

28th Nov 2006, 23:33

Wasnt there a clause when Flybe ceased operating the CDG flights for Air France that they could not opertate the flights in their own name for a certain amount of time or did I just imagine that.

Centre cities

CVTDog

29th Nov 2006, 08:38

Had a e-mail last night announcing Summer 2007 sale in banner headline. Underneath in a panel "Sun Specials" from Birmingham it lists Bergerac (new) Alicante & Malaga

As you rightly state Pete, their booking page only goes to March 07 :ugh: So I sent there customer relations dept a swift e-mail for clarification and got this repsonse :

Thank you for your email.

I regret to note any dissatisfaction felt with our new timetable. The decision is made by the commercial planning department not to continue the service from Birmingham to Alicante for commercial reasons. Whilst we have no current plans to re-introduce this service you may be assured your comment have been forwarded to those concerned.

Yours Sincerely

Customer Relations.

Better get on with BMI & Mon now - no Friday afternoon flights so thats my weekends messed up

Wish they could have told us earlier -

OltonPete

29th Nov 2006, 18:27

CVTDog

At least they have finally cleared that up and I am going to do the same
with Perpignan as this was on my Summer 2007 shortlist.

I know it is of no consolation to you but at least losing Malaga and
Alicante for BHX is not as bad as some others and as many predicted
it is of no surprise.

Good luck with booking and I will post any reply I get from flybe re
Perpignan etc.

Pete

OltonPete

30th Nov 2006, 09:55

Confirmed as gone, another extremely prompt reply from flybe
customer relataions: -

Thank you for your email

At present, Flybe intend to operate the current BA Connect schedule however any new routes will be announced on the Flybe website. At present, we do not have any plans to reinstate the Perpignan service however your comments have been forwarded to our Commercial Planning Department for information.

Yours sincerley

Customer Relations

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One for baby? Certainly room in their current 2007 schedule?

Pete

AMM626

3rd Dec 2006, 18:58

I think we're seeing the effects of years of under investment in BHX now. BHX are charging a premium price (4th in the WORLD was it?) for a substandard product. The international pier is just horrendous, and when business pax are paying alot of money to fly with you, those grotty little lounges must put airlines right off.
Then there's the old runway extension (how long has it dragged on for?), it's obvious that yields reduce outside the capital and freight is probably the main way to compensate for this.

Also CO at BHX has usually been more expensive than MAN or London, I would guess the reason is to recuperate the charges levied.

A recent comment from BHX management entitled 'BHX a significant alternative to Heathrow'

'At the moment, 56 percent of people that are from [the airport's] catchment area use other airports - Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester - because we do not have the route network.'
Morris said that more long-haul routes are on the cards for the airport. Plans for a runway expansion would permit 'direct flights to China, south-east Asia and the western USA'. He added: 'There is no need for an obsession with Heathrow when many of its users come from more than 100 miles away.'

but how can they expect to get the route network without investment in the infrastructure?

I think BHX is in a catch 22 situation, it needs the money from the airlines to make a major investment, but without major investment it's doubtful many airlines would be interested unless the price was right. Something has to give sooner or later because if BHX aren't prepared to offer what they want, others will. Who'd have thought a few years ago that EMA's long haul IT network would equal, probably even surpass BHX's?

Given that the management seemingly will settle for less paying more than more paying less I can see it getting worse before it gets better. :ugh:

adz555666

3rd Dec 2006, 19:24

As a regular plane spotter & SLF, at BHX since I was knee high to a grasshopper, I've heard lots of stories about different airlines who want to come to BHX, but are put off due to shortness of runway/landing charges/lack of terminal space etc.

So I've resigned myself to the fact that BHX will never get the runway extension it so badly needs. This is due to the local NIMBYS who will protest about anything connected to BHX. They moan saying that there will be an increase in noise, pollution etc.....

If you don't like it MOVE HOUSE!!
(Or if you live close enough, take up the offer that BHX gave you for buying your property, & go live somewhere far far away!)

BHX has been there for many many years, why buy a house next to or near and airport? Didn't they notice the planes when they signed the contract?!!!

But the ironic things is, when these's NIMBY'S want to visit Aunty Jean in USA/NZ/Auz, they'll be the first to moan about having to travel to LHR/LGW?MAN etc when they got an airport "right on there doorstep!"

And due to the current management team at BHX pandering to NIMBY's, the only new routes that BHX will be able to attract will be new European destinations!

Sorry for the rant but its been buiding up for 20+ years!!

Best Wishes

Adam

Off Stand

3rd Dec 2006, 20:40

Adam,

Every word you have just written is 110% true and those that currently and used to work at BHX feel exactly the same.:ugh:

adz555666

3rd Dec 2006, 21:25

I used to work at BHX too, worked in the Bond Warehouse for 5 years with A*PHA!

Sad thing is that its like that at every major airport in UK!
Heathrow, new runway & T5,
Gatwick, 2nd runway (yes I know about how they can't have a 2nd runway till 20**!)
Manchester, how long did it take them to build there 2nd runway?
Stansted, 2nd runway refused!

And all the time our European neighbours get bigger & bigger!
At Amsterdam, if you have to take off from the new runway, thats a long taxi time till you actually get to it!!

Best Wishes

Adam

Off Stand

3rd Dec 2006, 22:47

I too worked for A*PHA in duty paid/free in the EUROHUB 95-98 and Servisair 98-00, since then I have worked out of LTN, LGW and LHR for my last and current airline. The prob with BIA Management compared to some is that they live a bubble thinking all is going swimmingly. Granted, there seems to be more short expansion than there has been for quite a while, but until they sort out the runway extension, constantly failing baggage belt facilties (causing pax delays), massive queues at security during peak times, may big players in the airline world will over look us.

AMM626

4th Dec 2006, 09:08

I think even on the European front it will be difficult to break even with an already poor year this year. Flybe will be significantly less than Flybe and BACON and, whilst ANY expansion is welcome, it would seem like Baby's new routes are like putting a sticking plaster on a broken leg.
Some interesting times ahead and BHX probably needs a good long look at where its heading, can't see many (if any) full service airlines being interested after OK and AZ both failed.
As for Long Haul, it would seem that with CO going west and EK goin east the management are just happy to advertise the legendary 'one easy connection' and settle for it.
I think BHX has potential to be far greater than what it is, what we need is an administration with ambition, vision and most of all balls, but sadly it's BHX and nothing ever changes.:(

steviefartpants

5th Dec 2006, 13:39

So I've resigned myself to the fact that BHX will never get the runway extension it so badly needs. This is due to the local NIMBYS who will protest about anything connected to BHX. They moan saying that there will be an increase in noise, pollution etc.....

If you don't like it MOVE HOUSE!!
(Or if you live close enough, take up the offer that BHX gave you for buying your property, & go live somewhere far far away!)

BHX has been there for many many years, why buy a house next to or near and airport? Didn't they notice the planes when they signed the contract?!!!

But the ironic things is, when these's NIMBY'S want to visit Aunty Jean in USA/NZ/Auz, they'll be the first to moan about having to travel to LHR/LGW?MAN etc when they got an airport "right on there doorstep!"

And due to the current management team at BHX pandering to NIMBY's, the only new routes that BHX will be able to attract will be new European destinations!

Sorry for the rant but its been buiding up for 20+ years!!

Best Wishes

Adam

What rubbish about the local nimbys, yeah they moan and groan but in the end its for nothing as the expansion goes ahead anyway.
As for them holding back expansion to the usa to see aunty jean, why did BA and AA stop flying to USA.... cos they were losing a lot of money due to demand/yield low, not due to the local nimbys they probably flew from london or man cos it was cheaper.

Emirates advertised Australia from BHX but there aircraft are not full of local people wanting to fly there, so is the demand there for quantas or ba to operate.....no!

Why did alitalia stop?
why did ryanair not expand?
Costs not the locals moaning.

Its the BHX management who holds back BHX with there high costs etc.

As for sell up to BHX,Bhx offered to buy the houses affected for the new runway at valuations of 4+ years ago meaning that they wanted to buy them at cost hell of a lot lower than current market value.That would mean the owners taking out extra mortgages of upto 30+k to buy a similar house far far away....would you sell to them for that kind of deal,I dont think so.

P.S. I'm not one of your nimbys.

bmibaby.com

5th Dec 2006, 21:31

A merger between flybe and BA Connect at least guarantees that some of the routes will be safe. If the merger doesn't go ahead, then BACON will simply be closed down, or potentially offered to another airline, as British Airways has no interest in operating from the regions, as they cannot do so profitably. Whilst this may mean frequencies decrease, I don't see a major drop in capacity if there is market for these flights. Taking GLA or EDI as an example, flybe will be providing frequent flights, bmibaby will be on these at least three times daily as well as thrice daily from EMA, and there is also a decent rail service from Virgin Trains. With all of this competition, you can see how BACON were potentially being squeezed. It would be a real shame if flybe didn't take this opportunity to fill in gaps in BHX's shorthaul route network such as Italy, Eastern Europe and Scandinavia; as well as keeping up the excellent BACON network in Germany, virgin ground it seems for flybe.

I have heard that flybe are now nearly confirmed to be operating from Terminal 2 to be handled by Swissport. This seems like the best solution for both the airport and flybe. The airport doesn't see a huge imbalance between T1 & T2 as they did after the closure of duo. flybe get to scream the benefits of regional airport flying - ie quick from the car, to the check in, to the departure gate - minimal fuss which is what business passengers want. I think it's a shame that flybe might not be offering Executive Club benefits, as these would be a major incentive to keep people loyal to the proposed 15% owned by BA flybe. Hopefully flybe and Swissport can offer the high levels of customer service that BA Connect passengers have come to expect.

adz555666

5th Dec 2006, 21:55

A few months ago, I was wondering who to fly with when I was planning a daytrip to GLA from BHX

Flybe quoted me £25 rtn,
BACON quoted me £50 rtn!

