Mass Herc Flypast - 1980s?

[SkyHawk-N]

Remember the days when you could see a flypast of fifteen RAF Hercs at an airshow? I took this at an airshow in the 1980s using my Boots instamatic, I think it was Greenham Common but not too sure.
http://www.csharpprogrammer.com/pictures/c130flypast.jpg

[L J R]

Those Herc guys will do anything to fly over a meal time to get extra rates.

[wg13_dummy]

'84 was Herc year at Greenham I think. Ive got some snaps too. Mostly of totty though.

[Conan the Librarian]

Try 1985 or 1986 at the IAT, as it then was. The Hercs were working up in the week prior and I think all of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire saw them. Seems such a long, long time ago now and I don't think William Hill would offer attractive odds on it happening again.


Conan

[Two's in]

Sure it wasn't the Middle Wallop Air Show? Just going by the AAC Flags and the squaddies in the background.

[XL5]

Thread: OFF

An Interesting website you've got there Conan. :ooh: Are you the bird with the bottle or the bald chap fighting back the wave of nausea? He has an excuse though as I'd also feel unwell with that on my knee. My apologies should that happen to be Ms Conan 'letting her hair down' at the village's WI charity meet and greet.

Village life as depicted on biscuits tins: Thatched cottages and red GPO boxes replaced by flabby slappers waving bottles of cheap bubbly at OAPs. Has a certain down-market novelty value I suppose.

Thread: ON

[movadinkampa747]

Surely these hercs have a more importnat job to do today than flypast Greenham Common for some spotters who like to take photos.

[diginagain]

Then you'd have the J versus K willy-waving as to which type leads, if you manage to persuade both parties to share the same airspace...........

[Conan the Librarian]

Thread off:

XL5, it is one of a few websites that cater for different areas. This one I was aked to do to cover village events, etc. This afternoon sees another charity event to raise funds for the Macmillan cancer fund. I do hope that you are not too offended. One day, I might show you the other sites. The Air to Air shots and the corporate events have a rather different feel to them.

Sorry to have offended your sensibilities.

Thread on:

The Herk flypast may even have been in 1987. I am looking for a video clip of it that I know to exist - when I can get five minutes.

Conan

[gar170]

I can remember seeing 15 Herc's fly over to Arnhem to celebrate the anniversary of market garden this would not have been this occasion by any chance.
I never forgot it as i was sitting on the ridge of a roof at the time building bloody great view.
makes sense with the AAC flags and squaddies in the pic.

[TEEEJ]

Surely these hercs have a more importnat job to do today than flypast Greenham Common for some spotters who like to take photos.

Read the thread title! It was the 1980s!

[C130 Techie]

Of course back then we had 60+ Hercs (all Ks) which had not been hammered to death in various hot and sandy places.

Oh and loads of techies to fix them when they broke and spares etc etc.

It was a regular thing to put up a 15 ship for a para drop exercise.

Sadly those days are long gone:(

[bunta130]

It was Fairford, 18 Jul 1987.

We only flew on the Saturday, as the weather was so bad on the Sunday. A few 'interesting' emergency briefs after all the 'what happens if....?' questions. Luckily, nothing untoward happened.

[NutLoose]

Have some photos lying about somewhere of more or less all of 72 squadrons wessex in the air at once for their departure from Odiham

[spectre150]

Wasnt there something in the 70s called the JATFOR concept which involved large formations of Hercs doing para/air drop? I seem to remember them takeing off in streams from Lyneham, flying a route and then doing the drops on Salisbury Plain. I seem to have a figure of 36 in my mind but cant believe that even then we could generate such a large peercentage of the force. Anyone remember this?

[XL5]

Conan.T.L. My sensibilities not even mildly scuffed, but sense of humour triggered by the depiction of village life. Things have obviously changed since Postman Pat did his rural rounds. Now, back to those Hercs.....

[adrian mole]

Spectre, I remember it well. JATFOR (Joint Air Transport Force - Parachute Brigade) was in it's heyday in the early 70s and one of the biggest exercises was Exercise Ruby Signet in Denmark in October 1972. There were possibly even more than 36 hercs used in a single wave and the first one delivered some 2400 Paras and the following returning waves delivered well over 60 HSP/MSP. I was based at Vaerlose for 10 days ready to ground handle the aircraft if the weather prevented a drop and the big recovery phase at the end when it all had to be recovered back to UK. Fortunately no fatalaties on the drop although one Maldrop with a Ferret Armoured Car produced a new vehicle 10 ft wide and 3ft high, another ended up in the middle of a forest and yet another went into a lake! There was a MOD Movie of JATFOR made from this Exercise - possibly still in the library gathering dust...

