Virgin Atlantic Master thread volume 2

[JB10]

Hey guys, I have seen Virgin requirements, just wondering if anyone has got in with heavy turboprop time not sure if that counts as the website does say jet, but I did hear a rumour.

Cheers Again

[120class]

I know of plenty of guys from the RAF C130 Fleet now flying for Virgin if that answers the question?

[Aussie]

Dont they look at military time differently though?????

Aussie

[Jetdriver]

Volume one can be located Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=143500). It has a wealth of information on this company and an inordinate amount of time and effort has been made by scroggs in replying to the many questions posed. As the thread is now becoming something of a weighty tome, and to avoid the risk of losing of any part of it, it is now being continued here.

[randomair]

Chances getting into Virgin Atlantic with a 757 rating??

Heard Airbus was the prefered....

[unablereqnavperf]

You heard wrong! Harrier is the prefered type after that any fast jet after that any other type.

[randomair]

well unless the charters replace their 75's with harriers... then I'm stuffed. :}

[scroggs]

Hey guys, I have seen Virgin requirements, just wondering if anyone has got in with heavy turboprop time not sure if that counts as the website does say jet, but I did hear a rumour.
Cheers Again

Recruiting is currently suspended, so the question is moot. My own experience suggests that very few TP drivers have been recruited by Virgin unless they also have jet time. The C130 is slightly different - there aren't that many civil turboprops around of that size. Yes, I know you can quote me the L188, An12, Belfast and others, but pilots of these types aren't thick on the ground!

Virgin, like most airlines, respects the training and experience of military pilots highly, but being an ex-FJ mate is no passport to a job. Plenty have been rejected...

[SET 18]

I know that it is an unanswerable question Scroggs, but: Do you have any idea when (or even if) recruiting might be starting again?

I know that Virgin are very cautious with regard to over-recruiting in the event of any sort of downturn, but do you think that this is their reasoning this time?

[Easy Ryder]

They've stopped recruiting due to the delays of the A380.

[SET 18]

Ys, Easy, I am aware that this might be a problem.

However, they weren't recruiting specifically for this aircraft as yet, so I still wonder if their other expansion plans will mean a return to recruiting soon (ish)?

[scroggs]

They've stopped recruiting due to the delays of the A380.

Recruiting has stopped for the moment because we have enough pilots for now. The A380 wasn't due till Q1 2009; we were hardly recruiting that far ahead! You may not have noticed, but we're in the middle of a delivery programme of 25 A340-600s. As I understand it, the manning level has got a bit ahead of the requirement and so the taps have been turned off. However, 4 more A346s are due next year with no aircraft retirements, so there is likely to be some recruiting next year. I would imagine that it won't be on the scale of the past 2 years though.

[Easy Ryder]

I would imagine that it won't be on the scale of the past 2 years though.

Bugger....:\

[iBus]

Bugger....:\

Welcome to the club! :{

[Life boat]

Hi guys,

Slightly off topic....

I've seen (we've all seen them here on pprune) adds for Virgin Nigeria, recruiting for B737 and A340.

On a different forum it is being speculated that after joining Virgin Nigeria you would later be able to transfer to Virgin Atlantic. (thought I can see it happening).

Any truth to these speculations?, anyone?, Scroggs perhaps.....

Best regards, Life boat.:ok:

[scroggs]

As far as I am aware, there is no mechanism that gives Virgin Nigeria pilots a greater chance of employment by Virgin Atlantic than those from any other company, though there may be access to training records etc. which may make things a little easier. I'm not aware of any VK pilots that have made the move to VS - though that doesn't mean it hasn't happened! I have heard that there has been a number of VK FOs that have jumped ship to Far Eastern A340 operators on completion of training, but I can't attest to the truth of this.

[Megaton]

Warning: absolute rumour alert!

Chatting to a VS capt in T1 couple of weeks ago and he waunder the impression that the company would be laying off up to 40 pilots. Anyone shed any light?

[stansdead]

Ham Phisted

Hope not. i join VS one week from now.......

[scroggs]

Warning: absolute rumour alert!
Chatting to a VS capt in T1 couple of weeks ago and he waunder the impression that the company would be laying off up to 40 pilots. Anyone shed any light?
Complete bolleaux.

[teifiboy]

thanks scroggs

having recently joined and having heard a lot of these rumours circulating, it nice to hear someone say that it may not always be wise to believe all the rumours

[Riker]

Understanding that most (if not all) aircraft deliveries in the near and medium term will be A340s, what is the possibility that 747-400 slots will open up to newhires when hiring resumes? Or, is it more likely that 400 FO slots will go to A340 FOs?

Cheers

[scroggs]

There are no deliveries scehduled for anything other than the A346. There is no reason why A340 FOs would move over to the B744; in fact, quite the opposite. As a result of the numbers of pilots moving from the B744 to the A340, there are the occasional courses for new pilots on that type. Whether you get on it is something of a matter of luck - pilots with both Boeing and Airbus histories have gone to the B744, but slots are few and far between.

[scroggs]

thanks scroggs
having recently joined and having heard a lot of these rumours circulating, it nice to hear someone say that it may not always be wise to believe all the rumours

The airline has already announced that it will be resuming recruiting in 2007. It is expecting 4 new aircraft with no losses in 2007 - that means a requirement of about 80 new pilots. There are several people in training right now, with others on the way. Where on earth is the logic for laying pilots off?

[Cyprus Manoeuvre]

Hey Scroggs. Are you also able to confirm that the rumours about Virgin kissing of the now, somewhat nervous chaps currently in the holding pool as complete bollaux too? Blinking hope so. Got myself booked on a burger flipping course just in case. :confused:

[scroggs]

No, I can't. I assume that all pilots currently in the hold pool will remain there, but I would imagine that being in the hold pool does not imply any commitment on Virgin's behalf to offering you a job. I'm not trying to scaremonger, simply pointing out the fact that until you have a job offer in writing - and sometimes not even then - nothing is guaranteed by any company.

Recruiting policies change in any industry, and this one is more volatile than just about any other. What was a firm plan yesterday is just so much hot air today. A few weeks ago, the Flight Ops department at Virgin was expecting 6 A380s to turn up from 2009 (originally 2007), for another 8 or so A346s to arrive before then and possibly for some twins of some variety to arrive in the same timescale. Recruiting and training plans were made to try and accommodate what they thought the likely fleet structure would be. Then the airline's board announces that the last A346 deliveries would be slipped (though exactly what the new delivery schedule is, no-one seems to be sure), the A380 deferred to 2013, and the rumoured A330 buy is off the table. All of a sudden, the Flight Ops dept has to accommodate the 'new reality' - none of which is communicated to them in advance.

So, recruiting is on hold. Once they have a clearer picture of the manning requirements for the near-ish future, they'll decide when to reopen the taps. What that means for those of you in the hold pool, I can't say - for that you'll have to contact the company. I am not privy to the training or manning plans; I simply try to give you the story from the inside point of view in order to stop inaccurate rumours getting out of hand. Of course, anyone with a close eye on the world's aircraft markets and route developments could do the same - even from outside the company! So, get your ears to the ground and listen out for further developments. ATI, Flight International, and Pprune are all good sources of the kind of information which can help you assess what your chances of a job - in any company - are, along with the company's own recruiting website. In Virgin's case, check the recruiting page at least once a month. If you're in the pool and you've heard nothing for a good while, you should already have the appropriate contact details - use them.

Good luck to all!

[Jinkster]

How many B737NG hours required :E ?

[Dan Winterland]

Understanding that most (if not all) aircraft deliveries in the near and medium term will be A340s, what is the possibility that 747-400 slots will open up to newhires when hiring resumes? Or, is it more likely that 400 FO slots will go to A340 FOs?
Cheers

Sounds like someone who is keep to fly the big Boeing. My advice is that you should go for the lifestyle rather that the aircraft. When it comes to the job, the 'bus has the better route structure. On the 744, you spend most of your time doing one nighters on the east coast of the USA (up to six a month which is totally kn@ckering - believe me) wheras, on the A340, you fly to more interesting places with more time off between. Not to mention you get the chance to get some kip in flight.

Also, if you're spending most of your time in the cruise, one long haul aeroplane is as boring as another. It's better not to have that enormous thing between your legs which is redundant for 99% of the flight taking up valuable eating/newspaper reading space.

I was on the 744 fleet. I took voluntary redundancy after 9/11 partly because I was fed up with the lifestyle. If I had been on the 340, I would have probably stayed.

[scroggs]

Actually, the B744 fleet is increasingly flying the bucket-and-spade routes from LGW - and was scheduled to be totally LGW-based by 2009 when the A380 was due to take the few remaining B744 LHR routes. That's all slipped sideways somewhat thanks to the A380 postponement, but if you were to get on the -400 by some chance you'd get very familiar with Florida and the Caribbean! A340 drivers can get 5 or 6 East coasts a month too - or a mix of 5 or 6 India/Dubai/Lagos/East coast flights with all that that implies for screwed-up body clocks! The old truism of "B744 = USA and short trips, A340 = Far East and long trips" is now out of date.

Right now, A340 destinations are: IAD (VS21 & (from April) VS55), JFK (VS3, 9 & 25), EWR (VS1 & 17), BOS, MIA (shared with B744), LAX (VS7 & 23), CPT, JNB (to the B744 for Dec/Jan), LOS, DXB, BOM, DEL, PVG, HKG and SYD. And NRT (thank you CHI!).

Scroggs

[CarbHeatIn]

Scroggs, I don't mean to act the spotter but don't forget the delights of NRT!

[Dan Winterland]

Ahhh. The truck!

[springbok449]

Scroggs, forgive me for putting my two pence to the story but I am yet to do more than 4 trips a month since joining Virgin on the 340 and its usually 3 and most of my Bus colleagues seem to have similar rosters to me.

Regards

[scroggs]

I have 5 trips in December. This is the [edit] fourth month in 2006 I have had 5 trips. That roster includes MIA, CPTx2, DXB, and JFK. Looking through the A340 Master Roster, around 15% of lines are 5 trips. I agree, most are 4, but the increasing number of East coast destinations means that 5-trip rosters will become more common.

