Interesting Approach

[Droopystop]

At the weekend I was subjected to a rather interesting approach by the Scottish BA franchise holder. The cloud break procedure was flown to position visually on base leg. The turn onto final was only completed at less than .5nm from touch down at a height I estimated to be around 200' above the nearest obstacle. The aircraft was full and there was a downwind component. It all seemed a bit rushed (without reason) and would have worried nervous passengers. Should I complain to the airline? Is too much pressure being put on crews to cut corners?

[brain fade]

Too much pressure? Unlikely.
I wouldn't complain. Used to work for the airline I think you're referring to. Full of good 'stick and rudder' type pilots who could probably see a bit more out their windows than you could from yours.
visual apps much more common up there due to lack of traffic and use of NDB's Vor/DME arc procs etc.
Sometimes wish Iwas still flying for them.:ok:

[nimston]

Depends which airfield you are refering to if it was way up north then they were probably more like 50'-100' above the nearest obsticle and turning at .5 nm. 200ft would leave you to high and you'd probably float a little.

[Strepsils]

Droopystop - Were you on the jump seat? Because if you weren't, I think you can see where this response is going...:hmm:

[UKpaxman]

Sumburgh, Loganair, approach over the lighthouse by any chance?

Mind you, because of the hill, I'm sure the final turn into that runway is less than 0.5 miles...

[MungoP]

Ahhhhh... Sumburgh... What memories.. must have landed there 200 times and it was never the same place twice !

[JackOffallTrades]

At the weekend I was subjected to a rather interesting approach by the Scottish BA franchise holder. The cloud break procedure was flown to position visually on base leg. The turn onto final was only completed at less than .5nm from touch down at a height I estimated to be around 200' above the nearest obstacle. The aircraft was full and there was a downwind component. It all seemed a bit rushed (without reason) and would have worried nervous passengers. Should I complain to the airline? Is too much pressure being put on crews to cut corners?

Sounds like you hadn't a clue about what was going on ,and the only one that was nervous was you?

How the heck can you tell if there's a tailwind or not by looking out of a passenger window? Did you spot some smoke??

How do you know the approach was "rushed" when you don't know the operators stabilzed approach criteria and don't have any instruments infront of you?

If I were the captain of that aircraft I would be extreemly annoyed if some passenger started kicking up such a fuss with no evidence. It's the sort of comment that could get the crew grounded and investigated with a black mark against them with no pay till the airline realizes you have no ground to stand on. It's not going to get anything done about any commercial pressure the crew are subjected too. The only one who would ultimately suffer from such negative feedback is the poor old captain.

In short, if you have an issue with the pilots flying, wait till the engines are shut down and go and talk to him about it before getting off. I'm sure he'll tell you where to go!

[barit1]

About 30 yrs. ago I was PAX on a DC9 on night approach to KBOS 4R (http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBOS). About 2 miles out the cpt added some power, stopped descent, and rolled into an "unconventional" right turn at a few hundred feet altitude. I was enjoying the view of the harbor lights when he reversed the roll to line up on 33, whereupon we landed without further ado, although he wasn't "wings level" until over the numbers.

Seems that some traffic didn't clear 4R in time. The whole episode was rather fun for me, although we probably didn't reach 30º bank.

[jondc9]

the person indicating the concern has ever right to contact the airline and ask for an explanation.

chances are it will be a fine one showing good airmanship by the crew

there is an off chance that checking the FDR might show something amiss that the chief pilot would like to know about.

Barit1 has indicated one type of approach, and if properly done moves things along.


Having been based at both BOSTON and DCA, one can maneuver at relatively low altitudes in visual conditions to help ATC ...but one must be careful.

the normal approach to the southbound runway at DCA (formerly known as 18, now 19) is a kick with final maneuvering at low altitude.


I hope this person contacts the airline and he will probably get a letter of explanation.

I have never been annoyed at explaining something to a sincere passenger.

And sometimes landing with a 10 knot tail wind is safer than landing with a headwind...when the tailwind gives you an ILS and the headwind gives you an NDB. (runway length considerations of course)

[sleeper]

Circling approach maybe? Runway obstructed?