I can see why BACON never stood a chance!

Best Wishes

Adam

OltonPete

5th Dec 2006, 21:57

bmibaby.com

I agree with virtually all you say, T2 would be good for flybe and hopefully
they will pick up on the Italian, Scandinavian and Eastern European routes. However if their hands are tied due aircraft availability then
Baby should jump in.

I know this won't be popular elsewhere but the unallocated 737 should
come BHX's or MAN's way in view of the flybe bacon merger.

Or even better WW should be looking to source more aircraft.

I know it has been said many times that decent 733's are getting
scarce but do you know if they are looking for more?

The takeover is not only an opportunity for flybe, it is for baby as well if they to be a a serious player in the Midlands and North West lo cost scene.

Pete

hammerb32

6th Dec 2006, 00:01

Olton Pete,

Wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint, BAs retreat from the 'regions' is an amazing opportunity for BMIbaby and indeed the wider BMI group to fill the voids created. FlyBE will indoubtedy be forced to reduce some services or frequancies as they won't have the aircraft to operate them all.

FougaMagister

6th Dec 2006, 00:08

Re. BHX T2: it's natural for BIA to consider concentrating all flybe/BACON flights in one terminal, but those of us who have experience of working in both terminals will know that T2 is whoefully inadequate for fast-turnaround, low-cost ops, due to a number of specific procedures and bottlenecks (such as only one PAX security gate). Anything less than a 40-minute turnaround is a struggle at T2.

Also, flybe would need most if not all of T2 for themselves, but I can testify that Skyteam (AF/CityJet and KLM/KLM Cityhopper) will not leave T2 for the much less business-friendly T1 without a fight... They each have 6 flights a (week)day out of T2.

As for baby, obviously the flybe/BACON "merger" does create some opportunities for them. Fleet-wise, with decent 733s being in increasingly short supply, the future is in getting some (or most) ex-easyjet 737-700s as they become available. Higher lease costs yes, but lower running costs (including fuel burn) and fewer "tech" issues. Go on baby, be a devil! You know you want the 737NG...

Cheers :cool:

groundhogbhx

6th Dec 2006, 10:55

Fouga

You might have problems turning a/c round that fast but we don't. The LX turnround time is 30 mins on the ARJ and that hasn't caused any problems. So the scheduled 25 mins on a dash or 30 on a 146/E95 won't worry us at all.:ok:

bmibaby.com

6th Dec 2006, 14:49

As for baby, obviously the flybe/BACON "merger" does create some opportunities for them. Fleet-wise, with decent 733s being in increasingly short supply, the future is in getting some (or most) ex-easyjet 737-700s as they become available. Higher lease costs yes, but lower running costs (including fuel burn) and fewer "tech" issues. Go on baby, be a devil! You know you want the 737NG...
Cheers :cool:

It seems silly for bmi not to allow bmibaby to expand right now, to make the most of the flybe acquisition of BA Connect, however the airline currently cannot afford to expand any more than our allocated allowance of new aircraft that have been planned for, so unless Sir MB or Lufthansa can come up with some more funds, I doubt we'll be getting any more B733s than planned. I'd like to see bmibaby expand into more markets from the stations most affected by BA Connect's disappearance (BHX & MAN) but sadly bmi doesn't seem to have the foresight to realise you have to spend money to make money.

I was sure that T2 was equipped to allow for 30 minute turnarounds. Surely the terminal would allow for the combined flybe programme as well as the Skyteam airlines? I just can't imagine how quiet the terminal would be otherwise. Surely it wouldn't also be too difficult to consider adding another security screening gate when you consider the number of passengers who will be passing though, particularly if BHX want to keep T2 a functioning business-like terminal.

groundhogbhx

6th Dec 2006, 21:06

There is plenty of stand space now that the 20's are open, just have to hope that NCP can keep up with th bussing requirements. Having said that there will be fewer off stand flights in T1 for them to deal with:) Just hope the decisions are made soon 'cos thats one heck of a lot of staff that need poaching, sorry meant recruiting:}

FougaMagister

6th Dec 2006, 23:16

Fouga: You might have problems turning a/c round that fast but we don't. The LX turnround time is 30 mins on the ARJ and that hasn't caused any problems.:ok:

Of course. But that's also because Swissport have a good number of PAX services staff (which is how it should be). However, I have also witnessed rushed Swiss turnarounds - in one case on 8R with the airbridge off, loaders working both holds... and the Avro's anti-collision beacon already on! Come on guys, that's basic airmanship; risking a nasty accident for the sake of a few minutes isn't worth it (lucky there wasn't a DfT ramp audit at the time!)

Moving on... I agree that the situation is better with the new T2 remote stands, but I foresee traffic jams at the drop-off points, when NCP buses will block all movement by other vehicles (catering, fuel bowsers, tugs, emergency vehicles, etc.) Also, while the single T2 security gate could be improved for faster PAX flow (provided the security staff are willing to make an effort), there are also issues one floor down, i.e. only one baggage carrousel in domestic arrivals and one in international arrivals. Considering flybe's intensive schedule, there are bound to be some bottlenecks there as well. Better not give a blank cheque to BIA...

Another possible issue, should Skyteam stay in T2, is which stands to use for the E195s. Due to fuselage length, I think they can only use airbridge stands 8R/9 or 14, but these are the only acceptable stands for KLM's 737s (stand 14 can't take 737-800s or -900s for the same reason). Both AF and KLM handling contracts require airbridge stands as standard.

More headaches then?

Re. baby not being able to afford new aircraft: I find it odd that bmi can buy 45 A319/320/321/330, that Air Berlin can afford 60 A320s, flybe can finance 41 Dash8Q-400s and 14 E195s, but that baby has to make do with leasing second-hand 737-300s and has to keep the lower-rated, higher seat-mile cost 737-500s. Granted, they are good planes, but as they get older, reliability goes down and running costs go up. Remember that baby flight crew are already rated on 737NGs...

Cheers :cool:

bmibaby.com

7th Dec 2006, 17:18

Re. baby not being able to afford new aircraft: I find it odd that bmi can buy 45 A319/320/321/330, that Air Berlin can afford 60 A320s, flybe can finance 41 Dash8Q-400s and 14 E195s, but that baby has to make do with leasing second-hand 737-300s and has to keep the lower-rated, higher seat-mile cost 737-500s. Granted, they are good planes, but as they get older, reliability goes down and running costs go up. Remember that baby flight crew are already rated on 737NGs...
Cheers :cool:

Of course I completely agree with you that it's insane bmi and Lufthansa have not realised the huge potential that bmibaby or bmi regional have from the merger of flybe and BA Connect, especially when you see Lufthansa's own low-cost airline Germanwings growing from strength to strength. bmi did have an EMB-190 demonstrator at EMA towards the end of the summer which was apparently being looked into for either baby or regional, but no further information from that demonstration has been forthcoming. Indeed, the 737-300 and to a further extent the 735s are not the most efficient aircraft compared to what the competition is flying, however following big orders from Southwest and Air Berlin, there doesn't appear to be much room on the 737-700 production line for brand new examples, and I don't think baby have any interest in flying Airbus equipment. I can see the 733s being around for a couple of years yet, though it's a shame that either more of these aircraft, or indeed new ones, cannot be sourced quickly to make the best of this current situation.

AMM626

7th Dec 2006, 19:36

07.12.06
Australian investment bank Macquarie is preparing to sell its stake in Birmingham Airport (http://www.bhx.co.uk/), in a move that could prompt a full sale of Britain's fifth busiest airport, The Business newspaper reports.
The newspaper says that Macquarie, who recently took full control of Bristol Airport, has offered to sell its 24% holding in Birmingham International to the seven West Midlands councils that together already own 49% of the airport. Under the terms of the shareholding pact, the councils have pre-emptive rights - or first option - to buy Macquarie's stake.
However, 'sources familiar with the situation' have told the newspaper that the move by Macquarie to sell its shares has prompted the councils to consider a sale of their own larger stake, which could lead a buyer to purchase both sets of shares and effectively gain control of the airport.
Irish airports' operator Aer Rianta also owns a 24% stake, while the remaining approximate 3% is held in an employees' share trust. Bankers believe a joint sale by Macquarie and the councils to a single buyer would prompt Aer Rianta to reconsider its position because the firm's influence would be greatly weakened.
Analysts estimate that the current appetite for infrastructure assets could see Birmingham Airport, which posted earnings of £50m in 2004, sell for anywhere between £1bn and £1.8bn. The airport handles about 10m passengers a year making it Britain's fifth busiest. London's City Airport recently sold for £750m - a multiple of more than 35 times earnings.

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/birmingham-airport-news-071206.htm

groundhogbhx

7th Dec 2006, 21:13

Of course. But that's also because Swissport have a good number of PAX services staff (which is how it should be). However, I have also witnessed rushed Swiss turnarounds - in one case on 8R with the airbridge off, loaders working both holds... and the Avro's anti-collision beacon already on! Come on guys, that's basic airmanship; risking a nasty accident for the sake of a few minutes isn't worth it (lucky there wasn't a DfT ramp audit at the time!)

