Brize Runway

[Blakey875]

Last weekend from two different sources I was told that Brize Norton runway may have to close again for up to two years? One source said that the centreline lights were 2 metres off-centre and the other said it was because the concrete had not cured from the previous refurb.... True or not?

[goatmanni]

Bloody hope not.:eek:

[Heavy Metal!!]

They initialy had a problem with the centre line lights being off-centre while doing the resurfacing, this is why the runway works ran over by a few months.

[airborne_artist]

I understood that the contractor's workforce, who were largely from the Emerald Isle, were told they'd put the concrete down upside-down.

Some of them then tried inverting it, but were let in on the joke eventually.

[Jobza Guddun]

No worries chee-apps, we'll just bolthole the AT/AAR force to....er.......er........

Bugger. We've closed all the alternates. :ugh:

Remember this post in 2012...:E

[Always a Sapper]

Last weekend from two different sources I was told that Brize Norton runway may have to close again for up to two years? One source said that the centreline lights were 2 metres off-centre and the other said it was because the concrete had not cured from the previous refurb.... True or not?
Saying nothing ....... :suspect:

[Kengineer-130]

It needs to be re-laid anyway :mad: , I flew in there the other day, why the hell have they made it so wide but so short? :ugh:

[Wholigan]

Last weekend from two different sources I was told that Brize Norton runway may have to close again for up to two years?
Is this the single runway that makes Brize an eminently more suitable (only one in the country) transport base than any bases with more than one runway then???????

[GlosMikeP]

Oh well, it's Macrihanish then I suppose!

[glum]

How about we all relocate to Akt, and run the transport ops from there? Weather's nice this time of year, and with the Brize movers there to supplement the Akt ones, things should go brilliantly!

Civair for anyone going further West than Cyprus should also cheer up the troops going home!:p

[GlosMikeP]

You might have a pont there! Especially if the civair stops over at Gib and Faro on the way back.......

[LXGB]

Get 'em to Wattisham. Nice long-ish runway there!

Close to where lots of squadies are based too :ugh:

Might liven the place up a bit ;)


LXGB

[The Helpful Stacker]

Get 'em to Wattisham. Nice long-ish runway there!
Close to where lots of squadies are based too :ugh:
Might liven the place up a bit ;)
LXGB

Ah but you seem to have missed the joy that is the Army/RAF movements system and what they would insist on.

A/C based at RAF Wattisham but check-ins still done through Brize Norton, you know it makes sense (to a muppet).:ugh:

[Razor61]

Another enjoyable time down the road at a certain refurbished station like they did before then

[FormerFlake]

Last weekend from two different sources I was told that Brize Norton runway may have to close again for up to two years? One source said that the centreline lights were 2 metres off-centre and the other said it was because the concrete had not cured from the previous refurb.... True or not?

I can just see the meeting.

Contractor: No one told us the centreline lights need to be in the centre of the runway.
MOD: That should be obvious.
Contractor: If it's not in the contract, it does not get done. In fact you were lucky we fitted them at all.
MOD: Ok, have another £10 million, I will get that seat on the board when I retire, won't I?
Contractor: Yes, Minister.

[Army Mover]

Ah but you seem to have missed the joy that is the Army/RAF movements system and what they would insist on.
A/C based at RAF Wattisham but check-ins still done through Brize Norton, you know it makes sense (to a muppet).:ugh:
Unless it was an ops/ex flight; then they'd take them to South Cerney the day before, check them in there, then put them overnight in the worlds biggest bedroom, before busing them to Brize for erm "final processing" and then busing them to Wattisham. :E

[FL575]

Slightly off-thread, but...

I remember being at Brize for an RCDS (Royal College of Defence Studies) presentation many years ago, where an example of all RAF aircraft was expected to attend (and they had to be immaculate!). I was one of the earlier arrivals, and, standing by my ac, watched the Buccaneer approach and land in the slightly darkening grey day.