[RAT 5]

Sounds SOP for the old Hong Kong, or Samos, or Heraklion (easterly) or Calvi (northerly). No doubt many others. Why do the C/A's insist on opening the window blinds for arrival? Leads to such letters. As the pilots are fed on mushroom mangement techniques, should we not adopt the same for pax? (only a joke)

[Droopystop]

Jack off

OK I was expecting that. Thanks everyone else for taking my post for what it was - an honest observation.

I won't be complaining since the last thing I want to do is to dump the commander and the co pilot in it.

As it happens, I am a professional pilot who is familiar with the approaches and airport in question. I know what the altimeter and DME should read at the land marks we were passing and what it should look like. I also happen to know what a wind sock is for, how it works and how to use it.

I think the approach was gash and was leaving the airline open to complaints from passengers. I won't be complaining, but that doesn't mean someone else will not. Who knows, Mr CAA might have been on board.

PS I wouldn't have batted an eyelid if it was R33 (IIRC) at EGPB

[JTFC]

Droopystop,

Brilliant!

If the airfield in question is one of the northern outposts then it certainly sounds like cloud break to circle, (4.2nm radius), turning to keep within the terrain, as said operator does many times on a daily basis thoughout the year. Sounds like a perfectly stabilised approach to either 33/15

And even although the old Saab's getting on a bit, I'm pretty sure they're not operating with sufficiently big enough holes in the airframe for you to poke your dampened finger out to make a wind assessment.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :mad: :ok: :ok:

[BOAC]

Droopy - if it bothers you THAT much that you write about it here - in insufficient detail for anyone to make meaningful comment - then you SHOULD report it. NB MOST of the 'passengers' would be used to the type of flying 'up there'.

We do not know from your profile what your 'professional' flying experience is, and it may be that anything less than a straight-in ILS from 30 miles now-a-days will scare the pants off you.:) 'Stabilised ' criteria do NOT have to be lined up. 200' above an obstacle in that area is not uncommon - and is 200'. Tailwind landings do happen. 'Altimeter and DME' were probably not on the PF's menu at the time?

As someone else has said, the pilots in ?that? airline that I knew a couple of decades ago could have taken me anywhere.

Who knows, Mr CAA might have been on board. - not that far back in history 'Mr CAA' had himself been one of the 'Islanders'.

There is very little point in asking the question the way you asked it.
Why not name the airfield?
Did the tailwind present a problem? I. E. did it almost go off the end?
Did the PF have to hurl the a/c about at 100' to get it lined up?

It sounds like a skilled piece of visual flying to me, but as I say, who knows?

[Avman]

Sounds like it was fun to me, i.e. real flying. If you thought that was hairy, you should have experienced some of the visual landings I made with the former AVIACO on their DC-9s. And they're not tame little Saab 340s.

[Strepsils]

OK, you asked an honest question with vague points which could have serious consequences. If you are so concerned, please post back with the airport, runway, met conditions etc and allow those with experience on flying that type onto that runway in those met conditions to allay or confirm your fears.

By all means PM me if you'd rather not post it on the board.

[Two's in]

Better still, if you are a professional pilot and are perplexed by something that happened up front while you were fat, dumb, and (un)happy in the back, hang around until last when deplaning and then stick your head in and ask the crew about it - you'll probably get a much more timely and pointed response than asking here - after all, they were there...

[tallaonehotel]

Droopystrop,
You should have tried it in an ATP, even better!.
As a passenger of said airline at least 4 times a month, I couldn't fault these guy's flying capabilities. I've had a brilliant jump seat ride into a stormy GLA one evening, and everything was done by the book.
I don't think the SOP's would differ from the flight you were on.

[cwatters]

Just a comment about estimating heights...

Some time ago I was a solo rated glider pilot. Got very used to making flights at between 1000 and 2000 feet on the flat in the UK. All our final turns were made about 350-400 and were mostly judged by eye. Then one day I went for a flight in the mountains of switzerland with an instructor and went a lot higher. On our return to the field my sense of altitude was shot. At one point I was convinced we were down to around 800 feet and couldn't understand why we were heading away from the high key point to over fly his house. I looked at the altimeter and was surprised to see it reading nearly 3000 feet. My point is that even when you are used to judging heights it's possible to be completly fooled.

[islandhopper]

Ahhhhhh them where the days...........................................:)
60kt fog, ovc/300,xwind 35kts and all in a shed - always got in though and never had a complaint from the SLF as it should be........