So from your position in the departure lounge you know that the ramp team where aware that the anti cols were on?? Last time I checked it was impossible to see the top beacon and only possible to see the light from the bottom one bouncing off the concrete from the hold door if you were looking in the right direction (very unlikely if you are loading bags) It is also very unlikely that you would notice them driving from one hold to the other. Anyway isn't it the responsibiltiy of the crew to be in contact with the ramp crew to ensure everything is clear BEFORE they switch the lights on, so I think they might need you to give them a lesson in airmanship as well:ok:

Bombay Bad Boy

8th Dec 2006, 07:57

I dont think a takeover would be a bad thing. Hopefully we might get a new tower instead of the jaded one we work in on the western apron!! :sad:

egbb.co.uk
BBB

bmibaby.com

10th Dec 2006, 17:11

Just going back to the issue of whether flybe will move into Terminal 2, I was under the impression that the six new remote stands adjacent to T2, as well as stands one through four at the terminal are now all capable of handling aircraft up to Boeing 737-800 sized aircraft. Considering this, the recent refurbishment of the check in hall, and planned refurbishment of the departure lounge over the winter, is it so unreasonable to think that perhaps the new terminal might be workable for flybe, especially if the airport looks into security points and the arrivals hall. As flybe operate a paid for baggage handling and lots of business routes, how extensive would work have to be for the arrivals hall to accomodate their flights? I'd imagine there are few people coming off of GLA, EDI, CDG with luggage on a BA Connect or flybe flight - though their holiday routes to France and Spain may well be very different.

tangocharlie

10th Dec 2006, 18:27

I am sure that Flybe will move to T2. However BIA's long term problem has been that many carriers would not move to the 'BA' (T2) terminal. Swapping BA for Flybe will not help BIA who will still be desperate for other carriers to move to T2.

bmibaby.com

10th Dec 2006, 18:33

GayFriendly

11th Dec 2006, 20:08

Hi - anyone got any info on what might happen to the BA Billund route if BE finally get to eat the BACON sandwich?? Its available to book in June (when I want to travel) on the BA website but is it actually operating at the mo - it forever seems to be cancelled according to the BIA flights info on their website.

BMI Baby crew rumours (hot off the back galley from a mate who works for them at BHX) - new routes to be Riga, Budapest and Venice if ninth 737 arrives...................would be nice I suppose!!

On another forum - Aer Arann have confirmed BHX to Waterford flights starting May daily except Sat. But no mention of it on their website. Anyone got any info?? Would be nice to see RE back.

And finally - have BE bitten off more than they can chew - all Spain routes from BHX cancelled from Jan (instead of March), me thinks a few aircraft short for all this what has to be said rapid expansion and thats without them unveiling the integrated BACON schedule - should this indeed actually happen. Will they manage FRA, STR etc etc...............

groundhogbhx

11th Dec 2006, 20:16

And finally - have BE bitten off more than they can chew - all Spain routes from BHX cancelled from Jan (instead of March), me thinks a few aircraft short for all this what has to be said rapid expansion and thats without them unveiling the integrated BACON schedule - should this indeed actually happen. Will they manage FRA, STR etc etc...............

Don't remember seeing any routes chopped last time I updated the schedule, a few reductions but nothing completely gone. But that could all change next week:bored:

groundhogbhx

11th Dec 2006, 20:20

I wonder though what other airlines they could really want to move into the new terminal. flybe will have a fairly large combined operation in the terminal next year also bearing in mind any future expansion. Perhaps Lufthansa and SAS could join Star Alliance partner Swiss in T2, otherwise I can't really think of any suitable suggestions. Is there a major cost difference for airlines in using one terminal over the other? I certainly doubt we'd see bmibaby there anyway, despite us having a large poster in T2 saying something along the lines of us "now playing with the big boys" :yuk:

Unless there is an overall reduction of a/c for the combined flybe/bacon I can't see T2 being able to cope with the LH nightstops as well. I think that the increased volume for slot 1 departures would be more than the central search area could take and I'm not sure NCP could cope with the increased bussing requirement either.:(

chrism20

11th Dec 2006, 20:57

According to this http://www.nextgenerationairline.com/pdf/night_stop_programme_jan_mar2.pdf

there will be 6 BAcon a/c nightstopping plus whatever Flybe currently have assumably

And according to this
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com/pdf/night_stop_programme_apr07_2.pdf

there will be 10 of the new combined fleet

bmibaby.com

12th Dec 2006, 10:00

With a potential ten based flybe aircraft, as well as their aircraft that fly in from other bases, bmibaby's eight based aircraft with a potential of ten by the end of the year, and Monarch's four A321s, hopefully 2007 will be a good year for BHX.

OltonPete

12th Dec 2006, 16:12

Chrism20

Cheers for the link - absolutely stunned at the number of 145's at Oct 07.

If as stated before there is this 6 or 12 million sweetener then it sure is going to be needed if the fare structure is going to be that of flybe's.

I trust the five based will be Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Paris, Frankfurt and Paris?

bmibaby

Jury is still out on 2007, but all the ZB and baby gains could be wiped by the bacon/flybe merger plus some IT reductions (one Sanford etc etc)

Also it might depend on this other rumour of Budapest, Venice for baby, do you know if this is likely?

I had a good comparison yesterday between Baby and flybe on a day trip to Edinburgh.

Aircraft wise a draw, the Dash 8 was nice and smooth even as we went through a rain shower on finals at EDI. G-BVZG on the way home was great as well but a little bit less legroom.

However everything else baby trounced flybe. Web online check-in on baby was great, I could choose my seat and no in your face threats of £10 penalty if crumpled my boarding pass.

Flybe allocated my seat with no option to change and although second to check-in we got 11A/B over the wheels, which meant one of us could not put there feet out straight and there was no window. I trust this rim does not run along the whole of the aircraft for window seats?

G-JECO also went tech on arrival, it was already 25 late on
stand with no explanation. The Glasgow out at the same time
was cancelled!!!!!

We left an hour late (BE282) but the flight was good but
the landing extremely hard.

Baby closed the doors 5 late, airborne 10 minutes later
from EDI and arrived BHX 10 early. The bags were on
the belt at scheduled time of arrival :ok: 22.40

Well done baby and BHX for having the bus ready as
we arrived on an International stand - 54!!!!

Pete

Fried_Chicken

12th Dec 2006, 19:27

The Sunair/BA Billund flight was again cancelled tonight. Is this down to crew/aircraft shortages or lack of pax? If it was the latter, maybe introducing a morning flight (similar to Manchester) would be benficial.

Well done to baby tonight. The evening Belfast flight was running late outbound so BMI5605, the East Mids - Aldergrove flight has tonight operated EMA-BHX-BFS to pick up the Brum passengers. However, unless some pax got transferred to FlyBE, there must be quite a few empty seats on the aircraft to accomadate the additional pax.

Fried Chicken

OltonPete

12th Dec 2006, 19:46

FC

I do not want to sound too grim but I wouldn't be too surprised if
both flights got on to one on a Tuesday night.

I also was wondering what happened to flybe GLA pax yesterday
morning. Non seemed to be on our flights and if there were there
was certainly no offer of onward transportation from EDI to GLA.

Pete

OltonPete

12th Dec 2006, 19:53

Birmingham Airport have reported: -

"Birmingham International Airport (BIA) handled 596,721 passengers during November, including 499,805 scheduled passengers and 96,916 charter passengers spread across the two passenger terminals, resulting in an increase of 2% over the previous year.
For further details, and to read the press release, please click the link to the right of this page."

So much for my 620000, I remain in the dunces corner for another
month :(. I used to quite good at this but I seem to now
be far too optimistic.

Here's to December, it should be up as well but I might have to
downgrade my estimate when I have found what I have done with it!

Pete

TeaAnyone21

12th Dec 2006, 20:30

Chrism20

Flybe allocated my seat with no option to change and although second to check-in we got 11A/B over the wheels, which meant one of us could not put there feet out straight and there was no window. I trust this rim does not run along the whole of the aircraft for window seats?

Sorry you were not happy with Flybe just for your info though....

On the Q400 the wheels are not retracted into the fuselage so not reaaly seated over the wheels. The rim does run down the length of the cabin but I am confused about what other aircraft you are able to fully put your feet out on when in a window seat?

I will agree with the landings though!

OltonPete

12th Dec 2006, 22:09

TeaAnyone21

Dunces corner again for me re the undercarriage :ugh: - sorry

It was my friend who first mentioned this as he was sitting in the
window seat and it looked far more noticeable than any other
airliner we have been on (30 plus types).

I sat by the window on the 735 on the way home and it was fine
and certainly not as noticeable as the DASH 8.

As for flybe/baby, it certainly was good to fly both on the
same day and as I say aircraft wise there was little to choose
and don't ask me why but I always feel safer on a turboprop!

The girls worked hard on the flybe but I suppose the tech delay
on a new aircraft probably just highlighted the differences on the day.

Personally can't wait to fly on the Dash 8 again just wish
they could get over these tech problems.

I was on the 08.45 and it was 85-90% business and
although some were annoyed, the aircraft seemed to be
well received and non of the usual "did this fly in war"
comments - people seemed more concerned at missing
meetings etc.

Pete

jongeman

13th Dec 2006, 00:33

and don't ask me why but I always feel safer on a turboprop!