A nice smooth landing, quite nose high and bang on the centreline, and then the pilot dropped the hook. The sound effects went something like 'scrape, scrape, ping... scrape, scrape, ping...'

Some of the lights went about 30ft in the air, and the array of sparks was very impressive.

They had runway edge lighting at Laarbruch.

[airborne_artist]

They had runway edge lighting at Laarbruch.

And by the time the Bucc mate had finished, all the Brize lighting was in the 'edge.

Coat, hat etc.

[QFIhawkman]

Slightly off-thread, but...

I remember being at Brize for an RCDS (Royal College of Defence Studies) presentation many years ago, where an example of all RAF aircraft was expected to attend (and they had to be immaculate!). I was one of the earlier arrivals, and, standing by my ac, watched the Buccaneer approach and land in the slightly darkening grey day.

A nice smooth landing, quite nose high and bang on the centreline, and then the pilot dropped the hook. The sound effects went something like 'scrape, scrape, ping... scrape, scrape, ping...'

Some of the lights went about 30ft in the air, and the array of sparks was very impressive.

They had runway edge lighting at Laarbruch.

Presicely the same thing happened at Warton about a year ago. A Typhoon on finals elected to make a RHAG engagement as his nosewheel steering was suffering problems.

Typoon touched down bang on centreline 46 metres before the threshold. Hook damaged. Centreline lights destroyed. And because of the shattered hook, the (brand new) cable was written off too.

See the spring 06 (I think) Flight Safety Flyer for the full story.

[6foottanker]

Just another bloody example of the MOD's finest wasting millions of £s by poor contracts and by accepting the offer from the lowest bidder. Whenm will they learn. Hiring professional contract writers and putting out a proper tender to a proper company even though it seems to cost a bit more WILL save you money, because inevitably the contract isn't for what you want, is (partly) completed by shoddy firms and costs far more in repairs and afterthoughts than if they had done it properly in the first place.

Dear Defence Minister/CAS,
The Defence Budget is fine, just stop wasting our money on poor work and contracts. Write proper contracts and pay for quality, especially for the equipment and hardware that is supposed to last you many years.
Yours,
Miffed

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[GlosMikeP]

You're talking my language. Brings back memories of an earlier thread on the state of defence finances. Delete as appropriete: dire/bankrupt.

Funny old thing we have a meeting tomorrow to determine if we will be staying in defence at all. MOD can't afford top advice and services any longer it seems.

Runway lights - just another example. QED

[mystic_meg]

Is this the single runway that makes Brize an eminently more suitable (only one in the country) transport base than any bases with more than one runway then???????
As any member of the fairer sex will tell you, it's not about quantity it's about quality... In other words, they'd rather have a nice big long one than 2 mediocre ones.:E
More seriously, if you were referring to 'Bradenstoke International' - I don't see how they could lengthen the runway(s) to anything approaching an acceptable standard when you consider the range/payload limitations the current runways impose on the 'heavier' AT aircraft we have.

[glum]

Steam catapult?:E

[The Helpful Stacker]

Isn't Brize also ideally located in a slight 'dip' that loves to fill with fog?

[6foottanker]

That's just cos they make all the techies in Base Hanger smoke outside now...

[NutLoose]

Maybe the lights were deliberately put off centre to help co-pilots landings......and the concrete is deliberately soft for the tristar impacts....sorry soft touchdowns

Trust me it is stronger than a Tristar............ I was there and witnessed the infamous suposed Autoland when the system was not I believe functioning, what ever happened, the Tristars 80ft bounce and the subsequent short flight followed by the fuel stream pouring out of the ruptured wings as he flew it around circuit to put it down again.

We stood in Base Hangar in awe as you could see the sheared spars, spread main gear, distorted upper skins where the gear had tried to come through the top of the wing, the Lockheed Engineers sent over could not believe it either as the wing was more or less held together by the skins alone on its last circuit.