[B Fraser]

If you were in a twotter and the FO was a very pretty girlie then you have nothing to worry about. She is a terrific wee pilot who is an absolute stickler for the rule book. I should know, she used to rap my knuckles for turning a whole second early in the circuit ;)

[QDMQDMQDM]

Hmm, if it was a Twin Otter, they can do this anyway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8wmZ6hhpg8

[MikeJ]

I well remember about 30 years ago flying SLF in a Trident to Madrid.
We were held for what seemed ages south of the field. When released, for landing in the southerly direction, we were taken downwind at about 1000' to the west of the runway. I was fortunate to be in a right hand window seat.

I swear that as we passed the landing threshold going North, we commenced our final descent in a fairly steep right hand turn, with me being interested in the wing tip clearance with the ground. We only levelled out a few seconds before touch down.

My reaction was the opposite. What lovely flying, I hadn't known that BA (BEA at that time?) pilots could have such fun! Mind you, I was only a PPL.

MikeJ

[Droopystop]

I am not going to reveal places, types, times, etc, even via PM. I am not out for a witch hunt. Maybe the approach was within the Ops manual, maybe it wasn't - that is not going to be resolved here and to be honest I don't care if it was or not. My point is simply this - why do tight approaches when a more sedate one would have done the job?

[Strepsils]

I am not out for a witch hunt

But you were willing to complain to the airline? What did you hope to achieve?

why do tight approaches when a more sedate one would have done the job

Would it? You say you are familiar with the airport and approach, what do you actually mean by that?

Whether the approach was ops manual or not could easily be solved here, but now you don't want to even name the airfield, so how can we?

With that in mind, what did you actually hope to achieve by this post? Or are you just doing a spot of fishing?

[GBALU53]

What we all need to know define an interesting approach??:ok:

One you land off on,:= :=

One you get away with,:cool: :cool:

One when you end up in a pile of scrap at the end of a runway??:sad: :sad:

[parkfell]

Droopystop

Unless you are prepared to name the airfield, how will you know whether a "tight approach" is a valid technique and complies with the SOPs for that runway.

Other factors may also have justified the style of approach on the day.

You seem to lacking the big picture based on what you have said so far.

What is the point of starting a topic without being prepared to disclose sufficient information to start a meaningful debate.

You may hold a professional licence, but do you know anything about operating in anger.... I think we should be told !!


;)

[Tubbs]

I fly for the Airline that you seem to mention...is it bad luck for pilots to say 'Loganair' in the same way that actors have to call Macbeth 'the Scottish Play'?? As I was working this weekend I'd be happy to 'fess up if it was one of my sectors to which you are referring. You mention in your post that you're not out for a 'witch-hunt' (hang on, this was posted on Halloween...is this a wind-up?)....however, I would suggest that in the interests of safety we should pursue the matter as clearly, in your learned opinion, this crew carried out a dangerous approach. Have you filed an ASR? Did you speak to the Captain?

"why do tight approaches when a more sedate one would have done the job?"
How do you know what would or wouldn't have done the job? I think you should have the bollocks to respond properly to the questions raised in these replies, rather than claiming "that is not going to be resolved here and to be honest I don't care if it was or not". Suddenly you don't care, after getting all Nigel about the tight approach.

[DB6]

Poor old Droopystop! Ask an innocent question eh? Sounds like Stornoway then, and possibly a late offer to the crew of an alternative runway for one reason or another. Loganair SOPs probably allow for a little more flexibility than jet airlines in the execution of a visual approach and what you describe sounds like it was within limits. What I will say is that there is constant training going on at the moment so minor misjudgements may happen, and it may be that to continue in that case is safer than going around with a new F/O in the RHS. All flights are data monitored by the way and if it was very iffy the crew may be spoken to quietly anyway. In answer to your last questions, no - no pressure to cut corners (apart from normal ops requests to get going NOW NOW NOW), and complaining would probably not serve much purpose for the above reasons.
Was it a nice landing by the way? If so it wasn't me :} .

[ecj]

As DB6 has pointed out Saab is not a jet. It is after all a light aircraft, and provided on a visual approach you are stable, wing levels by 300ft AAL latest, where does the problem lie?
When flying into Sumburgh, landing runway 33, it is not possible to be wings level until about 10 seconds before touchdown.
Loganair pilots are therefore well versed in flying tight approaches quite safely.
:ok:

[Khaosai]

Hi,

you asked the question, should you complain to the Airline.