I've never really thought about that before......I feel pretty safe on 757s but it's probably because they look like they can fly....and you can definitely feel that they're a bit over-powered.:)

bmibabyfc

15th Dec 2006, 05:55

Hi All

just thought id say hello from the maldives (on honeymoon - yes bmibabyfc is allowed time off work!!)

flew with emirates to DXB and would just like to say how impressed i was with them! Was kind of hoping that the flight was overbooked as the rams were playing and having not missed a match yet this season was desperate to listen to it on radio! My wish came true, offered flight next day and 2 free return tickets to DXB for trav with in a year which we took - even mrs bmibabyfc was okay - i said we should do it because she felt rough from wedding day before but really i was smirking that i could listen to the rams!!

the flight was very good and with it being my first time with EK was expecting high standards from prev travellers experiences! Rather than bore you with the details EK have something to be proud of ........

couple of questions i would like to know though, the boarding was very slow and we pushed late, do they have a kind of 'on the dot' performance ?? would like to know as the flight to Male was delayed too ......... with baby we have to put any delay down and the reason, just wondered if EK have the same policy ?

also i hate BHX to a degree as you cant smoke, when i travel on the football charters i always have to leave it late before going through security and this occasion was no different!! what do the BHX guys think of this ?

anyway back to the sun lounger in the ocean .....

regards as ever

bmibabyfc

dublinamg

15th Dec 2006, 13:57

From next year there'll be no smoking in any airport in the UK anyway, will there?

At Dublin there are always loads of pax hanging outside having their cigarettes before going through boarding - quite sheltered too.

There was a bit of a kick up over here a while ago about some sort of smoking area they have put on the airside. It was in the paper that it was put in for the American soldiers going through Shannon to/from Iraq and elsewhere! Presume it's still there.

I remember being in Washington airport just over 3 years ago and waiting for another flight. Eventhough the airport was non-smoking there was a big smoking room beside one of the bars and you could have a cigarette there eventhough I was too young to drink over there.

GayFriendly

17th Dec 2006, 12:45

According to another site, KTHY are to start a weekly scheduled service from BHX to Ercan in N Cyprus via Dalaman from May 07 - nothing on their website about it and can't find any other info - anybody got any hard facts or is it a rumour gone mad??!!

Good news about Nov pax figures :D 2007 just has to be better for BHX (although the BE/BACON situation no doubt will leave us holding our breath for a while longer yet!)

OltonPete

17th Dec 2006, 13:40

GayFriendly

Yes, going in the right direction and December should be the same, January would have been up as well but flybe might wipe that out.

Also 1.8% up was quite mediocre, with far too many empty seats but
at least long-haul was decent with Conti averaging 156 a flight, EK
206 a flight, PK over 170 per flight and I think Cancun and GOA was
up as well.

There were also some shockers such as Paris (nearly 4000 down) &
Copenhagen 2000. Both routes suffered equipment downgrades
from last winter (BA Paris now only one RJ100 compared to three
and one SAS DH8/MD compared to two MD's)

There were also a lot of small decreases between 0-500 pax.

Not heard the one about KTHY.

Pete

Fried_Chicken

18th Dec 2006, 20:50

I see a couple of Wizz flights diverted into Brum this morning despite them shortly opening routes to Coventry. A shame Brum couldn't have got these routes, I presume Wizz did approach Brum but at the end of the day, Coventry tabled a better deal?

FC

GayFriendly

18th Dec 2006, 21:40

I'm not sure that BHX were probably even aware that Wizz were looking to start flights from the Midlands given the minimal interest (until VERY recently) of the BHX Marketing teams interest in lo-co - and thats only cos they have to be now, given that their hallowed BA/BACON are about to vacate the premises. Sorry to be cynical but I just don't think BHX is anywhere near its potential route development wise, there have been some major opportunities missed. If BHX were approached by Wizz and couldn't offer them a deal based on the fact that they have the future potential to develop an East European network so badly needed at BHX (look at the routes they offer from LPL, BFS and DSA) then that really says it all :ugh: Good luck to them at CVT!

OltonPete

18th Dec 2006, 22:41

I have just posted on the Shannon thread that AA are showing a
Chicago - Shannon 757 route for next summer and does anybody
think that this is potential route for BHX with a 757.

I know they have dropped it once but both the airport and local
council have tried to persuade AA to come back on the route.

I trust that any problems would be westbound due to the
prevailing winds.

Any 757 drivers out there, is this logistically possible from BHX?

I think AA have the 757 in 189 all coach layout.

Pete

akerosid

19th Dec 2006, 20:41

I think AA uses the same aircraft - albeit ET models - as on domestic routes; these have F Class seats, which are assigned to AA's frequent flyer pax.

Incidentally, I'm flying to BHX on Saturday and the weather forecast doesn't look good; does BHX have Cat II/III and if so, are the Flybe Dash 8s equipped for Cat II/III? Visibility forecast is showing as "very poor".

Fried_Chicken

19th Dec 2006, 21:26

Brum does have CAT III but not sure about the Flybe Dash Late's, the majority have diverted away from Birmingham tonight due to the fog

FC

OltonPete

19th Dec 2006, 22:09

Akerosid

I am sure they are CAT11 and plenty of CAT 111 landings this evening.

Pete

TeaAnyone21

19th Dec 2006, 23:12

i was canx on flybe this evening from what i know the a/c are fine with it but problem can be the crew. just what i hear mind.

splash&dash

20th Dec 2006, 21:05

Airport, Aircraft and BOTH Flightcrew need to be CATIII compliant and trained to enable a CATIII landing.

Turkish Cyprus Airways are supposed to be operating flights to northern Cyprus next summer. Also Aer Arran starting a BHX - Waterford service too according to sneak look at a BHX newsletter.

Planning application for runway extension expected early next year. at last!!:D

Buster the Bear

21st Dec 2006, 19:01

Flybe to scrap Spanish flights from Birmingham Airport
21.12.06

Regional budget airline Flybe is set to axe all its flights from Birmingham Airport to Spain in early January, flightmapping.com reports. The airline will cancel its flights Alicante and Malaga on January 7 and 8 respectively.

The airline is pulling out of a heavily saturated market, where they face competition from airlines including BmiBaby, Monarch Scheduled and Thomsonfly, as well as traditional charter operators. There has been no comment from Flybe over the future of flights from Birmingham to Madrid and Barcelona currently operated by BA Connect. Flybe is due to take over BA Connect early next year.

OltonPete

21st Dec 2006, 19:56

Buster

Whether this would have happened if the Bacon takeover was not
proposed I do not know but it all seems logical if aircraft are going
to be tight during 2007.

BCN and MAD are both RJ100's and if the takeover goes ahead they
will not have any (only there own 146's). This leaves them with a
choice of the 195 (by pulling it off the AGP/ALC), dropping the
routes, use the 145 or find a 146 (non planned for BHX April+).

Although it is unlikely that they will get any more sectors out of the
195 initially they will go with it on the Madrid or a mix MAD or BCN
(BCN only ops 4 days a week in winter). Possibly they will then
drop BCN in April (Baby start) and perhaps run the Madrid daily
as a 195 in between the morning & evening Glasgow's.

Much as it is frustrating to lose any flight this actually seems
to a good way of juggling the BHX fleet.

The only problem with January is that Monarch have (the last
time I looked) cut the BHX - AGP to 3 a week from 5 and
Alicante to 2. They both revert to the original timetable for
the February school holidays.

I actually e-mailed Monarch to ask them if they intend to re-instate
the axed frequencies and I just got a stock reply "we have passed
your comments to the appropriate team".
Pete

-BHXboy-

22nd Dec 2006, 19:53

From the aer Arran thread;

''As of 10:00am Dec 22, Cardiff, Bristol, Birmingham and London City airports are closed. ''

Please can I qualify - At no point today has BHX been closed completely to inbound traffic. Aircraft have landed throughout the day however some aircraft unfortunately may have diverted due to their own low visibility capabilities; an issue with the aircraft operated, not the airfield infrastucture. BHX has infact taken many diversions from both Cardiff and Bristol.

-BHXboy-

OltonPete

23rd Dec 2006, 09:20

Does anyone know if flybe managed to off load their pax on to
other operators?

They managed to get none of their flights out last night from BHX despite RVR's in excess of 1500, stating I believe crew duty hours.

The most annoying was BE411 which was late but the crew
were ready to give return figures to Belfast and they were
told to stand-down. It could well be that the pax for the
BE414 and 416 were transferred to Baby but this would be
a surprise if there were many spare seats on a Friday evening.

I trust the aircraft was required in BHX this morning and did
not want to get it stranded in BHD overnight? Still very harsh
on the pax if they were sent home when there was an operating
crew for the flight.

Pete

FlyboyUK

23rd Dec 2006, 09:39

And here's what it looked like from up front going into BHX on Thursday night with an RVR of 300m

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B5v8UOKAso

OltonPete

23rd Dec 2006, 10:05

FlyboyUK

Fantastic!

Also a good timely reminder why you (some of you) get paid so much!

I heard the approaching decision height at around 200 ft, what is it on a 145? The time elapse between that warning and seeing the lights was
so short :eek: .

A good few days for BA at BHX with so few diverts, is it the same minima's
for Dash 8's carrying out CAT 2's?

I assume the 195's are CAT 3?

Pete

steviefartpants

23rd Dec 2006, 10:48

I see the dead passenger shoved in the air india b777 bulk cargo bay the other day has now made it into the local evening mail.Nice little story from AI,near to the truth but lacking they wanted the next crew to fly it to yyz with no paperwork because no one wanted to take the body off at bhx.:oh:

Dead man gives airport staff a shock Dec 24 2006

By Leda Reynolds, Birmingham Mail
A PILOT at Birmingham International Airport was brought down to earth with a bump - after forgetting there was a dead man on board his plane.
Baggage handlers at Birmingham Airport got more than they bargained for when they unloaded suitcases and boxes from the plane - and found the body of an elderly man.
The man died of a suspected heart attack while on a flight from Delhi to Birmingham.
The Air India Boeing 777 made an emergency landing at Bucharest where the man was pronounced dead and, rather than leave him sitting among the hundreds of passengers, the pilot ordered his body be stashed in the hold before the plane took off again.
However, the Russian pilot forgot about the man and once the passengers had filed off the plane in Birmingham, he and his crew followed, travelling to a nearby hotel.

