Saudi getting A330s???

[Ready]

One agency has put out an ad for A330 drivers for a middle east national carrier. FAA licences.
I cannot think of anything other than Saudi.
Can you?

[mutt]

Its a good guess :):):)

Short term solution to a long ignored problem.

Just be warned, 1 agency is planning to base crews in Saudia City residential compound :(

Mutt

[Ready]

Thanks Mutt,
And I'm afraid that my second good guess is that nobody gets to commute if hired to fly for Saudi?
Well, one never knows. We'll see!

[mutt]

Guess that depends on the agency, presently SV crews get 6 blocked days off per month (In theory) with a free ticket to any SV destination.

But a new-hire SV Captain gets paid a lot less than agency pilots.

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Hi Mutt,

Sounds like these A330s are just interim lift.
Any news on longterm fleet review at Saudia? Will there be an announcement / order any time soon?

[mutt]

YES / YES / YES


New DG is an interesting guy who really wants to run an airline :):)

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Maybe I'm being thick but why wouldn't this mean QR or EK?

aybe it's to do with the FAA licence requirement? I get the impression that QR and EK like JAA licences better.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

YES / YES / YES


New DG is an interesting guy who really wants to run an airline :):)

Mutt

Hi Mutt,

Glad to hear that :)

al-Mulhim certainly has a good reputation, I hope he delivers on his promise. Saudia can become something.

[goldwing2006]

Same agency looking for A320 pilots for ME and will have to do FAA test. Any idea which airline this is for?

cheers
GW2006

[mutt]

Saudia.... plus B737-800 crews......

Mutt.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

A320 , B738!

The plot thickens.

Bye bye MD90? Shall I get the (Saudi) champagne out?

[Darkjet]

Hi Mutt ,

Does this mean Saudia plans to bring 737/800 ? and if yes when ?
Cheers :)
Darkjet

[Charlie_Fox]

Saudia going with 20 leased A320/A330 to fill short term capacity needs until new aircraft can be delivered.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Hi Charlie Fox,

Very nice. Any idea of the mix of types? eg. 14x A320 6x A332/3 ?

On another issue, I'm hoping they use the opportunity of the fleet renewal to do a cabin upgrade. they are looking dated.

[Ready]

Any idea of as when this could happen?
Called up one agency and was told no details available yet (probably not allowed to disclose anything at this point in time).
Hard to believe that they put up an ad with no details whatsoever on the contract.
Is SV pretty much in line with the other airlines in the Gulf as far as T&C go?

[Charlie_Fox]

I don't know exactly what has been said between Saudia and the agency, but Saudia hasn't sourced all the aircraft yet. And I don't know the mix A330/A320, sorry.

[mutt]

Al-Mulhim has a new and interesting approach, in an Arabic newspaper interview two days ago, he questioned why he was in charge of a mail company and hospital, (Which implies that he will get rid of both) stated that he is pushing for privatization in 18-24 months and realizes that he needs to replace aircraft before he is forced to remove older aircraft from service. He therefore needs replacements for the A300's and starting Feb2007, the B747-100's...................... Rumor says 35 leased airbus aircraft..

Mutt

[Ready]

Thanks Mutt, well if it's as early as February, I'm glad the moderator put the thread back in.

You mentioned 6 blocked days off per month in theory...in practice how is it?

We're all used to the whining at QR, EY, and EK (and for a good reason I have to admit), how come we do not hear much whining from the SV pilots on this forum where we have expat pilots living probably in the least popular country of the Middle East and the money not being so good (I heard)?
From what I read previously, direct entry or through agencies, but directly is not very good money wise, correct?

[newscaster]

Now an LCC is planned http://www.arabnews.com/?page=6&section=0&article=88745&d=12&m=11&y=2006

[Desert Diner]

Not sure if that means the start up of a new Saudia LCC. It could also mean reduced prices on some flights.

They are begining to see some competition in Kingdom so I'm sure they have to respond.

As for the new Airbi's, the A300's and old 747's need do need replacement. As they are meant for the Hajj, I would have though more likely a mix of second hand 330/340 's

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

An LCC division would make sense to me. They already have a subfleet of all-economy configured aircraft, they might as well utilise them better. The only danger is it might canabalise the full service operation's market.