Well, i feel there would be nothing to gain from doing so because as mentioned above by DB6, there will be some form of onboard monitoring, which will flag any exceedance if stabilisation criteria is not met.

Any exceedance occuring should however be dealt with by carrying out a go around.

If the crew elected to continue de stabilised then it wil be dealt with in house as deemed neccessary.

In the company i work for, on certain approaches, we have a 500ft cut off point, with a requirement for the wings to be level by 300ft AAL.

I would also imagine that there is no pressure being applied to crews to cut corners in the company mentioned above.

Rgds.

[UKpaxman]

When flying into Sumburgh, landing runway 33, it is not possible to be wings level until about 10 seconds before touchdown.
Loganair pilots are therefore well versed in flying tight approaches quite safely.
:ok:

As a regular pax on the Flightline 146's to Scatsta we once diverted to Sumburgh and landed on 33 - that was somewhat impressive, just a good thing the lady at the local farm on the final turn didn't have any washing hung out or she'd have lost the lot on the tip of the wing...

[ecj]

An optical illusion - UKpaxman eyes playing tricks.

Close, but not that close.

[GusHoneybun]

Should I complain to the airline?
Based on what is essentially your subjective veiw, and conclusions drawn from not having all the information, then No. Not unless your a Victor Meldrew type.

Going over what you have said here, there are only two airfields oop norf that have published cloud break procedures. Sumburgh and Stornoway. If you have never been in an aircraft doing the 33 arrival at Sumburgh, it is impressive. Most pilots tend to hug the hill line as this give them the more room to maneouver. And yes, you rarely get the wings level until 10 seconds to touchdown. All SOP for operating into this airfield.


If you don't like the approach, just close your eyes and wait for the thud. That's what I do.

[shetlander]

Hello there,
As I live in Shetland I might be able to help a bit.
Here is a picture as we fly past RWY33 and "the hill"
I did draw an arrow to show you were RWY33 is in relation to the hill.
I hope this illustrates the approach into RWY33 a bit better.
http://theimagehosting.info/out.php/i24272_1001061.jpg
Cheers,
Shetlander:cool:

[UKpaxman]

Nice piccie Shetlander, must be summertime in that photo;)
Worth pointing out that directly to the left of the aircraft just out of the photo is the lighthouse. Approach for ATP, ATR 72 and 146 (never done it in the Saab but assume t'would be the same) is to approach with the lighthouse and the arrowed hill to the RHS of the aircraft, heightwise usually slightly above the lighthouse but by the time you reach the hill the aircraft is about level with the crest of the hill, sharp left and touchdown. Islander can probably do a straight approach over the crest of the hill:ooh:

[Report@Boddam]

Shetlander thats a good picture of Sumburgh but a bit misleading. Aircraft making an approach to 33 normally come in from a tight left base. They would normally come inside the lighthouse hill, you can see a bit of it in the far left of the picture hidden by the wing strut. The hill you have the arrow pointing at would be on your right as you make the turn for the threshold.

It is a demanding approach which can be made harder by the weather conditions. It can be interesting to watch, but so can any of the approaches during the stormy season (which only lasts about 10 months!!).

I can assure you that the Loganair pilots that fly to Sumburgh fly that approach on a regular basis and do so safely.

During poor vis or low clould it is not unusual for aircraft to fly the 09Loc approach before breaking for Rw15 once visual. Again this involves a late(ish) turn which may seem strange to someone sat down the back.

As someone who sits on their backside looking out of a goldfish bowl as these planes pass by in all sorts of weather I have the greatest of respect for the pilots that fly into Sumburgh.:ok:

[UKpaxman]

It can be interesting to watch, but so can any of the approaches during the stormy season (which only lasts about 10 months!!).
:

The other 2 months are the foggy season;)

[shetlander]

Hello Again,
With reference to what "Report@Boddam" said,
I maybe should have pointed out that I wasn’t actually going to land on RWY33.
I was actually cleared to land on RWY27 and as I was approaching from the south I decided to go Behind the hill.
To then turn final for RWY27. Sumburgh Airport and HIAL have just invested in a multi - million pound Runway extension on the RWY27/09.
The picture below shows the new extension completed. This extension is to allow greater flexibility for the Loganair Saab 340’s and also BAe 146’s that may venture into Sumburgh.
I would also like to say how good it is to get involved in a discussion on here, especially when its about your local airport:cool:
As some of you might have seen this is an incident that happened in Shetland just yesterday,
Its worth checking out lol::
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250438

http://theimagehosting.info/out.php/i24293_1001065.jpg
Cheers,
Shetlander:cool:

[Strepsils]

Report@Boddam - I have the greatest of respect for the pilots that fly into Sumburgh

It's nice to hear that now and again, as opposed to the "F*%king Cowboys" comments that we usually get!:} :bored: ;)

[MungoP]

Thanks for those excellent photo's Shetlander... Flying in and out of Sumburgh was almost a daily occurance for a few years back in the early '90's... such a commonplace thing I didn't think to take photo's... good to see it again ( from a distance ! )...as I said earlier, must have landed there a couple of hundred times and it was never the same place twice !
As regards the comment that prompted this thread.. I have no doubt that the guys operating up around the Scottish islands very quickly become above average stick and rudder pilots... it's a tough environment. Having said that, when the freight aboard is of the self-loading variety a bit of consideration might not be out of place... many pax are a little nervous though they'd rarely admit it and steeper than usual turns close to the ground, perfectly safe as they may be, can get their pulses racing so why not give it the extra few yards and soften it up for them... when you can.

[ecj]

Acrossing abeam the lighthouse at 600 ft on a continuous curved left base approach is how I was taught on the Shorts 360. Probably holds good for Saab these days as well. Can get bumpy when the wind has an easterly component.

A mini version of the old Hong Kong approach? No chequer boards at LSI, simply good old fashioned mark one eye ball.

;)

[Seloco]

Although pax comments don't seem to be welcome on this thread for some reason, I'm going to have one more go. My main experience of "unusual" airports has been limited to Orange County (aka John Wayne Int.) and Firenza. Both of these require max energy take-offs in certain circumstances, which are outside regular pax experience. On each occasion I have done this, the captain concerned has given a brief, factual explanation of what is about to happen and why. Result: comforted customers who did not feel the urge to complain afterwards about something unusual.

I believe that passengers do appreciate relevant communication from the flightdeck - just make sure that the aircraft PA system allows it to be heard (by no means always the case....).

[Tubbs]

I wouldn't say the Pax comments are unwelcome, just pax comments that are judgemental without having the full facts. We certainly try at all times to fly in a way that does not alarm the passengers (bank angle, smooth pitch movements etc), but I think that droopy's comments stuck in the craw because he was claiming that because of his 'expert' background, his observations from the back were more valid than another non-airline slf. I would be more than happy to defend/justify/explain if the observations/questions are not phrased aggressively.

[eyeinthesky]

As another 'stick and rudder' commercial pilot, I wonder whether Droopystop is correctly understanding the concept of a 'stabilised approach'. Surely it is a situation where the aircraft is configured for landing and is in a position from which a smooth transition from flight to landing can be made. This can be achieved at 3 miles or whatever on an ILS, or on a tight circling base leg on a visual approach.

Some people place far too much store in doing it by numbers...:ooh:

[ironbutt57]

In a 767 we are required to meet the stabilized criterion by 500' aal when flying a visual pattern (downwind/base/final)..which allows about a 1.5 mile final...gee that's a nice hill there on final...nice foto's wish I got to fly like that for a change...and miss the 360 as well..."Irish Concorde":D

[exlatccatsa]

I never saw the islander make a straight in to 33. However I do remember the day the Maersk 737 did... That was spectacular!!
In my opinion the best approach to Sumburgh is left hand to 15 .. inside the hill...you have to touch down left wheel first as you're still in the turn!!

[UKpaxman]

I never saw the islander make a straight in to 33. However I do remember the day the Maersk 737 did... That was spectacular!!
In my opinion the best approach to Sumburgh is left hand to 15 .. inside the hill...you have to touch down left wheel first as you're still in the turn!!

Flamin heck - you remember that:ooh: I read about it in an old copy of the Shetland Times - was it 1975 or thereabouts? Did it really land on rw33?

When I read it I did wonder if the paper had made a mistook with the type of aircraft - if I remember it was a divert from Denmark to Faroe, was it freight or pax? Guess they waited for a windy day before they tried to depart again.