As passengers waited in the airport's lounge for their luggage, baggage handlers were shocked to see a plastic casket, containing the dead man, who is from Bradford, nestling in the hold together with hundreds of suitcases.

Now the 56-year-old pilot from Moscow has been temporarily grounded after being quizzed by police following the incident on Thursday.

Officers arrived to arrest the pilot on suspicion of causing a public nuisance by forgetting about the body.

A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said the pilot was arrested at around 9.30pm.

"He was arrested and questioned but later released without charge and no further action will be taken," she said.

Kurapati Row, regional manager for Air India, said the dead man was in his 80s.

"There was some surprise among the baggage handlers as there was not enough time to inform everyone about the body, but we had spoken to their supervisors who were aware of what had happened," said Mr Row. "The pilot did get off the aircraft. There were some language difficulties and he was not aware he would be needed.

"There were some difficulties contacting him and the police later spoke to him also. He will be speaking to our staff in Bombay but will not be reprimanded."

FlyboyUK

23rd Dec 2006, 10:48

Olton Pete

Glad you enjoyed the clip, thought you ground based guys might like to see that we do have to work sometimes! :}

The CAT II decision height on both ends at BHX is 100 feet radio altitude (when you hear the minimums call), so yes it was pretty close when we got the lights. Once the decision to land is made, I take control from the f/o (monitored approach procedure) the autopilot is taken out at 80 feet and a manual landing carried out as there is no autoland on the 145. I think I've been very lucky over the last few days, having got in on every approach.

Not sure about the Dash 8's but I would have thought they would also be CATII. But it does depend on the company approval, aircraft serviceability and crew training.
As for the 195 I would expect that until it has been in service for a while it won't be approved for CATIII (presuming it has been designed as CATIII capable) as it will need to prove itself as reliable for those conditions as well as the crew getting experience on it. I remember when we first started operating the RJ's we could only do CATIIIA approaches until the company and crews had a certain level of experience on the type. Later on the company was approved for CATIIIB on the RJ.

Merry Christmas:ok:

Giddy

28th Dec 2006, 22:25

Anyone know any more about the possible sale of shareholding by one or more of the BHX shareholders? Apparently there were quite a few bean counters carrying out a due diligence in Diamond House before Xmas? I suspect 2007 is going to be as eventful and interesting as 2006 for BHX, hopefully in a more positive light!

OltonPete

4th Jan 2007, 19:55

Mentioned on another forum - website not available to view.

Is this routine maintenance, re-vamp or..........:eek:

OP

bhx runway15

5th Jan 2007, 14:46

The new low cost airline will be called Airasia Express.
AirAsia X plans to launch in July with services from Kuala Lumpur to
Tianjin and Hangzhou in China and from Kuala Lumpur to the UK, says
Fernandes.

He says the Malaysian government has granted AirAsia X traffic rights
to Birmingham and Manchester, and that it was looking at granting
rights to London. The government has ruled-out London Heathrow and
London Gatwick, but industry sources say AirAsia is likely to get
London Stansted.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news

Fried_Chicken

7th Jan 2007, 18:44

I see several airlines have moved their Bristol ops to Birmingham over the last couple of days. This should push Jan's passenger figure up although BHX haven't had the Saudi Hadj flights like last year (which obviously increased the Jan'06 pax figure).

Presumably with the extra flights due to the problems at Bristol, Jan 07 should see a (small) increase in passenger numbers to last year but it would be interesting to know if there would be an increase had these additional flights not happened

Fried Chicken

OltonPete

7th Jan 2007, 21:23

FC

I think Jan 2006 was 564000 and my estimate for Jan 2007 was about
570000-575000.

Based on the flights that are expected to operate, 575000 is very
average. Again another guess but I believe that the Bristol flights
have added 3-5000 thus far.

It is pretty easy to estimate the TOM, FCA & TCK but I am not sure
how many BA have coached back and forth from consolidated BHX
flights such as EDI, GLA, MXP, DUS & FRA.

Still, it could make 600000 this month but again it would not be that
impressive compared to the number of flights. I have constantly
over-estimated for about a year now & I would be surprised to
see 600000 breached but fingers crossed.

Also from tomorrow, Monarch have chopped at least one flight from every route this month (except the weekly ACE) until the February half-term. Add in the fact that flybe are pulling off Malaga and Alicante from this week it will be a tough month but it still should be up with EK, GM, T5, AI (mainly transits) and even W5 pulling in some good pax figures this week.

OP

Ringwayman

7th Jan 2007, 21:47

Sorry to be the bearer of "bad news" but I'm 99% certain that those coached passengers will still be counted as BRS passengers and not as BHX passengers as the CAA normally allocates passengers on diverted services back to the airport which they should have flown to/from.

Mind you, if they can combine BHX and BRS passengers on to a single BHX service, it does suggest that one airport or the other must have some quite low loads on BACon services?

OltonPete

8th Jan 2007, 17:29

Ringwayman

I think somebody posted a similar explanation after the BHX TNT incident.
It was stated that the pax would be added back to BHX!

Did you see BHX's June figures, if these included the the diverted pax :eek:

The only aspect I do not understand is why do the figures sometimes
appear in the individual route analysis? I know they have done,
as I have seen non-BHX destinations after Ryanair diverts.

I also said in my post that Monarch reduce their services from today
for a month but I was a week early, it is next Monday.

OP

OltonPete

9th Jan 2007, 18:40

Up a grand 1.7% to 574237.

This makes 2006 just under 9.15 million or 2.5% down :{

OP

Fried_Chicken

9th Jan 2007, 22:43

Anybody know anything about Alajnihah Airlines. On their website, it shows Birmingham (& Manchester) being linked to Tripoli with an A321 service. (possibly leased from a Turkish carrier, hence the Istanbul link?)

Fried Chicken

OltonPete

11th Jan 2007, 18:25

Although the rumour had long gone very quiet in respect of BHX, it has been reported on another site (translated from Arabic) that the new routes to be announced are likely to be: -

Washington
Stockholm
Warsaw
Geneva

Per another post, a 4th UK destination has been delayed (rumours that it
was GLA) although some believe that BHX was in the frame after ABTN's
little annoucement last year (or was it 2005?).

OP

Giddy

15th Jan 2007, 09:01

The news is that Macquarie and Aer Rianta have offered their shareholding for sale (48.25%) on a joint basis. Apparently the 7 West Mids councils (49%) are staying put.

call100

15th Jan 2007, 11:09

I agree that in recent years BA has held back BHX in as much as the BHX mangement have always relied on its presence. However, it shows the calibre of management when they didn't really do any planning for its demise.
They keep putting off the decisions about the international pier rebuild. They are delaying the runway extension planning applications. This is vital to the airports growth and they can't even get that right.
They are preparing to offload more of the staff. They started with the Fire service. Offloaded to SERCO under the guise of a joint venture company.
The rumours of a sell off by the shareholders are not doing the place much good either.
I would say that it was acting more like a small regional airport than the second city gateway it should be. However, small regional airports are beginning to catch up and will be overtaking before long.
I don't think more LC ops are the answer. Low cost only give you pax numbers. The Pax have to shop to make the airport money these days. LC pax tend not to, so Pax numbers are not the holy grail they once were.
The next 18 months may turn out to be very interesting if the rumours of changes in ownership pan out as true.

call100

15th Jan 2007, 11:12

The news is that Macquarie and Aer Rianta have offered their shareholding for sale (48.25%) on a joint basis. Apparently the 7 West Mids councils (49%) are staying put.
Well thats not surprising I suppose. The councils reap rewards with no input or cost. They do whatever the other partners tell them to do. So it's win win for them.

AMM626

15th Jan 2007, 14:02

They've had BHX as the 4th most expensive airport in the WORLD, and the MOST expensive in Europe, so they must have made a substantial amount of money considering that since T2 (Eurohub) opened there has only been minimal spending on infrastructure. Now the crunch time has come and investment is inevitable (even if it is 15 odd years overdue) they want out, leaving a huge cash injection needed by any potential buyer.

Call100 is correct, the calibre of management at BHX has always seemed very poor, but have they had thier hands tied by the owners? AA were once BHX's flagship carrier, yet when they pulled out nobody seemed to be bothered as there was still CO there:ugh: , long haul charter has been in massive decline with only a pathetic gesture by TOM left (for now), other 'full service' carriers have been and gone AZ,OK etc but absolubtly nothing from BHX except one pathetic excuse after another as to why pax numbers were down :ugh:

What BHX needs is new owners/management with ambition, vision, forsight, enough balls to stand up to the local nimby's and most of all deep pockets, as all those missed opportunities over the last 20 odd years are really holding BHX back, and it will always be playing catch up:( :(

AMM626

15th Jan 2007, 14:07

Birmingham International Airport (BIA) today paid tribute to the
significant development of the Airport since Aer Rianta International
obtained a shareholding in 1997 and Macquarie Airports Group obtained
a shareholding in 2002.

BIA also acknowledged the continuing commitment of the seven West
Midland District Councils, the Airports main shareholders, to ensure
that BIA continues to play a fundamental role in the economic success
of the Region.

Back in 1996 there were just 5.4 million passengers travelling
through BIA – compared with 9.4 million in 2005. Such tremendous
growth has only been achieved through all the shareholders working in
partnership to deliver a comprehensive investment and improvement
programme, which has provided BIA with the additional capacity and
facilities demanded by the region.