[Truck2005]

I seem to remember an extremely large formation in the mid 70s. All bar 1 aircraft was at home, (that one u/s in Townsville, I think). The drop was in near Kiel, I think. You could not hear yourself think when they all started up and do power checks together.

176 was the only one not to make it. With all of them gone you could shout to the line to get spares, it was that quiet.

Didn't the aircraft fly a little too close to each other during the drop?

[shaky]

Adrian Mole's memory serves him well. I just dragged out my old logbook and see that I flew XV184 on Ruby Signet on 16/18th Oct '72.
My memory may not be as accurate as his but I seem to recollect that when the full formation was assembled it was nearer to 60 than 36 strong.

[Kengineer-130]

I would be surprised if we could muster a 2 ship now :( :ugh: , although even just 5 years ago I remember an 11 ship doing a para drop over soulsbury, there must have been about 800 paras lined up along the bund road fence having a pre-drop wee :} - But seeing 11 hercs in formation is a fairly impressive sight :ok:

[Chugalug2]

Adrian Mole's memory serves him well. I just dragged out my old logbook and see that I flew XV184 on Ruby Signet on 16/18th Oct '72.
My memory may not be as accurate as his but I seem to recollect that when the full formation was assembled it was nearer to 60 than 36 strong.
Ditto, shaky, XV196 ex Ruby Signet on 21Oct'72, but don't recall any details. What I do remember was the infamous and well named Ex Tense Caper! In the days of Argosies, Beverleys and Hastings (we know a song about that don't we boys and girls?), the culmination of the summer formation para/supply dropping training was said ex, a mass drop by the entire (well as close as) MRT fleet. Much synchronising of watches, variable scatter and penetration (ooh missus!) plans, the idea being to fly as three single type formations to the RV pt and then form up into a mass formation via the IP to the DZ. One year the weather remained below limits for a week as postponements came and went. On the very last possible night we once again filed into briefing. The met briefing was, unusually, given by a Gp Capt from HQASC, the metman being told he could go home. Luckily the weather had improved sufficiently "to just better than minima", so the word was GO! I think we were about No6 for TO at Colerne. The preceding a/c went off ahead of us, but before we could go the lead ship aborted further departures as they had all scattered as soon as they were airborne! As guys drifted into the bar later, it transpired that some had joined CAS and flown airways to avoid each other, someone else had headed for the nearest restricted airspace at Bath and orbited there, someone else asked "what altitude were you?", and on receiving an answer looked rather ashen and asked "were you orbiting left or right?". We never saw the Gp Capt again!

[DummyRun]

Next summer there is a plan to commererate the 25th Anniv of Op Corporate.
A small team of volunteers is working very hard, with a bit(a lot) of private cash to get a Vulcan to fly over Buck Hse, followed by SHARS,GR1s, F4s, Victors, and C-130s from every Sqn involved. I guess the Victors won't show, the Shars can't (criminal), and the Hercs? Can we pull guys back from the airlines to guest for 'The Barrows' next summer?
There has not been a 'Barrows' flypast this year and probably rightly so because the servicable frames are all deployed on ops.
P.S. JM I'll fly 2 if you fly 3;)
PPS, BUNTA C130 pm me.:ugh:

[KENNYR]

I seem to remember way back in the dim and murky past doing DZ helivac cover for a mass para drop. There were between 12 - 15 Hercs in trail at extreme low level, they then popped up to drop height and then dropped again once they delivered the dead wood out of the doors.

Very impressive sight ! !

[LXXIV]

Adrian Mole's memory serves him well. I just dragged out my old logbook and see that I flew XV184 on Ruby Signet on 16/18th Oct '72.
My memory may not be as accurate as his but I seem to recollect that when the full formation was assembled it was nearer to 60 than 36 strong.
We only had 66 Hercules in total to start with. From memory, there were 37 aircraft, with five manned spares with engines running. When we started up, 42 number three engines all started simultaneously, upon which inside fifteen minutes Lyneham disappeared in smoke. One of the MSP a/c went u/s and the two MSP's were transferred to one of the spares inside about fifteen minutes. Once they were secured, all the checks were done on the way to the DZ. Stand by for some useless information : Ruby Signet Phase One we dropped 478999lbs of stores, and on Phase Two we dropped 560423lbs, total 464 tons in old money.Those were the days! :8

[Trooper72]

You were right mate. UK JATFOR was a joint 16 Para Brigade/RAF force set up to reinforce NATO`s Northern flank should the Ruskies come trundling across BAOR as it was.