[edit] My 2005 roster:

January: 4 trips plus 6 sims (Command training)
February: 4 trips
March: 1 trip plus leave
April: 5 trips
May: 2 trips plus leave
June: 4 trips
July: 5 trips plus 2 sims
August: 3 trips
September: 3 trips plus leave
October: 3 trips
November: 5 trips (standby roster)
December: 5 trips

Total (excluding December) 670 flying hours. I'm not on Extra Working and I don't do overtime!

[springbok449]

Blimey, thas quite busy but at least you get to go to CPT twice...enjoy.

[Manual Reversion]

400........ six days leave, two trips

[fast cruiser]

400.......4 heavy crew Trips and 14 days off

[9 minutes to landing]

News on the gripevine is that Virgin are talking to DofE with intent to make 50-60 pilots redundant......anyone know any more at this early stage?

[scroggs]

Have a read further up the thread. This 'Galley FM' rumour has been dealt with.

Scroggs

[Shanwick Shanwick]

With over 9 years on the 744, I've never done 6 trips in a month, and can't remember the last time I did 5.

Rarely go to the Caribbean but do see a lot of Orlando and California.

[xlgboeing]

Yep, Me too,
6 years on 400 usually 4 trips these days. I do see a lot of west coast though. On the other hand I look for LHR trips and they are becoming increasingly difficult to get hold of.

Not heard the redundancy rumour before but sounds like bolloux to me

[fast cruiser]

Why would virgin make redundancies when we have just announced Mauritius and Chicago for 2007!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! utter rubbish to me..

[teifiboy]

News on the gripevine is that Virgin are talking to DofE with intent to make 50-60 pilots redundant......anyone know any more at this early stage?

Old news and thankfully as we have learned, well wide of the mark

[Count von Altibar]

Does anybody know roughly the current time to command for a new-joiner at Virgin Atlantic?

[scroggs]

Eight to nine years is what new-joiners can currently expect..

Scroggs

[SET 18]

Scroggs mate, any news as to whether recrutiment will begin again soon?

Thanks.

[747-436]

Not sure whether they have started again but someone I know has been given a date of joining in March.

Although they could have applied a long time ago before Virgin stopped recruiting.

[scroggs]

The word a month or two ago was that recruiting would re-open in March 07. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that, but it would seem to make sense. Part of the reason for the current hiatus seems to be to allow space in the training programme for the conversion and command upgrade of B744 pilots to the A340. The revised delivery schedule of the A346 has now only 2 being delivered in 2007 (to give a total of 19 A346s plus 5 A343s), which should ease the load on the training department somewhat. Though, with NBO and ORD starting by June, with probably a second HKG to come, they may find themselves short of aircraft again...!

Scroggs

[Easy Ryder]

The word a month or two ago was that recruiting would re-open in March 07.
Scroggs


RESULT!! :ok:

[Kilo-club SNA]

A bit of the current discussion but...

I have read through most(?) of the old thread and I'm missing one bit of info. I understand you get roughly 12days of a month but how long are those bits (I'm sure there are good and bad ones but...) minimum three or maybe even four at a time?

With Longhaul is there a general rythm as to when you depart and arrive back ie can you expect to get some extra time to commute on the day before or after the flight?

Very good thread!

[3wings]

Kilo-club,
all you can expect is the minimum time off, the day off pattern varies depending on the length of trip. 4 day trip normally has a minimum of 3 days off, 3 day trip normally has a minimum of 2 days off. These are minimum times off, with a 750 hr limit for the year you can normally expect more. This month 5 trips, 3 of them with 2 days off in between and I commute. No extra time is given to facilitate travel it is up to you to be there on time and suitably rested. The minimum time off between trips is not the norm, unless you are well behind on hours or there is a rostering cock-up!!

[autoscan]

Information on PPJN dated 18th Jan 2007 states that Virgin are "Currently recruiting", however, on contacting the Company I was advised that this is not in fact the case; I must continue to monitor the website for future developements.

Slightly confused I'm afraid - can anyone shed some light on the matter?

:confused:

Thanks

[scroggs]

PPJN, good as they are, are not updated by Virgin (or any other company) about the latest recruiting situation. They can only reflect what people report to them.

As you have found this thread, it really shouldn't be beyond you to read what has been written here. If you had, you would have discovered that your question had already been answered...

[stansdead]

As a new starter at VS, I can add this:

I know of someone in the hold pool who starts in March and someone starting in May. Now obviously they will be joined by others on their courses.

I also know that 2 new FO's joined in January.

However, I know not of any outside recruitment having begun. Or indeed when it may begin.

It's bluddy good once you get in though :p Good Luck.

[autoscan]

Thanks very much for the info, Stansdead.

I, like countless others I'm sure, are very keen for recruitment to recommence and even keener still to fly for VS.

Will keep watching and waiting...

Cheers now,

autoscan

[scroggs]

Autoscan, you seem to have decided not to read through the thread!? As I have said in an earlier post, recruiting is likely to restart in March. The numbers needed in '07 will be considerably less than in '05/'06, as some aircraft deliveries have been deferred. The company is in something of a period of consolidation just now, though traditionally such periods have never lasted long!

Scroggs

[scroggs]

And, as if to illustrate the point, as I was writing the above post it was decided at VS HQ that one of the A343s sublet to Virgin Nigeria would return to VS instead of to the lessor. Therefore, add one aircraft (and about 8.5 crews) to the tally for 2007!

Scroggs

[Dan Winterland]

The company is in something of a period of consolidation just now, though traditionally such periods have never lasted long!
Scroggs

I remeber one period of consolidation which went on for quite some time. It happened just after September 2001.

[coded_messages]

Joining VS soon and very excited! :D :D

Can anyone let me know in greater detail about the staff travel system, like how many tickets per year you get and who you can take with you. I also heard that in order to list you have to ring a premium number - is this correct?

Cheers

Coded

[Humbug]

Coded
You can have for VS flights:
A - Spouse/Partner
B - 10 Immediate family (not uncles/aunts)
C - 1 nominated companion (can travel unaccompanied)
D - 3 accompanied companions (must travel with you or someone from A or B)
You can also take anyone away on a VS Flight on a Z fare if you are working the trip.
You get 7 free of charge tickets (still pay taxes). Unlimited Z tickets. Various J upgrades depending on how long in the company (starts with 2).
Yes you can ring the premium number and wait an hour or you can Fax or e mail it in.
Overall a damn good system - Hope that helps. :ok:

[coded_messages]

Many thanks for the info Humbug :)

[SET 18]

Sorry Humbug, but do these benefits begin immediately, or is there a period before they kick in?

Also, could you please explain, (for the benefit of us uninitiated people) what the various fare codes mean, i.e. Z fares and J ? Thanks.

[Humbug]

6 months before they kick in I'm afraid - but most of that will be training so unless you are a commuter the wait shouldn't be too painful.
J-Upper
W-Premium
Z fares are the way VS and many airline do their ID90 standby fare equivalent. Z for zones and charged by the zone. Google 'ZED fares' for more info. Cheers
;)

[srjumbo]

Good grief! If you're thinking of joining or are about to join then your efforts should be in getting as much info as you can on the aircraft type, the training and the routes, not the staff travel because if you fail the course then no staff travel, in fact no job!

[Bad Robot]

That's a bit harsh isn't it?

The poor guy's just excited about joining a new company and a very good one at that.

I'm sure his maunuals and DVD's are smokin!


BR.

[coded_messages]

Good grief! If you're thinking of joining or are about to join then your efforts should be in getting as much info as you can on the aircraft type, the training and the routes, not the staff travel because if you fail the course then no staff travel, in fact no job!

Whooaa there boy... :)

Prep has been done and is still ongoing :) By the way what if I am already current on type :) and know many of the routes already :)

Peace :D

[scroggs]

Don't bite, CM. I'll explain all this stuff to you when we next meet. SRJ is not your most positive source of info about VS, for reaons I totally understand.

Scroggs

[Big Junglie]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of any SRJ types :rolleyes: out there I was hoping somebody would be able to point me in the direction of some pay scales for Virgin. I join the Airbus fleet within a couple of months (and really, really, really looking forward to it!:ok: ) and have followed the other pay threads through but can find no recent info. Also some of my muckers in my present company (having just been bought out) are looking at some serious maths to see whether it is worth jumping ship or not!
Any help appreciated:)

[Sgnr de L'Atlantique]

Can somebody please explain me how the VAA recruitment actually works?

I have been on the list for over 4 years now.

I have a JAA ATPL and current JAA Class I medical

I have 2200hrs A330 and 2600 Hrs A320

I am a EU citizen with right to live in the UK ( passport from just across the channel DVR-KOK)



But NEVER EVER did I receive any reply from the recruitment department. Not a negative nor a positive reply. I have updated my resume every 6 months just like they ask etc...


Can somebody please tell me whats going on? I really would like to know what is going on.

I am getting the feeling that I am being ignored because I am no UK citizen nor do I have a UK issued ATPL ( its the same but virtually impossible to obtain if not working for a UK carrier or when not living in the UK)

All info more than wellcome...

[scroggs]

There are many non-UK pilots in Virgin, though I'm pretty sure all will have converted to a UK-issued ATPL on or before joining VS. Why you haven't received a reply I can only guess is down to the sheer numbers of well-qualified people applying to Virgin. I can only suggest that you mail them at [email protected] to ask for confirmation that they have your application.

A thought: have you ever completed the online application procedure? I'm pretty sure that is now the primary (only?) way to get your application accepted. If you haven't done it, I suggest you do.

Big Junglie, I think PPJN has the current pay rates at Virgin. At worst they'll only be a few months out of date. Roughly speaking, on joining you will be on around £59k pa including variable pay.

[Big Junglie]

Thanks scroggs, Ill give PPJN a go.... all that and £59k:) All I have to do now is pass the course:D

[stansdead]

Bigjunglie,

As scroggs says, that's about right.

I joined in Nov 2006 on £44500 basic. In january 2007 this rose by 2.5%.

This year FO's get about £16 per hour in variable pay, which adds the extra £13000 or so, based on 750 hours a year.

You can also add all your allowances downroute into the mix, which are NOT included in Scroggs' total.