More than £250M has been invested in the sustainable development of
BIA over the last decade, despite a variety of global shocks – and
this massive vote of confidence has ensured that the region can
continue to compete on the World stage.

BIA's Managing Director, Richard Heard, said: "Under the current
public/private partnership shareholding arrangements, Birmingham
International Airport has grown and developed in stature tremendously
over the last ten years. The Airport now directly supports some
11,000 jobs and directly contributes over £200m per annum to the
Midlands economy. Beyond those direct impacts, our role in providing
the international connectivity to support other businesses, inward
investment and regeneration is even more significant. All that has
been achieved in a sustainable manner, with some of the strictest
environmental policies of any airport in the UK.
The Airport Company looks forward to the development of new
shareholding arrangements with the active involvement of the District
Councils, but otherwise, it is very much `business as usual' as the
Company remains committed to providing the outstanding international
airport and network of international connections that the region
wants and deserves."

AMM626

16th Jan 2007, 12:53

There was an interview with a member of Birmingham Chamber of Commerce on local radio today and he was putting forward the case of full control being taken by the local councils again, and trying his best to sound positive.

The general assumtion was, that BHX is in desperate need of major investment, for which the investor would have to wait a considerable amount of time before seeing any return. This is putting potential private buyers off as they are not interested in runway and terminal extensions "because the region needs and deserves them" but would only invest to see a return. I think the runway extension was quoted at around £125 million and basically, if the councils take ownership, it will be the local taxpayer who foots the bill.

On a side issue, if the new buyer is not willing to invest the money needed then it could mean that BHX's masterplan is pretty much out of the window. Even if the local councils take control it's difficult to see them funding the runway extension, the A45 diversion/tunnel, the new piers, ATC tower and new taxiways that are mentioned in the plans, let alone a new terminal and new runway.

So many missed opportunities over the years and now they could finally be coming back to kick BHX up the ar$e, if it wasn't my local airport it'd be comical :(:(:(

jmc757

16th Jan 2007, 15:11

Even if the local councils take control it's difficult to see them funding the runway extension, the A45 diversion/tunnel, the new piers, ATC tower and new taxiways that are mentioned in the plans, let alone a new terminal and new runway.

I ageree. I can't see the masses of the West Midlands population being hapy with £125+ million of their taxes being spent to extend an airport. Airports are hot potatos anyway in local politics. It wouldn't be long before the hospitals and schools mantra came out, which would leave all concerned in a very awkward position.

Fried_Chicken

16th Jan 2007, 19:11

Have Sunair ceased the Billund flight into Birmingham? I know it usually stops over the holiday period but hasn't operated since mid-December (Manchesters Sunair flights are currently operating). I believe there were plans to go double daily on the route.

However, as the flight was quite often operated by a Jetstream rather than a Dornier as planned, i'm guessing the passenger numbers were not that good (a problem going double daily may have solved?)

Fried Chicken

OltonPete

16th Jan 2007, 19:27

FC

I had noticed that it had gone but nothing mentioned locally.

It is back in the booking engine and timetable from the 25 or 26th of Feb.

No sign of the morning flight this winter.

OP

OltonPete

16th Jan 2007, 19:31

It appears BHX has just the one flight a day this summer.

The updated CO summer 2007 timetable per other forums are showing the two "spare" 777's going to FRA & BRU, with the 764's off to MXP and GVA. The 762's then go to ATH (new route) and Dublin. Madrid gets a second daily flight as 757.

Another year maybe :( - not a good week thus far!

OP

call100

17th Jan 2007, 15:12

I think a few of the senior management are a bit worried about the possible sale. They are pushing the business as usual line a bit harder than expected. i suspect a few heads nearer the top of the tree to be dispatched should the sale go ahead.
I also suspect that the amount of investment required to make it the airport it should be would put many off.
although spouting about encouraging long haul they are busy turning everything low cost.
The business has covered everything done so far. The investors (?) have not exactly given large cash injections to fuel growth on a major scale.
Maquerie pulling out because it needs to cover activity at other airports. Not exactly a glowing reference for the potential at BHX.
The staff moral is at an all time low, even before the sell off rumors began.
All they have to look forward to is more contracting out.
The consensus of staff opinion is that they would like to see Branson buy into the business. Whether this would make a difference or not I don't know. I suspect the staff are just grasping at straws. One thread throughout conversations is that if that lot at Diamond House are first to go then at least some justice would be served.
It really is a sorry state of affairs for what should be a Premier gateway to the UK.

jabird

18th Jan 2007, 10:13

Have just been told that BHX MD Richard Heard died in a car crash this morning.

No further details atm, but sympathies to his family and colleagues at the airport. Doesn't get any easier.

call100

18th Jan 2007, 11:22

I can confirm that the Tragic news about Richard Heard is unfortunately true. Apparently a Tree branch went through the windscreen of his car.
My condolences to his family.

foxile

18th Jan 2007, 13:11

Sad details here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6273773.stm

warkman

18th Jan 2007, 19:06

Have just been told that BHX MD Richard Heard died in a car crash this morning.
No further details atm, but sympathies to his family and colleagues at the airport. Doesn't get any easier.

Yes, a branch went through his windscreen as he drove top work at 05:45 this morning.
very sad

we_never_change

21st Jan 2007, 13:27

I see Aerosvit are to axe their BHX flights for the time being, at a time when loads were improving too. I think there are now too many airlines pushing routes to Asian continent (Air India, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Air Slovakia, Mahan, Aerosvit) & thus, a saturation point has been reached.

However, Aerosvit could always advertise links to Russia & apparently, Kiev is a nice city.

WNC

OltonPete

21st Jan 2007, 14:06

WNC

S*** law, as the December CAA stats show 969 pax, which is the
best so far. This averages out around 60 per flight depending on the number of rotations they made.

Is it a suspension or termination, there seems some confusion, as it was
rumoured to come back in April just before BHX's Asian flights tail off for
a few months (May-July)?

I read on another forum that Mahan Air were set to increase their
frequencies, as the number of connections had increased to Pakistan.
The CAA stats would suggest they need something as it only
averages 80 odd most months and 120 at best.

OP

Back Home BHX

23rd Jan 2007, 19:15

The sad death of Richard Heard may well have long term implications for BHX, most notably in the growth in infrastructure planned. Apparently he was very much the driving force behind the controversial second runway proposal, and many of his senior colleagues' support for it was lukewarm to say the least.

On a shorter term basis, it looks like the security staff are set to follow the cleaners and fire fighters in being outsourced.

call100

23rd Jan 2007, 20:56

They have resisted outsourcing Security for years. However the recent rise in costs is obviously having its toll. The security structure from a staff level is ludicrous. Contracts and hours are constantly being reinvented to fit holes in the cover at the cheapest possible rate..

On another note. If the Runway is not extended then the airport will drop out of the race. They keep umming and ahhing about the International pier which looks like something straight from the old Easten block.
Unless they improve that then the likes of Emirates will pull the plug.

Low cost seems to be the continuation of short termism thats rife in the corridors of Diamond House.:ugh:

The only hope is that new owners with money and ideas beyond the present set up arrive soon. If they are not forward thinking and in for the long haul (Sorry!) Then the UK's second city will end up with a second rate airport.

Congratulations to EMA on winning best regional airport....:D

GayFriendly

23rd Jan 2007, 21:24

IMHO BHX is already a second rate airport that relies on a few heavyweight names (AI, CO, EK), is about to lose BA (the airline that had BIA management wrapped round its finger thereby stifling effective airline competition or route development) and has VERY belatedly embraced the loco market having been left behind for dust by the likes of EMA, BRS, LPL etc. Its a shambles that I fear will only get worse since the sad news about Richard Heard (who had the foresight to realise that without extra runway length BHX will go nowhere - hence the departure of FCA long haul and who knows possibly others).

I worked for BIA plc in both the terminals and in Diamond House for three yrs between 2002-2005. In terms of the staff as a whole, well I had never worked with such a bunch of great people or have since, but it terms of long term planning and market awareness, what a joke, great ideas held back by council bureaucracy, union opposition (sorry but its true) and the overriding mindset of BHX being somehow superior to all its competitors, after all we have BA, LH and AF, we don't need the like of Ryanair or those other pesky cheapo airlines, passengers won't go to EMA they'll always use us, thats right, lets just stick our heads in the sand and it'll all be OK. Well its not OK and the lack of foresight from years of ignoring the inevitable is now there for all to see. And by the way, why does BHX have a security queueing corral smaller than that of most airports that handle half the pax often leading to queues of pax back to Frankie and Bennys (and that happened regularly while I worked there so its not all to do with all the changes in security procedures)

Bagso

24th Jan 2007, 06:25

Looks like BHX has lost the proposed 3 X weekly Tripoli as well.
That Libyan airline have just announced service to Manchester from April.

CVTDog

24th Jan 2007, 11:51

Just echoing G.F's comments.

Going down to ALC the other Friday and the queue through security was all the way back around into the eating area. I just cant understand what is going on. When we travelled in late August at the height of the security restrictions it didnt seem as bad as this.

And the "new" inbound passport check process is a bizzare joke. The "improved" hall and layout is slower than before - so how is that an improvement. Only two planes in and people were queing back up the stairs - incredible !

The work in the departure lounge seems to be taking forever and whilst this is happening it is depressingly dingy while you have a cuppa before you go.

BHX COULD be the best - I firmly believe that, I just wish they would try and look at the WHOLE pax experience and try to see things differently

Rich

call100

24th Jan 2007, 21:26

I agree with GF's view to a point. However blaming the Unions for the problem does not make any sense. They have not held back the airport development at any stage. That is grossly unfair on the staff. I don't think even the Airport management have said that. Having actually read the minutes from the regular meetings, it seems that the Unions are constantly asking where the expansion is and why the start dates for some of it are being delayed.