The Brigade was fully independent consisting of all 3 Para Battalions, Para Artillery (7 RHA), 63 Sqn RCT, 23 PFA, 9 Sqn Engineers plus Guards Pathfinders and an Armoured recce Group.

It was a cracking unit, until it was destroyed by the short sighted goons in the Labour Government. Nothing changes there then!

I`m not a man for numbers, I was 2 Para and just jumped out of the things but I think it was 36 A/craft of 41 Group RAF.

There was a v good training video of it operating and if anyone out there can tell me where I can get a copy of it I would be very grateful.

Cheers

[AR1]

There was also a whopping serial take-off in the early 90's - Was on TV, in fact some footage of that was used in the 'Herc' tribute vid posted recently. Cant remember the numbers involved , but it was big.
Thinking about it, the Queen might have been there, or I could be rolling events into one - the memory does that from time to time.

XV 220, spent many an hour asleep on that.

[621andy]

I remember seeing 22-23 coming low level over the severn estuary sometime in the 90s.. think they were practising for some event or other.

The noise and the sight - very impressive:ok:

[threeputt]

When I was a young ATCO, in the tower, at Lyneham in 1969, we had a mass launch, for a drop a Keevil. Despite the intervening years, I am sure that it involved 48 ac. The recovery plan was complicated to say the least.

Almost as impressive as the "Elephant Walk" at Waddington, something like 27 or so Vulcan B2's howling off into the Lincolnshire skies.

And also as impressive as the CLSP launch of 36 GR1's from Bruggen.:ok:

Happy Day's

3P

[MadsDad]

I remember driving up the Brue valley near Bruton one Saturday lunchtime, mid to late 80s. First thing that happened was a Swordfish flew overhead and (slowly) disappeared into the distance (must have been on it's way from Yeovilton to somewhere). Then about 5 minutes later 3 Hercules went overhead, low-level, about the same course and height as the stringbag and a lot faster. Then 3 more. Then 3 more.... I think there were 18 in total. I assumed they were heading for a drop on Salisbury plain - and the Swordfish pilot possibly got a bit of a surprise.

(I recall there was a big exercise on at the time, it got mentioned in the local paper after someone drove a tank through a house on a corner on a main road near here).

[Wader2]

[quote=Trooper72;3389933]I think it was 36 A/craft of 41 Group RAF./quote]

It was more likely 38 Gp. They were the tactical group which at one time also include the RAF FGR2 Phantoms.

The other group was 46 Gp that contained the shiney fleet - VC1-, Commet, Britania, Belsow etc.

Both groups were part of Air Support Command which had been spawned from Transport Command.

Well that is what I think anyway.

[haltonapp]

I am surprised there has been no mention of the infamous Ex Bold Guard, 36 ship night drop in 74? All crews were required to stay on base, first night mass brief then a 24 hour delay for weather, all crews to the messes, bar profits through the roof! Next night go, but there were a few things wrong with the plan, no one thought to close the Keil canal, some paras were drowned by ships running them over them, the position of the DZ's, proximity to the canal and the relationship between the para DZ and the stores DZ. I understand that the German General who planned this debacle commited suicide.
The plods at LA closed the access to the ramp so no inflight catering, it was five hours night LL, all we were going to get was the infamous AH box. The emergency water was drunk that night!
And we did get to do the infamous scatter plan on recovery, what a night!
Perhaps this excercise had more to do with the ending of the JATFOR concept than a penny pinching government.
Happy Days!

[621andy]

Where was the DZ then? I know the Kiel area very well as I lived there for several years.
They must've been bloody unlucky to get run over by a ship cos there's not that much traffic on the Nord-Ostsee kanal.

[vic.thorn]

I remember it well, I was one of the passengers at that time I was 21 and this would be my first excursion abroad. Landing on my arse in a turnip field in Denmark was not the most dignified way to start my travels and see the world, but it was a start. I remember the Hercs lined up at Lyneham and there appeared to be a fantastic number in one place at one time. A couple of interesting points. The DZ was full of small ponds and each pond had a rubber boat with people to help any para unfortunate enough to go in one. In fact only one person did our CO! The children ran onto the DZ as we were landing, they started battering for our ration pack sweets in exchange for pornographic magazines. Now if someone could tell me when we did the exercise in Turkey a year or two later and its name I would appreciate it. Also 2 Para (my battalion) got sent to the middle east around 73 or 4 and we did some parachuting there. so does anyone have any answers??