[hobie]

desperate photo but the only one I could find ....

http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/shetlands/app;jsessionid=33p49i9n4ji?service=external/SearchResults&sp=IDunrossness&sp=58991&sp=SItem

[UKpaxman]

desperate photo but the only one I could find ....

http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk/shetlands/app;jsessionid=33p49i9n4ji?service=external/SearchResults&sp=IDunrossness&sp=58991&sp=SItem

I was going to ask if anyone had a piccie - wish I'd seen that landing:ok:

[Mister Geezer]

Ah Sumburgh.... it's good for the soul! I normally end up in Sumburgh on weather diversions so I don't normally visit when the weather is at its best!

Flying in and out of Shetland is without doubt the best flying I have and will ever do! Great fun!

[shetlander]

I didnt know that there is so many people on this forum with connections to Sumburgh. It gives me a kind of buzz since Sumburgh is my local and it ist that well knowen.

By the way as regards to the 737 landing at Sumburgh it is completelly true. There is quite allot of pictures of the event, but sadly none in full colour.

Cheers,
Shetlander:cool:

[Longchop]

A visual approach is a visual approach and thats that!! Height gates and obstacle clearance based purely on the pilots view out of the window! turning at 0.5NM sounds like long finals to me!!:E

[soddim]

Surely if you roll out of the finals turn before the inside wing hits the ground and flare before the u/c reaches terra firma too firmly, the slf has nothing to complain about - or is that the problem?

[barit1]

It never hurts to watch for moving obstacles (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CHI02LA055&rpt=fa) :eek:

[bubbers44]

I loved my last few years flying a 757 into TGU Honduras. Throw the rule book out. 1200 FPM to flair with a final turn to landing about 100 feet. Fun and always an applause from the passengers. They are just happy to be there.

[exlatccatsa]

There are colour pictures of the Maersk event!
Not the mid 70's landing but the one in the early 80's, Unfortunately, they'reall "Doon Sooth" at the moment awaiting the removal truck.. I'll post them when I find them.. didn't know the new museum might be interested in them!
To Shetlander: Boy du niver kens wha's oot yunder!

[tascats]

Would this qualify as an interesting approach?

Heavy Lift (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0048465&size=L&width=1024&height=660&sok=JURER%20%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Fhzohetu%20%2F%20Yrejvpx% 20%28YFV%20%2F%20RTCO%29%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20 QRFP&photo_nr=8)

Apparently this was it turning to land on 15.

[Inverted81]

If thats for 15, he's C**ked that up slightly. looks like a nice sedate visual onto 09 (as it says below the pic).. i'm sure the residents of Toab have seen some interesting things in their time.

Watching some of the visual apps on radar looks quite hairy, turning inside Fitfull, and Compass, now THATS proper flying! Apparently the Scandinavians are some of the only guys who like to fly OVER Compass on arrival to 33 and departure from 15. Now i'd like to see that.

I've read a lot about the er hmm, Loganair crews. Whenever i deal with the guys and gals they are definitely capable with the situations up there. Last week the winds were gusting 55-60kts, and watching the groundspeed of the SF34's on app to 09 was amazing, amazing flying all :D . When it comes to operating into a field where the winds can be so strong that the ground movements have to be restricted, takes a lot of skill.
Sumburgh a sleepy hollow.... NEVER!

[exlatccatsa]

For those who have never been there, I found these pictures of the approach to 15 at Sumburgh.(google sumburgh and click on images). scroll along to the 4th and 5th along.
www.aeden.plus.com/shetland/thumbs/05.jpg
Unfortunately you can't really see the runway.. its in between the beaches.. this guy seems a bit high, the last time I flew in there the lighthouse was level, if not above us.

[shetlander]

To Shetlander: Boy du niver kens wha's oot yunder!
To Exlatccatsa:
:eek:
Boy Boy Weel i Never kent it!. So Waar ist du den?;) Weel I tak it dee wis in Shetland at Some Point den.!
lol ahh the good old Shetland accent:}
Cheers,
Shetlander:cool:

[BOAC]

Ahem! Are you asking for a Shetlands forum?:)

[shetlander]

Ahem! Are you asking for a Shetlands forum?:)
No No!

Am sorry if its the wrong place. Its just a bit of Shetland Banter. :uhoh:


Shetlander:cool:

[BOAC]

..s'ok, meant TIC! Not dissimilar to Deutsch.

[BOAC]

Time to close, I feel, since Droopy has given up, and the thread has 'wandered'.