AAE 737 damged?

[fixa24]

So whats the goss with what happened here?
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,20696015-3102,00.html

Say's a B737 undergoing freighter conversion at avalon was written off?:ouch:

Any news?

[jumpuFOKKERjump]

This may be a complete and utter first in the reporting of aviation news. This article matches the rumour I heard a month or so ago perfectly!!! They even managed a reasonable link to the dear old Thumper soldiering on a bit longer because of it. Wouldn't have expected it of such a star of Mediawatch like the Courier Mail...

With all that I don't have any more details... Or I did but have forgotten them.

[satmstr]

Intresting news , i myself heard this rumour aswell about AAE 737 in avalon about a week ago, who is doing these conversions? are they contracted out?

oh well looks like they better find another 737 to convert, hopefully they dont drop this one :mad:

[BAE146]

.................and everyone reckons NJS maintenance is a joke ! I heard this rumour in BAH two months ago from a LAME. QF were vehemently denying any such thing.

Bit like the 400 they demolished in BKK - it was never a big deal.

Nice one boys.:E

[MRS QANTAS]

you forget, avalon is not qantas and never will be. If this rumour is true, it is not unlike the **** that has many other times come out of avalon...been going on for years...

[The Chef]

From a reliable source, it was severly damaged and should have been written off, but wasnt. They are now probably not going to convert as many as originally planned.

The Chef

[Wingspar]

What one did they drop? (i.e. rego)

[colt_pa22]

who is doing these conversions? Are they contracted out?
The conversions have been contracted to Israeli Aircraft Systems, overseen by a few Qantas Lames and being carried out (butchered) by contractors mostly from Asia.

[3 Holer]

Can anyone confirm the 737 flying at the moment (VH-XMO) was the second converted and the first one is still in the hangar waiting for someone to sign it off as serviceable ?

The Chef - how many were they going to convert? I heard only the four from Jetconnect.

[Roger Standby]

Heard the same rumour about a month ago as well. Theory was a great hole was cut in the side of the aircraft, reducing structural integrity, and people climbed all through the aircraft before someone thought about the implications of what the unsupported weight was doing. I heard that the talk was that the airframe was to be written off.:{

[ennui]

"The Rumour", dates back to around August when after a lot of dithering, measuring, re-measuring et al ad infinitim, (sic), the correct location of the hole to be cut was decided upon.

As the story goes, the cavity was created in the correct place, however the jig that was constructed to support the airframe in it's delicate state was not up to the task! result bent aeroplane!

Further rumours suggested that the second aircraft suffered the fate of the first. Apparantly a fix for the bent aircraft has been decided upon and actioned. Unfortunately no-one seems to want to sign their name to the paperwork. Go figure.

Meybe it would have been more cost effective to purchase the jig as well as the kit boys!

[Torqueman]

After reading this thread and making a few calls, which by the way some of you should, I can confirm that most of you are talking sh!t. The plane is flying around servicable. No problems after departing Avalon. Work is aparently progressing well on the next two. The majority of delays I am told are resulting from the poor mod supplied by the israel.

So get your facts, yes facts, right. Rumours blah, blah, blah, remain just that.

It's easy to pick up a phone and ask. It's not such a big industry is Australia. Everyone knows someone. :cool:

I also believe the big GD is heading off to Avalon soon for a formal pat on the back for a job well done.

[Roger Standby]

Torqueman,

We don't all know someone, that's why we post here so someone that does will find the right answers. Please note that most posters here have deliberately added the word "rumour" to their posts to qualify the extent of their knowledge on the matter.

Thanks for following up, now pull your head in.

As for GD, i suspect the pat on the back might be a firm push instead as he leans them over forward and ...:eek:

[BAE146]

Hey Torqueman who did you call the tooth fairy?