[vic.thorn]

In fact I believe it was the German Colonel who was in charge of keeping the canal shut. I was on that jump and although not near the water, I did land about 50 metres from some very tall trees. I believe the jump was initiated by the lights of ship in the canal as opposed to DZ lights. Anyone have any more information?

[vic.thorn]

Sorry my message before last was talking about Exercise Ruby Signet not Bold Guard which was the subject of my second message!

[green granite]

there must have been about 800 paras lined up

With this government they wouldn't be able to find enough chutes for even half that number today :(

[StopStart]

some paras were drowned by ships running them over them

the German General who planned this debacle commited suicide

Happy Days!

Clearly.... http://smileyicons.net/s/301.gif

[bythebackdoor]

With this government they wouldn't be able to find enough chutes for even half that number today.

There are plenty of chutes, Airframes are the problems.
AFPSU and PEF have chutes coming out of the ying yang.
But f I look out of my window across the pans........... Nothing.

[airborne_artist]

However, the lack of airframes means that lots of recently Para-badged lads are not para-q'd, so they couldn't be thrown out of the back anyway, so the fact that there are no airframes doesn't really matter...

[Xercules]

JATFOR was the 70s game and consisted of a 36-ship Herc formation with one aircraft 15 minutes ahead as weather ship (early elf'n'safety?). Initially the weather ship was an Andover until they were canned. The formation was sized to drop a fighting para battalion, with troops from the first 14-18 aircraft (about 800 in all) with the following dropping MSPs (L/Rvrs & Trlrs plus guns etc) and 1TN Containers with sundry stores. In all of this the 1Tn container aircraft were always the heaviest and right at the back of the formation - being heavy their drop speeds were always 5 to 10 Kts higher than the MSP ac just in front!!

This was during the days of 38 Gp and Air Support Command. 38Gp was the tactical part (in effect the rump of the old Army Co-operation force) and included the Harriers and other mudmovers plus the Hercs (and previously the Argosies etc and the the Andovers) whilst the Strat Fleet all belonged directly to ASC. Then ASC was disbanded and we all became part of Strike Command with 46 Gp forming at Upavon for all of the transport aircraft, by then VC10, Belfast and Herc.

There is a story about Freddie Yetman (then Stn Cdr LYE) and a JATFOR exercise. He was standing in Ops when the telephone rang. All the regular Ops staff were busy so Freddie answered. A very irate member of a local community somewhere in the SW proceeded to berate Freddie that one of his Hercs had just flown very low over his house.. Freddie listened politely for a moment or 2 then merely replied "In that case, Sir, I should just hang around a bit - there are another 36 behind it." and put the phone down.:D

[ancientaviator62]

vic.thorn,
it was Ex Deep Furrow and we were based at Incirlic. According to my log book we dropped you on the 25 and 26 Sep 1975 onto Highball DZ wherever that was ! Long time ago and a long way to take 38 ? Hercules.

[Wader2]

This was during the days of 38 Gp and Air Support Command. 38Gp was the tactical part (in effect the rump of the old Army Co-operation force) and included the Harriers and other mudmovers

Other mudmovers, I ask you! 6 and 54 with the mighty F4, 6x1000lb and the mighty SUU plus 3 Sparrow and a strike camera.

[collindebe]

Vic i was on duty that Night A Line aircraft sevicing doing my bit helping others to ensure you had a Herc to Jump out of . My memory of that night was being told that Paras had landed in the Canal and drowned because the Canal lights had not been extinguished . I think that was the night where they identified which Herc they jumped from and landed in the Canal, upon returning to Lyneham i had to go out and secure and lock them up.

[vic.thorn]

Thanks guys for giving me more information on the drops I did in the 70s, a real pleasure

[upgently]

I was crew on the weathership airborne over Lyneham @1000ft filming the start-up, form-up, power runs, and departure proceedures when the 36 ship plus the spare prepared for take off. Alas it is on 8mm cini film which I have no way of playing but should anybody be that interested and wish to copy it onto a different format then let me know. It was truely a sight that we will never see the likes of again, a three ship would appear to be impressive these days.