Needles to say it was judged to be a writeoff, so the MOD rebuilt it.

[Mr Wippy]

Trust me it is stronger than a Tristar............ I was there and witnessed the infamous suposed Autoland when the system was not I believe functioning, what ever happened, the Tristars 80ft bounce and the subsequent short flight followed by the fuel stream pouring out of the ruptured wings as he flew it around circuit to put it down again.

We stood in Base Hangar in awe as you could see the sheared spars, spread main gear, distorted upper skins where the gear had tried to come through the top of the wing, the Lockheed Engineers sent over could not believe it either as the wing was more or less held together by the skins alone on its last circuit.

Needles to say it was judged to be a writeoff, so the MOD rebuilt it.

typical:mad:

[Not Long Here]

How about moving the Tristar Sqn, personnel and families to Akrotiri. Instant morale boost. And they would pick the troops up from the most appropriate airfield in UK as required by the pax load.:D

[Kitbag]

How about moving the Tristar Sqn, personnel and families to Akrotiri. Instant morale boost. And they would pick the troops up from the most appropriate airfield in UK as required by the pax load.:D

'Cos they'd still make everyone travel via RAF Coach services a minimum of 200 miles to be at the airhead 6 hours before departure so you can wait around with minimal facilities for the jet to be delayed at Cyprus 'cos the things are old and tired. Any guesses how many times the jet would divert into Cyprus on the home trip from the sand pit when you want to see your nearest and dearest in UK?

[Khaine27]

Trust me it is stronger than a Tristar............ I was there and witnessed the infamous suposed Autoland when the system was not I believe functioning, what ever happened, the Tristars 80ft bounce and the subsequent short flight followed by the fuel stream pouring out of the ruptured wings as he flew it around circuit to put it down again.

What you need to realise is 216 sqn pilots arent authed to land on full autoland so therefore it stands to reason that any faults that the system may have well not be realised and left to fester and multiply until the fateful day when they decide to show off and test it...

[L1011effoh]

Guys,
the Tristar autoland accident at bzz was a long time ago. AFAIR, it was 2 Wg Cdr test pilots who didn't know the autoland system well. There was no way it was going to autoland as the conditions for A/L weren't met by plugging in the autopilots from the visual cct. The initial bounce didn't cause the damage, it was the test pilot who tried to re-land it, pushed the controls forward, the Direct Lift Control removed lots of lift from the wing without changing the attitude and caused the second heavier bounce. The pilot then applied full thrust and flew a visual cct to land, losing 8 tonnes of fuel downwind as I recall.
Because of this, 216 were not ALLOWED to autoland, after all if a Wg Cdr test pilot couldn't do it, how could ordinary line pilots do it ? It's called system knowledge and RTFM. There were certainly some times we could have used the capability, although there were some other issues involved too.
Anyway, I can confess to some 'solid' landings manually ! As I always said, it's to make sure that the wheels spin up and that aquaplaning is minimised <g>
Best wishes to all my old mates at 216 on the TriMotor.

[brit bus driver]

What you need to realise is 216 sqn pilots arent authed to land on full autoland so therefore it stands to reason that any faults that the system may have well not be realised and left to fester and multiply until the fateful day when they decide to show off and test it...

And what you clearly don't realise is....anything at all to do with the circumstances of said incident! The system is/was fine...the operator input, however....:eek:

Trouble is, everyone is now scared of autoland (and doesn't understand the difference between autoland and All Weather Ops - you can have the former without the latter), probably so much so that we'll doubtlessly get FSTA without a full Cat 3B clearance!!

[cornwallis]

I was at BZZ the other day and the standard of ATC was rubbish-two movements at the same time and the atco was flumoxed!!