Cam Spencer did exactly what you say you did - rang someone and guess what - one bent 737 ! Now if the Courier Mail is talking sh!t as you allege, then I expect QF will sue for defamation. If not then I suggest you do as Roger says and pull your head in

As for Geoff patting (slapping more like it) people on the back down there in AVV, I believe it has already been done and there had better not be anymore STUFF UPS !!!!!!!!!

[Torqueman]

Hey Torqueman who did you call the tooth fairy?

Cam Spencer did exactly what you say you did - rang someone and guess what - one bent 737 ! Now if the Courier Mail is talking sh!t as you allege, then I expect QF will sue for defamation. If not then I suggest you do as Roger says and pull your head in

As for Geoff patting (slapping more like it) people on the back down there in AVV, I believe it has already been done and there had better not be anymore STUFF UPS !!!!!!!!!


I think i'll go with my source thanks anyway.

I'll 'pull my head in', if you go back to where you came from, Fantasy Island! :ok:

p.s. Good luck to the folks at Melbourne Heavy. I Hope it goes well for them.

[fixa24]

Torqueman;

read the whole first post mate. There's a link on there ( in blue underlining incase your not familiar with links) that directs you to a newspaper article in which it states that a 737 was damaged.

Mate, before you attack people, get YOUR facts right. The thread was started trying to find out what happened. No one started it as a rumour going around (although it apparently was).

Where's all the guys that work at AVV when you need them?

Give GD a shove from the tail dock.(not that i condone that behaviour)

[Torqueman]

Torqueman;

read the whole first post mate. There's a link on there ( in blue underlining incase your not familiar with links) that directs you to a newspaper article in which it states that a 737 was damaged.

Mate, before you attack people, get YOUR facts right. The thread was started trying to find out what happened. No one started it as a rumour going around (although it apparently was).

Where's all the guys that work at AVV when you need them?

Give GD a shove from the tail dock.(not that i condone that behaviour)

Well to begin with the newspaper article is wrong. I would suggest they do more research before they print such rubbish in the future. Just goes to show what a quality tabloid it is.

Secondly, I would think the guys at avalon are working at avalon. Trying i'm sure to keep what's left of 747 heavy maintenance and heavy modification programs in Australia. I'm all for that. What about you?

They're coping a lot of stick from people in this thread which i'm not sure is justified. But as it has been pointed out to me. These are just opinions.

Well this is mine.

[cognac]

Those people who relay rumours should tryto get the facts sort of straight.
The aircraft has been flying for almost a month now!

[Redstone]

Torqueman;
read the whole first post mate. There's a link on there ( in blue underlining incase your not familiar with links) that directs you to a newspaper article in which it states that a 737 was damaged.
Mate, before you attack people, get YOUR facts right. The thread was started trying to find out what happened. No one started it as a rumour going around (although it apparently was).
Where's all the guys that work at AVV when you need them?
Give GD a shove from the tail dock.(not that i condone that behaviour)


Ahhh, the old Courier Mail. Another quality daily from the News Ltd. stable.

Forget it, the only thing worth buying that rag for would be the TV guide.

[cognac]

Well, "MATE",
1 My reply was prompted by reading the article in the newspaper, so I link underlined was not necessary.
2 I work at Avalon and SURPRISE SURPRISE I worked on VH-XMO. Yes, it was late but not written off.

[BAE146]

Ahh, so now we have a live one in cognac who works on the 737 program and can get tell us the FACTS !

Can you answer a few simple questions for us to tidy up a few loose ends and end all these nasty rumours about our beloved Qantas.

1. Was the 1st 737 aircraft so badly damaged, Boeing had to come out and supervise repairs?

2. Is VH-XMO the 1st aircraft or the second one?

3. If XMO was the first one, why isn't the second 737 flying yet?

4. If the article in the Courier Mail contained "untruths", when can we expect to see Qantas refute the story and seek a public apology?

Many thanks.

[Spitty42]

G'day 146. I'm sure Cognac will agree with these...

1) Nope. STC holder's responsibility.

2) 1st.

3) It's a large mod. Progressing with a few minor delays.

4) Does anyone actually read The Courier Mail?

