View Full Version : Carriers and Main Gate
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 18:20
According to one of my contacts ;) , the carriers failed the main gate test last Wednesday, so, yet again they are postponed/off/whatever. That did come from a reliable source.
Al
QFIhawkman
23rd Oct 2006, 18:24
Erm....
Forgive me for being a biff. But can you explain just what on earth you are on about old chap? Have the scuffers stopped the carriers for not having the right pass or something?
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 18:28
Main gate was an assessment carried out last week on the carriers, and for whatever reason, they failed it.
Navaleye
23rd Oct 2006, 18:28
I thought it was due this week?
Likewise, what on earth are you talking about alex? Who are the carriers? What is postponed/off? Are you just wasting our time with this thread?
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 18:32
Lets see... maybe aircraft carriers?? Navaleye seems to understand doesn't he? And why would I waste my time wasting yours? Aircraft carriers are quite an important subject in the world of dark blue aviation, seen as this forum isn't run completely by the light blues (yet).
Mr C Hinecap
23rd Oct 2006, 18:33
I understand his thread. He is just using some of that current business speak. But I understand.
Wish I didn't :(
Talking Radalt
23rd Oct 2006, 18:39
Are you sure this isn't a spilling mistoke and it's the barriers that failed the main gate test? :}
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 18:41
I will hove you knee I don't meek spilling mistokes.
Navaleye
23rd Oct 2006, 18:48
Regarding Main Gate, the formal submission is due this Wednesday (last I heard). It will then go for review and scrutiny. Richard Beedal estimates completion in February to coincide with the PA2 schedule in France. I would say those estimates are as accurate as you can get at this stage. I'm still hearing positive noises.
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 19:00
I take it all back if I'm wrong, but it was one of the Thales directors that told me.
Regards
Navaleye
23rd Oct 2006, 19:23
Not saying you are wrong Alex, I was just repeating the last piece of information that I heard. I hope you are wong by the way! :}
alex_holbrook
23rd Oct 2006, 19:27
To be honest, I hope I'm wrong too. :rolleyes:
vecvechookattack
23rd Oct 2006, 22:19
Im not sure that you can "fail" Main gate....more like "Not achieve". If the project hasn't achieved Main gate thats not unusual and to be honest its a good thing. We dont want it unless it fulfills the requirement.
Not many projects achieve main gate on time and in budget. The last project to pass through main gate on time ans within budget was when the military asked for someting long and sharp and got a sword.
Talking Radalt
23rd Oct 2006, 22:20
it was one of the Thales directors that told me.
Was he a thenior thales director? (who thells thee-thells on the thee thaw) :)
BEagle
24th Oct 2006, 07:09
"I'm not sure that you can "fail" Main Gate....more like "Not achieve"..."
Pure Sir Humphrey!
Gainesy
24th Oct 2006, 07:26
The last project to pass through main gate on time ans within budget was when the military asked for someting long and sharp and got a sword.
But the requirement was for a spear...
anotherthing
24th Oct 2006, 07:55
Richard Beedal estimates completion in February to coincide
Of course the Carriers failing the Main Gate Test could just be some TV stunt or japery.....
"You'd better watch out... Beedals about" (sung tunelessly to some cheap music
Well you canīt actually fail it as such, except if thatīs what the politicians want. More a case of having to go back for a resit..... :hmm:
GlosMikeP
24th Oct 2006, 08:16
I wonder if its a case of, we have a design that fits the functional and non-functional requirements, but the cost ismore than MOD can afford.
Lots of that around!
Sunk at Narvik
24th Oct 2006, 08:21
Its possible that the review being carried out by Sir John Parker has thrown up some concerns?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/09/18/cnavy18.xml
Navaleye
24th Oct 2006, 08:51
It can't have failed main gate submission since it does not get submitted until this Thursday.
Google define: Main Gate =
"An exacting approval hurdle, between the Assessment and Demonstration Phases of the CADMID procurement phases. A Business Case at Main Gate should recommend a single technical and procurement option. Risk must have been reduced to the extent that the Capability Manager and IPT Leader can, with a high degree of confidence, undertake to deliver the project to narrowly defined performance, cost (whole-life and procurement) and time parameters."
From the MoD's Acquisition Management System (AMS) website
Wannabe1974
24th Oct 2006, 15:12
Am I alone in wondering why on earth all this is taking so long? it struck me the other day that Kennedy ordered NASA to go to the Moon in '62 and they were there in '69. The SDR was the initial document which mentioned the intention to acquire 2 new carriers and that was published 9 years ago! We haven't even cut any metal yet!!
I may be a bit of a simpleton, but it really can't be that difficult? Or is it as I suspect that the army of consultants, contractors and time-wasters are taking a few too many expenses funded lunches?
If someone can put me right I would be most grateful....
Not_a_boffin
24th Oct 2006, 15:37
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2833695&postcount=657
Try this for starters. Less a problem with expenses paid lunches, but with ability of MoD to make decisions and ability of the ACA to interpret requirements and make accurate cost estimates.
NoseGunner
24th Oct 2006, 16:03
If its true then thank goodness. Get rid of the carriers and buy more Typhoons.
Wannabe1974
24th Oct 2006, 16:11
If its true then thank goodness. Get rid of the carriers and buy more Typhoons.
I think the RAF have won that battle once too often in the 20th century. What do we need more Typhoons for? They're already about as in-date as the cheese at the back of my fridge...
NoseGunner
24th Oct 2006, 16:19
Thats one. :)
Sunk at Narvik
24th Oct 2006, 19:49
Bah!
<drops monicle into whisky tumbler>
:*
Tourist
24th Oct 2006, 19:51
Cannot believe somebody bit that.
the funky munky
24th Oct 2006, 21:51
Now that Larry Grayson has leant his full weight to the program I get the feeling that CVF will not fail at all, but will meet nay even surpass the trivial Main Gate procedure. It will just be a rubber stamp scrutineering hatchet job as the Defence industry has far too much at stake for it to fail.
Believe me I have been through the torturous process with the Lynx replacement.
This is a single source procurement with absolutely no danger of failure.
GlosMikeP
24th Oct 2006, 22:53
Believe me I have been through the torturous process with the Lynx replacement.
This is a single source procurement with absolutely no danger of failure.
Believe me I've been through more procurements than I like to count.
There is every possibility of a horrible and highly embarrassing failure.
MOD wants the carriers for a low price and no risk; the contractor wants to deliver at a price it can make a profit from, at acceptable risk. You'd think these positions are compatible, but I wonder if in this case they are even close.
The change log will already be open and waiting for MOD's business.