In general, I think al-Mulhim is making the right noises, but he'll have a battle in his hands regarding the workforce (he stated an aim to reduce the workforce by nearly a third).

[Desert Diner]

As I have been told in reference to Gulf Traveler: There are no low cost airlines in the ME only lower priced (e.g. fare) airlines.

The can slap a new paintjob and change the uniform a little be to justify keeping fares high in other markets, but its still the same airline.

[crazy_pilot]

i do recall reading somewhre that sadui will start a 'low cost' operation soon, this new 'airline' is meant to be for the large majority of the low paid expat workforce.. :confused:

[mutt]

SVA has its hands full with privatization..... give them a year to sort out the various sections of the airline and to find an immediate fleet and who knows... you might see a proper LCC in 2009......

I'm guessing that SAMA and NAS will be granted the new operators licences at the end of the year, with Al-Khayala operating their VIP service and another B747-400 operator, 2007 will be an interesting year for Saudi aviation :):)

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

SVA has its hands full with privatization..... give them a year to sort out the various sections of the airline and to find an immediate fleet and who knows... you might see a proper LCC in 2009......

I'm guessing that SAMA and NAS will be granted the new operators licences at the end of the year, with Al-Khayala operating their VIP service and another B747-400 operator, 2007 will be an interesting year for Saudi aviation :):)

Mutt


Can you shed any light on this?

[Ready]

Just read an article that the Saudi Authorities have authorized NAS to start up a new LCC.
It says early 2007.
Could be interesting, aircraft type and so on.

[Luke SkyToddler]

It's Easyjet. They actually released this press statement back in August, but for some reason it has been virtually unnoticed here on PPRUNE

( http://www.easyjet.com/en/investor/evaluation_of_franchise_opportunity.html )

Evaluation of franchise opportunity
easyJet announced today that it is evaluating an opportunity to franchise its brand following a recent joint approach by Jeddah based National Air Services (NAS) and Dubai-based Abraaj Capital, the major private equity firm in the Middle East, to use the easyJet name in the Arabian Gulf. NAS is applying for a licence to operate domestic flights initially in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and at a later date other flights within the Arabian Gulf - a region with minimal low-cost airline penetration.

The decision on whether to progress with this opportunity, which will not involve easyJet investing any equity or cash, will be made in conjunction with NAS and will depend on the progress of its application for a licence, the completion of an agreement in a form satisfactory to the Board of easyJet; and the delivery of significant shareholder value. Since it is expected that this will take the remainder of 2006, a decision in relation to this opportunity is unlikely before early 2007.

Who is this mysterious agency with the Saudia contract?

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

NAS' approach to Easyjet was mentioned in the Sama threads. We'll have to see if Stelios bites, but the biggest hurdle (the licence) is passed.

Back to the main topic, Saudia sure is taking it's time in deciding the future of it's fleet. I was kind of hoping to hear an announcement before the end of the year.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

I'm guessing that SAMA and NAS will be granted the new operators licences at the end of the year, with Al-Khayala operating their VIP service and another B747-400 operator, 2007 will be an interesting year for Saudi aviation :):)

Mutt



According to Pinoy news sources, a Saudi based airline call "Tair airways" is going to start operating Clark-Riyadh-Jeddah flights in 2007, using a 744.

Is this who you mean?

Anyone heard of "Tair"? Do they mean Tayyar?

[mutt]

Believe they are using the name RED SEA AIR and will operate adhoc charter.

Dont know about the airline you mentioned.

Mutt

[Charlie_Fox]

Tair is Philippine carrier ...

Tair Airway has go-signal to operate in Clark airport

The Civil Aeronautics Board has approved the petition of new foreign budget airline Tair Airways to operate in Clark International Airport.

Porvenir Porciuncula, CAB deputy executive director, said Tair Airway will fly three times a week from Clark-Riyadh-Jeddah using B747-400 plane by January next year.

Porciuncula said the airline is set to acquire new planes in Japan. Tiger Airways and Air Asia make two flights each to Clark daily. Air Asia flies to Macau once daily. These budget airlines comprised more than half of the average 46 flights weekly to Clark.

The low-cost carriers’ began flying in the country in April, when the government open the Clark International Airport for the low-budget airlines.