[rmm]

Spitty, just on point #3.

3) It's a large mod. Progressing with a few minor delays.

The original maintenance schedule had the third aircraft flying in Oct 2006 & the
4th in the air by Xmas.

Minor Delays? :confused:

Any truth in the rumour that the 4th and any subsequent freighters will head offshore for conversion due to the turn time at AVV. Have heard QF are copping some hefty penalties due delivery times.

Rmm

[cognac]

Thanks Spitty!
1. The only foreigners at Avalon have been from IAI. Not a Boeing Rep. in sight.
2. There was some confusion about serial numbers but, XMO was the first one in and the first one out.
3. XMR is well on the way. Still coming to grips with the IAI paperwork. Makes QF paperwork look like state of the art stuff.
4. BAE 146, I believe your third question should be directed to David Brown from Qantas not me.
RMM, you seem to be loading the bullets! Why don't you come out and pass on the information you seem to possess.

[rmm]

Cognac,

The information is freely available on the QF LAN (if you have access. If you dont any QF LAME at AVV will have.) Search the G drive for the HMPlan folder. Once there search the 2005 archives to see when the XM series entered the plan. It's all in excel format. You will see the original start & completion dates with some fat padded in on the first one for obvious reasons.

Cheers,
Rmm

[qantas22]

After reading this thread and making a few calls, which by the way some of you should, I can confirm that most of you are talking sh!t. The plane is flying around servicable. No problems after departing Avalon. Work is aparently progressing well on the next two. The majority of delays I am told are resulting from the poor mod supplied by the israel.

So get your facts, yes facts, right. Rumours blah, blah, blah, remain just that.

It's easy to pick up a phone and ask. It's not such a big industry is Australia. Everyone knows someone. :cool:

I also believe the big GD is heading off to Avalon soon for a formal pat on the back for a job well done.



HEY TORUEMAN

Pick that blower up again and strike 2. You are talking sh!t (as you would put it) Geoff Dixon wont go near avalon to congratulate the nips working ther he was quoted as saying just last week "Our freighter program is in shambles". He is apparentley very unhappy. Hence tullamarine doing the check on the next freighter before conversion. How do i know this? I made some calls.

[Torqueman]

Alas we have stumbled upon some truths at Avalon.

The boys and girls who poke fingers and tell stories have alot to learn.

I know i'll cop some flak for that statement from the disgruntled, but who cares. I reakon it's great you guys are still battling on down there.

Be proud of what you're doing down there. Jobs and skills in Australia !! :ok:

If they were so proud of what they did maybe they'd be inclined to tell us ???? I bet they don't though...... Says something doesn't it.......

And one last thing....If they think cutting a massive hole in and aircraft and ripping the guts out of it is a slam bam thankyou mamm job, well they obviously don't work on planes do they? You're bound to come across some hurdles. Even hurdlers stumble and lose time. They still get up and finish the race.

Good on ya guys:ok:

[MRS QANTAS]

for those of you that dont know, avalon has introduced triplicate inspections for signing off maint due to all the f..k ups they have had...centre of excellance my ass...watch the deteriation of aircraft flying around australia when melb heavy gets shut down in 2 weeks...should compile a list of the problems that have come out of avalon....might be an interesting read for many of you...

[Pete Conrad]

Geee whizz, what an operation..we have drama with the aeroplanes, then we have the only pilots in the QF group to be on AWA's getting paid ****e...A real career path here.....flying for a start up freight operation that uses clapped out 73's and on low paid AWA's, bet the guys that went there are singing the praise of the operation...oh , but hang on, you guys were promised in the interview you will be flying 747's in three years...yeah right!

[Apophis]

for those of you that dont know, avalon has introduced triplicate inspections for signing off maint due to all the f..k ups they have had...centre of excellance my ass...watch the deteriation of aircraft flying around australia when melb heavy gets shut down in 2 weeks...should compile a list of the problems that have come out of avalon....might be an interesting read for many of you...
do remember that the guys at avalon are working under qantas supervision so thats where the problem begins and ends.