Being familiar (lots) with Diamond House and its workings. I am sure that the company is being severely hampered by the board. The two major shareholders selling up only confirms this. The councils are just sitting tight and getting revenue for absolutely no investment. In any other business the likes of Coventry city council would have problems with conflict of interest.
It may be too late for the airport. It's going to have to play catch up. There is of course spiralling costs that go hand in hand with any delayed plans.
I know the coventry enquiry has a bearing on all this but if Cov get the go ahead then the extensions stop and where does that leave BHX????

Arbottle

24th Jan 2007, 21:41

I'm no expert on airports, but it strikes me (Looking from the outside) that it's not good for the major private stakeholder to want "out" in such a way.

And what do local authorities know about running airports? I can't see local authorities having the will (Or cash) to build infrastructure like runways and extensions to runway, especially as the costs seem to be enormous, along with the long and protracted planning battle that will take place.

This causes some conflict for Coventry Council, who also support expansion of Coventry Airport - probably moreso now, as it appears to have had some positive effects on the city.

GayFriendly

25th Jan 2007, 13:53

On reflection, I do think tarring the unions with the same brush as management was a bit harsh - sorry for any offence caused! However, I do think that some working practices could do to move with the times - which personally I think is wrong but its the way the aviation industry as a whole has gone, like it or not. I would like to re-iterate that the long suffering staff at BHX are some of the greatest colleagues I have had at work - they all want to see the Airport succeed and day in day out (away from Diamond House) have to deal with pax frustrations, which they do in a very professional manner.

In terms of development, yes I would wholeheartedly agree that BHX is very much held back by the Board, the probable departure of private investors is not good news. There is an awful lot of work to do which if started now could avoid the airport being left behind by its competitors, if not then there is no doubt that they will catch up - No longer can the board rely on new airline interest in the Midlands, be it loco, short or long haul scheduled, to be automatically targeted at BHX, as PERHAPS it would have been 10 years ago...........that shows how much things have changed..........

Back Home BHX

25th Jan 2007, 14:10

Just to clarify, my earlier post referred to doubts about backing amongst senior managers for the proposed second runway - this was something that was very much Richard Heard's aspiration. There is lots of support for the runway extension and I believe a planning application is to be submitted shortly; regardless of the CVT inquiry result.

I also believe the problems BHX faces now are very much the making of the complacent regime that existed before Richard Heard's time as MD, they saw year on year of very good growth and thought it would last forever.

call100

25th Jan 2007, 22:16

Hi GF
Nice to see you are big enough to reconsider. I will read your posts with a little more respect in future...:)
The Unions know that reduced costs are needed in the modern aviation world. They negotiated market based pay with the company. Since then they have used it to drive down pay on Security. Contract out the cleaning and most recently they have off loaded the Fire Service. There are more changes being discussed at the moment. The last pay agreement was done over a three year period, giving the Airport stability and fixed costs. The company never ever recognises positive moves.
The anti union stance of the current HR regime is causing problems and having an effect on moral.
Many managers are afraid to speak up because of the regime. I let my Union membership lapse because I began to believe the hype. I have now renewed it because they have even started getting at people in diamond house. Unlike many of the others I sought out Union reps and talked to them before making a decision. I was pleasantly surprised by how informed they were, how supportive and proud of the Airport they are. They quickly and correctly identify exactly where the problems lay.
I no longer join in the organised Union bashing rife among peers.

Todays News that the Councils are considering buying back the shares....I don't know if this is a good or bad idea. I am going to think long and hard about this. So far I am leaning toward 'Bad Idea'. But I am open to being conviced otherwise.

call100

25th Jan 2007, 22:22

Back Home BHX

Business wise Richard Heard was probably the best MD so far. I do believe he took his eye off the ball as far as the staff are concerned and let the company HR convince him that all was well. He had recently recognised that but alas was not given the time to change anything.
I agree with the rest of your assessment.

Back Home BHX

26th Jan 2007, 19:25

call100

I just can't see where the councils will get the money from. Certainly not the likes of Sandwell, Walsall, and Dudley.

Unfortunately, the unions at BHX were badly damaged by the episode in 2005 over the two MASU workers. It was a huge PR coup for the BHX Management as they were vindicated at every stage in the saga - and I suspect union strength at BHX was sapped because of it.

BHX Management, in particular the HR Management, have all too often mistaken staff loyalty and pride towards the AIRPORT for pride and loyalty towards the COMPANY. No one is more frustrated by the lack of progress at BHX than the staff who work there:ugh:

call100

27th Jan 2007, 22:56

Back Home BHX

Yep! Spot on.
I won't dwell on the dispute as its well past its sell by date. Suffice to say that all was not as it seemed. A lot of skullduggery went on in Diamond house.
You are right about the staff. On a daily basis they work hard to keep things going and have a pride in the place. However the Company is thought of with contempt.
Coventry council can be added to that list. If The councils bought the Airport back I don't think they would be capable of running it. A company would have to come in to run it for them. Thats just someone else creaming off the top.
It needs sorting very quickly to give the airport some stability and enable it to move forward. It requires major investment by whoever owns it in the future.
It can be world class, but a change is needed from the top. It needs to be run by someone who knows about airports and airlines. Diamond house needs a good clear out. Lets hope!!!!

EastMids

28th Jan 2007, 20:34

And the "new" inbound passport check process is a bizzare joke. The "improved" hall and layout is slower than before - so how is that an improvement. Only two planes in and people were queing back up the stairs - incredible!
Enroll in IRIS then - arrived BHX last Thursday evening at a busy period and whilst the queues were almost as you describe I was through in 30 seconds, with no one waiting to use the booth!

Andy

call100

29th Jan 2007, 17:58

Well as expected they announced that they were putting out the Airfield security to tender..Just another nail in the coffin.:sad:
They intend to keep the Lounge security in house. How long that will last remains to be seen.:suspect:

MarkBHX

29th Jan 2007, 18:03

On a slightly happier note, board approval has been secured for the Planning Application of a 400m extension to the runway!:D

OltonPete

29th Jan 2007, 18:14

:) :) :)

Any specifics of how is it to be financed, as a humble Council Tax payer
of the Borough of Solihull.

Not that I care that much for this project - just get it done.

OP

AMM626

29th Jan 2007, 18:58

Excellent news and not before time, lets hope the planning application goes in soon and there's not too much grief with it :}

Possibly even more good news, BHX is now in the drop down section on the Alajnihah website, 3 times weekly from mid-Feb, fingers crossed eh:ok:

OltonPete

29th Jan 2007, 19:05

A planning application to Solihull MBC on Thursday would be a good tribute
but I suppose things don't work that quickly in the real world?

A press release has been added to the BHX website on the same day as
Richard Heard's funeral details.

OP

warwicks

29th Jan 2007, 19:09

I was wondering if anybody knew anything about the amount of time it takes from planning application to work actually beginning on something like an airport runway expansion.

Working for an airline I would be excited to see the runway expansion go ahead as it may mean that we would offer more long haul destinations- as at the moment it is not possible due to weight/ load issues

Back Home BHX

29th Jan 2007, 19:42

The length of time should be detailed in the Draft Master Plan but I suppose it would be well into 2008 and possibly beyond before any work began. That is assuming they find the money. :confused:

Yes, as I mentioned the other day, the outsourcing of security has begun - airfield to begin with. This will not be the last part either:{ I wonder if they have ever considered outsourcing the strategic management of BIA?:ugh:

In fairness I do believe that some of the extravagances of senior management and marketing have been cut back in recent years - no VIP junket in the Millennium Link last year, no Xmas parties (always a good opportunity to abuse the old MD:E ) and no sponsorship of distant rugby teams. So they are learning I suppose, though someone told me the glossy annual report cost the same as a couple of security staff :mad: - a case of "do as I say, not as I do?"

almost legal

29th Jan 2007, 20:21

Re runway extension - am trying to do the maths. In the BHX ' Towards 2030 ' info, the main runway is given as 2,605 metres and under ' Development Proposals ' there would be a 400 metre extension together with a 150 metre starter strip. So the new length would be 3,155 metres or 10,351 feet in real money. Is that about right ?

call100

30th Jan 2007, 11:34

The Runway extension is hoped to be completed by the Olympics 2012.

AMM626

30th Jan 2007, 21:11

Is anybody aware of what is going to happen with the international pier? Last I heard it was 'on hold' again due to finances. It's great putting in the runway extension, but where are all these new long haul aircraft going to park? If they're scraping to get the funds for the extension of the runway then maybe the pier will stay as it is for a while yet?:hmm:

bazzab68

2nd Feb 2007, 18:28

Swissport this evening have banged another a/c. LX425- HBIXF. Flight now cancelled. Congratulations!!! some clag nut has ploughed into the rear aileron with a freight wagon. Oh well only consolation is it is the first one this year.

MarkBHX

5th Feb 2007, 17:19

Was there an American 777 diversion in today? BHX departure board shows AA123 to Chicago departing at 15:30!

OltonPete

5th Feb 2007, 18:04

MarkBHX

Nothing in the movements.

Spring fare is on and in the past it has brought in quite a bit of traffic
but very little today.

Sort of highlight was another flybe delivery, the second in a week.
I think it was their 29th Dash 8 "CU"!

It is one area where BHX is doing well with possibly more this month.