The liberalization of air policy is part of the policy framework to promote tourism under the Arroyo administration’s Medium Term Development Plan for 2004 to 2010. DG Amojelar, The Manila Times

[stephenlink]

According to Pinoy news sources, a Saudi based airline call "Tair airways" is going to start operating Clark-Riyadh-Jeddah flights in 2007, using a 744.

Is this who you mean?

Anyone heard of "Tair"? Do they mean Tayyar?

I came across many news articles regarding this airline Tair Airways and I think they will be starting very soon using 747-400..but I dont know who will be flying them..expats maybe..they will be catering Overseas Filipino Workers from Saudi since the Philippine flag carrier has abandoned this route due to strong competition from mideast airline, new mideast carriers for 2007..this should be very interesting:ok:

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

According to the media, SV is looking to order 60 widebodies
at a cost of $12 Billion.

Any guesses?

I see:
25x A330 (interim aircraft)
20x 787-3/8
10x A350-900
5x A350-1000

Do they need that many widebodies though?

[mutt]

10x A350-900
5x A350-1000
Ummmm, have Airbus finalized the design on the A350 ?? Following the A380 debacle, it will take a brave man to trust them with another new design….

Where did you read about 60 aircraft?

Mutt

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

Hi mutt,

Sure, Airbus have all to prove. But they're still a top plane maker and can't be discounted. Plus they will be desperate for more orders so they might be willing to offer a better deal than Boeing.


Regarding the 60 figure, this is the article: http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Document.aspx?id=299C41DE-C141-4D0D-AE2B-3F1BA994EB4B&doc_page=1
Needs a huge pinch of salt though.

[SV_741_India_Bravo]

whats the timetable for 741/3 retirement?
any chances for 744?
kinda sad to see the MD-90's going.......ahh well...if they come up with a better winglet design than the one in current use, 330s and 738s will be worth seeing.......

[mutt]

1st B741 will be retired next month, 2nd later in the year.
Last A300 to be retired by April/May.
B744 would be a good interim choice especially as they have sufficient crews qualified on that aircraft.
MD90... who said they were going anywhere??? It wasnt Mr Boeing :)

Fools, Reuters had an article yesterday that stated the Business Online article was incorrect.... Gotta love this part of the world. :):)

As for Airbus, sometimes its not the deal but the credibility… Airbus presently have NONE! But hey, its all down to who has the biggest Wasta :)

Mutt

[SV_741_India_Bravo]

As for Airbus, sometimes its not the deal but the credibility… Airbus presently have NONE! But hey, its all down to who has the biggest Wasta :)
Mutt

:}
hehe agreed......

[ExSimGuy]

from earlier link - By offering the new service, Saudia is targeting some four to five million expatriate workers who earn low salaries and cannot afford to pay their tickets to their home countries except once in two years.
Maybe they mean that employers of low-income expats will go for this. Employees, especially low-income Asian ones, only get to travel home every 2 years (if that!) because the employer pays the tab.

Another way that some employers can cut their costs by adding to the misery of their staff (low seat-pitch and seats stacked above each other:ooh:?)

[SV_741_India_Bravo]

from earlier link -
Another way that some employers can cut their costs by adding to the misery of their staff (low seat-pitch and seats stacked above each other:ooh:?)

hmm thats quite possbile........

I thought these workers went home every 5 years...and the way they're treated at the airport....totally disgusting.....

[Panama Jack]

Yes, totally disgusting.

One of my cabin crew remarked that sub-Continent workers who end up learning to speak some Arabic end up speaking it in a very loud, agressive and somewhat rude manner (Give me water!!!) -- because that is what they are used to hearing (from their experiences in working in places in the Gulf and receiving orders from their superiors) and they actually think that this is how the language is properly spoken.

Anyhow, here is the inspiration for the business model of a Saudi LCC for sub-Continent expats:

http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/sardines_flying_big.jpg

And if they could send them via this method (and in the process save a couple of hundred Riyals), they would:

http://lappi.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/image458.jpg

[newscaster]

Rumored that four SV 777's are to be sold to Syrian Air with US approval.

[akerosid]

Interesting, but weren't they denied permission to order Airbuses with RR engines because of sanctions?

(I know IR was as well, but I wasn't sure if Syrian had ordered them as well; they were also rumoured to be interested in IL-96s).