[inthefluffystuff]

Apophis

Right on Apophis that is one huge problem in some area's, heard it was explained (damaged 737) that a common term of it was dropped off jacks was taken that the machine was dropped onto ground ,but the term was actually a saying that as older people would realise that it is a term for progress that means it has been taken off jacks and is on it's own undercarriage.

A few would take the wrong view and hey presto the rumor mill is up and running. Lots of duplicates being done yep that is not a good sign that the quality side is a bit lacking but I believe that too is being controlled but as Apophis stated the Qantas system was forced upon the guy's and Gal's down that way and makes you wonder how good the imports are.

[jack red]

Why would you do medical, psych test and sim at your own expense to work on one of the crappiest AWA's I've ever seen? As Pete Conrad says - old aircraft and flying around in the middle of the night and................it's ALL night flying!

Qantas - you are really scrapeing the bottom of the barrel for employer/employee relations.

You're a disgrace :mad:

[Watch My Form]

jack red you seem to know what is going on, so please let us all know what are the T&C on offer with the EFA AWA?

[Capt Claret]

jack red said
Why would you do medical, psych test and sim at your own expense to work on one of the crappiest AWA's I've ever seen?

Simple really. There are more pilots than jobs. There are few jet commands going. There are a lot of pilots who want to live in Australia, and rather than look after your terms and conditions by living abroad, they take the Aussie job that's offered and is acceptable to them.

It's called supply and demand, and, no one is looking out for their interests, so, quite understandably they're looking out for their own.

One has to hand it to Dixon, he's got pilots by the short and curlies.

Given the sledging that people get on this BB when they accept what's on offer, rather than wait for the holy QF grail to come home to roost, it's my opinion that the days of the QF god are numbered and some of the sledgers might want to show some empathy now, because there's a good chance they'll be looking for it some time in the future.

Just ask the career AN drivers how security of employment in aviation works.

[jack red]

Capt Claret I am the only one looking after my terms and conditions. If there is an abundance of pilots down in Oz then fair enough, QF will exploit them to the hilt. I was under the impression that a shortage of crew exists as it does overseas and (that being the case) couldn't understand how QF could sell such a package. I never meant to sledge you or your job.;)

Watch My Form welcome aboard. APPLY HERE (http://www.expressfreightersaustralia.com/) and have a chat with PA. You decide your own T&Cs with this outfit.Just don't set the bar too high!:E

[BHMvictim]

do remember that the guys at avalon are working under qantas supervision so thats where the problem begins and ends.

Oh yes!! those incompetent Qantas LAMEs! Surely they can supervise 10-15 AMEs at a time.... from backgrounds such a GA in bangladesh or motor mechanics!:rolleyes:

[Apophis]

Oh yes!! those incometent Qantas LAMEs! Surely they can supervise 10-15 AMEs at a time.... from backgrounds such a GA in bangladesh or motor mechanics!:rolleyes:
if they can,t supervise there people they should bring it up with the those that run the place if they just sit back and say nothing it just goes on then they end up looking after 30 people just signing stuff to keep the peace just don,t work.

[BHMvictim]

Hmmmm good point. Avalon has been known to attract some of the more "willing to certify anything" Qantas LAMEs. I can think of a few LAMEs who refused to put their hand up for secondments to Avalon for this reason.

[OhForSure]

Speaking to one of my best mates the other day... he met a 21 year old who apparently is just finishing his endorsement on type and starts with EFA very soon. There was mention of him being a cadet of some sort... don't know whether or not that implies QF Cadet:confused:

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

i got a email from one of my mates in aae last week and it seems there is more to this than meets the eye.......i have deleted and edited for brevity and relevance.................Buon giorno *******,

Thank you for your hospitality on our recent …………………………………

On the work front, things are more chaotic now than they were just after the Ansett collapse. They still haven’t found a replacement for Bucks (who we have since found out, stuck it to Qantas re the 727 replacement) after they sacked him and we have been without a CEO for some time now…………………………………………… The 737 program I was telling you about has been nothing short of a disaster and may well turn out to be one of the greatest corporate decision f**k ups in QF history………………………………………………………………………………………

We were told that EFA (Express Freighters Australia – read QF or Express F**K up Again!) would have four 737s up and running by the end of December………………………………………………………………………. They only have one and that has to be helped out every second night with a couple of Metros down to Tassie because it can’t carry the load. We were told they dropped the first one and wrote it off and because they are taking more care with the next three our four may not be up and running by March ’07. Meanwhile, NJS are selling the 727s so we may not have them in the New Year either. I have heard that Australia Post are not happy with the situation and if they bail out, we shall all be looking for a new job.

It’s a cock up of mammoth proportion but I still have our lotto numbers in every week end!........................................................ ............................................................ .......



looks like dicko could have stuffed this one up...........plenty of work up here with cx freight if anyone wants a job............

[jack red]

The 737 program I was telling you about has been nothing short of a disaster and may well turn out to be one of the greatest corporate decision f**k ups in QF history………………………………………………………………………………………


Arise, Sir Geoffrey, Lady Margaret awaits you at the exit. :D

[inthefluffystuff]

Heard GD is going to Avalon to compliment the workers for a job well done on the 737 conversion today? must be all rumors about him being upset with the program? tea and bikkies all round cannot wait to hear from my friend about it but I suppose it will make the news.

[3 Holer]

Dixon would not be upset with the program because it's his baby.One 737 is flying when there should have been three at this stage and he is going to Avalon to compliment the workers for a job well done?

Is he, with all due respect, trying to put a positive spin on one of the greatest corporate decision f**k ups in QF history… ? :confused:

[Slab]

It's all good.... Transmile Air Services 727 to the rescue! Will be on lease to cover any short comings very soon. ;)

[Apophis]

Heard GD is going to Avalon to compliment the workers for a job well done on the 737 conversion today? must be all rumors about him being upset with the program? tea and bikkies all round cannot wait to hear from my friend about it but I suppose it will make the news.
no tea and bikkies for the plebs from the floor you all stand at the rear and shut up or else thats what happened.

[Torqueman]

HEY TORUEMAN

You are talking sh!t (as you would put it) Geoff Dixon wont go near avalon to congratulate the nips working ther he was quoted as saying just last week "Our freighter program is in shambles". He is apparentley very unhappy. Hence tullamarine doing the check on the next freighter before conversion. How do i know this? I made some calls.

I'd suggest you check your phone line. We'll maybe he was just lost and ended up in Avalon. Dammit while I'm there I should organise the media and congratulate the staff for a job well done. :D

Maybe I'm just full of sh!t like you said though............at least they were eating a nice lunch down there, not eating their words...!!!!!

[domo]

dixon is the kiss of death like a mafiosa who kisses a person as a signal to his henchemen. lets see what happens at tula we all saw heavy sydney

[BAE146]

It's all good.... Transmile Air Services 727 to the rescue!

Dicko you are incredible. Outsourcing work to a foreign Company, taking aussie pilots jobs, lame jobs and allowing them into the country to cover your f**kups is disgraceful.

For a Company that purports to "still call Australia Home" this is very un-australian !:=

[ennui]

Looks as if the boot is migrating to the other foot finally.

Things are drying up overseas with major airlines considering increasing T&C's in order to attract pilot applicants to support their expansion plans.

Pilot training is at an historical all time low.

The manufacturers are making more aircraft than there are pilots training!

In an artificial employment arena like Oz this may take some time to flow through.

If I was an aviation employer I might just try to put the screws on my employees and lock them into an unusually long AWA/contract to fix the costs that I know will be escalating shortly.

I may even consider applying for another spare AOC to use as a whip if the AOC carrot doesn't work.

Good luck guys, if your smart and UNIFIED you may have a chance!