OP

Fried_Chicken

5th Feb 2007, 20:30

With various airlines such as Jet Airways, Air India, Turkmenistan etc using BHX as a tech stop for its delivery flights, I presume the landing charges aren't as high as people make them out to be?

If they really were one of the most expensive in the World, I presume airlines would take these delivery flights to an airport which is much cheaper as obviously, with them being empty, the airline isn't making any money on them.

FC

legalize

6th Feb 2007, 23:41

Obviously Swissport being the biggest and best handling agent on the airport will hit a/c now and again. When you consider how many movements they have a day its hard not to have an accident now and again.

bazzab68

7th Feb 2007, 07:40

legalize--- now that is surely not the point.:ugh: However big an operation is, you should have the correct training procedures in place so accidents as ridiculous as this do not happen. As regards swissport being the biggest, I beleive on movements they are level with aviance, biggest in terms of insurance premium yes. A safe operation is no accident...

jmc757

7th Feb 2007, 10:04

Not often I'd post regarding handling agent arguments... but I agree with bazza. Would the same logic apply if easyjet or ryanair crashed a 737 every now and again? Well they are big operations with so many movements, so its bound to happen now and again? I think not.

Swissport have a job to do, and they should do that job safely, it the game they're in I'm afraid.

rubber jonny

7th Feb 2007, 14:08

legalize----Here we go again!!!
Another day, another aircraft, another excuse,same old cr#p from you!!!

jethro15

7th Feb 2007, 14:18

legalize
Obviously Swissport being the biggest and best handling agent on the airport will hit a/c now and again.
What a totally bizarre statement. :ugh: Just hope they never legalise whatever it is that you're on!

ManchesterMan

7th Feb 2007, 14:46

Legalize

I agree with you that they are the biggest and best
..............at hitting aircraft and causing inconvenience
to hundreds (?) of passengers.

Thank goodness for Swissport - what would we do
without them!

MM

groundhogbhx

7th Feb 2007, 20:03

FC
The reason Turkmenistan postion aircraft through BHX is because their crew rest facility is just down the road, plus it is their biggest station in the UK. I would imagine Air India use it as it is their only base outside LHR, and who would want to use that place unless there was a good commercial reason to:(

OltonPete

7th Feb 2007, 21:00

Whilst on the subject - another new Jet 738 is on the deck now!

Any reason for them to use BHX other than they have got themselves
a good deal?

OP

OltonPete

7th Feb 2007, 22:24

The first is on the bbc website and quite tragic. Cancun - BHX was
diverted after two pax became ill and one of them in fact died (drugs
suspected per the news article). This was Monday night going into Tuesday morning.

The other was 763 "YI" and a bird strike apparently, I think it was on approach rather than departure. It was on runway 06 behind the TNT 737 when I drove past tonight, apparently doing engine runs.

OP

finding_nema

8th Feb 2007, 11:39

Can anybody give me any details about which handling agents handle which airlines at BHX, as well as information about what the different companies are like to work for and their reputations? I'm putting in applications for three (Swissport, Servisair and aviance) for passenger services and would really appreciate any feedback, knowledge, titbits of information either through the forum or private message. Thank you all.

FN, you have asked rather 'wide' questions here. Suggest you have a good read of this thread and its predecessors.

PPRuNers wishing to respond to the questions please do so by PM.

Fried_Chicken

9th Feb 2007, 13:03

I see BHX accepted two Brsitol diverts this morning, namely a KLM Fokker100 & a SN Brussels BAe146. A Ryanair B737-800 also made a request to divert from Bristol (flight RYR502) but was turned away & told to try East Midlands.

Are Ryanair handled by a different company to KLM (BA handles SNB I think?).

Presumably not enough staff or unable to get hold of any buses was the reason to decline this one divert?

FC

legalize

9th Feb 2007, 18:40

Swissport will have more movements than Aviance once they sign the "BACON/FLYBE" deal.

Also I hear they now have a new station manager who is one of the best in the business (and this is according to the MD at manchester airport who is a good friend of mine).

MAN777

9th Feb 2007, 21:25

I heard the reason the Jet airways and other indian carriers taking delivery of 737s through BHX is down simply to the delivery pilot has relatives in Birmingham !

Bagso

10th Feb 2007, 07:06

Did BHX get any decent Diversions on THU following snow at LGW, STN, LTN

Just curious where everything went !

Ian Brooks

10th Feb 2007, 09:48

Don`t think so as they all came to Manchester

Ian

ATNotts

10th Feb 2007, 11:07

Just curious - what counts as a "decent diversion"? Is it one that caused minimal inconvenience, and creasted maximum profit - or perhaps, in the context of the question, a "good reggie".

Ian Brooks

10th Feb 2007, 11:32

Twice as good as half decent
on that note I think will go and put my coat on

Ian

TeaAnyone21

10th Feb 2007, 15:30

i think BHX had their own issues with the snow to be accepting diversions.

Fried_Chicken

10th Feb 2007, 19:06

Birmingham was itself closed due to the snow on Thursday morning so couldn't accept any diverts.

However, the snow clearance was promptly done & the Airport reopened around 1.5 hours later

FC

call100

10th Feb 2007, 22:25

As a matter of interest..The Airport company will accept all diversions that it can handle. The only reasons for turning them away are Lack of Stands/parking areas. However handling agents reject them due usually to lack of staff/equipment.

finding_nema

11th Feb 2007, 13:36

As mentioned by the moderator, any private messages or information, about BHX's handling agents would be really appreciated. Thank you so much.

BEagle

11th Feb 2007, 17:22

Last Tuesday (6 Feb), I was due to fly from BHX-DUS on LH4933, then DUS-STR. As I waited at the gate at around 1115, the aircraft 'went tech'. We were told to go back to the main lounge and that we would know more at 1135. At 1135, that became 1210....then 1230. Distrusting the poor information we were being given, I rang the LH Senator line to investigate the alternatives. I was told that it would be possible to fly via ZRH with Swiss at 1335, as long as I booked by 1235. So I kept that up my sleeve whilst waiting (with several others) for more news. The ladies in the 'Charnley Suite' were as helpful as they could be, given the poor information they were receiving. But at around 1225 I received a sms telling me that the ETD was now 1310. I'd already worked out that 1300 was the latest I could accept to make my connection, so called LH Senator again to do rebook with Swiss. Clunk, click, done - excellent!

Then I had to get Security to let me out again, so that I could go to the airline desk. No problems, quick and efficient.....

But then I came up against Aviance.... 3 or 4 people waiting, only 1 agent who was being less than effective. I apologised to those waiting and asked whether this was also the Star Alliance desk for my rebooked flight. "No - you'll have to go to Swissport in the other terminal" was the reply. So off I trod and spoke to a very efficient young chap at the check-in desk who promptly issued both my new boarding cards. "What about my suitcase? It's already on the LH4933", I asked. He suggested I spoke to Swissport - so over to the Swissport desk. A very helpful chap took my details, then rang Aviance. It was a simple question - would LH take my suitcase to STR knowing that I was rebooked via ZRH, or would my suitcase need to be transferred to the Swiss flight? He was given lie after lie by the idiots at Aviance, finally he apologised profusely and said that I would have to go back to collect my suitcase from 'overized baggage' as Aviance were incapable of bringing it direct to the check-in desk. "They are not really giving you a Gold Card service, Sir", he added. So - back to the other terminal to 'oversize baggage' to find about 4 or 5 people slouching about doing bugger all. After a few minutes I asked about my suitcase - and it was like talking to guppy fish at feeding time. However, I finally recovered my suitcase and went back again to Swiss check-in. Clunk, click, done - new bag tag issued, up to departures, through security and onto the jet......

Made it to STR to meet my colleague, grateful thanks to all at Swissport.

But Aviance? What a bloody joke. GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDES AND PROVIDE A SERVICE!!

I'm flying on the same BHX-DUS next week and will make a point off popping over to Swissport to thank them for their excellent, helpful service.

As we taxied out at 1335, I could see the LH4933 just beginning to push back. So, had I believed Aviance/Lufthansa I would have missed my connection.....:ugh:

groundedforgood

14th Feb 2007, 02:21

Have to add to this regarding Swissport, great service, above and beyond the call of duty. Was booked on LX423 - BHX-ZRH-FCO on 18th Jan (the day of high winds). A/C ended up as a divert at EMA (or whatever they're called this week), flight cancelled. Swissport agent bent over backwards to help, not only with a rebook on the flight 24 hours later, but also contacting hotels, cars etc, off his own bat, to move bookings forward by 24 hours. This bloke dealt with a long queue of pax and was extremely courteous and helpful to all. A credit to the industry.
May I also say that kudos to the driver of EK39 on that day, plonked the beast down near to the 06/24 intersect in awful conditions and kept it on-line. If you're reading this mate, you did well :ok:

AMM626

16th Feb 2007, 16:26

bmibaby, has today (Friday 16 February 2007) announced further growth at Birmingham International Airport.
The airline, which has been embarking on a prolific expansion programme at Birmingham International, will base an additional Boeing 737 aircraft at the airport taking its total fleet to nine. Capacity will increase by a staggering 80% year on year.
The growth sees the introduction of a new four times a week service to the popular UK destination of Jersey with the start of truly low fares on the route.....

...... The growth sees the introduction of a new four times a week service to the popular UK destination of Jersey, The airline plans to increase its Jersey service to double daily flights over the next 12 months.....

.....Demand from business passengers for the airline’s existing low fare flights to Edinburgh and Glasgow International has been so overwhelming that the airline has decided to again increase the number of daily flights one year ahead of its initial plans. bmibaby will now be offering five flights a day to Edinburgh and four flights a day to Glasgow International.

Full press release on BHX's website.