Worst Rosters Regarding Fatigue

[75base]

Wondered if anyone else is becoming worried by there present roster regarding fatigue and which company is the worst offender.

[411A]

Well, to be perfectly blunt about it, some rosters are more tiring than others, of course, but when you knocked on the HR door, and asked if they had any openings for the pointy end, one might ask...were you not looking for work?

In this regard, hey...as Harry Truman once said, 'If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.'

True then, true today....in spades.

[Yarpy]

were you not looking for work?

Yes, of course. But I hoped to stay until retirement and not have my health and marriage broken by aggressive working practices.

Not me, I hasten to add, but man others whose good minds and fit bodies didn't belong in the Brave New World.

It's a short term career these days. Not sure why anyone would bother when there are so many other ways to fly.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

75base
When you say worst company don't you mean worst FTL scheme allowed by the CAA of said Country???? :\

[PenTito]

To be found in a Club Med country: Spain, Italy, Greece.....

[fmgc]

Mr Angry, surley you can have a crap FTL scheme but an FTL scheme is meant to be a limit so you could work well within those limits.

Bear in mind that I am talking theoretically, I appreciate that FTL schemes are more of a target these days.

[SKI]

Excel Airways..............they are experts! be warned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[411A]

Actually, blue foot, more like 100 hours a month...now too, on some contracts.

[ray cosmic]

depends on the landings, block hours and duty hours.
Bet 411A doesn't fly 95 hours block, 170 hrs duty and 70 landings each month in an aircraft -if you want to call it like that- like the EMB145?

Perfectly legal, but slightly tiring one would say.

Worst thing - I think - is Block hours are often used for the benchmark, while all the hours one might hang around at an airport are not considered by management.

[411A]

Well, lets see, Ray.
I would normally complete 98-100 block hours/month, with an average sector of 4 hours.
However, during the first Gulf war, the carrier I was working for at the time operated 10-12 hour sectors Asia-Europe vv and, had an exemption from the local DGCA, to extend the maximum allowed monthly flying hours to 135, in agreement with ICAO, and this went on for three months.
A tad tiring, but on the other hand, the overtime sure bumped up the bank balance.

Lets face it folks.
Airlines today will get the absolute most out of flight crew, like it or not.
In reality, for the airlines, the only thing that counts is the bottom line.

[Wizofoz]

In this regard, hey...as Harry Truman once said, 'If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.'


Just a thought 411, but rather than "Get out", wouldn't a better idea be to not go to an operator with rostering unacceptable to you in the first place?And where would be the best place to enquire about were such operators might be? Perhaps a web-site dedicated to the sharing of information between colleagues perhaps?

Nice if that could happen without some opinionated dinosaur sticking his oar in.

Oh, and hows that Lion of a DC-10 operation going?

[bigflyingrob]

Maybe you should try another industry. When we were covering the exodus from Beirut we were told we were doing 50 hour shifts! Not weeks but continuous shifts. One bloke objected and was on the next plane home, never to be seen again.

[CaptainProp]

411A - You are correct, then again not....kind of... You are correct in the fact that the airlines are making most, max, out of their resources...But we KNOW it does not have to be this way...
In easyjet, as an example, we do work to the MAX, with 4-5 4 sector days. Most days are between 10-13 hr days, on top of that comes getting to and from work, like in every job. Why are we doing this? Because of p**s poor management that took p**s poor decisions over the past 24 months, leaving us in crew shortage that has cost the company £££££££!!!! So instead of doing my 75 hrs a month, to be productive and reach close to 900 hrs a year, I find myself doing stupid months with 110 hrs! Or how about 12 days leave, 3 days gone for sim and still doing 75+ hrs!!???
Then we can have a look at Virgin.... MAX 750 hrs (700?) a year... Are they making money?? YES!!! I know, difficult to compare long haul with short haul...But I think most long haul pilots fly close to 900 a year, right? Why? Because otherwise the company would not make any money? I dont think so!

Like I said, I think you are correct, but I dont think that it has to be this way or that it is too late to fight for a change in attitude...
/CP

[ray cosmic]

....and this went on for three months.
A tad tiring, but on the other hand, the overtime sure bumped up the bank balance.

Three whole months right?

Mr bigflyingrob also did an evac and extended his duties during a period of maybe a few weeks.

I'm talking about guys pushing this limit since 6 years; flying manual CatIIIa approaches in winter, 4 sector days, no autohrottle, plenty of MEL items on the aircraft and you name it.

You honestly think you are in the same boat if you worked a bit more for some months?
:hmm:

[greenhopper]

ryanair are now posting profits which equates to approx 6,000,000 per A/C
per annum with bare minimum crews per aircraft ,the diffrence it would make to have one extra crew on each aircraft would bring about huge benifits to all
and hardly show a dent in the profit margin.

[Mr Moustache]

.....flying manual CatIIIa approaches in winter,
:hmm:
Manual Cat111a approaches are not permitted in any season.
You were lucky though, I used to dream of four sector days and no autothrottle....;)