[norton2005]

Could anyone who currently works at virgin post on a typical roster at virgin. ive read scroggs roster for the A340, id also like to hear a typical roster on the 744.

[coded_messages]

Hi Stans :)

With regard to allowances down route do you usually get any left over?

[NAT Zulu]

CM,

Depends on how much you can drink ;)

Seriously though, the allowances are pretty generous and based on the cost of subsistance at each individual place we stay. Since the hotels we stay in are generally of a quite nice standard....the meal prices are reasonably expensive and this is what the money is worked out on.
Venture outside and you instantly reduce your outgoings whilst retaining the same income so to speak! In a year and a half with the company, I have never been short of money whilst away and have quite frequently brought some home. That includes trips where I have done all sorts of activities from skiing to skydiving!

[fast cruiser]

Norton2005
You can generally expect to do 4 to 5 trips per month on the 747, you will get very used to orlando and the caribbean but in a nutshell:-
LGW-MCO
2 days off
LGW-LAS
3 days off
LHR-JFK
2 days off
LGW-ANU
2 or 3 days off depending on trip length
MAN-MCO
The 747 fleet is spread accross LHR,LGW and MAN so if you are a commuter MAN is popular but it all depends on personal circustances.. one of the downsides of the boeing fleet is we generally have to do an extra trip each month to get the same amount of flying hours in as the airbus because our destinations tend to be closer.
hope that helps
cheers
fc

[judge.oversteer]

Go down to Crawley with your CV and and knock on the door.
Rgds

[Big Junglie]

Thanks for the info stansdead, can anyone put a £/annum figure on the downroute allowances, some of the Cpt's in my present company need to do some damage limitation if they jump ship to the RHS!! Personally, I'm happy either way:ok:

[scroggs]

Allowances average around £80 per day - or, rather, night. Most months you would probably have around 5 to 8 nights in hotels downroute (out of 15 to 19 days away from home). Therefore you can expect around £500 or so a month in allowances.

[scroggs]

Rosters were covered several times in the original Virgin thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=143500). A sample 744 roster is here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2750439&postcount=188). You'll also find more info about pay and allowances towards the end of that thread.

[easyprison]

Thanks for posting those Virgin rosters on PPRUNE, very interesting. I always held Virgin as being a lifestyle airline, but looking at those roster's I would prefer my roster of 5/3/5/4. A long haul lifestyle i.e. being away from your loved ones should be rewarded with a lot more time off at home. 2 or three days is just enough to recover from Jet lag, empty you suit case before dragging your self away again.

:cool:

[springbok449]

easyprison,

If lifestyle is what you are looking for then get away from 5/3/5/4.
Whats the good of being at home with your loved ones if you re shattered because you have to do 5 earlies in a row?

I used to do it, dont know how I ever did it, the fixed pattern roster is not flexible you cant request RDOs if you need a day off outside your pattern, you have to go to bed before your kids otherwise you go to work tired....

For sure by doing longhaul you wont be at home every night but when you are at home on average 15 days off a month on the 340 for me you will be able to spend QUALITY time with your loved ones or is it the command thats keeping you there, all of us that moved over (including skippers) no of us regret making the move.

[Danny]

Could anyone who currently works at virgin post on a typical roster at virgin. ive read scroggs roster for the A340, id also like to hear a typical roster on the 744.
Feb:
Standby all month! :bored:

[Speedbird451]

I have been an FO with BA for 2 years and am considering Virgin when recruitment resumes. A lot of info on this thread, but I miss a few critical bits of info:
1. FO take home salary: How much is it once on the line on a typical month if you contribute normally to your pension (6%) (As a guide, BA is between £3200 and £4000, depending on trips and leave). I'd be very greatful if a new FO would have time to answer this. It's a vital point because my immediate problem will be to pay my mortgage.
2. Training/Management: How is the atmosphere during initial training and with the trainers: Are they friendly or choppy ? Same for management: Is there a no blame culture or will you feel threatened if you make a mistake. (BA is very, very good with both and I would miss the feeling of security this brings)
3. CRM: How much rope do you get as a copilot ? Do Captains tend to leave you to manage most aspects of your sector or will they want you to do exactly what they want even when you're perfectly fine, thereby not letting you expand and enjoy ? Is the vast proportion of air force backgrounds driving the company towards good CRM or single seater CRM ? (BA is average on that and where a large proportion of guys have fantastic CRM, those who don't make you feel miserable for a few days. :ugh: The monitored approach makes the matter worse and the company's reluctance to address CRM means things won't change. Plus the RHS is yours for 15y min, so I won't miss this if I leave)

[demobcurious]

I'm pretty new to BA as well, but already I've heard of 3 guys who have been with the company for less than a year leaving, at least one to Virgin. All have put in their resignations since Christmas.

Reasons given are the same; 750hrs/yr vs 900 ; broadly comparable pay despite that for a new joiner ; a pension which is almost 30% better! (surely there isn't THAT big a difference?) ; a decent chance of command within a reasonable timescale.

Must have been a shock to BA's management who still seem to think that theirs is the only airline of choice for anyone after a job. Virgin does seem to be a happy company to work for though. Pity I wasn't good enough to get there ;)

[Speedbird451]

Demobcurious,

Well, I am not surprised. I believe another factor must be the relationship with Cabin Crew. For those considering BA, listen to this : on shorthaul, our cabin crew fly a different pattern to us which means that on a 3 sector day, you'll have 3 lots of crews onboard. The most you'll keep them is 2 sectors. So the CSD/Purser really is the boss down there. When coming onboard, most main crew won't say hello. Some won't even look at you if you're in the galley as they walk in. As a copilot, this can become rather frustrating as the dispatcher may also forget to shake your hand and you feel you're a nobody. Then if the captain is the same (rare, but happens, as previously described), you feel like screaming out of the DV window. Very sad indeed. In fact most people are OK but the company has let things slide the way of the cabin crew and our communities are segmented in a way that is sad to see. On long haul apparently it gets worse...
From what I understand this is much better at Virgin and I would be looking forward to their operation in that respect.
In the mean time, I have found some more info on the threads, Vol 1 about pay, and so it all seems to be very similar: Virgin now gets £45000+£12000= 57 000 + Allowances and at BA it is 45000+13000= £58000 + Allowances. I guess the difference I see on my relatively high take home is that I do a bit of draft and also don't spend all my allowances. Anyway, not a very big difference, especially when you consider SH command in 15y+ at BA ( I'll be 47!) and in 20y+ LH (I'll be 52!!!) when it is just 8y at Virgin giving me a hope for LH command at 45 if I made it reasonably soon !
Altogether, it seems like a no brainer really. Same pay, better pension, fewer hours, better atmosphere...
If anyone would have answers to my last two questions, I would be most greatful !

[stansdead]

I joined recently, so I can't really answer too many questions.

What I would say is this:

Everyone, but everyone has been nothing short of friendly.That goes for Management, trainers and crew.

Money, dunno, but it seems fair enough.

Pension. Yes, we have one and it IS better than BA's. In fact , it is MUCH better in respect that 15% of basic PLUS variable pay goes in. i.e. you put in 6%, VS put in 15% of the £57000.

750 HOURS A YEAR.Nothing is forever in aviation, but this is a REAL keeper of pilots and lifestyle. It allows people to have a quality of life that is better than BA.

Benefits seems very fair and generous. Staff travel seems straightforward and honest. Insurances and the like are pretty much identical to elsewhere.

Time to Command? Not sure if I believe it is as low as 8 years currently. Recruiting has slowed and retirement has been raised to 65. More like 12 or so I "GUESS".

All in all, I can't see anywhere better in the UK to fly. Put it this way, I never, ever applied to BA......... that tells you all you need to know, when combined with the number of applicants from Virgin to BA each year. i.e. NONE.

[Speedbird451]

Hello, Stansdead, and thanks for the swift reply. Have you had a full month's pay yet and if so you much did you take home on average ?

[stansdead]

Speedbird,

I am in a bit of a unique position, in that I have not done any flying on the line yet due to a "slight mishap" (Injury).

Without flying, took home £3k last month.

There IS more to life than just money. Virgin really is a good gig. Remember that ON TOP of any take home pay you get (which will be higher than I just mentioned), you also get CASH allowances downroute, so little need to dig into your own reserves there !

So, if the take home at BA is higher, it's only because you do 20% more work and therefore receive more allowances...... your pay is virtually no different at all.

I am looking forward to getting online and am sure that life is gonna be GRRRRRREAT!!!

Just look at how many people leave Virgin. It is virtually unheard of.

[scroggs]

Speedbird451, please keep the topic to Virgin Atlantic on this thread; as you've already discovered, there is an existing 'BA vs Virgin' (http://http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138688)thread on which the T&Cs can be directly compared. Also, all the questions you've asked have already been answered - some on only the previous page of this thread. There is the entire Mk1 version (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=143500) of this thread to go through also...

On the pension, as already stated, Virgin pay 15% on the entire 59k (2007 figures), so long as you contribute a minimum of 6%. There is a sliding, pro-rata scale below that. If you wish to pay more than 6%, I understand that there is effectively now no upper limit. Many who have been here since before pensions legislation changed pay 15%, making a total of 30% of gross pay going into the pension fund - which is entirely independent of Virgin, and is not affected by the company's fate. Investment within the fund can be left to the trustees, or, through Fundrider or similar, you can control it yourself. Some people have done very well at this!

There's a great deal more info to be found here, so get a beer and do some reading!

Scroggs

[Katanaman]

Hi,

Just wondered if someone could let me know the recruitment process and what to expect or please point me to a link that has this information. It would be great to have a head's up so I can prepare, assuming I am lucky enough to be invited for interview.

Thanks very much.

[goldcup]

Recruitment open- looks like you need a Boeing/Airbus type rating, as clicking through and getting to "Military with 2500+" gets a PFO.

Link: http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_virgin01.asp?KEY=4129872&C=681279604772&PAGESTAMP=sekvlngfgpqeyzgjrc&nexts=INIT_JOBLISTSTART&nextss=&mode=0&newQuery=yes&searchrefno=&searchlocation=0&searchpositiontype=0&searchjobgenerallist2id=0&searchjobgenerallist4id=1493&searchfulltime=0&searchtext=&formsubmit4.x=108&formsubmit4.y=14

[Speedbird451]

Hello, Guys, I thought the recuitment would resume a tiny bit later during the year. I have 2200 hours total with 1200 on A320 with BA out of Heathrow. It will take me 5 months to get to 2500+. Do you know how long they take to invite people in ? Would it be percieved as a fraud to say you have got 2500 hours when you don't but you know you'll have them by the time you sit the interview ?

[scroggs]

If you apply in February with 2200 hours and get to the interview (or at least the document checking) stage in August with 2510 hours, it would be a little bit obvious, don't you think? As most Virgin pilots have 4000+ hours on selection, I suspect the question will remain hypothetical, however.

Katanaman read through this thread and follow the link to the previous one. The information you want is contained within - and a great deal else besides. That said, I have heard a suggestion that the selection procedure is changing slightly, but I have no further information at this stage.

Scroggs

[Speedbird451]

Scroggs, yes I agree it is hypothectical and that it would seem obvious. The reason I am asking is that when I joined BA, during a casual chat with my interviewers, they told me they were in reality only interested in compliance with the requirements at documents checking. Knowing that could save a few weeks seniority to a few people. Just wondering whether Virgin are adamant on the hours at application or at documents checking... By the way, do you know how long it takes from application to interview ? Even though chances are slight, I think the best is to remain motivated..

[Torycanyon]

Speedbird 451, I have been applying/updating my details for the last 4 years.
I have 0ver 8000 hrs and 0ver 5000 hrs medium jets and a Bus rating.
Still no Sniff of an Interview yet!:ugh:

[putt for dough]

Well that is not too encouraging for the rest of us then :{

[Torycanyon]

I received a letter today from Gemma Halpin asking me to resubmit my details online. Should I read anything into this, is this a good sign? :)

The application form was a bit strange and did not really ask too much of you.
The main thing I suppose, is that you upload your CV on line.
Should I have also uploaded copies of License, Ratings, Medical etc?
As the upload box reappeared after uploading the CV.

Has Gemma taken over from Janine?

[jock]

Goldcup, from how I understand it, if you're 'military with 2500+' you can click on either the 'Airbus and/or military', or the 'Boeing and/or military' as you will fit into these categories as well!
Website's open till March I'm told....

[exvicar]

Go on Goldcup you know you want to. A red unifrom will probably suit you.:)

[Jetkopite]

Does anyone have any idea realistically what the requirements are for Virgin to be invited for an interview?
I know their website specifies min 2500 hrs but do they prefer airbus rated/ military pilots and also does a letter of recommendation from within the company help to getting and interview.

Any views with regards to their criteria will be welcome.

Jetkopite:)

[scroggs]

All the information exists on this thread and its predecessor. Please read it. Once you have done so, then ask any questions you still have.

Scroggs

[Torycanyon]

WRT my earlier post ( No 97) has anyone else received such a letter?
Am I reading too much into this?
Any advice gratefully appreciated Scroggs. Thanks. :ok:

[scroggs]

TC, I can't really give you any information. I'm not part of recruiting and I have no knowledge currently of what's going on in that part of the company. I was aware that some changes were afoot, but what they were/are/will be, I don't know.

However, I would say that if you've been asked to remake your application online there is probably a good reason for it! As I've recently suggested, I'm pretty sure that all applications have now to be made that way, and it may be helpful to the company to have older applications updated via the website. At the very least, it can't be bad news - at least they still know who and where you are!

All I can say is 'Good luck'!

Scroggs

[iBus]

Hi TC!

I didn´t receive any letter. As a matter of fact I recently send my updated CV to Janine (roughly two weeks before this online application came into play) and I haven´t received any reply. :(

I would definitely think that receiving this letter is good news (like Scroggs said: it can´t be bad news!) so all the best to you! :ok:

iBus

[IRRenewal]

Minimum age of 18
The ability to swim a minimum of 25 metres unaided.
Minimum of 2500 flying hours (If your 2500 hours include military flying, you must have at least 1000 fast jet or heavy jet hours).
JAR ops licence
Current Class A Medical

Class A medical? Is that a military thing?

[Torycanyon]

Thanks for the replies. I will keep my fingers crossed then.:)

[THE POINTY END]

TC, I received a letter from Gemma as well asking for the same thing. I had been applying for some time with the personal recommendation etc. Many, many calls to Janine got me knowhere, so I pretty much called it a day. I know the recruitment has changed a bit now and Janine is not in her previous role (info via a friend). I just completed a new application to see where it goes. I'm not sure if this is a "We're interested letter," or "if you don't update, we'll take you off our system letter." I have fewer hours than you at a little over 4000, but all boeing.

[Jetkopite]

I received the same letter from Gemma aswell,guess its a standard letter to everyone on their database.
Anyone know how many pilots will be recruited during this selection?

Jetkopite:)

[carlosair]

a lot of pilots for sure:ugh:

[scroggs]

No, not a lot. 70 or fewer, I believe.

Scroggs

[F2 Driver]

Anyone had an interview date yet?

[Torycanyon]

I had an e-mail from Gemma yesterday saying basically the same as in the letter.

Even though I was given a personal reference number after registering, I'm concerned now that my updated details did not register correctly?

Has anyone else received the same e-mail, after updating the details online and in receipt of gemma's letter?

[scroggs]

Further to some of the posts above, the current situation is this.

Paper CVs will no longer be accepted or retained. To register for consideration for interview, you must go via the Virgin Atlantic website and use the system called iGrasp (who thought that one up? :yuk: ). This will also accept updates to previously-registered CVs. Once on the database created by such registration, you will be updated from time to time by the company. I imagine that you will drop off the database if you do not regularly (6-monthly or so) review and update your profile.

It is my interpretation that anyone who has not registered this way will no longer be eligible for interview, so if you've only sent in a paper CV and you haven't yet had notification of anything further happening, go and register!

For reference, the current minimum requirements are 2500 hrs, Airbus or Boeing type rating or 1000hrs on fast jet or military heavy transport. Be aware that our requirements may change from time to time; iGrasp is intended to help us manage these changes effectively.

Scroggs

[scroggs]

Oh, by the way - anyone looking for the original 'Virgin Master Thread' won't find it at the moment - it has been removed pending the resolution of one or two issues entirely irrelevent to the subject of Virgin, but which peripherally involved that thread. It will be back as soon as I can sort out a few things.

Scroggs

[Bad Robot]

Thanks for the update Scroggs.
Just a quick question though:

Is that 2500hrs on Boeings or Airbus?
Or 2500 hrs Plus a Boeing or Airbus rating but time on type? Thanks.:ok:

BR.

[JCB 1]

scroggs - I know you have nothing personally to do with deciding the minimum experience requirements at Virgin, but can I ask for your view on the relevance that 1000hrs on fast jet has when compared to someone who, for example, has 1500hrs TT and a CRJ/EMB rating. I just don't see how 1000hrs fast jet experience is relevant in any way to 747/340 passenger ops. Of course it may be to do with the desire to have a strong ex-Mil presence in the airline.

[tired]

JCB1 - as a current VS pilot I tend to agree with your rant above about mil hours vs civvy hours.

I also agree with your remark that Scroggs has absolutely nothing to do with the setting of minimum standards required for entry to the VS recruiting system. So why not bring the subject up at your interview, I'm sure the interviewers will be happy to enlighten you.

[JCB 1]

Hi tired, my post wasn't in any way intended as a rant, I'm genuinely interested, so sorry if it appeared negative, I was just trying to 'think' my way around the requirements. I can understand the heavy transport factor, just not the fast jet thing.

I suppose I better clarify also that I'm not in the 1500hrs TT, CRJ/EMB rating bracket, and I haven't got an application in either. I understand it's a very desirable place to be though. :ok:

[scroggs]

scroggs - I know you have nothing personally to do with deciding the minimum experience requirements at Virgin...
Correct. Absolutely nothing whatsoever.
...but can I ask for your view on the relevance that 1000hrs on fast jet has when compared to someone who, for example, has 1500hrs TT and a CRJ/EMB rating?
You can ask. As I have nothing to do with the recruiting policy at Virgin, I can't give you an insight into the details of that policy. However, you might like to consider reading the requirements again:

The minimum hours requirement is 2500. Not 1000, not 1500, but 2500 - for all applicants.

The experience required is either a type rating on Boeing or Airbus equipment OR 1000 hours on miltary fast jets or heavy transport equipment.

Happier now?

To the hypothetical 1500hr CRJ pilot, go get another 1500 hours or so and some time on heavier jets, then you might be in with a shot. Be advised, though, that the average successful applicant has 4000 hours or more. Military or civil.

As for time on type, I would imagine that someone with no heavy time, but a B737 or A320 rating, would stand rather less chance than a snowball's in Hell.

Scroggs

[JCB 1]

Happy - yes, it's in my genes! Satisfied - not really, I was going to ask more, but it appears that Virgin is not the place for those with an enquiring mind. :oh:

[stansdead]

jcb1
That's the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Scroggs has made his point quite clearly. He is not involved in selection, but he has pointed out the selection criteria to you very succinctly. If you don't like it, that's not his fault !

Getting into Virgin is always going to be very competitive and it is not going to change it's policies to suit your logbook or ratings I am afraid.

That said, I got in, therefore there is hope for everyone. GOOD LUCK in your pursuit of joining us. Just don't whinge !:ok:

[expedite08]

The bottom line is, that an airline like Virgin has to ensure it gets the right type of person. Look at PPJN it comes under the heading 'Legacy'. In other words if you get there you cant go any higher really when you think about it. Your at the top of the industry in one of the top airlines.
The hours are there for a reason. They want experience and maturity. Even if you were one of these lucky ones to have been flying from 16, by the time you got your CPL and got anywhere near those sort of hours, your going to be on the upper side of your twenties, if not early thirties. Thats my opinion anyway.

They want maturity and experience, guys and girls who will stay and have a life outside of flying, house wife kids etc. Someone who is stable

[Smokie]

Scroggs,

Can I take it as read that, BAe146/ RJ100, DC9, F100, MD 80 series types, have now gone by the way side?

How much of the 2500hr (4000+) do you now need on the Boeings or Airbuses? As I know a fair few Flybe pilots have been taken on in the past with good BAe146 or CRJ time.

[Anotherflapoperator]

I've been trying without any success to get an interview with VA for about 7 years now. 6000hrs, married, kids and 3,500 hrs on BAe146. Seems a few 146 jockeys had problems a while ago and blackened the rest of us. Nevertheless, I'll keep on pestering.....

[Smokie]

That certainly does not help but feed back on a very good friend of mine who joined on the 747 in July 2005 assures me that he did not let the side down.

The only problem is, it would appear that he was the last of I46/Flybe guys to join.

Best I go get some A320 or 7 something 7 time.

[JCB 1]

stansdead - come on man, read things carefully before you start having a go!

Firstly, most of us know that scroggs is not involved in Virgin recruitment and/or the policies thereof. I therefore preempted my original question by clarifying that I knew that, read it again.

Secondly, scroggs did indeed point out the experience requirements succinctly, and if you RTFQ I never said that I didn't like it, I just wanted his educated view, (or anyone else's for that matter) on the relevance of the fast jet thing.

...it is not going to change it's policies to suit your logbook or ratings I am afraid.

GOOD LUCK in your pursuit of joining us.

What part of "I'm not in the 1500hrs TT, CRJ/EMB rating bracket, and I haven't got an application in either." do you not understand stansdead???

My second post was just a reaction to scroggs' comment of "Happier now?" which I interpreted (possibly wrongly) as sarcasm.

Guys let's get one thing straight, obviously I am not qualified to comment on whether Virgin's experience requirements are right or wrong, I was simply interested in understanding the reasons behind them. If Virgin wants to attract a certain type of recruit then their requirements will obviously reflect that, and good for them.

I have several friends at Virgin from backgrounds ranging from RAF Hawk to civvy 146, and they are a very happy bunch, unfortunately on here I seem to have rooted out the 'snappier' types.

[stansdead]

jcb1

If you have friends in VS with Hawk to 146 time, why don't you ask them as to the theories behind the fast jet thing?

You come over as a hard done by moaner.............. and I am not a snappy type really.

[scroggs]

JCB Sorry if it seemed a bit sarcastic - forgot the ;) smiley! My point was that it pays to read the requirements very carefully, and not to make assumptions. Virgin is not a place to make too frivolous an application. That said, if you're close to the minimum requirements, likely to meet them soon, and you have a suspicion that recruiting is about to increase (not the case right now), sometimes it can't hurt to jump the gun a bit. Requirements change...

As for the BAe 146 chaps, I can't comment about any individual histories. The fact is that, for the moment, those are the minimum requirements. They have been 'lower' in the past (in terms of type and hours), and that has occasionally caused problems. The fact is that this airline is longhaul only, and there is no opportunity to brush up on large-aircraft handling skills. If you don't have them when you get here, you certainly won't have them 5 years later! One or two landings a month is the norm for an FO - and you will be one for 8 to 10 years. That's why the company insists you learn your trade elsewhere, get the aircraft enthusiasm bit out of your bloodstream, and come to Virgin when lifestyle means more than how many times a day you get it up...

Scroggs

[JCB 1]

Scroggs - thanks for that, much appreciated. :ok:

Stansdead - I'm grounded enough to know that although our profession is not what it was when I started in the early 90s, it's still one of the best jobs in the world, so who am I to moan. However, I have a very enquiring mind, and I'm sure many of us have had a good laugh at some of the experience requirements listed in the ads at the back of Flight. I'm not knocking HR departments for rooting out a specific type of candidate, but sometimes it's very amusing, and I'm a sort who likes to understand why, whether it be Insurance, ZFT, lack of knowledge, etc.

With regard to Anotherflapoperator's earlier comment regarding a possible 'rogue' batch of ex-146 drivers, if one compares the flightdecks of the 340/747 and 146 they are a world apart, could this have been a factor?

[Anotherflapoperator]

Totally worlds apart, granted. The problem is that a number of ex 146 pilots do manage the transition well enough, but when a few had problems it appeared to smear the type and give the rest of us poor unfortunate souls no chance of getting anywhere. Such is life. Just a rumour from a couple of years ago though, no concrete evidence either way.

I'm only still on the 146 becuase my company (well until 0800 tomorrow it seems:bored: ) couldn't give a toss about investment or anything other than using us to offload one of their less than profitable parts. I get to live at home rather than commute to work. I should take a deep breath and try a 737 company asap if I ever want to get a chance it seems. Again, that's life. I wouldn't begrudge VS anything in not offering me an interview, it's supply and demand and they've got what a lot of us want, so good luck to anyone that does get in. I'll keep on trying though.

[G-FLYB]

But Flaps
What about that Dash command?

[JCB 1]

Yes Flaps, looks like an OK office - Q400 Flightdeck. (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0643583&size=L&width=1280&height=972&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Qr%20Univyynaq %20Pnanqn%20QUP-8%20Qnfu%208%20%28R-9%29%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=43&prev_id=0647061&next_id=0638307)

A bit of time in that and you'd be ripe for the move to Virgin.

[coolfalcon]

Dear all,

I was pleased to receive an email from Gemma stating that I should reapply so that their web data base could be updated.
From the above post replies I read that some other fellow pilots had received the same type of email.
Is that a good sign? or is it just a way of clearing up their clogged web data base with unwanted CVs?
And a last one, what's next? do we still wait until the next email ?or is there any chance of seeing some of the rays of the sunshine soon....

Thank you

[vexorg]

Why would you want to join Virgin?

This year (as many before) it is going to make less than 1% return on sales. BA is making 7-8% despite the CC strike action, pension defecit, fog, baggage breakdown and legacy costs.

The big question is if BA can do this and Virgin can't, will Virgin still be here in 2 years???? If the EU-US agreement goes ahead I cannot see Virgin surviving and why should they? Despite being a "Virginite" I despair. With their current incompetent management structure how do they propose to make money and beat off untold competition. Unfortunately I think the best advice that can be offered is to look elsewhere.

They have launched IGrasp as a recruitment tool but really they should be launching Igivea***** about the company!

Think very carefully and look at the greats of yesteryear, Dan's, Cally, Air Europe, Novair etc and ask yourself the question will Virgin still be here? Will the UK government protect it?

Vex

[mysector?]

working through the online application process you are invited to upload a CV....

Anyone have a good link for a good aviation specific template?

Thank you!

[Torycanyon]

So in response to Gemmas recent E-mail I decided to have another look at my Application, entering my reference number etc. It put me back to the original start of the form, up to and including can you swim 25 meters. On clicking the next button it told me that I had already applied for this job; which is fine but how would I update say, hours on type at a later date if it does not let me past this stage?

Would I have to reapply as if this was my very first application?
Would the original ref number given to me, stop this from happening again?
If I do not submit the refrence number, would I still be able to update my application after the cutoff date 12th March?

Scroggs, perhaps you may be able to throw some light on this.
Many Thanks.

[scroggs]

Not sure of the answer to this! I suggest you email Gemma directly with the question. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that CV updates weren't catered for when they designed the online application!

Scroggs

[coolfalcon]

very well thank you, but what is Gemma's email, since that in her email it says that it's an auto reply and that no one ever looks in that email account...or am I missing something?

[scroggs]

I assume it is the one Janine used to use: [email protected]

Scroggs

[coolfalcon]

thank you very much

[Sempre Volando]

Anyone been invited for an interview/assessment day yet?

Stansdead - I bet working on the 340 beats the 330 anyday huh!! :ok:

[Desk Bound]

Hi all - as a newbie I've been trawling this thread reading the very useful info - thanks to all.:ok:

I have submitted my electronic CV on the VS website and will be holding my breath like many others to see if I manage to hook an interview. One of my concerns though is that I'm unlikely to be available to start any new job until Aug (that's the soonest I can shed the military shackles!!).

Anyone out there know when VS would start training for the current batch of FOs they're trying to recruit? Am I likely to be out of the running if for no other reason than my availability? :\

[Bad Robot]

Some colleagues of mine who were successful at interview were put in a holding pool, some were in there for over a year. I don't know if this would still be the case now though.

BR.

[Desk Bound]

Thanks BR. I guess it will vary considerably then, depending on immediacy of the requirement, availability of sim slots, etc, etc. Best I just sit tight like everyone else and keep my fingers crossed. Like so many other things, being in the right place at the right time is essential...

[beanflicker]

Anyone had any response from Virgin regarding interview? Also whats the current interview process? Heard there was a maths test, what kind of maths test is this and any good ref's to prepare/practice? Cheers!!

[Emma Ritz]

Hi all

Trying to apply to Virgin, they have a banner ad running here right now so I presume they're recruiting - but when you follow the link, and try to submit an application under job type 'pilot' it just says there are no vacancies and thank you for your interest :{

Can anyone shed some light on the correct way to find the online application procedure?

[Easy Ryder]

I would guess, that they have enough applicants now.

[Torycanyon]

If I remember rightly, their online applications were only open for a few weeks, I think they closed on the 12th March?
Also, I still could not find a way to update details, of hours etc at a later date:confused: ?
I did send an E-mail to Gemma on the old EM Address that Janine used to have but I only got an automated reply.

[what_goes_up]

Tory

Go http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_virgin01.asp?newms=INFO75
And on the left-hand side you'll find a menu prompt "update my details".
Works fine for me :ok:

W_G_U

[Torycanyon]

W_G_U

Brilliant! thanks for that, the update function works fine.
Not too sure whether it has been available all the time though.
I notice that it's adjacent to the Job alert button which I also signed up to.
I'm sure I would have noticed it earlier?
Thanks again.:ok:

[Highlevel390]

Hello community! Has Virgin screened already? If not: when will they start? What is the procedure: do they call or write a letter? How many are going to be hired? Anyone an invitation yet? Good luck to everyone; I keep my fingers crossed...:ok:

[Jetkopite]

Hi guys

Anyone have any news with regards to Virgins recruitment ? Has anyone been invited to their selection yet? All gone very quite at the moment.

[LBA7]

Do you only get a response from Virgin if you are lucky enough to get called for interview, I have had application in for a long time, updated regularly but no response, I know there must be lots of applications but it would be nice to receive a e-mail.

[Cyprus Manoeuvre]

I’m no expert, but having reasonably recently been through the selection process (Aug 06) this is what I know.
I am lead to believe that, from a couple of months ago, all CVs and applications will be formally replied to (unlike the system that was in place when I was applying). I understand that the HR team wish to reduce the plethora of CVs they have to a manageable pile. Bear in mind it is their intention to reply, whether they have the capacity to do that is anyone’s guess. I was advised to send a letter (on posh paper) accompanying my CV that ‘bigged me up’, now that they have gone to electronic CVs and applications, that may now be unacceptable, but it may be worth a try. I still believe that getting an interview with VA is the most difficult thing so it may pay to be a bit cheeky and ‘in their face’. At least it may get you noticed and get you an interview just to get you off their backs!
The selection day consisted of an interview (reasonably painless, with lots of touchy feely HR type questions) and a verbal reasoning and numerical reasoning test. Both tests were different from anything I have experienced before in the study that I had done to prepare for them. The verbal test was reasonably straight forward; however, the numerical one was an utter nightmare. I only finished half the paper and probably got halt the questions I completed wrong. There is no tech quiz.
Not sure much stock is put on the tests (I got the job), and it’s the interview that counts. Accordingly, the trick is to get yourself invited. As far as I am aware, VA are recruiting to refill the holding pool which is intended to be about 50 pilots strong.
Hope this helps, although things may have changed a bit since I went through the mill. Very worth the hassle though, great company and you will not be disappointed.
Best of luck. :ok:

[flying_lawnmower]

Hi everyone, anyone know the type of questions asked etc in the interview for Virgin Pilots?

Any info grately received...

FL:ok:

[Cyprus Manoeuvre]

From what I remember, and in no particular order:
Why do you want to join Virgin? (No surprises there).
What’s going on in Virgin at the moment and is it different from its competitors?
How would you contribute to the profitability of the company?
Have you done anything to improve customer satisfaction in your last company (ie attempted to drop bombs more accurately etc).
Tell us about your best/worst day at work.
Do you need to be told when you have done a good job?
How do you gain job satisfaction?
How do you resolve conflict with a peer of superior?
How do you feel about being an FO for the next 8 or so years?
What are your strengths and weaknesses?
What is your greatest weakness and what have you done about it?
How would your last boss describe you?
Those are the questions that stick in my mind. Interview was lead by a senior pilot with 2 HR people asking the majority of the questions. Interview followed by an informal buffet lunch.
Good luck. :ok:

[Dan Winterland]

But mind your manners during lunch. There's as much selection there as in the interview!

[coded_messages]

The description Cyrpus gives is very accurate - I had a Course lined up in Virgin for the not too distant future. Due to various reasons I decided not to join the company. :(

What I can tell all of you who wish to join is that from what I experienced everyone I encountered at Virgin were seriously nice people. I have no doubt in my mind that they would have been a great company to work for.

[RAFAT]

I had a Course lined up in Virgin for the not too distant future. Due to various reasons I decided not to join the company.

Are you freakin' mad? Turning down one of the top airlines in the UK. :=

[coded_messages]

It appears that way! and its something I hope I wont regret doing for the rest of my life! Such a nice bunch of guys too!

[scroggs]

CM, I didn't know you'd binned it. Command at your current place was the more attractive option, I take it? Shame - good luck!

Scroggs

[RAFAT]

CM - I hope so too.

When I did some training at SFT back in '97 one of my instructors had just retired from VS, but let me tell you he was gutted to leave. He said he'd work there for free if they'd given him an extra 5 years!

Now that speaks volumes.

[The Big Easy]

Scrogg's
All good news reference the B787 in 2011. What is the plan for the next four years? Since VS deferred previous Airbus orders, will both fleets remain static in terms of numbers until 2011? With 'open skies' just around the corner, surely not!
TBE.

[Count von Altibar]

Anyone who says they'd "work for free" speaks volumes about them not the employer. My mate works for them and finds it all very dull as he's been there about nine years. As airlines go, I would reckon they are one of the best airlines to fly for in UK aviation. Can someone explain where the Heathrow slots are coming from for all the new aircraft?

[Easy Ryder]

I would hazard a guess that they may not intend to fly them all out of LHR, but instead 'point-to-point' from other airports in the UK/EU...

Just my 2p worth.... won't really know 'till 2011

[scroggs]

All good news reference the B787 in 2011. What is the plan for the next four years? Since VS deferred previous Airbus orders, will both fleets remain static in terms of numbers until 2011? With 'open skies' just around the corner, surely not!

The plan? You think Virgin has a plan?! That'll be a first!

Seriously, Virgin tends to try and stay flexible in order to exploit opportunities as they arise. Slots at Heathrow are difficult to come by - but not impossible - and new routes may well be influenced by the timing of the slots the airline acquires. There is a wish-list of destinations and routes, but this is also flexible. For example, I'm not sure how many in the airline anticipated RB's announcement of direct flights to Perth - I wouldn't be surprised if it even took Commercial by surprise!

That said, there is also something of a policy (for want of a better word) of strengthening the airline's presence on the most profitable and well-supported routes, as the build up to 6 New Yorks a day, 2 Washingtons, 2 LAs, God knows how many Orlandos (from 3 UK airports), etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see a second San Fran return, for example (there was one from LGW prior to 2002).

So, what's the plan? I don't know - I'll wait and see, like everyone else!

Scroggs

[supadupafly]

I heard on the grapevine that Virgin have recently been inviting people for interview following the brief application window that opened earlier this year. Can any fellow ppruners confirm this? I have an application in myself and am curious to knowif this is infact the case. Many Thanks.

[jock]

Supadupafly, there are interviews taking place at present for some of those who applied on-line. Successful applicants are going into the holding pool at present, potentially for a handful of conversion courses later this year. Overall numbers are small at this stage. Good luck!

[Right Way Up]

Check out http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_virgin01.asp?s=CdgRjPCvDcAIlHiXjuLkXiePaXodSz&key=5585313&c=022378875661&pagestamp=sexdfdulleoronnbbp.

Click on "quick the boss is coming" :ouch:

[Doug the Head]

I love boredom and I don't see a "I'm fatigued" column. Can I join please? ;)

[dolfdenkens]

good morning everybody,

could someone please send me a typical roster for an FO?
also if someone could tell me the normal taxrate yoy FO's have to pay in the UK that would be most helpfull.

Thank you very much!!!!


p.s. I tried the search function but didn't find anything due to a very annoying internet connection over here:ugh:

[FL470]

Don't know about the roster, but here is a link for the tax computation in the UK:

http://www.i-resign.com/uk/financialcentre/tax_calculator.asp

[carlosair]

recently i received a message from the recruiting manager. They told me that my application has not reached the shortlist for the next stage.

They have high volume of applications received, so there is no chance for individual feedback, and I have to wait for at least 12 months to re-apply.:{

[iBus]

Same here, welcome to the club! :{

Oh well, nothing to stop us from trying again in 12 months. :ooh:

[ricky hatton]

Hi All,

Has anyone got a virgin interview soon or anyone who has previously offer any advice?? How difficult are the numerical and verbal reasoning tests etc??

:)

[centerline]

Any info about the new Virgin interview format? Tech quizz, etc...
Is there a SIM assessment in the process now?

[ricky hatton]

Hi i'm trying to find out about the interview and maths and verbal reasoning tests too. When is your interview?? As far as i know there is no sim ride!

Ricky:)

[FlyingOW]

Carlos & iBus,

Hope you dont mind me asking but......just out of curiosity what are your TT, background and current type? I gather VS want about 4K TT to be competitive........not quite there yet myself and have conversion to finish.......:eek:!!!

Thanks,

OW

[iBus]

FOW, I have >4000 hours and >2000 jet, current on Airbus.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[centerline]

I have been trying to find more about the different verbal reasonning and math tests but the search function here does not give any results....
Can anyone help?
Thank you!

[carlosair]

FOW
I have more than 4500 hours TT
and more than 3000 hours on 737 with about 800 h PIC 737.

Good Luck !

[FlyingOW]

Thanks for the info, kind of puts things into perpesctive now. Could any one please shed some light as to what Virgin is typically requiring from potential candidates? Competitive hrs? Preferred type? Type of flying (LH vs SH)? Educational background? etc. Next year may well have to choose between command on A319 or RHS on A340 if currnet expansion plans go ahead.

Many thanks and best of luck to the both of you next year!

OW

[south coast]

Could someone tell me what their normal requirements are, not direct entry captains, just normal FO positions.

I checked out their website, but it said they were not recruiting at the moment and I couldnt see their requirements.

Thanks.

[Joe le Taxi]

Could someone tell me the requirements for direct entry captain,

or preferably chief pilot.

[stansdead]

South Coast,

No Direct Entry Captains. Upgrade by SENIORITY and SUITABILITY only. Currently 8 to 10 years seemingly.

Minimum requirements from website in past have been 2500 hours with solid JET experience on something larger than a BAE 146.

In reality, people with 3000,4000,5000 hours and with experience on types operated by Virgin have been rejected for various reasons.

It is very difficult to even get an interview, but once in, it's very rewarding.

[south coast]

Thanks Stansdead

Hmmmm, I am flying within the corporate world and as you can imagine the planes are all fairly small, all-be-it they are modern and new technology.

Just not heavy in weight.

Would it be correct to assume that you dont find many from non-airline background in Virgin then?

[haughtney1]

I was told the other day (by someone who knows:ok:) it helps if you were in the right squadron.......
I haven't applied, so I'm not particularly bothered:}

[eiffel]

Can anybody from Virgin help?....
How big is the holding pool at the moment?
Any courses planned in the near future? Which fleet?

[unablereqnavperf]

How long is this piece of string I'm holding?

Perhaps you should direct your question to Virgin recruiting department, there again they probably don't know either,so about this piece of string!

[Dct_Bombi]

How long is this piece of string I'm holding?

Twice the length from the middle i suspect :}

Simple really...........................................:zzz:

[unablereqnavperf]

DCT_bombi
Top post you got me!:D

[MorningGlory]

Hi all,

What's the latest? Heard that interviews are being scheduled..

Cheers,

MG. ;)

[Glassos]

On the Jeppesen/Carmen website I noticed that Virgin is using Carmen systems for their monthly bidding. I wonder if someone could share with me an overview of the general satisfaction - or lack thereof - of the system with me. I fly for Continental and we've been using Carmen for monthly bidding for about a year. It's been an unmitigated disaster for about 70% of the seniority list who've seen their monthly days off decrease dramatically under PBS vs. line bidding.

I'm not sure if it's Carmens inferior software, or Continentals staffing shortages that are causing this dissatisfaction and am interested in hearing a Virgin pilots perspective on their PBS system.

Thanks,

Glassos

[tired]

Glassos - personally, my request satisfaction has increased since the introduction of Carmen. However there are plenty of guys winging about it, especially on the Boeing fleet. I suspect what has happened is that the guys who used to buck the system under the old "manual" rosters are now finding that they can't do so. Having said that, there are plenty of wrinkles that need ironing out, although a lot of them have to do with the interface between the day-to-day Crewing system, which still runs on 1980s software, and Carmen, which only deals with Rosters - in their infinite, penny-pinching wisdom our management only bought the Carmen Rostering module, not the Crewing module.

Having just reread your post I'll now try and answer your question! My days off etc have changed very little under Carmen - if anything I'm getting 1 or 2 per month more, but the number of times I get a requested trip assigned (which I find more important than days off) has increased noticeably. However, if I read your post correctly you guys used to use the line-bidding system before Carmen, which we never did, so I don't know if our experience is directly comparable.

Hope that's of some help.
t

[Glassos]

Thanks for the reply. Prior to Carmen did you use a different vendor for PBS, or did you have a different system to build rosters?

[scroggs]

Prior to Carmen the roster was essentially hand-built.

Carmen has been in Virgin for about 3 years now, and is only now beginning to settle down. Many of the problems in the early days were due to operator inexperience and unfamiliarity with the system, and filters that were too coarse for their intended purpose. Thanks to the efforts of a few good men and women, the system is continually being updated and refined and, in general, is now producing a reasonably fair roster. That said, there's a long way to go before everyone will be either satisfied or convinced that they are not personally being victimised when a roster doesn't go their way, and much of our ground programme and leave is not yet included in Carmen's long-term planning, which makes things awkward at times. It will get there, but it's been a rocky path with much bad feeling on both sides.

If your roster people are reasonably flexible and open minded, they could try and contact Virgin's rostering department to discuss the issues at a technical level. I believe one of our pilots - an ex-Union rep - is very highly qualified on the system and may be able to advise (at commercial rates, no doubt!).

Scroggs

[MAX]

Hi Gang,

I received an email in July confirming the recruitment dept. would like to discuss things further etc. when dates became available.

Has anyone receiving this email in July had the fortune to interview yet?

MAX:cool:

[brit bus driver]

The email would have been a start......:(

[Bad Robot]

Is VA still interviewing? It seems to have gone all quiet on this front. I updated my details today through the online update facility, (hours etc,) but there was a banner saying on the summary page that:-

"Unfortunately, the job you are looking for is no longer being advertised."

It would appear that my reference number is still valid though.

Scroggs, any update at all ?

BR.

[brit bus driver]

Couple of mates have been called for interview (not me though :(). Any updates out there?

[Arrestahook]

Any news on Virgin's requirements for the coming year? All gone very quiet.

[The Big Easy]

I asked a similar question on another thread. With BA looking at europe for expansion and BMI ordering 5 x 330's, what's the big picture at VS? With open skies on the horizon can they wait until 2011 for the green jets to arrive? Surely there must be a plan for the next four years!

TBE.

[Count von Altibar]

Apparently the plan is to 'consolidate' and take it easy for a while according to one of their staff information days at a Gatwick hotel. Things not going as well as planned with open-skies arriving etc.

[Bluebaron]

Well they did make 25 mil before tax PROFIT in August, 3 x last year.

[stansdead]

It would seem that as part of VS's drive to improve return on sales, that ALL recruitment in the airline has been stopped forthwith.

I think the next 18 months or so will be very, very quiet.

But this is VS we are talking about..... it could all change today, or tomorrow.....

[Arrestahook]

Any comments Scroggs?

[stansdead]

arrestahook

The info I gave was from our Chief Exec at last weeks Staff Update held at our "BASE" in Manor Royal, Crawley.

Basically, VS have expanded rapidly in the last 5 years. We now need to consolidate and get our new routes making good money. No new routes or aircraft are planned until the 787 arrives in 3 years.

It was said that ALL recruitment in the airline was to be put on hold for now.

Things can change though, but I doubt Scroggs has any newer info than what I have said. Twice.

[Flyit Pointit Sortit]

just for info, I've been interviewed this summer and am now in the VS holding pool. Wasn't in a rush to leave current job anyway and think it's always better to be in at the start of a recruitment push rather than at the end of one. Hopefully can stay where I am for several months yet. (LHS Short Haul)!!!

[scroggs]

What Stansdead said.

The company apparently decided that its rate of expansion 2002-2006 was inappropriate as the economic storm clouds started gathering. Profit was well down from expectations (though much of that can be laid at Virgin Nigeria's door), and costs had not been contained as well as they might have been. Early this year, it was becoming clear that there were more difficult times ahead for the industry - especially at Heathrow - and that Virgin might do better to concentrate on extracting the most from its current network, rather than stretching resources on expensive expansion.

So, the current recruiting hiatus. How long will it last? Who knows! Virgin hasn't ever stood still for long, and I doubt it will this time. Officially, there will be no further expansion until the 787 arrives. Unofficially, if opportunities arise that can't be ignored, they probably won't be!

If you've read Flight this week, you'll be aware that Virgin isn't the only organisation that thinks a downturn in airline growth is imminent...

[Easy Ryder]

According to the BALPA EOC rep this past Sat no interviews 'till 2010 for positions coming up in 2011.

Woo :{

[Count von Altibar]

I think Virgin are closing the hatches and heading for periscope depth. Let's face it, there's economic uncertainty out there at the moment and it's orginating in probably their biggest market.

[The Big Easy]

Count Von Altibar I think you are correct. However I can't understand why they (da management) are not looking at other revenue streams ie. Asia or South America. With the VS core market under pressure and no game plan, there must be trouble ahead! Better stick with my current outfit.
TBE.

[Captain Galactic]

The guys have just stated the game plan, to consolidate existing routes and maximise profitability from them. Very sensible in my opinion. To expand with a downturn around the corner would be crazy. Unless you have a stockpile of cash like that horrible irish blue and white short-haul airline.....

[scroggs]

Spending cash on new stations/routes/aircraft which will not produce a return for up to 3 years is not sensible in the longhaul market just now. The cost of credit, fuel and support facilities mean that consolidation of existing routes (many of which are very young) is the way ahead for now, in Virgin's view. While there are interesting times ahead at Heathrow, the somewhat wobbly state of western economies currently isn't a good foundation for much in the way of experimental entrepreneurism!

However, Virgin very recently announced that it is looking at up to 12 new aircraft to replace older 744s and enhance its Gatwick operation from 2012. These may be B748s, A380s or even a mix of the two. There are several projects 'bubbling under' which just need a slightly more benevolent economic environment to be let loose. Now is not the time, but Virgin is far from out of ideas!

[StopStart]

I'll stick with Queen Betty's flying club a bit longer then scroggs :)
PS. Your absence was noted at the bash ;)

[Doug the Head]

Perhaps VS could buy some of the GB Airways LHR slots from EZY? :ok:

[exvicar]

We may have had a slightly larger cash pile if we didn't insist on blowing it all in Nigeria.

[MrBernoulli]

Yes ............ Nigeria ................. hmmmmmmmmm .............. which flipping idiot thought that spending money there would be a good idea. Buffoons.

[ATC83]

Hi Guys
Sent an email to virgin a couple weeks ago just asking about recruitment etc even though i'm not up to the 2500hrs yet....

3 days later the phone went with someone from recruitment on the end of it....Firstly thanking me for the email and secondly telling me that they are looking at possibly opening the recruitment again in 6 months (which should work out perfect for me with regard to hours)....:ok:

So there you have it...from the horses mouth!
The poor crewing guys at my existing company must hate me by now... keep hassling them to change my standbys into duties for hours!!! "I love flying for your airline, making your crewing job easier for you".... Kissing arse gets you anywhere :E

ATC

[EGKK.]

i know this question has probably been asked a mill times but has anyone managed to get offerd a job with the minimum 2500hrs and non type rated nor have a similar type...? :}

[stansdead]

EGKK

Not many in recent times I am afraid.

The majority of recent recruits have 4000 plus hours, experience on type or similar types. Many also held airline jet Commands.

Failing that they are ex military, fast jet or transport command.

The competition to join us is quite extraordinary, it really is, I can promise you that.

[northern boy]

Its a great airline to work for, outside of usual gripes, but be warned, its a LONG time to command. Been here 8 years, anything up to 5 or 6 more to wait under current plans..
It could all change next week.

[scroggs]

ATC83 There will be no large-scale recruiting for the forseeable future. With no new aircraft or routes planeed until 2011, and the airline pretty much up to establishment, there is no need for new people other than as attrition replacements. As pilots tend not to leave Virgin until they have to, and retirement has (as for every UK airline) gone back 5 years, don't expect much movement there.

As for minimum qualifications, yes, the airline will look at you with 2500 hours as that is the stated minimum. However, the vast majority of applicants have a good deal more than that, and therefore rather more than 2500 is the norm at entry. While it's not impossible to be accepted with the minimum hours, the competition (and my experience) suggests that it's very unusual, so don't get your hopes up. As Stan says, this airline is heavily oversubscribed by experienced pilots and has the luxury of being able to be very choosy about who it employs. That said, I got in (with 7000 or so hours, and 15 years' command experience)!

Command will be a long time for any new joiners now. Recent commands have been after 8 to 9 years in the RHS; the hiatus in expansion couples with the raised retirement age means that this will inevitably move towards 12 years or more. This is hardly surprising; as the airline matures and its expansion rate slows, its longhaul-only ethos will naturally mean a long time to command. Fortunately, the pay scales for senior FOs are pretty good!

[northern boy]

Should have mentioned the pay. Scroggs is correct, a senior FO with flight pay and allowances gets about as much as a captain in a smaller airline. Have looked elsewhere over the years and never found anything else I fancied doing or that could match the (hard won) T & C's that we enjoy. Would be nice to sit on the other side of the office one day though...

[ATC83]

haha ok cheers for the info guys. If they do open it up for one or two places next year then I suppose I can throw an application in and see what happens...

I know you guys put loads of info on before about pay etc etc but just wondering if there has been any changes since your last posts on pay?? If so what would a year one FO pick up after tax these days?

Oh and Northernboy, I see your in manchester...how do you find the commute??

[northern boy]

Hi ATC

I take home between 3500-4000 after deductions and pension contributions (6% from me 15% from Virgin) depending on the sort of month I'm having. Allowances are on top of that paid in green downroute. This is the source of some controversy with the taxman at the mo on an industry wide basis.

The pay is less than my equivilant at BA but I work a maximum 750 hrs per year and they do 900, so pro rata its probably about the same or maybe a bit less.
Not too short of money and certainly don't want to fly any more than I do. Plenty of day off working if you want it, crewing are never off the phone sometimes. Average 4 or 5 trips per month. Good outfit, as sociable as you want to make it. I tend to keep myself to myself but thats just me.

Commuting, well I'd rather not do it but I like living where I do so I put up with it. The best fleet for commuting is the Airbus as they get more late starts and longer trips.This may well change as new aircraft and routes come along in the fullness of time. I'm on the Boeing so lots of early Gatwicks and lots of time in the Travelodge. However, we do Manchester trips (Orlando, BGI, UVF) and you can now state a preference for the airport you want to operate out of (LHR/LGW/MAN). One or two of these a month makes a BIG difference.

Living on the West coast mainline, I make frequent use of the train, In fact I always travel home by rail as it is more flexible at the sort of times I need it, especially from LGW. Typically I'll either fly down on the day or train the day before and a night in the dreaded Travelodge. We get a deal on the trains as they are run by Virgin, although advance booking on the website can be just as effective. They are getting busier. If in uniform and at the weekend, the odd upgrade is available, but don't push it. Advance airfares are available one way from both BA and BMI. In fact its hardly worth using ID90 shuttles any more unless you live in Scotland/Ireland or abroad. Standby usually works out Ok since you can elect to be contacted on a day off. Works fine for me.
Typical door to door times are 2 1/2 hrs LHR 3 1/2 hrs LGW by air or train which aint bad.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong it falls apart in a spectacular fashion although I have never caused a flight to leave late yet. No worse than being stuck on the M25 I suppose. Crewing tend to be ok about it providing you don't do it too often.

Hope this is of use.

[ATC83]

Northern Boy

Thanks very much, very informative cheers...the pay is quite an issue to me as I was one of the wings cadets so have a heavy chunk taken out of salary to pay bonds etc. Getting raped by HSBC at the moment!:sad:

Definately keen on joining when possible, will keep an eye out on recruitment!
Thanks again guys

ATC

[scroggs]

The current economic upsets (both in banking and oil) afflicting both the USA and Europe are likely to fairly quickly impact on discretionary leisure and business travel in those economic regions, and this will have a direct effect on all airlines in these areas. As a result, Virgin's battening down of the hatches is looking particularly prescient, and is looking unlikely to be relaxed in less than the pre-announced 18 months. It's highly likely that other European and US longhaul airlines will take similarly cautious steps in the near future. Accordingly, I advise all those hoping to leave the loco/charter lines for Virgin/BA in the near future to perhaps extend their horizons to the East, or think a little longer term!

[stansdead]

Scroggs

Indeed, things look so bad in the banking sector that Virgin just bought the worst one going today.

D'oh !!!!:uhoh:

[flyingbug]

Hello,

does anyone have any info re VA recruitment plans for the next 1 - 2 years please? How is their recruitment undertaken, is it an open exercise via email and CVs, or a recommendation system? Are there interviews/ sim rides?
Thank you,
FB

[scroggs]

See post 222 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3695639&postcount=222) above re recruitment plans.

Not that you'll need it anytime soon, but the rest of the information you need is contained in this thread. Grab a coffee/beer/wine and read thoroughly at your leisure.

[EXEZY]

Why the pessimism? I don't think you can class BA in the same category as VS, BA have a bit more strengh in depth.

[flyingbug]

Thank you Scroggs, should have checked the threads more thoroughly...
FB:)

[woof]

Hi guys,

Thanks for providing so much info. Apologies if this is one that slipped through the next.

I appreciate that recruiting is very much on the back burner for the next year or so, but does anyone know the current size of the hold pool? This perhaps could give the smallest of hints as to when Virgin may condsider topping up said pool.

Happy New Year

Woof

[scroggs]

As far as I'm aware, the hold pool is effectively full. However, I'm sure that some of those in it will need to move on and places will become available. I imagine that the company will let it drop to a certain level (half full?) before it considers it worth organising further interviews. Who knows when that will be. With fuel prices, Open Skies, T5, strikes (now cancelled) and who-knows-what-else, the business outlook must be pretty tight right now. I imagine that recruiting is probably a low priority!

[The Big Easy]

Scroggs,

Thanks for the info. I've been hoping for a call from VS for a couple of years but have finally given up. Couple of mates on the inside (both fleets) seem to think it's not the place to be anymore and are seriously looking else where. Never thought I would here that from a VS pilot. Dodgy management, time to command and some IT type positioning seems to be the main concerns.

Seems I have a great future behind me!

TBE.

[4engines4longhaul]

I would have to say that is a very negative view. Yep we have management issues like every other airline, and yes the -400 has a few issues regarding positioning in the carribean. Time to command is also becoming an issue for many, but you have to remember that a year 10 F/O is on about 65k per year, average days off per month is 16 on the bus and 15 on the Boeing, 15% pension contribution from the co. in return for 6% from the employee, PHI, LOL, private health care, good staff travel etc. Once you do get a command, year one is 100k approx rising to 150k at year 14 and a TRE/IRE so things are not that bad
On a pilot workplace of 800 pilots 3 resigned before retirement age in the last 12 months due to various reasons so turnover is low in comparison to most carriers.
We are also supported by a very effective BALPA company council with membership around 94% who are very good at maintaining our hard fought renumeration and benefits.

[teamax]

Is that why you are losing money?

[NAT Zulu]

....no, it's not. That would be the Nigerian connection!

[scroggs]

Is that why you are losing money?

You obviously know something we in the company don't! While Virgin's pretax profit in 06/07 was reasonable, it was certainly reduced significantly by Virgin Nigeria's losses. However, the company remained in profit even after VK's losses - and tax - were taken into account. Not great profit, admittedly, but profit nevertheless. The 07/08 figures won't be announced for some months yet but, despite fuel prices and the disruption caused by the putative CC strike, the results are likely to be significantly better than last year.

[teamax]

Excellent news, must be crew room nonsense again. Goodluck for the future.

[stansdead]

Scroggs,

Well, we hope the figures will be better. Unless VK is going to the Dogs.

[scroggs]

As Virgin Atlantic has recently underwritten an $811m order for Embraer aircraft for VK, I very much doubt our bean counters think that VK is at risk. You and I may be less sanguine, but we don't have the Nigerian Government's input. If corruption and over-ambition can be overcome, VK should make a very healthy profit as the major airline in arguably the second-wealthiest economy in Africa. And if they profit, we profit!

[MorningGlory]

Well I'm reasonably new in VS and I hope things do get better, as I left a pretty good position to join.. ;)

[Count von Altibar]

Does anybody have a rough idea of the estimated time to command what with the new B787 delays etc.?

[stansdead]

Count Von Altibar,

We are not one of the first delivery customers for the 787, therefore it seems that the current delays will not affect VS too badly.

That word came from our Aircraft Integration Manager a few days ago. However, that missive came before the further delays announced earlier this week.

On the Command front, it all depends on whether the 787's are for expansion, or replacements of existing airframes.

Timings wise, I would expect 10 to 12 years (for any new joiners) from now if the airframes are for expansion. 15 or more if the airframes are replacements.

That is only my opinion, but I think it's probably quite accurate.

Perhaps Scroggs can add his experience to the mix on this one?

[4engines4longhaul]

I would agree with above. There are likely to be 6 or so new commands this year which will go to guys who have been here about 8-9 years. For someone joining now i would tell them to plan on 12-15 years.
That is a long time compared to EZY and some charter carriers but should be taken in context of lifestyle and F/O pay and conditions, and is still a little less than a long haul command at BA currently.
So, if you are a 32 year old pilot joining now, command at 47, then 18 years in the left seat if you choose to work to 65. Overall, not bad but knowing VS, things will prob pick up again as they never stand still for long.

[747 Downind]

A strange question, have asked some ex-Virgin colleagues, wondering whether there is any SOPs reagrding hand flying.. are there any rigid SOPs similar to what I have heard from ex-Emirates colleagues... and roughly how many PF sectors a month do u guys get bearing in mind ur heavy crew?

Thanks in advance

[stansdead]

747,

The answer to your question is that hand flying is encouraged, to a certain degree.

No one will criticise you for wanting to keep your skills together by hand flying, but there are times and places for such things.

A good rule of thumb to start with is perhaps not to overload the PNF. If for example you have just come back into the London TMA after a 2 man, night Chicago it may be better to not hand fly from "top of drop".

In practice, most guys hand fly a bit of the departure and will disconnect the AP and ATHR (if they feel like it), once they are reasonably assured of a landing ahead. After all, a hand flown go around in an A340-600 is rather hurried. I have done one...

So, in essence: No dictator SOP's to say what you can and can't do. Only common sense and airmanship.

And not all our flights are heavy crew. In fact, many of them aren't.

Landings a month? Depends, but I seem to get about 2 or 3.

[747 Downind]

Many thanks stanstead..

Just what I wanted to hear.. good to see common sense still prevails in many carriers.. as you say picking your time is of the upmost importance.. I must confess still havent flown raw data all the way into LGW even when it's quiet.. CDA's having a lot to do with it along with the other points you made, but nice to see there are no draconian SOPs regarding flight director and autopilot use.. Happy Flying

[stansdead]

Most people would always leave the Flight Director on. Me especially, because I am really sh1t.:)