[inawordavortex]

[quote=cornwallis;2993727]I was at BZZ the other day and the standard of ATC was rubbish-two movements at the same time and the atco was flumoxed!![/quote/]

hehehe......I love the ATIS delivered at warp factor three, ffs pilots here not clerk of the court. Mind you not digging too much at Brize I like it there (as a visitor) but that is way off thread so I'll get my coat.:=

[BEagle]

I've lost count of the number of times I've complained about the quality of the ATIS! Not all the time, I hasten to add, just when someone hasn't been taking the ATIS recording task seriously.

The supervisor should attempt to copy it down him/herself every time an assistant re-records the tape. It is supposed to be an information system, not a stupid speed-talking contest.

If you find it's being read too fast, get them to read it out to you at dication speed - or change the tape. If it's really bad, talk to the SFSO.

Speak fast = speak twice!

[Molesworth Hold]

ATIS, I've always taught people that when recording the ATIS, that you should imagine that you are reading a bedtime story to a backward three year old. That should give the correct pace to the transmission. My only experience of Brize ATC was being stuck there for three weeks while Lyneham's Radar was being replaced. This was many years ago but I have never seen so many miserable people in one place.

Wasn't the Tristar repaired with the wing from 4R-ULD, a Series 100 aircraft that was blown up at Colombo? Or is this just another piece of RAF folklore.

[6foottanker]

Having problems with copying Brize ATIS??? Get down to Al Udeid, there's someone who can not only talk at twice warp speed, but can also make English sound like a foreign language (God bless the spams....). They don't like it much when you tell them it's a bit too fast. Their only job in life is talking on a tape recorder, I didn't have the heart :ouch:

[L1011effoh]

Wasn't the Tristar repaired with the wing from 4R-ULD, a Series 100 aircraft that was blown up at Colombo? Or is this just another piece of RAF folklore.
Don't think so, all the 216 Sqn aircraft are -500 series with a different wing. It went to Marshalls at Cambridge for a long time.

[Wycombe]

My memory (fading, as it is 20 yrs ago) is that the aircraft was in Base Hangar, with a big permanent scaffold around it, for about 15 months.

The a/c concerned has been called various things ever since!

[glum]

Autoland systems are expensive to keep certified, and are only cleared to operate when landing at airfields with certified radio aids. Since Asi and MPA weren't capable, and they were the Sqn main effort for a long time, the cost of training crews and keeping kit certified seemed a waste of money for the once-in-a-blue-moon time you actually needed autoland...

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

Meanwhile, back on the thread, any truth in the rumours of Brize Runway re-re-surfacing required?

[The Mad Taff]

Well when I was last there the Works guys were all running around complaining! And I loved Fairford!!! Had a warm office for the first time in ages!!!:}

[clicker]

I love the ATIS delivered at warp factor three

Ever heard Lakenheath's? That's said at a gallop.

[Pontius Navigator]

Autoland systems are expensive to keep certified, and are only cleared to operate when landing at airfields with certified radio aids. Since . . . MPA weren't capable

Oh **** and the first Timmy landing there was on full autoland.:eek:

[brit bus driver]

The complete lack of understanding of the difference between autoland and all weather ops shines forth once more. You can autoland on a suitable Cat I beam; Brize has one, it says so on the plate; I've done it. You can manually land in Cat II conditions, though Autoland is obvioulsly preferred. Look at the eqpt needed for Cat II vs Cat I (ac eqpt, not airfield); think you'll find there's little difference.

and I understood that it's the ASPs at Brize, not the runway, that are due for re-surfacing. Maybe they'll get the same guys as last time resulting in aircraft having to be towed onto the stand in case it sucked up on of the lovely block pavers! Oh, and have you noticed the number of driveways in Cartoontown that have strangely similar brickwork?

[Blakey875]

When I first posted this story it was pooh poohed by some. I have heard today that RAF Lyneham will now take over the reception of deceased servicemen being repatriated from Iraq and Afghanistan for the next two years due to the closure of Brize Norton's runway...... or is this Political to take the pressure off the Oxford Coroners backlog?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Delayed in the same way that the Lyneham to Bzn move has moved back by 3 years :ok: